WEBVTT - China Ascent Exposes Its Achilles Heel 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.760 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all furnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.200 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.120 YouTube search Bloomberg Clobal News. Has China reached a tipping 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.080 point that could endanger its growth, social stability and place 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.760 in the world. In his weekly callum, Bloomberg New Economy 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:42.120 nitorial director Andy Brown writes about China's achilles heel. And 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:43.760 you should also know that you can sign up for 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.440 the New Economy daily newsletter at Bloomberg dot com slash 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.960 New Economy. I've signed up for it and I'm getting 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.720 it every day. Andy joins us in our interactive Broger Student. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.280 It's so nice to have you in studio. It's great 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.240 to be a Carol and thanks for signing up for 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.560 the newsletter. Welcome. Everybody else did. Because I always feel like, 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.000 and I've said this to you before, that you often 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.200 bring to the table, uh, something that ultimately in a 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.559 month from now or two months, everybody's talking about, especially 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.120 when it comes to China. You have insight like no 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.520 one else, and this story plays to it. Talk to 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.240 us a little bit about your column. So this, this 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.720 really is the big one. This is the big tipping 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:23.080 point we've been talking about for years. In demographic terms, 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:29.240 We've hit peak China. The population is not growing. It's 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.760 all downhill from now on in. And actually we're going 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:37.120 to get the census results, the latest census results this week, 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.160 and it's quite possible that those data will show that 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:45.520 China's population has already started to shrink, which is staggering him. Okay, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.160 so make the connection between the population loss there and 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.360 what it means for the country's future. So so so, 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.400 probably just just a recap. You had in China, a 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.760 massive population boom in the sixties and seventies. Right, This 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.000 was Mark Chairman Mao basically said to Chinese woman, is 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.400 your patriotic duty to have babies? So in the sixties, 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.720 Chinese woman had on average six babies. You then get 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.800 this doubling of the Chinese population in thirty years to 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.360 a billion, and they freak out. The party freaks out 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:21.359 and puts in place the most draconian family planning policy 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.480 in history, one child family. Right. Both of those policies 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.520 are now coming home to roost with disastrous consequences, so 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:34.000 that the boomers, the male boomers, are retiring all mass. Meanwhile, 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:40.120 the working population is shrinking rapidly. And so you project 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.680 forward to two thousand and fifty, whereas today you have 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.160 eight workers for everyone retiree, two thousand people, you're gonna 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.600 have two workers for every retiree who is going to 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.920 look after the old. So it's not so much that 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:57.120 the population is shrinking, but that the age composition is 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.280 changing radically. Well, we talked about that where in guards 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.720 to Japan years ago, right, and the impact it had. 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.760 We talked about it on the U. S Society. I mean, so, 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.080 so can't Chinese official just say okay, everybody, go ahead 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.760 and just more babies now, Well you talk about Japan. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.360 It doesn't work. I mean, once your population starts shrinking, 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.760 it's really all over. I mean you have a situation. 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.160 Now in Japan, they tried to cause it encourage part 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.359 the couples to have children. Doesn't work right now, something 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.320 like one in four Japanese women in their thirties of 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.760 single they're not They don't want babies at all. They 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.359 don't want marriage at all. They want a life outside 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.880 of the family. And that's true in Singapore, it's true 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.680 in South Korea, it's true in Hong Kong. You know, 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.520 the the reversing a demographic trend is virtually impossible. A 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.120 question that you ask in the column is can't technology 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.800 offset population loss? Can it? Well? It can, it can 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.840 to an extent. Right, So people say that it's not 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.280 about the raw numbers. Now national power is measured more 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.720 in terms of technological capability. And that's true. Um, people say, well, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.760 why should you worry about, you know, shrinking workforce. You 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:09.680 just deploy robots instead of people. But that kind of committigate. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:14.920 I mean, it can offset population imbalances. But you know, 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.240 you look at the problems this creates. Who who's gonna 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.760 you know, what about the medical system in in China 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.200 of course, where they with with retirees, you have associated 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.920 problems of you know, strokes and heart disease and dementia, 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.440 and the hospital system right now is struggling to cope 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.719 you know. So Okay, so we have been for decades, 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.479 you know this, The world has been fearing China and 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.040 its might and its economic might. And we have a 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.280 lot of stories about the Chinese economy getting ready to 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.000 take over the US economy. Right, is the world's biggest economy. Um, 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.400 So what happens then, Andy, how does this play out potentially? Look? Hum, 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.640 the Chinese government is very worried about this. Number one, 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.200 where is the investment going to from? You know, older 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.200 people have a propensity to spend. Uh. Working age people 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.279 have a propensity to save. Right, So your national savings 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.040 rate go down, and so the pools of capital available 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.040 for investment start to dwindle. That's that's one immediate impact. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.640 But then you also have an impact on entrepreneurship and innovation. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:24.600 I think young societies are innovative, right. And then in 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.880 raw terms, China's vast population, they have more engineers, they 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.680 have more so you know, they have more scientists. Um, 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:37.679 and that population starts starts shrinking with impact on human capital, uh, Andy, 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.680 Just very briefly here in thirty seconds. Is this something 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:42.599 we need to worry about happening in the US. The 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.480 years long US baby drought worsened last year, birth dropped 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:50.200 four percent from nineteen to the lowest level since nineteen seventy. Okay, 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.479 big difference. Immigration. If the US wanted it could open 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.239 the board it. China doesn't do immigration. It also sounds 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.880 like this, and they probably won't for very complicated ethnic reasons, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.919 reasons of social cohesion. They just don't open their miniscule 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.320 numbers of Chinese people are immigrants or people in China immigrants. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.039 And this isn't a problem that China can just throw 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.120 money at correct just quickly, Absolutely not at all. In fact, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.040 this isn't the problem they can address at all. Told 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.440 you so must read always is Andy Brown. Thank you 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.320 so much, Andy Brown, editorial director at Bloomberg New Economy, 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.880 and of course check out as I said, the New 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.520 Economy daily news letter at Bloomberg dot com slash New Economy. 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.680 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:36.039 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. As we mentioned, 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:37.880 big story from the weekend, we're still dealing with it 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.960 that cyber attack that crippled North America's biggest petroleum pipeline. 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.240 We're talking about the Colonial Pipeline, Doug talking about the 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.039 stock impact. It's a critical source of supply for the 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.200 New York region. The FBI tim already attributing the massive 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.280 breach to ransomware created by a relatively new gang. It's 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.200 called dark Side. Yeah, let's go right now to Andre Krelle, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.720 founder and chief executive officer of Life Furs in the 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.680 New York City. Lab was established in collaboration with the 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.800 FBI DHS in secret service to examine digital evidence of 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.080 all forms of cybercrime. Andrea joins us right now on 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.320 the phone from New York City. Andre, thanks so much 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.880 for joining us on this. When you see something like 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:18.040 this happen, what is your first thought? Uh? Tim and Carroll, 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.080 thank you really for having me. My first thought is 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.120 looking to be handled three incidents like this every year, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.400 cyber patients coming to my door on daily basis. I 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.800 feel like a cyber emergency doctor and a therapy So 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:31.960 for me, that's a normal day, right to have a 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.840 ten sixty victims calling and asking for help. What difference 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:38.920 is going to be right now is is the press 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.600 around and magnificent of the colonialm is like a forty 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.120 five percent I guess, or for East coast supply and 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.880 also give the understanding that even such a big entity 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:53.840 can be compromised. And the industrial control system, but the 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.040 call industrial control system the pipeline can be affected. Do 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.440 you think the Colonial pipeline is making a mistake by 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.920 not asking for cyber support support excuse me from the 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:06.800 UTH federal government. Is that a mistake or is it 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:11.800 better for Colonial to remediate on its own? Carol? I 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:13.880 do think they do. Uh, they're part of it is 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.760 something called Industry of Control Systems Joint Working Group established 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.440 at the PHS level. I do believe that they are 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.560 part of this working joint group. And VHS hold at 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.840 the John Felker era who was assistant Directive Agency, which 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.360 we had a personal relationship with. They hold many of 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.679 these exercises with the existem. You have to think of 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.840 this thread after like a cyber snipers. It's not like 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.520 someone who's making mistakes like who the mistake is that 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.400 some of us gets called tomorrow like should we praise 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.360 someone for bringing the call to society or any kind 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:48.680 of like a virus society. I don't think there's really 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.560 like a point of finger to say who is really guilty. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.440 Looks thread afters who are making thirty forty million a year, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.200 they have some level of sophistication. But for example, there's 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.120 a speculation the market right now that Colonial was targeted 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.920 because of high ability to pay through their insurance program. 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.760 Understanding is that you know such trade after looking forward 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.760 thirty to forty million, Apparently Colonial holds such money to 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.760 pay on some insurance program. So I'm not sure it's 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.000 true or not, but there's a speculation that the doctor 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.160 ashould picked them because they're able to pay. What needs 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.480 to happen to get to a point where where this 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:28.360 just doesn't happen anymore, where this can be prevented. It 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.920 looks like like, let's face the reality being a compromise. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.120 Like for me, I still of being a cyber doctor. 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.640 It's just one of the life certainties right there is 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.079 there is no way to prevent cyber sickness per se. 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.240 In my opinion, like we're all gonna get something right, 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.199 and the question is going to be mild called to 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.600 pick cyber cancer, and it's just something we can't answer. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.079 But what we can answer to prepare for it, like 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.320 take all the vitamins? Uh, you know, do lo more 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.599 holistic approach in cyber security? Do more holistic approach? And 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.439 how we tried to detect remediating spread actors? How do 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.000 you actually detect them? And how quickly can we really 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.560 deal with them? When you tot check them and isolate 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.880 those systems that have been compromised most of the networks, 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:15.040 for example, what happened to Colonial If these thread actor's 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.960 gonna come to you the network, it's just the reality. Now, 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.679 real question is can you isolate them very quickly? Can 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:26.920 you eradicate the threat? Can you disconnect and prevent a 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.360 line of movement for more damage? And he's been in 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.760 society and the pandemic? How he failed? Why do you 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.199 think the enterprise system don't fail? They felt the same 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.280 way as the whole society felt the pandemic. It's just 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.319 the nature we as um. I would say computer architects 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.040 never had to deal with this isolation like a zero 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.640 trust issue. But how do they really operate? Like, but 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.599 I can't trust you that you scare on team on 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.000 the phone, I never met you. How do you know 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:53.800 it's really you? And I don't know. It's really boomed 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.240 the radio. What is this? Is radio going to somewhere else? 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.280 Andre just got about fifty seconds left here, so I 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.160 am what do your you say? You get calls every day, 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.920 So is this just kind of part of our norm 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:09.200 going forward? Carol? For me, it's been for the last 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.760 fifteen years. So yeah, I can tell I've been running 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.720 the cyber emergency room. This is a business what they 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.880 do as a life first, this is the digital for 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.720 end against a response. We also have an offensive team 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.319 that's basically breaking this for clients being paid, and we 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.559 do this like every day. This is what we're actually 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.520 living in. So is it about just quickly we've only 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.040 got about thirty forty seconds? Is it about doing harm? 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.720 Or is it just about finding entities that can pay 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.200 the ransom money and just quickly if you could. It's 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.960 truly just getting paid. Criminal just want to get paid. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.000 That's all what they want and it's easy. In two, 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.880 three days, four days only ransom get paid in the 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.079 bitcoins disappear and thanks to momentum what happened with the 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.440 bitcoin going up, some of them acknowledge on Mr Tesla 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.880 and and congratulating that we're being going going up. Well, 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.040 good to check in with you. I'm sure you're busy, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.880 as you mentioned at the top, So Andre, thank you 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.439 for your time again. Drake Kroll his founder and CE 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.760 of the cybersecurity solutions and services company Life Oars. He 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:06.600 has done a lot of contract work for the Department 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.920 of Justice and the special cyber operations at the US 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.120 Air Force. Joining us on the phone in New York City. 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.360 But a Way of Life is the organization that has 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.800 been connected to this, pointed out in a in a 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.719 statement on the dark Web earlier. They don't want to 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.880 necessarily cause harm their business people, right, it's a transaction. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.440 It's hard to do this without causing harm. Yeah, exactly, 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:30.280 because this pipeline has been down. Exactly. This is Bloomberg 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.960 Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:38.120 Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We are definitely We talked about 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:39.920 this store actually last week. It's in the current issue 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.120 at Bloomberg Business Week magazine. It was a most read 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.920 story in the Bloomberg went acrossed about. Yes, women and 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.640 Tim are getting top jobs at fun houses, but just 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.240 not the ones that managed money. Yeah, it's a little 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.280 surprising because there have been so many initiatives over the 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.200 past twenty years to try to actually increase diversity. Joe 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.000 Weber's at at Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us from 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.480 the New York City Bureau. Liz McCormick is a bond 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.040 and FX reporter at Bloomberg News. So, Joel, it's it's 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.360 surprising because despite years of initiatives, the statistics have not 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.160 budged what's going on. Yeah, and that's sort of what 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.480 led us to want to kind of dig into it. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:17.679 And so when Liz um Uh Katie her Uh co 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.920 write around this mentioned that um it was a story 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.680 that they were interested in, we sort of said, see 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:26.719 what's going on there? And what is interesting is that 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:31.599 there are some top jobs um with some interesting developments 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.520 and some some hires there, but the rink and file, 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.360 we're still not really seeing much action there despite a 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.839 lot of put forth. So so, Liz, what what do 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.800 you attribute that to? Well, it's interesting, Like Joel said, 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.559 it's like in the middle is where you know, we're 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.800 hearing there's more women because to run a fund, there's 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.160 the fund managers and then there's lots of strategists and 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.920 analysts that help and what it seems to be from 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.640 our reporting and some of the data from morning Stars 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.559 that you know, there are more women coming in and 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.079 taking the roles of strategists and helping the fund managers, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.199 but there doesn't seem to be that many that are 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.439 moving from that level to the next level. And there's 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.920 a mix of reasons we can talk about why people 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.400 think that is uh, And to be honest, morning Stars 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.440 said they want to kind of dig deeper in the 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.720 data to kind of see what, you know, what's coming 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.000 up the wheels. Where is it not working to get 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.320 them to the next level. Yeah, it's a head scratcher 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.320 because you do see, as to mention, a lot of 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.640 companies and initiatives to increase women, certainly at financial firms, 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.600 and it doesn't look like the numbers are moving as 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.280 you reported. Tell me about the one woman that you 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.920 profiled in your story. You talked to a few, but 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.400 you start off with Linda Jang. Yeah, she was quite 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.080 compelling and interesting and it's you know, she started her 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.960 own firm. She's done at several big asset managers, started 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.800 her own firm, and you know she didn't you know, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.320 mint her words and said, I think there's still some 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:02.120 biases in there that you know, men feel comfortable letting 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.920 you know, women you know, kind of assists and give 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.200 some advice, but you know, for the firms to let 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.080 them kind of run the fund themselves. She believes there's 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.400 still some bias against that um but we're seeing, like said, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.000 with her, you know, she went on, you know, to 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:17.960 start her own firm, and I you know, it was 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.240 very happy to talk to Gene Hines, who's going to 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.800 be the new CEO of Wellington. And I will say 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.120 Jean is hopeful. You know, she's realistic, but she's hopeful. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.080 And she said, you know, fifteen years ago she was 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.600 the only woman in the room all the time, and 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.640 now that's changing. And she's hoping that maybe eventually, like 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.400 it's just a slow moving thing, right, that maybe since 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.320 we're seeing some all these initiatives and some more women 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.160 you know research analysts, that maybe the numbers give us 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.160 five years whatever, we're going to see more women fund managers. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.000 We can hope, you know. So it's nice to have hope, 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.880 but it's it's a little distressing to see the numbers. Well, 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:59.400 is another person another woman profile is our investment managements. 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.960 Kathy Would, who also started her own firm, started her 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.480 own fund right right, So it's interesting. It's like I 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.520 have two young daughters in their twenties, both working and 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.920 I they're not each in finance, but I like to 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.920 show them these things to say, like listen, there's a way, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.680 you know, and some of these really sharp women, I guess, 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.000 have said, like listen, if if the system isn't going 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.160 to move me, I'm going to create my own you know, 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.240 create my own firm, do my own niche. And I 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.720 think that's important. You know, there's there's a way to 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:29.760 do it. I remember I did a story a while 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:34.160 ago which was saying that women running fixed income funds 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.520 are those funds that had women on at morning Star. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.480 Data showed the returns were better than just like pure 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.960 mail run funds alone, not mixed gender, and someone were saying, 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.400 kind of it's crazy, you know, should just go by 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.240 the number. So I think these women are saying, listen, 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.520 I'm I'm confident myself, I was doing well, my returns 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.880 are good. I'm just gonna start my own biss. So 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.480 I think it's great to see. At the same time, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.400 you know, there's the gene Hynes story is ultimately of 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.040 one of somebody who's persevered within a company for a 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.520 long time, and like you mentioned, she's gonna be UM 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:12.600 CEO on July one. So so her root, I suppose 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.800 it's sort of the one that a lot of of 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.960 companies and other executives are hoping to annulate, where you 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.560 can sort of rise through the ranks and eventually take 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:24.760 over a fund and then become a CEO of a 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.399 fund of funds. Right, So, so what what is she 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.960 talked about in her experience since that's a pretty high 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.200 profile position that she'll be inheriting here soon. Yeah. She 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.399 she was really interesting and she was saying not to 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.640 minimize her talents, um, but she said, listen, I rose 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.120 to these ranks. And she had a lot of good 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.320 things to say about Wellington and what they've done, and 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.560 you know, she had a great mentor in ed Owens 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.280 that really helped. But she said, in some ways I 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.920 rose to these ranks, not because the system facilitated it, 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.280 just because it worked out. I had a firm, a 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.160 good mentor, you know, she's smart, etcetera. But it wasn't 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.680 designed that way. And she was saying, so we need 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.960 the systems to be designed, whether it's in a lot 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.840 of these women talk about role models, like people you 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.600 heard this about kids, what's doing different things, the same thing. 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.600 For any job, young women need to see women doing it, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.000 you know, like and say oh, hey, I can be that, 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.280 like someone like Jeane to say wow, I could be 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.280 a CEO, or I could run a fun or you know. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.920 So I think they all feel like we still need 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.520 more women role models, and a lot of firms are 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:37.920 working on that, but it's rights success. What's amazing to 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.320 me is that you would think that performance alone would 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.160 just be like, well, wait a minute. If Morning Star 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.280 has done the research and shows that women running fixed 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:49.120 income the performances there better than there are male counterparts, 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.000 you would think that that would be a no brainer. 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.640 And it it kind of boggles the mind here, Liz, Yep, yep. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.920 And it's funny like one thing. And I have heard 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.720 this in other years that have kind of followed this 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.280 topic for a while. Maybe I'm biased because I'm interested 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.320 in it, but I think it's important to shine a 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.800 light on it. Um. But that you know Tracy Chen 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.000 who's at Brandywe who spoke to us, she says like 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.560 I've heard before, like also young women who we know. 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.000 There's a lot of initiatives of one daughter who's an 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.280 engineer to get more women into STEM. But she was saying, 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.320 what fun management. You don't have to be this super 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.680 quant and she thinks sometimes that keeps women away, she said, 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.560 And it's true, like knowing history and geopolitics and all 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:35.160 that's so important in making decisions on which stocks, which bonds, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.560 and so maybe we just need to give that message 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.320 to young women that you know, you could come from 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.040 a wealth of different background as far as academic studies 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.600 and some into this. It's a great story and in 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.240 the current issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, Liz thanks 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.560 so much. Liz McCormick. She's Bond, an FX reporter at 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.200 Bloomberg News along with Joe Weber, Editor Bloomberg Business Week. 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.399 Hey is in our New York City bureau. Lives on 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.000 the phone from New Jersey. Is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.960 Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.520 Tim one of our top stories, certainly on this Monday, 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.439 kind of his every day and that is the latest 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.880 on the virus in COVID nineteen uh and we are 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.000 seeing vaccinations being given out slowing down. We've talked about 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:19.399 that a lot here in the United States, and there 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.000 were some comments by Dr Anthony Fauci noting that COVID 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.840 caused more deaths in the United States than reported. He 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.120 caught up on Meet the Press over the weekend. Check 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.760 it out. We've been saying in the CDC has been 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.720 saying all along that it is very likely that we're undercounting. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.000 You know, the model says that it's a significant amount, 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.280 as you mentioned, correctly, nine thousand. That's a bit more 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.680 than I would have thought the undercounting was. But you know, 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.600 sometimes the models are right online, sometimes they're a bit off. 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.159 But I think there's no doubt, um chuck, that we 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.360 are and have been undercounting alright, So undercounting. Let's see 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.000 what our next guest has to say about that and 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.679 kind of where we are when it comes to COVID nineteen. 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:02.600 Bruce Farber is back with us. He is chief of 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.600 Infectious Diseases at Northwell Health north Shore University Hospital in 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.400