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Speaker 1: This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought you by

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Speaker 1: the linked attacks of the minds that restrict your ground

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Speaker 1: movement and the pinpoint missile attacks from the air. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it's brought you by us. We're having a meet up

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Speaker 1: on October two thousand and seventeen. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: at the Lucky Labrador Pub on killings Worth here in

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Speaker 1: Portland at six thirty pm. Go online, look up the directions,

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Speaker 1: go to our side or our Facebook and they'll be

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Speaker 1: post about it and you can R s v P.

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Speaker 1: But all are welcome, all ages and we will see

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Speaker 1: you then. Second, hey, guys, welcome them to another episode

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Speaker 1: of Thinking Sideways. The podcast I Am Devon joined this

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Speaker 1: week by and Joe. Today we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: mystery that Joe petitioned really really hard to call the

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Speaker 1: day Superman died. But I think we decided that was copyrighted. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: DC Comics did that in the nineties. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know that they can actually copyright there because I mean,

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Speaker 1: actually that that title was used for at least one

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Speaker 1: other essay that i've that was published and copyrighted also,

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Speaker 1: so it's copyrighted. So it's copyrighted and if you could

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Speaker 1: use it when somebody else had already used it, then

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Speaker 1: we can use it too. Well, we're gonna just call

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Speaker 1: this the death of George Reeves. Yeah, much safer. This

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Speaker 1: was also a listener suggestion. It was suggested by Clarissa

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Speaker 1: explains it all thanks joke about the TV show. Yeah, okay, no,

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Speaker 1: that's her name. Oh yeah, just kidding. I'm sorry. I'm

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Speaker 1: really sorry. You probably hate that joke, Clarissa, So thank

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Speaker 1: you for suggesting this mystery. On June sixteenth, nineteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: George Reeves died of a gunshot wound to the head

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Speaker 1: between one thirty and two a m. According to the

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Speaker 1: l A p. D. And, George Reeves is the first

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Speaker 1: man who played Superman on television. On television, Yeah, he was.

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Speaker 1: I think he was the first motion pick. There was

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Speaker 1: a motion picture before him. I thought, yeah, no, so

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Speaker 1: he's the first one on television. Well, no, I thought

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Speaker 1: he made it. He made the Moleman Superman movie before

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Speaker 1: the TV That was basically the pilot of the TV show. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he's saying somebody else, but that was the movie,

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Speaker 1: the Superman movie. Was there another Superman movie before that one?

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Speaker 1: I think there was, because he's not. Because so the

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Speaker 1: thing is is like, there's this thing that we're not

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Speaker 1: actually talking about here, which is called the Curse of Superman.

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Speaker 1: And I remember looking at that list and there were

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Speaker 1: people listed before him as having fallen prey to the curse.

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Speaker 1: So I think that there were other movies before that,

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Speaker 1: But I didn't think the character was that much older

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Speaker 1: than the actual TV show. I thought it was like

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Speaker 1: the fifties is when Superman was born, Superman fought Nazis. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: the reason that it's okay for us to not know

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Speaker 1: this is because this is not an episode about Superman,

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Speaker 1: just an actor who played Superman. Can we not there's

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Speaker 1: an actor who played Superman that we probably shouldn't talk about,

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Speaker 1: which one was that it's just Ben Affleck because he

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Speaker 1: was in he was in a movie and he didn't

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Speaker 1: suffer the curse. Well everybody, not everybody who's played Superman

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Speaker 1: has suffered the Curse of Superman. Well, then that's a

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Speaker 1: crappy curse. Yeah, he didn't actually play Superman. That he

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Speaker 1: played a guy who played Superman called George Reeves. That's

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Speaker 1: how he escaped it. Yeah, he was one stepper moves Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Kevin, we've taken your way off track in

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Speaker 1: the first two minutes. Fine. Um. Officially, George Reeves committed

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Speaker 1: suicide on that fateful night of June six between one

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Speaker 1: am and two am from a gunshot into the head

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Speaker 1: to mind everyone, but a lot of people think that

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Speaker 1: he was actually murder herd and it's actually been heavily

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Speaker 1: speculated upon for many, many years. Almost sixty a long time, yeah,

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Speaker 1: almost half your age. Um. So the way we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do this is we're gonna um start by talking about

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Speaker 1: Reeves and his history, and then we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the events leading up to and then we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about theories. Okay, that's good to me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So George Reeves was actually born George Keefer Brewer in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen. His parents separated just after birth, and he

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Speaker 1: had very little contact with his father. Both his mother

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Speaker 1: and his father did remarry, and his stepmother basically like said,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to be a part of this kid's life. Bye.

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Speaker 1: But his mom married a guy named Frank Beslo, and

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Speaker 1: Reeves took the last name Besslo. He was adopted by

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Speaker 1: his stepfather. The marriage lasted about fifteen years, but his

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Speaker 1: there and stepfather separated apparently while Reeves was visiting some

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Speaker 1: family like somewhere else. It's super messed up, and instead

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Speaker 1: of telling Reeves what had happened, that she had gotten

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Speaker 1: another divorce and things weren't working out, blah blah, she

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Speaker 1: decided that it would be better to just tell Reeves

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Speaker 1: that his stepfather had committed suicide. It's super messed up.

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Speaker 1: And actually he apparently believed that his stepfather was dead

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Speaker 1: for like years. Um. I think this caused a bit

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Speaker 1: of a rift between him and his mother later. I

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Speaker 1: think it did. But I also think that this is

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Speaker 1: one of those things where if you believe during formative years,

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Speaker 1: believed that somebody who was really important to you committed suicide.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of times psychologists say that helps

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Speaker 1: shape your brain for maybe not being particularly happy all

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Speaker 1: the time. I don't know. I'm not a psychologist. Caveat,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a doctor, but I do think it's always

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Speaker 1: important to mention that when telling the story. Yeah, reeves

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Speaker 1: first big film was this little um indie production you

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Speaker 1: may or may not have heard of, called Gone with

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Speaker 1: the Wind. For years before that, he actually he started

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Speaker 1: acting in like middle school or something like that, and

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Speaker 1: then here pretty much. So when his step mom um

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Speaker 1: and his father, or when his mom and his dad

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Speaker 1: got a divorce and his mom moved to them to

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Speaker 1: l A to live with her sister, and so he

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Speaker 1: lived most of his life IMDb page. And he had

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Speaker 1: I think he had acting credits in like thirty five

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Speaker 1: or thirty nine. That was his first one. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: had been acting for a long time, but yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was totally sexual extras and stuff like that. So his

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Speaker 1: first actual role was in Gone with the Wind. And

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Speaker 1: he also had a boxing career. I guess I heard

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Speaker 1: you guys knows broken like nine times, and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think eventually decided to acting would be I think

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Speaker 1: he did, Yeah, I mean he actually he played Scarlett

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Speaker 1: O'Hara's love interest in Gone with the Wind. It was

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Speaker 1: one of the first love interests. And I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know that's pretty big role except he looked yeah, well yes,

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Speaker 1: but if he had crazy crazy colored Yeah, they died

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Speaker 1: their hair red. He and another actor. What happened that

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Speaker 1: in those days was you would sign with a studio.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen old movies. You know he works, right,

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Speaker 1: So Reeves signed with Warner Brothers. At that time, he

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Speaker 1: was Frank Beslo and then the studio gave him his

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Speaker 1: professional name quote unquote professional name. They changed your name

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Speaker 1: is something they thought people liked better. Yeah, so his

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Speaker 1: name became became George Reeves at that time. And I

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Speaker 1: will say there were some really interesting naming situations that

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Speaker 1: happened back then, and we're going to talk about some

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Speaker 1: of those people. In fact, actually reading this particular thing

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Speaker 1: kind of feel like I'm trapped in a comic book

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Speaker 1: and some of the names that some of these people

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Speaker 1: have in this story. We'll get there, we'll get into

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Speaker 1: a speakeasy. Yeah. In June of nineteen fifty one, Reeves

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Speaker 1: was offered the role of Superman for a television show

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Speaker 1: called The Adventures of Superman and Joe. You're correct that

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Speaker 1: he was. He did portray Superman in uh, Supermoman and

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Speaker 1: Superman or whatever that one is called. Yeah, but that

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Speaker 1: was literally the studio produced it as a pilot to

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Speaker 1: the TV series. So he was cast for the Adventures

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Speaker 1: of Superman and they said, Okay, we're gonna do this

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Speaker 1: pilot and then it'll become this TV show. I got

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Speaker 1: to check and see if Superman in the Moment is

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Speaker 1: available on Netflix. I don't think it probably is. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like he really took his role as a role model.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome. Seriously, he was really, I mean, he really

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Speaker 1: was the face of Superman. I mean, there's this story

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Speaker 1: that you hear where this kid and this was not

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Speaker 1: how he died, but a kid once pulled a gun

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Speaker 1: on him because he thought he was actually Superman. He thought, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I bet kids were also walking and pushing push pins

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Speaker 1: into him. Yeah, because they all thought that he was

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Speaker 1: actually Superman. They didn't understand the disconnect, which I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, kids to this day still have

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Speaker 1: that problem. Well, but you gotta remember also, TV is

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Speaker 1: brand new, such a new concept, and when when you

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Speaker 1: grow up with television, it's a concept, you get it.

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Speaker 1: But when it's this brand new thing, like it really

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Speaker 1: is Superman. Wow. Yeah, I mean yeah, he actually you

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Speaker 1: know to the point where he um he was a

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Speaker 1: smoker because like everyone was a smoker back then, But

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Speaker 1: as soon as he became the face of Superman, he

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Speaker 1: never smoked when there were kids around or like people

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Speaker 1: were taking pictures of him, and eventually he stopped smoking.

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Speaker 1: He tried really hard to keep his private life really private,

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Speaker 1: although it didn't work out in his later years. But

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Speaker 1: and I will say, just because he was Superman does

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Speaker 1: not mean that he was actually making millions of dollars. Actually,

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Speaker 1: stuff didn't pay so good. He was basically broke, as

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Speaker 1: it turns out. And so and I can tell you why.

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Speaker 1: I mean, okay, not oh my god like pittance, right,

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Speaker 1: but for for a man of his fame, he was

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Speaker 1: really he didn't have very much money at all. The

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Speaker 1: reason was was that they weren't they weren't paying a

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Speaker 1: lot for the role itself. And they had this thing

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Speaker 1: called a four week clause or something like that in

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Speaker 1: his contract where basically, at any point the studio could

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Speaker 1: demand they start production on a new season of Adventures

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Speaker 1: of Superman four weeks before four weeks on any other projects. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't. Well really, I mean at that point everything

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Speaker 1: is kind of a long term project. Anything that's going

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Speaker 1: to pay you money. We're shooting schedule with a two

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Speaker 1: month buffer, so that's what four twelve, So that's a

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Speaker 1: five months out of the year. So he could take

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Speaker 1: a little two and three and four months assignments. He

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Speaker 1: could not guarantee he couldn't guarantee. Well, that was the thing.

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Speaker 1: He couldn't guarantee after that three or four month time

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Speaker 1: frame that he would be to hang around. So that's

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Speaker 1: why it was hard. No, not even three or four months.

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Speaker 1: They could. They could a month after they wrapped production

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Speaker 1: have said Okay, we're doing another one, and he would

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Speaker 1: have four weeks notice. And I mean they read that

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Speaker 1: everywhere and everybody makes it out, but listen to the

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Speaker 1: studio wasn't going to just whip out a season's worth

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Speaker 1: of scripts in no time flat like that. I think

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Speaker 1: that it's I really feel like that was made out

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Speaker 1: to be the original Superman TV show. It is totally

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Speaker 1: about ten minutes. I know, you could jump, But my

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Speaker 1: point is they had enough stuff going on that I

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Speaker 1: don't think that they were just going to immediately call

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Speaker 1: the cast back because it wasn't like they could put

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Speaker 1: them out on television until later on anyway. But it

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Speaker 1: does like that is overplayed, is all I'm getting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it, but it does seem like it was

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Speaker 1: a really kind of hard situation for him to be in.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of a lot of the whole

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Speaker 1: studio system I think really trapped a lot of actors,

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Speaker 1: a lot of were jerked around and not really paid

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Speaker 1: all that well, all that well really, yeah, he's not

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Speaker 1: the only one, true, but he apparently was also getting

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Speaker 1: paid for reruns. Yeah, but not I mean not, I

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Speaker 1: mean he was getting money from it. Again, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying he was making huge amounts of money. You know,

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Speaker 1: that was longer he did at the more sustaining cash

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Speaker 1: that turned into for a while. Yeah. And then as

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Speaker 1: far as his personal life goes, Reeves was married for

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Speaker 1: ten years early in his life before he kind of

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Speaker 1: made it into the Superman. Yeah, pretty much before he

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Speaker 1: met Superman. He was he was married for ten years,

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Speaker 1: and then he had an eight year relationship with a

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Speaker 1: show girl and then ended that. And at the time

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Speaker 1: of his death, he was maybe engaged, probably engaged to

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Speaker 1: a woman named Lenore Lennon, one of those names Lenor Lemon.

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Speaker 1: That's why I said it's like being in a comic book. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure she was if they actually were engaged,

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Speaker 1: or she just made that up all she I don't

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Speaker 1: think it was after the fact. I think the sense

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Speaker 1: was she had been going around telling people that they

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Speaker 1: were going to Spain to Elope On June nineteen of

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Speaker 1: fifty nine, three days after he died. They were said

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Speaker 1: to alope, I have not seen anywhere that he was

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Speaker 1: also saying, yeah, we're going to Elope blow blah blah.

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Speaker 1: You know, but the senses that they he at least

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Speaker 1: tolerated her telling people that maybe, yeah, maybe maybe it's possible.

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Speaker 1: We'll and we'll get into that a little bit. Now

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Speaker 1: we're we're solidly into the events leading up to phase

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Speaker 1: you guys ready, yeah, okay, al right, So, as mentioned,

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Speaker 1: there are some really colorfully named characters here, and those

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Speaker 1: are These are all the people that were present on

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Speaker 1: the night of his death. I'm just gonna tell you, yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of like who was who we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about. I just want to get the names and

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Speaker 1: their relation. You were doing like cast characters. Then we're

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Speaker 1: going to do events leading up to Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: So Leonora Lemon, the fiance or maybe not, we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna call the fiance. Was there William Bliss who was Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a heating engineer who lived like down the street

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Speaker 1: from So I mean, that's a great great example of

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Speaker 1: how maybe not rich Reeves was right. He was living

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Speaker 1: close to like a heating engineer, not necessarily like, well,

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Speaker 1: he lived in a fairly modest little house. Definitely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but so Billy Bliss was also there. And nobody's quite

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Speaker 1: sure why Billy Bliss was present. But a man by

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Speaker 1: the name of Robert Cott Condon, thank you. I keep

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Speaker 1: wanting to say Condon, but that's not right Condon. And

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Speaker 1: he was a writer who was writing a story about

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Speaker 1: a famous boxer who happened to be loosely connected to Reeves.

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Speaker 1: And then um, he was staying with Reeves at the time,

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Speaker 1: and um, Karen Carol van Ronkle's great name. She lived

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Speaker 1: a few blocks away with her husband, screenwriter Rip Van Ronkle,

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Speaker 1: which is like what jerk at the studio was like, Okay, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: we have your professional name for you. Are you ready.

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Speaker 1: It's it's Ripped van Wonkele. You're ready. Yeah. He might

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Speaker 1: have been born like, you know, Fred or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and he just picked up the nickname Ripped van Ronkle.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Carol van Ronkele apparently was also having

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Speaker 1: an affair with Condon, the writer. According to this group

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Speaker 1: previously colorfully named group of people, Lemon and Reeves had

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Speaker 1: gone to dinner with Condon, and all of the accounts

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Speaker 1: that I have read are very sure to mention that

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Speaker 1: they were also drinking a lot. They and they. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like this group of people was they did drink

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Speaker 1: a lot, but it's always they went out to dinner

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Speaker 1: and drank. Reeves and Lemon had an argument at the

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Speaker 1: restaurant in front of Condon, and then the three returned home.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was wait, you've been telling people were yeah,

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was wait. Probably Condon was like, are you

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Speaker 1: excited to go to Spain? And He's like, what for?

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Speaker 1: What do you mean we're going to Spain. Later, during

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Speaker 1: an interview for Reeves's biography, however, Lemon actually said that

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Speaker 1: she and Reeves had gone to a wrestling match that night.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like reeves is friend Jean LaBelle, who was

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Speaker 1: a famous wrestler at the time, was wrestling that night

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Speaker 1: in town. But LaBelle said that he saw Reeves at

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Speaker 1: his workout session earlier that day, but he didn't ever

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Speaker 1: remember seeing Reeves after the fact. So there's a bit

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Speaker 1: of a conflict of stories there, so we can't pin

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Speaker 1: it down not totally. Yeah, that was a wrestling pun.

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Speaker 1: Oh see, I don't know restling this guys good. So

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Speaker 1: either way, Reeves and Lemon and Condon end up back

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Speaker 1: at Reeves's house. I should be mentioned Lemon was living

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Speaker 1: with Reeves at the time, but it wasn't she had

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Speaker 1: no ownership of the house or any thing like that.

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Speaker 1: Somewhere near midnight, after Reeves had gone to bed after

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Speaker 1: a heavy night of drinking, an impromptu party started downstairs

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Speaker 1: when Bliss and Carol Van Ronkle, who we're going to

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Speaker 1: call Van Ronkle from here on out because Rip van

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Speaker 1: Ronkle isn't actually part of this story. I just like

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Speaker 1: saying his name. So Bliss and Van Ronkle arrive at

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Speaker 1: the Reeves home around midnight. So it's, um, these people

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Speaker 1: are just like I guess they're just like all late

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Speaker 1: night parties or something. Yeah, typically I don't just go

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Speaker 1: dropping in on people's houses at midnight. I don't really either,

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Speaker 1: But so it's they're the feeling. These people drank together

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Speaker 1: on a semi regular basis and probably said, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a little after twelve, she'll be up. Let's over

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Speaker 1: to see the lights run. If you are, we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: walk in and we'll have some drinks. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: they were maybe making a bit of a ruckus, and

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Speaker 1: so Reeves kind of storms downstairs and complains about the noise.

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Speaker 1: Apparent this is all according to the four people who

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Speaker 1: were drinking heavily there that night. Um Reeves comes down

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Speaker 1: and he's angry about the noise and why are you

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Speaker 1: having this party? And Lemon kind of says, well, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're just I don't know, we're just partying,

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Speaker 1: and Reeves somehow calms down and decides to stay and

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Speaker 1: drink a little more. But after his like one drink,

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Speaker 1: he apparently pops back right into a bad mood and

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Speaker 1: storms back upstairs. Um, which I actually identified deeply with,

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Speaker 1: woke you up? No, I just like being a woken

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Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night. I'll you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like hate everything, and then I'm like, all right, fine,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm here. No, I hated it. The work

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Speaker 1: like dip back and forth pretty quickly. Anyway, an unidentified

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Speaker 1: amount of time later, maybe a drink's worth, so probably

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Speaker 1: around one thirty or two, the party has heard a

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Speaker 1: quote single gun shot from upstair airs. Bliss ran upstairs

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Speaker 1: into Reeves's bedroom and found him lying across the bed dead.

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Speaker 1: His naked body was facing upward, his feet were on

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Speaker 1: the floor and face up on the bed. Ye oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was, yes, sorry, So like to explain it a

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Speaker 1: little bit better, I guess investigators thought that he had

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Speaker 1: been sitting on the edge of the bed and then

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Speaker 1: killed himself, and he just fell back on the bed,

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Speaker 1: so you can imagine that picture. Investigators found a thirty

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Speaker 1: caliber Lugar pistol between his feet, which they thought had

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Speaker 1: fallen from his hand. Um Statements made by the witnesses

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Speaker 1: to the police on that night, as well as press

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Speaker 1: a little bit later, essentially agree, though there are some

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Speaker 1: discrepancies and there was a fairly significant delay in reporting

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Speaker 1: this didn't did. None of the guests seemed to be

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Speaker 1: really concerned with the delay, though, they just said, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, we were shocked, it was late. We were drunk,

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Speaker 1: That's why it took us so long to call you.

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Speaker 1: My story straight. Yeah, no, none of that. The police

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00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: did say that again, all the witnesses were like really

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Speaker 1: really really drunk, and so getting coherent stories from them

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Speaker 1: was like almost impossible that night. So there you go, there,

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Speaker 1: George Reeves there, and George Reeves apparently death of Superman,

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Speaker 1: death of one of the many Superman's. Yeah, so that

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Speaker 1: is the story. We're going to flush the story out

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Speaker 1: a little bit more when we talk about theories. But

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Speaker 1: it is that time. What time, theories time. But before

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Speaker 1: we do that, let's take a break. This is the

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Speaker 1: worst bus ride ever. The tension is unbearable. The screaming

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00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: waves of panic and fear just aren't helping. There's a

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00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: man with a knife and you can see him so

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00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: clearly every freaking detail. Are you sweating? Yeah? You are

358
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: what possessed you to get on this bus. You knew

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00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 1: that it was creepy and dark and cold out, and

360
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: yet you still did it. Why? Why did you begin

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00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: the next chapter of the audio thriller you've been listening

362
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 1: to all week? This is your own fault, and you

363
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: know it. That's the great thing about audiobooks. You can

364
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: just turn them off. And now we're gonna help you

365
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: scare the but Jesus out of yourself by helping you

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00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: get the next scary book on your list. Support for

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00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: today's show comes from Audible. Audible's content includes an unmatched

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00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: And since it's getting close to Halloween, I'd suggest that

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00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 1: you listen to Closet Treats by Paul E. Cooley. I've

381
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: been listening to Paul's work for years, and if you

382
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: want a story that we'll get your blood pumping, then

383
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: I'd recommend it. He's been giving me creepy nightmares for

384
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 1: many years. Get a free audio book with a thirty

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Speaker 1: dot com slash sideways s I D E W A

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Speaker 1: Y S for a free audio book with your thirty

388
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: day trial. Because but Jesus is a real thing and

389
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: you should get it scared out of you every now

390
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: and again. And we're back. Okay, theories, Yeah, theories. Yeah, cool, cool.

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Speaker 1: And actually, before we go too far into theories, I

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Speaker 1: just want to pause us to apologize. We're all sitting

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Speaker 1: in a room in Portland, Oregon, which is like pretty

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00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: much just surrounded by fire right now, and so um,

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Speaker 1: there's like, well, no, there's there's there's a little smoky

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00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: and you know, houses don't seal, and so if you

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Speaker 1: get a couple of voice cracks or anything in there,

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Speaker 1: we apologize. I'll try to keep it to a minimum,

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Speaker 1: but it might have We'll try. I can't cut that out,

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00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: damn dang it. All right, So our first theory he

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00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: is um the official story, which is that he committed suicide.

402
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,479
Speaker 1: Of course, this one, the suicide angle, did focus a

403
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Speaker 1: lot on Um. As you can imagine, being the face

404
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: of Superman is both a blessing and a curse. You know,

405
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: we've seen this happen with actors contemporarily, where they have

406
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: a really hard time getting cast in any kind of

407
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: roles after they play these like big signature roles in

408
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Speaker 1: these franchises because people just think like, oh, that's just

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00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: Harry Potter. But you know, but yeah, I think about

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00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: it is is these days you get typecasts, say Harry Potter, Well,

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00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 1: you made a boatload of money playing Harry Potter, so

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Speaker 1: even if you never get another job again. Yeah, not

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00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: so for George Reeves. Yeah, so it was he was

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Speaker 1: struggling to find acting jobs after The Adventures of Superman

415
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Speaker 1: had been canceled, which had been during during because of

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00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: the four week thing, but then after because it had

417
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: been canceled by this point. Yeah, because he well, I

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00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: mean he when he initially started, I think he had

419
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Speaker 1: filmed a movie and I can't think of something eating

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Speaker 1: in the Garden of Eating or something like that. I

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00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: can't think of the name of it. And it had

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Speaker 1: such a long schedule to get it out in the

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Speaker 1: world that the first season of Superman had aired already,

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Speaker 1: and when people saw him in a different role in

425
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: that movie, they pointed at the screen and she had

426
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: a Superman. And apparently, according to him, that's when he

427
00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: knew his career was screwed, because he couldn't be recognized,

428
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: is anything. But I think at the times, I think

429
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: the Superman was also canceled, But I think at the

430
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: time of his death, at least I heard him more

431
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: in two places that they had decided to renew the

432
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: show after all and bring him back. Um, maybe they had,

433
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: they were in talks, but it sounds like a couple

434
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: of days before he had been notified that maybe that

435
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: deal had actually fallen through because they were having a

436
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: hard time getting people to agree to do it. And

437
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: then but from his perspective, of course it would be

438
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 1: either way. Be kind of a happy said thing. I mean,

439
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: it would be a paycheck. But at the same time,

440
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: he hated the role. Yeah. Yeah. He called the Superman

441
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: outfit his monkey suit. Yeah. Yeah, he burned it at

442
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: the end of every season. It's just so sad if

443
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: you think about it from a memoriad bilia standpoint, what

444
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: would that be worth today? Yeah? If he had just like,

445
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: hang onto these stupid things and I'll sell him a

446
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: few years, it'll be worth a boatload of cash. But no,

447
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: he's like, I have a bottle. Yeah. So you know,

448
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: it sounds like he was struggling to get work and

449
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: maybe there was the Superman thing, but it was looking

450
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: like maybe that wasn't actually going to come through. He

451
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: was also known to be a party animal if the

452
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: events leading up to didn't clue you into that, and

453
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: late night losing was pretty common between him and his friends.

454
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: He had actually been drinking that night again and was

455
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: very drunk, point to seven drunk. That's pretty respectable, real drunk.

456
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: And he also happened to be on pain killers from

457
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 1: injuries that he had sustained from a car accident a

458
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: couple of weeks beforehand. And we'll talk about that. Yes,

459
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that car accident in a little bit.

460
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 1: Don't spoil anything I want to say. Is he racked

461
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: up his jag, You are must have been heartbreaking for

462
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: maybe that's why he killed himself. Maybe all these things

463
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: put together makes an okay start to the official theory.

464
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: You know, you're kind of down on your luck, prone

465
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: to depression, you're super super drunk, you're on pain killers.

466
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: You know, you've maybe just had a big fight with

467
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: your fiancee for whatever reason. It's at least an okay

468
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: start to the idea that that might lead somebody to

469
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: kill themselves. There was also no sign of forced entry,

470
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: and the guests below said that they didn't hear anything odd,

471
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: but again, granted, this assumes a lot. It assumes first

472
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 1: of all, this is l a in the fifties in June,

473
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: so no air conditioning probably, so probably open windows because

474
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: it's hot and the layout of the house is such

475
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: that it would it'd be easy to get into the

476
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: master bedroom with nobody seeing you. As to the oh,

477
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: we didn't hear anything weird, I'm sure they're playing music

478
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: and being loud and downstairs because they were being loud. No, well,

479
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: that's literally their story is they said we were being

480
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: loud and that he came down and he was angry

481
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: that we had woken him up because we were being loud,

482
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: like of course, yeah. And it also this also assumes

483
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: that I would assume that Reeves, at the time of

484
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: his going to bed, was not the drunkest of the group,

485
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: and he did not continue to drink. Really, so the

486
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: group that continued to drink would have been probably even

487
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: more more intoxicated than I don't know if that's true,

488
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: because he, according to this, not too long after he

489
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: went back upstairs the shot happened, and they weren't home

490
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: for very long and him in bed before the friends

491
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: showed up, So I don't it's not as if there

492
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: was a great span of time in between that, I

493
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: would say that they were all probably around the same level. Right,

494
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: That's what I'm sorry, That's what I'm trying to get out,

495
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: is that they were can actually get much higher than

496
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: point to seven without dying anyway, Right, Yeah, a lot

497
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: of them have, but I you know, it depends on

498
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: I think probably everybody was about that same level. So

499
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: this also assumes that they would have been coherent and

500
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: observant enough to notice if anything weird was going on. Oh,

501
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: and also would assumes they were telling the truth. Yeah,

502
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: there's that. Um. Now, George Reeves's mother, you will remember,

503
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: was a figure in this. At one point, she really

504
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: did not agree with the suicide ruling. It's kind of

505
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: ironic when you think about it. Yeah, he really is, um,

506
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure she was like, no, he's just getting back

507
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: at me, getting back at me for lying to him

508
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: all these years. She was not happy with this finding.

509
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: For whatever reason, she retained attorney Jerry Geisler to petition

510
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: for reinvestigation of the case as maybe a murder. The so,

511
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: they did a second autopsy on Reeves's body, and the

512
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: findings were exactly the same as the first, except that

513
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: there was a series of bruises of unknown origin around

514
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: his head and body. And then this investigation went on

515
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: for about a month. It didn't uncover any new evidence,

516
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: and so basically they had to side that yes, the

517
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: gunshot Wind was self inflicted and he did commit suicide.

518
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: So unfortunately that investigation was withdrawn and the official thing,

519
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,719
Speaker 1: official cause of death remains suicide. I don't think he

520
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: killed himself, thank you. I gotta admit that some reason,

521
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: I think not. I mean, you know, people say, well,

522
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: what George Rees was depressed for years over the fact

523
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: that he was, you know, pigeonholed into planning Superman. Yeah,

524
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: he had been doing it for seven or eight years.

525
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: You would think that if it was gonna have gotten

526
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: to him, it would have to the point that he

527
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: would want to end his life. It would have been

528
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: prior to that. Well, except for the fact that it

529
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: happens to coincide with this like maybe glimmer of hope

530
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: of you know again better Bitter Sweet, but that they

531
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: were talking about reviving it and then maybe it had

532
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: fallen through. So maybe that ended up being kind of

533
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: the last straw where he kind of thought, oh, this

534
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: is looking better. At least I can go be Superman

535
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: again and make some money and be like maybe I'm

536
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: not gonna love it, but whatever, And then it fell

537
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: through and he was like, oh, I can't even be

538
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: Superman anymore. Grill and his his road show that he

539
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: was putting together was kind of falling apart. Did you

540
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: read about that? So do you want to tell people

541
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: about this? Because why don't you tell me? He would

542
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: go to these he would do these exhibition matches as

543
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: Superman against you know, well known boxing or wrestling figures

544
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: and have the you know, they d get out, and

545
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: he had done this several times. Is the way to

546
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,479
Speaker 1: generate cash. And on his latest one, he had been

547
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: training for three or four weeks. My account for the bruises,

548
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: which would very well account for the bruising because he was,

549
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, sparring. But he found out that of all

550
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: I don't remember how many people he had put out

551
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: feelers to to say come on, you want to get

552
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: on board, only one of them said yes. So the

553
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: whole thing was basically tanked right then and there, which

554
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: is a reason for a guy to be upset and depressed.

555
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, because he probably needed the money. Yeah, I

556
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: think he made as much is he hated Superman it

557
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: was his cash cow. Yeah, it's true. So let's talk

558
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: about some of the stuff that makes people think that

559
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: maybe Reeves was actually murdered, aside from the fact that

560
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: there's not really a reason for suicide. Okay, as mentioned,

561
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: I think it is possible that somebody could have easily

562
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: entered the house without anybody downstairs having seen it, or

563
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 1: without any signs of forced entry. But wait, Devin, whenever

564
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: you read this on the internet, they say he died

565
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: in a windowless room. Well, maybe the room that he

566
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: was in was windowless, but the bathroom it was attached

567
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: to wasn't, nor the bedroom that was right next door. Yea.

568
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: Some those websites have the black background with white text. Yeah,

569
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: those are favorites. Reeves home was a split level home.

570
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: They called it a splanch. I think there was a

571
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,479
Speaker 1: split level branch home. So, and there's drawings out there.

572
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: I think will probably link to one of them because

573
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: I can't describe it as well as a drawing can,

574
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: but I'm going to try real hard. The way that

575
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: it was set up was there was the master bedroom,

576
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: and for those of you who don't know what a

577
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: master bedroom is, it's a bedroom with a bathroom attached

578
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: to it, and the bathroom the master bathroom had a

579
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: window that opened right onto the roof of the house.

580
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: Window small, but I mean somebody could climb through it.

581
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: It's not so small that it'd be impossible. The size

582
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: of window the teen injury used to escape on rendezvous

583
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: at night on a regular basis, Yeah, pretty much. And

584
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: the roof that that bedroom window opened onto was above

585
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: the den, which was connected to the family room, which

586
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: the family room was below the bedroom. Is my understanding

587
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: of that house, it was upper floor was master bedroom,

588
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: there was a lower floor was the was the living

589
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: room and end, and then the second bedroom was the

590
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: mid level one. It was in between, but the den

591
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: was That's why they call it the split level, right.

592
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: But the living room was under the bedroom and the

593
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: den just had a roof over it, yes, And then um,

594
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: in between those two there was a part that went

595
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: out and there was a guest bedroom which was where

596
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: Condon was staying. But it would have there were windows

597
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: into that room as well from a part of the house.

598
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: But I don't have a good sense of if I

599
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: don't actually know where. I think the party was in

600
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: the den, but they could have been in the living room.

601
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: I don't actually know which area they were in because

602
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: they were kind of connected, and I don't know if

603
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: from where that group was if you could see into

604
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: the guest bedroom or into the hallway. So if it

605
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: were me breaking into this house, I would just go

606
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: for the bedroom bathroom window and call it a day.

607
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: And again, you know the roof above, so that means

608
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: somebody's walking on the roof above where these people are.

609
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: But these people are being allowed, so regardless, they are

610
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: multiple points of entry other than the front door. And

611
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: again I I'll reiterate that I I have not ever

612
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: seen that the windows were open or not, but I

613
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: cannot imagine being in l A in June without the

614
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: windows open. Just my two cents. In addition to the

615
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: fact that it would be pretty easy for somebody to

616
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: actually have gotten into the house without forcing entry, there

617
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: are some kind of odd findings at the crime scene.

618
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: There were nor no fingerprints on the gun, no muzzle

619
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: discharge burns, you know the kind that are usually found

620
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: in cases like this, on his head. On his head.

621
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: There is a report that there was no gunshot residue

622
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: found on Reeves's hand, but I don't actually think that

623
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 1: they tested for that at this time in history. So

624
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: I just I want to throw that in there because

625
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: you're going to see that parodied like everywhere. But I

626
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: want to give you also the information that it's it's

627
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: probably it's probably not legitimate. Um. I have actually have

628
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: a question for Joe. Okay, Joe, I've read in a

629
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: number of places that say there were no fingerprints on

630
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: the gun because it was too well oiled. Do you

631
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: know what they mean by that, well, other than the

632
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: fact that you know, the oil would just fill in

633
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: and no, I mean it's like a lot of gun

634
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: owners are really you know, especially have a really nice gun,

635
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to rust it, especially when you handle

636
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: a gun you have when you have the gun, you

637
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: have a lot of acids and things that are in

638
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: your sweat. And so a lot of people will wipe

639
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: their gun down after they've played with it or use

640
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: it or whatever, wipe it down with an oily rag.

641
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: But if it's got oil on it, that doesn't mean

642
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: you're you're not going to leave fingerprints. But if you say,

643
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: I've been playing with your gun and then you wipe

644
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: it off, you know, because you know you don't want rust,

645
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: and then you put it away whatever. Then you decided

646
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: to kill yourself. You pick the gun up. Uh, A

647
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: luker has got wooden hand grips on it, and so

648
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: if you assuming you don't play with it passing around

649
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: hand to hand stuff like that. It's it's quite conceivable

650
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: we can actually pick up a handgun and shoot it

651
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: and not leave your fingerprints. You'd leave some prints on

652
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: the the front strap of the gun from the middles

653
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: of the middle of your fingers, but your actual fingerprints

654
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: from the ends of your fingers that we all know

655
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: that there's a plastic fingerprints, you could conceivably not leave

656
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: them on the GUA that explains I read that in

657
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: several places and I was like, I don't I don't

658
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: quite get it, but I know who will probably have. Yeah,

659
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: it's gonna be Joe. If it's about a gun, it's

660
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: gonna be that I know anything about guns. Really, No,

661
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: not really, but oil will hold fingerprints. Okay, that's okay.

662
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: The way you explain it makes way more sense than

663
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: it was. It was too well oiled. The data fingerprints

664
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: and the other thing. I said that the luger has

665
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: wooden grips on it. And by the way, they were

666
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: checkered grips, which means they weren't smooth, so you could. Yeah.

667
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: So on top of all that, the atle bullet was

668
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: retrieved from the ceiling above him, because which is weird,

669
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: because he was shot through the temple directly above him

670
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: or just somewhere. I have never been able to find

671
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: that out somewhere. I think somewhere above otherwise that would

672
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: mean to have to turn his head es. So I'm

673
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: actually going to do the I'm going to describe a

674
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 1: little bit, and then I'm going to show you guys

675
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: in the studio what I imagine happened if he did

676
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: in fact kill himself. The shell casing from the bullet

677
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: was found under his body. He shot himself in the

678
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: temple through the right temple, which again is significant because

679
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: you may have heard Joe mentioned or Steve mentioned that

680
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: he had severely injured his right hand. Though again, if

681
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: he was drunken on a lot of painkillers, you know,

682
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: you can ignore stuff like that. I so it sounds

683
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: like his head could have been like tilted. I honestly,

684
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,479
Speaker 1: I kind of just mentioned I just I'm just gonna

685
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: do it real quick. I just kind of imagine him

686
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: being so drunk that he's just kind of like, is it?

687
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: Is it? Wait? What you're Okay, what Devon is enacting

688
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: is if you've ever seen a board teenager in junior

689
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: high with their arm on their and their head tilted

690
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: all the way over on the straight arm. Yeah, it's

691
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: basically or like you know, when someone's really drunk and

692
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: they're kind of like slumped over. I'm sorry, I'm getting

693
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: away from the mic. I'm sorry, I'm trying to do it,

694
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: but it's you're like kind of slumped over and you're like,

695
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, if you have a gun and he's like

696
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: really really drunk and like super drugged up and you know,

697
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe sleepy, I don't know. Well, thirty,

698
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: the thirty caliber round is also pretty high velocity, lightweight around,

699
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: so it's easily deflected. So it's not like the bullet

700
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: necessarily had to punch straight on through and then out

701
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: the other side and in the ceiling. It could have

702
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: actually have been deflected inside his skull. Bullet. Yeah, and

703
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: it's especially with those little lightweight bullets, I mean they

704
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: are they are very easily knocked off course. So because

705
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 1: it interesting got straight at the top of his head. Interesting.

706
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: I had not heard that. Actually, the one thing I

707
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: will say is, um, that is kind of weird. As mentioned,

708
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: Reeves was naked and the shell casing was found behind him,

709
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 1: but there was no burn mark on his back as

710
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: you might expect from a hot shell. I'm not so sure.

711
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: I haven't been burned by hot breast myself. I can

712
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: tell you it's it's not that hot that it's going

713
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: to be like a branding iron or anything like that.

714
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: Branding iron is I mean, I think I don't know.

715
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,919
Speaker 1: I would expect you can pay some sort of mark.

716
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: You can pick up an expelled shell casing immediately, and

717
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: it is hot and it is hurt, but you can

718
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: wait till it cools off and you will not always

719
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: be blistered. So that's well, I'm blistering. I'm not. I'm not.

720
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting blistered, but like red. But he was dead,

721
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: like his body was going to be able to react. Yeah.

722
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: I've had like you know, I've had him like land,

723
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: like hot brass, like land right between my collar and

724
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: my neck, you know, and it's unpleasant, but it's never

725
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: left any marks. Okay, fair enough, Steve made a lot

726
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: of not nice noises. All right, how about this one

727
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: hot shots? Apparently you can explain everything that's weird. Um.

728
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: They also found two bullets in the floor. Yeah, yeah,

729
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: those are easily explained. That was probably a target practice.

730
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: Maybe they're easily explained. They were from the same luger.

731
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: As mentioned, everyone was real drunk. They did agree they

732
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: only heard the one gun shot. Again, this assumes they

733
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: told the truth. But I will say that there's no

734
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: evidence to suggest that those happened that night. Yeah, could

735
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: have happened anytime. I mean, granted, you kind of hope

736
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: there aren't just random discharges happening in the house of

737
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: a gun. But like said that she fired those two

738
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: rounds pre obvious to that that you know she, I mean,

739
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: this one was known, as we're going to talk about,

740
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: she was a bit of a hothead, and she had

741
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: she had fired it that way. I do want to

742
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: talk about one quick thing on the murder or this

743
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: this whole theory that we're in, because there are people

744
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: have said that there is no way that George Reeves

745
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 1: could have fired that gun in that position and had

746
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: the shell go behind him, because in the reading it

747
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: always says because those shell casings generally adject to the right,

748
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: and as Joe will probably know, this particular luger ejects

749
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: a shell out of the top instead of the left

750
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: or the right, like you see a lot of handguns

751
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: these days, and so it can kind of go that way.

752
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: But I watched videos of guys shooting that gun, and

753
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: it really depended on the angle that the gun was

754
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: held as to whether the shell ejected forward, backwards, left

755
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: or right. That's why I continue to maintain he was

756
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: just like wantwa he was. It probably was holding on

757
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: like sideways, yeah, and so like the back, so it

758
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: would have expelled also. But we talked about this during

759
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: Kirk Cobain's suicide. I mean, shells are usually flung from

760
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: the gun, you know, at a high rate of speed,

761
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: a lot of energy there, and I could easily bounce

762
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: off a wall or two and then and then like

763
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: behind you. It's not well, I didn't. It landed under

764
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: his body, so I don't know that it would have

765
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: had time to bounce a couple of times in the

766
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: under his body wasn't fast, I mean, depending on how

767
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: fast this body fell over, yeah, it was the body

768
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: pretty fast. Uh yeah, spent showcasing to move faster. They really, yeah,

769
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: they do. Mostly. I just don't really him a problem

770
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: with it being under Actually I have more of a

771
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 1: problem with it being under him. If he was murdered,

772
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: then well I just bring it up. Yes, it couldn't

773
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 1: in the thing of you know, it had to be murder.

774
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: People will say, well, he couldn't have shot himself and

775
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: had the showcasing end up underneath his own body, and

776
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: will Actually, I do believe it's entirely possible. Yeah, he

777
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: totally could have. All right, So if he did get murdered,

778
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about who might have done it. We're gonna

779
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: first of all, I mean, what do we think murder

780
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: or suicide? I'm kind of like a murder myself. I

781
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: like murder too, actually, Steve spa um, So, the first

782
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: theory is that Lenora Lemon killed him, either in a

783
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: drunken rage or like something else, but probably in like

784
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: some sort of drunken something because she was pretty drunk

785
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: and maybe they all all of her buddies downstairs kind

786
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: of covered for well. Yeah, so well let's let's just

787
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: go through this. Yeah, because there's a bunch here, there is,

788
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: so you will remember from getting through the events leading

789
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: up to that. The couple, you know, Leonor and Reeves. Um,

790
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: Lemon and Reeves had had a fight earlier that night,

791
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: maybe at dinner or maybe I guess at the wrestling

792
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: match they may or may not have gone to. I'm

793
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: not sure, but what a great date. Yeah. Well, and

794
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: and Condon was there too, so it's like a whole

795
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: big group apparently. Yeah, apparently the fight might have been

796
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: about the wedding. Reporting does vary, but like we mentioned,

797
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: there was some speculation that Reeves didn't even know they

798
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: were engaged. But there's also some speculation that what happened

799
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: that night is that Reeves just said like, no, I'm

800
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: not marrying you, and yeah, that's a or like move

801
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: out because she had a pretty sweet thing going for her. Actually,

802
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,439
Speaker 1: it's kind of like last week's story, yeah, a little bit.

803
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: Or maybe Lemon was mad because they had fought at midnight.

804
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: Lemon might have also been annoyed because Reeves may or

805
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: may not have been speaking with his ex girlfriend. Again.

806
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: It actually reports totally very either Lemon was crazy or

807
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:48,959
Speaker 1: he actually made you I was talking to her again.

808
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: Lemon was actually a terror as mentioned, Um, she was

809
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: the first woman ever to be thrown out of New

810
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: York the New York Stork Club for fistfight eating. The

811
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: Stork Club is a pretty prestigious club in New York.

812
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: They're still around, right, they are, Yeah, yeah, I know,

813
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: I think they're Basically it was a status symbol. You know,

814
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: anybody who's anybody has a membership to this enough money, yeah, well,

815
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: anybody who's anybody, right. Lemon was also supposedly a bit

816
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 1: of a gold digger. She was married to a man.

817
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: She's been married three times. She had been married I

818
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: think two times, the more yeah, the more recent, the

819
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: more recent one she married the guy they were they

820
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: were actually, yeah, she only stuck around for like eight days,

821
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: but she didn't actually divorce divorce him a couple. She

822
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: didn't divorce him until something like ten years later, five

823
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: years later, five years later when he tried to and

824
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: he found out when he tried to marry someone else

825
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: and then was hit with a pullug me suit or

826
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: something like that to do. Yeah, that's my plan all along.

827
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: There are a number of reasons why it's possible that

828
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: Lemon actually did kill Reeves, as well as some evidence

829
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: to maybe suggest that the guests were lying. Bliss, for

830
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: his part, did recant his story years later, kind of maybe.

831
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: His friend Milicent Trent said that he had told her.

832
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: So this is like a third hand account or something

833
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,479
Speaker 1: like that. There's a lot of third hand here. Yeah,

834
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: that's true that what actually happened on that night was

835
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: that Reeves had yelled at the people, who at about

836
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: like one twenty a m. Had come down, was angry

837
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: and Lemon got angry, and then they both went up

838
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: to the master bedroom to kind of have it out

839
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: the guests the bruising. The guests heard a gunshot, and

840
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: then Lemon came running back downstairs and said, tell them

841
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 1: I was down here, Tell him I was down here.

842
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: And then they waited forty six minutes to call the cops.

843
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: What I don't get is why anybody cover for she.

844
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: She wasn't filthy rich, she didn't have powerful friends, Like

845
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,919
Speaker 1: what did she have to to to coerce them? Well, so,

846
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 1: one thing I guess we could say is that Van

847
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 1: Ronkle and Condon were having an affair, so she knew

848
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: about that, so she could hold that over them. And

849
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: then lord knows why that why Bliss was there even

850
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: so it supposedly pably was just interested in the h access.

851
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: I mean he could have he was trying to sell

852
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: him what your windows weren't open, this would never have happened. Yeah,

853
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: so it's possible that she had dirt on all of

854
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: them or something like that. It's also possible. I don't

855
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: know if you guys know this or not, but you know,

856
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: people have these things called friends, and friends sometimes do

857
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: kind of like weird moral things to cover for each other.

858
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, if I am drinking with friends and what

859
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: and two of them go upstairs and all one of

860
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: them comes back down after a gunshot, I'm probably not

861
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: going to cover for that's because you're a good person.

862
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: You don't live in Hollywood, Listen, I've been accused worse. Yeah,

863
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: but you know, you typically expecting conspiracies like that that

864
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: people seen or later somebody's going to spill the beans.

865
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: Although on the other other hand, I guess some people

866
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: have sort of spilled the beans. Bliss, for example, sort

867
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: of did, and a few other people did kind of

868
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: as I've also, I've also read and I don't know,

869
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: like why there's so many versions of this, there's so

870
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: many versions of this, but I've read cops say that Lemon.

871
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how they got this information

872
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: that Lemon had nobody told somebody else after the fact

873
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: and then the cops. I think that I read that

874
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: it was somebody maybe Condon and Richard Condon made this up.

875
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: But you saw it in the papers, reports of the time,

876
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: contemporary contemporariously in the Los Angeles tribes that these words

877
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: did appear in there. But she said apparently years later

878
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: that no, she didn't actually say that. Yeah, well, she

879
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: would have good reason to not say that. Although this

880
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: doesn't really fit into the she would have good reason

881
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: to not say these words begin with. So the way

882
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: that she tells the story that Condon tells the story

883
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: is that Reeves had come down, yelled, and then went

884
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: back upstairs, and Lemon said to the group, he's probably

885
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: going upstairs to shoot himself. And then a noise was

886
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: heard upstairs, and she said he's opening a drawer to

887
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: get the gun. And then the shot was hurt and

888
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: she said, see there, I told you so, which is

889
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: not a normal reaction, if not, And it also it

890
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: kind of makes you wonder, like how she knew he

891
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: was going to go shoot himself. I actually was thinking

892
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: about that, and I would be really really interested. I

893
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: wish the cops had talked to other people who had

894
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: come over and drank with them, because I could see

895
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: this being a drunken gag that they pulled on people.

896
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: They're in a bed, you know, Hey, Okay, I'm going

897
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: to call upstairs and I'm gonna shoot myself and then

898
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: just fires the gun into the floor where you all

899
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: go anywhere. And so let's say there was those two

900
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: rounds already in the floor. Maybe they had done this

901
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 1: two times before, and so she's got really good at

902
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: the timing, except this time he actually does the deed.

903
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that's a dumb game. Really,

904
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: I don't understand. But maybe you know what. One of

905
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: the funniest once I saw I was that he didn't

906
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: need to kill himself when he was playing Russian Roulette.

907
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: I chose to omit that. But yeah, playing Russian Roulette

908
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:33,439
Speaker 1: with an automatic qualifies for the Instant Darwin Awards. I don't.

909
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I don't either. As to the

910
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: reason why we mentioned briefly that there may have been

911
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: an ex girlfriend involved, and that ex girlfriend may or

912
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: may not have actually been somebody that Reeves was having

913
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 1: an affair with at the time. Okay, well the affair

914
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: officially was over in nineteen fifty eight, but will ignore

915
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: that for a minute. Who was said lady? Said lady

916
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: was this woman by the name of Tony Mannix, who

917
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: was wife of MGM VP Eddie Mannix, who MGM stands for.

918
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: Eddie was what's known as a fixer in the day. Yeah,

919
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: he took care of bimbo eruptions, scandals, that kind of thing.

920
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: He's what we would call like a pr manager. Now wait, wait, Joe,

921
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: is that a real term. What's that? Bimbo eruptions? Yeah,

922
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: that was actually a term from the Clinton administration, because

923
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: I remember he was routinely a key You bring up

924
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: some of the weirdest terminology, so I have to make

925
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: sure you're not making it up on the spot. It's

926
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 1: also rumored that Eddie had ties to the mafia, which

927
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been so unheard of in those days. But

928
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: just see, I guess you see seeing as Yeah, I

929
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: think I think a lot of those guys actually got

930
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: financing from the Mob. I would postulate that it's a

931
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: little possible that Eddie was annoyed with the fair Let's

932
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: just let me get this here. Hear me out my head, Devin,

933
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: It's fine that Eddie maybe was annoyed and so he

934
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: killed Reeves, but we actually know that's not true. Well,

935
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: we're pretty sure, we're pretty sure he didn't do it. Personally,

936
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: he wasn't great, he wasn't that great at health. Well, actually,

937
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: Eddie knew about the affair and he had his own

938
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: younger mistress. Apparently they actually hung out together. They were

939
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: actually liked. Yeah, creep. Tony and Eddie were both a

940
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: fair amount older than Reeves. I think, like twenty years

941
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: Tony well, now he was a lot. Eddie was a

942
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: lot older than Tony. Tony was like eight years older

943
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 1: than Reeves. I'm sorry, I'm talking about the gap between

944
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: Reeves and Tony. Yeah, that was that gap. And then yeah, anyway,

945
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: so I think if if a man ex did kill

946
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: or have Reeves killed, it would have been Tony. And

947
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: she actually apparently did confess to the crime, although it's

948
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: a she said. The person who says that she confessed

949
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 1: it had a dubious relation. As mentioned at best, Tony

950
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 1: also suffered from Alzheimer's disease and senile dementia. So not

951
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: that everything that she said was wrong, but there's a

952
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: lot of plausible deniability here. She was apparently a pretty

953
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: feisty woman in and of herself, And it is possible

954
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: because Reeves did seem to suspect that Tony was behind

955
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: a lot of weird stuff that was happening to him

956
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: right before. Yeah, so his dog disappeared a couple of

957
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: months before he died. And oh, that car accident that

958
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: I mentioned in passing earlier, it turns out that the

959
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: reason that he crashed his car was because somebody had

960
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: totally drained the break fluid out of his car, and

961
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: he openly said that he suspected that it was Tony

962
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: that had done that, Tony who had had somebody doing well,

963
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,479
Speaker 1: she probably she didn't do it herself, I'm sorry, yeah,

964
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: but that she was behind it. Apparently Tony was actually,

965
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: when I've heard, extremely upset when he broke it off

966
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: with her. Yeah, I think she was. Yeah. She she

967
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: apparently had quite the the ability for colorful language. Yeah,

968
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 1: and so she was my kind of girl, I mean,

969
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: minus the crazy bit. This is the late fifties. I mean,

970
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, she said darn and heck quite a bit. Yeah, heck,

971
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: COM's heck comed right to darn. Darn, I'm right to

972
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,439
Speaker 1: heck yeah right, yeah, darn. Some sucks. The other kind

973
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: of thing that people talk about here, and this is

974
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: the last thing we're going to cover real quick, is

975
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: that TV's Lowis Lane was actually a mutual friend of

976
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: Reeves and Tony. You know her name, Her name is

977
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: Phyllis Coates. She said that Tony actually called her hysterically

978
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: at like three o'clock in the morning on June six,

979
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: so way earlyier than anybody would have really known that

980
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: Reeves was dead. But Tony apparently called Phillips hysterical and

981
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 1: said that Reeves had been murdered and was very upset

982
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: about it. So if it was a murder and Tony

983
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: did it, that would, like, I don't know if I

984
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: would explain that, but it's a real way that she

985
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 1: could have gotten that information before it hit the world, right.

986
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 1: But I think the catch there is her just immediately

987
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: saying he was murdered because they the police, everybody at

988
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: the scene just automatically said it was suicide. But a

989
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: lot of other people just never bought the whole suicide

990
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: thing from the get go. Yeah, that's true. And actually,

991
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: you know by the way too, and it's like somebody

992
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 1: in the house or you know, could have called somebody

993
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: actually could have called Tony directly and say, oh my god,

994
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: George has been shot. He's dead. That's exact she would

995
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: immediately think murdered rather than the suicide. Has Apparently a

996
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: lot of his friends said there's no way he committed suicide. Yeah,

997
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: so that, I mean, that's the end of our furious section.

998
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, I find it. I find it hard

999
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: to believe that he committed suicide, just because it seems

1000
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: a bit out of character for everything was going on.

1001
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: It seems a little late in the game to suddenly

1002
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: decide to end it all. But then there's weird stuff

1003
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,959
Speaker 1: like if he was murdered and it was leonor there's

1004
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: the whole thing. She came back to the house with

1005
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: two three days after it, and rifled through the place

1006
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: and stole several thousand dollars in cash years checks, and

1007
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: then beat feet to New York, never to come back.

1008
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: She didn't even actually go to raise George fer No,

1009
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: she didn't. And she actually she turned into kind of

1010
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: a tragedy case of herself because she turned into a

1011
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: complete total alcoholic, turned into you. That's good point. She

1012
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: became a full blown alcoholic and died in her room

1013
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to anybody, and her body wasn't found for three

1014
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: days or something like something like that. So it's just like,

1015
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: oh wow, that's I mean, she just she fall so

1016
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: far down the well. It's tough. I mean, I don't

1017
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: it's it's just hard. I don't really like any of

1018
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: the theories. I don't believe any of the theories really,

1019
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: but I don't also necessarily think he killed himself. He may,

1020
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm willing to go the totally accidentally was like leaning

1021
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: on his gun and was like, Ohaps killed himself. But

1022
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: that's about as close as I'll go to the suicide theory.

1023
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: But I don't know. It's just I think there's just

1024
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: a lot of weird wrapped up in this case. I'm unsatisfied.

1025
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: I understand where people still wondering. Of course, you know,

1026
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: I mean it could have been an accident to I mean,

1027
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: maybe they were arguing she had the gun and she

1028
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: had no didn't attend to kill him. But you know, lukers,

1029
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: from what I hear, have touched the triggers um I

1030
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: don't know one of myself, but it might be that

1031
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: she was just brandishing the gun all of a sudden

1032
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: it goes off in cobang, It's like, whoopsie. That's well,

1033
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: that would be that theory of you know. Then she

1034
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: came running downstairs and was like, yeah, when I was

1035
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: down here, yeah, without a little accident, yeah yeah, yeah,

1036
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: and so and and that really wouldn't be that suspicious

1037
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: of a thing now, because if you accidentally killed somebody,

1038
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: you're still kind of liable for for that your behavior,

1039
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: even though they're not going to pin murder on you.

1040
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: Yeah they you know, but they'll still get you for manslaughter.

1041
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: Pre Probably that's true. Steve Joe, what do you guys think?

1042
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I'm still I'm torn. Yeah,

1043
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: me too. Yeah. The no, I mean, the no gunshot

1044
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: residue on the scalp is that's pretty telling. I mean,

1045
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine anybody shooting themselves in the head

1046
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: and not leaving, not not getting it close enough to

1047
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: get some gunpowder residue. I still I still question if

1048
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 1: they actually tested for it. Well, yeah, that's the whole

1049
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: question is I don't know if they did. I had

1050
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: heard one place that they didn't actually test for it,

1051
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: which is amazing when I didn't think though that they

1052
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: would at least have noticed powder birds, I mean gunpowder

1053
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: residue you're gonna get from a distance, you know, and

1054
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: any pretty much any distance, and you're like five ft,

1055
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna get that. But anybody that shoots

1056
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: himself in the head, you're gonna probably touched the gun

1057
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: to your head. Yeah, you're probably, because otherwise you're not

1058
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: really sure. Unless you're standing in from a mirror, you're

1059
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: not really sure what direction that guns pointing. You don't

1060
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: really know if you're going to kill yourself and blow

1061
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: your brains out or if you're just gonna blow your

1062
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: face off and not kill yourself. To be really depressing head.

1063
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: And it does happen. And that's the hard part is

1064
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: that there's not that I want to see gory images,

1065
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: but there are no photos of his body pre and

1066
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: you know from the like the autopsy or anything on

1067
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: the crime scene, the police didn't take photos that I know.

1068
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 1: The best thing I saw was, you know, I think

1069
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: it was a corner Corners Corners sketch, which is not

1070
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: worth a whole hell of a lot. Yeah. The only

1071
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: the only point of that's just to show where the

1072
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: bullet one and the want of the skull. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

1073
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I don't have a good answer, sorry, guys.

1074
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: Oh well yeah, that's a tough one. Um, you got

1075
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: to flip a coin here, I'm going to murder. Okay. Cool.

1076
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: So if you want to see that um layout of

1077
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: Reeves's house or see some other links to some of

1078
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: the research that we did, you can find that as

1079
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 1: well as merch and a list of all the other

1080
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: episodes we've done, as well as download episodes on our website.

1081
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,919
Speaker 1: That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can

1082
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: find us on social media to interact with us. We've

1083
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 1: got Twitter, we've got a subreddit, we've got a Facebook page,

1084
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: and we've got a Facebook group. Yeah. Every well, all

1085
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: of it's awesome. So you can find us on all

1086
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: of those forms of media. And if you have feedback

1087
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 1: you'd like to suggest something like Clarissa did or just

1088
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: want to talk to us, you can detact. You can

1089
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: do that on the email and that your address email Chicken,

1090
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,439
Speaker 1: the email strong Bad, the email a dress is Thinking

1091
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. All of that having

1092
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 1: been said, I think we're going to look it's a bird,

1093
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: fly on out of here and away. Dang, and I

1094
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: thought you guys were going to just deal with the

1095
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: same thing. It's a plan. It's Superman, that was super

1096
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: See you next week.