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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is They called me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer Ball,

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Speaker 1: mission controlled decans. Most importantly, you are you. You are here,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. We are back, fellow conspiracy realists, well still here,

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Speaker 1: never left, but we're all at least in the same

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Speaker 1: city for now. Over the past weeks, folks, your faithful

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Speaker 1: correspondence have been all over the place. In fact, some

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Speaker 1: of us are on the road again tomorrow as we record,

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Speaker 1: and all of us will be traveling together for a

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Speaker 1: little book tour in October. You can find the link

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Speaker 1: in our description wherever you find podcasts. Get some tickets.

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Speaker 1: Let's see where where we had a We're going to

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Speaker 1: d C, I think Massachusetts right and right here in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: We'll give you the dates really quick if you want

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Speaker 1: to write them down, or you can just go to

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Speaker 1: the link. Tuesday, October eleven, we will be at Eagle

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Speaker 1: Eye Books for a special appearance an event with a

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Speaker 1: book on Thursday October will be at sixth and I

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Speaker 1: that's s I x T H and the letter I

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And on Friday, October four we

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Speaker 1: will be in Plainville, Massachusetts at this awesome place called

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Speaker 1: an Unlikely Story. I love that name. And also for

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Speaker 1: everyone who has written to us, uh, like written written

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Speaker 1: to me personally or written to us as a show

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Speaker 1: and said, hey, when are you guys going to go

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Speaker 1: to in search city? Here? Right to our bosses make

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Speaker 1: a stink. We got your back and let's go. Let's

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Speaker 1: go further into the rabbit hole. Uh. Today, despite our travel,

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Speaker 1: we have to admit Matt Noel and I we have

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Speaker 1: nothing on the movers and shakers of today's episode. Cartels,

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Speaker 1: specifically drug cartels. Wait, there's more, specifically illegal drug cartels.

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Speaker 1: Because yes, your local big farm of folks are a cartel. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Today's question how close are these criminal organizations to becoming

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Speaker 1: even more powerful, as powerful as say a government or

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Speaker 1: an international corporation. The answers will surprise you. So here

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Speaker 1: are the facts. First, what do you guys think? Quick

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Speaker 1: recap on cartels? What is a cartel in general terms, Well,

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Speaker 1: the cartel is in general terms, as you said, ben, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a group of different businesses entities really that work

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Speaker 1: together as one too. This is the main thing, control

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Speaker 1: prices of whatever the product it is that they are

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Speaker 1: selling or and or buying, and dictating the supply where

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Speaker 1: that stuff is available and when it's available. You might

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Speaker 1: have also heard the term syndicate seems sort of similar

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Speaker 1: to that. Syndicate and cartels also both seem to have

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Speaker 1: kind of nefarious, shadowy connotations, right, like a crime syndicate

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Speaker 1: or a drug cartel. Yep. And it should be noted

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Speaker 1: that when we're talking about controlling prices that that's really

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things. It could be controlling the

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Speaker 1: raw products that go into making the thing, the actual

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Speaker 1: widgit or whatever it is that they sell, or in

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Speaker 1: this case cocaine, or just controlling the end price and

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Speaker 1: then manipulating stuff on the inside in the earlier processes

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Speaker 1: to create cocaine, play with the variables and uh, and

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Speaker 1: see if you can get the equation you desire. Look, yeah,

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Speaker 1: cartels are not always criminal organizations inherently, but when they

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Speaker 1: get powerful enough, they inevitably take actions that might be

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Speaker 1: considered crimes unless they control the mechanisms of government, which

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Speaker 1: is oh, this might be a two parter. All right, Look,

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Speaker 1: so OPEC, that's a famous cartel. Their thing is in Cocaya,

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Speaker 1: their thing is oil and petroleum products, and they run

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Speaker 1: the game. Then there was earlier we talked about this

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Speaker 1: in episodes on things like planned obs lessons. There was

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Speaker 1: the Phoebus cartel. Uh, this was a kind of a

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I get where they were coming from.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a kind of a weak name.

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Speaker 1: But they're the reason lightbulbs are crappy right now. They're

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Speaker 1: the reason they are the reason, they were the reason

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Speaker 1: they made a lot of money selling you and your

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Speaker 1: ancestors bad light bulbs. Well that's why filament light bulbs

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Speaker 1: are bad, Ben. But those new led suckers they're pretty good,

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Speaker 1: right until an l e ed cartel comes into play.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, you know it wasn't too long ago,

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Speaker 1: guys when we learned that maple Syrup of all things

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Speaker 1: is controlled by an actual facts cartel. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: our good friend Lauren Vogel bamb host of brain Stuff,

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Speaker 1: host of Savor for introducing us to the term actual facts.

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Speaker 1: UH talked to Lauren earlier. She confirmed it is indeed

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Speaker 1: all one word. But yeah, maple syrup, there's a cartel

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Speaker 1: controlled it. That's why it's all. It's all befuddled here.

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Speaker 1: But if we are being honest, the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: people in North and South America associate the word cartel

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Speaker 1: with one thing crime, more specifically illegal drugs, smuggling drugs

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Speaker 1: and all the related crimes associated did with the acts

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Speaker 1: of handling and profiting from substances that a giving government

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Speaker 1: considers illegal. So look, cartels are everywhere. You're listening. In Cambodia,

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Speaker 1: there's a cartel. You're listening in Singapore. They're very wealthy cartels,

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Speaker 1: some of those in fact or trading and banking cartels.

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Speaker 1: You're listening wherever Omahawk, Kansas, plain View, Massachusetts. You are

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Speaker 1: around and in some ways affected by some sort of cartel.

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Speaker 1: But today's episode focuses on Mexico. Let's head there, right,

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Speaker 1: because I think when most of the people in the

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Speaker 1: US think of cartels, they're thinking of drug cartels, and

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Speaker 1: they're probably thinking of Mexican drug cartels. Would you guys

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Speaker 1: agree with that? And you'll you'll you may even know

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Speaker 1: some of the proper names you may remember like Sinola,

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Speaker 1: Cartel or Zantas where that was a really big one

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Speaker 1: in the news for a while and then it kind

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Speaker 1: of goes way and you forget about them. But there

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Speaker 1: there are a ton, there are there are a lot

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Speaker 1: and drugs. You know, there's a reason drugs have been

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Speaker 1: a part of human history forever. Right since we've been around.

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Speaker 1: We've been trying substances and what is this gonna do?

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Speaker 1: Whole buddy, Those mushrooms were different. But the history of

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Speaker 1: the United States has this really interesting uh relationship with

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Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol. M Yeah, well back into the eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: even uh, prior to the formation of the United States

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Speaker 1: as an entity, there were smugglers. They were not necessarily

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Speaker 1: breaking laws or committing what you would consider felonies today.

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Speaker 1: They were just trying to get around paying taxes for stuff.

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Speaker 1: But still, trafficking is trafficking, and it doesn't matter whether

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Speaker 1: you're talking about opium or cocaine or cannabis. A variety

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Speaker 1: of substances have been illegally import it had sold and

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Speaker 1: distributed throughout U S history, often with devastating consequences. Um

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Speaker 1: Like think about the turbulent era of opium debts. Okay says,

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Speaker 1: the US opium surprise might be kind of a problem.

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Speaker 1: So let's make certain places legal, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: the cafe cannabis approach that Amsterdam took in the Netherlands.

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Speaker 1: This didn't work. People were getting addicted to opium. They

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Speaker 1: were branching out to other opiates. During the Civil War,

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Speaker 1: in particular, the widespread use of morphine as an anesthetic

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Speaker 1: lad to morphine addiction. This happened again in the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 1: But after the Civil War, government gears started turning and clicking.

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Speaker 1: That's where we find something a few years later, well

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Speaker 1: many decades later, uh, because government takes forever the US

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Speaker 1: about with something they called the Harrison Act of nineteen fourteen.

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Speaker 1: The Harrison Act is important for this story because it

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Speaker 1: outlaws for the first time opium and cocaine cocaine UH

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Speaker 1: for non medical purposes. So at this point in nineteen

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Speaker 1: in the United States, you're a note from a doctor

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Speaker 1: away from getting all the nose candy, all the all

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Speaker 1: the green dragon you want. But this, this move towards

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Speaker 1: um somewhat regulating these substances. It doesn't do anything illicit

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Speaker 1: drugs continue to circulate, and criminal organizations realize this can

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Speaker 1: be a revenue stream. Why would you Why would you

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Speaker 1: bother really with illegal gambling at the dog track or whatever,

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Speaker 1: when you know you have a guaranteed crazy profit margin

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Speaker 1: on things the government doesn't want you to buy. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got a diverse a fire right. You gotta get

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Speaker 1: a little human trafficking in there too. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: you gotta make sure you're diversified when you're a cartel. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's interesting when you hear a lot of

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Speaker 1: the political posturing about the border, right when when anybody's

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Speaker 1: talking about the border, we gotta secure the borders and everything,

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Speaker 1: and you think about how poorous they really always have been,

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Speaker 1: about how much contraband flows across both ways, from the

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Speaker 1: United States to Mexico and the Mexico into the US. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's weird to think about. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: old school with some of this geopolitical stuff. The only

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Speaker 1: real borders that stand the test of time are geographic

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Speaker 1: borders mountains, rivers, oceans, in hospitable lands, stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Everything else is just a conversation that a civilization has

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Speaker 1: with itself. So it should be no surprise that those

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Speaker 1: are not as effective as the real borders of the world.

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Speaker 1: Cartels today, it turns out they do a lot of homework.

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Speaker 1: They're not good people, but they are not unintelligent people.

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Speaker 1: And cartels today, oh a lot of thanks to things

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Speaker 1: like the mafia. Things you know, like the Italian like

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Speaker 1: in Deragata all that, the the Italian mafioso who they

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Speaker 1: they paved the way for organized criminal activity in the

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Speaker 1: United States on the part of cartel's contraband has been

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Speaker 1: going across this Uh you you've nailed it, Matt. They've

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Speaker 1: been going across this poorous border from Mexico in the

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Speaker 1: US since forever, and that border has changed over time. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's gone multiple ways. Not for nothing. Is there a

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Speaker 1: stay called New Mexico. Think about it anyway. So the

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Speaker 1: so the the cartels or something like the cartels really

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Speaker 1: comes into being dairy. Uh, the great swinging a miss

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Speaker 1: of American policy prohibition. So yeah, alcohol is illegal as

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Speaker 1: long as the politicians can stumble to the booth and

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Speaker 1: vote for it. And these folks in a different country

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Speaker 1: across the border, criminal elements say hey, we can make alcohol.

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Speaker 1: We could just move it around and then they also

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Speaker 1: branch out, as he said, they diversify and they start

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Speaker 1: moving cannabis later and then they get into cocaine and

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Speaker 1: that's where the glory days of Narco traficonde begin. So

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Speaker 1: let's start with the Gulf Cartel, not the Golf Cartel.

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Speaker 1: That's that's different, but that that is a thing that's live.

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Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia just started it. Yeah. The Gulf Cartel is

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Speaker 1: a drug cartel. It's based in Matamorros, uh Tamua, Lipas, Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and it was founded in the nineteen thirties by Juan

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Speaker 1: Nepomucino Guerra UM. Originally known as the Matamorros Cartel or

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Speaker 1: Cartel de mantamoros Um. The Gulf Cartel initially started smuggling alcohol,

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Speaker 1: um and other illegal goods into the US. UM as

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Speaker 1: a result of prohibition, it opened up this black market,

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Speaker 1: as we know, like you know, far and wide domestically

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Speaker 1: and abroad. And because of those poorous borders you were

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Speaker 1: talking about, Matt, I mean, this was just a perfect opportunity,

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Speaker 1: uh to get in on the action here. Um. So

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Speaker 1: once prohibition ended, they needed something else to you know,

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Speaker 1: what their beaks with um. So this organization started to

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Speaker 1: dabble in controlling gambling operations, sex worker rings, UM, a

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Speaker 1: network of thieves that were like out stealing cars. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this really is kind of you know, low level mafios

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Speaker 1: type activity in terms of the what's the word diversification

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Speaker 1: of crime that they are working with UM and other

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Speaker 1: you know, other smuggling operations. Did you guys see in

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Speaker 1: the news? Is slightly off topic, everyone, I apologize, but

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Speaker 1: we're going over here. Recently in the news, two of

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Speaker 1: the major uh like mafia groups got busted recently in

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Speaker 1: New York for for doing the kind of front company

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Speaker 1: thing that we discussed in the past, where there's like

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Speaker 1: it looks like a nice little I think a soccer

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Speaker 1: club or a cafe, but in the back there's like

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Speaker 1: a serious gambling operation and they're they're funneling tons of

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Speaker 1: illegal money through their laundry. Wash your money, just just

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Speaker 1: wash your money. You know, I can't tell you, I

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Speaker 1: probably legally can't on air how many times I've just

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Speaker 1: happened by a little corner shop in some out of

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Speaker 1: the way neighborhood in your favorite cities, by the ways,

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Speaker 1: your realist just to like buy a coffee and they're surprised,

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Speaker 1: and I'm surprised to him, like I thought this was

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Speaker 1: a coffee shop and they're like, oh, yeah, no, we

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Speaker 1: got the coffee, and yeah right, and like no card payments,

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Speaker 1: only cash, and you don't have change. You want to

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Speaker 1: change for a twenty, that's fine, I got a ten.

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Speaker 1: You have to change for a ten. I'm starting to

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Speaker 1: think something's up, you know what I mean. Anyway, it

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Speaker 1: was good coffee. I'll just take the coffee. Just take

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Speaker 1: a free coffee. That's such a that's such a petty,

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Speaker 1: like Larry David's style hack, go into a place that's

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Speaker 1: obviously a drug front and just pretend that you don't

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Speaker 1: have exact change. They'll give you the coffee because they

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Speaker 1: don't want you hanging around. So anyway, your mileage me

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Speaker 1: very don't get shot. The birth of Mexico's major cartel,

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Speaker 1: like the major cartel period, you can trace it back

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Speaker 1: to the nineteen eighties. A guy named Miguel on Hell

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Speaker 1: Felix Guyardo who he was in Um he's sometimes called

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Speaker 1: like his street name, was the Godfather. He was the

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Speaker 1: countries like the Mexican connect. He was the plug with

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Speaker 1: the infamous Pablo Escobar, who came very close to assuming

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Speaker 1: political power in Colombia. Uh. You know, Pablo esk Bar,

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Speaker 1: the Medaine Cartel, all the hits, all the good ones. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This guy, Guyardo, goes underground when his partner in crime,

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Speaker 1: his writer die, a guy named Raphael Cato Kintaro, gets

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Speaker 1: arrested for the murder of a d A agent in

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Speaker 1: that's the Drug Enforcement Administration here in the States. And

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Speaker 1: so later this guy, after he's gone underground, he's inspired

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Speaker 1: to do something revolutionary. This is like the difference between

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Speaker 1: the Old and the New Testament. He goes to all

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Speaker 1: the narcos and he says, I extend to you an invitation.

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Speaker 1: You see the Godfather thing. He says, let's get together

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Speaker 1: and let's imagine them at a big like Vladimir Putin

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Speaker 1: esque style cartoonist table, Like it's a very long, big

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Speaker 1: table because there are a lot of dangerous people there.

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Speaker 1: And he says, okay, okay, guys, here's our deal. We're

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Speaker 1: going to divide up this country between us. We're going

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Speaker 1: to divide up the entirety of Mexico into different regions,

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Speaker 1: different areas. We'll call them plazas. And everybody gets to

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Speaker 1: say in what their territory is. So if you are

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Speaker 1: cartel A, you control this part of the country, this state,

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Speaker 1: or this region. Uh. This is a huge move and

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Speaker 1: it's one that all of the various players who are

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Speaker 1: not friends, by the way, recognize as an enormous opportunity.

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Speaker 1: And as history will later prove, a lot of them

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Speaker 1: just agreed because they were abiding their time to take

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Speaker 1: out the other gangs. But still this this solidified the

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Speaker 1: canonical players. This made the pantheon of cartels. This is

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Speaker 1: where we get stuff like the Sonola Federation or the

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Speaker 1: Ariano Felix Brothers on Tiajuana. It was gonna like make

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Speaker 1: a joke and I think, I don't think it would land,

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Speaker 1: But it feels like this guillard Do guy is the

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Speaker 1: Fred Hampton of the cartels. Like not in a bad

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Speaker 1: because it's not. It's a bad comparison, right, because that

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Speaker 1: would make you think that I imagine the Black Panther

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Speaker 1: Party for Self Defense and other groups like that as criminals.

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Speaker 1: But it's not. I just meant like this this concept

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Speaker 1: of this lightbelt, oh, this Phoebus cartel lightbulb that goes

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Speaker 1: off and you go, what if we all worked together

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um, yeah, that's perfect and and yes,

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Speaker 1: and you did clarify quite well. But you're right. There's

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Speaker 1: powering collectivism. Honestly, that's what they're realizing. And since that point,

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Speaker 1: drug words in Mexico and abroad, as you point out,

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Speaker 1: they have come and gone, and new groups have risen

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Speaker 1: to power as ephemeral loyalties fade and shift, as political

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Speaker 1: protection and patrons change. Killings and arrests, you know, they

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Speaker 1: leave vacuums in leadership and crime, just like nature a

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Speaker 1: boors a vacuum. In this quick and dirty history, already

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Speaker 1: we see a clear pattern. The criminals, like mafia and

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Speaker 1: bootleggers before them, found success by applying corporate tactics to crime,

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Speaker 1: by organizing their efforts, collectivizing, by demarcating their territory. They

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Speaker 1: sought consistency in their product. And most importantly, this is

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Speaker 1: a crazy thing. They realized two things. They said, Look,

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Speaker 1: we don't need to fight the law if we can

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Speaker 1: buy the law. You know, it's like a Sith version

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Speaker 1: of lobbying, which you know, lobbying is a Sith version

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Speaker 1: of lobbying. But and you point this out as well

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Speaker 1: a little earlier, you gotta diversify, diversify your funds. Right today,

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Speaker 1: cartels don't just run drugs. They pedal political influence. They've

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Speaker 1: got their hands or tentacles or or their firearms in

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Speaker 1: numerous front companies. They dabble in non drugs stuff. Avocados,

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Speaker 1: we talked about that, smuggling limes, also lines. Don't forget

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Speaker 1: the lines. They smuggle guns, they smuggle human beings. Uh hey,

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Speaker 1: the cartels seemed to say, get it straight, We're not

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Speaker 1: just about cocaine these days. And at some point we

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Speaker 1: have to ask our cartels now functionally corporations. More disturbingly,

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Speaker 1: could they one day use their power, brutality and influence

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Speaker 1: to not infiltrate, but to replace governments? Will pause for

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor cheers where it gets crazy? Um, yes, uh,

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Speaker 1: well what's the question again, Ben, could uh could cartels

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Speaker 1: replace a government? And are they functionally corporations? Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, correct, that's our show. Thanks everybody, Good game,

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Speaker 1: good game. I mean you're right, it's it's fascinating and

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Speaker 1: it's terrifying in equal parts. Yes, cartels, the ones that

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Speaker 1: are around now, the ones that have survived the eternal,

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Speaker 1: ongoing Game of Thrones and uh, what's that show succession?

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Speaker 1: They kind of do a succession thing. All of those

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Speaker 1: who have survived have survived because they behave increasingly like

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Speaker 1: legitimate corporations. And yes, folks, this is not a theory.

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Speaker 1: They could potentially replace elected governments, either in part it's

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Speaker 1: already happening or entirely. And this is where we want

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Speaker 1: to introduce one of the stars of our show today,

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Speaker 1: a journalist named Tom Wayne Wright. I love this guy.

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Speaker 1: I love his work, and uh, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: love it, but you should know about it. You should

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Speaker 1: know about it, especially if you feel like my day

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Speaker 1: is going too well. I'm having too much of a

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Speaker 1: good time. I need to pump the brakes on my happiness.

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Speaker 1: While Tom Wayne Wright is your dude. He pulls right

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Speaker 1: up to the curbains. Let me handle this, Tommy Wayne right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's me. This new is awesome. There's there's a great

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Speaker 1: interview you can find with him. Oh well, I know

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Speaker 1: it was MPR, but I can't remember Terry fresh Air

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Speaker 1: it was it was Fresh Air. Um, it's really really interview.

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Speaker 1: Should check out. He wrote an amazing book from his

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Speaker 1: his reporting that he was doing for the Economist for

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Speaker 1: a long time. Yeah, back in or Pal, Tom gets

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Speaker 1: a job with the Economists. It's prestigious. It's a prestigious magazine,

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Speaker 1: and it is a periodical that's entirely focused on macro

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Speaker 1: and micro economics, right, which inevitably touches politics. So Tom

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Speaker 1: is the Mexico correspondent, and he knows his remit as

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Speaker 1: he's going in. His job in Mexico is to cover

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Speaker 1: the biggest businesses in that country. So this is stuff

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Speaker 1: like the oil industry, which is big there. This is

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Speaker 1: stuff like maybe water banking, uh, mobile communications, tequila which

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Speaker 1: is still it's huge. Uh. And surprise, surprise, Tom, you

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Speaker 1: also have to cover another big business, the drug trade,

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Speaker 1: especially the illegal ones. Yeah. Right, Like this is the

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Speaker 1: point where we have to take a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a sidebar and ask how much money these cartels make. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're not above calling out calling out things

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Speaker 1: that need to be called out, So we have to

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Speaker 1: give a stuff they don't want you to know. Whompwamp

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Speaker 1: to Senator David Purdue from Georgia in Uh, let's just

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Speaker 1: do his quote. So Purdue told the Senate International Narcotics

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Speaker 1: Control Caucus, Uh, these operations were bigger than most people

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Speaker 1: could possibly imagine, and he stated the following at half

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Speaker 1: a trillion dollars five hundred billion, That makes the cartel

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Speaker 1: business and the drug traffic just in Mexico alone, coming

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Speaker 1: across the United States bigger than Walmarts. To put it

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Speaker 1: in perspective, So this is larger than our largest companies,

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Speaker 1: half a trillion dollars. Just think about all the yachts, guys,

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Speaker 1: copious yachts, so many yachts. Yeah, yachts are the pringles

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Speaker 1: of being a billionaire. You can never stop with one.

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Speaker 1: You just can't. There it is, I mean, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a crazy quote, right most most people and I

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Speaker 1: say this not as a ding, this is just not observation.

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Speaker 1: Most people will have a very difficult time grasping just

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Speaker 1: how much one billion dollars is, let alone five billion,

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Speaker 1: let alone a trillion dollars. US politicians, in case you're

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Speaker 1: listening you're not in the US, you should know our

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Speaker 1: folks are famous for convenient hyperble So we gotta unpack

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Speaker 1: this a little bit. The actual estimates about how much

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Speaker 1: money drug the drug trade makes, they're all over the place.

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Speaker 1: If you look at Mexico. You have to kind of

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Speaker 1: make an imaginary pie and then sort of eyeball what

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Speaker 1: you think Mexico's Cartel's slice of that pie is. So

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Speaker 1: it's really tricky. All the estimates are reverse engineered, and

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Speaker 1: they're they're kind of a they're kind of a cosmic combo.

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Speaker 1: If you will of will all right, you're on record,

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Speaker 1: he has Uh. They take they take different statistics that

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Speaker 1: can help them triangulate the whole picture. So you take

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Speaker 1: stuff like the street value of um how how is

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Speaker 1: cocaine most often sold? Is it sold by like Graham

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Speaker 1: metric systems? I think that would be like the the

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Speaker 1: base level on the univer You can get much less

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Speaker 1: than a Graham. I've always heard this, like, you get

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Speaker 1: a hundred dollars of cocaine, no matter what, no matter

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Speaker 1: what it is, no matter what, Yeah, no matter where cocaine,

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Speaker 1: you'll love it. Well, let's let's that's very good. Is

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Speaker 1: that your your your cocaine barker voice? We got yeah,

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Speaker 1: we got piles of it. But it's mommy's little help us,

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Speaker 1: come and get yourself. Uh No, you have to also

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Speaker 1: remember that, like the idea of weights, you know that

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Speaker 1: only applies to distributors and people that are really doing

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Speaker 1: the business, Like if you're buying street drugs, you're not

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Speaker 1: likely going to get you know, verification of the weight

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Speaker 1: or purity or even the guarantee that it won't just

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Speaker 1: kill you out right because it's got rat poise and

395
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: are fenel in it. Yeah, yeah, not for nothing do

396
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: people talk about stepping on the cane. So yeah, the

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Speaker 1: the estimates are coming instead from tangentially related things like

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Speaker 1: the street value of a given amount of given substance

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Speaker 1: or drug consumption rates, which are already really tricky because

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Speaker 1: when something's illegal, not a lot of people are going

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Speaker 1: to tell you they're doing it unless they, you know,

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Speaker 1: they have to um or they look at stuff that

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Speaker 1: might seem not as related, like the amount of US

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Speaker 1: dollars that are repatriated from Mexico to the United States. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: with all this, with this weird uh, this weird big stape,

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Speaker 1: the salad, this ghoulash of related statistics, what you find

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Speaker 1: is that since about two thousand and six, estimates have

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Speaker 1: varied widely. Experts will tell you that there is anything

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Speaker 1: from six billion to twenty nine billion US dollars worth

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Speaker 1: of value going through these Mexican cartels. Now, that might

411
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Speaker 1: not be a half a trillion dollars, but let's be honest,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot. The u N for a wider scope here,

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Speaker 1: the UN estimated back in two thousand eleven, they said

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Speaker 1: worldwide proceeds from drug trafficking and what they called transnational

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Speaker 1: organized crime were the equivalent of one point five of

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Speaker 1: the entire economic product of the human planet, one five

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Speaker 1: of everything. Yeah, and that number, by the way, is

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Speaker 1: eight hundred and seventy billion dollars at least in two

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine dollars. Right, But that's not Mexico, that's everyone.

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Speaker 1: So that's GDP global domestic product. Yeah. So back to

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Speaker 1: this caucus you mentioned the Senator Diane Feinstein, just to

422
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: put this in like um and across the board perspective

423
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: for US political wonks. She is hanging at that caucus

424
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: June eleven, the same year, and she says, quote, the

425
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: illicit drug trade is a business valued at anywhere between

426
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty six and six hundred fifty two billion.

427
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: Its reaches global, its distribution is growing, Its leadership is criminal.

428
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: So these politicians are kind of throwing out guesses. But

429
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: they're all big numbers. There's no one who's coming along

430
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: and saying, you know, playing prices right. No one is saying,

431
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: I think it's four hundred six billion and one dollar

432
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: he's gonna say, Or just shoot for one dollar with

433
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: those giant figures, you probably win. Well, then I want

434
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: to go back to all Tommy Wayne Right. Uh. Tom

435
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: Wayne Right, the awesome person who was interviewed on NPR

436
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: that we've been discussing because he did write a book

437
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: about his travels and his reporting with the the Economist

438
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: down there, and man, he lays it out so plainly

439
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: and clearly. I think we've got a quote from him, right,

440
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: we do, we do? Indeed, matt uh he says, he says, uh,

441
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: so he's talking about how weird his job became right

442
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: when he because he's thinking, I'm in a report on

443
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: mobile phones and maybe tequila, and he says instead quote,

444
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: I found that one week I'd be writing about the

445
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: car business, the next week I'd be writing about the

446
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: drugs business. I gradually came to see that the two

447
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: actually were perhaps more similar than people normally recognized. Now,

448
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: Tom hasn't you know, a sponsored the show or anything.

449
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: We're just a fan of good sources and primary sources.

450
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: So he wrote a book called Narcoonomics Clever Portmanteau Tomu

451
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: Narconomics How to Run a Drug Cartel. Uh and it

452
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: very much is like a textbook. So we're gonna dive

453
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: into some of this stuff. What does he find? This

454
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: is so amazing to me. Oh my god, what does

455
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: he find? Well, we'll tell you what he found. Uh.

456
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: He found that these companies we're using business models, they

457
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: were very very similar to the types of strategies um

458
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: and or you know, organizational kind of arrangements that big

459
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: box stores um or even fast food franchises used. And

460
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: you'll remember back to that quote we we we referenced

461
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: about you know, Walmart in terms of like the amount

462
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: of capital they're generating. So then being one of the

463
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: biggest US chains Walmart in certain industries are effectively the

464
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: only buyer for certain products um and. This is the

465
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,239
Speaker 1: same deal with cartels. And that becomes the idea of

466
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: being an exclusive buyer, you know, the the that that

467
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: is part of you know, the cartel model. And we

468
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: were talking a little bit off air about how I

469
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: thought I just mentioned, um, you know the character of

470
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: Gus spring on breaking bad and how he, you know,

471
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: in his straight kind of cover life, owns and operates

472
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: and runs day to day this like fast food franchise,

473
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: the Lapoyos Harmonos, And he does that with the same

474
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: like fastidiousness and attention to detail and in some cases

475
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: ruthlessness as he runs his illegal drug operation. Um and

476
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: and you know, and it's it's the revenue stream in

477
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: and of itself, but it feels like they kind of

478
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: are like existing in these like very interesting parallel paths.

479
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know if you guys that occurred to either

480
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: of you in looking into this stuff. Well, yeah, if

481
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: you think about that example, and you imagine the price

482
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: of the raw chicken that Gus Fring buys in order

483
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: to cook and then sell in his you know stores, right,

484
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: you can think about it the same way as the

485
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: cocoa leaf for the coca plants then are grown very

486
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: specific part of South America over there, like only a

487
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: couple of places in then Andy's Mountains. Um. So, like

488
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: if the price of that chicken in Gus Fring's case changes,

489
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: Gus has to make a decision who am I going

490
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: to raise my prices or am I going to make

491
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: other operating cost changes in order to make up, you know,

492
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: for how much I'm gonna make, how much how much

493
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: income I'm gonna have, how much profit I'm gonna make.

494
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: It's the same thing with the drug cartels. So they

495
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: start they manipulate variables. As we said, Ben, Yeah, yeah,

496
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: just so, And we're gonna get into this. This is

497
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: crazy foreshadowing. We're actually going to have some math that

498
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: is not boring in a second or later this week.

499
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: We still don't know if there's a two parter. So okay,

500
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: let's think of Let's think of Tom's example here. Let's

501
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 1: think of big box stores in the United States and

502
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: in North America in general. Walmart is one of the

503
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: biggest chains. Uh. It's so big that the children born

504
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: to the founder were automatically billionaires, if not multi multimillionaires. UH.

505
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: In certain industries right now, Walmart is effectively the only

506
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: buyer of a good, so they all the shots to

507
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: the suppliers. This means that if there's a quoting Tom here,

508
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: if there is a disruption to some sort of supply

509
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: and Walmart runs that supply chain, uh. Tom uses the

510
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: example of like a bad harvest year for apples, apple growers.

511
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: In that case, they can't increase their prices because Walmart

512
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: is the only buyer. Therefore, Walmart dictates the price. So

513
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: Walmart can say, uh, dang, we already made the price,

514
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: and if you don't sell it to us, I guess

515
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: just put them somewhere because they're not going anywhere else.

516
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: And that that makes way more sense when you're talking

517
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: about a drug cartel and somebody, let's say, growing coca

518
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: plants and coca leaves, because it's you have one person

519
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: that you can sell it to, and if you don't

520
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: sell it to that person, your life could be in danger.

521
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 1: Right if it just goes somewhere else and you try

522
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: and offload it somewhere else, you could be in trouble

523
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: with the person that would have usually purchased it, even

524
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: if they're not going to buy it at their going price,

525
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: right right. This is what economists call a monopsony, not

526
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 1: monopoly monopsony. This means that a given buyer has control

527
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: over purchasing a product in a given area. So if

528
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: you are growing coca, you have an agreement to only

529
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: sell to your Walmart a specific cartel, Unlike dealing with

530
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: the Walmarts of the world. Violating this agreement doesn't get

531
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: you in court, it gets you killed, often in horrific ways.

532
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: Because you are then most useful as an example to

533
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: other people who might try to get a little out

534
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: of pocket. And honestly, just like in the world of corporations,

535
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: this approach works. Uh. Tom Wainwright points out how there

536
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: was this this weird thing that happens in Bolivia. Okay,

537
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: so the government with some funding from the US. The US,

538
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: by the way, every time we talk about drugs, the

539
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: US is very much like, oh, the left hand doesn't

540
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: know what the right hand is doing because you know,

541
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: black bag budgets. Leave it there. Another episode, So Waynewright

542
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: points out how there were millions of dollars pumped into

543
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 1: this idea of flying helicopters and crop dusters basically over

544
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: the Andies Mountains, which is prime growing area for coca,

545
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: and they were dumping wheat killer, they were dumping herbicides

546
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: over there, and they destroyed thousands and thousands of hectakers

547
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: of coca. But oddly enough, if you were like a

548
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: nine eighties movie producer in Los Angeles, the price of

549
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: cocaine from your guy doesn't change, it's the same because

550
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: these cartels have learned lessons from corporations, just like Walmart.

551
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: They have a grip on the entirety of their supply

552
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: chain such that they can move the variables and they

553
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: can make that thing that street price on the other

554
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: side of the equal sign, they can make it stay

555
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: the same. It just takes some bookkeeping exactly well. And

556
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: the prices that Tom Wainwright describes, I think this is

557
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: this the math you're talking about, Ben or Okay, the

558
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: way he describes the difference in how much a cartel

559
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: pays for the raw product, the coca plants, like depending

560
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: on how well the harvest was that year. The difference

561
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: between a regular year and a oh man, this coca

562
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: plant is twice as expensive as it normally is is

563
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: astoundingly not even a thing for the cartel, Like there's

564
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: no effect there. And here's why. So this is what

565
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: Tom says within that MPR interview. To make for instance,

566
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: a kilo of cocaine, you need about a ton of

567
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: coca leaf, and that ton, once it's all dried out

568
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: in a country like Columbia, will fetch perhaps four hundred dollars.

569
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: Now that's not much money. If you know anything, if

570
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 1: you've watched any movies that deal with kilos of cocaine,

571
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: four hundred dollars doesn't seem like much. That's me talking

572
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: back to the quote. Now, the kilo in the United

573
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: States will fetch about a hundred thousand dollars. So let's

574
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: say you're incredibly successful in managing to raise the price

575
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: of coca leaf and you manage to double it to

576
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: eight hundred dollars. If you then manage to transfer all

577
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: of that extra cost onto the consumer, make somebody pay

578
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: a little more for the you know, user side of

579
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: the cocaine, that final kilo of cocaine is only going

580
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: to cost now one hundred thousand and four hundred dollars.

581
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: In other words, you can double the price of coca

582
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: leaf and you increase the price of the final product

583
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: cocaine by us than one percent. That's insane, yea all

584
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: thanks to monopsony. Yeah, okay, okay, So this is this

585
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: is a phenomenon. This doesn't like, This isn't how economics works,

586
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: except if you're in this situation with this like super

587
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: shady supply chain. It's how you can make economics work

588
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: for you, and it doesn't just apply to illicit drug cartels.

589
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: If you control supply and demand, if you can artificially

590
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: influence those things, then you decide you can reverse engineer

591
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: the equation. You can decide what the end point prices,

592
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: and you can just make things work in that regard.

593
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: Our work toward that aim. This is Uh, it's brilliant.

594
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time with this because you guys know,

595
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: I like the closest thing I have to a spiritual

596
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: belief is is respective intelligence. And this is very intelligent.

597
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 1: It's very evil. We're gonna pause for a word from

598
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: our sponsors, and then we're going to take aque to

599
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 1: the next exciting part of cartels as corporations. Franchising. Baby,

600
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: we've returned. What's better than starting to McDonald's, starting a

601
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: system where other people pay you to start their own McDonald's.

602
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: This is franchising, and cartels are hip to this. Again,

603
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: very intelligent, very not good people. Uh. Tom has our

604
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: back on this, Tom Wayne right. Uh. He goes into

605
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 1: details specifically about the Zetas cartel. It turns out that

606
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: these dudes owe a lot of their success not just

607
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: to the drug trade, but to franchising, Like a lot

608
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: of cartels before them. They expanded through violence, but also

609
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: through a business innovation that might surprise some of you,

610
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: especially if you like own a Chick fil a. Yeah,

611
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: it's true. Um. So when the Zetas uh set out

612
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: to incorporate into a new area, to spread their business

613
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: into a new area, um, they send out scouts um

614
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: to find uh, let's just say, underground entrepreneurs already plying

615
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: their trade in the marketplace. They essentially make them an

616
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: offer that's very attractive that they come with the to

617
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: them with a um, presumably a better product, uh, the

618
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: Zetas brand, you know, um, and that's going to there

619
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: they essentially, Um, you're right, then franchising is the way

620
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: to go, Like you can't really like, Okay, you could

621
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: have your little mom and pop diner, but what if

622
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: instead you had a McDonald's. We will know what a

623
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: McDonald's is. You know, there's consistency. You're part of a family. Now. Also,

624
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: if you join us, we're less likely to just like

625
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: snuff you out, you know, because yeah, always that's the

626
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: inherent that that's the inherent kind of uh you know,

627
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: subtext of the whole thing. Right. Yeah, And and it's

628
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: so weird. Yeah, it's so it's so strange because it's

629
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: not just the the concept of a franchise, like selling

630
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: a brand, going yeah, you should join the Zetas. The

631
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: Zetas are we're a good we're a good group of

632
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: you know, cartel members, and we really have each other's backs.

633
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: And join us. You'll like it. It's not that you know,

634
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: there's like at least corneon Wayne, right, there's like merch

635
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: in reactual branding, y'all. Where can we get our hands

636
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: on some of these embroidered baseball caps and T shirts? No, no,

637
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: don't do it. I don't think you want them to

638
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: have your address. Honestly, it's a self preservation thing. Surely

639
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: you'll think they're available on the on the on the

640
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: black market or in collectors circles. Just seems like something

641
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: that somebody would be, you know, morbidly, you know, fascinating

642
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: enough to have some sort of like glass case at

643
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: this point in Yeah, it's kind of like serial killer merchandise.

644
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: You know, would you would you want to be someone

645
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: who looks like you're down with that even ironically? I

646
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: mean it's a question. But the link of the Zaida's

647
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: thing is the Zaida's thing is real. In terms of branding,

648
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 1: they're going they're being very corporate about it. They're saying, look, hey,

649
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: look we see you, young man. You're out on this corner.

650
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: You're running the block. You're doing your crime. We like that,

651
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: and you know what we like growth. We believe a

652
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: rising tide carries all crimes. So join up with us.

653
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: Do some crimes for us. Call yourself the Zaida's just

654
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: like us. We will take over your territory the way

655
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: roam of old conquered nations. Don't change your original practices.

656
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: Just use our money, wave our flags, and give us

657
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: a certain percentage the flags. In this case, as you

658
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: guys mentioned, it's branding, it's swag. They will give you

659
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: ba small caps was Zeta's logos, T shirts with the logo.

660
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 1: They might give you some small arms firearms training in return.

661
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: The Zetas like the federal government level. There'll be funny later,

662
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: we're terrifying the federal government level. Zetas get a share

663
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: a percentage of all the money from those local criminals.

664
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: It is exactly one to one. The kind of franchising

665
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: model that you see in fast food. Just so strange

666
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: to me that it actually functions that way and and

667
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 1: Waynwright isn't making that up. He been. He talked two

668
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: people to at least one person in prison that was

669
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: running one of these franchise like, uh, franchise like Zeta's

670
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: or is that not Zata's. It's darkly hilarious. It's a yeah,

671
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: it's a kingpin from L Salvador uh so. So like

672
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: any other franchise arrangement at their pros and cons pro

673
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: this allows ze us to grow much more quickly than

674
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: they're less illuminated competitors. Con they have the same problem

675
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: that all franchise operations have. The more franchise e s

676
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: you have, right, the more local outfits you have, the

677
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: better it is from the big company because you get

678
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: you know, you get to wet your beak, as you said, Noll,

679
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: with every single transaction. But if you are the local outfit,

680
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: if you're the local franchise, then that means the more

681
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: spots there are close to you, the more competitors you have.

682
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: There are more people trying to eat your lunch or

683
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 1: sniff your blow or whatever. We want to go with this, Paul,

684
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: I trust you on the edit. This makes things tougher

685
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: for the local franchises. Every McDonald's, think about it, Every

686
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: McDonald's ever in a given area makes money for the

687
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: big clown, but they have to compete against the other McDonald's.

688
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: The same thing is true in the drug trade. In

689
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: legal franchises, franchise ease can go to court, they can sue.

690
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: It's called encroachment. They feel like their federal government, they're

691
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: big company, their Graham Puba has done them dirty by

692
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: having too many you know, McDonald's or Burger Kings or Rby's, Subways, Nando's.

693
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. It's the same thing. And the problem

694
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: is we we're talking about illegal drug trafficking or you know,

695
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: just organized crime franchising. There's not really a court of law.

696
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: There's someone who decides to kill you, and you don't

697
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: really have appeals. This is so weird to me to

698
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: think about two groups of Zeta's that converge on the

699
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: same corner and then there's a conversation, well, no, there's

700
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: our corner. It's like the Spider Man means corner. No, no,

701
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: but we're the Zetas. But yeah, but but we're the Zetas.

702
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 1: That's interesting that it was like, it's like a West

703
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: Side story like rumble kind of situation. But you know, yeah,

704
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 1: you're right, it's like the Spider Man, mean, where they're

705
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: pointing at each other. But you know, you could also

706
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: argue that, I mean, the obvious argument is that prohibition

707
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: of drugs in general is what creates the the the

708
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: vacuum that these folks operator, um, and that's there's no

709
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: question about that. But you could also argue that without

710
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: a larger scale cartel situation, there would be much more

711
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: chaos and in fighting between you know, much much larger

712
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: number of competing entities, don't you think. I mean, obviously

713
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: the cartels, I'm not I'm not being a cartel apologist here.

714
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: I'm saying they do serve some function, uh in in

715
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, in this world. Objectively, that's not a bad point,

716
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: because the alternative would be, uh, a more micro economic

717
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: king of the hill, block by block, city by city fight.

718
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: But we're again, we're not being apologist here. What we're

719
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: seeing is a natural evolution. As disturbing as it may seem,

720
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't in these sorts of systems. It doesn't really

721
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: matter what you're selling. It matters how you sell it

722
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: and how you control uh, competition. Right now, you control

723
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: access to resources. We just got a bunch of game

724
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: theory listeners. Ears perked up. Well, we talked about that

725
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: kind of command and control and management stuff. So shout

726
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: out to uh, settlers of Katon, Shout out to a

727
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: couple of MTG decks. Uh, look, this is the thing.

728
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: Uh Waynewright knows this, as you are alluding to earlier.

729
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: Matt Waynewright knows this because he sits down with a

730
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 1: drug kingpin who is in jail in El Salvador and

731
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: talks with the guy. Uh and Tom notices. Tom is like, look,

732
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: this guy is in jail physically, but he's still clearly

733
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: running his business, right, he just has He just couldn't

734
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: choose the address of his apartment, basically, but his life continues.

735
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: And this guy's gripes are one for one, all the

736
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: stuff you would expect to hear from like a very

737
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: stressed out mid level manager like um, steph needs to

738
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: be better. These people are like doing the wrong thing

739
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: on this block and where do they have these deals? Man?

740
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: That kind of stuff, and it's interesting. But as a

741
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of our fellow listeners today

742
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: will point out all businesses legal or illegal. You know,

743
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: if if we become agnostic about what they are attempting

744
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: to sell and we study instead the structural process of

745
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: selling it, we see that businesses passed a certain threshold

746
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: typically evolved to practice the same strategies. That is largely

747
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: writ that is just capitalism with the capital c But

748
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: the big question, the dangerous part, and this is what

749
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 1: we'll end on here, what happens when a cartel replaces

750
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: a government a non capitalistic in theory entity, an entity

751
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: that is meant to serve and protect the people who

752
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:18,479
Speaker 1: live within its borders. This has almost happened way more

753
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: often than people like to think. I mean like Pablo Escobar,

754
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: who is in my mind, most famous for introducing the

755
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 1: hippopotamus UH to South America, but is also known for

756
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: dabbling in drugs and ultimately he got very very close

757
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: to making a run as a legit politician. It's a

758
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: scary story, it's worth looking into. But we want you

759
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: to know that these brushes with replacing democratically elected governments,

760
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 1: they occur more often than you think, and it works

761
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: very It's actually a simple system. You start, you buy

762
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 1: the low level folks, just like banks buy neighborhoods. Right,

763
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: You don't start in the is posh Beverly Hills area.

764
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: You find the desperate people. You find the people who

765
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: need help or the people who desire more power. You

766
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: get the low level folks and you support their careers.

767
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: You exert your influence to advance your chosen moles right

768
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: to ever hire positions of power. You don't start by

769
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: buying a president. You start by growing someone into a president.

770
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: That's the way you buy an attorney General Clinton, who

771
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: then becomes Governor Clinton, who becomes President Clinton. We just

772
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: learned about that, by the way, we didn't even did

773
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: we even talk about Mina, Arkansas, and like everything that

774
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: went down in Mina while he was like cocaine was

775
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 1: coming in on airplanes and the c i A wasn't

776
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: fin Hey, but he plays saxophone. Hey man, it might

777
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 1: have just been his own personal to get highway. That's

778
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: what you think jazz plays itself? Do you think jazz

779
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: plays itself? No, sir, shout out By the way to Connor,

780
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: I always love that Sam Jackson line from Jackie Brown,

781
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: where like Jackie Brown gets caught with cocaine, He's like

782
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 1: he just explains away, like that man. Maybe she wasn't smoking,

783
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: It might have just been her own personally, the guy

784
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: with right right, remarkable, Who are we to judge? So

785
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: the cartels think they are the ones to judge, to

786
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: be honest with you, speaking of segways, since about the

787
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: ninety nineties, they understood largely these various different organizations. They

788
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: understood their success was contingent on being a power behind

789
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,959
Speaker 1: the throne for the breaking bad example, Gus Free never

790
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: wants to be police chief. That's too obvious. He wants

791
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: to be the biggest donor to the policeman's ball. Right.

792
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 1: That's how you get folks, You start, you start small.

793
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: Koch brothers taught us that many years ago, and they

794
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: did it. Uh, they are doing it with great success.

795
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: Or they were. But the idea was, if they can

796
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: co opt government authorities, all they have to do is

797
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: give those folks a percentage, a really small percentage. What's

798
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: big for an individual is small for a corporation. And

799
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: again these are corporations at this point. So they said,

800
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: everybody wins, you know what I mean, except for the civilians.

801
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: But those aren't really people. They're either customers or their

802
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: revenue sources or their victims. Uh So, the alternative they

803
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: had was open confrontation, was war hot war writ large,

804
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,720
Speaker 1: and this would have been bad for business. They didn't

805
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: have a bunch of like, um, go get her guys

806
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: like slapping themselves on the face and saying tonight we

807
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: dined on blood. They were They were like, what are

808
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: our Q for profits gonna look like if we if

809
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: we can't make something work here? And this was sort

810
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: of the lay of the land until about two thousand

811
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: and seven. Two thousand and seven, the boffins at the

812
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: cartels changed their calculation and thus they changed their m

813
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: O and they begin to attack local elected officials and

814
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: political candidates. Why did they do this They did it

815
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 1: exactly in reaction to a two thousand seven statement from

816
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: the Mexican federal government that declared open war on cartels.

817
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: Just for comparison, keep spinning these business analogies. Imagine if

818
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: one day, um, the President of the United States, as

819
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: we record this, Joe Biden came up out of press

820
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: ofference and he was like, oh gosh, I guess I

821
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: need sunglasses and we're doing Uncle Joe one second. This

822
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: prop comedy will be worth it for Matt and no folks,

823
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if it'll be done with it. Okay,

824
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: So he goes on and it is unexpected. H wow,

825
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: it looks like I'm on coke now, all right? He

826
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: goes on and he uh, he has do unexpected press

827
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: conference and he goes um, Philly Americans, the time has come.

828
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: We can no longer tolerate the activities of Walmart the

829
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: good of the American people. This is war. No more

830
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 1: tune amounts like that's kind of what they did, but

831
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: with drugs and a lot more guns. I don't think

832
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: Subway has an army. Well yeah, I mean if you

833
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: just imagine, if you imagine how much of a betrayal

834
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: that probably seemed like. Because again, these a lot of

835
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: these local and larger politicians and even government like military

836
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: officials were receiving a lot of money personally from organized crime.

837
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: There are folks like Ernesto Trucci, writing for the Chicago

838
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 1: Policy Review, who pointed us to a fantastic study by

839
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 1: Guillermo Trejo and Sandra Ley which explains what is happening.

840
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: They call it the criminal governance hypothesis, and they say,

841
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: the reason that these cartels actively were, you know, an

842
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: open war against these governments is that they wanted to

843
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:21,439
Speaker 1: establish criminal governance regimes at the sub national level by

844
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: subduing those local municipalities, the folks who need help the most.

845
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: Just like corporations before them, they figured out that controlling

846
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: the machinery of law gives you direct control over not

847
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: just your product, but over what is defined as prosecutable crime.

848
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: And it also helps you, you know, sell lives and avocados.

849
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: Let's not forget about that, Zack de le Rocca. It

850
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,439
Speaker 1: turns out was correct. Again the g ride you want,

851
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: the machines that are making them, and the leaders of

852
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: these cartels are many, many things. But again, like restaurateurs,

853
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: they are not stupid. They could not survive this long

854
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: in their environment to otherwise. Maybe we maybe we end

855
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: on this like a little thought experiment, Matt. Nope, no, Matt.

856
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: Let's say you are a cartel and you want to

857
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: replace a government. What's the name of the cartel? What's

858
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: the what's the Frederics, the Sinnabon Cartel. Oh, that's really good.

859
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: All right, I was going to be the Marcus meth Emporium.

860
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: But that's fine, Okay, different names, different places, you know

861
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: what I mean? It's Okay, we're at well, you're at

862
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: the you're at the Luxottica stage right with sunglasses. Now

863
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: you're selling things under different names. So we got this cartel.

864
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: Our guys need to expand and they need what all

865
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:48,439
Speaker 1: governments and businesses wants. They want predictable results year over year,

866
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: minimal expenses, maximum profit. Those big expenses for your cartel,

867
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: they come in the form of criminal penalties. So, being rational,

868
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: very intelligent act ters, you take a page from those

869
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: Koke brothers out in the US. You start acting local.

870
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: You don't buy presidents yet unless that president is cartoonishly incompetent. Yes,

871
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: that is a statement that should be taken the way

872
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: you thought. I meant it. You start small Zeta style.

873
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: You look for vulnerable municipalities, like think about think about

874
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: this all right, wherever you live, wherever you live, think

875
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: about your world, your region. You know that there are

876
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: areas where people are worse off than they are in

877
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: other parts of town. That is where you go. You

878
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: want to find the places where the rule of law

879
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: and the governmental mechanisms meant to enforce that law seem

880
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: most strapped for cash. Nolan Matt look at each other

881
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: as kingpins of a drug cartel, and they say, boom,

882
00:59:54,040 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: that's where we go. In Mexico, there's a cheek. Sorry, Texas,

883
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: just the whole thing, just the whole thing, one of

884
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: the biggest states. We'll just do that and then what

885
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: do we doing Thursday. But but there's a cheat code,

886
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: and we don't we don't really have time to get

887
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: in the weeds with it now. But in Mexico, it

888
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: turns out there's a cheat code. You as drug cartel leaders,

889
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: you find an area where the elected officials belong to

890
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: a party that is not the political party of the

891
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: current Mexican president, because that party, the ruling party typically

892
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: historically in Mexico, is going to give less federal support

893
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: against drug trafficking because oppositional politicians run that town. And

894
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: that means that the federal government is already poisoning the

895
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: pill against these very innocent people. Now, if you're the president,

896
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: you can point to those places with the opposing political

897
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: party and you can say, hey, look how terrible they are.

898
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: Look at all the violence in your city in your

899
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: state because you supported this political party. If you support

900
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: me and my crew, my gang, maybe this can you know,

901
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: get a little better. It's gross it's true. It's how

902
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: the system works. If you don't fall in line with

903
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: that current dominant party, you have a target on your back.

904
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: And this I wish this wasn't true, but it very

905
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: much is. And then if you come back into the fold,

906
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: you come in from the cold, violence starts to go away. Wow,

907
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: just like that. Trejo and lay Back this up. In

908
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: their research. They show that Cartel's not only exploit political rivalries,

909
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: but they also show this blew my mind. They show

910
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: that Cartel's time attacks too electoral cycles, which is nuts.

911
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: Imagine if an election was coming up in your city

912
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: and you knew that drug violence was on the rise

913
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: for some reason, and you might not know why, but

914
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: you know what's coming. It wasn't a particularly great show,

915
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: but um, that show Weeds, as it kind of like

916
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: moved into later seasons, did sort of show that process

917
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: that you're talking about. I think at the end of

918
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: the day, the president of Mexico was like deeply embedded

919
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: within the cartel. I can't remember exactly because it was,

920
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: like I said, not particularly great, but um, you know what,

921
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 1: it is a thing for sure, especially in countries where

922
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: that line between you know, politician and criminal is ever

923
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 1: thinner how to say that it's not a thing here?

924
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: We know, damn well it is, but maybe not to

925
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: the same degree of like you know, um, I don't know.

926
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that's maybe that's a pipe dream. Maybe it's

927
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: just as bad. Money is a drug too, man, Money

928
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:56,439
Speaker 1: is a drug in the first ones, and people get hooked. Look,

929
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: what we're saying here is not that cartels have replaced

930
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: the entire or Mexican government. Yet we're not saying that

931
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: at all. Well, we're telling you is something that's in

932
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: its own way more disturbing. Cartels knowingly have their finger

933
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: on the vote. They don't want individual neighborhoods, they want

934
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: the offices of power. And what does that mean for

935
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: the future. Honestly means things are dire. Opposing the narcos,

936
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: as anyone can tell you, is a quick ticket to

937
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: an early death. There are many, many, many heroic individuals

938
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: who are fighting against this incipiate takeover. But there's a

939
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: reason people talk about you know what they call it,

940
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: uh what you're alluding to knowl In Mexico, it's sometimes

941
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: referred to Latin America, sometimes referred to as plato plomo,

942
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: which means silver or lead, which means if you can't

943
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 1: be bought by silver, you will be bought by lead. Guys,

944
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: forgive me, I think I think these symbolism here is

945
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: being lost on me. Had alluding to bullets, Yes, let see, Okay, okay,

946
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: cool silver bullets. If you wanted to go where wolves? Yeah,

947
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: huge problem that our next episode where wolds. But also

948
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: we have to admit oh wait, wait, have you guys

949
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: seen that new vampire movie on Netflix with Jamie far Shift.

950
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I liked it. I really enjoyed, had

951
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: a great time with it. Jamie fox Snoop Doggs there.

952
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, I like it. I'm a sucker for

953
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: any supernatural comedy horror honestly kind of has like tails

954
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: from the hood vibes from the from the promos that

955
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 1: I've been looking at. Yeah, I'd be interested to see

956
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: what you think. Like, you know, I think the three

957
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: of us are Actually we have a We have a

958
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: pretty good finger on the pulse of each other's taste. Like,

959
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever given each other a bad

960
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: recommendation on things. Unfortunately, not on the vote. We have

961
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: very little control over that. Yeah. Yeah, well, podcast cartels

962
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: aren't quite a thing. Yet drug cartels very much are

963
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: and oh I see your face, mat and uh well, well, uh.

964
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: One difference between a hypothetical podcast cartel and a drug cartel,

965
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 1: especially in Mexico, is that, you know, the definition of

966
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: the state really is if you get past all the

967
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: niceties and diplomatic window dressing and all the you know,

968
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 1: pretends about cultural traditions or whatever, which really find is

969
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: the definition of a state. The only one that matters

970
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: is the entity that has a monopoly on violence, on

971
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: the legal application of violence. That is the only definition

972
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: of a state that really matters in human history, and

973
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: cartels are getting close to that. Cartels now have gangs

974
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: and regularly did groups of armed forces that have in

975
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: some cases got training from places like the School of

976
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: the America's look it Up, have fun uh and this

977
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: means that. And they've got branded hats, they got the swag.

978
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 1: You know, they're driven. But the thing you need to

979
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: realize is Mexico specifically is arguably home to more armies

980
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: than the state itself controls. And that should scare you. Uh.

981
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: And the big question, of course, if we want some

982
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel, will legalizing these substances.

983
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: Will it curtail the expansion of these brutal regimes? I

984
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: mean I had to say, I hate to be this person, guys,

985
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: But years ago, yes that might have worked, But today

986
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: that window of opportunity may have passed people by. Cartel's

987
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: went from gigs to mobs, to businesses to international corporations.

988
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: And if you were listening now, in make no mistake,

989
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: the next step is governed. I mean, what does their

990
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: I R s look like? Well, that's exactly right then,

991
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: And and to your point I think you made very

992
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: early in the episode. Uh, we were talking about prohibition,

993
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: you know, once prohibition and did they found somewhere else

994
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: to to to go in terms of like you know,

995
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 1: illegal underground enterprises. Uh, if if all of a sudden

996
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: tomorrow drugs were legalized, yeah, it would be a blow.

997
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 1: But does it maybe mean they would get into even

998
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: more diabolical and nefarious trades like human trafficking. They'd up

999
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: their division, right, That's what I'm saying. Like, I just

1000
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: don't think I think it's an illusion or a little

1001
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: bit um naive in the very least to say that,

1002
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 1: if you know, I mean the point earlier about prohibition

1003
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 1: being a big case cause of this. But you're right,

1004
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: you can't put that back in the bottle tomorrow just

1005
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: by okay, sorry, we take it back. All drugs are

1006
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: legal now, that's not gonna end to the cartel's iron grip.

1007
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: Switzerland did fix, at least to some extent there um

1008
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: heroin all by by legalizing and making it a something

1009
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: you could get from your doctor through a prescription, which curtailed,

1010
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the black market heroin sales,

1011
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 1: But that didn't remove the organizations that we're selling the heroin.

1012
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: So I'm interested to know, I haven't seen a deep

1013
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,600
Speaker 1: enough dive and like what actually happened to the organization

1014
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: selling the heroine that is now legal. They opened to McDonald's. Yeah,

1015
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 1: it's not like the biggest market in the universe, you know,

1016
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: just just it's a very wealthy market. Um, that's true.

1017
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 1: But but this is this is where we leave it.

1018
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: And you know, folks, we have a lot of a

1019
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: lot of our fellow listeners today have spent time in Mexico.

1020
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: Are Mexican nationals may have tragically had encounters with cartel

1021
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 1: associated crime. One thing that happens very often in the

1022
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: US is that a country, millions of people gets vilified

1023
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 1: or treated as the is monolithic. Make no mistake, Just

1024
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: so we can be very clear, US drug policies are

1025
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: a huge part of the rise to power of cartel's Uh.

1026
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: And there is a very compelling argument to be made

1027
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 1: that making these things no longer, making these substances no

1028
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:25,720
Speaker 1: longer a source of illicit income will slice the Achilles

1029
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 1: heel of some of these cartels. But the again, the

1030
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: question is, you know, what if, like here, here's the thing,

1031
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: what if potatoes became illegal. As we're recording this, we

1032
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: get out of the booth, we find the potatoes are

1033
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:45,480
Speaker 1: now illegal. They're on the level of heroin everywhere but Switzerland.

1034
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: McDonald's would not fail because McDonald's makes a ton of

1035
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: money as a real estate company. Now they don't need

1036
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: the fries. Yes, but they could also just work with

1037
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:04,719
Speaker 1: the government and have a few select McDonald's for potato

1038
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: growers where it's specifically sanctioned potatoes for their products, in

1039
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 1: the same way that drug companies you know, still by

1040
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 1: heroin essentially to turn into legal prescription drugs. Uh. That

1041
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 1: that still happens. Remember that I'm gonna turn into a

1042
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 1: potato horder. I can't live without them. I'm addicted. I

1043
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: need the carbs, you know. But we also need to

1044
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: thank you folks. So we went a little long on

1045
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: this one, but we we feel like the conspiracies are real, uh,

1046
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 1: and they need to be examined in more depth. So

1047
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: thanks to Tom Wainwright. Thanks to everybody for tuning in.

1048
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 1: The most important part of this show is you. We

1049
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: want to hear from you, and we try to be

1050
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: easy to find online, correct de mundo. You can find

1051
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter, and

1052
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 1: you can find us on YouTube at they handle conspiracy

1053
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: stuff on Instagram. We exist as conspiracy Stuff show. And hey,

1054
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: while you're on the internet, go go preorder that book.

1055
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 1: Preord to the book stuff. They don't want you to

1056
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,640
Speaker 1: know the book. Ben Bolan in the Big Text for

1057
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: damn good reason, with with with Matt, with Matt Frederick

1058
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: and Noel Brown. We did our best. Uh. It is

1059
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: so good, it really is. And the reviews are coming

1060
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 1: in and they're really positive, and it really I'm just

1061
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: so proud of you, Ben, proud of all of us,

1062
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: but really just not that other park. The illustrations are cool,

1063
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 1: it'll be a cool addition to any conspiracy, really exactly,

1064
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 1: Admiral Turbot, Nick Benson, fabulous friend of ours mural artist

1065
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: Shordinaire did these beautiful, uh comic book style illustrations. Get

1066
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: ye to an Amazon or whatever Barnes and Noble page

1067
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: and preorder that business. It's gonna be a really nice

1068
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: looking and most importantly reading book. And thanks to everybody

1069
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:58,640
Speaker 1: who already did pre order and uh sent sent a

1070
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: note to me. Just got back in the States for

1071
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: a second, I've got I've got some personal thank you

1072
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: on the way. It might be filmed in a weird place,

1073
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:12,839
Speaker 1: but but yes, we we are grateful. You will also

1074
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 1: not to be too orphan any Christmas story about it.

1075
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: You also get access to a secret episode when you

1076
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 1: pre ordered the book. We're not even going to tell

1077
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: you what it is. Nope. Hey. In the weirdest turn

1078
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:30,560
Speaker 1: of events ever, our podcast got turned into research that

1079
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: got turned into a book. Then that book got turned

1080
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: into an audio book. So our podcast like went around

1081
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: this weird, weird way to turn into a really cool

1082
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: prose audio book. It's awesome, It's really really good and

1083
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you all to hear it. So

1084
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 1: check that out and if you if you, if you

1085
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: don't like it, then buy it for your enemies. That'll

1086
01:12:55,080 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 1: show him. Yeah, but if that'll show But if you uh,

1087
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 1: if you have something to say, we very much cannot

1088
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,679
Speaker 1: wait to hear from you, and we have your back.

1089
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: If you do not sip those social meads, you can

1090
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: use your phone for its old school, once upon a

1091
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 1: time purpose and give us a call at our dedicated

1092
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: line where we are one eight three three st d

1093
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: w y t K. You'll hear a voice still here,

1094
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 1: a being that gives you three minutes. Those three minutes

1095
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 1: are yours. Go nuts, go wild, get weird with it,

1096
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: give yourself a nickname, a moniker, and appellation. If you

1097
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: will tell us what's on your mind, tell us if

1098
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: it's okay to use your name and or voice on

1099
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 1: the air, and most importantly, if you need more than

1100
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 1: three minutes, we have your back as well. All you

1101
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: have to do is send us a good old fashioned

1102
01:13:48,479 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: email where we are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com.

1103
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 1: M m hmmm. Stuff they don't want you to know

1104
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

1105
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app

1106
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.