WEBVTT - How Tech is Harming its Most Vulnerable Users 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.600 A couple of weeks ago, I went to Boston to 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.840 meet a doctor named Michael Rich. I was sitting in 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.240 a large atrium inside Boston Children's Hospital with one of 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.160 his patients, a fifteen year old called Jared and his 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.680 mom Jen. I'm using only their first names for reasons 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.000 that will become obvious. Good to see you, a guest. 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.439 So are we all doing this? How are we doing this? 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.720 You're the boss, one on one one. Mom there? Who 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:30.560 do you want? It's up to you if you want 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.440 to be there. That's completely for Michael Rich is a 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.279 pediatrician who specializes in the way as online media can 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:40.960 affect kids, and he's been seeing Jared because of his 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.800 relationship with video games, especially multiplayer games like Minecraft and 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:50.840 Mortal Kombat. Where do you feel your gaming is getting 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:52.479 in the way now? Is it getting in the way 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.120 or do you think you've got it balanced and managed? 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.960 I feel like I got it balanced, but not completely. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.960 There's define only still improvement, Like if it's staying up 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:08.560 until a certain hour still playing games, it's definitely something 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:13.800 to work upon. For a while, Jared was playing video 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.240 games NonStop, but he was also suffering from anxiety and depression. 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:24.240 When I was so addicted to the media, I had 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.160 a hard time coming out of my room communicating with people. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.640 I would get consumed into the game and I wouldn't 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:39.480 really have a sense of time, and I would sometimes 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:46.480 be playing for hours without noticing it. Gaming started to 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.200 eat up a bigger and bigger part of Jared's life, 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.680 until it eventually threatened to spin out of control. That's 0:01:53.680 --> 0:02:09.720 when his family decided to get help. Hi. I'm brad 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.239 Stone and I'm Pagatari, and this week on Decrypted, we're 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:19.040 taking a look at a phenomenon widely called addiction to technology. 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.160 But some kids, the Internet is a new kind of sanctuary, 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.359 a place where they know their parents can't track them. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:30.120 But for others, screen time can become compulsive, even harmful, 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.240 particularly if they're already prone to anxiety or mood disorders. 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.240 Now some people are raising the alarm with the tech 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.080 companies themselves, saying the industry needs to make sure it's 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.919 most successful products aren't harming its most vulnerable users, and 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.040 some companies might finally be paying attention to stay with us. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.080 I met Jen in the lobby of my hotel the 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.880 day before Jared's appointment with Michael rich. Jen is lively, 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.800 cracking jokes and laughing a lot. But I could feel 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.320 the emotion as she started talking about her son. He's 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:10.040 a great kid and he's loving. He's so sweet. He 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:17.320 is very friendly. He shy. Jared is on the spectrum. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:23.000 He has Asperger's um. He's brillant. He's very smart, she said. 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.280 Jared always loved playing with computers, and from a very 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.160 young age he was really good at using them. You know, 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.200 as he got older, if you didn't know how to 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.640 do something, you would ask your four or five and 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.480 six year old, you know, excuse me, can you show 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:38.839 me how to fix this on the computer, And he'd 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.440 come over and just, you know, tap away, and he'd 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.560 fix it. Jared got his first tablet when he was 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.680 ten years old, and a cell phone about two years later. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.080 He'd spend a lot of time playing video games like 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.280 Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog with his little brother 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.960 on the family we But in his preteen years, Jared's 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.280 taste in games that started to change and he would 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:06.160 spend more time playing on his own. I started getting 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:10.200 more into fighting games, like certain games where there would 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.600 be like you could play as a character and you 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.720 would fight against a bunch of other people, not around 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:20.159 the world, but you would fight against computers like um 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.240 Mortal Kombat. I started getting into that when I was 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.760 somewhere around seventh grade. Jared would spend more and more 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.440 time gaming, and his parents started to notice changes in 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:35.520 Jared's behavior. If I would tell him to shut it off, 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.839 he would become so angry, and that's not the kid 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.200 he is. He would tantrum um and just get very 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.440 bitter and very angry and lash out. The games were 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.120 becoming all consuming, many of them, like a multiplayer game 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.000 called Minecraft, a social there are other players all joining 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.080 remotely from their own computers, and this became a way 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.440 for Jared to connect with other people. And I think 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:07.800 that's why Jared liked it so much. Because Jared has 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.760 Asperger's and he has a UM he has social anxiety, 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:17.520 but he also has a social deficit, so he felt 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:24.640 more comfortable talking and communicating if the people weren't right 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.440 there in front of him. And that's how he met 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.919 a lot of the people that he would talk to 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:38.520 and you know, would call his friends because they'd get 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:44.360 on the computer every afternoon and night and morning and 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:48.760 play and talk and talk and play and play and 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.640 play and talk. But Jared's moods got worse as he 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.760 went through middle school and he started spending even more 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.520 time online. I noticed he would start staying in his 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:04.320 room longer. Um. You know, if I would walk into 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:09.960 his room, he shut the computer down, or UM he 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:16.080 would switch screens. UM became very secretive. His parents didn't 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.039 know it at the time, but Jared had started visiting 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:23.680 porn sites, all easily available to him online. One night, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.520 things came to a head. So one night I went 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.320 to check on the kids before I went to bed 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.800 and make sure the TVs wore off whatever UM, and 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:37.640 I noticed UM like a light underneath Jared's door, So 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.840 I turned. I opened the door and Jared was not 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.240 asleep and his tablet was on the bed. So I 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.000 went over to grab the tablet and turn it off, 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.760 and there was a porn video playing. So I grabbed 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:56.760 the tablet and Jared immediately jumped up, and I grabbed 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.320 the tablet and immediately ran into the kitchen and grabbed 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:10.720 a hammer and shattered it. At first Jared, he immediately 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.920 said that he has a problem, he can't help it. 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.960 And my response to that was your problem is is 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:24.080 that you got caught and that's the only problem you have. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.640 But that didn't solve Jared's problem. Even after the tablet 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.200 was gone, he kept plowing hours into video games. He 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.440 was still depressed, and one day Jen found a note 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.720 Jared had scribbled on a napkin that revealed Jared was 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.520 thinking about hurting himself. And then Jen got a call 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.640 from Jared's school Jared had harmed himself in the school bathrooms. 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.240 Jen started looking for help for Jared. He'd been seeing 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.360 a therapist, but that therapist had told Jen the constant 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.280 gaming was just a phase and hadn't taken it seriously. 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.640 I didn't want my child to end up being, you know, 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.520 um on a wall in a police department or a 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.520 post office when he grew up. I didn't want him 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:38.000 to be a statistic like that. She pulled him out 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.280 of school and enrolled him in a day program for 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.040 three weeks. It helped, but Jared's self esteem was still low. 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.559 He was still grappling with his depression and still spent 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.959 most of his time online. That's when a recommendation from 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.920 a coworker put Jen in touch with a new doctor, 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.320 Michael Rich. Dr Rich is energetic, with silver hair and 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.440 a quick smile. He's a professa at Harvard Medical School 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:07.360 and specializes in something he calls PAIEMU, problematic interactive media use. 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.600 Fifteen years ago he found at the Center on Media 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.360 and Child Health to study it, so he prefers not 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.280 to describe it as an addiction. Dr Rich said, it's 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:23.240 medically inaccurate, and more importantly for me as a pediatrician, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.840 is the stigma we attached to the word addict or addiction. 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.880 We think of bums on skid row or junkies in 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.920 a shooting gallery. We don't think about our ten year 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.240 old who's flipping out because he has to stop playing 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.720 Fortnite and go to bed. Dr Rich says he sees 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:44.640 four main categories of harmful media use. There's gaming, which 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:50.000 affects mostly boys, social media, which affects mostly girls, and 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.679 then pawn and information binging. Right, that's where you might 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.880 get lost watching one YouTube video after another. Porn and 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.520 information binging affect boys and girls more or less equally. 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.920 For many of Dr Rich's patients, things had to get 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.600 really serious before their families decided to seek out medical help. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.360 But he said it's a slippery slope. Many children are 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.680 being affected by their use of technology, just less severely. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.040 We are distracted all the time by that little buzz 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.400 sometimes a fan on buzz in our pocket, right, and 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.959 and so we behave with each other very differently than 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.360 we used to. We can't get into an elevator without 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.640 looking at our phone, or onto a bus or whatever. 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.560 We don't look at each other. We don't talk to 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:40.840 each other. People don't um observe personal space the same way. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:45.000 Six study from the organization Common Sense Media found that 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:50.200 half of teenagers felt addicted to their devices and said 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.400 they checked their devices at least once an hour. But 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.679 because there's very little awareness of how serious this problem 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.440 can get, some parents may not even notice it. They 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.000 might chalk it up to something else, like bad behavior. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.560 I think that many, many kids are somewhere on a 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.760 continuum of doing this instead of things that would probably 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.160 be better for them, like taking a walk in the woods, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.600 or kicking a ball around the backyard, or beating up 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.920 your little brother even you know, because at least that's 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.920 a little social emotional growth. Dr Rich told me something 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:27.120 else that's interesting. Tim affects some children more than others. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.160 We have yet to find a young person who does 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:39.280 not have a known psychiatric or psychological dysfunction that may 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.880 have never expressed itself until it got into the digital space. 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:48.040 In other words, I am not convinced that these are 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:55.640 standalone diagnoses, so the technology itself isn't causing the problem. 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.720 The kids who are most negatively affected by technology are 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.520 the ones who have an under lying condition that could 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:06.640 be attention deficit disorder, anxiety depression. Dr Rich described them 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:11.280 as mood disorders or relational problems. He said, sometimes children 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.439 are drawn to online media because it's a coping mechanism 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:19.680 for them. What we're seeing is that, for example, kids 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:23.880 who have a problem with gaming often have problems with attention, 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:30.560 and in a way, the computer video game is a 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:35.120 much safer space than the chaos of real life because 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.400 it gives you a very circumscribed universe with a set 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:44.120 of clear rules that don't change. The classroom is chaos, right, 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.920 someone's talking over here, there's a bird flying there, you know, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.439 the teachers of droning on at the blackboard. Someone threw 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.160 a spitball and hitch in the back of the head. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.480 You know, all of that stuff is going on, and 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:58.199 that's very hard to manage. So the computer or the 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.000 video game, which is in fact a computer, is an 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:06.880 environment in which they are masters. Sometimes, like in Jared's case, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.000 the child's condition may have already been diagnosed, but Dr 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.920 Rich said that he also sees cases when nobody knew 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:18.760 about the underlying condition until the child started over using technology. 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.120 And once kids get in the habit of spending a 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.880 lot of time online, it can be really difficult to 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.360 stop playing or put the device down. That's because online 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.680 media is interactive, which makes it different from other kinds 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.960 of content. A video game that is violent is very 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.199 different than a movie or a television show that is 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.440 violent in that it asks, in fact demands, that the 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.480 player do the violence as opposed to simply witness it. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.199 That it rewards doing violence better and it punishes doing 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:56.040 violence less well, which is interesting because technology companies deliberately 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:00.200 design their products this way. The kid gets involved in 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.720 a situation where the game keeps sucking him back in. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:10.040 These games are very sophisticatedly designed to frustrate you just 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.800 enough until you succeed and you get that little sport 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.200 of dopamine, and I've succeeded, and your reward is to 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.880 get to do it again, but a little bit harder, 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.040 so you're frustrated again, and it draws you back in 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.040 and constantly grabs you back in. Social media operates in 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.400 a similar way that feeling of reward comes from seeing 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.600 people liking and sharing your posts. Recently, we've started seeing 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.240 the first signs of the public and people in the 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:41.120 tech industry are feeling uneasy about this state of affairs. 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.600 In January, to Apple shareholders, the investment firm Jana Partners 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.680 and Coasters that's the pension fund for teachers in California, 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.200 wrote a letter to Apple calling on the company to 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.680 develop features that would help parents control how their children 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.560 use Apple's devices. They also asked Apple to study the 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.760 impact of their devices on children more carefully, and it 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:16.160 seems like Apple might have started to listen. Back at 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.560 the hospital, Jared has been visiting Dr Rich regularly for 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.520 over a year. Jared's tall with big brown eyes, your 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.200 regular teenager in a ball cap and check shirt. What 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:31.080 can I help with I've actually been doing better with 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:36.680 my medication. I'm taking it more often without um, mom 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.800 or dad reminding me. Like for the past few weeks, 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.520 I've been really really Rich has been treating Jared in 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.600 part with medication to reduce his anxiety and improve his concentration, 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.640 but he's also helping Jared develop better habits. How are 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:54.600 you feeling about taking it? Because I know that you 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.800 had sort of mixed feelings about I still don't like 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.440 taking it, but it's just the fact out it's going 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.640 to help me rom and you're noticing and helping you, 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.320 because I'm noticing and helping you, but I want to 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.280 make sure you do. I'm feeling less anxious over things, 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.560 but I can definitely still tell that my depression will 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.880 act up sometimes, but it's gonna take time for that 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.000 to really adjust. So being responsible for taking his medicine 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.520 is one of those good habits. Dr Rich is also 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.560 helping Jared prioritize his time, so he does his homework 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.000 first and plays video games later. The week when I 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.200 was visiting, they were working on setting a regular bedtime. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.720 Sleep is the number one thing that suffers with the gaming. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.160 You know, UM, not just because you're staying up late 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.520 to game, but you're also doing something that's really stimulating 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.880 and arousing UM. And so even when you stop, it 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.360 takes a while to wind down from that to to 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.640 get to sleep. I've actually been going to bed earlier, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.080 but what I've been noticing is that I'm waking up later. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.120 That's because your body is saying, oh, I'm getting more sleep. 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.480 I like this. We've talked a little bit about how 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.880 you need more sleep as a teenager than you did 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.199 as a little kid. But Jared isn't the only one 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.560 who's learning to adjust. Halfway through, Dr Rich went and 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:18.439 brought Jared's mom, Jen into the appointment room. So how 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.359 do you think he's doing. I think he's doing good. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.480 It's still a work in progress, aren't we. I admit 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.280 that myself. Yeah, he said that straight up front. He 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.920 feels like it's improved, that he's got more work to do. 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.240 Dr Rich often talks about the concept of digital parenting. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.119 He says it's important for parents to engage with what 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.280 their kids are doing online, even though it can sometimes 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.879 be overwhelming or scary for the parent. They feel that 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.240 their kids are so much more facile with these devices 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:54.159 and with these environments, um that they don't understand that 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.240 they often check out of parenting in the digital space, 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.800 and so the internet and interactive media runs the risk 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.640 of becoming rock and roll in the sense of it's 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.480 something mom and dad don't understand, it's something mom and 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.879 dad hate. How cool is that he wants parents to 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.359 learn how to participate in their children's online activity. What 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.359 I do recommend they do is, instead of saying I 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.040 hate that, turn it off or wag of finger, is 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.480 to sit down and play the video game with their child, 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.959 or go on social media with their child. Um And 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.320 just as you wouldn't just toss the car keys at 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.520 a twelve year old say have at it, or give 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.560 a six year old power saw, we need to give 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.560 them these tools when they are both in need of 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.840 the tool and responsible enough to use it wisely. So, Peter, 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.280 this seems like good advice. But as we said earlier, 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.320 awareness among parents is pretty low. So how do we 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.960 fix that. One thing Dr Rich is working on is 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.800 something he calls anticipatory guidance. That means he wants to 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.560 rain other doctors, other pediatricians about how they should be 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.119 talking to the parents of their young patients about what 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.840 to expect as their children grow up and start using technology. Okay, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:12.840 so I'm a I'm a parent of young kids, so 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.440 how how might my kids doctor start talking to me differently? 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.400 About their tech use. Okay, well, when your kids see 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.400 their pediatrician for their annual check up, let's say, Um, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.040 your doctor might talk to you about things like vaccination, nutrition, 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.359 you know how much weight your kids might gain. Right and, 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.000 by the way, tech never comes up in that discussion, right, 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.560 And and Dr Rich wants tech to become part of 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.440 that discussion. He wants doctors to be kind of giving 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.400 parents a heads up that you know, these are healthy habits, 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.440 but this might be too much for your child who's 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.840 only X number of years old. Um. And for and 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.120 for parents to be aware of the fact that, yes, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.399 tech is having an impact on the way the child 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.560 is developing. It's interesting as a parent, I mean, you're 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:55.760 just you know, I kind of feel like I'm in 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.280 the dark a little bit. Kids are drawn to the 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:03.440 technology offer and instead of TV or like conventional toys. Um, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.240 some of the some of the games they play seem 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.600 like they're pretty stimulating. But sometimes the hours they're spending 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.879 staring into a screen can feel a little recome. And 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.679 that's something that Apple, for example, has just decided it's 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.960 going to take some action on to help parents limit 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.399 the amount of time that their kids spend on their devices, right, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.959 they made They made some announcements at their recent developers conference. Um. Well, 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.040 the main new feature that's going to come in the 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:31.919 next version of the iPhone operating system that's iOS twelve. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.840 The main software it's called screen Time, and it will 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.000 help people track how long they're spending on their own devices. 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.840 Apples planning to break that out by apps, so you 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.320 can see how much time you've spent on Facebook versus 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.520 your emails, for example. Um. But then for parents, you'll 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:48.679 also be able to see how much time your children 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.000 are spending on their devices, and you'll be able to 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.960 set time limits or even set kind of off off 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.920 limits time when your kids can't use their devices at all. 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.600 And what what does Dr Rich think about what Apple 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.040 announced stuff? Well, actually I had a chance to ask 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.360 him about that because I was with him in Boston 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.480 when Apple made those announcements. Do you think the stuff 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.680 Apple announced yesterday is going to be helpful? I think 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.560 it's a move in the right direction. I think that 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:20.560 what I'm hopeful of is that the tech companies and 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:25.520 media makers will see the information we have on how 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.439 we're changed by our media as something that will allow 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:32.080 them to evolve their product to the next step where 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.679 they're dealing with the second bottom line of of social 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:40.639 and individual outcomes, not just profit, and to recognize and 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.159 not deny that the media have an effect on us 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.560 they do. I think this is going to require a 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.640 major ce change in the way they do business, which 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.439 has been very much proprietary and very much, you know, 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:55.120 behind closed doors. But I think that there's a good 0:21:55.160 --> 0:22:00.159 possibility that that's the solution for this current suspicion and 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:06.440 concerned about what these products are doing and how they 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:08.840 are affecting kids in the way they grow up. So 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.639 it's interesting that Apple is being responsive to the letters 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.560 sent by shareholders and to what folks like Dr Rich 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.960 are saying, Pa, do you think they're authentic and wanting 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.280 to solve the problem or or do they just want 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.560 to avoid getting blamed. I mean, it's interesting Apple has 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:26.960 been ahead of the curve on some issues like privacy, 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.680 for example. At the same time, I guess Apple must 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:31.840 be sort of looking at the way the kind of 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.760 press coverage that some of their big tech competitors are 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:38.359 getting in in the press right now, and you know, 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.560 maybe they're they're deciding this is an issue they want 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.760 to get out in front of UM. It's interesting. Other 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.680 other tech companies like Amazon, for example, have recently rolled 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:52.280 out some kind of child friendly parent controls UM for 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.600 their Echo devices, and it could be that Apple is 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:57.560 kind of realizing they're going to have to follow suit. 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.480 You know, Apple is so good at marking its devices 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:03.720 and some of the big features of its devices. It 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:07.399 will be interesting to see if they advertise some of 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.240 these new tools to limit the use of their devices. UM. 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:17.400 I guess we'll I guess we'll see. So what's next 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.440 for Jared? Well, for now, Jared is still making regular 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.320 visits to Dr Rich and with the school here ending soon, 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.600 Jared's looking for a summer job. Jared and Dr Rich 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.000 came up with the idea of becoming a camp counselor. 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.600 That caused some anxiety for his mom. And then the 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.520 other thing is I think it would be great if 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.800 we could get him a job. Yeah, I think so too. 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:42.639 You think you could be a counselor that camp, the 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:46.320 camp he was a c I ta, why not? He's 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.200 going to be miserable. I don't want him going to no, 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.159 hold going back, hold on, hold On. By the end 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:54.720 of the session, Jen had agreed to let Jared apply 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.000 for the camp counselor role, and because Jared's grades are improving, 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:00.280 He's been chosen for a school trip to the Okay 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:05.040 next year. So I'm excited. I'm I'm a little concerned 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.480 because it's like the farthest I've been away from home. Um, 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:10.600 I'm not going to be with family, so that's kind 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:15.520 of scary for me. But I'm mentally preparing myself for it. 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:23.480 And Michael Rich is working on getting the word out 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:25.960 to more parents about how to raise kids in the 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:32.040 digital age. I would um reassure parents that parenting is 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:34.440 more of an art than a science, and that all 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:37.600 the science we bring to bear on it just helps 0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:41.200 that art be better. So they shouldn't approach this as 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:44.199 something that they feel they've failed because they've given their 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.440 kids a smartphone or a Facebook account or something like this, 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:51.920 but as something we can always be perfecting, even though 0:24:52.000 --> 0:25:09.199 we're imperfect at it. Yeah, and that's it for this 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:12.600 week's episode of Decrypted. Thanks for listening. If you'd like 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:15.000 to get in contact with Dr Rich, you can write 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:18.200 to him at Ask the Media Attrition. The link is 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:23.240 c m h dot TV. Forward slash of parents, forward Slash, 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:26.360 ask the Mediatrician, and let us know what you thought 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:29.520 of the show. You can email us at decrypted at 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:33.240 bloomberg dot net or I'm on Twitter at pa Gadkari 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:36.600 and I'm at brad Stone. If you have it already, 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:38.960