1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of reproductive justice? Yeah, that's like abortions, right.

2
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,879
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but there's so much more to it.

3
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: Dehmate Pico. Okay, I'm listening.

4
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 3: Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora.

5
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 1: S Hi, Senora.

6
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,960
Speaker 2: Welcome to Senora sex Ed Senora Sex Said is not

7
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,239
Speaker 2: your Mommy sex Talk. This show is la platica like

8
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,560
Speaker 2: you've never heard it before. With each episode, we're breaking

9
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,920
Speaker 2: the stigma and silence around sex and sexuality in LATINX communities.

10
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 1: Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously

11
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,640
Speaker 1: denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between

12
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 1: Latinas from gen X to Gen Z, covering everything from

13
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,880
Speaker 1: puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music.

14
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,400
Speaker 2: Just a reminder that in this show, a Senora is

15
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,679
Speaker 2: a woman with a lot of life experiences and stories

16
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,640
Speaker 2: to share. Maybe she's in her thirties, maybe she's in

17
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 2: her forties or fifties or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe

18
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 2: she sits.

19
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 1: We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala.

20
00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 2: You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokatra Radio.

21
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,919
Speaker 2: Since twenty sixteen, we've covered all kinds of topics, ranging

22
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,400
Speaker 2: from politics, to mental health, current events, and of course sex.

23
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,319
Speaker 2: We still have so much to learn, though, and we

24
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 2: hope you listen to each episode with the Senoras and

25
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:51,919
Speaker 2: Senoritas in Your Life, Chapter twenty eight, abortion is Healthcare.

26
00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,280
Speaker 2: In today's episode, we sit down with virgin She is

27
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 2: the daughter of Mexican parents who grew up in the

28
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 2: barrios of northeast Los Angeles. She is a mother, daughter, sister,

29
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 2: and wife who believes in the power of stories to

30
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 2: heal and to liberate. Virginia shares her experience accessing abortion

31
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,800
Speaker 2: care at the age of seventeen and later at forty eight.

32
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 2: She also shares what sexual education looked like in the

33
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies and how she got involved with California Latinas

34
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:42,239
Speaker 2: for Reproductive Justice. Here's our interview with Virginia.

35
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,720
Speaker 4: It's a wonderful. It's just an honor to be here

36
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,080
Speaker 4: and be able to talk about these important issues. Quite

37
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 4: often we don't share in public.

38
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: On Senora Sex said, we love to start by asking

39
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,240
Speaker 1: what did conversations around sex and sexuality look like for

40
00:02:58,320 --> 00:02:59,119
Speaker 1: you growing up.

41
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's important to note my birth year,

42
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,080
Speaker 4: So I was born in nineteen sixty two, which was

43
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 4: you know, pre Roe v. Wade. And I was born

44
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 4: to a mother who she wasn't conventional, but she did

45
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 4: have some values about sex and sex before marriage, and

46
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,240
Speaker 4: she thought it was really taboo. So she wanted to

47
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:31,600
Speaker 4: educate me about what sex was and menstruation. But I

48
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 4: think she wanted to she really emphasized that sex was

49
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,440
Speaker 4: something that occurred in the marriage relationship, and so we

50
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,880
Speaker 4: didn't really have conversations about relationships, or about passion, or

51
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:51,320
Speaker 4: about sexuality, or about even pleasure. That I didn't learn until,

52
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 4: I would say, even way in my forties, because those

53
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 4: conversations just were taboo, and so I didn't really feel

54
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 4: comfort with my body until you know, I was or

55
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 4: I already had children, and I started to hang out

56
00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,080
Speaker 4: with young people who had a different perspective. So people

57
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 4: who were born more in the seventies and eighties had

58
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,400
Speaker 4: a more open worldview and a more nuanced understanding about

59
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 4: their sexuality. So I learned a lot from them.

60
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:26,280
Speaker 2: What were some of the things that you learned from them.

61
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:30,400
Speaker 4: About masturbation, about self pleasure, about how it's possible to

62
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 4: self pleasure, which is something I didn't really grow up

63
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 4: learning about I thought that that had to come from

64
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,799
Speaker 4: the outside, from external, from another person, and not something

65
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 4: that I could do for myself. So that's what they

66
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:44,800
Speaker 4: taught me.

67
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 1: Do you remember when you learned like about pleasure and masturbation.

68
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,640
Speaker 1: Was there a specific person, a specific moment that comes

69
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: to mind?

70
00:04:54,720 --> 00:05:00,159
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I don't want to name this person, but I

71
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,280
Speaker 4: was in a reading group with a bunch of like

72
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 4: twenty something women. I was like the grandmother of the group,

73
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 4: and they had real open conversations about masturbation, about vibrators,

74
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 4: about self pleasure. And this was probably ten ten years ago,

75
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 4: and it had a huge impact on me after that.

76
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 2: Based on your experience growing up and the information your

77
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,039
Speaker 2: mother gave you, and maybe any sex that you learned

78
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 2: in school or from friends, did you approach your first

79
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 2: sexual experience with an understanding that pleasure with something that

80
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:44,839
Speaker 2: you deserved and should receive.

81
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,040
Speaker 4: Not at all. No, I didn't really. I wasn't really

82
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 4: interested in sex until maybe in my early twenties. Although

83
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 4: I did have my search sexual experience when I was seventeen,

84
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,480
Speaker 4: but it was be from peer pressure. It was because

85
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,279
Speaker 4: everybody was having sex and I felt like I had to,

86
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,600
Speaker 4: Like Mark, that box. But it's not like I was

87
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,400
Speaker 4: having these you know, sensations that I wanted to or

88
00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 4: or really a strong desire to. So I can't say

89
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,119
Speaker 4: that it was a pot I really cared about the person,

90
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,480
Speaker 4: but I can't say that it was pleasurable. And that

91
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,359
Speaker 4: didn't come until I was a bit older and I

92
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,719
Speaker 4: started to learn a little bit more about asking for

93
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 4: what I needed and what I wanted. So that came

94
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 4: with time and came with you know, each relationship and

95
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 4: each experience. But that that, I mean, I just can't

96
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,480
Speaker 4: emphasize enough, you know, the self part of it, because

97
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 4: we don't think. We grow up thinking that it has

98
00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,520
Speaker 4: to come from someone else has to give us something

99
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,160
Speaker 4: and we have to give them something, and we don't.

100
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,640
Speaker 4: We don't learn that there are things we can do

101
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,080
Speaker 4: for ourselves that are really important and worthy and valuable

102
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 4: and satisfying.

103
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: Can you just describe what you have here in front

104
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: of us, and like where it came from.

105
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 4: So my mother, she's a huge fan of Anne Landers,

106
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 4: and so she gave us I have two sisters, so

107
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 4: these were used by my oldest sister and me, and

108
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 4: then my younger sister. She gave advice about all sorts

109
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 4: of issues and problems people were having, and my mom

110
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 4: really looked to her because she was wise enough to

111
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 4: know she didn't want to replicate what her mother had

112
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 4: taught her, and so she looked to who was popular

113
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 4: at the time to give advice. And so she gave

114
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,840
Speaker 4: me something called teenage Sex and ten Ways to Cool It.

115
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 4: And I just realized that she was preaching abstinence, you know,

116
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,880
Speaker 4: and looking back at this, it was published in nineteen

117
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,120
Speaker 4: sixty five, and looking back at it, I can see

118
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 4: that she was trying to teach me how to control

119
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 4: myself and how not to feel, you know, all my

120
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 4: emotions and all my desires. And my mother saved these booklets.

121
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,400
Speaker 4: When I helped her clean out her garage. She we

122
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 4: came upon these, and I decided to keep them because

123
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,440
Speaker 4: they're such a marker of a time period that honestly,

124
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 4: I thought had passed. But now I feel like, you know,

125
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 4: people want to take us back to this period where

126
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:37,080
Speaker 4: we are, where our sexuality is repressed.

127
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 2: We hope you're enjoying this conversation. Stay tuned. There's more

128
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 2: to come.

129
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: And we're back. We hope you enjoyed the break and

130
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,959
Speaker 1: are ready to listen to the rest.

131
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,679
Speaker 2: So how did you get involved with working with c LRJ,

132
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,400
Speaker 2: the California Latinus for Reproductive Justice and what does your

133
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 2: work look like now with them.

134
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,000
Speaker 4: I got involved with the California Latinas for Reproductive Justice

135
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 4: when I was working on the documentary film No Mas Bevez.

136
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 4: We were looking for an organizational partner who could inform

137
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,719
Speaker 4: us about the topics we were addressing and perhaps use

138
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,840
Speaker 4: the film for the work that they were doing to

139
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 4: promote bodily autonomy. We were also interested in looking at

140
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 4: because the film looks at the unwanted for sterilizations of

141
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,199
Speaker 4: Mexican women at the La County Hospital in the nineteen seventies,

142
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,679
Speaker 4: and we were looking to put this history, this tragic history,

143
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,439
Speaker 4: in the reproductive justice framework that cier l r J

144
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,840
Speaker 4: advocates for. So the idea that you want to protect

145
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,560
Speaker 4: women's right to terminate a pregnancy at the same time

146
00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,880
Speaker 4: protect their right to have as many children as they

147
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 4: want to and to have them in a safe and

148
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 4: healthy environment amazing.

149
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 1: And Nomas Bevez was a big deal when it came out,

150
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,560
Speaker 1: and I think it was very groundbreaking diving into that

151
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,679
Speaker 1: history that unless you maybe like study Chicano Studies or

152
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: you're from La May. You may have never heard about

153
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 1: the sterilization program that took place here in California. What

154
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 1: was your role in the documentary and how did it

155
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 1: come to be.

156
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,320
Speaker 4: I learned about that case even though I grew up

157
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,160
Speaker 4: in La born and raised in Los Angeles. I learned

158
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 4: about the case when I was a graduate student and

159
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 4: I was working with doctor Vicki Deuis, who is a

160
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,200
Speaker 4: Chicano historian, and she taught that history. So I wanted

161
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 4: to learn more about it because I was so appalled

162
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 4: and angered that the county hospital is two miles from

163
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,520
Speaker 4: where I live, and I had not learned about all

164
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:51,200
Speaker 4: the activism around this. I was definitely appalled about the

165
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 4: abuse and the violation, but also about not learning of

166
00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 4: the heroism that the women who challenged the hospital engaged

167
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 4: in their heroism, their activism, their bravery, and then the

168
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 4: chic got a feminists who were a part of it.

169
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 4: Was really a dynamic history. But I wasn't satisfied with

170
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,959
Speaker 4: just writing about it. I was really wanted. I really

171
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,719
Speaker 4: wanted to bring this history to a wider public, and

172
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,720
Speaker 4: just by luck, I live very close to the director

173
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,480
Speaker 4: Rene Tajimapenya and just by luck, we both had two

174
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,719
Speaker 4: young babies we were taking care of, so we met

175
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 4: because of our kids and we would organize play dates

176
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 4: and then talk about our work and what we hope

177
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 4: to do once our kids were a little bit older.

178
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 4: So she said, this would make an amazing documentary, and

179
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 4: that's how I got involved in making the film.

180
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,080
Speaker 2: I love that that's such a great detail that it

181
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 2: was like working mothers and how y'all connected in that way.

182
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 2: How does your personal story connect to CLRJ and your

183
00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 2: role there.

184
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,760
Speaker 4: One of the questions we asked whenever we get together

185
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 4: with our board members or with staff for our retreats

186
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 4: is like, how did you come to RJ? What's your

187
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 4: understanding of RJ? And a lot of us come to

188
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:20,120
Speaker 4: these issues not from a theoretical perspective, but actually from

189
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 4: experiencing something. And in my case, I learned about abortion

190
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,559
Speaker 4: in when my best friend from high school got pregnant

191
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 4: and she definitely did not want to have children. She

192
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 4: was only fifteen and her mother was very much a

193
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,400
Speaker 4: fundamentalist Christian and she was so terrified that her mother

194
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 4: would just I don't know what she was afraid of.

195
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 4: Because it was really nice, but she didn't want to

196
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 4: hurt her mother, I guess, And so we had a

197
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,480
Speaker 4: network of women who just helped us figure out how

198
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 4: she could get pregnant, I mean, how she could terminate

199
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,480
Speaker 4: that pregnancy. We had a network of women who could

200
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,800
Speaker 4: figure out where she could get the money, who would

201
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,000
Speaker 4: give her a ride, who would pick her up where

202
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,840
Speaker 4: she would go, and it was so beautiful and so easy,

203
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,000
Speaker 4: and it was just something that taught me about community

204
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 4: and about how we don't always need our mothers to

205
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,840
Speaker 4: help us out in situations like that, and that there's

206
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,960
Speaker 4: other people who are going to help us. And then

207
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,760
Speaker 4: so that changed my perspective. I was probably anti abortion

208
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:38,440
Speaker 4: before then because I believed that the rhetoric about murder

209
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,320
Speaker 4: that is a person, and I had to educate myself

210
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 4: and re educate myself about it. I had an abortion

211
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,720
Speaker 4: when I was seventeen, and then I had another abortion

212
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,480
Speaker 4: when I was forty eight, So both times I just

213
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 4: didn't want to have a child.

214
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,320
Speaker 1: And at the top of the interview, you described that

215
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 1: your first sexual sperience as coming about because of peer pressure.

216
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,160
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering, like the did you feel pressure to

217
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,920
Speaker 1: have the abortion to keep it where they're outside influences

218
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 1: in that decision as well.

219
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 4: You know, it's really interesting because we talked about our

220
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 4: sexual experiences, but we never talked about controlling our like

221
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 4: finding a way to control to use birth control, finding

222
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 4: birth control. Nobody was having that conversation. You know, we

223
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,600
Speaker 4: were talking. They were talking about positions and where to

224
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 4: do it, and you know, all of these all of

225
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,920
Speaker 4: this information, but not like how do you prevent a pregnancy?

226
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 4: And so I got pregnant pretty quickly after the first

227
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,880
Speaker 4: time I had sex, and I, I guess for the

228
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 4: same reasons my friend had an abortion. I was terrified

229
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 4: of my parents and what they would say, and I

230
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 4: didn't want to embarrass myself. I didn't want to embarrass them.

231
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 4: And I also did not want to be a mother.

232
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,760
Speaker 4: At that time, I was not headed to college. I

233
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 4: had just graduated from high school. I didn't know what

234
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 4: I was going to do with my life, and I

235
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,880
Speaker 4: wasn't really in love with my boyfriend in that way

236
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 4: to make that kind of commitment like let's have a

237
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 4: kid and it's I didn't feel that, and I didn't

238
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,000
Speaker 4: feel pressure to have a baby. No, And I think

239
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 4: my friend's experience taught me that you can go on

240
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 4: and have a happy life after an abortion. It's possible.

241
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that you said that. What

242
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,160
Speaker 2: was your experience the same wherein you knew who to

243
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,200
Speaker 2: call and there was like a community and network of

244
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 2: women mobilizing. Did you also have that same experience.

245
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 4: Exact same experience, except I went with my boyfriend took me.

246
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 4: He was driving, he had a car, so he went

247
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 4: with me. But I did go to the same place

248
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 4: where we got public assistance, so I didn't have to,

249
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 4: you know, get money from my parents or use my

250
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 4: health insurance. And I believe I went to the ex

251
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 4: exact same clinic that she went to where she had hers.

252
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 2: How was it similar or different in when you had

253
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 2: it later in life?

254
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, my doctor told me, she said, when we

255
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 4: were preparing when I found out I was pregnant, I

256
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 4: knew right away I didn't want to keep it, and

257
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 4: my doctor said, okay, well you can go here, but

258
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 4: I just want you to know that there are probably

259
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 4: going to be protesters out in front. And that didn't

260
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 4: happen in the seventies. There were no protesters, There were

261
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 4: no people screaming at you. And this is you know,

262
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 4: I had my abortion in Glendale, and that's not an

263
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 4: I mean, it's Glendale's kind of conservative, I guess, but

264
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 4: it's not. It's California. It's not a place where there

265
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,040
Speaker 4: are a lot of anti abortion people. There's a lot

266
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 4: of people who are who advocate for the right to

267
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 4: terminate a pregnancy. And there were people yelling, and there

268
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 4: were people with large posters of fetuses, bloody fetuses, And

269
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 4: it was really a painful experience because my parents took me.

270
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 4: My husband was living, he was working in Oregon, he

271
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,800
Speaker 4: was working in a different state, and I didn't really

272
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 4: want to share it with a lot of people. I

273
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,640
Speaker 4: was a little embarrassed, you know, getting pregnant at forty eight,

274
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,320
Speaker 4: knowing what I know, you know, being educated, knowing about

275
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 4: birth control. I was a little embarrassed. And so my

276
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 4: parents took me, and they were very uncomfortable because they

277
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 4: they don't know where they stand on the issue, because

278
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 4: of their Catholicism. And it wasn't a pleasant experience. It

279
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 4: wasn't like going to a place where someone's going to

280
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 4: take care of you and nurture you and hold your

281
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,199
Speaker 4: hand and comfort you. It was very clinical, and then

282
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 4: they they made an error. They didn't clean me out completely,

283
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 4: so it was just a really bad experience. I honestly

284
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 4: had a better experien when I was seventeen than I

285
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,640
Speaker 4: did when I was forty eight.

286
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,880
Speaker 1: This is really fascinating. So both from personal experience, first

287
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,439
Speaker 1: person observation, and all the work that you've done in

288
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,719
Speaker 1: the space, do you think we've made progress in this area?

289
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 4: I feel like we are. Because of the anti movement,

290
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 4: doctors are afraid to perform this service, and what I

291
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 4: learned with the film is that medical schools do not

292
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 4: teach their students how to perform an abortion. They have

293
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,159
Speaker 4: to ask for it or advocate it. It's not something

294
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 4: that's on the curriculum, So you don't have enough people

295
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 4: actually providing the service, and there's so much stigma around

296
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 4: it that it's almost I feel like I feel like

297
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 4: that abortion I had was kind of similar to a

298
00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:03,919
Speaker 4: back alley abortion because it was not in a very

299
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 4: it was in a kind of a rundown facility. And

300
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,879
Speaker 4: even though I have really good insurance, I feel like

301
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 4: we're not celebrating this as part of our reproductive health

302
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 4: or part of our If you have a vagina, part

303
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 4: of the health for those people who have a vagina,

304
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 4: it's not part of our It's not seen as something

305
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 4: that's just a part of who we are, like getting

306
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:31,439
Speaker 4: a mammogram.

307
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 1: Do you think that some of the shame attached to

308
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 1: abortion is coming from these external factors as opposed to

309
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 1: like a true, genuine internal feeling.

310
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 4: The shame that I had, or just.

311
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,919
Speaker 1: In general when people feel that about getting this procedure done.

312
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, because we don't have enough. I feel like we

313
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 4: don't have enough advocates. And I can understand why people

314
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 4: have been killed for performing abortions. People are going to

315
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 4: jail now for performing abortions. So I can see how

316
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:09,199
Speaker 4: people or doctors, medical professionals are not out there advocating

317
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 4: for this and publicizing that they do it. But we

318
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 4: really need that, We really need to destigmatize how we

319
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 4: see it, and we need to make it safe for

320
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 4: people to have this service. I know that the film

321
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 4: in the film in the mas Babs, we feature the

322
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 4: whistle blowing doctor, doctor Bernard Rosenfeldt, who alerted the public

323
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 4: to what was taking place at the La County Hospital.

324
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 4: He's still I'm not sure if he can legally now,

325
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 4: but he was performing abortions when we were when we

326
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 4: interviewed him, So he's like one of the few doctors

327
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 4: who was still doing that because it can be dangerous

328
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 4: in some places, and now it's illegal.

329
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 2: My follow up question for you is about this decision

330
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 2: that you made at forty eight, because there's I think

331
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 2: this image that we have of who receives an abortion,

332
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 2: maybe a young girl, a teenager, but I think the

333
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: statistic shows that it's also women who are already mothers.

334
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 2: And so I'm wondering how you came to that decision.

335
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 2: And you said you told your parents, and so that's

336
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: very different from than your story when you were seventeen, right,

337
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 2: So just wondering how you can reflect on that and

338
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 2: how you look back on that experience now.

339
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 4: Well, being forty eight, I didn't think it was possible

340
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 4: to get pregnant, Honestly. I wasn't being very careful, and

341
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 4: it's not like my husband was living he was living

342
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 4: part time in Oregon, so it's not like we were

343
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 4: having a lot of sex, and so it was real

344
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 4: shock to become pregnant. And then I was already having

345
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 4: pelvic floor issues from my second child, and then I

346
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 4: had a third child, so I was really worried if

347
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 4: my body could handle it, Like, what's going to happen?

348
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 4: You know, I put on a lot of weight when

349
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 4: I get pregnant, I put on fifty pounds. It's like,

350
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 4: what's going to happen to my pelvic floor? And also

351
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 4: I had a fifteen year old and a twelve year

352
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 4: old and a seven year old at the time, and

353
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 4: those were really heavy years because I was, you know,

354
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 4: kind of a single mom at points with my husband away.

355
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 4: I just couldn't see myself having another child. And then

356
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,479
Speaker 4: I also thought, well, what if it's not viable, Like

357
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 4: what if I lose it at four months or five months?

358
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 4: I don't want to go through that experience. So there

359
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 4: were so many reasons why it wasn't financial we could

360
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 4: have afforded to have another kid. It was because of

361
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 4: my age, and because of my kids, and because of

362
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 4: my body. But also I think it's really important. I

363
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 4: would really like for us to normalize not having to

364
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 4: justify why we make that decision. This is a great conversation,

365
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 4: so I'm really happy to share. But I feel like

366
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 4: for some people it should just be enough that they

367
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 4: just didn't want to have a kid.

368
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 2: You know, oh, absolutely absolutely, And I think for us

369
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 2: it is important to normalize that you can have an

370
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: abortion later in life, that it's not just the young

371
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 2: teenager that maybe didn't know to use birth control, but

372
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: actually it can happen at any age, right, And I

373
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: think that there's not enough stories of those diverse experiences.

374
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,479
Speaker 4: I don't know anyone who got pregnant fort that just

375
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 4: seemed so it's good to talk about it, and it's

376
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 4: good to share that it is possible, so you should

377
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 4: use your precautions if you don't want to be pregnant.

378
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 4: And in the waiting room where I had the abortion

379
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 4: later in life, it was packed. There were probably would

380
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 4: say forty people in there from all ages, very young too.

381
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 4: I thought I was going to be the oldest person,

382
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 4: and I wasn't. There were some people that were, well

383
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 4: they might have been my age, and you know, looked

384
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: a little older. So I thought that was really interesting

385
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 4: as well. It's such a needed service.

386
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love the point that you make about

387
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, we can give all these reasons for why

388
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: we need this abortion, or we could just say I

389
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: just don't want to. We don't need to justify and

390
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: in some ways isn't that very basic? I just don't

391
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: want to, Like the most important reason of all. Money

392
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: can change, things can change in life, you can move

393
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: things around, But just not wanting to should be the

394
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: ultimate reason exactly.

395
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree more.

396
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: So.

397
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 2: You talked about the stigma, right, and how that maybe

398
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: prevents people from seeking care. How did you feel supported

399
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: by maybe your community or your family, your parents when

400
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: you decided to exercise your right to choose.

401
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 4: Well, this was before I was hanging out with a

402
00:24:58,880 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 4: twenty something year.

403
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: Old Oh okay, bring us back there please.

404
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 4: If I would have had those young people as friends,

405
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 4: I think it would have been a different experience because

406
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 4: people my age were shocked that I was pregnant. So

407
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 4: I told a couple of people and they didn't really

408
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 4: respond in the way that I would have appreciated because

409
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 4: of their surprise and because of the I think they

410
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 4: were thinking, Oh, I'm so glad that hasn't happened to me,

411
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 4: like that would be, you know. So that was kind

412
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 4: of the energy that I got, and so I didn't

413
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 4: really feel like I had the support that I really wanted.

414
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 4: And I also didn't want to go very public with

415
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 4: it because I didn't have any close friends at that

416
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 4: time that I wanted to share with. And then later

417
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: on a few years later, I learned about abortion doulas,

418
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 4: and I thought, if I would have known about an

419
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 4: abortion doula, I would have definitely asked for that kind

420
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 4: of support because I really needed that, like emotionally, spiritually.

421
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 4: I had no doubt that I was making the right decision,

422
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 4: so I didn't don't have any regrets, but that kind

423
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 4: of care that you need after such a procedure like that,

424
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 4: and then to know that they didn't do it properly

425
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 4: and I had to go back again for a second one,

426
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 4: it was it was very traumatic.

427
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: I feel like there's this idea that when you have

428
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: when you give birth, you know you want your village

429
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: around you. And then there's sort of like two different

430
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: schools of thought on abortion, like it either like devastates

431
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: you or like it doesn't bother you at all, But

432
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: it seems like there's some in between also, right with

433
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 1: that procedure that you're speaking to that, well, No, in

434
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: that circumstance, there also was like a need for support.

435
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's it's it's removing of of your body

436
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 4: tissue in a way, that is very clinical and very unemotional,

437
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 4: but it's it's it's connected to you, and when you

438
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 4: let go of that, it's I think it's it's hard

439
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 4: for it not to be emotional. Even when I was seventeen,

440
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 4: I had emotional feelings, but I had my boyfriend and

441
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 4: I was young, and there were there were a lot

442
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 4: of distractions after when I had my abortion. Later in life,

443
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: I had to go back and be a mother. I

444
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 4: had to cook, I had to take my kids to school.

445
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: I had a lot of obligations that didn't allow me

446
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 4: to really sit with the feelings or to distract myself

447
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 4: with something fun and joyful. Not that my kids weren't joyful,

448
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 4: but those were hard years too, fifteen and twelve, those boys,

449
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 4: those were difficult years. There's a lot of tension in

450
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 4: the house. So I don't remember it being a positive

451
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 4: moment in my life.

452
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: And with both procedures at seventeen and at forty eight,

453
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: your boyfriend at the time and your husband were they supportive.

454
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: My boyfriend when I was seventeen, he you know, that's

455
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 4: the first thing he said, you have to have an abortion,

456
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,239
Speaker 4: And that kind of made me think, well, I'm going

457
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 4: to make this decision myself if I want to keep

458
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 4: I mean, I knew in my mind I didn't want

459
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 4: to have a child, but I wanted it to be

460
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 4: my decision. And then he was very supportive, taking me

461
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 4: and helping me afterwards and hanging out with me. And

462
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 4: then my husband was very supportive. He's like, what would

463
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 4: you like to do and let me decide, you know,

464
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 4: what we should do. And then but he wasn't. He

465
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: was not in Los Angeles at the time, so my

466
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 4: parents took me and and then he was just I

467
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 4: don't know. When he came home, he was supportive, but

468
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 4: it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't the kind of support

469
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 4: that I think I needed, like like from like I

470
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 4: would have received from from a mother who was understanding,

471
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 4: or a sister who I could talk to who had

472
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 4: was understanding in that way, or a friend.

473
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 1: And for those listening, you know, what sort of advice

474
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: might you have for them, whether that's how to be

475
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: supportive of someone else who's thinking about going through this

476
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: procedure or those who they themselves might need to get

477
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: this procedure done.

478
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 4: I would say, for sure, not to pity the individual,

479
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 4: also not to shame them, not to judge them for

480
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 4: what happened, or for getting pregnant, for having an unwanted pregnancy.

481
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 4: I think offering food, offering a walk, offering to drive them,

482
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 4: offering to pick them up. I think those ways are

483
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 4: really important. And just being a good listener, you know,

484
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 4: a good listener validating someone's experience without judging Thinca is

485
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 4: the most important thing.

486
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: After the break, we're joined by Laudajimenez, Executive director at

487
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: California Latinas for Reproductive Justice. She's led California Latinas for

488
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: Reproductive Justice since twenty eleven and brings to this work

489
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: the passion and commitment of close to thirty years of

490
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: activism in the reproductive justice movement.

491
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: California Latinas for Reproductive Justice was founded by a group

492
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: of Latinas who were advocates and attorneys involved in advocating

493
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: for reproductive health and reproductive rights. At the time, the

494
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: mainstream reproductive rights movement was not taking Latinas into account.

495
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: Reproductive justice is a term that's used interchangeably with reproductive

496
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: health and rights. But what does reproductive justice mean? What

497
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: are its origins? Here's Lauda.

498
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: I think often when we talk about reproductive justice. People

499
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 3: just think we have changed the term and it's interchangeable

500
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: with reproductive rights or reproductive health. So reproductive justice is

501
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: a framework that was It was a term that was

502
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: coined by twelve black women in nineteen ninety four, during

503
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 3: the time that there was an attempt, the first attempt

504
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: to do healthcare reform in the US under the Clintons,

505
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: and at that time they were just they had put

506
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 3: the term together, saying that it would be reproductive health

507
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,959
Speaker 3: and rights plus social justice equals reproductive justice. And what

508
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: that meant was that many of the folks that I

509
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 3: learned from my elders, my teachers, had been involved in

510
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: what's known as second wave feminism underneath sort of mainstream

511
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: white feminists organizing, and a lot of that was Equal

512
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: Rights Amendment, a lot of that was pro choice abortion

513
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: rights work. And what women of color at that time

514
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: were saying was that we are supportive of abortion. Because

515
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: what they were hearing was, well, we don't really talk

516
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: to you all because you all don't like you Latinas

517
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 3: don't support abortion rights. What was said back was that's

518
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 3: not true. We do actually support people being able to

519
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: make choices about their own bodies and reproduction. But we

520
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: also can't talk about abortion without talking about poverty, without

521
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: talking about environmental justice, without talking about incarceration, immigration law,

522
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: the foster care system, and many many other intersecting frameworks.

523
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 3: And in fact, when the framework was really fleshed out

524
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 3: in the late nineties and early two thousands, the work

525
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: of the theory of intersectionality that was created by Kimberly Crenshaw,

526
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 3: who's a black legal scholar and other sort of black

527
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 3: feminist thought was heavily injected into what is reproductive justice.

528
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: Reproductive justice is more than just access to abortion care.

529
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: Lauda explains the four tenants to reproductive justice.

530
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: That is, the right to not have children, which encompasses

531
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: the right to abortion, the right to contraception, making sure

532
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: that there's sex ed in schools, comprehensive sexuality education in schools.

533
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: Second tenant being the right to have children. So we

534
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: also need to recognize that for many people, many marginalized

535
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: or colonized people in this country, the right to have

536
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: children has not always been free of interference by the

537
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: state or any or systems right institutions that we live under. So,

538
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: for example, sterilization abuse was something that was happening to

539
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: many groups in this country. The third tenant is the

540
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 3: right to parent the children that we have in safe,

541
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: violence free environments. And the fourth tenant is the right

542
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 3: to bodily autonomy and gender identity, So making sure that

543
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: we are being really clear that we have sovereignty over

544
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 3: our bodies and we also have the right to determine

545
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: and share with other people what our gender identity is

546
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: and expect that to be respected and supported.

547
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: The LATINX community is specifically targeted by misinformation and disinformation.

548
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 3: Specifically when we talk about crisis pregnancy centers, which are

549
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: fake reproductive health centers. A great we did. There was

550
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 3: a great legislative effort in California in the twenty I

551
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 3: can't remember fifteen sixteen, and that was a Reproductive Fact Act.

552
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 3: It was led by our partners at Black Women for

553
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: Wellness and it basically was requiring pregnancy centers, these crisis

554
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 3: pregnancy centers to have a signage that said we are

555
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 3: there is no medical stuff on the premises. It also

556
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: disallowed them from lying to their patients. So one of

557
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 3: the tactics that they use sometimes because they are run

558
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 3: by the anti abortion forces and organizations, One of the

559
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: things they will do is they'll offer the free ultra

560
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 3: sound and all that good stuff, and then they'll say, Stephanie,

561
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 3: your pregnancy is only six weeks, so you have some

562
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 3: time to think about what you're going to do. Or Stephanie,

563
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 3: your pregnancy is at sixteen weeks, so actually you know,

564
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 3: there's there's no more options for you, or you know,

565
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: whatever they will lie.

566
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 2: The state of California ensures the legal right to an abortion,

567
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: but this does not guarantee access to abortion care.

568
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 3: You know, the leaders of the governor and the legislature

569
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 3: likes to talk about California being a beacon for reproductive rights,

570
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 3: and to some degree, yes, and then I think it's

571
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 3: important to also say, but also and also just because

572
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: we have laws on the books that protect people's rights

573
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 3: to whatever medical care that they need, does not mean

574
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 3: they can actually access that care. And so this is

575
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 3: really important when we talk about Latina communities because we know,

576
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: for example that I think about a third of Latina

577
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: communities in California are living in remote or rural areas.

578
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: So we're aware that people in Central Valley, like we

579
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: knew from before, we work with our partners that access

580
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 3: reproductive justice that runs a hotline and a practical support program.

581
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 3: They would call us in LA and say, we've got

582
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: somebody coming in from Central Valley to LA. They need

583
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 3: to get to UCLA, they need to be there overnight,

584
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 3: and they would be asking for people to come in

585
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: for support, so for people to pick them up from

586
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: the train station, take them to the clinic, maybe get

587
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: them food, maybe house them, maybe watch their children. You know,

588
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 3: there's all these different ways that you can practically support people,

589
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: but there are so many barriers that can be in

590
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 3: the way for people who are seeking that reproductive health

591
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: care that they need.

592
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: Lauda emphasizes that when pregnant people do not have access

593
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: to safe abortion services, that the consequences can be deadly.

594
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 3: When people don't want to be pregnant, they will find

595
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: the way to not be pregnant, and so it's important

596
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 3: for us to make sure that people have the options

597
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: that they that they need right and we're seeing this

598
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: unfortunately played out in other states right now, where even

599
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 3: it's not folks necessarily that are getting unsafe abortions, it's

600
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 3: the people who are having, you know, the ectopic pregnancies

601
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 3: or other fetal anomalies that are actually dangerous to the

602
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 3: pregnant person and their own lives are being put at risk.

603
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 3: The United States government has decided that, you know, that

604
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 3: is not as important as the potential of a fetus

605
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: becoming a child and being born. And that's that's the question.

606
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 3: We have to grapple with.

607
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: The statistics around abortions and who gets them may disrupt

608
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: any pre existing ideas you have of who actually gets abortions.

609
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 3: The majority of people who get abortions are people who

610
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 3: already have children, and I think, you know, we're kind

611
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: of what I think is important to know is like

612
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 3: Catholic women have abortions rates that are equal to other religions.

613
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 3: Latinas have abortions in rates that are comparable to other

614
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 3: ethnic groups. And so it's we have to really correct

615
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: our thinking about it, you know. And for the longest time,

616
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 3: the raid is basically fifty percent of all pregnancies around

617
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 3: planned or mistimed. Right, I have two children. One of

618
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 3: them was mistimed. I was married. I was married, I

619
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 3: was over thirty, and you know, it was what happened, right,

620
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 3: I wanted to have another child and so we had one.

621
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: But if it had been another time, another situation, maybe

622
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have. And that's just the reality of how

623
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: things work. And I think around this conversation, there's so

624
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 3: much that's not said too, which is that people don't

625
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: want to talk about people's sexual activity. They don't want to,

626
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 3: they don't want to really get to, you know, get

627
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 3: into that piece. And it's like, but that we have,

628
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 3: but we have to, like.

629
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: We have to talk about it. I learned so much

630
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: from our conversation with Virginia, and I think the greatest

631
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: takeaway from her story is that women do not have

632
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: to justify why they get abortions. Whether you feel your

633
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: too young to have a baby, or you're too old

634
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: to have a baby, or you've already had a lot

635
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: of babies, or you just don't want to have a baby,

636
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: that any reason is truly a good reason to pursue

637
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: an abortion if you feel that you need that. It

638
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: is a medical service. It is medical care that is

639
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: a necessity, a life saving necessity for so many people.

640
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: And I really appreciated Virginia's take on that that not

641
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: wanting to have a baby is a good enough reason

642
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: to not have a baby.

643
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: What I learned from Lauda is the legacy and history

644
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 2: of reproductive justice, not only in California but across the country.

645
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 2: I also really enjoyed learning about the four tenants to

646
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: reproductive justice, which is the right not to have children,

647
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: the right to have children, the rights of parent children

648
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: in a safe and violent free community, and finally the

649
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: fourth tenant, the right to bodily autonomy and gender identity.

650
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 2: I think I think now more than ever, it's especially

651
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: important to think about reproductive justice in our local community

652
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: and also personally and how we enact that for ourselves

653
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: and for each others. Choo Senora Sex Said is a

654
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: co production between Locata Productions and Michael Dura Podcast Network.

655
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 1: This show is executive produced by Mala Munos and theos FM.

656
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: Also executive produced by Jasell.

657
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 1: Bances, produced by Stephanie Franco.

658
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 2: Creative direction by Mala Munios.

659
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: Story editing by THEOSAFM.

660
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 2: Music direction by Grisol Lomeli, and.

661
00:41:41,400 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: Music produced by Brian Gazo Logal Lumlia