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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A bloody Valentine.

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Speaker 2: A husband murders his wife because she quote just didn't

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Speaker 2: give a shit about his Paris themed date, and Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 2: this is crime Stories, thank.

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Speaker 3: You for being with us. A Valentine's Day dinner turns

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Speaker 3: deadly and Indiana mother of three young kids is murdered

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Speaker 3: during a romantic dinner.

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Speaker 1: Does it sound that romantic to me?

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Speaker 2: He goes to Kroger to the Fine Wine aisle, brings

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Speaker 2: home a bottle of wine and plays their favorite song

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Speaker 2: along with the kids drawing.

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Speaker 1: Of the Eiffel Tower?

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Speaker 2: What is she not supposed to remember the affair he had?

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Speaker 2: Now let me understand this is this real? A husband

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Speaker 2: accused of bludgeoning and stabbing his wife forty times his words,

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Speaker 2: not mine, because she didn't give a shot about his

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Speaker 2: Paris themed night date.

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Speaker 1: I think I've got that right, but maybe I'm wrong. Listen.

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Speaker 4: Jeffersonville, Indiana police get a call about a possible domestic disturbance.

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Speaker 4: May respond to the upscale sixty six hundred block of

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Speaker 4: Westwood Drive, but cannot get into the home. Officers knock

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Speaker 4: on the front door but did not hear a response,

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Speaker 4: and decide force is necessary and breach the door.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna get straight to the facts, but first I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go to doctor Bethany Marshall RENOUNCEDSYCHO and was

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Speaker 2: joining us out of the LA.

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Speaker 1: Jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.

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Speaker 2: You can find her at doctor Bethany MARSHALLMD dot com. Wait,

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Speaker 2: that's doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and you can see

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Speaker 2: her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us. Let me understand something. Hobby puts on a

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Speaker 2: sad little song, what does he pull it up on

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Speaker 2: his iPhone of what used to be their favorite song?

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Speaker 2: Buys a sad little bottle of wine at Kroger and

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Speaker 2: has his child draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower,

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Speaker 2: and he's angry that she quote his words, doesn't give

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Speaker 2: a about his Paris theme night date, so he murders her.

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Speaker 1: What is she was?

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Speaker 2: She supposed to forget about the affair he had and

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Speaker 2: be just bowled over by a glass of red wine.

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Speaker 5: If we look at this from a domestic violence perspective,

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Speaker 5: this husband probably wanted power and control over her, because

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Speaker 5: that's the m O with DV, and so probably him

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Speaker 5: having an affair in the past, making her feel bad

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Speaker 5: about herself. Probably giving her very little in the marriage

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Speaker 5: was probably getting her to a point where she wanted

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Speaker 5: some independence, and the fact that she wanted some independence

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Speaker 5: destabilized him. So he steps up, does this little Valentine's

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Speaker 5: Day dinner so he can try to get control over

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Speaker 5: him again.

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Speaker 6: He's not trying to.

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Speaker 5: Seduce her, give a gift or do something nice for her.

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Speaker 5: He wants her back in the fold. But when she

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Speaker 5: leaves for twenty minutes, he becomes paranoid, thinks she's out

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Speaker 5: with the boyfriend, and then he decompensates, and that's when

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Speaker 5: the ragefulness and you know, he takes the power over

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Speaker 5: her to a whole new level. When you kill somebody,

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Speaker 5: that's the ultimate power.

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Speaker 1: Correct.

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Speaker 2: Let me understand something, doctor Bethany, What does it mean

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Speaker 2: having not only prosecuted violent felonies for a decade in

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Speaker 2: intercity Atlanta, but volunteered for nine of those years at

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Speaker 2: the Better.

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Speaker 1: Women Center on the hotline?

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Speaker 2: How does it escalate or is that even the right word?

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Speaker 2: To get that angry because she didn't like your iPhone

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Speaker 2: playing the night we met or whatever it was, and

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Speaker 2: giving me a glass of wine how does that escalate

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Speaker 2: into murder? Because in my world, bethany years of training

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Speaker 2: makes me look at the world a different way, such

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Speaker 2: as is their premeditation? Was this planned? When did he

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Speaker 2: hatch the plot? What can I prove to a jury?

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Speaker 2: What is probative to me? So the term you use escalate,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that I agree with that, because that

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Speaker 2: somehow means that the situation.

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Speaker 1: Got out of control and whoops, she's dead. That's not

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Speaker 1: what happened. He had to go get the bottle that

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Speaker 1: he used to bludgeon her, stab her.

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Speaker 2: That took time and a forethought, a technical term we

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Speaker 2: use in the law.

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Speaker 1: It didn't just escalate and whoops, it happened, right right,

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Speaker 1: He didn't.

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Speaker 5: In other words, he didn't snap because people love that word.

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Speaker 5: So I see where you're going with this, and you're correct.

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Speaker 5: Probably what happened is at the beginning of the marriage,

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Speaker 5: he had tight control over her, and she wanted to

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Speaker 5: have autonomy over her whole life, her own life. Maybe

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Speaker 5: she took a college course, or started getting friends, or

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Speaker 5: went out and got a job. And as she became

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Speaker 5: more and more independent, the escalation was that he became

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Speaker 5: more and more paranoid, insecure. Remember, he sat on her

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Speaker 5: back and was scrolling through her phone. He was trying

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Speaker 5: to spy on her through her watch. So when it

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Speaker 5: escalated in that moment, it wasn't just like a snap

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Speaker 5: or a sudden escalation. It had been escalating over years.

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Speaker 5: But the fact is, when she said, Okay, what are

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Speaker 5: you going to do?

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Speaker 1: Kill me?

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Speaker 5: That was one act of independence. When she left and

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Speaker 5: got in her car and drove away, that was another

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Speaker 5: act of independence. So I would think that homicide that

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Speaker 5: was contemplated at an unconscious level, or hatefulness that was

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Speaker 5: contemplated for months or years, finally finally finally spilled over

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Speaker 5: when she became her own person.

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Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Bethany, and I accept everything that you just said.

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Speaker 2: For those of you just joining us, a husband who

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Speaker 2: is presumed innocent is suspected of bludgeoning and stabbing his

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Speaker 2: wife dead when she quote his words, not mine when

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Speaker 2: she quote didn't give a share about his Paris theme party,

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Speaker 2: so he murders her. On Valentine's Greg Morris Joining Me Guys,

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Speaker 2: Greg Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Florida is

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Speaker 2: a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at King Morse.

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Speaker 2: Your name should be first, by the way, former West

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Speaker 2: Palm Beach Public Defender's Office and author of the Untested

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Speaker 2: on Amazon. Greg, you know what of the many things

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Speaker 2: that I hate is when people say.

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Speaker 1: I snapped, or she snapped, or he snapped. There is

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Speaker 1: no snap defense under the law.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So given that, and don't try to convince me otherwise,

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Speaker 2: because that's a lie. He would have to in order

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Speaker 2: to murder her in this manner bludgeoning the Hey, Christina Raya,

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Speaker 2: I'm coming to you. But how many children.

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Speaker 1: Did they have? Two? Or three?

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Speaker 7: Three children, all under the age of.

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Speaker 1: Five, Greg Morris.

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Speaker 2: The children are at home, by the way, asleep, he

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Speaker 2: had to think. Under the law, premeditation does not require

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Speaker 2: a long period of time, such as I'm going to

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Speaker 2: poison Greg Morris over the period of the next month,

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Speaker 2: where the little r say, every day in his coffee

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Speaker 2: till he is dead, not required. In fact, the time

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Speaker 2: required under the law, whether we like it or not,

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Speaker 2: can be in an instant, the twinkling of the moment,

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Speaker 2: the blink of an eye, the time it takes me

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Speaker 2: to raise this gun and pull the trigger.

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Speaker 1: That is enough time. Under the law for premeditation.

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Speaker 2: In other words, murder one malice, murder, murder, A forethought

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Speaker 2: this guy, if the allegations are true, husband, how to

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Speaker 2: go and get the wine bottle, grasp it, raise it

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Speaker 2: over his head and bludget her over and over and

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Speaker 2: over with the thick glass of a wine bottle, and

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Speaker 2: then stab her. The knife to just materialize in his hand.

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Speaker 2: Had to get a knife and use it. So long

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Speaker 2: story short, that is time to form intent.

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Speaker 1: You're right.

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Speaker 8: Intent can come up in the moment. You're one hundred

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Speaker 8: percent right under the law. But in these type of cases,

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Speaker 8: when you talk about the phrase snapped, and I've represented

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Speaker 8: people accused of violent felonies for twenty five years, and

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Speaker 8: one thing is when the act to commit the violence,

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Speaker 8: most people don't understand that moment in time and the

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Speaker 8: consequence and wish they can take.

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Speaker 7: It all back.

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Speaker 8: But what we can't do is look at an insanity.

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Speaker 8: We can't look at the crime. It's violent, it's horrible,

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Speaker 8: So therefore the person must be insane. That crime is

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Speaker 8: the outgrowth of insanity. And what I think we have here,

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Speaker 8: and I've dealt with this before in cases, you probably

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Speaker 8: have a timeline of this person the husband you know

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Speaker 8: of getting frustrated, getting more warped than his understanding of

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Speaker 8: his wife's relationship. People think mental illness is someone in

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Speaker 8: a white coat in a room, but mental illness can

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Speaker 8: develop subtly, and it can develop over time. These folks

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Speaker 8: were looking for help that I guess an appointment with

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Speaker 8: a marriage counselor three days later. Unfortunately, that makes you.

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Speaker 2: You are actually plunging a dagger into my heart.

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Speaker 1: Your misstatement of.

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Speaker 2: The law is shameless mental illness. He had no prior

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Speaker 2: mental illness at all. He got mad because his wife,

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Speaker 2: and he said this, she just didn't give us about

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Speaker 2: my parents' them mine.

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Speaker 1: He said that that is that is anger. Yes, no,

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Speaker 1: it's anger defense. This was a ragonal law.

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Speaker 8: Yes, no, rageful killing, one hundred percent rageful killing that

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Speaker 8: amount of.

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Speaker 1: Under the law. Can you answer that with a straight face, Mors.

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Speaker 8: But if I'm living in reality where that is the

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Speaker 8: appropriate response to her reaction, then yes it is again, Nancy,

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Speaker 8: the crime.

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Speaker 2: Is he you say, is anger the appropriate response to her.

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Speaker 1: Reaction for his date nine? Okay, First of all, control.

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Speaker 2: Mike cut his mind right now, Shannon Henry, Right, there

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Speaker 2: is the problem crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Shannon Henry is joining me. She's the president and.

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Speaker 2: Founder of sas sass Go. It is surviving assault, standing

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Speaker 2: strong on a mission to eradicate abuse and violence against

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Speaker 2: women and girls.

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Speaker 1: Shannon, did you hear what he just said?

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Speaker 9: I did, and I'm so glad you cut him off

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Speaker 9: so that the people listening don't believe that crap. This

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Speaker 9: was not just about power and control. This was about ownership.

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Speaker 9: He didn't have any anymore, and so he stole it.

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Speaker 9: It was not about rage. It wasn't a crime of passion.

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Speaker 9: I don't want to hear that either. This was a

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Speaker 9: sadistic killing where he enjoyed watching her suffer from the

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Speaker 9: dress he made her put on, to the dance he

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Speaker 9: made her due to the end where she begged for

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Speaker 9: her life and the lives of her children. It was

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Speaker 9: the grand finale of their marriage, from start to finish,

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Speaker 9: and he enjoyed it all. And I guarantee you this

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Speaker 9: wasn't the first time she felt like her life was

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Speaker 9: being threatened, but it was the last.

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Speaker 1: Would you describe Shannon Henry?

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to go out to the national news

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Speaker 2: anchor at Salem News Channel, Christine Ohio. But Shannon Henry

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Speaker 2: joining us from surviving assault standing strong mission eradicate violence

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Speaker 2: on women.

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Speaker 1: You said from the.

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Speaker 2: Dress he made her wear to the dance he made

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Speaker 2: her do.

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Speaker 1: What are you talking about?

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Speaker 9: I'm talking about him setting up a stage where every

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Speaker 9: gift quote unquote was a threat and she knew it.

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Speaker 9: You don't go from zero to murder this fast. And

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Speaker 9: if she could clarify it for us all today, she

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Speaker 9: would beg us to listen to her final words of

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Speaker 9: help and what are you going to do? Murder me

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Speaker 9: and leave our children without parents? She was not confused

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Speaker 9: about him. There is a gap that we have in

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Speaker 9: the story between her working hard as a twelve hour

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Speaker 9: shift nurse to him being promiscuous and lazy up to

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Speaker 9: the date of February fourteenth, twenty twenty five where he

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Speaker 9: murdered her. But I guarantee you some of her friends

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Speaker 9: and co workers and family could fill in this gap

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Speaker 9: for us. But the red flags are there. This was

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Speaker 9: about ownership. He didn't have it anymore, so he stole

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Speaker 9: it and bragg to everyone who he could about taking it.

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Speaker 3: You details emerge after an Indiana doting husband and father

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Speaker 3: allegedly confesses to murder after feeling unappreciated, were warning signs missed?

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Speaker 1: Warning signs unappreciated?

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Speaker 2: That is not justification for murder and joining me who

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Speaker 2: I've got a lot of problems with him?

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Speaker 1: Greg Morris, a veteran trial lawyer.

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Speaker 2: He's the partner at a big law firm, King Morse,

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Speaker 2: He's apparently the king of the courtroom down in Palm

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Speaker 2: Beach County, Florida.

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Speaker 1: But to Shannon Henry.

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Speaker 2: Joining us, you can look at Morse, but keep his

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Speaker 2: MinC cut for just a moment, Shannon, he joining me

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Speaker 2: from sas surviving assault standing strong.

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Speaker 1: We got off topic because what you were.

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Speaker 2: Saying was so interesting, But I want to go back

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Speaker 2: to what Morse said. He responded and got angry to

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Speaker 2: her because of her reaction to his Paris theme night,

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Speaker 2: which was basically a Bible cheat red wine and playing

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Speaker 2: a song on his iPhone that was the theme night,

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Speaker 2: and then getting some sexy dress and making her wear

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Speaker 2: it and dance with him.

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Speaker 1: That was the theme night.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right there, Shannon Henry, I can't tell you how

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Speaker 2: many times I heard.

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Speaker 1: I did it because she fill in the blank.

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Speaker 2: Here is my seminal example, Shannon, This is a real example.

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Speaker 1: This happened on the hotline at the Batter Women's Center.

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Speaker 2: The man beats the wife so badly she has to

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Speaker 2: go to the hospital because he was bringing people from

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Speaker 2: work home and he told her to make a Mexican dinner,

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Speaker 2: so she makes a Mexican dinner. He comes in and

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Speaker 2: finds out, I don't remember which one she made, tacos

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Speaker 2: not Enchilada's. And he beat her to a pulp. So

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Speaker 2: he actually said, well, it's because she.

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Speaker 1: Made the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: Here, you hear Greg Morrise defend and I know what

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Speaker 2: he's doing.

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Speaker 1: He's defending the husband here. That's his job. He is saying.

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Speaker 2: He just had this response because of her reaction. She

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Speaker 2: reacted badly, and he responded, it's always the woman's fault, Shannon.

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Speaker 9: It's always theman's fault. And what's so sad is to

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Speaker 9: look at the stack of red flags that are against him.

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Speaker 9: He had no remorse. He bragged about how big the

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Speaker 9: knife was. He sent the pictures. He made her do

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Speaker 9: a song and dance in front of him and act

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Speaker 9: like she enjoyed it, and when she didn't seem to

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Speaker 9: appreciate it, he murdered her. And he is the only

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Speaker 9: one responsible for that.

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Speaker 2: We also learned that he was convinced his wife was

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Speaker 2: dating a coworker.

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Speaker 1: Answer.

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Speaker 2: Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement twenty six years veteran detective,

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Speaker 2: now owner chief operator of Barry in Associates Investigative Services,

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Speaker 2: and you can find him on his new website, p

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Speaker 2: I Pride Investigator Barry b A r R.

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Speaker 1: Wife Barry, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Oh what a tangled web results from imagining your mate

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Speaker 2: having an affair with a co worker. Lucky for me,

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Speaker 2: my husband he knew I would never have an affair

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Speaker 2: with a defense attorney or all the other eligible men

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Speaker 2: that were in the courtroom, mostly convicted felons in leg

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Speaker 2: irons and shackles.

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Speaker 1: And I have.

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Speaker 2: Never even considered that he would run around with a

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Speaker 2: client or a co worker. I just, in fact, one

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Speaker 2: time I read his emails one time. One time they

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Speaker 2: were so boring. He's a banker, My eyes bled. I

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Speaker 2: just it was awful if I had.

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Speaker 1: To check up on a man to figure out if

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Speaker 1: he's cheating, why do I need him?

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Speaker 6: Bye bye?

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Speaker 2: But here this guy was convinced she's having an affair,

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Speaker 2: and it justified murder.

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Speaker 10: Well, there's no justification in murder, regardless of what the

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Speaker 10: circumstances are. I mean, so you know that as well

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Speaker 10: as I do. I think what we have here is

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Speaker 10: a classic case of when motive meets opperunity. I think

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Speaker 10: it was a long based talkic relationship that this young

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Speaker 10: lady unfortunately, should have been out of long before this

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Speaker 10: ever happened. The only saving grace in this whole scenario

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Speaker 10: that I can even come up with in my mind

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Speaker 10: is that I'm just thankful that it didn't turn out

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Speaker 10: to be a swat call where the kids were endangered,

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Speaker 10: where he actually executed the children too, as the ultimate

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Speaker 10: showing of I'm going to hurt them in front of you,

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Speaker 10: just to show you what I think of you. We've

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Speaker 10: seen that happen on swat calls many many, many times,

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Speaker 10: and we're fortunate if that didn't take place.

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Speaker 2: You mean, and what they call now Barry a family annihilator.

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Speaker 2: So what I'm asking you, and it was in a

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Speaker 2: very roundabout way, and I apologize for.

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Speaker 1: That, Barry. I know that as a PI you get

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Speaker 1: a lot of calls.

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Speaker 2: About I think my girlfriend, boyfriend, ex wife blah blah

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Speaker 2: is cheating. Isn't it true that very often people get

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Speaker 2: this in their head and it's absolutely not true at all.

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Speaker 10: That's very true, very true. In fact, the biggest thing

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Speaker 10: that we do, and we tell all of our clients

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Speaker 10: SYS up front, is that our mission is to vet

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Speaker 10: your spouse that they are not cheating, and if it

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Speaker 10: turns out that they are, then we'll address it at

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Speaker 10: that point. But our mission is to vet them that

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Speaker 10: they are not doing.

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Speaker 2: So, guys, listen to what happened.

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Speaker 4: Deborah's friend receives a photo texted from Deborah's phone. It

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Speaker 4: shows Deborah Meyer motionless and bloody on the floor of

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Speaker 4: her home with the caption your fault. Nine one one

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Speaker 4: Dispatch gets a call from the coworker of Deborah Meyer.

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Speaker 4: When they arrive, Taylor Meyer is refusing to come to

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Speaker 4: the door. Almost as soon as police arrive, so does

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Speaker 4: Deborah Meyer's coworkers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got so much premeditation. It's out the ying

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Speaker 2: yang technical legal term. Here to Kristin Awayo joining me,

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Speaker 2: national news anchor Salem News, explain to me that sequence

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Speaker 2: of events, the.

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Speaker 1: Co worker.

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Speaker 2: Finds out that there's a quote domestic situation, which is,

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Speaker 2: you know, a euphemism for somebody's.

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Speaker 1: Getting their rear in beat, all right, that's what that means.

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Speaker 2: Coworker calls nine to one one and coworker says, Deborah

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Speaker 2: Meyer is being attacked right now, go to this address.

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Speaker 2: Cops get there, and then the coworker gets a text

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Speaker 2: describe that sequence of events for me, so I understand

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Speaker 2: exactly what happened.

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Speaker 6: That's the wildest part about all of this, right. So,

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Speaker 6: Deborah Meyer's husband, Taylor actually calls a contact in the

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Speaker 6: phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is actually

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Speaker 6: the co worker while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back,

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Speaker 6: and she's screaming.

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Speaker 7: In the background, help me, help me, help me.

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Speaker 6: So her coworker hears this while her husband is telling

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Speaker 6: the coworker this is all your fault. So of course

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Speaker 6: the coworker calls the cops and says she's in danger.

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Speaker 7: I can hear her screaming.

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Speaker 6: He hops in his car high tails it over to

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Speaker 6: her house, as do the cops, and they're meeting in

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Speaker 6: the front yard. The cops are trying to get into

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Speaker 6: the front door. Of course, Taylor Myers not answering the

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Speaker 6: door because he's abusing his wife, possibly killing her.

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Speaker 7: At that very moment.

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Speaker 6: Because it was while the coworker was standing in the

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Speaker 6: front yard of the home, he gets the text message

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Speaker 6: of the picture of Deborah Meyer on the floor of

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Speaker 6: her own home dead. So that's when police officers decide

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Speaker 6: to bust down the door. They said that Taylor Meyer

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Speaker 6: was aggressive, resisted arrest, and they finally arrested him. But

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Speaker 6: it's almost safe to presume that he could have been

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Speaker 6: in the act of killing her while the police officers

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Speaker 6: and the coworker we're out on the front lawn trying

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Speaker 6: to get into the house. I mean, it was that

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Speaker 6: tight of a timeline.

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Speaker 11: Accusing her husband of cheating on her and ignoring their

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Speaker 11: children via email, Deborah tries explaining her feelings by saying,

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Speaker 11: I'm supposed to be your wife, your partner, raising children

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Speaker 11: with you, co parenting. I get that you have hobbies

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Speaker 11: and want some time to yourself, but I also feel

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Speaker 11: like that should be limited to certain times of the

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Speaker 11: day and not just immediately get home, shower and go

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Speaker 11: play games and ignore your family that has missed you

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Speaker 11: all day.

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Speaker 2: That is an email that she, the murder victim, sent

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Speaker 2: to her husband prior to her murder. Christina Owyo joining

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Speaker 2: me national news anchor Salem News. So she is asking

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Speaker 2: him to help her raise the children. I quote, get

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Speaker 2: you have hobbies and want time to yourself, but I

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Speaker 2: also feel like you should spend time with the children,

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Speaker 2: not just get home, shower and go play games. I

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Speaker 2: would go backflip after I work all day long and

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Speaker 2: make dinner. And if my husband came home and immediately

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Speaker 2: went to the back and got on video games.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, fur would fly. Let me just tell you that.

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Speaker 1: And she's writing in this nice email about it.

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Speaker 6: And this was back in twenty twenty three, and this

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Speaker 6: is the same email where she accused him of cheating.

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Speaker 6: So the story of Infhtae is going back to the

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Speaker 6: beginning part of their marriage. She said that he was

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Speaker 6: in the email accused him of having a relationship with

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Speaker 6: another woman which he kept in contact constant context with,

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Speaker 6: And she even accused him of seeing that woman who

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Speaker 6: she thought she was dating, directly before the family went

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Speaker 6: and took family Christmas pictures.

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Speaker 7: So she already thought he was cheating.

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Speaker 6: He may have been cheating, he was ignoring the family,

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Speaker 6: she was reaching out, and she in that email actually

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Speaker 6: threatened to leave him, which she didn't want to do

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Speaker 6: because it was going to be hard to take care.

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Speaker 7: Of the three kids. But she was going to Yes.

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Speaker 2: What did nude photos and somebody's phone mean to you?

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Speaker 7: Cheatings?

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Speaker 12: For me?

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Speaker 2: That means divorcee and doctor Bethany Marshall listened to this.

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Speaker 4: Frustrated and feeling like a single mom, Deborah writes an

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Speaker 4: email to her husband accusing him of cheating, claiming he

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Speaker 4: met up with his girlfriend minutes before they took their

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Speaker 4: family Christmas photo together at the mall. In the explosive email,

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Speaker 4: Debraa said she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude

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Speaker 4: photos from people he was with before they were together

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Speaker 4: as a couple. Nebra also accuses her husband of ignoring

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Speaker 4: her and the couple's three children to play video games.

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Speaker 4: She concludes the email with quote, raising three kids is exhausting,

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Speaker 4: but if I have to, I'm going to do it alone.

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Speaker 4: Just let me know and I'll figure something else out.

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Speaker 1: Raising three children on her own.

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Speaker 2: That's how she felt nude photos he's exchanging with old girlfriends,

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Speaker 2: according to her, ducking out to see the girlfriend before

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Speaker 2: the Christmas photo together. First of all, Bethany Marshall, do

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Speaker 2: you agree with me that sending nude photos is cheating.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I'm really surprised you said I thought you were going

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Speaker 2: to take the other tech.

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Speaker 1: But explain to me. I mean I would be I

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Speaker 1: think so.

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Speaker 2: Hurt to find out my husband's exchanging nude photos. First

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Speaker 2: of all, I wouldn't believe it. I think somebody is

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Speaker 2: stolen his phone and was doing it.

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Speaker 1: But that said, it's cheating, Okay, Nancy.

444
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 5: Not only is this cheating, but Taylor entered this relationship,

445
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 5: this marriage with Deborah thinking he could do whatever he

446
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 5: wants to do, and Deborah was in a double mind.

447
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 5: She's sent out to work, she's a nurse, she supports

448
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 5: the family, and all the time that she's out there working,

449
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 5: he's just brewing up a fantasy that she's cheating on him,

450
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 5: when in fact it's a projection because he's cheating on her.

451
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 5: I love what Shannon said about this is not just

452
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 5: about power. This is about ownership. He owns her and

453
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 5: he can do whatever he wants. Send her out like

454
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 5: a dog to work, the minute she gets home, go out,

455
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 5: have his own affair, or do whatever he wants to do.

456
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 5: He's highly manipulative, and he's been grooming her for years,

457
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 5: that she is just an object to be used. I

458
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 5: also think, Nancy, that he is so vindictive. This is

459
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 5: a part of his personality and it comes out when

460
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 5: he's talking to the police.

461
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 7: It's almost like he's.

462
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: Bragging about the knife.

463
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,239
Speaker 5: And I think one underlying component that we all need

464
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 5: to recognize about DV is that perpetrators everything hurts their feelings,

465
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 5: Everything makes them feel insulted, like they've been insulted by

466
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 5: the other person. So your story about the man who

467
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 5: beat his wife to a pault because she made tacos

468
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 5: rather than enchiladas, he probably.

469
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: Took that as a.

470
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 5: Personal affront, felt insulted, then felt diminished, then deflated, and

471
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 5: then went on the attack, because that is the classic pattern.

472
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 2: I want to go straight back out to Greg Morse

473
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: joining us please uncut his mic partner at King Morris,

474
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: veteran trial lawyer. I hope you've had time to think

475
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 2: about what you said, that he killed her because of

476
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: the way she reacted. Would you like to clarify your opinion?

477
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 8: And with this premeditation stuff on these facts, everyone has

478
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 8: to make a lot of leaps of faith, and frankly,

479
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 8: it's just it's not there and what we know so far.

480
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 8: What I was saying is that when people have mental illness,

481
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 8: and this is a hard case. You know, you were

482
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 8: a prosecutor temporary insanity illness, No, no, no, but I would.

483
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 5: Use the show, Nancy, all of your experts just made

484
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 5: my case for me.

485
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 8: I'd hire them in my case. Talking about how he

486
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 8: wants to control an act that would that would let

487
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 8: us believe that he made know. What I'm saying is

488
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 8: that this guy there's no domestic violence before. So if

489
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 8: he wants to control every aspect of our life, and

490
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 8: he's contrived and intentional, we're going to see police reports.

491
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 8: Generally we see this act out well before the murder.

492
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 8: In these cases, what we have is mental illness doesn't

493
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 8: just come with people in white coats and screaming about aliens.

494
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 8: It's very subtle. And if this guy believed at the

495
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 8: time that his wife's reaction he was living in this

496
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 8: alternate reality to him that caused him to do this, well,

497
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 8: you know, then you have he wasn't thinking right and

498
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 8: wrong in that situation. There's no evidence whatsoever that this

499
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 8: I was planning this. Did he plan to buy the

500
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 8: wine bottle before the show and do I mean before

501
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 8: the dinner so he can hit her over the head

502
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 8: with it. No, none of that is there.

503
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: Did he planted under the law once again, you are

504
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: contorting the law to suit your purposes.

505
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: Again, that degree a premeditation is not required.

506
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: The only degree of premeditation can be formed in seconds,

507
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: by the time it takes him to walk in the

508
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: kitchen and get the wine bottle and come back.

509
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: That's the last time.

510
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: Plus he stabbed her forty times.

511
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 1: Do I have to say, Jody Arias, Do I have

512
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: to raise up that.

513
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: Specter Jody Arias standing traumas Alexander twenty nine times then

514
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: shot him in the head, leaving him to decompose in

515
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: the shower's tall Just because you attacked someone multiple times

516
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: does not insanity make it makes you a killer, a

517
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: cold bloody killer.

518
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 8: That's what I started out with, that the act doesn't

519
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 8: make someone insane at all. The act is the outgrowth

520
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 8: of insanity. Sometimes when we have that killing someone, people

521
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 8: shooting up a school, that seems insane to all of

522
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 8: us because we wouldn't do it. But you know, under

523
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 8: the law, just because you did that doesn't mean you're insane.

524
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 8: You knew right from wrong. You shouldn't have done it.

525
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 8: We My point is, Jodyarius didn't take pictures and send it.

526
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 8: Jodyarius didn't act like this was no case, and she

527
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 8: got caught. She yes, she took pictures and she.

528
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: Busted. She did take pictures.

529
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 8: No, I understand that. I completely understand that she did.

530
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 8: Look how this guy acted in this case with the police,

531
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 8: that's not how someone that intends to commit murder acts.

532
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 8: They just don't.

533
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: They don't do that fighting. The police come in by

534
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: knowing enough to barrickade the door. More more evidence of guilt.

535
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: You know what, let me jog your memory as to

536
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: the real facts, not the facts in Greg Morse's world,

537
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: but the actual facts from the police reports.

538
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 4: Meyer decides to try and turn things around in his

539
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 4: marriage by preparing a Valentine's Day dinner with a theme

540
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 4: bring Paris to You. Pulling out all the stops, Meyer

541
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 4: has their children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower to

542
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: decorate the table, buys Deborah a beautiful new dress, and

543
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 4: orders food from their favorite Japanese steakhouse. After a lovely dinner,

544
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: he gives his wife a Valentine's Day card with a

545
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 4: personal message, and they dance to their wedding song.

546
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 3: When the song ends and the dance is finished, Deborah

547
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: Meyer doesn't give her husband the reaction he wants and

548
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: they begin to argue.

549
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

550
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 4: After hitting his wife in the head with a glass

551
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: wine bottle several times, Taylor Meyer says Deborah was unconscious,

552
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 4: but he wasn't sure if she was dead, so.

553
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 3: He went into the kitchen and got a quote.

554
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: Big knife, a long one, and came back to her

555
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 4: while she is laid out on the floor and stabs

556
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 4: her over and over again in the chest. All told,

557
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: the thirty six year old mother of three, Deborah Meyer

558
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: is stabbed forty times after being beaten in the head

559
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 4: with a wine bottle.

560
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: It is her.

561
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: Trial lawyer at a palm beach describing how the husband

562
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: in this scenario now murder defendant Taylor Meyer says to police,

563
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if she was totally dead, so after

564
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: I beat her in the head with the wine bottle,

565
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: I went in the kitchen and got a quote his words,

566
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: not mine, big knife, a long one, and while she

567
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: laid on the floor, stabbed her over and over again

568
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: in the chest.

569
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: Joining me now is.

570
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: Renowned chief medical examiner from Terrance County.

571
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: That's fort Worth.

572
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,

573
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns. He's about to launch a hit podcast

574
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: called DOA Did on arrival April seven, Doctor Kendall Crowns,

575
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: could you describe what the victim endured after the first

576
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: blow with the thick end of a wine bottle?

577
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 12: Certainly so basically a bottle. When you're struck in the head,

578
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 12: the harder edge of the bottle will hit into your head,

579
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 12: causing contusions or bruises, tearing at the skin. Usually bottles

580
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 12: aren't heavy enough to break the skull, but they can

581
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 12: cause you to go unconscious or cause you to collapse.

582
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 12: You're going to have pain associated with that, headaches. But

583
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 12: if they beat you into unconsciousness, he's probably looking at

584
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 12: her still seeing she's breathing. I've seen that before where

585
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 12: they can't kill him with the wine bottle, so they

586
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 12: go switch up and find something else. He walked into

587
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 12: the kitchen, came back and then started stabbing where with

588
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 12: a knife. The fact that he stabbed her in the

589
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 12: chest over forty times, clustered all together is what we

590
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 12: call overkill. So she's obviously unconscious or subdued at that point,

591
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 12: and he just keeps stabbing her until she stops breathing.

592
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, after the first blow to the head

593
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: with a wine bottle, we have no evidence that the

594
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: wine bottle was broken, so that corroborates your theory as

595
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: to the nature of the first blow.

596
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: I believe, based on the fact the wine bottle.

597
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: Was still intact, that she was conscious and saw him

598
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: coming at her with a knife, lying there immobilized with

599
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: her children above her, asleep in bed, she sees her

600
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: husband approach her with a knife and the stabbing begins.

601
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: Is that scenario feasible, Doctor Kendall Crowns.

602
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 12: Yes, that is a possibility that she could still have

603
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 12: been conscious. She could have been trying to fake that

604
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 12: she was conscious. There's also a possibility that when he

605
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 12: beats her to the ground with the wine bottle, that

606
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 12: he could have jumped on her back, breaking her spinal column.

607
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 12: If the many possibilities, and that could leave her paralyzed.

608
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 12: And so she could still be conscious and see him

609
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 12: approaching with the knife and not be able to do

610
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 12: anything about it.

611
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: She was stabbed forty times for zero with a quote

612
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: big kitchen knife quote eight long one. Obviously, she died

613
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: from bleeding out. So explain to me if she was

614
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: not killed in the initial stabs, what would she have endured.

615
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: As she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest, so it's

616
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: going to.

617
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 12: Take her a few minutes to bleed out from the

618
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 12: stab wounds. So each stab wound that he is able

619
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 12: to deliver is going to cause pain from the cutting

620
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 12: of the skin and the sing of the organs with

621
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 12: the knife, and then the fact that she's being stabbed

622
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 12: in the chest and could collapse lungs making it difficult

623
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 12: for her to breathe. She could also be coughing blood

624
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 12: up and then swallowing the blood, so she's getting blood

625
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 12: in her mouth and hailing the blood, gagging while she's

626
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 12: being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she

627
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 12: finally bleeds out after a few minutes. Granted forty stab wounds,

628
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 12: he could probably deliver those in that entire timeframe that

629
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 12: it takes her to bleed out.

630
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 4: Officers are shocked to learn that husband Taylor Meyer took

631
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 4: pictures of his wife's lifeless body and sent it to

632
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 4: Deborah's friend and coworker who called nine one one. Meyer

633
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 4: also texted his wife's family and friends, saying I killed

634
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 4: Debbie because she's a cheating, lying bitch. Meyer says wife

635
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 4: just didn't give a shit about the Paris themed date

636
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 4: he planned.

637
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 3: And Indiana man sent photos to an alleged lover after

638
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: a Balentine's Day dinner went sour. What's next for the

639
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 3: father of three?

640
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: Let me understand what I'm hearing that he actually tells

641
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: police that.

642
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: He murdered his wife because she quote just didn't.

643
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: Give it about his Paris theme dinner, and Christina Ohio

644
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: joining a Salem news channel. He wrote the relatives, sent

645
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: her relatives a picture of her bludgeoned, stamped body and

646
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: said I killed Debbie because.

647
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: She is a cheating line. Is that right?

648
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 6: Yes, that is correct.

649
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: He did that.

650
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 6: He sent it to the coworker saying it's your fault.

651
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 6: And what's interesting is while he was speaking to police,

652
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 6: all of it just revealed in the abba.

653
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: David, he was almost trying.

654
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 6: To get them on his side, like explaining, you understand right,

655
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 6: she did this to me. This was the hardest I've

656
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 6: ever tried, he said, And if the hardest you've ever

657
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 6: tried is buying address taking your wife out to dinner,

658
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 6: it's pretty indicative of how much effort you put into

659
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 6: the relationship over the last four years.

660
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 7: But he was.

661
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 6: Literally explaining to the cops like they were boys, like

662
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 6: they were friends. This is why I did it. Can't

663
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 6: you understand she did this to me? She didn't care.

664
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 6: I worked so hard on the celebration and she just

665
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 6: didn't care.

666
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong, Christina, But I understood he

667
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: did not take her out to dinner that they ordered

668
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: delivery Japanese delivery.

669
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 6: Well, according to the what I read in the AffA David,

670
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 6: it wasn't clear on if they went out or ordered in.

671
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 6: It was that he got her a dinner from their

672
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 6: favorite Japanese steakhouse.

673
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: To go with their Paris theme night. Okay, uh, Doctor

674
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, help me out here. I killed Debbie because

675
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: she is a cheating line.

676
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:37,439
Speaker 1: You know what?

677
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: He might as well fill that in with I killed

678
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: Debbie because she made tacos, not enchiladas. There's always a

679
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: reason why the woman deserves to be murdered. Have you

680
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: noticed that talks to agree with him? She's such a

681
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: hoe she's a liar, she's a cheater. She goes on

682
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: and on, she did this, she did that, I had.

683
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: To kill her. Well, they're going to agree, and even

684
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: Father of the Year, you know, Nancy.

685
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 5: Probably what was happening leading up to this too, was

686
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 5: that he was calling coworkers and family members and trying

687
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 5: to recruit everybody to be on his side. Because this

688
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 5: just spills over when he starts to talk to the police.

689
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 5: He probably feels very beleaguered by her, and it's very

690
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 5: common for these types of men to invest very little

691
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 5: into the relationship but expect everything back from the house

692
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 5: from the spouse. So he just orders up a steak dinner.

693
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 1: He doesn't cook.

694
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 5: Perhaps he doesn't even take her to the restaurant, buys

695
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 5: her probably a horror stress, makes her dance to the music.

696
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 5: But he expects all these accolades and all this praise

697
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 5: from her. So it's almost like when you ask your

698
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 5: child to set the table for dinner and they just

699
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 5: do something really small like set a plate down, they

700
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 5: think they deserve so much a praise because that's where

701
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 5: they are developmentally. Well, these domestic abusers are caught developmentally

702
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 5: at that same phase of life. Where they just invest

703
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 5: the tiniest, teensiest little bit and when they don't get

704
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 5: all the praise they want, all help breaks lose.

705
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: To Greg Morse, believe it or not, I'm giving you

706
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: the final argument.

707
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: Hit me, well, it is.

708
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 8: This is not all of these factors and inferences you're

709
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 8: making to show premeditation. He's controlling. He's a domestic abuser.

710
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 8: So let's suppose there is no murder and we hear

711
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 8: this guy does this. It's just a story. A Paris

712
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 8: theme night. What a romantic thing he tried to bring

713
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 8: his wife Paris. How nice. So my point is he's

714
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 8: not acting like someone who planned this. If he was

715
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 8: aggressive in an abuser the whole night, when she leaves

716
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 8: for twenty minutes, why does she come back? You would

717
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 8: have seen signs of that. My point is, insanity can

718
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 8: come up below the surface and it can be there.

719
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 8: And having the appointment in three days lends me to

720
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 8: believe that this was not planned. This was something unless

721
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 8: you believe he planned the appointment to show that he

722
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 8: really loved his wife and was trying and tried to

723
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 8: set up an insanity the defense. But it's a horrible outcome.

724
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 8: It's a difficult case to defend. Don't get me wrong,

725
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 8: it is very challenging. But I think mental illness is

726
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 8: a lot more prevalent in relationships. And I've talked about

727
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 8: this on TV and cases I've had before, and this

728
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 8: is the outgrowth of it, and it does create This

729
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 8: guy was living in his own reality, you know.

730
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: Shannon Henry joining me present, founder of SAS Surviving Assault

731
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: Standing Strong. If what he just said was true, they

732
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 2: would empty out every jail in the country because everybody

733
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 2: would say I had a mental illness. I was angry,

734
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: that's right.

735
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 9: And she came back because she had kids there and

736
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 9: she's a good mom. His last attempt to get help

737
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 9: was to kill her. Hers was to go to therapy.

738
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 9: And I do want to say she was a nurse

739
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 9: to Greg. She was a nurse. She knew exactly what

740
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 9: was happening to her body when it was happening, and

741
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 9: he knew that she would understand that experience too. So

742
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 9: while he may not have physically hit her before this day,

743
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 9: and there may not be police reports, he abused her

744
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 9: for years by doing his best to break her down

745
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 9: with infidelity and isolation and insecurity and by the way,

746
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 9: you can be depressed. You can be a psychopath, you

747
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 9: can be a narcissist without being an abuser, and I

748
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 9: want you to know I would never you would never

749
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 9: be able to hire me, and if I did come,

750
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 9: I would be honored to clarify that the abused women

751
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 9: endure at the hands of unprincipled lawyers like you is awful,

752
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 9: just awful, And shame on you for trying to make

753
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 9: it clear that this person is insane when he's clearly not.

754
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 9: He knew what he was doing from start to finish,

755
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 9: from the dress to the stabbing, and then he bragged

756
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 9: about it.

757
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,