Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Sabor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Anny Rees.
Speaker 2: And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
Speaker 2: for you about violets.
Speaker 1: Yes. I always love our flower episodes, even though they're
Speaker 1: a little bit difficult to pin down.
Speaker 2: Always uh huh. And there are so many poetical references
Speaker 2: in this one that I stopped myself at a certain
Speaker 2: point and was like, we're going to have to do
Speaker 2: a bonus episode about this if we want to do this,
Speaker 2: because there's too many poems about violets.
Speaker 1: Yes, And in fact, we were discussing before I had
Speaker 1: an unfinished note in the outline hmmm, where I was
Speaker 1: like poetry about violets through the time, and I never
Speaker 1: finished it, and then because of DeLay's and a bunch
Speaker 1: of various things, I forgot that I had it, and
Speaker 1: then thought Lauren was going to finish the thought, and
Speaker 1: I was very excited about it.
Speaker 2: And I had to be the buzzkill who today like
Speaker 2: commented on the unfinished phrase like, Hey, my dude, like,
Speaker 2: are you going to finish this thought?
Speaker 1: Oh? No, I thought it was your thought, So no, okay,
Speaker 1: we're all doing great. We are doing great. We're speaking of,
Speaker 1: we are a little behind with this one, but there
Speaker 1: was an idea behind.
Speaker 2: It, right, So Mother's Day as we are recording this
Speaker 2: was this past Sunday, and I was like, hey, let's
Speaker 2: do something nice for Mother's Day, maybe perhaps a flower,
Speaker 2: and we somehow landed on violets. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty
Speaker 2: much it. But yes, Mother's Day, Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: I'm actually meeting with my mom this weekend because the
Speaker 1: weather was so bad. Oh yeah, so's it's timely in
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, celebrate the mothers in your
Speaker 2: life every day. For anyone who has a hard time
Speaker 2: on a Mother's Day, I see you. And you know,
Speaker 2: violets are still very nice.
Speaker 1: Violets are still really nice. So for past episodes you
Speaker 1: can see I would say rosewater, dandelion, lavender.
Speaker 2: Yeah we did that. I forgot about that.
Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yes, I would never forget because I learned
Speaker 1: that my lion trick doesn't work in that episode. Lions
Speaker 1: are not deterred by lavender. Oh heck, I forgot about
Speaker 1: that too. Here we are, thanks for reminding me. I've
Speaker 1: got to live. I gotta know what I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: if I face a lion lauren and also marigolds.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes, yes, such, yes, but that brings us
Speaker 2: to our question. Sure, violets, what are they?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Violets are small flowers that are purple to white in color,
Speaker 2: sometimes a little bit of both in patterns or gradients,
Speaker 2: and have a scent that's sort of soft and sweet
Speaker 2: and a little bit woody, like a gentle, powdery sort
Speaker 2: of floral. The blossoms can be used whole as a
Speaker 2: garnish in salads or desserts, or can be sugared and
Speaker 2: eaten as a candy or used as a garnish for desserts.
Speaker 2: The flavor and color come through well in extracts, which
Speaker 2: are used to flavor jellies and candies, baked goods, creamy
Speaker 2: desserts of various kinds, liqueurs. The plant's leaves are edible too,
Speaker 2: and can be used as fresh or cooked greens. They're
Speaker 2: a little bit bitter and vegetable and put off a
Speaker 2: little bit of like slippy, thickening mucilage they're cooked. Yeah,
Speaker 2: violets are just a treat, just real pretty to look at,
Speaker 2: and their leaves are like a real pretty dark green,
Speaker 2: and they're just small and they smell nice. And they
Speaker 2: go well with a lot of other flavors, and they
Speaker 2: kind of grow everywhere just on their own, whether you
Speaker 2: want them to or not. They're just a little ground treat.
Speaker 2: A ground treat, yeah, as opposed to as opposed to
Speaker 2: a tree treat, which is different, Okay, botanically.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: The word violet is used confusingly for hundreds of flowers
Speaker 2: in the wide genus Viola, which also includes things that
Speaker 2: are not called violets that are also edible, like pansies. However,
Speaker 2: often when you're talking about edible violets, you're talking about
Speaker 2: Viola odorata, also called sweet violets or English violets, among
Speaker 2: many other name or similar looking species like Viola sororia
Speaker 2: also called common violet, which are typically less scented but
Speaker 2: also quite edible. As far as I am personally aware
Speaker 2: due to relatively brief research, don't take my word for it.
Speaker 2: Flowers in the Viola genus are generally edible, but if
Speaker 2: you're unsure of what you're dealing with, definitely consult a
Speaker 2: field guide or local expert before you go foraging. Like
Speaker 2: I've read that yellow colored violets can cause stomach upset
Speaker 2: when eaten in large amounts. Know what you're growing and harvesting.
Speaker 2: For example, some things that are called violets, like African violets,
Speaker 2: are in a different genus and are not okay to eat.
Speaker 2: The leaves in particular, can resemble other plants that you
Speaker 2: should not eat. Always look stuff up if you are
Speaker 2: not sure. As social media personality, the black forager would
Speaker 2: say happy snacking, don't die, Yes.
Speaker 1: Don't good advice, okay.
Speaker 2: Viola odorata grow close to the ground, usually only a
Speaker 2: few inches tall, maybe like four inches or ten centimeters.
Speaker 2: Viola sororia can be about twice as tall as that,
Speaker 2: still not big. In both, the leaves are this like
Speaker 2: cute heart shape or kind of like a rounded fan shape,
Speaker 2: and are a little bit shiny. Underground, the plants grow
Speaker 2: rhizomes and true roots off of those, and the plants
Speaker 2: can spread in a few different ways via above ground shoots,
Speaker 2: or from self fertilized underground near ground flower buds, or
Speaker 2: from the seeds that pollinated flowers will produce, assuming you
Speaker 2: don't eat the flowers first. The seeds are contained within
Speaker 2: the plant's fruit, which is basically this like hard oval
Speaker 2: shaped seed pod that will split open into three sections.
Speaker 2: Shooting the seeds up and away when they're fully developed.
Speaker 2: A little bit stranger things, ask still pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Oh and speaking of those seeds, So this isn't strictly
Speaker 2: food related, but I learned a new thing today. Okay,
Speaker 2: some seeds, these seeds included, have like a little fleshy
Speaker 2: structure attached to the outside that will contain some fats
Speaker 2: and some proteins, and ants love them. Ants will take
Speaker 2: seeds with this feature. It's called an alaisome. I think
Speaker 2: I'm saying that right. They'll take it. They'll take these
Speaker 2: seeds back to their nest and give them to their
Speaker 2: developing larvae. The larvae eat the elaisome, but leave the
Speaker 2: seed intact, which the worker ants will then take out
Speaker 2: of their nest to their waste disposal area, which is
Speaker 2: a thing that ant colonies have, and they'll leave it there.
Speaker 2: And ant waste sites are rich in nutrients, so the
Speaker 2: seeds will germinate and grow into a new plant. This
Speaker 2: is a whole type of symbiotic relationship known as burmacoccary
Speaker 2: that apparently has evolved independently in all kinds of different
Speaker 2: flowering plants. I love this. I love this nature is
Speaker 2: so weird. Mrma Coachery if you're wondering, essentially means circular
Speaker 2: ant dance in Greek.
Speaker 1: Okay, I like that. I like both the words mcrockery
Speaker 1: and the image of ants dancing in a circle. Yeah. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: Anyway, having all of these contingent plans for reproduction is
Speaker 2: why violets can be really pesky in a grass lawn
Speaker 2: if you're trying to keep it perfect. On a related note,
Speaker 2: I can't tell you what to do, and I understand
Speaker 2: that perfect grass lawns are like really pretty, but consider
Speaker 2: killing your lawn and replacing it with native plants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's of my dad. He called it a naturally
Speaker 1: ard Yeah. I put that in quotes because he said
Speaker 1: it with such a specifics.
Speaker 2: But you're not doubting. You're not doubting the naturalness or
Speaker 2: the yardness. You're saying it was specifically a natural yar.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was like, yeah, what he called it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And anyway, anyway, those flowers on violets will
Speaker 2: bloom in the early spring. They have five petals arranged
Speaker 2: into a group of three, forming a sort of cup
Speaker 2: for nectar on the bottom, and then another group of two.
Speaker 2: On the top, they'll often have a bit of white
Speaker 2: towards the center of the petals and a little spot
Speaker 2: of yellow, but otherwise the petals can range in any
Speaker 2: shade of purple to white to pink. And yeah, they
Speaker 2: have this like delicate, powdery sweet sort of scent and flavor,
Speaker 2: which is extra interesting because it messes with your nervous
Speaker 2: system just a little so that it appears to come
Speaker 2: and go.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: This is because one of the scent compounds in violets
Speaker 2: is something called ionine, which a smells a floral powdery
Speaker 2: and b temporarily blocks you from smelling anything once you've
Speaker 2: smelled a certain amount of it. This is also so cool.
Speaker 2: I learned two things today, all right, So okay, let's
Speaker 2: back up a second. The way that you smell things
Speaker 2: is that let's say that a pizza just came out
Speaker 2: of the oven, and the hot bread and sauce and
Speaker 2: cheese are all putting off scent compounds into the air.
Speaker 2: As you breathe in air, some of those scent molecules
Speaker 2: will enter your airways and bind to nerve endings called
Speaker 2: olfactory receptors and activate those receptors, thus sending a message
Speaker 2: to your brain that you're smelling the cheese or the
Speaker 2: bread or the sauce, and okay, when a compound activates
Speaker 2: a nerve receptor, that compound is called an agonist. But
Speaker 2: some molecules can also bind to olfactory nerve receptors and
Speaker 2: not send a signal, and furthermore block other molecules from
Speaker 2: attaching and potentially signaling, and these compounds are called antagonists.
Speaker 2: An Ionine can act as both. So so you smell
Speaker 2: it for a little bit, and then it inhibits your
Speaker 2: ability to smell for a little bit, and then after
Speaker 2: a few breaths or minutes or whatever, it stops blocking
Speaker 2: those receptors.
Speaker 1: And you can smell it.
Speaker 2: Anew. I did not know that compounds could be both.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that this is This is awesome.
Speaker 1: It is very cool. And when I read it, the
Speaker 1: first thing I thought was have there been murder mysteries
Speaker 1: where this was used? I'm just curious. That is very neat,
Speaker 1: it's really difficul it's really cool.
Speaker 2: I mean potentially, yeah, it was that there was a
Speaker 2: certain period of time when violets were used as a
Speaker 2: funerary flower, partially because of this capacity to block your
Speaker 2: olfactory sense, because if you're hanging out around a dead body,
Speaker 2: you might not want to smell it for a minute. There,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, and so many times with these flower episodes, I
Speaker 1: just want to talk about the old language of flowers.
Speaker 1: But we have to remind ourselves we're a food show.
Speaker 1: But I do know part of the reason violets essentially
Speaker 1: got for a while got put in into the same
Speaker 1: pin of like melancholy, it was because of this. It
Speaker 1: was like when you forget something and then it comes back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: forget it and then it wow.
Speaker 2: Okay, So speaking of yeah, ostensibly a food show, all right,
Speaker 2: you can candy the flowers. You can dip them in
Speaker 2: something sticky like egg white or aquafaba, and then dip
Speaker 2: them in sugar like granulated sugar and then let them dry. Also,
Speaker 2: in addition to being a nice flavor, the extract is
Speaker 2: really pretty. It's like you can get a really good,
Speaker 2: deep violet color off of it. And it turns out
Speaker 2: that the pigment that makes violets violet is pH reactive,
Speaker 2: meaning that it changes colors based on how acidic or basic.
Speaker 2: That the solution that it's in itself is so in
Speaker 2: a neutral PhD water or alcohol or sugar syrup situation,
Speaker 2: it's going to be like like green to blue, and
Speaker 2: then if you add an acid like lemon juice, it'll
Speaker 2: turn like purple to pink, similar with litmus paper. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and this means that you can have a lot of
Speaker 2: fun with cocktails and other like decorative kitchen projects. M
Speaker 2: also of violet liqueurs. You could make your own at home,
Speaker 2: but there are several that are made commercially, often called
Speaker 2: by the French term crem devillt. It's not creamy here.
Speaker 2: Crem indicates an extraction. I believe I didn't double check that,
Speaker 2: but I feel good about it, which means I'm probably
Speaker 2: wrong fact checking for another date. At any rate. Creme
Speaker 2: de villa is an element of the classic cocktail that aviation,
Speaker 2: which is gin lemon juice, marachino licur and violet liqueur.
Speaker 1: So good.
Speaker 2: That is one of my That is just one of
Speaker 2: my favorite all time cocktails, just so nice. If you
Speaker 2: do start experimenting with the bottle of violet liqueur, use
Speaker 2: it sparingly at first. The floralness can pack more of
Speaker 2: a punch than you think. Yeah, yes, yeah, I've not
Speaker 2: personally worked with the greens though, I did go outside
Speaker 2: and like eat a few leaves while I was writing
Speaker 2: this outline, are just violet violet leaves annie specificity. I
Speaker 2: checked to make sure that the seed pods were the
Speaker 2: type of seed pods that violets have, as the flowers
Speaker 2: are not in bloom right now, so again safe foraging.
Speaker 2: They were just gonna. They were a little bit bitter
Speaker 2: and vegetable. I don't know, but yeah, I understand that
Speaker 2: they're best when they're young and tender in the spring,
Speaker 2: but are fine when they're cooked. When they're a little
Speaker 2: bit older and tougher. People recommend cooking them in general.
Speaker 2: Apparently sound folks are sensitive to them when they're raw. Okay,
Speaker 2: further test, Oh yeah, yeah, are needed? Yes, Well what
Speaker 2: about the nutrition? You know, plants in general are good
Speaker 2: for you. You know, they've got fiber and micronutrients, stuff
Speaker 2: like that. Different types of violets have been used in
Speaker 2: traditional medicines in various culture around the world, often for
Speaker 2: cough related ailments, and research about that is happening. But
Speaker 2: you know, say ra motto before you bodies are complicated.
Speaker 2: More research is necessary before ingesting a medicinal amount of anything.
Speaker 2: You should consult a healthcare provider who is not us.
Speaker 1: Definitely not nobors. Well, we do have some numbers for you,
Speaker 1: we do, all right.
Speaker 2: Viola is one of the widest genera of flowering plants,
Speaker 2: containing some four hundred to seven hundred species, depending on
Speaker 2: who you ask. These range from the herbal types that
Speaker 2: we've been talking about, to like small shrub types in
Speaker 2: the Hawaiian Islands to succulent types in the Andes. Fascinating,
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, like the list of places that violets
Speaker 2: are native to is way longer than the list of
Speaker 2: places that they're not. Somehow, like Western af Africa, eastern
Speaker 2: South America, and western Australia didn't get any other than that.
Speaker 2: I like, like they've been introduced to most of the Caribbean.
Speaker 2: They're just really widespread, And even within those hundreds of species,
Speaker 2: there can be a lot of different varieties that are
Speaker 2: bred for center color or whatever. Speaking a little bit
Speaker 2: more broadly, the global market for packaged edible flowers is
Speaker 2: expected to hit three hundred and eighty million dollars a
Speaker 2: year by twenty twenty six. Vola species I keep going
Speaker 2: back and forth between viola and viola. I think I'm
Speaker 2: sorry I'm not going to stop because I can't remember
Speaker 2: which one it is and those ab things it is
Speaker 2: on off one zero. I have no idea. It could
Speaker 2: be anyon so.
Speaker 1: You're a robot, yes, not when a vampire got it.
Speaker 2: They're probably pretty close anyway. Anyway, species in this genus
Speaker 2: are considered a profitable segment of that fresh packaged market,
Speaker 2: though not as profitable as marigolds, those tricksy marigolds. The
Speaker 2: market for violet extract is worth over two hundred million
Speaker 2: dollars a year. The natural extract is now outpacing the
Speaker 2: market for the synthetic extract, which is impressive because for
Speaker 2: a long time synthetic was kind of the thing it's
Speaker 2: It's apparently one of the earlier types of synthetic florals
Speaker 2: because of ironine being relatively easily discovered, but I couldn't
Speaker 2: find an exact date on that, so I'm not going
Speaker 2: to mention it in the history section. But here we
Speaker 2: are more. Violet extract goes into cosmetics and like personal
Speaker 2: care products than the food and beverage industry, but not
Speaker 2: by a whole lot. And there are some violet festivals
Speaker 2: in France, there's one in Provence, in this village near
Speaker 2: the Mediterranean coast, in between like can and Monaco. As
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five, it was in its seventy eighth year.
Speaker 2: There's a parade of floats made with real and paper flowers,
Speaker 2: and music and dancing and all kinds of food and
Speaker 2: drinks and products for sale made with violence. Oh, listeners,
Speaker 2: if you've been, Oh, I found photos. It looks gorgeous.
Speaker 1: You must let us know. Yes, yes, yes, yes, please yes,
Speaker 1: because honestly, a lot of are ostensibly a feud show.
Speaker 1: A lot of our history doesn't necessarily involve food, but plenty,
Speaker 1: we've got nuggets of it there. Yeah, yes, So we
Speaker 1: will get into that after a quick break from award
Speaker 1: from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay. So different types of violets originated in
Speaker 1: different places around.
Speaker 2: The world, mostly in temperate parts of the Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 2: But again there's a lot of violets. For the two
Speaker 2: that we've been mostly talking about today. V Odorata is
Speaker 2: from areas around the Mediterranean and V. Sororia is North American.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. Violets do have a long history of being
Speaker 1: prized in certain cultures. For a variety of things. The
Speaker 1: ancient Greeks used violets to flavor wines or honey, and
Speaker 1: violets are mentioned in the first century CE cookbook Out
Speaker 1: of Ancient Rome. The Epicus talked about that a lot before.
Speaker 1: The indigenous peoples in North America used all parts of
Speaker 1: the violet culinarily and medicinally.
Speaker 2: I read that and some a Jibwe traditions. During like
Speaker 2: fluffy springtime snows, they would harvest violets and then steep
Speaker 2: them overnight in birch bark containers, and then the next
Speaker 2: day use the cooled colorful tea or extract to top
Speaker 2: fresh snow with as a treat.
Speaker 1: Well, that sounds nice, right, and like you said, it
Speaker 1: is very pretty. It can be very striking, so yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, kind of speaking of. During the Medieval and
Speaker 1: Renaissance periods in Europe's violets were sometimes used in art
Speaker 1: to depict purity and innocence. The flowers themselves were dried
Speaker 1: in preparation of winter to use in the cold months.
Speaker 1: The leaves were also eaten. On top of that, the
Speaker 1: petals were sometimes used for decorations on things like cakes,
Speaker 1: which again I can just see how visually that would
Speaker 1: be a nice, nice little thing. In seventeenth century Culpeper's
Speaker 1: herbal included an entry on violets. It described many medicinal
Speaker 1: uses for the plant, but also culinary applications, particularly with
Speaker 1: violet syrup and in liqueurs. And this is just a
Speaker 1: brief aside. I think this is where I got caught
Speaker 1: up in the whole poetry thing and never finished my
Speaker 1: complete thought. But here we go, and stick with me.
Speaker 1: In celebration of Elizabeth, the first poet, Edmund Spencer wrote
Speaker 1: The Fairy Queen in fifteen ninety and here's a sample
Speaker 1: from that. She'd bathe with roses red and violet's blue,
Speaker 1: and all the sweetest flowers that in the forest grew.
Speaker 1: And if that sounds familiar, it's really stuck around. About
Speaker 1: two centuries later, poet Joseph Johnson wrote the Roses read
Speaker 1: the Violet's blue, the honey sweet, and so are you.
Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty two, Victor Hugo included this in his
Speaker 1: play Leis Miserbla. Violets are blue, Roses are red, Violets
Speaker 1: are blue. I Love My Loves, which I actually haven't
Speaker 1: seen that play, but I was reading it about it
Speaker 1: for this research, and I'm to understand that we've largely
Speaker 1: misinterpreted as a society.
Speaker 2: I've not so I'm personally not familiar with Lima's rob
Speaker 2: I with neither the musical nor the book. Nothing about
Speaker 2: it is familiar to me. But I looked this one up.
Speaker 2: It's part of a song sung by Fantine. That's all
Speaker 2: I got for you. I would have to look further
Speaker 2: into it, which I did not do in preparation for
Speaker 2: this episode. Well, I know people are fans, so please
Speaker 2: write in, Oh, I know people are fans.
Speaker 1: Oh yes. According to what I read, though, it was
Speaker 1: kind of like it wasn't the It doesn't have the
Speaker 1: vibe we say when we say like roses are red,
Speaker 1: violets are blue. It was much more kind of like
Speaker 1: things are how they are, and that's just it.
Speaker 2: But well, if you can imagine from a piece of
Speaker 2: media titled miserab things are going poorly.
Speaker 1: Well, all right, listeners were counting on you. We could
Speaker 1: have looked it up, and we were. We skewed it
Speaker 1: because we're a food show. But here's another note that's
Speaker 1: not food related. Interestingly, thousands of years ago, poets sappho
Speaker 1: of lesbos out of ancient Greek who is a lesbian
Speaker 1: icon of history, wrote you put on many wreaths of
Speaker 1: violets and roses together by my side, and round your
Speaker 1: tender neck put many woven garlands made from flowers.
Speaker 2: So yeah, being being written about in a romantic poetic
Speaker 2: way for millennia. Violets did also figure into an ancient
Speaker 2: Greek myth about io When she was a human and
Speaker 2: when Zeus fell for her because he was irrepressibly a
Speaker 2: philander philanderer, she got turned into a cow and violets
Speaker 2: were created for her to eat. The It's the myths
Speaker 2: are unclear on who turned her into the cow, who
Speaker 2: turned her into the cow, and who gave her the violets,
Speaker 2: but that's the gist of the concept.
Speaker 1: So many of these myths revolve around, well, we turned
Speaker 1: her into x y Z animal. That's just it. Okay, Yep,
Speaker 1: just happens sometimes. Yep, it does, it does. Going back
Speaker 1: to a point I made earlier, at least since the
Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds, we see this recurring theme of the violent
Speaker 1: scent being described as melancholy or sad, as well as
Speaker 1: in terms of music. Some speculate this is because of
Speaker 1: the violet's unique fragrance properties that cause humans to experience
Speaker 1: it and burst like something fading away only to return
Speaker 1: again later. I think that's so cool.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting, it really is.
Speaker 1: I love that it got incorporated into art, even though
Speaker 1: people might not have necessarily understood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were like, this is a weird thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's be metaphorical about that. Cool.
Speaker 1: Yes, which brings us to Shakespeare. Shakespeare was a big
Speaker 1: fan of violets. Shakespeare's early sixteen hundred play Twelfth Night
Speaker 1: references them quote, oh it came so over my ear,
Speaker 1: like the sweet sound that breathes upon a bank of violets,
Speaker 1: stealing and giving odor. Enough, no more, tis not so
Speaker 1: sweet as it was before, which is the thing, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: stealing and giving odor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he wrote. Shakespeare wrote about violets a lot.
Speaker 2: That was the point at which I had to stop
Speaker 2: myself and go, like, this is a different episode. The
Speaker 2: Shakespeare references alone are a different episode, let alone anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's where I got. This whole section
Speaker 1: got me stuck, because we do love learning about that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's super fascinating and I'm a big Shakespeare nerd. Anyway,
Speaker 2: and okay, so but yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just know if you're interested, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: material out there for you.
Speaker 2: There is, and we may revisit it later.
Speaker 1: We may. Napoleon and Empress Josephine's favorite flower was reportedly
Speaker 1: the European violet. Allegedly, he would give Josephine a bouquet
Speaker 1: of them every year on their wedding anniversary. Even after
Speaker 1: he divorced and died, he was buried with the locket
Speaker 1: of her hair and some violets. Corn Twitter read Napoleon's
Speaker 1: second wife, Mary Louise, liked violets too, so they were
Speaker 1: very popular in France. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I read that those violets that he was buried with
Speaker 2: he had plucked from her grave.
Speaker 1: Ooh yeah, that's some emo.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's like Mary Shelley level emo. Yes, I adore it.
Speaker 2: Right Around this time, in the seventeen to eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 2: there are records of color changing ink being made from
Speaker 2: violet juice as a sort of parlor trick in France
Speaker 2: and England. So like going back to that color changing
Speaker 2: property of acid versus base, right, Like if you paint
Speaker 2: a piece of paper with a clear acid on one
Speaker 2: bit and a clear base on another, something like lemon
Speaker 2: juice on one part and like baking soda and water
Speaker 2: on another part. Or you know you would have used
Speaker 2: potash at the time, but sure, And then you write
Speaker 2: or draw over both sections of the paper using violet
Speaker 2: juice as your ink. You'll get reds on the acid
Speaker 2: part and then greens on the base part.
Speaker 1: That is so cool. You told me when you suggest
Speaker 1: this topic. You were like, it's going to be a
Speaker 1: lot of different avenues and you were crooks.
Speaker 2: Oh it is it is speaking of in England, violets
Speaker 2: had around this time, Ish gained an association with like
Speaker 2: shy feminine modesty, you know, the shrinking violet, possibly because
Speaker 2: of that scent thing, or possibly because the plants kind
Speaker 2: of like hide amongst other greenery.
Speaker 1: Yes, and violets were very popular during Victorian and Edwardian
Speaker 1: times in Europe, largely as a cut flower. During this time,
Speaker 1: they were really sought after for their beauty and their perfume.
Speaker 2: Both to wear on a pin or buttonhole or as
Speaker 2: a perfume or to eat as a breath freshener and
Speaker 2: a flavor of retreats.
Speaker 1: Yes. In France, there was a push to breed varieties
Speaker 1: that were more fragrant and have longer stems. A lot
Speaker 1: of different varieties were described in French sources beginning around
Speaker 1: the end of the eighteen hundreds, so they were really
Speaker 1: pushing this. This is also when violets got incorporated into
Speaker 1: all kinds of things in France, candied violets, violet syrup,
Speaker 1: violet perfumes, and ice cream. They were just looking to
Speaker 1: add it to anything. Chocolates with violet cream and topped
Speaker 1: with violets were popular in England at this time too,
Speaker 1: and yes, crim de violets brandy with added sugars and
Speaker 1: steeped in violets, has been around since at least the
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. It was typically served with something like vermouse
Speaker 1: until the Aviation cocktail, which was allegedly invented in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixteen separate episode. After a major producer closed their doors
Speaker 1: in the sixties, this product, krim de violet, almost faded
Speaker 1: away until the two thousands. Towards the end of the
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, the Hudson Valley in New
Speaker 1: York was facing this sharp economic downturn. Greenhouses owned by
Speaker 1: the wealthy weren't being maintained, and then a britishman named
Speaker 1: William Saltford got the idea to use these greenhouses to
Speaker 1: launch commercial industry around growing violets. His gambit paid off
Speaker 1: as violets became popular in fashion and in nearby cities,
Speaker 1: and that area was dubbed the violet Capital of the world.
Speaker 1: This all changed in the twenties and thirties with the
Speaker 1: fungal outbreak and the Great Depression.
Speaker 2: Huh. Meanwhile, there was a resurgence of violets as a
Speaker 2: sapphic symbol in the nineteen twenties due to this stage
Speaker 2: play called The Captive that was about lesbians and in
Speaker 2: this one scene, the lady characters exchanged oukats of violets.
Speaker 2: Supporters of the show in Paris took to wearing violets.
Speaker 2: But the play caused such a stir in New York
Speaker 2: that it got shut down by the police and apparently
Speaker 2: might have tanked the American violet floral industry.
Speaker 1: It's both sad and hilarious, as both people look me
Speaker 1: up to come on, man, these flowers are gay.
Speaker 2: Oh no, now that you mentioned that other thing about
Speaker 2: the about the Hudson Valley and the fungal outbreak. I
Speaker 2: suspect that was more the issue, but.
Speaker 1: They probably dumptailed a little bit. But yeah, but.
Speaker 2: Harper's Bizarre at the time was definitely like, oh yes,
Speaker 2: this gay play to the bane of violet growers everywhere ruined.
Speaker 1: Uh well, sweet violet production in England peaked in the
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties but then kind of went downhill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that there were a few weather events
Speaker 2: around Europe that made growing kind of difficult, starting like
Speaker 2: like around mid century. But speaking of mid century, there
Speaker 2: were a couple of different tablet style candies that were
Speaker 2: popular in the US and the UK around the mid
Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds that had violet flavoring, Parma violets and showereds violet.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you included that note, because I kept
Speaker 1: running into Parma violets and I couldn't couldn't quite figure out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just a real popular candy. But also a
Speaker 2: variety of violets that originally came from Italy that became
Speaker 2: very popular in coastal France. Especially if you start looking
Speaker 2: up like specific varietals that were developed around that area,
Speaker 2: you start hearing a lot about Parma violets.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was the first thing that came up in
Speaker 1: all my search results, and I was taken aback. So
Speaker 1: this is one of those episodes where we have talked
Speaker 1: a lot about non food stuff. I would say violets
Speaker 1: have seen a bit of a resurgence in the culinary world,
Speaker 1: at least in the US, especially when comes to cocktails
Speaker 1: or as a garnish for drinks or salads.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think all of the like fancy restaurants that
Speaker 2: I've gone to anytime within the past like five years,
Speaker 2: have had at some point a pretentious violet garnish.
Speaker 1: On the plate. Yeah. That feels about It's kind of
Speaker 1: sad because you know that they have so much more potential.
Speaker 1: But I do feel like we're when it comes to
Speaker 1: edible flowers, a lot of times we still use it
Speaker 1: as like a garnish or a nice a fancy.
Speaker 2: Salad, right right, Yeah, and like not particularly meant to
Speaker 2: be appreciated for the scent or even even to eat maybe,
Speaker 2: but yeah, but yeah, that resurgence I think was partially
Speaker 2: spurred by the Kraft cocktail movement of the early two thousands,
Speaker 2: because one of those drinks that just suddenly surged onto
Speaker 2: menus everywhere along with a few other classic was the aviation,
Speaker 2: So people were like, oh, what's this crime to be
Speaker 2: let thing?
Speaker 1: Let's go. Yeah, and as mentioned, it's a very striking cocktail.
Speaker 1: It looks pretty. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, that purple color is nice, it's pretty.
Speaker 1: It's very pretty. But listeners, if you have more experience
Speaker 1: with eating violets or drinking violets in anyway, please let
Speaker 1: us know. I'm so interested to hear.
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, yes, if you have a favorite bit of
Speaker 2: violet related poetry, let us.
Speaker 1: Know any poetry.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, if you have any good food related poetry. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but yes, that is what we have to say about
Speaker 2: violets for now. We do already have some listener mail
Speaker 2: for you, though, and we are going to get into
Speaker 2: that as soon as we get back from one more
Speaker 2: quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
Speaker 1: we're back with since is gone now but perhaps we'll
Speaker 1: come back. I love that. I think that's my favorite
Speaker 1: fact of this episode. That is so interesting to me.
Speaker 1: That ant thing is pretty cool is cool too.
Speaker 2: But but the but I'm also I'm also a little
Speaker 2: bit partial to ant facts.
Speaker 1: Yes, that makes sense to me. I spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time playing some aunt as a child. Ah, yes,
Speaker 1: I did know this about you. Yes, okay, well I'm
Speaker 1: glad we got to have an ant yes for this episode.
Speaker 1: Yes all right. Well, as mentioned, a lot of you
Speaker 1: have written in about Krispy Kreme. Please keep those messages coming.
Speaker 1: You're loving them. So Joe wrote, Krispy Kreme was always
Speaker 1: a treat when I was growing up because the nearest
Speaker 1: city with the shop was forty minutes away. If friends
Speaker 1: were in that city, they'd bring as a box and
Speaker 1: vice versa. Buying four or five dozen was just normal
Speaker 1: because of the distance. That scarcity was why Krispy kreame
Speaker 1: fundraisers were always so successful. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: everyone was willing to buy a boxer two. Nowadays, my
Speaker 1: hometown still doesn't have a dedicated store, though there are
Speaker 1: some grocery stores that carry it. It's just not the same,
Speaker 1: especially when they're hot. My hometown makes up for it
Speaker 1: by having a number of really great local donut shops.
Speaker 1: The craving is so real. Dunkin Donuts is far more
Speaker 1: ubiquitous up here. It seems like you can't turn around
Speaker 1: without tripping over one. But the nearest Krispy Cream is
Speaker 1: in the suburbs time to make a special trip.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's different things. It's different things.
Speaker 1: It is different things. But I would say, like in
Speaker 1: my experience Dunkin Donuts is I guess I can counter
Speaker 1: Dunkin Donuts mostly when I'm traveling and there's always a
Speaker 1: Dunkin Donuts. There's always an airport or in the airport. Yeah,
Speaker 1: going back to that point we made about them kind
Speaker 1: of prioritizing the like you're on the go getting.
Speaker 2: And having like breakfast sandwiches and more coffee options stuff
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but this is this is an interesting take.
Speaker 1: I mean, forty minutes away from a Krispy Cream. That's
Speaker 1: a little hard for me to envision as well, because
Speaker 1: I've got so many.
Speaker 2: Crispy Creams around.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the South is the South is where they're from.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, no, I mean like no, I mean,
Speaker 2: if you're going you might as and you're and you're
Speaker 2: traveling with them, you might as well get a few dozens.
Speaker 2: Why not? This only makes logical sense.
Speaker 1: That's a funny thing about donuts, is I feel like
Speaker 1: that donut logic always happens. It's like I might as well,
Speaker 1: get a dozen.
Speaker 2: I mean why not?
Speaker 1: Why not? I got friends, they'll eat some.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're getting one dozen, you might as well
Speaker 2: get too. I mean, what are you doing exactly?
Speaker 1: It's just smart. You're just thinking, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: You're one of the early times that I started, so
Speaker 2: I was thinking about starting a food show when we
Speaker 2: went to Austin together along with a number of our
Speaker 2: other coworkers for south By Southwest. And one of the
Speaker 2: things that made me go, like, what about Annie, you
Speaker 2: should be on a food show was when you you
Speaker 2: had a tip that if you showed up between shift
Speaker 2: changes at Voodoo Donuts, they'll give you a bucket of donuts,
Speaker 2: like a bucket, like a five gallon bucket of donuts,
Speaker 2: and they'll basically just give it to you. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I was like, Annie knows, what's up?
Speaker 1: Like this is great, we need this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we got a bucket of donuts because of course
Speaker 1: we did. Of course, I was lovely. It was lovely.
Speaker 1: It was that was a good time. We had a
Speaker 1: good time. Yeah, yeah, what a weird but lovely trip. Yes, indeed, Carrie.
Speaker 2: Wrote hello and thank you for yet another episode full
Speaker 2: of nostalgia for me. Have you done an episode on
Speaker 2: Lance sandwich crackers. We call them nabs. If you do that,
Speaker 2: I may very well travel back in time. For me,
Speaker 2: Krispy Kreme and church go together like well donuts and coffee.
Speaker 2: Here in North Carolina, you can never go wrong bringing
Speaker 2: a dozen glazed to church. You won't have any leftovers either.
Speaker 2: Decades ago, someone had the idea to provide Sunday school
Speaker 2: students with SODA's and Krispy Kreme right before classes began.
Speaker 2: That didn't last long, as the kids threw themselves at
Speaker 2: the snack table and got all sugared up before having
Speaker 2: to sit still for forty five minutes. My parents would
Speaker 2: very occasionally drive by Krispy Cream on the way home
Speaker 2: from church just to see if they had hot donuts,
Speaker 2: and of course it would be a shame not to
Speaker 2: stop in while those donuts were hot, but most of
Speaker 2: the time we took a different route home from church.
Speaker 2: My favorites are the original Glazed and the crueler Ah memories.
Speaker 1: This is so interesting that you wrote in about this
Speaker 1: because I used to. I struggled to sit through church
Speaker 1: as a kid, and my parents would offer me a
Speaker 1: donut after.
Speaker 2: Oh the marshmallow test.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 2: You can have this thing later if you really behave
Speaker 2: yourself right now.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so I can't imagine if i'd have the
Speaker 1: donut before.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no that point. Yeah, you're hyped up. You've
Speaker 2: had a treat. No, no, that's not gonna work out. Well, no,
Speaker 2: but they are. I mean again, you get a dozen donuts.
Speaker 2: It's great for an event. It's easy, and people love them.
Speaker 2: People love them.
Speaker 1: They bring joy and it.
Speaker 2: Would be a shame not to stop while the donuts
Speaker 2: are hot.
Speaker 1: That's how they get you. You can't not stop if
Speaker 1: the hot signs on.
Speaker 2: I just drive responsibly.
Speaker 1: Yes, look before you turn.
Speaker 2: Now. I'm wondering how many people in Atlanta have like
Speaker 2: a near death Krispy Kream related experience.
Speaker 1: I think the number is probably pretty high, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I suspect so as well. Wow, listeners, if you've had
Speaker 1: a dangerous encounter with Krispy Kreme or any Krispy Creame stories,
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. You can email
Speaker 1: us at hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2: We are also on social media. You can find us
Speaker 2: on blue Sky and Instagram at savor pod, and we
Speaker 2: do hope to hear from you savor is production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
Speaker 2: and we hope that lots more good things are coming
Speaker 2: your way.