Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hey
Speaker 1: Whipsmarti's one of our favorite early guests, is back on
Speaker 1: the podcast today. We are joined by none other than
Speaker 1: award winning comedian and Whitney Cummings. You know her for
Speaker 1: her bold, observational humor, and currently she is on the
Speaker 1: road with her Big Baby North America Tour, exploring some
Speaker 1: pretty signature themes of relationships, gender dynamics, and modern dating
Speaker 1: from a very new perspective that includes being a mom,
Speaker 1: what it's like to age, and societal expectations of all
Speaker 1: those things. She has so many great stories and laughs
Speaker 1: and so much wisdom to share, and I'm just so
Speaker 1: thrilled that she is here today. So let's dive in.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you back. I feel like
Speaker 1: we had the best conversation. You were one of my
Speaker 1: first guests on the pod in twenty nineteen. We made
Speaker 1: all these plans to hang out and ride horses, and
Speaker 1: then the world shut down, and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm just never going to be social again.
Speaker 1: But I feel like we're getting We're getting back to
Speaker 1: it now.
Speaker 2: I also think, I mean, this might be a hot take,
Speaker 2: but like we do also get to socialize for public consumption,
Speaker 2: which is slightly toxic but also radically feminist to just
Speaker 2: monetize our friendships like everyone's too busy whatever. I mean,
Speaker 2: it is funny because whenever I hang out with a
Speaker 2: girlfriend of mine or run into a female comic friend
Speaker 2: of mine at the comedy store, it's always like ten
Speaker 2: minutes in to where they're like, shitd you want a pod?
Speaker 2: Like like, why are we doing this for free?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm obsessed. We were just saying we
Speaker 1: were getting the camera set up for this and it
Speaker 1: was a little wide, and they were like, oh, well
Speaker 1: we can see your feet on the couch. I was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: free feet.
Speaker 2: That was so funny.
Speaker 1: No one gets free feet, And you're right, no one.
Speaker 1: No one should get free free hangs either. I guess yes.
Speaker 2: It's like women make money from, you know, exploiting their bodies.
Speaker 2: We exploit our personalities and vulnerabilities and personal lives.
Speaker 1: I'll take it. I'll take it. We'll talk about I
Speaker 1: mean changes in personal lives for both of us. Hello,
Speaker 1: you have a baby.
Speaker 2: I have a baby.
Speaker 1: As being a mom, well, the.
Speaker 2: Good news is currently my toddler gets along well with
Speaker 2: my inner child.
Speaker 1: Okay, great.
Speaker 2: The concern was that they is my inner child and
Speaker 2: my actual child gonna get along, and they do. It's
Speaker 2: a trip. I mean, look, I don't have to tell you,
Speaker 2: like I just always thought, in order to have a kid,
Speaker 2: you have to have the guy. And so my brain, like,
Speaker 2: you know, just this socially constructed timeline. Even though half
Speaker 2: the people in my life at least got the guy,
Speaker 2: then the kid then broke up with the guy, but
Speaker 2: I was still going, I got to get the guy first,
Speaker 2: even though there was very little proof that that was
Speaker 2: a working formula, right or anyone. And I froze my
Speaker 2: eggs when I was thirty three. Highly recommend whenever anyone
Speaker 2: asks me for advice about literally anything, I just go.
Speaker 2: Don't ask your parents for a trip to Italy when
Speaker 2: you graduate, or those shoes or that purse. Just go
Speaker 2: freeze your eggs. It's like an insurance policy. You get
Speaker 2: car insurance. The goal is you never actually get in
Speaker 2: a car accident. Just put your on ice. For many reasons,
Speaker 2: because I did find myself doing this math, you know
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, I'm thirty two, I'm dating this guy,
Speaker 2: all right, so we have a year before we'd and
Speaker 2: then a year would take a year to get pregnant.
Speaker 2: And then I'm like dating guy with a chain wallet
Speaker 2: because I'm lowering my bar over and over. Like I
Speaker 2: guess I just have to date a guy who wears
Speaker 2: a rope as a belt, all right, you know, because
Speaker 2: you start doing the math of like the cutoff, they
Speaker 2: start calling it a geriatric pregnanc Yet thirty five they
Speaker 2: say you're sane.
Speaker 1: It's like insane.
Speaker 2: Seventy five year old Smithers told me I was having
Speaker 2: a geriatric So I was kind of like, I guess
Speaker 2: I'm never gonna have a kid. I guess I'm gonna adopt.
Speaker 2: I did kind of for a while because you know,
Speaker 2: this year, like this too, I rescue animals, and I
Speaker 2: was like, maybe I should adopt, Like is having your
Speaker 2: own kid kind of like getting a dog from a
Speaker 2: breeder at this point, like I should be adopting. There's
Speaker 2: so many kids who needs homes. And then I went
Speaker 2: through pretty hardcore grief after the pandemic, which all of
Speaker 2: us just scrambled our brains. I did experiment with edibles
Speaker 2: during the pandemic. Oh wasn't a match for my brain. Okay,
Speaker 2: so was making a lot of bad choices in the
Speaker 2: romantic area.
Speaker 1: I did that too, It's okay, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean it was just like two edibles and I'm dating
Speaker 2: a rock climber, like should we'd be legal? Unclear? And
Speaker 2: also a bigger thing is I was on birth control,
Speaker 2: which I was on for migraines. I think, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: I got these date piercings, the piercings on the inside
Speaker 2: of here on both sides.
Speaker 1: Does it help?
Speaker 2: Placibo effect is an effect, So if that's why it works, fine,
Speaker 2: sixty percent effective. I'm obsessed with opening a medical practice
Speaker 2: that's just placebo effect because placebo effect is actually higher
Speaker 2: than the effect of most yes drugs.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's kind of a genius idea.
Speaker 2: And so I was on birth control, which there's all
Speaker 2: this sort of look I'm the first person to poke
Speaker 2: holes and like research but showing that when you're on
Speaker 2: birth control you're attracted to a different kind of partner
Speaker 2: because you smell pheromones differently. Your body thinks it's you know,
Speaker 2: so you're attracted to a different kind of person. They
Speaker 2: say that if you're going to get married, get engaged,
Speaker 2: go off birth control for a year before you get
Speaker 2: the government involved. To me, make sure that you're still
Speaker 2: attracted to that person.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So I went off birth control, I went off prozac
Speaker 2: in my like grief, I just forgot to take it all,
Speaker 2: you know. And and I was hanging out with this awesome,
Speaker 2: awesome guy who you know, it's interesting, Like this might
Speaker 2: sound savage, but I think there's something so cool about
Speaker 2: it where I was like, look, I know I'm not
Speaker 2: your match. And look in exes, my new favorite thing
Speaker 2: is to just go, we weren't a match. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't have to give them a diagnosis. They're a narcissist,
Speaker 2: they're this maybe, but also we just weren't a match,
Speaker 2: and like that's fine. And instead of like carrying all
Speaker 2: these negative terms about exes, you know, and so we're
Speaker 2: just not a match. Like they are a pathological liar
Speaker 2: and I'm not.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know nothing I do about that.
Speaker 2: I just well, that's they're actors. They lie for a living.
Speaker 2: They went prizes for lying, so you know, but I
Speaker 2: try to just like take all that negativity out of
Speaker 2: it and whatever of superiority I need to, like, you know,
Speaker 2: I was like, we're not a match. He's younger than me,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, look, I want you to be able
Speaker 2: to like have all these like life experiences with somebody
Speaker 2: who isn't so road hard and put away wet and
Speaker 2: so like, oh I overrated.
Speaker 1: Like you should be able to like go enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Go to Cancun please.
Speaker 2: And this there is this next generation of younger guys
Speaker 2: that are like actually like not monsters. They grew up
Speaker 2: with like Beyonce and Michelle Obama, like they kind of
Speaker 2: only saw a black president, you know, for most of
Speaker 2: their life. And you know, they grew up with like
Speaker 2: Brene Brown, and a lot of video games, I gotta say,
Speaker 2: are like about chivalry and a lot of them are
Speaker 2: about killing hookers. But there's some that are you know,
Speaker 2: there's these Dungeons of Dragons guys, and these they're very cringe,
Speaker 2: but like ren Fair guys.
Speaker 1: Oh one of my best friends, and I love a
Speaker 1: ren Fair, very very pro Sophia.
Speaker 2: Wait, we're going?
Speaker 1: No, I have okay, So are we going?
Speaker 2: No? Are we going? I've already DMed ren Fair. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to be the queen for the for the year.
Speaker 2: So the rent Fair Queen. It's a year, it's equipment.
Speaker 2: I d M them and they and they actually, I'm
Speaker 2: on I've been left on Red by the Fair.
Speaker 1: So they've seen it.
Speaker 2: Wow, and it's it's tougher than like getting rejected on Rayah.
Speaker 2: You you don't know rejection the Rent Fair. Uh, is
Speaker 2: like we're good. But Lindsay Sterling and I go together
Speaker 2: and and here's this thing. I'm so curious and I
Speaker 2: want to shut up asap. I'm going to get TMJ
Speaker 2: on this podcast, but I just am so excited to
Speaker 2: talk to you. Is there anything that you're doing in
Speaker 2: life as an adult work, because I'm always looking for
Speaker 2: like hobbies as entertainers. It's like, what are we doing
Speaker 2: to be entertained? Where you're doing something kind of to
Speaker 2: make fun of it or kind of as a joke,
Speaker 2: and then you're like, no, I'm just doing it like
Speaker 2: I've been to the Renfair now like six times, like
Speaker 2: as a joke, and I'm like, yeah, oh, I just
Speaker 2: go to the ren Fair.
Speaker 1: Okay. So yes, I have discovered and I thought it
Speaker 1: was ironic and that I was being very contrariant and
Speaker 1: silly with my girlfriends. I'm just a Disney adult and
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was a Disney Adult. But then
Speaker 1: I went to Disneyland, went on rides with all my friends,
Speaker 1: eight corn dogs all day. There are every delicious food
Speaker 1: from around the world, including Little Begnet's are at Disneyland,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I used to be like
Speaker 1: why are grown ups going to Disneyland? And I want
Speaker 1: to go all the time.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's break this down because I think I'm someone
Speaker 2: who historically maybe poked fun at Disney adults because I
Speaker 2: didn't have Disney in my childhood.
Speaker 1: I think we went one time in my childho like,
Speaker 1: I don't, It's great.
Speaker 2: I went one time. One of my best girlfriends is
Speaker 2: Jennifer Goodwin. She played snow White Princess, Yes, a princess,
Speaker 2: and Josh Dallas is whatever. So we went and they're like,
Speaker 2: they're like gods there right, and we had a tour guide.
Speaker 2: And I'm such a weirdo. I didn't grow up around Disney.
Speaker 2: I didn't. We didn't. I didn't really have a childhood
Speaker 2: like I, you know, so I'm asking all these questions
Speaker 2: about like the park. I'm obsessed with the park. I
Speaker 2: My algorithm is all princesses that used to work at
Speaker 2: Disney telling all the secrets of like what they had
Speaker 2: to wear makeup wise and what because the Disney Princess
Speaker 2: is very strict rules. They're not allowed to say certain things,
Speaker 2: you know, and like who are they? I'm just fascinated
Speaker 2: the makeup they have to wear all of it, and
Speaker 2: they don't. They can't pee, they can't go to the bathroom,
Speaker 2: they can't eat, they can't drink water, like none of it.
Speaker 2: And so I'm asking all these questions to this guys,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, so, what's the deal with the with
Speaker 2: the pedophiles? What's to do? How do you guys keep
Speaker 2: them out? And uh? Because there's this whole underground like.
Speaker 1: Jail, and I've heard about this. I want to see it.
Speaker 2: And I think it's like one in every like thirty
Speaker 2: people at Disneyland is an undercover cop. And if you
Speaker 2: really just sit that and then you'll watch someone just
Speaker 2: go up to a guy and be like, hey, dude,
Speaker 2: you're gonna come with me. We're going for a walk
Speaker 2: like they have it obviously, you know, so hardcore, so
Speaker 2: dial nock and then I'm like, that's the only place
Speaker 2: I want to be at a time when you're like
Speaker 2: the Epstein List and all these creeps are everywhere. I
Speaker 2: live at Disneyland, where their policy is no crepes.
Speaker 1: No creeps. I love that. If that could be a
Speaker 1: policy everywhere outside of Disneyland also, I would be so grateful.
Speaker 2: But unfortunately, I think girls should just be able to
Speaker 2: go there for like girls' nights because there's no grapes,
Speaker 2: or at least they handle the crepes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the cats.
Speaker 2: You know, they let out one hundred cats at night
Speaker 2: to take care of the rat problem, just to make
Speaker 2: sure there's no rats.
Speaker 1: Love it every night.
Speaker 2: I love the Disneyland like what I love that.
Speaker 1: You of the lore.
Speaker 2: It's a whole city. There's a city underneath I mean
Speaker 2: Disney Like there's a city. So I'm sure that being
Speaker 2: a you know, do you look back at anything that
Speaker 2: used to make fun of or not like and then
Speaker 2: realize it's because you were becoming it, Like we kind
Speaker 2: of become what we hate. Like whatever we resist persist
Speaker 2: or you know whatever. Adage kind of like works. But
Speaker 2: I find whenever I'm like, oh, Disney adults, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of like, I feel like that's on the rise of me.
Speaker 2: That's probably why I'm like resisting so hard. It's like
Speaker 2: when you're like mean to a guy, you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I actually just like you.
Speaker 1: Well, so really the point of this podcast is we're
Speaker 1: going to Disneyland.
Speaker 2: Together, sold and ren Fair and Renfair.
Speaker 1: Let's go okay wait, but when you were talking about
Speaker 1: ren Fair, you were also talking about the sort of younger,
Speaker 1: more gentle dudes that go to a ren Fair. So
Speaker 1: where where's that train going?
Speaker 2: And next generation of God not all of them. I
Speaker 2: can't speak for all of them. We only see the
Speaker 2: reddish stuff and the negative stuff. But I think the
Speaker 2: next generation of guys is going the opposite way from
Speaker 2: these like porn obsessed, like you know, checked out, over
Speaker 2: stimulated with women.
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of younger guys that are not
Speaker 2: using porn, and they're like their kink is like love
Speaker 2: because that's the kinkiest thing you can do at this point,
Speaker 2: is like one woman like missionary and like eye contact
Speaker 2: and like kissing because like it was so extreme for them,
Speaker 2: this like Pendulum is like swinging back and he's just
Speaker 2: this like just the I don't know, I just became
Speaker 2: obsessed with him and I was like, I know I'm
Speaker 2: not your wife, like, but can I just go off
Speaker 2: birth control and if it happens, it happens. Because you
Speaker 2: might not be my husband, I might not be your wife,
Speaker 2: but you are a father. Like just I see it
Speaker 2: so clearly.
Speaker 1: And that's what happened.
Speaker 2: That's what happened.
Speaker 1: Ah, and what's what's the non relationship relationship?
Speaker 2: Now it's the best we're There was this part of
Speaker 2: me that was like, make it work, make it work,
Speaker 2: make it work, to have this new year family that
Speaker 2: you always wanted. And it was like, that's not fair
Speaker 2: to him. You know. I think that we forget sometimes
Speaker 2: as women when you're in any relationship, or guys probably
Speaker 2: do it too. I just can't speak to that where
Speaker 2: you're like, you know, I need to make this work,
Speaker 2: like you know what, Just can you imagine if you
Speaker 2: found out the other person was thinking like that with you? Yeah,
Speaker 2: we forget who we're like, I'm going to be a
Speaker 2: martyr and make this work. Like ew, you're wasting another
Speaker 2: person's time if you're already you know, if you're pretending
Speaker 2: or faking or trying to make something work. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: if you're in of course, relationships take work. I really
Speaker 2: can't speak to all that because I get so confused
Speaker 2: around it. But I was just like, I don't want
Speaker 2: to have any internal monologues that are negative about this.
Speaker 2: Let's just start this off like honest and forward thinking,
Speaker 2: in radical acceptance, so that our son never knows any different,
Speaker 2: you know, to see us as like good friends and
Speaker 2: we don't complicate things. And I just never want to
Speaker 2: show resentment or weirdness around him. So we just started
Speaker 2: co parenting like from the beginning, and it's such a blast.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: It's like a dream. And then I started dating the
Speaker 2: guy that I'm with like when my son was like
Speaker 2: three months old.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's so cool.
Speaker 2: Just I like, look, it's so hard for me to
Speaker 2: trust that anyone would be into me in any capacity.
Speaker 2: That the guy that I'm with now we started dating
Speaker 2: when I had a newborn, Like that's what it takes
Speaker 2: for me to be convinced that you actually like me,
Speaker 2: to throw you in the deep end so hard. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm like still hemorrhaging from childbirth and just purple from
Speaker 2: Arco's veins, and just you know, here's my base.
Speaker 1: We are.
Speaker 2: I'm breastfeeding that I can't really walk, and you know,
Speaker 2: so the guy that I'm with now, So it's kind
Speaker 2: of a wild uh dynamic, but like why not?
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make this
Speaker 1: show possible. I think there's something you know, not that
Speaker 1: we've had the same experience, but I do think there's
Speaker 1: something about meeting a person when you are you're most
Speaker 1: taken apart.
Speaker 2: In a way.
Speaker 1: And for me, like I had to really deconstruct so
Speaker 1: many things about the pressure I put on myself, the
Speaker 1: subconscious pressure I put on myself approaching forty and wanting
Speaker 1: to be a parent and doing all these things. And yeah,
Speaker 1: sure there's things that aren't for public consumption, and there's
Speaker 1: diagnoses you could give and all the you're talking about,
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's like, no,
Speaker 1: if we're just trying to build the image, but the
Speaker 1: life inside isn't happy, or you feel hollow or a
Speaker 1: it's like a movie backdrop, like it looks like the mountains,
Speaker 1: but actually it's just a sheet that's been painted on.
Speaker 1: Like what are we what are we doing? And why
Speaker 1: do we feel like we have to do it that way?
Speaker 2: And I grew up watching parents fight like dogs that
Speaker 2: not have been together. I remember, yeah, sobbing begging my
Speaker 2: parents to get a divorce, and you know, I just
Speaker 2: I don't feel like it's fair. You know, I think
Speaker 2: the children understand, oh, this didn't work out, Like now
Speaker 2: I can show you things don't work out the way
Speaker 2: that the Norman Rockwell painting is like it's it's okay.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think that it was also liberating
Speaker 2: because I was like, Okay, I'm forty years old. If
Speaker 2: I start over right now, not having a child, which
Speaker 2: I want, you know, so bad, I'm just gonna put
Speaker 2: so much pressure on everyone I date, like are you
Speaker 2: a father? And you a father? And da da da,
Speaker 2: and let me see, I'm just gonna be like how
Speaker 2: big are your hands and like just getting so primorial.
Speaker 1: Do you have any history of heart disease in your family?
Speaker 1: What about rare cancers?
Speaker 2: Like I meant this while we're sending it to twenty
Speaker 2: three and right now I just was like, I'm never
Speaker 2: gonna or I'm gonna settle for the wrong I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have a kid with the wrong person too fast and
Speaker 2: make a big mess. And I don't think it's fair
Speaker 2: to be you know, we talk about objectifying you know,
Speaker 2: women a lot, but it's not fair to objectify a
Speaker 2: man on the first date, like are you a father?
Speaker 2: Are you a father? Like you know, are you calm, honor?
Speaker 2: And you can let me it's your credit score, like
Speaker 2: I just you know. So I was like, let me
Speaker 2: just take this off the table. And then I had this,
Speaker 2: you know, cause that worked, you know when I was
Speaker 2: when I froze my eggs. It took a lot of
Speaker 2: pressure off. And then this like yeah, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: really also working on you know. And I'm sure it's
Speaker 2: different from everyone not getting all my needs met from
Speaker 2: the same person. I don't think historically that's ever been
Speaker 2: the case. I think our biological basis is like, you know,
Speaker 2: not conducive to that at all, the idea that your
Speaker 2: person needs to be like your husband and your best
Speaker 2: friend and the father of your kid and your you know,
Speaker 2: and the handyman at the house and the like everything
Speaker 2: or your girl, whatever it is. And so to me,
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, now that I have my heart so full,
Speaker 2: I can actually go out and find a teammate, a
Speaker 2: co pilot, a partner instead of like my world, I
Speaker 2: have a world already, yeah, you know, And I think
Speaker 2: that my relationships before were so codependent because I was like,
Speaker 2: I need you to you're my dad that never loved
Speaker 2: me and my mom that drank and you're you know,
Speaker 2: And then I was getting my emotional needs met from
Speaker 2: like Hollywood, Like I mean, it was, it was mentally ill.
Speaker 2: So now it's like, I think it's just about how
Speaker 2: do you get your emotional needs met in appropriate ways?
Speaker 2: And the word appropriate is kind of a new one
Speaker 2: for me as a comedian. I know that's not something
Speaker 2: that comes naturally for me to understand, but like it's
Speaker 2: just like not appropriate for me to expect my guy
Speaker 2: to be sad about my girlfriend breakup. You know. He's like, no,
Speaker 2: it's not she was toxic for you. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: I need to cry for two weeks because I still
Speaker 2: love girlfriend. Breakups are so much they're so hard than
Speaker 2: gud But you know what, wait, I have to Okay,
Speaker 2: I know we're talking about this thing, but I do
Speaker 2: have to ask you this because this was like a
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what the interview was, but when
Speaker 1: Oprah and Gail were talking and Oprah said, you cannot
Speaker 1: be friends with someone who has even an ounce of
Speaker 1: jealousy about your life, even an ounce and it really
Speaker 1: it hit me in such a way because I went, oh, well,
Speaker 1: no wonder, they've been friends for their whole lives, and oh, no,
Speaker 1: wonder we go through these things. Our lives are weird.
Speaker 1: Hollywood's weird, our careers are weird. Being in relationship to
Speaker 1: people in the public eye is weird, and it's hard.
Speaker 1: And also you kind of can't have relationships with people
Speaker 1: who find your life hard for them.
Speaker 2: It's also tricky with that because I wouldn't even have
Speaker 2: been able to apply that advice to my life into
Speaker 2: very recently save in order to ascertain whether someone's jealous
Speaker 2: of you, you have to have self esteem and thank
Speaker 2: you your life is awesome and that you're awesome, ding
Speaker 2: ding ding. I was in all these RELATIONSHSPEP. I think
Speaker 2: that was happening. But I was like, I would be
Speaker 2: jealous of my.
Speaker 1: Life the same. I was like, nobody's meaner to me
Speaker 1: that me. I'm not fill in the blank, this person,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing, fill in the blank, this job I'm
Speaker 1: not and I and I wasn't in any way capable
Speaker 1: of owning what I am. I just constantly identified what
Speaker 1: I wasn't and that not only for the kinds of
Speaker 1: friendships that break up, but for relationships, for romantic relationships
Speaker 1: that makes you such a target for manipulation and people
Speaker 1: who will take advantage of you. And like it really
Speaker 1: required everything, like the House of Cards really coming down
Speaker 1: to go, hold on, what ways have I been complicit
Speaker 1: in what I've accepted that isn't it? And how do
Speaker 1: I change that? And you know, in the same way
Speaker 1: that you're talking about meeting your guy in the most
Speaker 1: insane time, Like I never thought I was going to
Speaker 1: find the most keeling and sweet and joyful and kind
Speaker 1: love of my life in a fucking divorced girl group chat,
Speaker 1: but here we are, Like not on my Bingo card ever,
Speaker 1: and here we are. And it's like, I bet it
Speaker 1: wasn't on your Bingo card that you were going to
Speaker 1: have a three month old and fall in love with
Speaker 1: someone that wasn't that baby's dad.
Speaker 2: But I realized the only my heart was so full
Speaker 2: with this child that the only person who could have
Speaker 2: even got through to me was someone he's already a dad,
Speaker 2: he's you know, has a kid. That was like down
Speaker 2: that was like, oh, you still have stitches in and
Speaker 2: you can't have sex for three months and you've got
Speaker 2: this baby, and like pressure, yeah, he was like.
Speaker 1: You know was he was? He just like, let me
Speaker 1: swaddle your baby, and you were like Yupah.
Speaker 2: He showed up a Harley Davidson onesie, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: and he's an Eagles fan so all this like Eagles gear.
Speaker 2: And it was like, because I had this identity that
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, now I'm a single mom, like I'm
Speaker 2: no one's gonna want to sign up for this. Oh
Speaker 2: it's gonna make me cry, Like who would want this?
Speaker 2: You know? Like, and I think that you're like this too,
Speaker 2: and maybe I won't diagnose you, but I think that
Speaker 2: we come off so independent and so self sufficient that
Speaker 2: it doesn't occur to anyone that we ever need help. Ye,
Speaker 2: and yes, you know I that was the only time
Speaker 2: I was needing help because I like literally like couldn't
Speaker 2: walk up a flight of stairs.
Speaker 1: You couldn't pretend you didn't need help anymore.
Speaker 2: Exactly. You just nailed it. And it softened me in
Speaker 2: that moment, and I'm like, is this what it comes
Speaker 2: to for a man to see my vulnerable side? Literally?
Speaker 2: Just being like he would drive all the way here,
Speaker 2: he lives two hours away and I'd be like, I
Speaker 2: have to take a nap. He'd be like, no problem,
Speaker 2: you know, like let me make you some food. Like
Speaker 2: that's what it came to for me to allow someone
Speaker 2: to love me and take care of me. And I
Speaker 2: don't think I ever would have been able to do
Speaker 2: that had I not actually been like still bleeding from child.
Speaker 1: Wow. I think that's really it's really profound, and that's
Speaker 1: really beautiful and how fucking cool that you did it.
Speaker 2: Tricky thing, because I'm so like anti pretending to be
Speaker 2: anything you're not or don't ever make yourself small for someone.
Speaker 2: But there's also a point where you have to go,
Speaker 2: like if I want to attract someone that has any
Speaker 2: caretaking capabilities or that will be helpful and useful and
Speaker 2: that helps them build their pride and their self esteem
Speaker 2: and that's maybe how they give love if their language
Speaker 2: is acts of service or you know, and I'm not
Speaker 2: giving them the opportunity to do that for me because
Speaker 2: my thing is like I mean anything, I'm so independent.
Speaker 2: I got it, I got it, I got it, And
Speaker 2: they're like, do you even need me for this? Like
Speaker 2: I want to be with someone that I can love
Speaker 2: and you know, I love through acts of service, and
Speaker 2: I love through fixing and helping, you know. And then
Speaker 2: I found myself in relationships with people that are just
Speaker 2: like so unavailable and so not there. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: of course I'm attracting that kind of person because I
Speaker 2: don't need anything. Somebody attracts someone who can't give anything,
Speaker 2: and so, you know, I don't know where you are.
Speaker 2: And love languages, I know, I'm sure. I'm sure a
Speaker 2: lot of it is. You know, it is what it is.
Speaker 2: But there is a book that is so deeply toxic
Speaker 2: and it is so helpful. I'm going to bring it up.
Speaker 2: It is called getting Too I Do, and it is
Speaker 2: truly the worst title of any book. But boy, ignore
Speaker 2: all the toxic heteronormative like marriage stuff. It's not even
Speaker 2: about the marriage. It's like about how one person needs
Speaker 2: to be a giver and one person needs to be
Speaker 2: a receiver, and like switching back and forth is confusing,
Speaker 2: and you got to pick a lane. And in my relationships,
Speaker 2: I was always the giver, but in my work, I'm
Speaker 2: the giver and I just was always giving, given, giving,
Speaker 2: and I wasn't allowing myself to receive anything anywhere. And
Speaker 2: I wanted a teammate, but I wasn't giving anyone the
Speaker 2: opportunity to give to me. So I was so frustrated.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm doing everything myself. Why aren't they helping?
Speaker 2: It doesn't occur. When would they have time to help?
Speaker 2: You've already done it all, you know, double virgo till
Speaker 2: I die. Come from alcoholic home, Like, I'm gratified child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you and me both, babe.
Speaker 2: It helped me to learn receiving isn't weak. It just
Speaker 2: mean you're stupid. It doesn't mean you need a man
Speaker 2: or need a relationship, or you're pathetic or weak. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: could you make the reservation? Could you make that choice?
Speaker 2: What do you want to make the choice? I'm just
Speaker 2: a capacity for making choices today. I just I don't
Speaker 2: I'm a decision fatigue. What decent this thing? Could you
Speaker 2: just schedule it? Thank you? Want to love you? And
Speaker 2: that's what the essence of that book is.
Speaker 1: That kind of yeah, But that's what I was going
Speaker 1: to ask you, because the hyper independence that comes off
Speaker 1: is so professional, so successful. So whatever you know. You
Speaker 1: mentioned growing up in a household where you were at
Speaker 1: times begging your parents to get divorced. I also went
Speaker 1: through that, and I realize I was a very early
Speaker 1: parentified child. I was like, I love you both, y'all
Speaker 1: are nuts. I see myself out here. Yeah, I'll take
Speaker 1: it from here. I will never need anything. And the
Speaker 1: wild thing that I've been through more recently, you know,
Speaker 1: we had this big kind of family meeting I don't know,
Speaker 1: eight years ago and started processing through some things that
Speaker 1: I thought were a really big deal. And I was
Speaker 1: in a period of five years of deep singletom just
Speaker 1: like I reject a relationship, I'm not doing this, and
Speaker 1: I had to kind of get to the bottom of
Speaker 1: some things in my family. And the coolest thing that's
Speaker 1: happened to me since I, you know, knocked down the
Speaker 1: whole house of cards two years ago, is it. It
Speaker 1: gave my parents and I another opportunity to talk to
Speaker 1: each other. And I realized i'd been saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad my parents still have each other, and
Speaker 1: I'm really glad for where they're at. But I don't
Speaker 1: know when they became this couple that holds hands walking
Speaker 1: down the street and likes hanging out with each other.
Speaker 1: And I realized that because I rejected the hard times
Speaker 1: they went through because they're just two people doing the
Speaker 1: best they can, you know, not in a generation where
Speaker 1: they had Instagram, therapists and mental health access, you know,
Speaker 1: resources everywhere. That I missed the way they healed together.
Speaker 1: So I rejected what didn't work, but I never learned
Speaker 1: what really did WHOA And so I didn't even know
Speaker 1: that in my hyper independence, which was a trauma response
Speaker 1: to that toxicity at the time, I didn't even realize
Speaker 1: that as an adult who looked super successful on the
Speaker 1: outside and who'd been through a lot and had healed
Speaker 1: from it, supposedly that I just kept finding the same
Speaker 1: fucking clause to fit the same fucking wounds. And the
Speaker 1: aha moment that I had realizing I was in a
Speaker 1: situation at forty that so closely mirrored a situation I
Speaker 1: was in twenty years.
Speaker 2: Before, like pattern recognition.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, everything stops. Everything's got
Speaker 1: to stop, and it was so scary to do it.
Speaker 1: But the way it feels now, like I see the
Speaker 1: joy on your face when you talk about where you
Speaker 1: are now, and I feel that I just.
Speaker 2: In talking about how different it is from if it
Speaker 2: feels uncomfortable and the opposite of my thing is, you know, look,
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I'm in alan On and Aca, and
Speaker 2: you know, it's really just about taking a contrary action.
Speaker 2: And if something feels too familiar before you've been in recovery,
Speaker 2: that means you're recreating your childhood circumstances, whatever equilibrium of
Speaker 2: the neurochemical. There's a great book again horrible title, Horvel Hendricks,
Speaker 2: Getting the Love You Want, about how we're attracted to
Speaker 2: people with the negative qualities of our primary caretakers, because
Speaker 2: it recreates that from mine was chaos. And the more
Speaker 2: on drugs you are, the more you know, dramatic going
Speaker 2: through a horrible breakup, you need to you know, go
Speaker 2: from the rehab to the assisted living and you have
Speaker 2: a stock like chaos was so familiar to me because
Speaker 2: that was my role as a kid, was to make
Speaker 2: everybody happy and calm and just help me get the
Speaker 2: helper right. And so you know, and I did. And
Speaker 2: no shade on your parents, no shade even on my parents.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of at the point where it's like we
Speaker 2: forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness, because we deserve peace.
Speaker 2: And now that I have a son, I'm like God,
Speaker 2: I hope he like forgives me when I mess up.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I will, so just trying to, you know,
Speaker 2: approach that way. But there was this guy on I
Speaker 2: think it was Rich Roll, who said, a sign of
Speaker 2: healthy parenting is that your children don't wish to be famous.
Speaker 2: And it's just kind of like, Okay, I don't have
Speaker 2: to overthink this. I went to strangers. I go to
Speaker 2: try to make drunk strangers laugh at night.
Speaker 1: Oh you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't get I didn't get what I needed.
Speaker 2: But no one's going to give it to me. I
Speaker 2: have to give it to myself.
Speaker 1: You have to give it to your you're.
Speaker 2: Famous, you're in a super big jam because then people
Speaker 2: want to be around you sometimes for the wrong reason,
Speaker 2: so it's not real love. And that I go, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I'll sell it for being used. Being used. I'll never love,
Speaker 2: so I'll just be used, like I know what that is.
Speaker 2: And then to break that cycle is like is not
Speaker 2: a game.
Speaker 1: It's like total It felt like total and complete annihilation
Speaker 1: by choice. But I would not go back for a moment.
Speaker 2: The concept called wabbi Sabby, I'm sure you know that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: term of something is actually more valuable after it's been broken.
Speaker 2: And like when bolt breaks, they painted back with gold.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's so beautiful, sobby, no big deal. Yeah you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm an art piece, bitch, Like I'm a like, I fancy,
Speaker 1: I love it. Put me in a museum.
Speaker 2: That guy, Steve Win, the hotel guy. Yes, he put
Speaker 2: his hand through a van Gogh because he has issues.
Speaker 2: And then they restored it and now it's worth like
Speaker 2: fifty million more like being broken and fixed is sicker,
Speaker 2: like scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue.
Speaker 1: Totally, and now a word from our sponsors. So I'm
Speaker 1: curious about this because you've talked about it a lot,
Speaker 1: and if you feel like you've talked about it too much,
Speaker 1: we can move on. But you you you've shared about
Speaker 1: your postpartum depression journey. And so not only when you
Speaker 1: give me context on finding this really healthy love and
Speaker 1: learning to let people support you, you were also you
Speaker 1: weren't just dealing with the physical postpartum. You were dealing
Speaker 1: with this enormous mental shift. And were you able to
Speaker 1: identify that really quickly, because like when I was going
Speaker 1: through what I was going through, granted not because of
Speaker 1: a kid but like fertility hormones or gnarley. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: what is happening to me? Is the is a kind
Speaker 1: of depression that is scary and I need to figure
Speaker 1: it out. And I had to confront a lot of things,
Speaker 1: namely like I'm not getting any help with this, Like
Speaker 1: how did you know that it wasn't just oh my
Speaker 1: body aches because I pushed a baby out, but like
Speaker 1: something else is wrong.
Speaker 2: I'm already getting emotional, so you know, lot's coming, No
Speaker 2: in a good way, you know, I don't. I no
Speaker 2: longer see crying as bad, like it's you know, it's decongestion,
Speaker 2: and it's like the body that keeps the score I
Speaker 2: have here somewhere. It's just like you know, releasing And
Speaker 2: I think when we have these conversations, like it's a
Speaker 2: sign of uh, I think strength and success that this deep.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that you're not masking this part of yourself.
Speaker 2: I can't pretend anymore. And I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 2: And I don't I used to kind of just like
Speaker 2: go for the joke, and going for a joke podcasts
Speaker 2: when there's no audience just comes off cringe and pick
Speaker 2: me anyway, you know. For me, it was a couple
Speaker 2: of things. You know, I will start by saying, I'm
Speaker 2: not a big pharmap pusher person. If it's for you,
Speaker 2: that's awesome. I think there's definitely a place for I
Speaker 2: know people who have are no longer with us, who
Speaker 2: have taken their lives because they went off a medication
Speaker 2: they really needed. I know people who I think have
Speaker 2: gone on medications they did not need at all, and
Speaker 2: it has hurt their lives in a lot of ways
Speaker 2: and mental health. I went off everything and ultimately settled
Speaker 2: on just because I have repetitive intrusive thoughts, which is
Speaker 2: a normal, healthy reaction from a dangerous childhood. To go
Speaker 2: like that is a soo on? Is this on? Is
Speaker 2: the door? Like that? Like it's a survival mechanism. It's
Speaker 2: something that also I think women we specifically have we're
Speaker 2: you know, used to have to give birth in the
Speaker 2: woods at fifteen blood everywhere with predators around. Is that
Speaker 2: a line? Is that a line? Is that a line?
Speaker 2: Is that a lot? Like? That's you know, survival narrative.
Speaker 2: But I did go on first ten milligrams of prozac
Speaker 2: and then up to twenty milligrams of prozac, which just
Speaker 2: kind of cuts the perseveration and the loop in like
Speaker 2: kind of in half for me of like get off
Speaker 2: this podcast and go like, oh that was boring. You
Speaker 2: were boring, talk too much, that was annoying. You cried
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Why did you do that? That was
Speaker 2: like a I'll do that for like five.
Speaker 1: Minutes and you know instead of an hour.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they like, I'm going to do it as
Speaker 2: much as it will be constructive for me to next
Speaker 2: time improve the way I communicate, but I'm not going
Speaker 2: to like hurt myself. You know. So I had gone
Speaker 2: off prozac when I was pregnant, so I was definitely
Speaker 2: off prozac as well. You know. So I'm not saying
Speaker 2: everyone that has postpartum should be on something. For me personally,
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of those repetitive thoughts before the
Speaker 2: prozac kicked back in, and then I think there was
Speaker 2: just you know how like when you almost get in
Speaker 2: a car accident but you don't, you're fineing, you're fine,
Speaker 2: and then you like get home and then you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: like it it comes out like a delay. Yeah, all
Speaker 2: the stuff that I'm talking about of like I did
Speaker 2: it with someone that I'm not married to and I
Speaker 2: did it, you know, out of wedlock after my mom died.
Speaker 2: And I'm coming off like I'm very like, I'm this
Speaker 2: decision and I you know, that's so self actualized and
Speaker 2: I have all this agency and I did this, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of what's the word unconventional thing. I think that
Speaker 2: there was like a delayed emotional hangover of having to
Speaker 2: be an acceptance of that I didn't really have any choice,
Speaker 2: like when I was pregnant, I was just kind of like,
Speaker 2: this is what I'm doing. I think we forget a
Speaker 2: lot about like the freeze response and like shock, and
Speaker 2: it took me a lot. A lot of the time.
Speaker 2: I'm in shock a lot, and sometimes it takes me
Speaker 2: a second to like process something that happened. And after
Speaker 2: I had him and things got real, Oh it's gonna
Speaker 2: makee me cry. There is like a sadness around it also,
Speaker 2: which is like, fine, this is a choice that I made,
Speaker 2: you know, but there's a sadness for all of us
Speaker 2: to go like, oh, like I'm not gonna have that thing.
Speaker 2: You know, does anybody have it? I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: does anybody have it? Unclear? But you know that's why
Speaker 2: movies like Frozen are so important because you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: the love story between sisters. You know, Yes, But I
Speaker 2: do think that I also had a sadness for myself
Speaker 2: of like, whoa, I could have done that this way
Speaker 2: this whole time and put myself through shape shifting and
Speaker 2: pretending and trying to be the girl that he'd want
Speaker 2: to marry so we can have the kid. You know.
Speaker 2: I was like it was a sadness for also like
Speaker 2: what I had done to myself and being around a baby,
Speaker 2: it's just like it gives you a whole new level
Speaker 2: of understanding how I guess mentally ill my parents were.
Speaker 2: It went from like I'm mad at them to like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: I was in actual danger. Like when you're with a
Speaker 2: baby and you see how defenseless they are and how innocent.
Speaker 2: There's like a news that comes up that's like it's
Speaker 2: like they didn't want this, Like how could you not?
Speaker 2: You know, But addiction is real, and addiction, you know,
Speaker 2: people that are addicted to drugs, they give their baby
Speaker 2: away gambling. You know, I can see for you know,
Speaker 2: So I think it's a lot of that. I think
Speaker 2: when you're with a baby, that's so defenseless and so
Speaker 2: innocent and so sweet. You also go like what happened?
Speaker 2: What does this world do? Like I have this little boy,
Speaker 2: he's the sweetest thing, and I'm like all men start
Speaker 2: out like this, Yeah, what are we doing to these people?
Speaker 2: You're like, what are we doing to them? So I
Speaker 2: think there was this there's a sadness there, and then
Speaker 2: as he gets older, I think that's when the postpartum
Speaker 2: I don't know what to call it really hits me
Speaker 2: because I didn't really have a childhood with toys and
Speaker 2: play and so I'm kind of having it for the
Speaker 2: first time with him, and it's just like sadness, which
Speaker 2: is like I'd rather be the person cryinger on your podcast,
Speaker 2: as much as embarrassing as it is, then the person
Speaker 2: who's like angry later, you know, because I think I
Speaker 2: had a lot of anger for a long time that
Speaker 2: I just thought was like I'm funny and I'm sarcastic,
Speaker 2: but it was like angry underneath it, you know, And
Speaker 2: so that's kind of what it was for me. I
Speaker 2: think it was a remix of chemical and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: your body is not your body that I actually, for
Speaker 2: the first time my life got obsessed with my body,
Speaker 2: like I had eating disorders and and dysmorphia and all
Speaker 2: kinds of it with my mind so long one side
Speaker 2: a kid, I was like, it's not about my body.
Speaker 2: It's I'm not trying to get some executive at CBS
Speaker 2: to be like in em hire me. Like what I
Speaker 2: was like, this is just my kid's house at this point,
Speaker 2: you know, That's what I thought about it. So I
Speaker 2: think there's just also this chrysalis of going like I'm
Speaker 2: an adult now and the relief of like I don't
Speaker 2: have to think about myself anymore. And I was so
Speaker 2: sick of myself. What we do for a living. I
Speaker 2: know everyone kind of wants to do what we do,
Speaker 2: and that's awesome, and there's so many amazing things about
Speaker 2: what we do. But like I was like there, I
Speaker 2: was at a like peak mental illness, like crisis, and
Speaker 2: I think plot twist. I guess I'm not a malignant narcissist.
Speaker 2: I was just so sick of myself. And I realized, like,
Speaker 2: if I'm thinking about myself all day, I hate myself.
Speaker 2: But if I'm thinking about myself like an hour a day,
Speaker 2: that's like that's like the sweet spot. So such a
Speaker 2: victory in all of this, But I think once you
Speaker 2: have that child in front of you, and the decisions
Speaker 2: really made of like okay, like I'm a single mom,
Speaker 2: Like okay, Like I tried. I did everything I could.
Speaker 2: I pretended to like the you know, the Miami heat
Speaker 2: for a guy. I pretended to like coffee. I pretended
Speaker 2: to be this person I pretend to be in the
Speaker 2: camping Like I tried, and it didn't work. And I could,
Speaker 2: I couldn't make it perfect. And there's a little bit
Speaker 2: of a like, you know, I think my son's going
Speaker 2: to think it's cool, but there's a little bit of
Speaker 2: like I have to explain this one day, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I think it's kind of incredible.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I I will never forget like and this was years
Speaker 1: before any of this, but I will never forget doing
Speaker 1: during the pandemic when we were all home, I did
Speaker 1: Glennon Doyle's book tour with her on Instagram live.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when.
Speaker 1: She talked about being in this marriage and looking at
Speaker 1: her daughter and saying like would I want this for
Speaker 1: my daughter? Like I'm staying for my daughter, but what
Speaker 1: I want my daughter to stay in this?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I needed to hear that to eventually unpack the house
Speaker 1: I grew up in with my parents, and I needed
Speaker 1: to hear it so that on the precipice of having
Speaker 1: a kid, I could say, I don't want this for
Speaker 1: my kid. I don't want the thing i'm in that
Speaker 1: has just eviscerated me to be the thing my kid
Speaker 1: grows up in. And I think there's something so cool
Speaker 1: about the fact that we all, in our own unique versions,
Speaker 1: are having this experience because I think the kids we
Speaker 1: raise are going to be more mentally healthy because we
Speaker 1: can talk to them about finding mental toughness, about finding
Speaker 1: our own mental health, about not having to make it
Speaker 1: look perfect, and not trying to go after you know,
Speaker 1: the fairy tale ending, but actually finding joy and personal fulfillment,
Speaker 1: even when it requires so much courage because you have
Speaker 1: to do the brave, hard thing.
Speaker 2: But I think that what you're saying is making me
Speaker 2: think for the first time. The idea is that I
Speaker 2: think this generation we're kind of been chosen to be
Speaker 2: the cycle breakers, and hopefully this next generation doesn't need
Speaker 2: to have constant mental health CONTs all the time. Hopefully
Speaker 2: there's meditation in schools and there's you know, school isn't
Speaker 2: just sitting down and staring at us memorizing when that's
Speaker 2: not how we're wired. You know. Like I think this
Speaker 2: next generation, you know, is going to look at phones
Speaker 2: the way we look at cigarettes. We're gonna be like
Speaker 2: you guys just did that all day inside, you know
Speaker 2: all the I think that, like we're kind of the
Speaker 2: the you know, our parents, Uh, I mean the parents
Speaker 2: before that were just a wash there. They were like
Speaker 2: kids working in factories. You know, They're doing pretty good
Speaker 2: given the circumstance. It says that generationally and our parents
Speaker 2: were raised by you know, people that are completely emotionally
Speaker 2: shut down, that were like in wars, you know, and
Speaker 2: then us, like I think we're the ones that are
Speaker 2: hopefully going to get a modicum of you know, sort
Speaker 2: of mental health in place, so this next generation can
Speaker 2: just exist and being in a way. You know. But
Speaker 2: it's it's it's a lot, man, And like I think
Speaker 2: to me, you know, I really stick with a lot
Speaker 2: of like basics, like gratitude list is it? Because the
Speaker 2: worst thing I think we can be at this point
Speaker 2: is a sore winner?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you do that every day?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Make a gratitude list? Do you do it in the
Speaker 1: morning or at night.
Speaker 2: I do it usually at night before bed, because I
Speaker 2: do a ten step in a twelve step program, which
Speaker 2: is where you go, do I owe any apologies today?
Speaker 2: You know? Do I have any resentments from today? Do
Speaker 2: I have any fears from today? And then like gratitude
Speaker 2: list before bed? Yeah, it's good. Yeah, that's like a
Speaker 2: ten step and a twelve step programs so that you
Speaker 2: don't like carry shame and in the next day or
Speaker 2: you're not like laying in bed and being like, was
Speaker 2: I like weird on Sophia's podcast? Would I reach out
Speaker 2: to her and like you should hang out? Did I
Speaker 2: drop the ball on that? Like instead of just thinking
Speaker 2: about it, I can just go like, hey, you know, sorry,
Speaker 2: if that I was late, great talking to you, like
Speaker 2: whatever it is. I can just make an apology where
Speaker 2: I need to, so that I'm not beating myself up
Speaker 2: over it and accruing an embarrassment kind of thing. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I really am trying to write stuff down. I have
Speaker 2: a typewriter now, typewriter that does not have Wi Fi
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 1: We like that.
Speaker 2: I do think another part of postpartum depression. I'm not
Speaker 2: hearing a lot about me, not because just because i'm
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sure it's a discussion, but you're really
Speaker 2: really faced with your addictions after you have a kid
Speaker 2: and hardcore because you're like, oh, he's on the table sleeping,
Speaker 2: or he's in the bouncer or whatever, sleeping. Okay, do
Speaker 2: I have a second to go get my phone? Like
Speaker 2: there was a couple of times where I made the
Speaker 2: wrong decision because I had to get my phone or
Speaker 2: look at my phone. And nothing bad happened, but like
Speaker 2: it could have where I was kind of rolling the dice.
Speaker 2: And addictions make you sort of less able to assess
Speaker 2: the true danger of something because we want that fix
Speaker 2: so bad. Thank God for me, it's not you know, substances,
Speaker 2: but like there's times he was like on the bed
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, just I'll just turn on
Speaker 2: real quick and I'll get my phone and I'll send
Speaker 2: that Instagram, you know, And I was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: kind of addicted to my phone because I'm gambling. I'm
Speaker 2: kind of gambling with my son's safety, as you know.
Speaker 2: And nothing bad happened, but it could have, right, So
Speaker 2: you have to face a lot of your like embarrassing
Speaker 2: inner monologue where you're there with your baby and you're
Speaker 2: kind of like, I gotta make a TikTok.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Okay.
Speaker 1: So I'm really curious about this because this has brought
Speaker 1: you so much mental clarity and it feels like a
Speaker 1: lot of emotional softening and has a required bravery and
Speaker 1: all these things, and like you said, you're facing all
Speaker 1: of this. The typewriter is genius.
Speaker 2: Also go I'm falling behind, looking at my son and
Speaker 2: going I'm falling behind. Put another stand up special out.
Speaker 1: So that was gonna be my question. How do you
Speaker 1: from this place say I want to write new comedy.
Speaker 1: I want to go and do a tour Like what
Speaker 1: is is it?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I took a break and now I have to get
Speaker 1: to work. I'm going to go do the big baby tour.
Speaker 1: Or were you like, Oh, I've made more space emotionally
Speaker 1: and now I want this creative hit for myself as well.
Speaker 2: I had no ability to be creative for like six months,
Speaker 2: and I think that was another element of the postpartum
Speaker 2: depression of like that I didn't want to talk about
Speaker 2: and I still don't want to talk about I only
Speaker 2: do this for you because my brain didn't work, they said, mom,
Speaker 2: brain whatever, you know my brain. I couldn't remember the
Speaker 2: most basic things. I couldn't make jokes, I couldn't write jokes.
Speaker 2: Like I just was like, I was really scared at
Speaker 2: how for lack of a better work dumb I was.
Speaker 2: And it did make me realize, like so much of
Speaker 2: my self esteem is about how much I know? And
Speaker 2: am I smart? And am I funny? And I wasn't
Speaker 2: those things six months after I had my kid, and
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm useless, Like I'm not funny, I'm
Speaker 2: not smart, I'm not interesting. I can't remember anything. And
Speaker 2: it helped me really see that and how this is
Speaker 2: where I get my value and what I think people
Speaker 2: like about me, which is probably the opposite. People like
Speaker 2: she's such a know it all. We liked her better,
Speaker 2: So I had to face that. And then you know,
Speaker 2: to me, I'm really big on software updates for our brains.
Speaker 2: You know, take the time and have the software update.
Speaker 2: In order for art to imitate life, you have to
Speaker 2: have a life. And I've always struggled with that. I'm
Speaker 2: sort of like next special may learn to write more jokes.
Speaker 2: Write more jokes, and you end up kind of writing
Speaker 2: about the same things and sort of doing a bad
Speaker 2: impression of yourself. I think it's really important that we
Speaker 2: all consciously decide to grow and mature. And I have
Speaker 2: no allegiance to the person I was yesterday, and I
Speaker 2: really try to go like if I do this quickly
Speaker 2: and fast, it's not going to be thoughtful and mindful.
Speaker 2: So much of stand up is just like spending a
Speaker 2: lot of time ruminating and like trying to fair opinion
Speaker 2: is on something. And I was like, Okay, let me
Speaker 2: just take this time to like read all the books
Speaker 2: that I pretend I've read, and let me finish all
Speaker 2: the books that I say I've finished but I haven't,
Speaker 2: you know, and just like live my life a little
Speaker 2: and like do chores. And I and I realized that,
Speaker 2: like so dorky, but chores are such a big part
Speaker 2: of my sanity. Double virgo till I die. But I
Speaker 2: had gotten some help, like you know, when I had
Speaker 2: the kid, when I was pregnant, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I just want to go back to every morning doing
Speaker 2: some like you know, things that need to be done,
Speaker 2: you know, productivity and cooperation make dopamine. I want to
Speaker 2: like take care of my own I just think we're
Speaker 2: so wired just like do things for ourselves that need
Speaker 2: to be done. I used to have someone that did
Speaker 2: my like garden. I started doing it myself, and I'm
Speaker 2: like such a happier person. You know. It's such a
Speaker 2: simple thing. I know, but before you go to the therapist,
Speaker 2: like clean your house, clean out your car, and plant
Speaker 2: some flowers and like see what happened. So I like
Speaker 2: wake up in the sunlight gardening. I think we're just
Speaker 2: really wired, like barefoot connect to the earth. I know
Speaker 2: this sounds so tanga of me right now, but that
Speaker 2: I really you know. And then I want my son.
Speaker 2: He just wants to like rake and dig, and I'm like, God,
Speaker 2: this is kind of what we're wired to do. So
Speaker 2: little that started started helping me and not going like
Speaker 2: I need to write five pages of jokes today. I
Speaker 2: was like, let me just be a person. And then
Speaker 2: the clarity started coming back, and I think a lot
Speaker 2: of things that I don't remember I wasn't meant to remember.
Speaker 2: Here's the good news, Like once you have a kid,
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of like a hippocampus wipe I've
Speaker 2: run into side pool, had a great conversation with a
Speaker 2: couple guys. Two weeks later, I was like, wait, oh
Speaker 2: we dated whoa, whoa when I had a kid. In
Speaker 2: my brain was like, we don't need that. We don't
Speaker 2: need that, like little things you know that you carry,
Speaker 2: like that a was mean to me and that person
Speaker 2: was said something nasty on social about me. It's like, gone,
Speaker 2: you know, that's a good thing about mom brain. Is
Speaker 2: that a nice state of like the stuff that doesn't
Speaker 2: matter is just kind of gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. I mean, look, I I'm sad for
Speaker 1: you that it felt so stressful, and it definitely makes
Speaker 1: me want to double down on the fact that, you know,
Speaker 1: we actually need paid leave in this country because in
Speaker 1: other countries you can be a CEO and then have
Speaker 1: a year off with your baby, and in America they're
Speaker 1: like two weeks isn't long enough and you're like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm literally still waiting. What are you talking about.
Speaker 2: I've not a couple of people that went to England
Speaker 2: to have their child because it is cheaper to fly
Speaker 2: to London. What tell have your baby and fly.
Speaker 1: Back then to just do it here?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Boy? And also everything that you said about making
Speaker 2: peace with your parents, because when you have a kid,
Speaker 2: come along. They're your childcare. I mean in this country,
Speaker 2: like your parents, your sister. You know. So I'm still alive.
Speaker 2: I would have been like, you know.
Speaker 1: What, it's fine, come over. I really, I mean ten
Speaker 1: minutes to make a TikTok. Thank you.
Speaker 2: This is your way to get right with God and
Speaker 2: get you.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm cashing in on all my karmic points.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: But so yeah, you get another reason to forgive your
Speaker 2: parents because you will, yeah you know. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's just a trip, you know.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really
Speaker 1: enjoy and I think you will too. Okay, tell me
Speaker 1: because obviously I just want to talk to you about
Speaker 1: life all the time and eventually actually come over and
Speaker 1: ride your horses. But I do want to talk about
Speaker 1: your work because I'm very excited about it. How many
Speaker 1: cities are you going to on tour? Where do the
Speaker 1: people get the tickets? Like people want to come and
Speaker 1: watch you make them laugh.
Speaker 2: That's so nice. I think that, honestly, And that's not
Speaker 2: just because this is my job. I think coming to
Speaker 2: see a stand up show even if it's not me,
Speaker 2: even if you don't think women are funny or whatever,
Speaker 2: go see life because it really is like anathema and
Speaker 2: alternative data to what we're seeing online every day, Like yes,
Speaker 2: online every day. You would just think people just want
Speaker 2: to fight. People hate each other. People if they voted differently,
Speaker 2: they won't speak to each other. Nobody wants to laugh.
Speaker 2: Everybody hates comedy. Everyone's going out of their way to
Speaker 2: intentionally misunderstand a joke in order to be offended. And
Speaker 2: then you're in like a room with three thousand people
Speaker 2: that all showed up to laugh, shoulder to shoulder. They
Speaker 2: don't know how the person next to them voted. Everyone
Speaker 2: laughing about the same thing, having the same experience like
Speaker 2: it is just like makes me feel so hopeful to
Speaker 2: see so many people like going. We want to like
Speaker 2: enjoy this life. It's not guaranteed, you know, I don't
Speaker 2: know how then, you know, if I'm going to survive tomorrow,
Speaker 2: Let's just laugh about all this. And we don't want
Speaker 2: to be miserable. You know, We're not the people that
Speaker 2: are just like signing up to be miserable and a
Speaker 2: dreanalized you know, although I know that that hating online,
Speaker 2: that's an addiction. I think we'll look back, you know,
Speaker 2: like there'll be laws that are like you can only
Speaker 2: make five comments a day or whatever.
Speaker 1: That would be incredible.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean. Like, I think it's it's
Speaker 2: self righteous in ignation. It's an adrenaline addiction. And guess
Speaker 2: what if I was eighteen, I'd probably be that person.
Speaker 2: I'd probably be online.
Speaker 3: Like Jill adrim Brodie throwing your gunt, your girlfriend or whatever.
Speaker 3: It's like, I'd probably be that person if I didn't
Speaker 3: have the outlet of doing stand up and writing.
Speaker 2: You know, I get it if you we get hurt
Speaker 2: all the time. We get heard people here like you know,
Speaker 2: want to hear us, Like a lot of people don't
Speaker 2: get heard. You know. If I didn't get hurt, I'm
Speaker 2: sure i'd be doing that and so uh so, yeah,
Speaker 2: Whitney Comedies dot Com. I don't you know, it's I
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm so embarrassed. I'm just I have so
Speaker 2: much shame around.
Speaker 1: That, don't we And you're because you're right, laughter really
Speaker 1: is medicine. And it's like I think that I think
Speaker 1: vulnerability is medicine. I think laughter is medicine. I think
Speaker 1: they are both so essential in a world where we
Speaker 1: are trying to resist the Andrew tatification of society, and
Speaker 1: like we we need to be reminded, as you said,
Speaker 1: that not everyone is like violent and terrible en out
Speaker 1: to get each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I also think like we have to remember,
Speaker 2: like I don't know that much about that guy, but
Speaker 2: there's always been good and evil. They'll always be good
Speaker 2: and evil. I think, like, you know, evil is always louder,
Speaker 2: and mental illness is always louder. So I think we
Speaker 2: also have to choose. This might be a hot take,
Speaker 2: like people who talk about like mental illness, you know,
Speaker 2: mental health, we got to talk about it.
Speaker 1: You might say they're in a lot of pain.
Speaker 2: Sounds like they're in a lot of pain, you know.
Speaker 2: And look, I also think, like I'm not gonna you know,
Speaker 2: I'm still trying to figure out what my quote religion is.
Speaker 2: You know, even people that like I'm a theists, that's
Speaker 2: a religion. You know. For everyone I know that doesn't
Speaker 2: have religion, they're like I have five hundred crystals that
Speaker 2: have names and talk to each other, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know, everyone's got their religion you know, I think
Speaker 2: it's finding one that is, you know, doesn't depend on
Speaker 2: like women are dumb whares.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe that doesn't depend unharming others that would
Speaker 1: be cool.
Speaker 2: Is that what it is? I don't know that much
Speaker 2: about him that if a man goes bald prematurely, everyone
Speaker 2: will pay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, that's a deep cut. I feel that.
Speaker 2: We need better care transplants for men.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because maybe we could have avoided the whole mess if.
Speaker 2: He'd there's a photo of it. I looked. I was
Speaker 2: googling Andrew Takes. I was like, I'm gonna do a
Speaker 2: bit on him on my podcast, Like I don't really
Speaker 2: know who this guy is. And there's a photo of
Speaker 2: him with like, uh huh the balding.
Speaker 1: Yah, I know exactly what photo you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. That's it. We just need better transplants
Speaker 2: for men so they don't have to be this angry.
Speaker 1: Great, we've solved it.
Speaker 2: Also, what happened to him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what happened to that guy?
Speaker 2: Put me in the caids with his parents, Like, what
Speaker 2: happened to that guy? I'm not going to be the
Speaker 2: person that goes it drives me nuts when every serial
Speaker 2: killer they're like, well, his mom didn't let him wear pantyhose,
Speaker 2: so they always serial killers, they always blame the mom.
Speaker 1: They always blame the mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, if my son is a serial killer, it
Speaker 2: is that's his dad. I don't know, let's play it.
Speaker 2: But I just it's like, I don't know, we're talking
Speaker 2: about like our parents kind of set up us on
Speaker 2: a weird track, like totally what what did he not
Speaker 2: get as a child? I don't know, or maybe psychopath
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, maybe all all of it. It seems like a
Speaker 1: lot of cats in a bag.
Speaker 2: Like do you think anyone would bring who's that life
Speaker 2: if they could have another one?
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I think to your point, I
Speaker 1: think some people want attention so badly that they're literally
Speaker 1: willing to do anything to get it. And I do
Speaker 1: find that to be sad. You know, we're having this
Speaker 1: conversation on podcasts other people are going to listen to,
Speaker 1: so what do we know?
Speaker 2: I totally I just kind of like I just always
Speaker 2: go for criminal defense in a way because that just
Speaker 2: makes me go like how would any like how did
Speaker 2: you get there? How could I like if I had
Speaker 2: to defend you. What would I do?
Speaker 1: This is indicative to me of why we both do this,
Speaker 1: because we like to ask questions. I like to interview people. Well,
Speaker 1: you have a podcast, I assume you like it also,
Speaker 1: or you wouldn't do you prefer being interviewed or doing
Speaker 1: the interviewing.
Speaker 2: I kind of stopped having guests recently, really yeah, because
Speaker 2: I just I don't know, I tend to be a
Speaker 2: little wild and a lot of times like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: that was so interesting, and then the day before it
Speaker 2: comes out, they're like, can you cut this part in
Speaker 2: this part in this part? And I'm like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: And I don't want anyone to ever feel like, you know, uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: And I also get so excited to talk to people
Speaker 2: that I feel like I'm interrupting and I'm annoying, and
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just need like a little break
Speaker 2: from from guests. But I also think really quick with
Speaker 2: the Andrew Tate thing, I do think we we talk
Speaker 2: about mental health a lot, but enough people talking about
Speaker 2: when boys are abused, like we think it's like funny,
Speaker 2: like it's like a punchline that like the Catholic priests
Speaker 2: like molested, hideous, like, what do you think those kids
Speaker 2: are going to grow up if we don't, if they
Speaker 2: get no mental health you know, it's like there's no
Speaker 2: mental health care for kids that have been molested in
Speaker 2: the Catholic church. Like there's like alcoholics anonymous, which takes
Speaker 2: place in a church that's not triggering.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's not it, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean? So like, who knows, I don't
Speaker 2: know what. I'm not defending Andrew Taine, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I can see this headline already.
Speaker 1: But here's what's really interesting. I saw this author speaking
Speaker 1: about this recently and it really made me kind of
Speaker 1: double take mentally. She said, you know, I think part
Speaker 1: of the reason that men don't actually want to fix
Speaker 1: the culture of violence perpetuated by men against women, against girls, boys, anyone,
Speaker 1: is because men like saying I'm one of the good guys,
Speaker 1: I'm a protector. I would protect you from a bad guy,
Speaker 1: and if there's no more bad guys, they lose out
Speaker 1: on getting to coseplay the hero.
Speaker 2: So remember there was like talk of is there arsen
Speaker 2: during the LA fires, and I started like doing a
Speaker 2: deep dive on arsenists, and arsenists usually do it to
Speaker 2: help put out the fire. So if you want to
Speaker 2: find someone that committed arsen go look at who's fighting
Speaker 2: the fire.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a famous case of that here in California,
Speaker 1: like a big deal fire chief was actually a California
Speaker 1: arsenist I think in the nineties, like really gnarly. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's just something about that where I
Speaker 1: almost wonder if so many men make victims the punchline
Speaker 1: because they want us lessen the severity of what's being
Speaker 1: done to people, because they like the idea that they're
Speaker 1: not the guy who'd do it, which statistically we know
Speaker 1: is not true. So I don't know, you know, it's weird.
Speaker 1: I just wish they'd go to therapy instead, But here we.
Speaker 2: Are anything to not go to therapy, although I do
Speaker 2: feel like some men use therapy is like a way
Speaker 2: to like have better excuses, like I'm just absolutely avoidant.
Speaker 2: You know, my love language is physical touch with other women.
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, no, no, no, no no no. Therapy is
Speaker 2: not to have scientific excuses to be for your behavior. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the wrong ones will just use it as a way
Speaker 2: to gaslight you into being like yeah, and my dad
Speaker 2: didn't play baseball with me, so I'm avoidant. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you're fifty, dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, grow up, yeah, yeah, no, not just grow up.
Speaker 1: You're avoidant because you like it.
Speaker 2: But I hope you know, Look, I'm sure I was
Speaker 2: incredibly wrong on a lot of things I said, but
Speaker 2: I'm kind of just at a point where I'm like,
Speaker 2: not trying to be right.
Speaker 1: I think there's a real sort of acceptance of self
Speaker 1: and emotional maturity that comes with being able to be
Speaker 1: curious and to say I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 1: I'm curious about this. I'd like more information, and I
Speaker 1: think that's a nice place to be. It's definitely something
Speaker 1: that I.
Speaker 2: Think we all want answers we want. He's a psychopaths an,
Speaker 2: he's this, he's a Republican. He's again, like it makes
Speaker 2: us feel too each I think it makes us feel safe,
Speaker 2: But actually it makes me feel way safer to be
Speaker 2: like two things could be true at once. Actually, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing I'm working on is slowing down and
Speaker 1: asking more questions in some of the phase of life
Speaker 1: I'm in.
Speaker 2: Same someone that you hate, someone who voted differently than you,
Speaker 2: someone who tweets things that piss you off. My thing
Speaker 2: is like, ask them three questions with an open heart
Speaker 2: and see how quickly you have so much more common
Speaker 2: than you thought you did.
Speaker 1: You know, is that kind of curiosity? Is that pac
Speaker 1: like a work in progress for you right now? Or
Speaker 1: is there something that takes that mantle that's.
Speaker 2: Oh like a like a thing I'm doing? Yeah, one
Speaker 2: of Oh, I like this question a big one.
Speaker 1: I'm working whatever your work in progress is right now.
Speaker 2: Because any time you're judging someone else, it's just I'm
Speaker 2: my self esteem is so low. I need to feel
Speaker 2: good about myself right, So what's going on with me
Speaker 2: that I need to judge this person and be like, Oh,
Speaker 2: that person's voted this way, this person's dumb, this is
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, oh, oh, bitch, like with you
Speaker 2: that you needed that quick hit of self righteous indignation. Also,
Speaker 2: usually when I have a negative thought about someone or something,
Speaker 2: it's I've done that, and I don't like that. That
Speaker 2: person's holding up a mirror like I I've done that.
Speaker 2: It's like my default, I've done that. Have I done that?
Speaker 2: I have? You know she's being desperate, like she's being
Speaker 2: so desperate and picked me and done that. I've done it.
Speaker 2: And there's just like a grace that comes with admitting
Speaker 2: that you've done the thing. That's why would it bother
Speaker 2: me so much? Who cares some of my business? Why
Speaker 2: would it bother me so much? If I hadn't done it,
Speaker 2: or if I don't do it, it wouldn't bother me
Speaker 2: if it wasn't holding up a mirror. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: working on good segue looking in the mirror and making
Speaker 2: eye contact with myself, which is really really yeah, have
Speaker 2: you ever tried?
Speaker 1: I guess I don't think about it in that way,
Speaker 1: but I don't think I I don't really look in
Speaker 1: the mirror unless I'm brushing my teeth or getting ready
Speaker 1: for the day.
Speaker 2: But we're not even really looking at ourselves. We're kind
Speaker 2: of like, right, it's a one a twelve step exercise
Speaker 2: to look at yourself in the mirror and have some
Speaker 2: effort like make contact with yourself and like be in
Speaker 2: your skin. I realize I'm often very like in a
Speaker 2: disassociative state where I'm kind of just like not in
Speaker 2: my body. It's a little thing, but I realized when
Speaker 2: I look in the mirror, I'm not looking in the
Speaker 2: mirror at myself and just being like, hey, that's you
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's a creepy thing, but try and
Speaker 2: see what happens.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a good one.
Speaker 2: And I'm don't just do something. Sit there, just like,
Speaker 2: don't respond yet. Yeah, if you think you need to
Speaker 2: respond or say something, just don't. It's like it's like close.
Speaker 2: It's like you know how when you go online and
Speaker 2: you want to get this pair of shoes and if
Speaker 2: you don't add it to your card or don't buy,
Speaker 2: it'll like follow you around for a couple of days.
Speaker 2: You know, the shoes will keep adding popping up and
Speaker 2: you're My thing is like if it needs to be said,
Speaker 2: I can wait two days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: And I didn't need to respond to that. I didn't
Speaker 2: need to say anything to that. I don't need to
Speaker 2: make a point. I don't need to teach someone a lesson.
Speaker 2: Like I don't need to be at war anymore. I
Speaker 2: think it's really important to know. Like you know, they
Speaker 2: say in twelve Star programs, if good news and bad news,
Speaker 2: the good news is the war is over. Bad news
Speaker 2: is you lost. The war is over. And like I
Speaker 2: don't have to fight little wars with emails and stuff,
Speaker 2: to like make sure people respect me and make sure
Speaker 2: like true power comes with not like trying to get power.
Speaker 2: People respect you, you respect yourself, not when you're like,
Speaker 2: you need to respect me. It doesn't work that way,
Speaker 2: you know. So I think it's just doing doing less
Speaker 2: on all parts and sitting with the feeling and not
Speaker 2: needing to take an action because we take an action
Speaker 2: to feel better. Right, Why would you say something like this,
Speaker 2: d D DA defending ourselves Like I don't need to
Speaker 2: defend yourself. No one's attacking me. If someone is doing
Speaker 2: something rude, they're doing that to themselves and has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with me.
Speaker 1: I love that. The theme that keeps coming up for
Speaker 1: me a lot lately is is slowing down. Just how
Speaker 1: nice it is to slow down a little bit.
Speaker 2: Very for people, have to be with your own thoughts.
Speaker 2: It's tough, silence, eye contact, slowing down, all of that.
Speaker 2: I associate slowing down with not being productive, not being busy.
Speaker 2: Busyness was like the pinnacle of success.
Speaker 1: I'm so oh my god. Now I think free time
Speaker 1: is the is the greatest luxury in the world. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be I don't I want to be
Speaker 1: so much less busy.
Speaker 2: We glorified being busy and being tired. Yet when people
Speaker 2: get in the tired Olympics, when they're like, oh I
Speaker 2: only slept four hours last night, I was like, oh
Speaker 2: I only slept two hours. And being sick. I've been
Speaker 2: sick for two weeks. Like we like, no, thank you,
Speaker 2: we should be proud of it. It's like, yeah, what
Speaker 2: did you do today? Not much like I don't have
Speaker 2: to like make it well, I did this and this,
Speaker 2: And I said, like I find myself eating shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you know, like I gardened, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I gardened. I kind of like doing nothing is a thing,
Speaker 2: you know, and being okay with like you know, the
Speaker 2: therapist I used to work with said, uh, she's like
Speaker 2: your problem, Whitney, I mean one of the many. But
Speaker 2: your problem is you conflate boredom and serenity when you
Speaker 2: come from like adrenaline and like you think you're bored,
Speaker 2: but you're actually just at peace. You're not bored. That's
Speaker 2: just peace and quiet. That's the that's the whole, that's
Speaker 2: the contentment. Because I think in the slowness, like what
Speaker 2: you're saying, that's when the growth comes. That's when the
Speaker 2: maturity comes. There's this documentary called cheer The last thing
Speaker 2: I'll say, Uh, it was on I just all feel
Speaker 2: the need to give people like credit for what they said.
Speaker 2: That's profound.
Speaker 1: The one that was on Netflix years ago. Yes, I
Speaker 1: loved that show.
Speaker 2: Morgan. Morgan was a young one who was like kind
Speaker 2: of close, but then she got coached to being great
Speaker 2: in the season. You know, she came from like a
Speaker 2: rough lived with her grandmother whatever, and she you know,
Speaker 2: that show got huge and all of a sudden, she's
Speaker 2: got like sponsorship since she's on TikTok and she's punk
Speaker 2: sponsorships with Scrunchy and you know, all this stuff stick
Speaker 2: and Starbucks. And I saw one of the live shows.
Speaker 2: I'm just like a fan of these girls because I
Speaker 2: also am obsessed with all my internalized misogyny that you
Speaker 2: never like creeps up on you. Because I remember I
Speaker 2: was always like cheerleaders, h you know, I played basketball.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, like jealous obviously, but I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: cheerlady is a sport, okay. And then watching this, I
Speaker 2: was like, whoa, these are like incredible athletes and it
Speaker 2: was just my internalized sexism really right, And I asked her.
Speaker 2: I was like, she's nineteen years old, like this was happening.
Speaker 2: I was like, how are you doing? Like what are
Speaker 2: you going to do this summer? And she's like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to take a couple months off and I was
Speaker 2: like oh, and she's like yeah, I just need time
Speaker 2: to like process all this.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Like what, like what? I didn't even know that was
Speaker 2: an option? What do you mean process?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: Eve minutes a day, I sit down and I process
Speaker 2: my life. I'm like process, Like I haven't even thought
Speaker 2: to go like that happened? That was crazy. Yeah, Like
Speaker 2: sometimes I just go through my photo album. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to go like day to time and go like I
Speaker 2: just associated through that entire thing. And I've designed my
Speaker 2: life to be so chaotic that I haven't had a
Speaker 2: second to even process any of this. Right, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't make time to process our feelings, our emotions,
Speaker 2: our life anything.
Speaker 1: Oh maybe it's not an accident that all of us
Speaker 1: are ready to slow down.
Speaker 2: It's kind of the new It's a flex.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like it.
Speaker 2: It's a flex.
Speaker 1: I'm proud of us.
Speaker 3: I know good too.
Speaker 1: We're no hell Like yeah.
Speaker 2: People were like you look so good. I stop getting
Speaker 2: botox about people like you look at them like I've
Speaker 2: just like kind of sleep, and I like, I'm not
Speaker 2: in toxic relationships or friendships anymore. If I need to
Speaker 2: be somewhere at four and it takes a half hour,
Speaker 2: I leave it three point fifteen, like yeah, just in case,
Speaker 2: you know, just kind of like not doing the adrenaline thing.
Speaker 1: I love that for you, I love that for us.
Speaker 2: We're the best.
Speaker 1: We ended on such a high note.