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Speaker 1: So much of your pain in life has come from

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Speaker 1: thinking you needed to change who you are to get

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Speaker 1: what you want, when really you need to be more you.

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Speaker 1: You need to spend the time figuring out who you are,

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Speaker 1: what makes you tick, what your offerings are, and turn

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Speaker 1: the light up on those things. Be more of those things.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Emily and Badi here you are listening to Hurdle,

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Speaker 2: a wellness focused podcast. Reconnect with everyone from your favorite

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Speaker 2: athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about their highest hies,

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Speaker 2: toughest moments, and everything in between. We all go through

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Speaker 2: hurdles in life, and my goal through these discussions is

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Speaker 2: to empower you to better navigate your and move with

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Speaker 2: intention so that you can stride towards your own big

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Speaker 2: potential and of course have some fun along the way.

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Speaker 3: What a week it.

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Speaker 2: Was Unhurdle to kick things off this year with our

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Speaker 2: annual Turning the Page series. Now we are getting back

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Speaker 2: into the regular swing of things today with Lauren Fleshman.

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Speaker 2: She's one of the most decorated American distance runners of

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Speaker 2: all time, an author of the book Good for a Girl,

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Speaker 2: which comes out tomorrow January tenth. Now, of course I'll

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Speaker 2: make sure to link it in the show notes. I

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Speaker 2: really really, really appreciate Lauren's way with words in our

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Speaker 2: discussion today, from sharing her experience with depression to talking

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Speaker 2: about the height of her running career, the descriptions they

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Speaker 2: instantly bring you back with her to these life moments

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Speaker 2: in such a really special way. She talks with me

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Speaker 2: about her experience as a sponsored athlete and also how

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Speaker 2: it felt to write her book during such an iceol

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Speaker 2: time for the world in a pandemic, plus her hopes

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Speaker 2: for women in sport in the future. A little insight

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Speaker 2: into my process here now. I usually listen to an

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Speaker 2: episode about three times before it goes live, and to

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Speaker 2: be candid, I have already listened to parts of this

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Speaker 2: episode multiple times small clips from Lauren because honestly, it

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Speaker 2: really just I find her insights truly thought provoking.

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Speaker 3: And genuinely beautiful. So I know you're going to love

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Speaker 3: this one.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over on social

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Speaker 2: it is at Hurdle Podcast. I myself am over at

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Speaker 2: Emily a Body and if you have yet to do so,

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Speaker 2: the beginning of a new year is the perfect time

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Speaker 2: to add some.

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Speaker 3: More motivation to your inbox.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you are subscribed to the weekly Hurdle newsletter

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Speaker 2: by cooking on over to the show notes. By doing that,

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Speaker 2: you will get me in your inbox every single Friday,

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Speaker 2: bring you so much of the same motivation inspiration. Gear

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Speaker 2: picks things that you love about the show directly into

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Speaker 2: your inbox. Last, but not least, I'm putting a call

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Speaker 2: out I would love your listener questions for an upcoming

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Speaker 2: listener questions episode. So whatever you got, it can be

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Speaker 2: about sport, it can be about life, health, work, career, whatever.

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Speaker 3: The link to leave me.

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Speaker 2: One is in the show notes. And with that, let's

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Speaker 2: get to it. Let's get to Hurdling. Today, I am

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Speaker 2: sitting down with Lauren Fleshman. She is a runner, she's

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Speaker 2: a co founder of Picky Bars, and she is the

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Speaker 2: author of the upcoming title Good for a Girl, A

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Speaker 2: Woman Running in a Man's World.

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Speaker 3: How are you doing today, Lauren.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing well. I've been looking forward to this.

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Speaker 3: I have been looking forward to it too. I've been looking.

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Speaker 2: Forward to it for a multitude of reasons which we

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Speaker 2: will get into. But first and foremost, I've got to

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Speaker 2: ask you. This episode coming out the week of your

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Speaker 2: book release. How does that feel?

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Speaker 1: It feels so good. The process of writing this books

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Speaker 1: about three years in the making as far as book

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Speaker 1: proposal to publication, but really like a lifetime in the

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Speaker 1: making before that. But the last three years have been

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Speaker 1: pretty tough for just about everybody. And adding a book

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Speaker 1: on top of that, my first long form so that's

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Speaker 1: a challenge in itself, was very tough. So I feel

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Speaker 1: like a great sense of accomplishment on the horizon and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to really like releasing all the stress

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Speaker 1: and anxiety of the build up and just being out

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Speaker 1: there in the world with the book done.

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Speaker 3: With the book done.

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Speaker 2: The last couple of years, as you put it, definitely

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Speaker 2: a challenging time for so many and I know for you,

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Speaker 2: as you've open up a little bit on social media, difficult,

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Speaker 2: not just because you're putting pen to paper, but also

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Speaker 2: you were dealing with a fair amount of stuff emotionally.

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Speaker 2: Talk to us about what the last few years have

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Speaker 2: been like for you personally.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've always been a person with highs and lows.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it felt like above average heighs and lows compared

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Speaker 1: to my friends, but it also felt like just a

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Speaker 1: part of my sensitive nature. So I didn't see the

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Speaker 1: signs at first that I was entering into a real

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Speaker 1: mental health crisis in the first year of the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard to tease out what actually caused it,

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Speaker 1: but it could have just been that the state of

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Speaker 1: that sensitivity that I always have to the people around me,

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Speaker 1: the feelings around me, the state of the world around me,

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Speaker 1: it just became too much and I found that I

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Speaker 1: was in a state of overwhelm and like people say

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Speaker 1: fight or flight, but there's also freeze, and I tend

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Speaker 1: to free So I started to kind of withdraw and

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Speaker 1: gradually got to the point where I couldn't I couldn't write,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't really engage with my kids, and got to

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Speaker 1: the very scary place of having the thought that my

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Speaker 1: feeling like there was a point to being in this world.

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Speaker 1: And luckily, due to a lot of advocacy work by

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Speaker 1: me that was like, Oh, this is actually a this

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Speaker 1: is a thing, this may not be real, this is

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Speaker 1: a thing that people experience related to depression and I

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Speaker 1: should just all I had the energy for was to

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Speaker 1: just tell somebody. So I told Jesse that I was

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Speaker 1: having those thoughts, and then that was the important first

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Speaker 1: step to figuring out how to get well again. So

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Speaker 1: I was managing that for about a year, and then

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of resistance to taking medication at first,

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Speaker 1: just due to stigma and also kind of my athletic

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Speaker 1: upbringing of like being anti substance in general and strapping up,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting things done on your own volition and

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Speaker 1: your own power. And I have all the tools inside me,

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Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff that I like to lean

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Speaker 1: into that in most cases, but it did become an

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Speaker 1: obstacle to getting the help that I needed for a while.

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Speaker 1: And then once I got over that, I really started

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Speaker 1: to see improvement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, wow.

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Speaker 1: And then I got to kind of write the book

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Speaker 1: through all that, which was like WHOA, don't recommend it,

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Speaker 1: But in some ways I'm curious, Like it's impossible to

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Speaker 1: be objective about your own work, But I wonder how

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Speaker 1: the book is seasoned by that depression in its final product.

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Speaker 1: And but for me, it really just became like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the book's not going to be perfect. It won't be

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Speaker 1: the same book I would will have written in a

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Speaker 1: very I don't know, normal state of mind. I guess

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Speaker 1: typical state of mind. But I do feel really proud

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Speaker 1: of the way it turned out, and I feel a

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Speaker 1: huge sense of accomplishment that I made it through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, wow.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you first and foremost for for sharing that.

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Speaker 2: I read your tweet back in October and you shared

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Speaker 2: it on your Instagram as well, talking about, you know,

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Speaker 2: going through this difficult time and during that time as well,

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Speaker 2: reading the book The Tea Party in the Woods to

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Speaker 2: your child and realizing that you didn't remember what happened

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Speaker 2: in the book, despite the fact that you had been

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Speaker 2: reading it so often during that difficult moment, and that

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Speaker 2: so I hate to use the word perfectly depicts, but

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Speaker 2: as someone who also has gone through her own journey

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Speaker 2: of navigating depression, that blacking out of sorts of these

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Speaker 2: moments is so relatable. And it was just so really

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Speaker 2: beautiful to see how others saw your words and really

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Speaker 2: latched on and were excited at the opportunity to say

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Speaker 2: I'm not alone in this and I felt that way too,

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Speaker 2: And what a really, really great thing. So I guess

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Speaker 2: what I'm, you know, kind of circling around here. To

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Speaker 2: say to you is thank you for sharing that and

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Speaker 2: knowing that you have the opportunity now to help others

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Speaker 2: through your experience. Would you say it took some time

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Speaker 2: for you to get to a place where you knew

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Speaker 2: that you, Lauren would be good talking about what you'd

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Speaker 2: been through.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, definitely. I had. I have this overarching general

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Speaker 1: confidence that our lives, not just me, but our lives

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Speaker 1: are a story unfolding, and that running in sports helped

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Speaker 1: me tap into that as a survival mechanism during the

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Speaker 1: hardest times, like, oh, this is not the end, this

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Speaker 1: is just a moment in a story. And the most

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Speaker 1: interesting stories have ups and downs, right, you don't want

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Speaker 1: no one wants to read a story and where nothing

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Speaker 1: interesting happens, no challenges occur. So I think that there

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Speaker 1: were there was a part of me that always remembered, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that always remembered basically that this was just going to

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Speaker 1: be a chapter and a larger thing of my life.

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Speaker 1: And what I was thinking when you were talking about

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Speaker 1: that tweet. One of the gifts that writers can give

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Speaker 1: the world is finding the right like a very tangible

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Speaker 1: moment in time that brings to life like a nebulous,

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Speaker 1: emotion filled concept like depression or joy or love or anything.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: It's like if you can describe the tea party in

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Speaker 1: the woods, or the feel of a person's touch, or

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Speaker 1: the way the light fell like it's you take abstract

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Speaker 1: things and you pull them into a scene and it

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Speaker 1: helps people recognize things that they've had trouble putting words to.

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Speaker 1: And writers do that for me all the time. That's

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Speaker 1: part of what drew me to want to be a writer.

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Speaker 1: It was like, Wow, what a powerful thing to help

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Speaker 1: do that, and to be able to give that gift

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Speaker 1: to other people since I receive it from other people

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Speaker 1: so often. And I loved it too. I loved seeing

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Speaker 1: the responses where people were like, oh, yes, that is

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Speaker 1: what it feels like. It is that blacking out of

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Speaker 1: like your numb You're just going through life. And one

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Speaker 1: of the ways you know you're better is when something

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Speaker 1: you've done a thousand times has a different feeling all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden. And I'll never forget when I connected

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Speaker 1: with my daughter's laugh for the first time in months,

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Speaker 1: probably in like ten months. She was on this log

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Speaker 1: out into the creek and I was out on a hike,

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Speaker 1: just going through the motions because you know, you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to take your kids outside. There was no actual genuine

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Speaker 1: joy for me in doing it, just like there hadn't

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Speaker 1: been in many months. But then she came out onto

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Speaker 1: this log and she turned around and faced me, and

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Speaker 1: I had been on my medication for a few months

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Speaker 1: at that point, and she was just beaming in nature,

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Speaker 1: and I felt it in my own sternum, that transfer

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Speaker 1: of her joy into my body, and it was like wow,

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Speaker 1: water in the desert, like I really have been far

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Speaker 1: gone for a while. It's just it's so sad. It's

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Speaker 1: such a difficult thing. Depression and so common.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so common.

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Speaker 2: Your word again that you used before, freeze also so

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Speaker 2: accurately sums it up. I'll never forget sitting in a

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Speaker 2: small doctor's office over in Boorham Hill and Brooklyn, and

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Speaker 2: when I sat down with the nurse practitioner who ultimately

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Speaker 2: finally prescribed me medication after.

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Speaker 3: Many hurdles no pun intended to get to it.

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Speaker 2: She looked at me and she said that some of

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Speaker 2: the things that have brought you joy in the past

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Speaker 2: may not feel the same. And it wasn't until she

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Speaker 2: said that to me that I realized, as someone else

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Speaker 2: who really does enjoy running, that my running for so

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Speaker 2: many months had just felt like literally something that I did,

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Speaker 2: because that's how I identified running is something that I do. Right,

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Speaker 2: But when she said that to me, and I thought

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Speaker 2: about the act and the activity that I had been

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Speaker 2: going through the motions of doing day in and day

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Speaker 2: out for months during that struggle, it was like, do

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Speaker 2: I even enjoy.

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Speaker 3: This right now?

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Speaker 2: Is this even making my inside stingle and giving me

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Speaker 2: the same satisfaction that it did when I felt like

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Speaker 2: I could truly feel each stride and the effort that

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Speaker 2: output that you know, every single day in and day

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Speaker 2: out gusto that I once had.

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Speaker 3: And the answer was no.

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Speaker 2: So to like that when you zoom out and you

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Speaker 2: realize like, holy wow, I at like this thing like

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Speaker 2: your children. You love your children, and to go through

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Speaker 2: that time when you were like, am I even making

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Speaker 2: them happy?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: My god?

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Speaker 3: Matter at my heart?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, and the running really resonates too. And when

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Speaker 1: you were saying that story about realizing that the running

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Speaker 1: wasn't embodied, it wasn't connecting, it wasn't lighting you up

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Speaker 1: like running is a place that can bring us back

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Speaker 1: to ourselves. And if running isn't bringing you back to

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Speaker 1: yourself and it's just a monotonous motion for months on end,

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Speaker 1: that is a big warning sign. But I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about the gift of creating a practice, because if you

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Speaker 1: have a practice in your life that you do regularly

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Speaker 1: that does bring you joy, then you have something like

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Speaker 1: even when there's a time where you're down or you're disconnected,

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Speaker 1: you can remain in the practice, like the practice carries

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Speaker 1: you through a certain amount of time. And if you

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Speaker 1: don't pop out of it, because we do have natural

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Speaker 1: highs and lows in life, if you don't pop out

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Speaker 1: of it as just a standard low, it can be

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Speaker 1: your canary in the coal mine of like, hey, this

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Speaker 1: is a thing that has always consistently brought me joy,

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Speaker 1: and it's been longer than a few weeks or a

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Speaker 1: month or a couple months that hasn't been doing that,

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Speaker 1: there's probably something holistically off in me. And then there's

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Speaker 1: just the hurdle of do I feel safe in community

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Speaker 1: and in culture asking for help and feel safe as

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Speaker 1: a person is my identity around solving my own problems?

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Speaker 1: Hyper individualism or am I comfortable being in community and

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Speaker 1: asking for help. And it was a disability activist on

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Speaker 1: Twitter that made a huge difference for me during that

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Speaker 1: depression as well. Where she was talking I don't remember

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Speaker 1: her name right now, but she was talking about how

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Speaker 1: in our culture we value doing things by yourself so

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Speaker 1: much and we teach you I've used the language on

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Speaker 1: my kids like, oh, you can tie your shoes all

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Speaker 1: by yourself, you can do this, you can solve that

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Speaker 1: lego all by yourself. Right, And she said, like that

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Speaker 1: is depicted as the definition of strength and accomplishment, and

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Speaker 1: my entire life strength looks different. Strength to me is

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Speaker 1: being able to rely on people, being able to ask

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Speaker 1: for help and rely on people, and that that is

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Speaker 1: just going to be my daily reality. And the fact

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Speaker 1: is that's able bodied people's daily reality too. But we

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Speaker 1: can we can like fool ourselves into thinking it shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be or create this toxic culture that it shouldn't be,

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Speaker 1: and it really harms us too. So we have a

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Speaker 1: lot we can learn from the disability community in that way,

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Speaker 1: or at least I have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that line. Strength for me is

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Speaker 2: being able to ask others for help. I also would

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Speaker 2: be remiss if I didn't say that. It is so

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Speaker 2: clear that you have been writing for quite some time now,

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Speaker 2: beyond just obviously the crafting of this book, just the

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Speaker 2: way that you speak is truly beautiful. So I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to make sure that I acknowledge that. But for you,

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Speaker 2: this this concept of strength being able to rely on people.

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Speaker 2: Do you recall maybe the first time that you truly

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Speaker 2: understood those words, that you truly understood that there was

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Speaker 2: benefit in reaching out to others to move forward and

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Speaker 2: get to perhaps where you wanted to be.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it took me way longer than I would have

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Speaker 1: liked it too. And if you read my book, you

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Speaker 1: get to see you read two stories. You read my

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Speaker 1: personal sports story, and then you also, through that story

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Speaker 1: see the greater, like a greater narrative of female bodied

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Speaker 1: people in the sports system built around a male body.

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Speaker 1: But there's this moment when I have my first big crash.

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, engaged in disordered eating. I lost

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Speaker 1: too much weight. I ended up breaking a bone in

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Speaker 1: my foot, and it shattered my idea of hyper individualism

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Speaker 1: where I felt deeply alone. I felt like I had

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Speaker 1: banked all my happiness and in accomplishment and really believed

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Speaker 1: that bad things only happen to people that screwed up,

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Speaker 1: that you created your own bad luck, and that's just

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Speaker 1: such a toxic way to think as well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I love the idea of manifesting. That's great, but also

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Speaker 1: you don't. You're not responsible for all the good things

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Speaker 1: or all the bad things that happened to you, and

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Speaker 1: to think otherwise it's really harmful. I think you have

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Speaker 1: to leave room for bad luck, and you also have

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Speaker 1: to leave room for not understanding the larger story of

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Speaker 1: what's happening to you at any given time. But all

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Speaker 1: that came in a very humbling moment of being a

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Speaker 1: favorite to make the Olympic team right out of college

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Speaker 1: and then finding myself with the worst timing, broken foot

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Speaker 1: and kind of all my belief systems crumbling around me

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Speaker 1: right in the lead up to that big moment, and

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Speaker 1: struggling with maybe I need to find room for love

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Speaker 1: in my life, for friends in my life, maybe this

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Speaker 1: romanticized Rocky movie idea of like going out into the

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Speaker 1: woods and eating egg shakes and like seeing nobody and

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Speaker 1: just like you know, I had the tigering for however

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Speaker 1: many months and coming out and winning is not actually

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Speaker 1: holistically healthy or the best way to succeed. But maybe

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Speaker 1: we need more than checking all the right boxes and

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Speaker 1: doing all the right training and sleeping all the right hours.

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Speaker 1: And of course, now looking back, that seems silly I

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Speaker 1: ever thought that way, because I'm so much more aware

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Speaker 1: of how humans are social beings and we're wired for

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Speaker 1: connection and all the things that like Brene Brown talks

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Speaker 1: about constantly on her podcast, that I have now accepted

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Speaker 1: as like fully real and true and have certainly resonated

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Speaker 1: as I've become a parent and a community member and

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Speaker 1: all those things. But yeah, I was I took learning

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Speaker 1: that the tough way. So I'd say, about twenty one

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Speaker 1: years old, sitting on the side of a swimming pool, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: unable to get in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean at that time you had won

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Speaker 2: five and see championships at Stanford, prepping for this huge

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Speaker 2: moment and as you said, this bone breaking in your foot.

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Speaker 2: How do you pick yourself up after a hurdle like that?

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Speaker 1: Oh well, A lot of a mixture of figuring out

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Speaker 1: where I had gone wrong and then also not figuring

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Speaker 1: it all out. So I guess how did I pick

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Speaker 1: myself up. I think giving myself a break healing, but

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Speaker 1: I just I guess it's funny how thinking about hurdles

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Speaker 1: and picking yourself back up. You can pick yourself back

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Speaker 1: up and keep moving forward, but if you haven't actually

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Speaker 1: learned the lesson you need to learn, you're going to

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Speaker 1: hit the same hurdle over and over again until you do.

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Speaker 1: And that's really what happened to me. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: picking yourself up and keeping going is step one. Picking

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Speaker 1: yourself up and having the wisdom and tools to not

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Speaker 1: hit the same hurdle again is like another level. But

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Speaker 1: at first it was just drive, medical help and coaches

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Speaker 1: and a few people in my life that believed in

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Speaker 1: me that got me to run into the next hurdle.

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Speaker 3: What was the hurdle that kept tripping you up?

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Speaker 1: So the hurdle that kept tripping me up was fundamentally

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Speaker 1: thinking my body was wrong, that deep down I didn't

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Speaker 1: believe that the way I was built, the way I

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Speaker 1: was in the world, was enough, and that in order

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Speaker 1: to succeed, to achieve the definition of success someone else

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Speaker 1: created in my sport, that I needed to change myself

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Speaker 1: to match the people who were doing that at the

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Speaker 1: highest level. And so it was really like a losing

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Speaker 1: myself over and over again, and so much of running

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Speaker 1: for me has been I fell in love with it

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Speaker 1: because it helped me find myself. It helped me be

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Speaker 1: like embodied in a way nothing else did. I was

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Speaker 1: using my body to travel across space and see things,

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Speaker 1: experience the world, have relationships like it was. It made

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Speaker 1: me feel incredibly powerful to be able to do that.

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Speaker 1: And then being able to race and like execute a

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Speaker 1: plan and go over hill and dale or around a

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Speaker 1: check whatever those things were, they were so amazing. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: they like, once you kind of are in a system

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Speaker 1: that tells you what winning looks like, what success looks like,

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Speaker 1: those things start to those forces start to pull you

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Speaker 1: away from yourself, and then there's a wrestling match. And

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Speaker 1: this isn't just in sports, obviously, this is in any

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Speaker 1: kind of career. Really, Like, you have a gift, you

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Speaker 1: find the place to apply it, and now you're in

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Speaker 1: this world that has its own forces that's pulling on you.

399
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Speaker 1: And what are you going to do if there's going

400
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Speaker 1: to be times where it succeeds at pulling you away

401
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: from yourself and then eventually you face some sort of

402
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: obstacle or pain as a result of letting yourself be

403
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: lost to that force, and then you kind of keel

404
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: by pulling it back towards yourself. No, this is mine.

405
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Speaker 1: How do I want to do it? How am I

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Speaker 1: going to do this differently?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: How do I stay connected to me through this? And

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Speaker 1: the book is this wrestling match over and over again

410
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: of doing that, And it was. There were several forces

411
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: doing it, but the one that I focus on in

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Speaker 1: the book the most has to do with women's bodies

413
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Speaker 1: and how we're taught that our bodies are wrong, That

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Speaker 1: we're taught that there is a right way for it

415
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Speaker 1: to look, and that it's culturally expected that we should

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Speaker 1: be resisting the body we have at all times through nutrition,

417
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 1: through exercise, you know, exercises punishment and food is reward,

418
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: and all these sick things we come up with, and

419
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: all the energy we spend in the mirror looking at

420
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Speaker 1: our beautiful selves and picking ourselves apart, and what the

421
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: amount of space occupied in the pie chart of our

422
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Speaker 1: mind with what we look like or how we're seen,

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Speaker 1: instead of just using all of that power to emit

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Speaker 1: our what only we can offer into the world. Right,

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Speaker 1: I think of it as like I feel, I think

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Speaker 1: of body self consciousness and body shame as like a

427
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,479
Speaker 1: muffler on our incredible power of the sound we can

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00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: put into the world. And so that doing the work

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Speaker 1: of removing that muffle a disabling that muffler is like

430
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: incredibly noble work, not just for yourself and your joy

431
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: and things like that, but for our collective contribution to society.

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Speaker 1: When you have half of society fed messages that stick

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Speaker 1: a muffler on them, like all of us are losing men,

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Speaker 1: women on binary people, We're all losing from that, right,

435
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Speaker 1: So I just try to tell that story through running,

436
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Speaker 1: But it applies, obviously.

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Speaker 3: It applies.

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Speaker 2: It brings me to that thought that we are the

439
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: person that we hear the most during any given day, right,

440
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Speaker 2: Like the thoughts that we have when we speak to ourselves,

441
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: we can, you know, do the best that we can

442
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 2: to consciously choose good thoughts. But when those aren't the

443
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: thoughts that are the most prominent, we can then try

444
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 2: our best to respond to them in a way that

445
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 2: you know serves us. Right, and again, as we spoke

446
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: about both of our experiences navigating depression, there are times

447
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: in life where maybe that response feels easier than others,

448
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 2: or even just simply capable. You are capable to respond

449
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 2: in a certain way, whereas you may not be at

450
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: another at another time, and for us to move forward

451
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: and recognize that, yes, this is a part of the journey,

452
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 2: and that we get to, as you so greatly put it,

453
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: get rid of that muffler.

454
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 3: There's a lot of power in that.

455
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's not like it's going to be a

456
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: removal of negative thoughts, like you said, It's really like

457
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: there's a race that I think about that I write

458
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: about in the book where I have this season where

459
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: I have all these negative thoughts about myself as a racer,

460
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: about my body, about my competitiveness, whether or not I

461
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: belong in these races, and that voice gets stronger and

462
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: stronger and stronger through the course of the season to

463
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: where I drop out of races or I don't enter

464
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: them at all. The anxiety becomes crippling, and what used

465
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: to be seen as an opportunity, which was a race,

466
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: an opportunity to express myself, became this like feeling like

467
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: a cow being led to slaughter, like there was bad

468
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: things waiting on the other side of this only opportunities

469
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: to fail to disappoint myself, to disappoint other people. And

470
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: most of my shame came from having those thoughts at all.

471
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: I thought that a professional athlete wouldn't have these thoughts.

472
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: That just further proves that I'm not built for this,

473
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: that I'm not meant to do this, that I don't

474
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: have what it takes. When what I end up learning

475
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: is that it's it's actually like everyone has those thoughts.

476
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: You can never eliminate the thoughts. What you can change

477
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: is how you relate to those thoughts, Like what you

478
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: were saying earlier, You know, you can change what tools

479
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: you have to receive them, how long you let them

480
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: stay rent free in your brain, how the tools you

481
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: learn to like open a window and let them out.

482
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: Like however it works for you, But if you're still

483
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,239
Speaker 1: stuck on I shouldn't even be thinking this, You're going

484
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: to go to a much darker place. And that was

485
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: the same theme that came up with depression for me,

486
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 1: was shame about even being depressed, Shame about letting myself

487
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: get to that place somehow, which is not productive to

488
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: helping you move through it.

489
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, certainly not pretty active to helping you move

490
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: through it. And that word that we hate to reference

491
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: so often, that word should right if you're just busy

492
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: shouting on yourself then then that you know that doesn't

493
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: do anybody any favors.

494
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 3: I'd love it if we could.

495
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 2: We've like had such a great conversation already and we're

496
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 2: only twenty four minutes in, but I'm just to give

497
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 2: the listeners a little bit more context into I know

498
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: we greased them with the beauty that is the multi

499
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: hyphen it of you being the co founder of Picky

500
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 2: Bars and an author and an athlete. But before we

501
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 2: get into the chapters kind of for us now, why

502
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: don't you talk to me a little bit about the

503
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: let's call it like the prime of your career, right

504
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: as an athlete, because we're still in the prime of

505
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: our career, we're just in a different phase. So as

506
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: an athlete, you know, competing at World two thousand and three,

507
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: two thousand and five, twenty eleven, you know the five k,

508
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: you're just such a strong athlete, talk to me about

509
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: where your head was at at that time. Did you

510
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 2: think that this was going to be something that you

511
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: kind of like ran until you couldn't do it anymore.

512
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really believed. I had this belief deep down

513
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: that I could be, if not the best in the world,

514
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: one of the best in the world. And I wanted that.

515
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: I wanted to crack at it. I wanted to have

516
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: a chance to be on the stages, to take a

517
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: shot at that. I didn't need it, you know, to like,

518
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: I didn't need to be the best in the world

519
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: win a gold medal for my career to have been

520
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: worth it. But I just loved the idea of competing

521
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 1: at that level, of working hard enough and getting enough

522
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: lucky breaks to do it. So, but the prime of

523
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: my career, how others might view it is different from

524
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: how I would view it, maybe like two thousand and three,

525
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, throughout my end my college career,

526
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: which was a lovely time of life. But the couple

527
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: of years after that, I was making world teams and

528
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: I was running really fast, but I was I wasn't

529
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: able to enjoy the highs. I wasn't able to enjoy

530
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: those moments because I was never satisfied. Always felt like

531
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: there was more. I always needed more, and I did.

532
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: I wasn't at the top of the world yet, and

533
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: So what I mistakenly thought at that time of my

534
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: life was that you'll never get to the top if

535
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: you let yourself be satisfied. You have to constantly be unsatisfied.

536
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: You have to constantly be grabbing for more. I never,

537
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: at that stage of my life would have sat there

538
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: and reveled in my first sub fifteen minute five k.

539
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: It would have just served as a quick evidence point

540
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: that this higher goal could be achieved. But the problem is,

541
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: you'll just always raise the bar. You will always raise

542
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: the bar for yourself, and you will never feel satisfied.

543
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: And what is the point if you don't If you

544
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: don't know how to feel satisfied along the way, you

545
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: will not feel satisfied when you get to the goal

546
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: gold either. You see it all the time when you

547
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: watch the Olympics. There's athletes who win a gold medal

548
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: and you see them on the stand and they look numb,

549
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: and I know that face. I've never won a gold medal,

550
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: but I know I've been on the top of other podiums,

551
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: and I know that face. That is a face that

552
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,239
Speaker 1: has made that goal so important to them that they

553
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: have blown through all the other things in life to

554
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: get there and I don't know how to connect to joy.

555
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: They don't know how to connect to satisfaction and gratitude

556
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: because I haven't practiced it. So later in my career,

557
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: like twenty ten, eleven, and twelve, only one of those

558
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: years I made a World team, but I knew how

559
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: to feel joy, and I knew that I had debunked

560
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: the myth that feeling satisfied before getting to my quote

561
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: final destination was somehow going to make it less likely

562
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: I reached that destination, And so I was even able

563
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: to enjoy races where I ran far off my personal best,

564
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: but they had they were the best I'd done that season,

565
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: or they are best I'd done since coming back from

566
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: an injury, and that joy fed on itself, and I

567
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: felt like I was practicing joy so that when I did,

568
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: if I did get lucky enough to have a big moment,

569
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: I certainly would have been able to enjoy it. And

570
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: if you can't enjoy it, what is the point? Like, honestly,

571
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: what is the point, Especially in something like sport. You're

572
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: going to retire at forty. If you're lucky, you'll get

573
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: to be in it that long. Between thirty and forty,

574
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: you're going to have to start your life over in

575
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: some other career and within five or six years it'll

576
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: all be a distant memory. No one will remember who

577
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: you are. So what are you going to do? Sit

578
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: there and stare at your metal collection like it's probably

579
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: gonna bring you more sorrow than joy.

580
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 3: M hm.

581
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: And for someone who's listening to this and you know,

582
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: is nodding their head and thinking, well, that all sounds great,

583
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: but I can't get there.

584
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: How do they get to joy?

585
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: How does one get to the place where they can

586
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: feel the joy and celebrate their own actions?

587
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: That's a good question. So I might mess the specifics

588
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: of this up a little bit. But because I haven't

589
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: taught her a wilder retreat in a while, I teach

590
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: these running and writing retreats in the outdoors. But Jennifer

591
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: Louden is my writing coach, and she has this practice

592
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: that she calls conditions of satisfaction, and it's an entire

593
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: practice based around this exact thing, and she is it.

594
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: Writing is her medium, right because we're all chronically writers

595
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: are chronically unsatisfied with their writing, and it's a lot

596
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: like sport. You're working towards this very distant goal that

597
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: very few people actually accomplish of just having a book

598
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: published and promoted in the media and all that stuff.

599
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: But a lot of people will want that way more

600
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: than we'll get it. And so you have to find

601
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: the motivation to write as a practice almost every day

602
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: or every day, and you have to find a way

603
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: to enjoy it along the way, or you'll just be

604
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: wasting your life. So what she does is she says

605
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: it has to be for your satisfaction. You have to

606
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: set conditions. One of them is it has to be measurable. Right,

607
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: so you can't just be like when I feel like

608
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: I've won, Like, that's not measurable, so whatever, or when

609
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: my book is successful, and that's also not measurable. But

610
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: what is measurable is a certain number of words that

611
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: you have written in that day or that you have

612
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: completed a manuscript. Right, these are measurable things. And let's

613
00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 1: see what are the other ones. It has to be measurable.

614
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I'm gonna need to think about this later

615
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: because it's been a while. But if the thing can, oh,

616
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: it has to be realistic. That's another one that's really big.

617
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 3: Are you giving me a smart acronym?

618
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: Here?

619
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: Specific measurable, attainable, realistic, and time bound.

620
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty much like that. Yeah, pretty much like yeah,

621
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: And if you can do those things. But then the

622
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: trick to the conditions of satisfaction is that you set

623
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: those goals that meet that criteria and then once you've

624
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: done them, you must declare yourself satisfied. You have to

625
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: stop and declare yourself satisfied. You can't be like, well,

626
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: I wrote the fifteen hundred words and I have finished

627
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: it in the amount of done the amount of time,

628
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: but I could probably do five hundred more words right now, right.

629
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 1: You just you have to you have to lay that

630
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: down and you have to practice for a while. Let's

631
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: say you practice it for a month where you don't

632
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: raise the bar on yourself mid project. You just accomplish

633
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: the things and you stop at the end and you

634
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: feel satisfied. You give yourself gratitude for doing it, put

635
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: yourself on the back, whatever it is, move on next day,

636
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: do it again. Then you're practicing engaging with satisfaction. And

637
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: that feels so good, right, because then you're like you

638
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: can always control that. You can't control if you'll have

639
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: extra inspiration that day, if you'll really feel on a

640
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: roll if you'll tap into flow like none.

641
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: Of that, none of that, none of that.

642
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: And it's interesting that because the next step from satisfaction,

643
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, that's satisfaction. But then how does one

644
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 2: change satisfaction or kind of level up on satisfaction to

645
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: ensure joy.

646
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: I believe that they end up merging.

647
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 3: Okay, one of the same intertwined.

648
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, they become you know, you can't like joy is

649
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: an emotion that I think you can invite in, but

650
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: you can't guarantee shows up. But you're not going to

651
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: invite in joy if you can't accomplish satisfaction.

652
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love

653
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: to my sponsors.

654
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 3: First up.

655
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: Open Open is a digital mindfulness platform combining breathwork, meditation,

656
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: and movement. I am in the middle of a thirty

657
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: day challenge to kick off the year, and personally, I

658
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 2: am loving it. It is crazy for me, someone who

659
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: used to struggle so much to feel as though they

660
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: were doing quote unquote things right when it came to

661
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: breathwork and meditation, that I genuinely look forward to it

662
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: each and every single morning. I start my days with

663
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 2: about five to ten minutes of breathwork class and I

664
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: love doing them sat on the couch in my living room.

665
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: It's still dark outside and it is my time for

666
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: calm and coming back into my body before the day

667
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: starts to get a little bit crazy. And truly it

668
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: really does fuel in these classes. The teacher is in

669
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: the room with you. I love how easy it is

670
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: to follow along and the opportunity for me to give

671
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 2: back a little bit to myself. First thing. Open offers

672
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673
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676
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677
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Speaker 2: deeper into your practice.

678
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 3: Trust me, it's pretty cool. Let's take a class together.

679
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: Open is giving Hurdle listeners thirty days absolutely free when

680
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Speaker 2: Open dot Com slash Hurdle. Let me know what y'all

683
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: think and I will see you in class.

684
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 3: Also, got to give.

685
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,399
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686
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687
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711
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: Oh I love that.

712
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Speaker 2: Okay, wow, So we're we're making some big moves here

713
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: to get to a place where we're not only satisfied,

714
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 2: but we also have the opportunity to experience joy. So

715
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: for you, where would you say, within your running you

716
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: were at peak joy?

717
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, peak joy was once I started working with

718
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: my coach, Mark Roland in Eugene. So as in my

719
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: late twenties, thirty years old, i'd had enough roller coaster ride.

720
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: So I can give some of the credit to me

721
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: and Mark, but a lot of it was just the

722
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: setup from the years before that that were tough, the

723
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: hard earned lessons and whatnot.

724
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 3: But I was.

725
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: A proper grown up. My coach treated me like a

726
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: preper grown up. I had agency over my career. He

727
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: certainly provided the scaffolding and structure, but he made it

728
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: clear that I was responsible for bringing the magic. I

729
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,959
Speaker 1: was responsible for getting it done, and he wasn't going

730
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: to chase me around and make sure I did it.

731
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: He wasn't going to treat me like a child. And

732
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: I responded really really well to that I wanted to.

733
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: It helped me stay connected to the fact that I

734
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: was doing it for myself right in the end, and

735
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: it helped me stay grounded. So once I was doing

736
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: that and I had my practice of my conditions of

737
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: satisfaction where I would stay, I would set a goal

738
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: and I put it in the distance, I went through

739
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: the effort of really being mindful of what that goal

740
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: should look like like kind of like a like a

741
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: good better best, like it was more of like a target,

742
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: so that there were there was there were more than

743
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: there was more than one way to succeed. Right, So

744
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: if my goal was just like make the Olympics, that's

745
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: the bulls eye. There's things out of my control that

746
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: can't guarantee that. So the next ring out could be

747
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: run about in this like this time zone is what

748
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: I would consider acceptable, Like if I do all these

749
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: things well and I do them the best I can,

750
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: this would be an acceptable year. And so I set

751
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: the goals like that. But then once I had confidence

752
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: that I'd put in the time and I was mindful

753
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: about setting the goal, I left it over there on

754
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: the shelf, and then I focused ninety nine percent of

755
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: my energy on the day to day tasks that I

756
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: had identified as being necessary to get there. And it

757
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: was a lot like writing a book, where you just know,

758
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: like to write a book, you have to, as Ann

759
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: Lama says, write it bird by bird, Like if you're

760
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: writing a book on birds, you write it bird by bird,

761
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: and that chapter has a certain number of words, and

762
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: you get those words done, and you declare yourself satisfied,

763
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: and you wake up the next day and you do

764
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: it again. And I started building my life in a

765
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: way that was built around that structure, and I like

766
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: listened to the same music in the morning before hard

767
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: workout days, and I tried to just drop myself into

768
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: the present moment a lot, and I went on runs

769
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: on my easy days, and I paid attention. I made

770
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: sure I was like paying attention to the trails around me,

771
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: to the nature around me, the people around me, like

772
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: not just zoning out and numbing my way through life.

773
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: And that was that just felt good, Like the day

774
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: to day. There were so many days that felt good,

775
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: that felt that there was beauty in them, that my

776
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: running and my goal setting was like was an avenue,

777
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: like a way to live life. It wasn't life. It

778
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: was a way to engage with life. And that there's

779
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: so many of those paths that different people pick, and

780
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: I was just picking running at that stage. And I

781
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: was aware of that, of its actual place in my

782
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: life and the purpose it was supposed to bring me,

783
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: and doing my role that I could every day to

784
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: help it bring me that, and then acknowledging that the

785
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: rest is kind of up to luck and chance and

786
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: that God. That was fun. I won a national title

787
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: that year. I didn't run my fastest time of my life,

788
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: but I did win a title and I was seventh

789
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: in the world. And the coolest thing I think was

790
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: that before the World Championships in Daegu, South Korea, I

791
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: had this little tingling that I could maybe win a medal.

792
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: And nobody has ever finish higher than seventh in the

793
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: in the world in the five k So it wasn't

794
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: like I had a long line of champions that I

795
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: could look up to, and it didn't. The Ethiopians and

796
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: Kenyons really dominate the events, so it's not super realistic

797
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 1: to win a medal, but I did have this inkling

798
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: that maybe I could do it, and I let myself

799
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: lean into that without needing it to happen. I was like,

800
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: how fun to get to a stage in your life

801
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: where like, you genuinely believe you have a chance, right, Like,

802
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: why ruin that by putting a bunch of realism on

803
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: top of it? And no one's ever done it. I'm like, well, yeah,

804
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: you probably won't do it, but you might as well

805
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: ride this wave and be and let this light you up.

806
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: The race will be more fun. And it was. It

807
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: was so fun. I ended up seventh, but it was

808
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: like it was just great. It was great. And when

809
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: I became a coach I wanted to try to create

810
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: an environment where my athletes could feel that for themselves,

811
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: that thrill of potential, like of a chance, without the

812
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: stress of what if the chance doesn't happen?

813
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

814
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sitting here with this like big goofy grin

815
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: on my face because I just love that concept of

816
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: knowing the possibility exists and just going based on feel

817
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 2: I love, Like, why are you going to let realism,

818
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: come in and be the thing that totally damp bruends

819
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: this moment, right like, live the moment, have your joy,

820
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: feel the fuels, and keep going toward whatever it is

821
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: that big potential might exist. I mean, you're talking about

822
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: the twenty eleven World Champs. This is the same year

823
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: that you also debuted in the marathon, finishing twelve in

824
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: New York City. Such a complete polar opposite high like

825
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 2: okay versus marathon. What do you decide that you wanted

826
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: to do this one New York City marathon?

827
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: Well, it was It was a mixture of things. I

828
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: think that I was like addicted at this point to

829
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: the joy of running. I was so connected to myself.

830
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: I felt like, why not do a challenge that make

831
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: like kind of makes absolutely no sense to anybody else

832
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: to go from the five k to a marathon right

833
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: before an Olympic year, while I'll be before I'll be

834
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: training for the five k. But there was also really

835
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: good money in it, Like there's not really good money

836
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: in track at all and the roads. If you're good

837
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: at the marathon, you are getting paid, like you're getting

838
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: paid for five six figures to show up. I was

839
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: not getting paid six figures, but I got a pretty

840
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: good offer to show up and raise New York, and

841
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: there was something. I mean, you know, people can say

842
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: it's distasteful to talk about money or it makes it

843
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: less pure if money was part of it, but it

844
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: was like it really felt like I had I had

845
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: reached a level in sport that I wanted to celebrate

846
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: where somebody wanted to invite me and pay me to

847
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: come and bring not just my athleticism, but my spirit,

848
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: my energy, my enthusiasm, my honesty, my rawness to the experience.

849
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to do that. I wanted that

850
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: whole experience, and I brought Jesse with me, and yeah,

851
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: we had a really we had a really good time.

852
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: We had a really good time. You know, I'm one

853
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 2: to cheer for New York all the time. I've run

854
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: it five times. It's have you lived here? Yes, I

855
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 2: live here. I'm coming to you from Brooklyn right now. Like,

856
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 2: I just think, there's like truly nothing better. So for

857
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: me selfishly, I guess I'm happy that that was the

858
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 2: experience that you got to have because there's just, in

859
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: my opinion, absolutely nothing like it. This is also two

860
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: thousand and and the year before you join Wazelle. Talk

861
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: to us a little bit about making that decision. You

862
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 2: did kind of just you know, hint at the fact

863
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: that it's not about money, But was that a part

864
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 2: of making the decision to walk away from Nike and

865
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: go that route.

866
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, I've definitely felt undervalued at Nike when I went

867
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: back into contract negotiations heading into twenty twelve. So I

868
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: had just finished seventh in the world, and I'd done

869
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: this New York Marathon, and I felt in some ways

870
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: like I was in my prime, like really in my

871
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: prime of knowing myself, engaging with my sport, engaging with

872
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: my community, and feeling a lot of joy. But I

873
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: also wanted to have a baby, and that was something

874
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: that was kind of like an unforgivable desire at that

875
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: time in my sport and in sports in general, Like

876
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: it was a death sentence on your career basically, and

877
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: so it was very common practice at that time before

878
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: like Simontano and Kara Goucher and Alison Felix helped through

879
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: this New York Times documentary explode the idea or explode

880
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: the sporting world's way of treating pregnancy and contracts have

881
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: shifted since then to create some pregnancy protection, but before

882
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: that there wasn't. And so when you came to negotiate,

883
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: if you were near thirty years old, unless you explicitly

884
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: said I never want to have a child, you were

885
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: going to experience discrimination. You were going to be paid

886
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: less because they were going to assume that you were

887
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,479
Speaker 1: going to have a baby and that your best years

888
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: were behind you, that you were essentially one foot out

889
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: the door. And so when I went back in, I

890
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: was honest that I wanted to have a baby, but

891
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: I was also honest that I felt like I was

892
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: in my prime and that I wanted to come back

893
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: and race, But I also wanted to story continue storytelling

894
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: that having a child could be part of the larger story,

895
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: Like why wouldn't it be, like, obviously, not all women

896
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: have babies, but it's a thing that happens fairly regularly,

897
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: and the fact that it's considered like incompatible with sport

898
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: didn't make sense to me. But Nike didn't value that

899
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: at all, and they just didn't have any women in

900
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: the room. Really, I was like, it was like trying

901
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: to translate your lived experience to a different species at

902
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: that time, and it was very frustrating, and so I

903
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,439
Speaker 1: got this contract offer that was very, very very low,

904
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: and I was also going to be suspended the year

905
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: I was pregnant because that was the standard practice at

906
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: the time, so not getting paid anything and not allowed

907
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: to seek money from a competitive sponsor during that time,

908
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: just required to work for free. So I just was like,

909
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: screw this. And I had been developing sort of this

910
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: online crush for the company was all because they were

911
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: women owned, women led their CEO, ran their Twitter account,

912
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: and I was running Picky Bars, and we were sort

913
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: of learning from each other online how to leverage social

914
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: media tools when you don't have a big advertising budget

915
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: to connect and build community and build a customer base.

916
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: And so we'd had this little relationship that was more

917
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: like work peers. But then I want I was like,

918
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: I need to talk to this person. I need to

919
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: talk to Sally Bergerson. I want to find out how

920
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: if it's possible for us to work together, because how

921
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: cool would that be to do something totally different and

922
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: do it with a woman's centered approach. And it was

923
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 1: just like night and day. I mean, the pay wasn't

924
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: honestly very different, but I wasn't going to get suspended

925
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: for being pregnant. And I did become a partner, so

926
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: I got stock so I would be able to be

927
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: like a part owner in the company and if the

928
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 1: company succeeded, I would win too, And that was unheard

929
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: of at the time. And I just remember the conversation

930
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: where I told Sally, well, I just want you to

931
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: know I do want to have a child this year,

932
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: and she was like, great, we'll throw you a baby shower.

933
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 1: And I was like what. And I was like, well,

934
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: will I get suspended? What about the suspension? She's like,

935
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: why would you get suspended? Like sometimes women have babies,

936
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: that's just a fact, like, and I was like, oh

937
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: my god, I don't have to translate myself here. And

938
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: I got so excited about the potential of what that

939
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: could mean overall, if you don't need to translate yourself.

940
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: And that's not just in the running world or specific

941
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: to us. Oh, I think that's like we're at an

942
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: exciting time in history as women right now, where we

943
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: have reached critical mass and enough industries, whereas fifty years

944
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: ago we were like the odd ball or whatever was

945
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: the one female attorney in a farm or whatever, And

946
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: we have made a lot of progress, but we're only

947
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: just now getting to critical enough numbers in those spaces

948
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: where we're like, hey, we don't actually have to just

949
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: adapt to the existing culture. We can shape the culture.

950
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: We can design this place around us. And it doesn't

951
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: actually matter if men have uteruses, because if you like,

952
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: we can create a parental leave policy even though this

953
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: doesn't apply to their direct lived experience with a uterus,

954
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: we can create a policy that then everyone can benefit from. Right. So,

955
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: I think that that's an exciting thing about the story

956
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: in my book of a woman led company and making

957
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: that move. I wanted to help shift people's thinking in

958
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: the sports world at that time of what could be.

959
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 2: Possible when do you think your past and for storytelling

960
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: was born? And what have you gotten out of taking

961
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: hold of the reins and telling your story maybe in

962
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: a way that other athletes have not.

963
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: Gosh, well, I was just reading to my kids this

964
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: morning a story that I want a writing contest in

965
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: fourth grade for a little story called Amy's Adventures, and

966
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: I would enter the writing contest every year. Love. I've

967
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: always loved storytelling, but I've always loved reading. So I

968
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: think that probably my love, my passion for storytelling came

969
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: from being changed by other people's stories, from having my

970
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: view of the world expanded beyond beyond my cul de

971
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: sac in like working class, canning country, and seeing this

972
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: portal to other experiences, to other ways of being and

973
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: thinking and doing. And then once I got older and

974
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: was reading stories that were very raw about like, it's

975
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: easy to judge experiences that you have never had yourself, right,

976
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: and I think that like we can. You know, people

977
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: have a difficult time with concepts of like white privilege

978
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: or racism or sexism or all these things. If you

979
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: haven't if you don't feel you've experienced it yourself, you

980
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: can kind of like abstract it or be like, oh,

981
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: that's just in people's imaginations. But the power of story

982
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: works way better than statistics research papers. In sticking you

983
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: in someone's shoes, feeling their heartbeat, feeling their adrenaline, then

984
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: you can develop empathy and compassion. And so storytelling is

985
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: absolutely critical to like a functioning society and to growth,

986
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: so that you don't have to have hit every hurdle

987
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: yourself to learn the lessons from other people's hurdles. And

988
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: so once I experienced that, I wanted to. I wanted

989
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: to provide that in the sport world specifically, and I

990
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: also felt like it was being rewarded. So once I

991
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: started storytelling, brands were interested in sponsoring me. People could

992
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: see that I I was adding a value that was

993
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: different than just podiums and newspaper clippings. And I loved

994
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: this power that it gave me, and that the opportunity opened,

995
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: especially for female athletes, to only get four percent of

996
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: the media coverage or whatever and one percent of endorsement dollars.

997
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: We don't have to wait for the New York Times

998
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: or the Wall Street Journal. There's San Francisco Chronicle or whatever.

999
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: To decide our sports moment is worth writing about. We

1000
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: can just write about it. We decide what stories we tell.

1001
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: We can decide that the story of hitting the hurdle

1002
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,240
Speaker 1: is the most important story to tell in great emotional detail,

1003
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: and our audiences will find us. And I think I

1004
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: know that it impacted a lot of the athletes of

1005
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: my era to step out and do more storytelling, and

1006
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: it's very common now. I think it's like it's actually

1007
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: a job expectation now that you do it. And that's

1008
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 1: a whole other thing, is like should athletes be required

1009
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: to tell their personal lives on the internet or should

1010
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: it be enough that they're winning races and breaking records? Right,

1011
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: and so like, I'm not here to answer that question,

1012
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: but it's just something that I that I've watched evolve

1013
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: over my time. But I know that it brought me

1014
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: great value to be the teller of my own story,

1015
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 1: and I highly recommend that to people around me. Otherwise

1016
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: you're just at the mercy of other people's definition of success.

1017
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: And even if the only person you're telling the story

1018
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: too is your journal, Like, that's it's a way to

1019
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: like mark down what you feel is important and stay

1020
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: connected to that.

1021
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, a few things a double click on here.

1022
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: The first being that storytelling has evolved in such a

1023
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 2: way since you first started, right, because when you started,

1024
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: you were mostly blogging, is that right? Yeah, So now

1025
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,720
Speaker 2: like the blog has transferred over to what is social

1026
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 2: media and different medians of storytelling as well, whether that

1027
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 2: be actual writing or video. So that's like such an

1028
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 2: interesting evolution as well.

1029
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And like the different ways, Like some people use

1030
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 1: it purely for entertainment, right, to show a completely different

1031
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 1: side of themselves than their profession, which is really cool.

1032
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of ways to do it.

1033
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: I got like, I'm I was really well suited to blogging,

1034
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: and I loved Instagram and I loved Twitter, but I

1035
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: never got into like video. Really it was not my notice.

1036
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: There's still time for you, Lauren. You're right, we're not

1037
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 3: done just yet. We're not done those dead.

1038
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 2: And then the other thing really to touch on here

1039
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 2: is just this this concept of that everyone has a

1040
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: story to tell and the opportunity to tell it yourself

1041
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: instead of letting someone else tell it for you. I

1042
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: find that and i'd be I'm curious to know your

1043
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 2: experience with this. That oftentimes those that are hesitant to

1044
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 2: tell their story have this mindset that well, what's the point,

1045
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 2: like what makes me so unique? Like who's gonna read?

1046
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: Who's going to read this? And I love what you said,

1047
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 2: which was like, even if you're just telling it to

1048
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: your journal, you have the opportunity to tell your own story.

1049
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: So for someone that may feel hesitant to put pen

1050
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: to paper to tell their own story, to take ownership

1051
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 2: of that narrative, what advice do you have for them?

1052
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: Well, I would just say that I really don't believe

1053
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: people are most inspired by the successes and victories that

1054
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: we see. I think that we see those in a

1055
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: part of our brain recognizes them as success and we

1056
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: may feel jealousy or envy or some other moment of

1057
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: attachment and engagement with them. But the things that really

1058
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 1: affect our hearts and minds are people's every day struggles

1059
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 1: and their own insights and realizations. I mean, we started

1060
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: off this podcast talking about me reading a children's story

1061
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: multiple times and not knowing I was reading a book

1062
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: at all. Right, Like, that's just a little, very ordinary

1063
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 1: slice of life that has nothing to do with being

1064
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: a national champion athlete or an author or anything. And

1065
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: that was passed around to thousands of people that don't

1066
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: even know that I was an athlete or author. They

1067
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: connected with that moment of of like realization, right, And

1068
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 1: I think everybody has a rich life that is delivering

1069
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: them realizations at all times, and we don't want to

1070
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: lose those for ourselves, So I think it's important to

1071
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: mark them, whether it's in the journal or whatever. But

1072
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: also don't, like, don't underestimate the value it could bring

1073
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: to somebody else's life, Like you think about the most

1074
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: important people in your life or ordinary people living ordinary

1075
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: lives that are full of complete like richness and thickness

1076
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: and depth. And you are that too. You are changing

1077
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: people's lives the way they are shaping your life every day.

1078
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: So even if the stories we tell are just to

1079
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: our friends, like over a wine or cocktails or water,

1080
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, just valuing ourselves. I think there's like that's

1081
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: like the thing that if you start reading more memoir

1082
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: from don't read the memoirs of Olympic champions, you know,

1083
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 1: read the memoirs of ordinary folks, like read Marry Carr

1084
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: and like, I don't know, there's a lot, but just

1085
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: read ones where people are talking about life and what

1086
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 1: regular life teaches us and soak in their words and

1087
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: it helps see that our everyday life is valuable, whether

1088
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: we write about it or not.

1089
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's funny that that sentiment that you share,

1090
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: that like, we can be changed by this ordinary person. Right,

1091
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 2: And in your Instagram bio you literally have the words

1092
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 2: let's change shit.

1093
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 3: What does let's change shit mean to you? What should

1094
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 3: we be changing?

1095
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: Well? I think when I wrote that, I really believe

1096
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: in just questioning the way things have been done and

1097
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: doing the work in your life of anything you're doing

1098
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: on autopilot, like not assuming that that is the best

1099
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: way for you to do it, or even the best

1100
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: way for society to do it. Like we're doing the

1101
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: things the way we're doing them because of the decisions

1102
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: of people thousands of years, hundreds of years ago, fifty

1103
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: years ago, and those are the norms, and this is

1104
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: the place we have been born and grown up in

1105
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: and we're doing it right. But everything from like the

1106
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: way we think about love, relationships, capitalism, money, rest Like

1107
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: I love the idea of stopping to think about the

1108
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: choices we make every day and saying, do I make

1109
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: this choice with my own agency? Do I think about this?

1110
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: Have I actually really thought about this? Do I value

1111
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: this myself? Or have I inherited this? And I'm just

1112
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 1: taking it for granted. And that's a process. You don't

1113
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: have to rush and go through everything in one year.

1114
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: It takes a lifetime, right, So let's change shit is

1115
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: partially about that, like connecting with yourself what is actually

1116
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: meaningful and valuable to you, opening your mind, opening your heart,

1117
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: And if you do that, you're probably going to find

1118
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: things you're passionate about fundamentally changing in the world or

1119
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: in your community, and you're going to have enough fire

1120
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: to go do it. It won't be an abstract thing,

1121
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: right somebody's political campaign that you've heard the message of

1122
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: one hundred times has no meaning until you've stopped and

1123
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: sat down and thought about it. But you may be

1124
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 1: knocking on doors before you know it.

1125
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, before you know it.

1126
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 2: And on that line of Instagram, you know, someone comes

1127
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 2: to your page, they see an athlete, a writer, wazel

1128
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 2: brand strategy advisor. You've got seventy thousand followers. But when

1129
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 2: you look in the mirror, Lauren, what is it that

1130
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: you see looking back at you.

1131
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: Oh, that's such a great question. I see somebody I'm

1132
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: really proud of right now. I see I see my

1133
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: aging lines, I see my I see my freckles, the

1134
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: same freckles from when I was a kid. I see

1135
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: I see tiredness from my kids, from raising my kids,

1136
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: and from all the things. I see the wear of

1137
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: the world that I've lived in and that I'm in

1138
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: the life. I'm trying to live the evidence of my existence.

1139
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: And I'm really proud of myself for growing and remaining

1140
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: open hearted and open minded. I feel like I feel

1141
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: like I'm at the beginning of my best years.

1142
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 2: When you think about what excites you right now, aside

1143
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: from the book, what.

1144
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: Comes to mind, I think just my loved ones, building

1145
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: closer relationships with people. Relationships have been on the back

1146
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,919
Speaker 1: burner in the name of career for a long time

1147
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: in my life, most of my life, and I let

1148
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: select ones in. But I think that I've still been

1149
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: afraid to be truly open hearted and really put roots

1150
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: down in a community. So I'm excited to do that more. Yeah,

1151
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: I think engaging with youth on the topics of my

1152
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 1: book wherever, whatever happens after that, I want to stay

1153
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: open to the change makers who want to do something

1154
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: about the issues in the book and see what comes

1155
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: from it. So I think there's a lot I have

1156
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: a lot more questions and answers about what I'll be

1157
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 1: doing next. But that's a good place to be too.

1158
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 2: I love that perspective because so often, you know, when

1159
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: you think of a situation and you realize that you

1160
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: do have so many questions about what's to come, that

1161
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 2: can be a truly overwhelming.

1162
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 3: Place to be in.

1163
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 2: But for you to really embrace and kind of relish

1164
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 2: in this way is it's a little outside the box.

1165
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the midlife crisis exists for a reason, right.

1166
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: I think it's like it's more of a midlife opportunity. Really,

1167
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: But you've lived long enough on this planet to realize

1168
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: you haven't got everything right. You've gone far enough down

1169
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 1: certain roads you chose a long time ago to now

1170
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: wonder if they still fit, if there's still the right

1171
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: road for you. And I am firmly in the middle

1172
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: of that. I'm firmly in the middle of Like, Okay,

1173
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: my whole life has been related to running in some

1174
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: way up until this point, and I've enjoyed it. But

1175
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: I also have hopefully many more years to come. And

1176
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: what lights me up. I love creating a community. I

1177
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: want to I think I want to spend less of

1178
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: my life trying to reach as many people as possible

1179
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: and try to go narrower and deeper in my relationships.

1180
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm less enthusiastic about social media, so I'm trying to

1181
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: figure out how I'm going to relate to the larger

1182
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: world issues that I do care about, but firmly from

1183
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: this new place that feels right to me, which is

1184
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 1: I don't want to chase anyone's approval I don't want

1185
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: to dance to other people's drums. I really want to

1186
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: make sure that I'm mindful about the choices I'm making

1187
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: in this world, and that the work that I need

1188
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: to do bringing myself to it, my real self to it.

1189
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to dance to anybody else's drums. Okay,

1190
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 2: final two questions for you here, Lauren. First question, you

1191
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: are a woman of many words again, new author, new book.

1192
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 2: But if you had to choose one word at the

1193
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 2: top of a new year here twenty twenty three, a

1194
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 2: word that you're carrying with you into this year.

1195
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 3: What is it?

1196
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to say, love?

1197
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 3: Do you have a why?

1198
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that loving the people in my life,

1199
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: being led by love will really help me with a

1200
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: lot of these transitions and choices.

1201
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 2: Right now, you have an opportunity to offer yourself a

1202
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 2: piece of advice. I'm going to bring us back to

1203
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 2: where we started at the top of this episode. You're

1204
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: going through a time that it feels like you're in

1205
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 2: a room and you cannot open the blinds. You're sitting

1206
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 2: in the darkness, and we're feeling, as we said earlier, frozen.

1207
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 2: You have an opportunity to offer that version of yourself

1208
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: a piece of advice. Knowing what you know now during

1209
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 2: that hurdle moment, what do you tell her?

1210
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: So much of your pain in life has come from

1211
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: thinking you needed to change who you are to get

1212
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: what you want, when really you need to be more you.

1213
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: You need to spend the time figuring out who you are,

1214
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: what makes you tick, what your offerings are, and turn

1215
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: the light up on those things. Be more of those

1216
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: things and that is going to give you. That give

1217
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 1: you the runway to a uniquely yours path. Get rid

1218
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: of all that friction of trying to get on somebody

1219
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: else's path or be somebody else, a.

1220
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 3: Uniquely yours path.

1221
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 2: Lauren Fleshman so excited that we were able to sit down,

1222
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: and I'm so excited for you in this beautiful new chapter,

1223
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 2: no pun intended filled with love.

1224
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 3: How do the hurdlers follow along with you? How do

1225
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 3: they keep up with you?

1226
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 4: Give us all of your details Well Fleshman Flyer on Instagram,

1227
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 4: Lauren Fleshman on Twitter, and then Lauren Fleshman dot com

1228
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 4: is my website which is currently a landing page for.

1229
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: My book for pre ordering my book. But yeah, you could,

1230
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: I'd say the best way to get to know me

1231
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,479
Speaker 1: is to buy Good for a Girl and read from

1232
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: start to finish, and it'll probably take you five hours.

1233
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty quick read if you have

1234
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: the time.

1235
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,479
Speaker 2: If you have the time, I am over at Emily

1236
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 2: Body and at Hurdle Podcast. I'll link the book in

1237
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 2: the show notes. Another Hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.