WEBVTT - Stop scrolling, with Ruby Ryba 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:09.320 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:15.080 This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.159 episode will be a slightly longer one part of the 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:21.239 series where I interview fascinating people about how they take 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.239 their days from great to awesome and any advice they 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:25.439 have for the rest of us. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:26.720 So today I. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.240 Am delighted to welcome Ruby Riba to Before Breakfast. Ruby 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:32.600 is an expert on tech use and the author of 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.720 the book How to Stop Scrolling. Ruby, Welcome to the show. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.159 Hi, Laura, thank you so much for having me this morning. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.360 Thanks for having it coming on. I'm glad to have 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.000 you here. Why don't you tell our listeners a little 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.560 bit about yourself. Sure, my name's Ruby Riba. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.920 I'm a screen time strategist, so I recently wrote the 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.640 book How to Stop Scrolling. My mission is for people 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:53.920 to be in charge of their phone use. You know, 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.680 I can't tell anyone how they should use their phones. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:01.240 I don't know you, but if you your life is 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.959 not totally aligned with how you're using your phone, that's 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.160 where I come in and I can help you through 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.679 design and through some reassuring encouragement that we've all been 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.920 where you might be right now exactly? 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.400 And how does one get into this line of work? 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.679 I would say curiosity. Curiosity got me here. I was 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.440 curious about it just for my own sake and for 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.000 my own family. Like you, I've always been really interested 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:30.040 in productivity, and I think intentionality comes hand in hand 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.880 with productivity, because if you're being very productive at something 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.840 completely unnecessary or relevant to you, that's not really helpful, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:40.399 is it. And then as I started having kids, I 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.240 just it became more and more high stakes. You know, 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:47.840 how do we interact with technology in a meaningful way 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.040 that is aligned with our values? So I started thinking, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.200 you know, since technology is designed to draw us in, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.720 I should be able to also counter design on my side, 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:59.600 a way to interact with it the way I want to. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.360 And that's sort of where my personal research started. And 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.960 the more I talked about it with other people, because 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.120 whenever I'm talking to someone, I'm telling them what I'm 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.799 thinking about right now, what I'm curious about and learning about, 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.239 the more people said, oh wow, like can you send 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.160 some of this to me? Or like started asking me 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.280 questions on how they should navigate their things. 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:18.960 And I started realizing that this is something that. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.519 Could be of service to other people, and that's how 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.600 I decided to turn it into a book. But it's 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.160 really been something I enjoy and I'm very passionate about it. 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.000 Absolutely. Well, you have three pillars of scrolling less. I 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:32.880 wonder if you could run through those with us. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:33.640 Yes, of course. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.520 So in my research and with coaching people, I found 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.359 that behavior change that sticks needs these three pillars. So 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.200 one is design over willpower. So what I mean by 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.000 that is when you are in a situation that you 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.880 wish were different, instead of kicking yourself and wishing that 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.400 you could grit through it, you want to design the 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.840 situation to be better next time. So an example of 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.000 that that we could probably all relate to is, let's 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.800 say you're trying to eat healthier and you're meeting a 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.560 friend for breakfast, and you're telling yourself, don't eat the 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.760 chocolate croissant, don't eat the chocolate cissant, don't order it, 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:08.400 don't order it. 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:10.240 That's using willpower. 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.840 Or you could say, hey, could we meet at the 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.840 smoothie place instead? Then you don't have to use willpower. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:20.079 You've designed yourself what you want, So design over willpower 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.520 when it comes to your phone might look like if 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.560 you notice that you're scrolling a lot before bed, maybe 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.600 you don't plug your phone in at night next to 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:27.480 your bedside table. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:29.320 Or if you notice that. 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.840 You're getting a lot of notifications when you're trying to write, 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.520 you turn the notifications off or you you move the 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.160 phone away. So design usually exists in two realms, the 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.920 physical environment and phone settings. So that's my first pillar 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.680 design over willpower. The second pillar is to not leave 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.880 a vacuum. So when you remove the phone, what will 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.880 you place instead? So if you used to charge your 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.120 phone on your bedside table and it's not there, now, 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.760 do you just have like a blank bedside table and 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.200 do you stare at the ceiling at night? 0:03:58.280 --> 0:03:58.360 No? 0:03:58.480 --> 0:03:58.640 Right? 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.360 I mean if you do, you're probably going to be 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.320 back on your phone tomorrow night, So you need to 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.320 think about what you'd want to insert instead. And then finally, 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.040 the last pillar is to be kind to yourself. So 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.400 my little slogan is that scrolling is a signal, not 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.520 a stepback. So when you find yourself scrolling, that is 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.320 an indicator that you need to think about again at 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.920 the design level. And that's why these are also interconnected. 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.360 How can I design this to be different next time, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.840 or maybe it's okay. Like sometimes if I'm traveling, if 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:30.680 I'm in a hotel room and my phone is in 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.120 a different place than usual, i might notice that I'm 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.440 on my phone more or something, and maybe I'm only 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:37.920 going to be here for another couple of days, so 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:39.920 it's really not a big deal and I'm not going to. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.280 Overhaul the design of my hotel room, you know. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.720 And so thinking about that and reminding yourself that it's 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.240 not all about willpower can be really powerful. 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.640 So absolutely, so let's talk a little bit about the 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:56.600 practicalities of sort of ways to change the design. As 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.440 we're you know, designing for no use it our phones 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.320 less but not relying on willpower. One of the times 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.640 that I think people notice they have these certain on ramps, 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.400 there are certain cues that they always pick up their 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.080 phone and start scrolling. What are some ways we can 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.480 design to change that? 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.360 So I think the first the first thing is just awareness. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.919 So when you start to notice some of these on ramps, 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.359 you're going to be less likely to follow them. So 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.800 when someone else goes on their phone at a dinner, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.640 you might notice your hand just starts moving towards your 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.520 pocket to get your phone out. When you notice that, 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:33.640 you can get rid of it. And then when it 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:34.320 comes to. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.360 I call it like your drug of choice app. 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.679 So a lot of people have a drug of choice app, 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.480 like probably know which one it is while you're listening 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.400 to this show. And so with that, with design, you 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.120 can use distraction blockers. You can there are many apps 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.400 that you can download that will block it. You could 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.880 use the brick, you could just remove it from your 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.360 home screen. There's lots of different ways. So I guess 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.280 it really depends on the on ramp, but I do 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:01.880 think that noticing it is the first step. 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.880 And what about proximity, I mean you said often it's 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.000 because the phone is right there that is very easy 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.080 to pick up. What are some ways that we can 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.320 kind of get some of the functionality of the phone 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.520 but keep keep it at a kind of arms length. 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.200 Yeah, So I believe in something called drop zones. So 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.640 there are two important drop zones in your life that 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.240 will change your life. So the first is where you 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.320 charge your phone at night, which we've spoken about a bit. 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.919 And the reason this is so powerful is because with 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.360 this one action, you are actually changing your life in 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.240 two times of your day at night and also when 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.400 you wake up in the morning. Now, where you place 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.120 your phone, I've told you not to place it on 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.080 your bedside table, but where you decide to place it 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.400 is also going to q when your phone enters the 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.760 scene in the morning. So if you put your phone 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:47.360 in the bathroom and as soon as you wake up, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.200 you go to the bathroom, then like congratulations, ten seconds 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.240 into your morning, you're on your phone. Right, So you 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.520 want to think about where you want it to enter 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:55.719 the scene and then. 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:56.200 Put it there. 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:58.919 So that's the first drop zone should think about. And 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.360 the second drop zone is and you get home. So 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:03.919 people usually have a place to put their keys and 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.560 their shoes, but not their phone, And so if there's 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.040 no home for your phone, it's just going. 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:09.200 To follow you around the house. 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.200 So I like to keep it in a drop zone, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.239 and I have one on both floors in my home. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.720 And then I keep my ringer on and I only 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.240 keep important notifications on. So that means that even if 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.360 my phone is not right next to me, I will 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.320 hear it ding. And of course nothing is perfect. Sometimes 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.640 I miss calls, sometimes I miss texts, but I'm okay 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:29.880 with that. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.040 Because you're gonna have. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:33.560 You're either going to be a little bit too plugged 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:35.680 in or a little bit not plugged in enough, and 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:37.800 so you kind of have to choose which one you're 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:39.920 more willing to take on. 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:42.560 Sounds good, All right, Well we're going to take a 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.560 quick ad break and I'll be back with more from 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:54.480 Ruby Riba. Well, I am back talking with Ruby Riba, 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.760 who's the author of How to Stop Scrolling. So you 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.400 mentioned I mean one of the reasons people have their 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.480 phones on them is their phones are very functional. I 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.600 mean not just for reaching people, which their obvious purpose, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:12.080 but things like tracking my steps right or reading if 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:13.720 I have a bit of time, Like the phone's always 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:15.200 on there, you can read the New York Times, you 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.160 can read a new book, listening to music. Are there 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.880 you talk about dedicated devices and way of sort of 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:22.960 breaking up some of these functionalities. I wonder if you 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:23.640 can talk about that. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:28.080 Yes, So, our phone has so many abilities, as you mentioned, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.960 which is wonderful and it's really useful, especially for those 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.800 one off times where you like need the compass or something. 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:35.520 We don't need to be carrying a compass around with us, 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.240 but wow, our phone can be a compass for us. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:39.079 But when you notice that you're. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.640 Continuously reaching for the phone for the same thing, then 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.160 that's a cue for me that maybe you should have 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.120 a dedicated device. And so for me, I use timers 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.839 a lot, both like for my kids like TV time 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.800 or cooking, or even just for myself, like I hate cleaning, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:57.720 so I'll like I'll be like, okay, just clean for 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.360 five minutes, and I put a five minute timer on. 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.040 And so I have a few timers around the house. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.840 My kids know how to use them, and that really 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.000 helps because now I'm removing the on ramp of the phone. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.800 And I also think that you get to personalize your 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.440 life that way. You get to decorate your home with 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.560 artifacts of who you are. You know, so if you 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.120 listen to a lot of music and you have a 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.920 record player. My one of my best friends, her family 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.719 has a record player, and it's a family routine now 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.520 to pick out these records. And you'll also find that 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:29.720 a lot of these things when you get the dedicated 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:31.840 device a little more tactile. You know, whether it's the 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.600 timer or the record, it's more tactile, and so you 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.120 can really fully enjoy it more so anything that you 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.120 yeah you use a lot on your phone. There's a 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.319 dedicated device for that. And we don't need one hundred 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.480 dedicated devices, but two or three might really change how 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:46.720 many times you pick up your phone. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:48.600 What would you recommend for reading? 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.120 For reading, I mean, I think variety is key, Like 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.720 you want to have different things accessible for you for 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.480 different situations. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.360 So I use a Kindle. I also so use paper books. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.280 The Kindle's great, especially if you, you know, sleep with 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.280 a partner. I can still read the Kindle when my 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:13.040 husband's sleeping. It's useful for travel. I use the Libby app, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:18.439 which I love, where you can borrow kindle and audiobooks 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.200 from your local library. And yeah, actually I recently started 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.800 reading because I've never read fully The Count of Monte Cristo, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:26.960 and it's my husband's favorite book. 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:28.200 And I was like, okay, I got to read this. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.079 I feel like it's like a very dramatic sitcom right now, 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.400 side note, but anyway, I was. 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.400 Reading hilarious that it's his favorite book. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.800 But okay, yeah, now you know something about my husband 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.720 favorite book. And I'm going to learn something about my 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:42.400 husband too while reading this, Like I know the general 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:43.439 you are, but yeah. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.280 You are you are you're going to learn something about him? 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:46.000 But anyway, go on. 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:47.679 Anyway with stories. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.120 For me, I often prefer a paper book because I 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.360 like to know how far along in the story I am. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.240 It just helps me like understand the shape of the 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.320 story more. And so yeah, I picked it up at 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.720 the library yesterday. God, I have a long way to ghost. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.480 You have a long way to go. It's a thick 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.640 one for sure. Well, speaking of reading and things like that, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.880 I mean, you talk about replacing screen time with something else, 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.600 and I love the question of the way you put 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.680 it in your book of what would you do with 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.520 an extra ten hours a week? Because often, you know, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.000 I come into this and I ask people this somewhat 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:22.560 silly question of like what would you do with an 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.679 extra hour? Right? And people are like, oh, all the 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.880 amazing things I do, and here you're like ten hours. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.120 I'm guessing many, even very pusy people are on their 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.400 phones doing things that are not a top priority for 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.920 ten hours a week. I mean, is that where you're 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:37.880 getting that question from? 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.400 Yes, I mean, on average, the average American uses their 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.760 phone for more than thirty seven and a half hours 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.720 a week, so almost a full time job. 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.320 So yeah, I love the exercise of what would you do. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.240 I'm gifting you ten hours, and then when you think 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.839 about it, you can actually gift that to yourself pretty 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.240 easily because when you look at your screen time, I 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.800 guarantee you almost all the listeners are on their phone 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.240 for more than ten hours a week. And I mean, 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.400 of course, some of it is things we need to do. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:05.600 I pay for parking with my phone, I respond to 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.600 emails with my phone, I pay. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:08.120 Bills, whatever. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.840 But if you're like I never have time to stretch, 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.280 It's like, Okay, if stretching picks five minutes and you're 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:14.920 on your phone for. 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.319 Thirty hours a week, I feel like there's time for that. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.719 Yeah. Well, I think your quote is the time is there. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.240 It's the energy and intention that's missing, which is which 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.240 is a different matter, right, Like, I mean, time and 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.280 energy and intention are related, but they are not the 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:30.880 same things. 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.840 Yes, very true, and they work beautifully together. But we 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:34.600 need all three. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.240 So how can we make hobbies and leisure as attractive 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.560 as what are in effect our electronic hobbies on our phone? 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:42.000 Yes? 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.760 So first, I think we talked a little bit about 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.280 proximity earlier. So just like we want to increase the proximity, 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.360 get our phones away from us. We want we want 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:53.960 the things that we want to do closer to us. 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.160 So if you want to be stretching, maybe you put 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.440 a phone roller next to your desk at home so 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.440 that you can be doing those things. You want to 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.120 surround yourself with the things that you want to be 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.520 doing instead of using your phone. And I think the 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.560 other really important thing is to make sure that you 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.480 have variety. I think that So when I asked that 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.120 question to someone I was coaching months ago, I remember 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.320 she was like, I want to learn more about the 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:16.319 electoral College. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.120 And I was like, that's great, but like that's kind of. 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.480 Like having your favorite book be The Count of Monte Cristo. 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:27.199 By the way, exactly, yeah, nerd alert no. So I 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.240 was like, that's great, but like maybe it's just me. 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.200 But if I'm like it's an end of a long 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.720 day and my choices are scroll through Instagram or like 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.360 learn about the electoral College, I'm pretty sure I'm going 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.240 to scroll. So you you know, we are nuanced, layered people, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.360 and so you want to create all those different things. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.560 So actually, one thing that I've started getting into because 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.600 my daughter's into it is bracelet making, Like she was like, mom, 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.240 can you help me with this bracelet? And now sometimes 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.160 when we're like when I'm talking to my husband and night, 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:55.520 I'm just like, oh, like, let me just make one 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.880 more bracelet. But that's like that's something that literally a 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.360 six year old can do, you know. And so you 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.200 want to meet yourself at all of your levels. What 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.040 does the six year old you want to do? Or 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.200 sometimes maybe you want like a tabloid or a trashy 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.400 magazine Like that's fine too, you know. And so to 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.280 make sure that we're not just curating something for this 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:18.280 like idealized, imaginary, higher moral self and looking at things 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.920 for our whole self and then to make that really 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.200 accessible and I think, sorry, So. 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.960 Think about things that your very low energy self. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.240 Can do, yes, and matching those things, you know, thinking 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.400 about your energy levels throughout the day. What do you 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.000 like doing in the morning, in the afternoon, at night, 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.160 what about a work break, what about something social? Think 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.200 about like all your different selves and also just taking 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.960 that time to think about what those things are. 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.120 And I imagine there's a time element here too, because 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.040 of one of the attractive things about a phone is 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.960 it can fill thirty seconds, it can fill three hours, 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.280 like it will do either of those if you ask 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.600 it too. Yes, and a lot of other things do 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.760 not equally fill thirty seconds or three hours. So how 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.400 can we sort of design our hobbies to fit that 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:02.200 to solve that problem. 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:02.920 That's a great question. 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:04.920 Yeah, So I used to have a menu for myself 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:06.600 where I said, Okay, if I had one minute, I 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.240 can do box breathing. If I have five minutes, I 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.800 can like stretch. And so you can make menus for 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.360 yourself of what would I do with one five thirty minutes, 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.800 sixty minutes, Like I love going to yoga classes, but 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.600 I'm going to need more than an hour for that, 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.000 And so you're going to be setting yourself up for 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:22.600 failure if you're not taking the time. 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.680 Comes straight into consideration. Great question. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.680 And then one practical tip you gave people to consider 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:30.720 about having little space in your life where you are 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.440 just not on your phone. I think bathroom breaks that 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.040 a challenge you're giving to people. 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.880 I think, so I just I feel like it's not necessary. 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.840 And I also, I mean people talk about how they 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:43.760 have their best ideas in the shower, you know, And 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.800 I think we're losing a lot of that meditative time 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.120 where we're kind of zoning out and we have great ideas. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.120 So you know, if everyone gets off their phones while 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:54.920 they're going to the bathroom, I bet you we're just 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:56.160 gonna humanity. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.840 We'll have so many more great ideas. I'm excited for that. 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:00.640 Or spend less time in the bathroom. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.080 Where's the most time in the bathroom? Yeah, it does 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.240 not take that long for sure. For sure. 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:05.840 All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:07.480 ad break and then i'll be back with more from 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:17.680 Ruby Riba. Well, I am back talking with Ruby Riba, 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.160 who is the author of How to Stop Scrolling. So 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.560 we've been talking a little bit about your schedule already, 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.760 but I want to pivot a bit more to how 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.440 you structure your time because this podcast is all about 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.440 time management. Do you have any sort of morning routine. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.640 Yeah, I would say that my kids keep my schedule 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.760 pretty rigid. So I wake up at six thirty, thankfully 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.680 before they do. I make their breakfast and lunches, I 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:42.520 get them ready, I get them out the door, and 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.640 then it's kind of like my morning finally begins at 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:46.200 that point. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:47.000 I do still have a. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:48.880 Baby at home, but I bring her down to the 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.880 gym with me, and she has a little jumper and 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.880 she's jumping in her jumper while I do my workout. 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.560 We spend a little more time together and then I 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.480 pass her off to ro pair and I start my 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:00.880 work day. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.240 And what do you tend to do at the beginning 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:04.879 of your work day? How do you structure all that? 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.680 So I usually spend about two hours. If I don't 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.639 have meetings, I get out of the house, so I 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.199 go to a local coffee shop or a library, and 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.480 I spend two hours there taking care of emails, working 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.760 that sort of thing. And then as the day goes on, 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.680 I shift from book like author mom to author to mom. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:26.840 Basically as the day goes on, it like creeps in 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:28.160 more and more. 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.320 And how do you keep yourself focused while you are writing? 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.359 I mean, this is this is always an interesting question 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.080 to me because some writing is like you have all 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.240 your stuff and you're just writing, and other times you're 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.040 engaging with other things. There are things in your email, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.520