WEBVTT - Chapter 28: Abortion Is Healthcare with California Latinas for Reproductive Justice 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:07.160 Have you ever heard of reproductive justice? Yeah, that's like abortions, right. 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:09.879 Well yeah, but there's so much more to it. 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.680 Dehmate Pico. Okay, I'm listening. 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:23.720 Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:29.040 S Hi, Senora. 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.960 Welcome to Senora sex Ed Senora Sex Said is not 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.239 your Mommy sex Talk. This show is la platica like 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.560 you've never heard it before. With each episode, we're breaking 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.920 the stigma and silence around sex and sexuality in LATINX communities. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.760 Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:55.640 denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.920 Latinas from gen X to Gen Z, covering everything from 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.880 puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.400 Just a reminder that in this show, a Senora is 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.679 a woman with a lot of life experiences and stories 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.640 to share. Maybe she's in her thirties, maybe she's in 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.600 her forties or fifties or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:19.600 she sits. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.880 We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala. 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.160 You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokatra Radio. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.919 Since twenty sixteen, we've covered all kinds of topics, ranging 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:36.400 from politics, to mental health, current events, and of course sex. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.319 We still have so much to learn, though, and we 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.360 hope you listen to each episode with the Senoras and 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:51.919 Senoritas in Your Life, Chapter twenty eight, abortion is Healthcare. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:01.280 In today's episode, we sit down with virgin She is 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.280 the daughter of Mexican parents who grew up in the 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:09.760 barrios of northeast Los Angeles. She is a mother, daughter, sister, 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.120 and wife who believes in the power of stories to 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:19.880 heal and to liberate. Virginia shares her experience accessing abortion 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.800 care at the age of seventeen and later at forty eight. 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:29.200 She also shares what sexual education looked like in the 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:34.600 nineteen seventies and how she got involved with California Latinas 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:42.239 for Reproductive Justice. Here's our interview with Virginia. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.720 It's a wonderful. It's just an honor to be here 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.080 and be able to talk about these important issues. Quite 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:50.480 often we don't share in public. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.160 On Senora Sex said, we love to start by asking 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.240 what did conversations around sex and sexuality look like for 0:02:58.320 --> 0:02:59.119 you growing up. 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.600 Well, I think it's important to note my birth year, 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.080 So I was born in nineteen sixty two, which was 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.680 you know, pre Roe v. Wade. And I was born 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:16.000 to a mother who she wasn't conventional, but she did 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:21.000 have some values about sex and sex before marriage, and 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.240 she thought it was really taboo. So she wanted to 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:31.600 educate me about what sex was and menstruation. But I 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.520 think she wanted to she really emphasized that sex was 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.440 something that occurred in the marriage relationship, and so we 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:44.880 didn't really have conversations about relationships, or about passion, or 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:51.320 about sexuality, or about even pleasure. That I didn't learn until, 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.640 I would say, even way in my forties, because those 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.680 conversations just were taboo, and so I didn't really feel 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.840 comfort with my body until you know, I was or 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.320 I already had children, and I started to hang out 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.080 with young people who had a different perspective. So people 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.200 who were born more in the seventies and eighties had 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:17.400 a more open worldview and a more nuanced understanding about 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.960 their sexuality. So I learned a lot from them. 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:26.280 What were some of the things that you learned from them. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:30.400 About masturbation, about self pleasure, about how it's possible to 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.760 self pleasure, which is something I didn't really grow up 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.240 learning about I thought that that had to come from 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.799 the outside, from external, from another person, and not something 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.400 that I could do for myself. So that's what they 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:44.800 taught me. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:50.320 Do you remember when you learned like about pleasure and masturbation. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.640 Was there a specific person, a specific moment that comes 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:54.080 to mind? 0:04:54.720 --> 0:05:00.159 Absolutely. I don't want to name this person, but I 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.280 was in a reading group with a bunch of like 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.560 twenty something women. I was like the grandmother of the group, 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:16.080 and they had real open conversations about masturbation, about vibrators, 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:24.159 about self pleasure. And this was probably ten ten years ago, 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.680 and it had a huge impact on me after that. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.840 Based on your experience growing up and the information your 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.039 mother gave you, and maybe any sex that you learned 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:39.760 in school or from friends, did you approach your first 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.440 sexual experience with an understanding that pleasure with something that 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:44.839 you deserved and should receive. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:50.040 Not at all. No, I didn't really. I wasn't really 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:55.960 interested in sex until maybe in my early twenties. Although 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.159 I did have my search sexual experience when I was seventeen, 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.480 but it was be from peer pressure. It was because 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.279 everybody was having sex and I felt like I had to, 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.600 Like Mark, that box. But it's not like I was 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.400 having these you know, sensations that I wanted to or 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.320 or really a strong desire to. So I can't say 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.119 that it was a pot I really cared about the person, 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.480 but I can't say that it was pleasurable. And that 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.359 didn't come until I was a bit older and I 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.719 started to learn a little bit more about asking for 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.480 what I needed and what I wanted. So that came 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.560 with time and came with you know, each relationship and 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.520 each experience. But that that, I mean, I just can't 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:50.480 emphasize enough, you know, the self part of it, because 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.760 we don't think. We grow up thinking that it has 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.520 to come from someone else has to give us something 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.160 and we have to give them something, and we don't. 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.640 We don't learn that there are things we can do 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.080 for ourselves that are really important and worthy and valuable 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:06.000 and satisfying. 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.760 Can you just describe what you have here in front 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.600 of us, and like where it came from. 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.200 So my mother, she's a huge fan of Anne Landers, 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.520 and so she gave us I have two sisters, so 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.760 these were used by my oldest sister and me, and 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:32.320 then my younger sister. She gave advice about all sorts 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.320 of issues and problems people were having, and my mom 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.800 really looked to her because she was wise enough to 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:40.960 know she didn't want to replicate what her mother had 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:45.880 taught her, and so she looked to who was popular 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.440 at the time to give advice. And so she gave 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.840 me something called teenage Sex and ten Ways to Cool It. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:58.240 And I just realized that she was preaching abstinence, you know, 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.880 and looking back at this, it was published in nineteen 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.120 sixty five, and looking back at it, I can see 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.800 that she was trying to teach me how to control 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.920 myself and how not to feel, you know, all my 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.880 emotions and all my desires. And my mother saved these booklets. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.400 When I helped her clean out her garage. She we 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.080 came upon these, and I decided to keep them because 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.440 they're such a marker of a time period that honestly, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.240 I thought had passed. But now I feel like, you know, 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.560 people want to take us back to this period where 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:37.080 we are, where our sexuality is repressed. 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.880 We hope you're enjoying this conversation. Stay tuned. There's more 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:44.520 to come. 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.040 And we're back. We hope you enjoyed the break and 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:52.959 are ready to listen to the rest. 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.679 So how did you get involved with working with c LRJ, 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.400 the California Latinus for Reproductive Justice and what does your 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.400 work look like now with them. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.000 I got involved with the California Latinas for Reproductive Justice 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.760 when I was working on the documentary film No Mas Bevez. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:17.600 We were looking for an organizational partner who could inform 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.719 us about the topics we were addressing and perhaps use 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.840 the film for the work that they were doing to 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.760 promote bodily autonomy. We were also interested in looking at 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.280 because the film looks at the unwanted for sterilizations of 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.199 Mexican women at the La County Hospital in the nineteen seventies, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.679 and we were looking to put this history, this tragic history, 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.439 in the reproductive justice framework that cier l r J 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.840 advocates for. So the idea that you want to protect 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.560 women's right to terminate a pregnancy at the same time 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:50.880 protect their right to have as many children as they 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.480 want to and to have them in a safe and 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.120 healthy environment amazing. 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:59.240 And Nomas Bevez was a big deal when it came out, 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.560 and I think it was very groundbreaking diving into that 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.679 history that unless you maybe like study Chicano Studies or 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.360 you're from La May. You may have never heard about 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.240 the sterilization program that took place here in California. What 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.280 was your role in the documentary and how did it 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:19.320 come to be. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:22.320 I learned about that case even though I grew up 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.160 in La born and raised in Los Angeles. I learned 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.160 about the case when I was a graduate student and 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.640 I was working with doctor Vicki Deuis, who is a 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:35.200 Chicano historian, and she taught that history. So I wanted 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.040 to learn more about it because I was so appalled 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:42.280 and angered that the county hospital is two miles from 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:46.520 where I live, and I had not learned about all 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:51.200 the activism around this. I was definitely appalled about the 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:55.800 abuse and the violation, but also about not learning of 0:10:55.840 --> 0:11:00.880 the heroism that the women who challenged the hospital engaged 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.920 in their heroism, their activism, their bravery, and then the 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.760 chic got a feminists who were a part of it. 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:13.320 Was really a dynamic history. But I wasn't satisfied with 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.959 just writing about it. I was really wanted. I really 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.719 wanted to bring this history to a wider public, and 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.720 just by luck, I live very close to the director 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.480 Rene Tajimapenya and just by luck, we both had two 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:31.719 young babies we were taking care of, so we met 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.880 because of our kids and we would organize play dates 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.720 and then talk about our work and what we hope 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.480 to do once our kids were a little bit older. 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.040 So she said, this would make an amazing documentary, and 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.760 that's how I got involved in making the film. 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.080 I love that that's such a great detail that it 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:53.440 was like working mothers and how y'all connected in that way. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:58.000 How does your personal story connect to CLRJ and your 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:58.640 role there. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.760 One of the questions we asked whenever we get together 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.640 with our board members or with staff for our retreats 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.880 is like, how did you come to RJ? What's your 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.760 understanding of RJ? And a lot of us come to 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:20.120 these issues not from a theoretical perspective, but actually from 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:26.160 experiencing something. And in my case, I learned about abortion 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.559 in when my best friend from high school got pregnant 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.400 and she definitely did not want to have children. She 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:39.080 was only fifteen and her mother was very much a 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:43.400 fundamentalist Christian and she was so terrified that her mother 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.240 would just I don't know what she was afraid of. 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.520 Because it was really nice, but she didn't want to 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.160 hurt her mother, I guess, And so we had a 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.480 network of women who just helped us figure out how 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.040 she could get pregnant, I mean, how she could terminate 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.480 that pregnancy. We had a network of women who could 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.800 figure out where she could get the money, who would 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:08.000 give her a ride, who would pick her up where 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.840 she would go, and it was so beautiful and so easy, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.000 and it was just something that taught me about community 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.320 and about how we don't always need our mothers to 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.840 help us out in situations like that, and that there's 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.960 other people who are going to help us. And then 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.760 so that changed my perspective. I was probably anti abortion 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:38.440 before then because I believed that the rhetoric about murder 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.320 that is a person, and I had to educate myself 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.880 and re educate myself about it. I had an abortion 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.720 when I was seventeen, and then I had another abortion 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:52.480 when I was forty eight, So both times I just 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:53.600 didn't want to have a child. 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.320 And at the top of the interview, you described that 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.640 your first sexual sperience as coming about because of peer pressure. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:08.160 So I'm wondering, like the did you feel pressure to 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.920 have the abortion to keep it where they're outside influences 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:16.480 in that decision as well. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.000 You know, it's really interesting because we talked about our 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.960 sexual experiences, but we never talked about controlling our like 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.000 finding a way to control to use birth control, finding 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.000 birth control. Nobody was having that conversation. You know, we 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.600 were talking. They were talking about positions and where to 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.280 do it, and you know, all of these all of 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.920 this information, but not like how do you prevent a pregnancy? 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.120 And so I got pregnant pretty quickly after the first 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:46.880 time I had sex, and I, I guess for the 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.880 same reasons my friend had an abortion. I was terrified 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.560 of my parents and what they would say, and I 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.800 didn't want to embarrass myself. I didn't want to embarrass them. 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.360 And I also did not want to be a mother. 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.760 At that time, I was not headed to college. I 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.240 had just graduated from high school. I didn't know what 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.960 I was going to do with my life, and I 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.880 wasn't really in love with my boyfriend in that way 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.880 to make that kind of commitment like let's have a 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:17.240 kid and it's I didn't feel that, and I didn't 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.000 feel pressure to have a baby. No, And I think 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.320 my friend's experience taught me that you can go on 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.640 and have a happy life after an abortion. It's possible. 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.200 I love that. I love that you said that. What 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:36.160 was your experience the same wherein you knew who to 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.200 call and there was like a community and network of 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.920 women mobilizing. Did you also have that same experience. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.880 Exact same experience, except I went with my boyfriend took me. 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.240 He was driving, he had a car, so he went 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.560 with me. But I did go to the same place 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.360 where we got public assistance, so I didn't have to, 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:56.880 you know, get money from my parents or use my 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:02.040 health insurance. And I believe I went to the ex 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.560 exact same clinic that she went to where she had hers. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.000 How was it similar or different in when you had 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:10.040 it later in life? 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.960 Oh gosh, my doctor told me, she said, when we 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.080 were preparing when I found out I was pregnant, I 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.360 knew right away I didn't want to keep it, and 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.840 my doctor said, okay, well you can go here, but 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.160 I just want you to know that there are probably 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.800 going to be protesters out in front. And that didn't 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.560 happen in the seventies. There were no protesters, There were 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.960 no people screaming at you. And this is you know, 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:39.560 I had my abortion in Glendale, and that's not an 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.040 I mean, it's Glendale's kind of conservative, I guess, but 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:47.920 it's not. It's California. It's not a place where there 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.040 are a lot of anti abortion people. There's a lot 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.480 of people who are who advocate for the right to 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.880 terminate a pregnancy. And there were people yelling, and there 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:02.440 were people with large posters of fetuses, bloody fetuses, And 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.960 it was really a painful experience because my parents took me. 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.000 My husband was living, he was working in Oregon, he 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.800 was working in a different state, and I didn't really 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.520 want to share it with a lot of people. I 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.640 was a little embarrassed, you know, getting pregnant at forty eight, 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.320 knowing what I know, you know, being educated, knowing about 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.720 birth control. I was a little embarrassed. And so my 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.800 parents took me, and they were very uncomfortable because they 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.480 they don't know where they stand on the issue, because 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.760 of their Catholicism. And it wasn't a pleasant experience. It 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.879 wasn't like going to a place where someone's going to 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.720 take care of you and nurture you and hold your 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:51.199 hand and comfort you. It was very clinical, and then 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.600 they they made an error. They didn't clean me out completely, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.320 so it was just a really bad experience. I honestly 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.359 had a better experien when I was seventeen than I 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:03.640 did when I was forty eight. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.880 This is really fascinating. So both from personal experience, first 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.439 person observation, and all the work that you've done in 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.719 the space, do you think we've made progress in this area? 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:23.320 I feel like we are. Because of the anti movement, 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.480 doctors are afraid to perform this service, and what I 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.960 learned with the film is that medical schools do not 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:37.520 teach their students how to perform an abortion. They have 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.159 to ask for it or advocate it. It's not something 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.560 that's on the curriculum, So you don't have enough people 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:49.200 actually providing the service, and there's so much stigma around 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.040 it that it's almost I feel like I feel like 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.320 that abortion I had was kind of similar to a 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:03.919 back alley abortion because it was not in a very 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.919 it was in a kind of a rundown facility. And 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.879 even though I have really good insurance, I feel like 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.399 we're not celebrating this as part of our reproductive health 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.840 or part of our If you have a vagina, part 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.280 of the health for those people who have a vagina, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.919 it's not part of our It's not seen as something 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.720 that's just a part of who we are, like getting 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:31.439 a mammogram. 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.480 Do you think that some of the shame attached to 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:41.199 abortion is coming from these external factors as opposed to 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.000 like a true, genuine internal feeling. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.160 The shame that I had, or just. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.919 In general when people feel that about getting this procedure done. 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.520 Yeah, because we don't have enough. I feel like we 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.440 don't have enough advocates. And I can understand why people 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.480 have been killed for performing abortions. People are going to 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:02.960 jail now for performing abortions. So I can see how 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:09.199 people or doctors, medical professionals are not out there advocating 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.919 for this and publicizing that they do it. But we 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.240 really need that, We really need to destigmatize how we 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.960 see it, and we need to make it safe for 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:25.359 people to have this service. I know that the film 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.320 in the film in the mas Babs, we feature the 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.600 whistle blowing doctor, doctor Bernard Rosenfeldt, who alerted the public 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.920 to what was taking place at the La County Hospital. 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.880 He's still I'm not sure if he can legally now, 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.760 but he was performing abortions when we were when we 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.240 interviewed him, So he's like one of the few doctors 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.200 who was still doing that because it can be dangerous 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.400 in some places, and now it's illegal. 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:55.240 My follow up question for you is about this decision 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.520 that you made at forty eight, because there's I think 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.800 this image that we have of who receives an abortion, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.520 maybe a young girl, a teenager, but I think the 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.000 statistic shows that it's also women who are already mothers. 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.200 And so I'm wondering how you came to that decision. 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.360 And you said you told your parents, and so that's 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.000 very different from than your story when you were seventeen, right, 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:21.639 So just wondering how you can reflect on that and 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.560 how you look back on that experience now. 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:31.240 Well, being forty eight, I didn't think it was possible 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.520 to get pregnant, Honestly. I wasn't being very careful, and 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.120 it's not like my husband was living he was living 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.199 part time in Oregon, so it's not like we were 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.960 having a lot of sex, and so it was real 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:49.480 shock to become pregnant. And then I was already having 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.840 pelvic floor issues from my second child, and then I 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.159 had a third child, so I was really worried if 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.000 my body could handle it, Like, what's going to happen? 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:02.240 You know, I put on a lot of weight when 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:04.280 I get pregnant, I put on fifty pounds. It's like, 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:08.840 what's going to happen to my pelvic floor? And also 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.920 I had a fifteen year old and a twelve year 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.080 old and a seven year old at the time, and 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.480 those were really heavy years because I was, you know, 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.320 kind of a single mom at points with my husband away. 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.159 I just couldn't see myself having another child. And then 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.479 I also thought, well, what if it's not viable, Like 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.639 what if I lose it at four months or five months? 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.320 I don't want to go through that experience. So there 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:40.200 were so many reasons why it wasn't financial we could 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.320 have afforded to have another kid. It was because of 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.400 my age, and because of my kids, and because of 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:50.520 my body. But also I think it's really important. I 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.639 would really like for us to normalize not having to 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.879 justify why we make that decision. This is a great conversation, 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.080 so I'm really happy to share. But I feel like 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.200 for some people it should just be enough that they 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:08.520 just didn't want to have a kid. 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:13.199 You know, oh, absolutely absolutely, And I think for us 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.119 it is important to normalize that you can have an 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:20.040 abortion later in life, that it's not just the young 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.879 teenager that maybe didn't know to use birth control, but 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.800 actually it can happen at any age, right, And I 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.320 think that there's not enough stories of those diverse experiences. 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.479 I don't know anyone who got pregnant fort that just 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:35.920 seemed so it's good to talk about it, and it's 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.040 good to share that it is possible, so you should 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:42.240 use your precautions if you don't want to be pregnant. 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:47.240 And in the waiting room where I had the abortion 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:52.240 later in life, it was packed. There were probably would 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:57.359 say forty people in there from all ages, very young too. 0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:58.960 I thought I was going to be the oldest person, 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:01.960 and I wasn't. There were some people that were, well 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:04.000 they might have been my age, and you know, looked 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.800 a little older. So I thought that was really interesting 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:09.200 as well. It's such a needed service. 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:12.440 Yeah, and I love the point that you make about 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:15.800 you know, we can give all these reasons for why 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:18.399 we need this abortion, or we could just say I 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.639 just don't want to. We don't need to justify and 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.960 in some ways isn't that very basic? I just don't 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.560 want to, Like the most important reason of all. Money 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.520 can change, things can change in life, you can move 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:34.600 things around, But just not wanting to should be the 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.080 ultimate reason exactly. 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:38.520 I couldn't agree more. 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:39.639 So. 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:43.359 You talked about the stigma, right, and how that maybe 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:47.080 prevents people from seeking care. How did you feel supported 0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:52.960 by maybe your community or your family, your parents when 0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:55.600 you decided to exercise your right to choose. 0:24:57.080 --> 0:24:58.840