1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. Gallop has been asking 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: the world's citizens the question how's your life going since 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, and some concerning trends are starting 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: to emerge. People are reporting more stress, more sadness, more 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: physical pain, more worry, and more anger than at any 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: other point in the history of the Gallop's World. Pole 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: tracking here to talk about these emerging trends. I'm really 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest and my good friend who 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: I've worked with for many years, John Clifton, the CEO 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: of Gallop. His new book blind Spot, The Rise of 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: Global Unhappiness and How Leaders Missed It is out now 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: and frankly, which leaders would read it because they are 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: missing it. John, Welcome and thank you for joining me 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: on NEWTS World. Lester Speaker, thank you for having me. 15 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: I thought we started with your own background with Gallop. 16 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: You took over the role of CEO from your father, 17 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: Jim Clifton, who you know I worked with for many 18 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: years in June of two twenty two. You have a 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: deep history of working in the company, which was founded 20 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: originally by George Gallop as the American Institute of Public 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: Opinion in nineteen thirty five. He was a tremendous pioneer 22 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: and worked very closely, especially with General Motors and with 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: Alfred Sloan in developing what we think of today's polling. 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: And it's an amazing organization, probably as the largest by 25 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: huge margin, system of data on public opinion of any 26 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: company in the entire world. Today. You employ more than 27 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: two thousand professionals and thirty offices around the world, providing 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: analytics and advice to help leaders and organizations solve many 29 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: of their most pressing problems. You've been with Gallop since 30 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. You served as the firm's global 31 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: man managing partner for five years, advising global leaders and 32 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: how their organizations and countries can thrive using analytics based insights. 33 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: You got your bachelor's degree in political science and history 34 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 1: from the University of Michigan and a doctorate international law 35 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: from the University of Nebraska. He rewarded an honorary degree 36 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: in humane letters from Midland University. And let me just 37 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: say that your dad was the firm CEO since nineteen 38 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: eighty eight and now he is the chairman of the board. 39 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: But you're now really running the system. You just published 40 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: blind spot the rise of global unhappiness and how leaders 41 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: missed it. What inspired you to write the book? So 42 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: for fifteen years we have been tracking something very different 43 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: than what leaders are used to. So leaders often followed 44 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: traditional economic indicators like unemployment, they tracked GDP per capita, 45 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: but they rarely track how people feel, and we believe 46 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: that's a massive problem. So we started asking people fifteen 47 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: years ago and over one hundred and forty countries every 48 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: single year, do you experience a lot of stress in 49 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: your life? Do you have a lot of sadness in 50 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: your life? How about anger, physical pain, or worry. In 51 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: about our first five to six years of tracking, we 52 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: found that there wasn't much of a change, and we 53 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: kind of confirmed conventional wisdom. So countries in the Middle 54 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: least expressed the most negative emotions, places like Iraq, places 55 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: like Afghanistan. But over the past ten years we've seen 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: a massive increase in all these indicators. And what inspired 57 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: us to do this book now is because when we 58 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: first warned the world about the global rise of unhappiness, 59 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: we did so in twenty twenty, and when we told 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 1: people that there's been rising stress, sadness, physical pain, worry, etc. 61 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: A lot of leaders and a lot of the media 62 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: came back to us and they said, well, g Gallup, 63 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: why is that a surprise? I mean, all of us 64 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: are collectively suffering from a global pandemic, so why is 65 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: it a surprise that there's more misery in the world today? 66 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: And our response to them was, well, if you think 67 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: it's just COVID, then you haven't been paying attention, because 68 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: this rise of unhappiness has been coming for a decade 69 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: and that's what's got us really concerned and why we 70 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: felt they need to put a book out on it. 71 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: You all had made the decision to have a one 72 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: hundred year initiative spanning over one hundred and fifty countries, 73 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: and no place else has ever institutionally done anything on 74 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: the scale of Gallup, and you've been asking how is 75 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: your life going? Since two thousand and six. You interview 76 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: people over one hundred and fifty countries every year to 77 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: ask them how their lives are going. In you partner 78 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: with a Sustainable Development Solutions Network, which is an initiative 79 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: the United Nations to produce the World Happiness Report. These 80 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: are really wildly different countries. How do you actually get 81 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: the information? So in these countries where we conduct interviews, 82 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: and as you mentioned, we do about one hundred and 83 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: forty to one hundred and fifty countries every single year, 84 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: and about forty to fifty of them we do phone interviews. 85 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: We call people either on a landline phone or on 86 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: a mobile phone. But for the other hundred we do 87 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: face to face interviewing. That means that we have people 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: that are effectively walking the planet, not just doing capital cities, 89 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: only asking people in the most far off places tell 90 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: us about how your life is going. And that also 91 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: requires us to translate everything into virtually every language in 92 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: the world. If five percent of people in one particular 93 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: country speak a certain language or dialect, we make this 94 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: interview available so that they can report to us how 95 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: their lives are going. So you actually have Kenyans interviewing Kenyans, 96 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: Brazilians interviewing Resilians. In some countries will have very strict rules, 97 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: like Saudi Arabia, it must require real creativity to find 98 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: the right for example, women who interview women, because in 99 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia you could never have a man interview a woman. 100 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And so when we conducted our last 101 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: survey in Afghanistan. It was face to face. This was 102 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: exactly the time when the American forces were leaving the 103 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: country and the Taliban allowed us to ask how people's 104 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: lives are going. Women were interviewing women, and men were 105 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: interviewing men, and we found something that's probably not a 106 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: massive surprise to people, which is that anger, stress, sadness, 107 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: physical pain, and worry reached not just a record high 108 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan over that period of time, it was the 109 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: highest amount of those negative emotions we have ever seen 110 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: for any country in the history of our database. So 111 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. We do need coordination oftentimes with the government. 112 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: We ask questions like corruption, We ask questions like approval 113 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: ratings of leaders, and some countries say to us, that's 114 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: not culturally acceptable. So you can see there are about 115 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: thirty countries in the world where we don't ask about 116 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: job approval ratings like we do here in the United 117 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: States for every president dating back to the nineteen thirties. 118 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: So there are some countries will be very dangerous and 119 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: people probably wouldn't give you an honest answer because they 120 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: know they could get killed if they were too honest. Well, 121 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: that depends, So you are correct about some countries being 122 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: too dangerous, and the safety of our interviewers is one 123 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: of the things it's most important to us. So we 124 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: have not been back to the Central African Republic or 125 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: the Democratic Public of Congo since twenty seventeen because right now, 126 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: in order for people to go door to door, it's 127 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: just not safe enough for him. We've never been to 128 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: North Korea. The very idea that Kim Jong un would 129 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: be okay with us asking about how people's lives are 130 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: going almost sounds like a bad joke, but it's also 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: a reality. But the other thing is that while people 132 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: may not always tell the truth about how they feel 133 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: about the leadership of their country, what they are always 134 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: honest about is how their lives are going. So when 135 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: you ask people rate your life on a scale here 136 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: to ten, ten is the best imaginable life and zero 137 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: is the worst imaginable life. Where do you stand today? 138 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: The people who say that they have the best lives 139 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: in the world are not in places like the Palestinian territories, 140 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: are Haiti. The place where they say that are in 141 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: places like Denmark in Finland. And when you go to 142 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: places like the Democratic Republic of Congo, Haiti and the 143 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: Palestinian territories. What is said back to us is people 144 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: think their lives are at two or at three. So 145 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: you do find correlating this to external information, and like 146 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: GDP per capita, you find that we are confirming what 147 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: you'd think. You'd know that places where people are struggling, 148 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: they know they're struggling, and people who have it well 149 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: know they have it. Well. You guys ask some very 150 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: clever questions. I mean, one of them is were you 151 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: treated with respect all day yesterday? Eighty six percent of 152 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: people responded yes. That's an amazingly high number. To me, 153 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: that is a huge surprise for me as well. I 154 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: was lucky enough to conduct some of the qualitative interviews, 155 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: and one of them I did that in Mongolia in 156 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen in Ulan Batar, and I interviewed a woman 157 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: in a yurt and we asked her that question, did 158 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: you feel treated with respect all the day yesterday? And 159 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: while I had never met this woman previously, the woman 160 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: that I was sitting there with felt like somebody had 161 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: known my whole life, because when we asked her that question, 162 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: she laughed and she said back to us, of course 163 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: I did. And I think what she was conveying is 164 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: that nobody disrespects me, and there are a lot of 165 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: people globally that feel that they've been treated with respect 166 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: all day by everyone in their community and at work. 167 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: The other one, which I find fascinating and I asked 168 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: a couple of questions about it, is that seventy three 169 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: percent of the people responded yes to the question did 170 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: you smile and laugh a lot yesterday? Does that distribute? 171 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: So there are some countries where you get really high 172 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: numbers and some countries we get relatively low numbers about 173 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: smiling and laughing without questions. So there are two constructs 174 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: that you have to measure in terms of a great life. 175 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: One is how people see their life. The other way 176 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: is how they live their life. When we ask people 177 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: in terms of seeing their life, it taps more into 178 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: their remembering minds, so it's a reflection of everything that's 179 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: been happening in their life. And when you look at 180 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: the rankings of that, that's typically Denmark at the top, 181 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: Denmark and Finland where it's Haiti and the Palestinian territories 182 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: at the bottom. The other aspect is how do you 183 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: live life every day? How much stress do you have, 184 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: how much do you laugh and smile? If you look 185 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: at the results of that index, the people who know 186 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: how to have the most fun in the world, without 187 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: question or Latin Americans. So even in some of the 188 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: countries where GDP per capita is among the bottom quartile, 189 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: take the Dominican Republic. For some reason, the people in 190 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: that particular country say that they laugh and smile a 191 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: lot and experience a lot of enjoyment. So there's something 192 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: culturally that's happening in Latin America that the world has 193 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: a lot to learn from in terms of having fun. Hi, 194 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: this is newt We have serious decisions to make about 195 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: the future of our country. Americans must confront big government socialism, 196 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: which has taken over the modern Democratic Party, big business, news, media, entertainment, 197 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: and academia. 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Order 207 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: it today at gingwishtree sixty dot com slash book. What 208 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: would you say is the difference between being happy in 209 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: Denmark and Finland and being happy, say in Brazil or Columbia. Well, 210 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: I think one of the challenges is the misuse of 211 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: the word happy. So when we talk about people rating 212 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: their lives, and that is what the SDSN uses for 213 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: the world's happiest countries, they're probably measuring contentment, not happiness. 214 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: If you want to measure happiness, it's probably closer to 215 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: asking people if they laugh and smile a lot, or 216 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,599 Speaker 1: if they experience enjoyment. So the real happiest countries in 217 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: the world are probably Latin America, not the Nordic countries, 218 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: which are probably the most tent in the world. So again, 219 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: exactly what it is that we're measuring. It's so important 220 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: for people to kind of pull back and look at 221 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: the actual information. I'm affected to something sent by my 222 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: wife being from Wisconsin with a are huge differences between 223 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: Scandinavians and Germans, for example, So you could say that 224 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: the Nordics are content but it would be inappropriate for 225 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: them to laugh too much. I wouldn't go necessarily that far, 226 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: because we have seen some years where Denmark, for example, 227 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: is also one of the highest countries in the world 228 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: with respect to laughing and smiling a lot. So there 229 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: is a lot that the world can learn from Denmark, 230 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: not just in terms of contentment, but also from laughing smiling. 231 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: I'll say one of the thing, mister speaker, which is, 232 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, when the World Happiness Report comes out every 233 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: single year and again they're using this rate your life 234 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: on a scale of zero to ten, and it says 235 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: we're crowning that, you know, or effectively, they're crowning the 236 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: world's happiest countries. And when Finland was that particular country 237 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: one year, they interviewed people on the street and they said, 238 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, Finland was named the happiest country in the world. 239 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: What do you think, And a lot of people on 240 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: the streets in Finland said, well, I don't feel happy. 241 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: One minister actually said, if we're the happiest country in 242 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: the world, I feel bad for all the other countries, 243 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: and again I think that's because of the labeling of happiness. 244 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: What we're capturing there has a lot more to do 245 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: with contentment than it does the actual sort of fleeting, 246 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: ephemeral motion of happiness. It's funny you raised that because, 247 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: as you know, the Prime Minister of Finland right now 248 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: was a very attractive young woman and there was a 249 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: little mini scandal because she was out dancing and what 250 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: have you. And part of her comeback was, look, we're 251 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: the happiest country in the world and one of my 252 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: jobs as prime ministers to keep us all happy. What 253 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: are you complaining about? So they were coming straight off 254 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,599 Speaker 1: the Gallop data and her explanation of that she was 255 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: happy and she wanted everyone in Finland to be happy. 256 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: But I agree with you there tends to be a 257 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: stoic quality that is very, very different from the Dominican Republic. 258 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: I would have thought almost any of the Caribbean islands, 259 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: not just the lat Islands, but that could have been 260 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: just from my having been a tourist. I may not 261 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: be accurate for say a Jamaica or Barbados, which are 262 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: not Latin in culture. You do get into more difficult 263 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: things when these almost a third of the people experienced 264 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: physical pain the previous day. That to me was a 265 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: surprisingly high number. And it's very concerning because the work 266 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: that Professor An Case and Nobel Laureate Angus Deaton have 267 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: done here in the United States on deaths of despair, 268 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: and of course, deaths of despair is a term that 269 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: captures suicide's, opioid overdoses, and also deaths because of alcohol poisoning. 270 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: We're seeing I think it's now seventy five thousand people 271 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: a year that are now dying because of those three 272 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: things combine. Now, when a Case and Angus Deeton looked 273 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: at Gallup's data, we had that particular item on physical 274 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: pain all the way down to the US congressional district level, 275 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: and what they found is that that has a huge correlation. 276 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: So this idea about not just physical pain, but also 277 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: how do we emotionally deal with this physical pain. The 278 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: constant cipquences can be extremely deadly, and so the trend 279 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,239 Speaker 1: that we had seen in the United States that was increasing, 280 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: it's now increasing for the entire world, and so we're 281 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: very concerned about what that looks like. And I'll say 282 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: one other thing, mister speaker, because I think one of 283 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: the things that people ultimately turn to is well is 284 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: the rise in pain. Does it have something to do 285 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: with the fact that globally we have an aging population. 286 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: It is a fact that globally we have an aging population, 287 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: But when we cut the data by age, we find 288 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: that there's a rise in pain among all age groups. 289 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: So this is not just because the world is getting 290 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: a little bit older. I think that's a very important 291 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: distinction that I worry because it seems to me we've 292 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: had a remarkable increase in teenage suicides and in young 293 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: people who are overdosing on drugs, and in a sense, 294 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: the dysfunctionality, if anything, has been in people between fourteen 295 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: and thirty more than between say sixty and seventy. And 296 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: I find that very worrisome for the future of the 297 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: whole culture. And I think that something speaking of politically 298 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: here in the United States that has received bipartisan support 299 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: is to tackle this issue of mental health and suicides. 300 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: And suicides have been growing here in the United States 301 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: for I think almost two decades according to the CDC, 302 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: but this new initiative on the hot line on nine 303 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: eight eight, so that people have someone to call when 304 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: they're in a lot of trouble. Is a great development, 305 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: especially because the hot lines that existed before. One out 306 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: of six phone calls to those hotlines went totally unanswered. 307 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: And it's really hard to imagine, but how much somebody 308 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: would struggle that they want to talk to somebody will 309 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: wait up to two minutes before they'll hang up, and 310 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: one out of six go totally unanswered. So I think 311 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: this initiative nationally around nine eight eight is really a 312 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: positive development for the United States. You do make a 313 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: point that there's a huge difference between the twenty percent 314 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: of the people who report that they have a great 315 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: life and the twenty percent who rate their lives as 316 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: the worst. What are the real differences between these two groups. Well, 317 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: let me start by saying just kind of articulating what 318 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: that data point says, because there's a data point that's 319 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: even worse. Fifteen years ago, we ask people rate your 320 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: life ten is the best, maginal zero is the worst. 321 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: We found that about three and a half percent said 322 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: my life's a perfect ten, and we found that about 323 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: one point seven percent said my life is the worst. 324 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: Imaginal it can't get worse. Over fifteen years of tracking 325 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: we found that the people who said their lives are 326 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: at ten has now more than doubled almost eight percent 327 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: say I have a perfect life. And we also found 328 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: that people who said my life is a perfect zero 329 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: it can't get worse has more than quadrupled to almost 330 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: eight percent. So in terms of how people are seeing 331 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: their lives is pulling apart. We isolated the twenty percent 332 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: who rate their lives the best and the twenty percent 333 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: who rate their lives the worst, and you can see 334 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: this new concept of well being inequality and how these 335 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: two groups are pulling apart. So when we look to 336 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: see what do they have in common the people who 337 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: rate their lives the worst people who rate their lives 338 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: the best, it's ultimately five things. It's their job, it's 339 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: their social interactions, it's their community, their financial wellbeing, and 340 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: their physical wellbeing. And I think physical wellbeing is really 341 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: important here because a lot of times in the United 342 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: States are in rich countries. We see that in physical 343 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: wellbeing we have an obesity epidemic, but that's because we 344 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: have sort of a myopic view on this topic, because 345 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: for so many other countries there is a hunger crisis. 346 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: The world has been winning of the war against hunger 347 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: for four decades and twenty fourteen it's switched. Gallop in 348 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: the FAO found that twenty percent of people globally we're 349 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: either moderately or severely food insecure. That trend has risen 350 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: annually and is now thirty percent for the entire world. 351 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: So we have a serious hunger crisis, and that ultimately 352 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: causes a lot of pain and for people to see 353 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: their lives worse. So we actually and of course this 354 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: is being is accubated now by the break up in 355 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: the agricultural flow from Ukraine and Russia, the droughts in 356 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: the US Zoo. So this fall we're likely to have 357 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: a very significant increase in the number of people who 358 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: are literally either starving or close to starving. Without question, 359 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine has absolutely exacerbated this already existing problem. 360 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: But I think what's so important to emphasize here is 361 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: that many people think that the hunger crisis was caused 362 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: by COVID or that it was caused by the war 363 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: in Ukraine. And that's the challenge is that many of 364 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: these trends that we're seeing existed long before these massive problems, 365 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: and these problems are exacerbating these already existing problems. It's 366 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: not causing them. If you could give people advice and 367 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: you wanted them to learn how to be in the 368 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: top twenty percent, what would you tell them? So, I 369 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: would say two things. The first one and this is 370 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: where the private sector has a massive responsibility to solve 371 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: the world's problems. And that's right there in workplaces. If 372 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: you count the amount of hours that a human being 373 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: works in their life. On the high end, one study 374 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: I saw was one hundred and fifteen thousand hours of 375 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: a lifetime is spent working. If you isolate that in years, 376 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: it's more than thirteen years, meaning the only thing you 377 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: do more in life is sleep. I replicated a similar 378 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: analysis using life expectancy data and also Gallops data on 379 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: how many hours do people actually work. I think it's 380 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: fifty hours per week in countries like Mongolia. And what 381 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: I found is that on the low end it's eighty 382 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: five thousand, which is nine years of your life. If 383 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: you are miserable at work, it makes you miserable in life. 384 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: And when you look to see what workplace misery looks like, 385 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: if you have a job where you don't have the 386 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: ability to do what you do best. If you hate 387 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: your colleagues, and if you have a manager that drives 388 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: you nuts, the daily pain that you experience, and again 389 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: this is now a statistical fact. Your daily experience is 390 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: either identical or slightly worse than someone who is completely unemployed. 391 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: This is the kind of pain that is caused by 392 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: bad workplaces. And if we could get the people that 393 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: are thriving at work today, we find that it's twenty 394 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: percent of the world thrive in their current jobs. It 395 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: doesn't mean they have a total absence of stress or 396 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: sadness or physical pain. They do because work, by definition, 397 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: is exerting some sort of physical or mental energy in 398 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: order to accomplish something. But the job that you have, 399 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: the soul of it cannot be stress, anger, sadness and pain. 400 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: I'll just make one last point is every single time 401 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: we as humans, we try and create solutions to get 402 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: away from work instead of improving work. Take for example, 403 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: four day work weeks. Take for example work life balance. 404 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: The very idea of work life balance assumes that we 405 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: can compartmentalize what happened at work and what happens after work, 406 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: and the realities you can't. If your boss berated you 407 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: at noon. It's really hard to forget about that. So 408 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: we want to ask people around the world, from Germany 409 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 1: to the US, did the stress of work cause you 410 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: to behave badly with friends and loved ones in the 411 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: past thirty days? Far more of a majority of people 412 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: everywhere said yes, So bad workplaces are not only causing 413 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: misery to individuals, it's also causing misery to people's friends 414 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: and family, and private sector workers ultimately need to address that. 415 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: When you look at that, would you say to people, Look, 416 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: if you really feel bad about your job, go get 417 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: another one. Don't cling to it. Not necessarily, because one 418 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: of the challenges is if you take a country life 419 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 1: the United States, you have a third of people that 420 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: are engaged in their jobs, so that means seventy percent aren't, 421 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: and a lot of times you just make a move 422 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: from one miserable work environment to the next. Now, I 423 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: think the disconnect here has to do with business philosophy. 424 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: There are a lot of freedoman knights, the shareholder capitalists 425 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: that kind of hear these concepts and think these are 426 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: too fuzzy. I don't want to hear about this kind 427 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: of stuff. All I care about is driving profit and 428 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: driving share price. The reality is is that creating a 429 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: thriving workplace actually is agnostic to all business philosophies and 430 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: will also help drive the bottom line. Why, because human 431 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: beings are emotional. If human beings have more of an 432 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: attachment to their work, they're actually far more productive. They 433 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: actually look out for each other, there's less safety incidents, 434 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: and they also are less likely to leave. In fact, 435 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: you can offer from all the way up to a 436 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: twenty percent pay increase and they won't leave if they 437 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: love their colleagues and they love their job. So this 438 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: agenda about creating thriving workplaces is something that really plays 439 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: to anyone, whether or not you're a shareholder or a 440 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: stakeholder capitalist, or for that matter, a state capitalist, which 441 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: sometimes feels like an oxymoron to me, but I guess 442 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: there are those out there that are state capitalists. But again, 443 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: a thriving workplace drives ultimately everyone's agenda and makes it 444 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: better for the people that work there. You create what 445 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: you call a you curve of happiness, showing that young 446 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: people rate their lives high, holder people rate their lives high, 447 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: but middle aged people rate their lives the lowest. Why 448 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: do you think that is well. You know, I think 449 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: there are a lot of critics about well being research 450 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: or just research in general, and they say, look gallant, 451 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: thanks for all this work. But you've confirmed the obvious. Basically, 452 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: you've shown us that a mid life crisis is a 453 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: real thing. Maybe that is something that's true, that young 454 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: people feel a lot better about life, and as you 455 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: get toward the end, you feel a lot better. I 456 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: don't think that's the case, and I think the way 457 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: to flatten that curve ultimately has to do with two things. 458 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: Number One, workplaces. Workplaces make us miserable, and it's true 459 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: in every single country in the world. And the second 460 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: thing is is getting help with childcare. Ultimately, the more 461 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: children you have, and Arthur Brooks you know him very 462 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: well and he's written about this at Harvard, but the 463 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: more kids you have, the more stress, the more sadness, 464 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: the more physical pain that you have. And it doesn't 465 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: mean don't have children. Children are a fundamental part of 466 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: life and they make life great, but they also make 467 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: life difficult and sometimes it causes people to reflect on 468 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: life a little bit in a more difficult way. But 469 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: the reality is that when those kids get older and 470 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: you're reflecting on life when you are in your seventies 471 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: or eighties, you do so in a much better way, 472 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: and you say, I'm thankful that I did go through 473 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: those experiences because you're remembering mind is far different than 474 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: your experiencing mind. And sometimes you have to go through 475 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: tough things like working through a job that you love 476 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: can be hard, raising children can be hard, but you're 477 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: remembering mine later in life says I'm glad I did 478 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: those things. I'm better off for it. That's a fascinating 479 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: distinction between experiencing and remembering. Now you do ask the 480 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: question does money buy happiness? What is the world pole 481 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: answer to that. It's a great question, And I don't 482 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: know that we have totally answered the question, but we're close. 483 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: And our answer is money does not buy happiness, but 484 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: it is hard to be happy without it. And it 485 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: also is what is happiness? Because if you believe happiness 486 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: is this idea of contentment about rating our life on 487 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: a scale of zero to ten, then the more money 488 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: you make, the higher you will rate your life. And 489 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: Justin Wolfer's and Bessie Stevenson replicated this analysis globally and 490 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: they find that there is no satiation point in terms 491 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: of how much money that you make. But when you're 492 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: talking about stress and sadness and about laughing and smiling 493 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: a lot, it does appear that there is a satiation 494 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: point and after your basic needs are met or that, 495 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: it's very hard for money to actually buy you more 496 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: laughter or less anger or sadness. So the trick is 497 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: to have at least enough. That's right, it's the least 498 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: have enough. And the other thing is if you want 499 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: a silver bullet to have more fun, it really comes 500 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: down to great relationships with your friends and family. A 501 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: lot of times people knock Thanksgiving because they say this 502 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: is going to be a miserable time and they, you know, 503 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: are going to spend it with friends and family. It's 504 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: not true. I mean, the research is overwhelming that the 505 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: more time that you spend with friends and family, the 506 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: more positive emotions that you experience. And it's almost to 507 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,959 Speaker 1: the point where it doesn't satiate in terms of how 508 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: many hours you spend with friends and family in terms 509 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: of the impact it makes on your positive emotions. One 510 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: of the things you've found that did surprise me is that, well, 511 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen experience was bad. The actual increase in 512 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: gallops negative experience index was mostly between two thousand and 513 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: seven and twenty fourteen and not COVID itself. That's correct. 514 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: So if you look at this increase that's taken place 515 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 1: in terms of anger, stress, sadness, physical pain, and worry, 516 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: eighty percent of the rise took place before COVID, And 517 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: the rise has been happening almost perfectly around the entire world. 518 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: So if you look at the trend in China, it's 519 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: been increasing dramatically. If you look at the trend in India, 520 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: it's been increasing dramatically. If you look at it in Mexico, 521 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: if you look at it in Colombia, Venezuela is probably 522 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: not a surprise to anyone. If you look at it 523 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: in Argentina or Brazil, all of it is going up. 524 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: It is almost exactly the same, right, And this is 525 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: why we're so concerned about it, why we thought it 526 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: was time to come out with a book on it. 527 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: What do you recommend to global leaders if they accept 528 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: your analysis and they accept your data, which is the 529 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: most comprehensive in the world, what would they do well. 530 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: I think the first thing is is they need to 531 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: be following these particular metrics. I mean, if you give 532 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: a pop quiz to some of the world's top leaders 533 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: and ask them about their stock market, unemployment, or even 534 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: GDP of the particular country, I think they'd all ace it. 535 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: But if you ask them about how people feel in 536 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: their countries, I think a lot of them don't know, 537 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: or they just sort of speak from personal reflection on 538 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: the conversations they have, and that's not necessarily a reflection 539 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: of the entire countries. So the first thing is I 540 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: think they should take the measurement of this more seriously, 541 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: asking people about their stress, sadness, and anger. You can 542 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: also see this plainly evident in the un sustainable Development Goals. 543 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: There are no measures of subjective well being. I think 544 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: that's a challenge. The second thing, though, is that there 545 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: are a lot of world leaders. Take eighty of them 546 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: for example, eighty countries not only do not have a 547 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: statistics plan. If they do have a plan, it's not 548 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: even funded. So basic data aren't being collected in many 549 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: countries globally, they're not even getting basic data on births 550 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: and deaths. There's something that's kind of unfortunate. But in 551 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: North Macedonia, the head of the statistics two to three 552 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: years ago, is asked how many people live in this country. 553 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,239 Speaker 1: He said, because the official statistics I think was one 554 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: point five million. He said, it's one point eight but 555 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: I can't prove it, and it's because the country hadn't 556 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: done a census in twenty years. So very basic data 557 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: is needed, and in terms of how people feel, these 558 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: countries need this as well. The next thing is is 559 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: we need to have a better understanding about the subjective 560 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: aspects of life. So it's no longer an understatement to 561 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: say that loneliness is killing people. It is. And right 562 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: now we find globally that there are three hundred million 563 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: adults that don't have a single friend in their life 564 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: that they even talk to. And we know that twenty 565 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: percent of adults globally don't have a single friend or 566 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: family member that they can count on in times of need. 567 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: There was an academic out of BYU and she did 568 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: a meta analysis on loneliness and she found that those 569 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: that are lonely have a fifty percent increase in chance 570 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: of dying if they don't have anyone that's looking out 571 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: for him. And so I think some of these governments 572 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: that are trying to take it seriously, and honestly, I 573 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: think some people are laughing at them, but I think 574 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: it's the right direction, which is Japan and the UK 575 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: have opened up ministries of loneliness because, as we've known, 576 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: in Japan, there's a massive challenge with suicide, but that 577 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: government has figured something out because suicides have dropped dramatically 578 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: in Japan. So I think a lot of these initiatives 579 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: that governments are doing, like here in the United States 580 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: with nine to eight eight in terms of a suicide hotline, 581 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: I think is the direction that will really help people 582 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: who are really struggling. Right now, I think you really 583 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: have such a rich database and such an extraordinary system. 584 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: Are you remaining committed to going out worldwide again and again? 585 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: We'll never stop. I say that because even during COVID, 586 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: when we were not able to conduct interviews face to face, 587 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: we figured out a way to continue to collect data. 588 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: We wanted to make sure that our interviewers were safe, 589 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: but we also wanted to make sure that people had 590 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: the opportunity to have their voices heard in one of 591 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: the most important times possible. The first time we'd really 592 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: experience this was in twenty fourteen in Liberia, Liberia was, 593 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: of course experiencing in a bowl outbreak and conducting face 594 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: to face interviews is impossible because you don't want the 595 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: interviewers or the people within homes to contract abola. And 596 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: so somebody said, well, of course you know that in 597 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: Liberia the language that's spoken there is English. And so 598 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: although it's not ideal from a data collection perspective, we 599 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: had interviewers in Omaha, Nebraska call into Liberia to ask 600 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: about the economic conditions, to ask about their own personal experiences, 601 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: and the stories were incredible. We had people saying I 602 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: would rather experience war than I would abola. We had 603 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: people saying, well, please just stay on the phone with me. 604 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: I haven't had someone to talk to in days. But 605 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: we were able to get information to the World Bank 606 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: and to the Liberian government even when they had none available. 607 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: So this is Gallup's mission who We're never going to 608 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: stop doing it. In addition to getting your book, Can 609 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: people go to a Gallup website and learn a lot? Absolutely, 610 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: so people go to Gallup dot com they can find 611 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: all this information. We're constantly writing articles. So for example, 612 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 1: in the UK, we know that inflation was the highest 613 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: in all rich countries and so we're reporting on how 614 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: do people feel about it, how do they feel about 615 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: their personal economic situation. And for those that don't have 616 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: time to go through every single article and read every 617 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: single word, we actually came up with a week in 618 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: Charts newsletter so that we take the five most interesting 619 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: charts from the voice of the people in America, the 620 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: voice of the people from all around the world, to say, 621 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: here are the things that you need to know from 622 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: what people are thinking and feeling now. So I'd highly 623 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: recommend that anyone that's interested, it's free that they can 624 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: sign up to because we put a lot of work 625 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: into it and we want leaders to know what's on 626 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: the minds of people everywhere. John, I want to thank 627 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: you for joining me. Every time I've worked with Gallup, 628 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: I've been amazed at the professionalism, the level of intelligence, 629 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: the quality of the people you recruit, and the sheer 630 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: institutional dedication. You have. Your new book, blind Spot The 631 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: Rise of Global Unhappiness and How Leaders missed It. I 632 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: think is essential reading for those in leadership roles who 633 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: are trying to understand better what is happening in our 634 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: society and more importantly, what they can do as leaders. 635 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: To address some of the issues people are facing. We're 636 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: going to have it listed on our show page and 637 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: encourage people to get it. And I want to thank 638 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: you for joining me on news World and sharing this 639 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: information with us. Mister speaker, thank you for having an 640 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: interest in what we do and for having an interesting 641 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: in the voice of people in every country in the world. 642 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests John Clifton. You can get 643 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book blind Spot, The 644 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: Rise of Global Unhappiness and How Leaders Missed It on 645 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: our show page at newtsworld dot com. News World is 646 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: produced by ge which Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive 647 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: producer is Garnsey Sloan, our producers Rebecca Howe, and our 648 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 649 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: da by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 650 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope 651 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with 652 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 653 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of newts 654 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: World can sign up for my three free weekly columns 655 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: at gingwire dot com. Slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This 656 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: is Newtsworld.