1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, I went to Boston to 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: meet a doctor named Michael Rich. I was sitting in 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: a large atrium inside Boston Children's Hospital with one of 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: his patients, a fifteen year old called Jared and his 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: mom Jen. I'm using only their first names for reasons 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: that will become obvious. Good to see you, a guest. 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: So are we all doing this? How are we doing this? 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: You're the boss, one on one one. Mom there? Who 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: do you want? It's up to you if you want 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: to be there. That's completely for Michael Rich is a 11 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: pediatrician who specializes in the way as online media can 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: affect kids, and he's been seeing Jared because of his 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: relationship with video games, especially multiplayer games like Minecraft and 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat. Where do you feel your gaming is getting 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: in the way now? Is it getting in the way 16 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: or do you think you've got it balanced and managed? 17 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: I feel like I got it balanced, but not completely. 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: There's define only still improvement, Like if it's staying up 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: until a certain hour still playing games, it's definitely something 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: to work upon. For a while, Jared was playing video 21 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: games NonStop, but he was also suffering from anxiety and depression. 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: When I was so addicted to the media, I had 23 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: a hard time coming out of my room communicating with people. 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: I would get consumed into the game and I wouldn't 25 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: really have a sense of time, and I would sometimes 26 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: be playing for hours without noticing it. Gaming started to 27 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: eat up a bigger and bigger part of Jared's life, 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: until it eventually threatened to spin out of control. That's 29 00:01:53,680 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: when his family decided to get help. Hi. I'm brad 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: Stone and I'm Pagatari, and this week on Decrypted, we're 31 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: taking a look at a phenomenon widely called addiction to technology. 32 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: But some kids, the Internet is a new kind of sanctuary, 33 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: a place where they know their parents can't track them. 34 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: But for others, screen time can become compulsive, even harmful, 35 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: particularly if they're already prone to anxiety or mood disorders. 36 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: Now some people are raising the alarm with the tech 37 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: companies themselves, saying the industry needs to make sure it's 38 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: most successful products aren't harming its most vulnerable users, and 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: some companies might finally be paying attention to stay with us. 40 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: I met Jen in the lobby of my hotel the 41 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: day before Jared's appointment with Michael rich. Jen is lively, 42 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: cracking jokes and laughing a lot. But I could feel 43 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: the emotion as she started talking about her son. He's 44 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: a great kid and he's loving. He's so sweet. He 45 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: is very friendly. He shy. Jared is on the spectrum. 46 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: He has Asperger's um. He's brillant. He's very smart, she said. 47 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: Jared always loved playing with computers, and from a very 48 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: young age he was really good at using them. You know, 49 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: as he got older, if you didn't know how to 50 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: do something, you would ask your four or five and 51 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: six year old, you know, excuse me, can you show 52 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,839 Speaker 1: me how to fix this on the computer, And he'd 53 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: come over and just, you know, tap away, and he'd 54 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: fix it. Jared got his first tablet when he was 55 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: ten years old, and a cell phone about two years later. 56 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: He'd spend a lot of time playing video games like 57 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog with his little brother 58 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: on the family we But in his preteen years, Jared's 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: taste in games that started to change and he would 60 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: spend more time playing on his own. I started getting 61 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: more into fighting games, like certain games where there would 62 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: be like you could play as a character and you 63 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: would fight against a bunch of other people, not around 64 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: the world, but you would fight against computers like um 65 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat. I started getting into that when I was 66 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: somewhere around seventh grade. Jared would spend more and more 67 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: time gaming, and his parents started to notice changes in 68 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: Jared's behavior. If I would tell him to shut it off, 69 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: he would become so angry, and that's not the kid 70 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: he is. He would tantrum um and just get very 71 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: bitter and very angry and lash out. The games were 72 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: becoming all consuming, many of them, like a multiplayer game 73 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: called Minecraft, a social there are other players all joining 74 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: remotely from their own computers, and this became a way 75 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: for Jared to connect with other people. And I think 76 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: that's why Jared liked it so much. Because Jared has 77 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: Asperger's and he has a UM he has social anxiety, 78 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: but he also has a social deficit, so he felt 79 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: more comfortable talking and communicating if the people weren't right 80 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: there in front of him. And that's how he met 81 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: a lot of the people that he would talk to 82 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: and you know, would call his friends because they'd get 83 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: on the computer every afternoon and night and morning and 84 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: play and talk and talk and play and play and 85 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: play and talk. But Jared's moods got worse as he 86 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: went through middle school and he started spending even more 87 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: time online. I noticed he would start staying in his 88 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: room longer. Um. You know, if I would walk into 89 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: his room, he shut the computer down, or UM he 90 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: would switch screens. UM became very secretive. His parents didn't 91 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: know it at the time, but Jared had started visiting 92 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: porn sites, all easily available to him online. One night, 93 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: things came to a head. So one night I went 94 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: to check on the kids before I went to bed 95 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: and make sure the TVs wore off whatever UM, and 96 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: I noticed UM like a light underneath Jared's door, So 97 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: I turned. I opened the door and Jared was not 98 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: asleep and his tablet was on the bed. So I 99 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: went over to grab the tablet and turn it off, 100 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: and there was a porn video playing. So I grabbed 101 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: the tablet and Jared immediately jumped up, and I grabbed 102 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: the tablet and immediately ran into the kitchen and grabbed 103 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: a hammer and shattered it. At first Jared, he immediately 104 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: said that he has a problem, he can't help it. 105 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: And my response to that was your problem is is 106 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: that you got caught and that's the only problem you have. 107 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: But that didn't solve Jared's problem. Even after the tablet 108 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: was gone, he kept plowing hours into video games. He 109 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: was still depressed, and one day Jen found a note 110 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: Jared had scribbled on a napkin that revealed Jared was 111 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: thinking about hurting himself. And then Jen got a call 112 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: from Jared's school Jared had harmed himself in the school bathrooms. 113 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: Jen started looking for help for Jared. He'd been seeing 114 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: a therapist, but that therapist had told Jen the constant 115 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: gaming was just a phase and hadn't taken it seriously. 116 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: I didn't want my child to end up being, you know, 117 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: um on a wall in a police department or a 118 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: post office when he grew up. I didn't want him 119 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: to be a statistic like that. She pulled him out 120 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: of school and enrolled him in a day program for 121 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: three weeks. It helped, but Jared's self esteem was still low. 122 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: He was still grappling with his depression and still spent 123 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: most of his time online. That's when a recommendation from 124 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: a coworker put Jen in touch with a new doctor, 125 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: Michael Rich. Dr Rich is energetic, with silver hair and 126 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: a quick smile. He's a professa at Harvard Medical School 127 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: and specializes in something he calls PAIEMU, problematic interactive media use. 128 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: Fifteen years ago he found at the Center on Media 129 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: and Child Health to study it, so he prefers not 130 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: to describe it as an addiction. Dr Rich said, it's 131 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: medically inaccurate, and more importantly for me as a pediatrician, 132 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: is the stigma we attached to the word addict or addiction. 133 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: We think of bums on skid row or junkies in 134 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: a shooting gallery. We don't think about our ten year 135 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: old who's flipping out because he has to stop playing 136 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: Fortnite and go to bed. Dr Rich says he sees 137 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: four main categories of harmful media use. There's gaming, which 138 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: affects mostly boys, social media, which affects mostly girls, and 139 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: then pawn and information binging. Right, that's where you might 140 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: get lost watching one YouTube video after another. Porn and 141 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: information binging affect boys and girls more or less equally. 142 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: For many of Dr Rich's patients, things had to get 143 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: really serious before their families decided to seek out medical help. 144 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: But he said it's a slippery slope. Many children are 145 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: being affected by their use of technology, just less severely. 146 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: We are distracted all the time by that little buzz 147 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: sometimes a fan on buzz in our pocket, right, and 148 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: and so we behave with each other very differently than 149 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: we used to. We can't get into an elevator without 150 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: looking at our phone, or onto a bus or whatever. 151 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: We don't look at each other. We don't talk to 152 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: each other. People don't um observe personal space the same way. 153 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: Six study from the organization Common Sense Media found that 154 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: half of teenagers felt addicted to their devices and said 155 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: they checked their devices at least once an hour. But 156 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: because there's very little awareness of how serious this problem 157 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: can get, some parents may not even notice it. They 158 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: might chalk it up to something else, like bad behavior. 159 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: I think that many, many kids are somewhere on a 160 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: continuum of doing this instead of things that would probably 161 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: be better for them, like taking a walk in the woods, 162 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: or kicking a ball around the backyard, or beating up 163 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: your little brother even you know, because at least that's 164 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: a little social emotional growth. Dr Rich told me something 165 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: else that's interesting. Tim affects some children more than others. 166 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: We have yet to find a young person who does 167 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: not have a known psychiatric or psychological dysfunction that may 168 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: have never expressed itself until it got into the digital space. 169 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: In other words, I am not convinced that these are 170 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: standalone diagnoses, so the technology itself isn't causing the problem. 171 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: The kids who are most negatively affected by technology are 172 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: the ones who have an under lying condition that could 173 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: be attention deficit disorder, anxiety depression. Dr Rich described them 174 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: as mood disorders or relational problems. He said, sometimes children 175 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: are drawn to online media because it's a coping mechanism 176 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: for them. What we're seeing is that, for example, kids 177 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: who have a problem with gaming often have problems with attention, 178 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: and in a way, the computer video game is a 179 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: much safer space than the chaos of real life because 180 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: it gives you a very circumscribed universe with a set 181 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: of clear rules that don't change. The classroom is chaos, right, 182 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: someone's talking over here, there's a bird flying there, you know, 183 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: the teachers of droning on at the blackboard. Someone threw 184 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: a spitball and hitch in the back of the head. 185 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: You know, all of that stuff is going on, and 186 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: that's very hard to manage. So the computer or the 187 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: video game, which is in fact a computer, is an 188 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: environment in which they are masters. Sometimes, like in Jared's case, 189 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: the child's condition may have already been diagnosed, but Dr 190 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: Rich said that he also sees cases when nobody knew 191 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: about the underlying condition until the child started over using technology. 192 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: And once kids get in the habit of spending a 193 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: lot of time online, it can be really difficult to 194 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: stop playing or put the device down. That's because online 195 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: media is interactive, which makes it different from other kinds 196 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: of content. A video game that is violent is very 197 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: different than a movie or a television show that is 198 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: violent in that it asks, in fact demands, that the 199 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: player do the violence as opposed to simply witness it. 200 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: That it rewards doing violence better and it punishes doing 201 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: violence less well, which is interesting because technology companies deliberately 202 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: design their products this way. The kid gets involved in 203 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: a situation where the game keeps sucking him back in. 204 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: These games are very sophisticatedly designed to frustrate you just 205 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: enough until you succeed and you get that little sport 206 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: of dopamine, and I've succeeded, and your reward is to 207 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: get to do it again, but a little bit harder, 208 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: so you're frustrated again, and it draws you back in 209 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: and constantly grabs you back in. Social media operates in 210 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: a similar way that feeling of reward comes from seeing 211 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: people liking and sharing your posts. Recently, we've started seeing 212 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: the first signs of the public and people in the 213 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: tech industry are feeling uneasy about this state of affairs. 214 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: In January, to Apple shareholders, the investment firm Jana Partners 215 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: and Coasters that's the pension fund for teachers in California, 216 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: wrote a letter to Apple calling on the company to 217 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: develop features that would help parents control how their children 218 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: use Apple's devices. They also asked Apple to study the 219 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: impact of their devices on children more carefully, and it 220 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: seems like Apple might have started to listen. Back at 221 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: the hospital, Jared has been visiting Dr Rich regularly for 222 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: over a year. Jared's tall with big brown eyes, your 223 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: regular teenager in a ball cap and check shirt. What 224 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: can I help with I've actually been doing better with 225 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: my medication. I'm taking it more often without um, mom 226 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: or dad reminding me. Like for the past few weeks, 227 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: I've been really really Rich has been treating Jared in 228 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: part with medication to reduce his anxiety and improve his concentration, 229 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: but he's also helping Jared develop better habits. How are 230 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: you feeling about taking it? Because I know that you 231 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: had sort of mixed feelings about I still don't like 232 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: taking it, but it's just the fact out it's going 233 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: to help me rom and you're noticing and helping you, 234 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: because I'm noticing and helping you, but I want to 235 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: make sure you do. I'm feeling less anxious over things, 236 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: but I can definitely still tell that my depression will 237 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: act up sometimes, but it's gonna take time for that 238 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: to really adjust. So being responsible for taking his medicine 239 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: is one of those good habits. Dr Rich is also 240 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: helping Jared prioritize his time, so he does his homework 241 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: first and plays video games later. The week when I 242 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: was visiting, they were working on setting a regular bedtime. 243 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: Sleep is the number one thing that suffers with the gaming. 244 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: You know, UM, not just because you're staying up late 245 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: to game, but you're also doing something that's really stimulating 246 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: and arousing UM. And so even when you stop, it 247 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: takes a while to wind down from that to to 248 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: get to sleep. I've actually been going to bed earlier, 249 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: but what I've been noticing is that I'm waking up later. 250 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: That's because your body is saying, oh, I'm getting more sleep. 251 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: I like this. We've talked a little bit about how 252 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: you need more sleep as a teenager than you did 253 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: as a little kid. But Jared isn't the only one 254 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: who's learning to adjust. Halfway through, Dr Rich went and 255 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: brought Jared's mom, Jen into the appointment room. So how 256 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: do you think he's doing. I think he's doing good. 257 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: It's still a work in progress, aren't we. I admit 258 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: that myself. Yeah, he said that straight up front. He 259 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: feels like it's improved, that he's got more work to do. 260 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: Dr Rich often talks about the concept of digital parenting. 261 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: He says it's important for parents to engage with what 262 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: their kids are doing online, even though it can sometimes 263 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: be overwhelming or scary for the parent. They feel that 264 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: their kids are so much more facile with these devices 265 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: and with these environments, um that they don't understand that 266 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: they often check out of parenting in the digital space, 267 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: and so the internet and interactive media runs the risk 268 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: of becoming rock and roll in the sense of it's 269 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: something mom and dad don't understand, it's something mom and 270 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: dad hate. How cool is that he wants parents to 271 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: learn how to participate in their children's online activity. What 272 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: I do recommend they do is, instead of saying I 273 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: hate that, turn it off or wag of finger, is 274 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: to sit down and play the video game with their child, 275 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 1: or go on social media with their child. Um And 276 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: just as you wouldn't just toss the car keys at 277 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: a twelve year old say have at it, or give 278 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: a six year old power saw, we need to give 279 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: them these tools when they are both in need of 280 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: the tool and responsible enough to use it wisely. So, Peter, 281 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: this seems like good advice. But as we said earlier, 282 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: awareness among parents is pretty low. So how do we 283 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: fix that. One thing Dr Rich is working on is 284 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: something he calls anticipatory guidance. That means he wants to 285 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: rain other doctors, other pediatricians about how they should be 286 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: talking to the parents of their young patients about what 287 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: to expect as their children grow up and start using technology. Okay, 288 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: so I'm a I'm a parent of young kids, so 289 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: how how might my kids doctor start talking to me differently? 290 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: About their tech use. Okay, well, when your kids see 291 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: their pediatrician for their annual check up, let's say, Um, 292 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: your doctor might talk to you about things like vaccination, nutrition, 293 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: you know how much weight your kids might gain. Right and, 294 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: by the way, tech never comes up in that discussion, right, 295 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: And and Dr Rich wants tech to become part of 296 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: that discussion. He wants doctors to be kind of giving 297 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: parents a heads up that you know, these are healthy habits, 298 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: but this might be too much for your child who's 299 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: only X number of years old. Um. And for and 300 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: for parents to be aware of the fact that, yes, 301 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: tech is having an impact on the way the child 302 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: is developing. It's interesting as a parent, I mean, you're 303 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: just you know, I kind of feel like I'm in 304 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: the dark a little bit. Kids are drawn to the 305 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: technology offer and instead of TV or like conventional toys. Um, 306 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: some of the some of the games they play seem 307 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: like they're pretty stimulating. But sometimes the hours they're spending 308 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: staring into a screen can feel a little recome. And 309 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: that's something that Apple, for example, has just decided it's 310 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: going to take some action on to help parents limit 311 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: the amount of time that their kids spend on their devices, right, 312 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 1: they made They made some announcements at their recent developers conference. Um. Well, 313 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: the main new feature that's going to come in the 314 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: next version of the iPhone operating system that's iOS twelve. 315 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: The main software it's called screen Time, and it will 316 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: help people track how long they're spending on their own devices. 317 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: Apples planning to break that out by apps, so you 318 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: can see how much time you've spent on Facebook versus 319 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: your emails, for example. Um. But then for parents, you'll 320 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: also be able to see how much time your children 321 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: are spending on their devices, and you'll be able to 322 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: set time limits or even set kind of off off 323 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: limits time when your kids can't use their devices at all. 324 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: And what what does Dr Rich think about what Apple 325 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: announced stuff? Well, actually I had a chance to ask 326 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: him about that because I was with him in Boston 327 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: when Apple made those announcements. Do you think the stuff 328 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: Apple announced yesterday is going to be helpful? I think 329 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: it's a move in the right direction. I think that 330 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: what I'm hopeful of is that the tech companies and 331 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: media makers will see the information we have on how 332 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: we're changed by our media as something that will allow 333 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: them to evolve their product to the next step where 334 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: they're dealing with the second bottom line of of social 335 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: and individual outcomes, not just profit, and to recognize and 336 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: not deny that the media have an effect on us 337 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: they do. I think this is going to require a 338 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: major ce change in the way they do business, which 339 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: has been very much proprietary and very much, you know, 340 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: behind closed doors. But I think that there's a good 341 00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: possibility that that's the solution for this current suspicion and 342 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: concerned about what these products are doing and how they 343 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: are affecting kids in the way they grow up. So 344 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: it's interesting that Apple is being responsive to the letters 345 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: sent by shareholders and to what folks like Dr Rich 346 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: are saying, Pa, do you think they're authentic and wanting 347 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: to solve the problem or or do they just want 348 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: to avoid getting blamed. I mean, it's interesting Apple has 349 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: been ahead of the curve on some issues like privacy, 350 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: for example. At the same time, I guess Apple must 351 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: be sort of looking at the way the kind of 352 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: press coverage that some of their big tech competitors are 353 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: getting in in the press right now, and you know, 354 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: maybe they're they're deciding this is an issue they want 355 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: to get out in front of UM. It's interesting. Other 356 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: other tech companies like Amazon, for example, have recently rolled 357 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: out some kind of child friendly parent controls UM for 358 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: their Echo devices, and it could be that Apple is 359 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: kind of realizing they're going to have to follow suit. 360 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: You know, Apple is so good at marking its devices 361 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: and some of the big features of its devices. It 362 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: will be interesting to see if they advertise some of 363 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: these new tools to limit the use of their devices. UM. 364 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: I guess we'll I guess we'll see. So what's next 365 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: for Jared? Well, for now, Jared is still making regular 366 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: visits to Dr Rich and with the school here ending soon, 367 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: Jared's looking for a summer job. Jared and Dr Rich 368 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: came up with the idea of becoming a camp counselor. 369 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: That caused some anxiety for his mom. And then the 370 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: other thing is I think it would be great if 371 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: we could get him a job. Yeah, I think so too. 372 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: You think you could be a counselor that camp, the 373 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: camp he was a c I ta, why not? He's 374 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: going to be miserable. I don't want him going to no, 375 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: hold going back, hold on, hold On. By the end 376 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: of the session, Jen had agreed to let Jared apply 377 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: for the camp counselor role, and because Jared's grades are improving, 378 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: He's been chosen for a school trip to the Okay 379 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: next year. So I'm excited. I'm I'm a little concerned 380 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: because it's like the farthest I've been away from home. Um, 381 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be with family, so that's kind 382 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: of scary for me. But I'm mentally preparing myself for it. 383 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: And Michael Rich is working on getting the word out 384 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: to more parents about how to raise kids in the 385 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: digital age. I would um reassure parents that parenting is 386 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: more of an art than a science, and that all 387 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: the science we bring to bear on it just helps 388 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: that art be better. So they shouldn't approach this as 389 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: something that they feel they've failed because they've given their 390 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: kids a smartphone or a Facebook account or something like this, 391 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: but as something we can always be perfecting, even though 392 00:24:52,000 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: we're imperfect at it. Yeah, and that's it for this 393 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: week's episode of Decrypted. Thanks for listening. If you'd like 394 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: to get in contact with Dr Rich, you can write 395 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: to him at Ask the Media Attrition. The link is 396 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: c m h dot TV. Forward slash of parents, forward Slash, 397 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: ask the Mediatrician, and let us know what you thought 398 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: of the show. You can email us at decrypted at 399 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: bloomberg dot net or I'm on Twitter at pa Gadkari 400 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: and I'm at brad Stone. If you have it already, 401 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: please take a moment to rate and review our show. 402 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: It really helps us find new listeners. This episode was 403 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: produced by TOFA forehead Liz Smith and Magnus Hendrickson, and 404 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: edited by Anne vander May. A special thanks to Jen 405 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: and Jared for telling us their story. Francesco Levi is 406 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: head of Bloomberg Podcasts. We'll see you next week.