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Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a

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Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. This episode contains

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Speaker 1: discussions of sensitive topics including violence, hate, crimes, and the

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Speaker 1: use of discriminatory language and slurs. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: In the criminal justice system, landmark trials transcend the courtroom

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Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate

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Speaker 2: and prosecute these cases are part of a select group

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Speaker 2: that is defined American history. These are their stories. December eighth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, would be Island, Washington.

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Speaker 1: The high speed pursuit for Allenburg's killers didn't end on

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Speaker 1: a highway. It led to a bluff above Puget Sound,

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Speaker 1: where a two story cabin sat silent in the dark,

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't empty.

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Speaker 3: Bob Matthews will not surrender, he refuses.

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Speaker 1: He was armed, cornered and waiting.

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Speaker 3: Darkness came. We decided to bring helicopters in.

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Speaker 1: The choppers dropped low, the thump of their rotor blades

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Speaker 1: cracked against the tree tops.

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Speaker 3: Set them right down on top of the roof of

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Speaker 3: Blowing shingles off the roof.

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Speaker 4: The helicopter illuminated the rear of the house with a

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Speaker 4: huge ten thousand kindlepower spotlight.

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Speaker 1: It was meant to flush Matthews out and enable a

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Speaker 1: safe arrest, but he had other plans.

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Speaker 4: Matthews opened up on the helicopter with a AR fifteen.

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Speaker 1: The battle had just begun.

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Speaker 5: I got a call, get out to LaGuardia Airport.

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Speaker 6: There's been a bombing.

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Speaker 4: There was a thirty two foot crater in front of

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Speaker 4: what was left of the building.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out, Am I dead?

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Speaker 3: Am I alive? Where am I?

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Speaker 1: I'm Aniseega Nicolazzi.

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Speaker 4: That's why terrorism works.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't care who you are.

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Speaker 1: From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is law and order,

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Speaker 1: criminal justice system. The nineteen eighty four killing of Denver

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Speaker 1: talk radio host Alan Berg had all the hallmarks of

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Speaker 1: a targeted hit. Was it someone he defended on his

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Speaker 1: show or was it part of something even bigger and

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Speaker 1: more dangerous for law enforcement to get from suspicion to

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Speaker 1: a courtroom that would take evidence and in the weeks

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Speaker 1: after the shooting, FBI Special Agent Wayne Mannis started to

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Speaker 1: collect what he needed.

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Speaker 3: I am preparing to get a wealth of information out

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Speaker 3: of the area. In Congress at the Area Nations Compound

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Speaker 3: July nineteen eighty four. Larry and the police department over

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Speaker 3: and Spokane. They've got some informants they're going to send

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Speaker 3: in and I'll get privy for what's happening.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the largest annual gatherings of white

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Speaker 1: supremacists in the country. Wayne had been tracking them for months,

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Speaker 1: but still didn't have the green light to do more.

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Speaker 3: I complete this report to get authorization for a full

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Speaker 3: scale investigation near the end of June, and I send

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Speaker 3: it off. We go through the Aryan Compound in July

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Speaker 3: and I still don't have authorization to do anything.

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Speaker 1: All Wayne could do was watch and listen. But from

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Speaker 1: the sidelines, Wayne saw something percolating that caught his attention.

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Speaker 3: There was a guy that gave speeches there, a real

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Speaker 3: charismatic and his name was Lewis Beam. Lewis Beam was

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Speaker 3: a member of the k Clarks Klan out of Texas

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Speaker 3: and former Vietnam guy. He was a machine gunner, so

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Speaker 3: he has training and a lot of experience.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't Beam's combat record that made him dangerous.

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Speaker 1: It was his ideas. Here again is terrorism researcher Michael Jensen.

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Speaker 7: Beam was able to articulate a set of tactical ideas

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Speaker 7: that became a key feature of the organization. One of

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Speaker 7: the most important foundational ideas in this movement is the

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Speaker 7: idea of leaderless resistance.

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Speaker 1: Beam was more than another loud voice at the podium.

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Speaker 1: He was shaping the white supremacist playbook.

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Speaker 7: What Beam did was really to promote this idea that

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Speaker 7: anyone in everyone could get involved in the movement. Don't

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Speaker 7: wait for someone to come to you, start your own militia.

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Speaker 7: As long as everyone agrees on the ideology and the

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Speaker 7: tactics that they're willing to use, the movement will survive. Ultimately,

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Speaker 7: what he wrote about leaderless resistance became a foundational belief

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Speaker 7: for the movement.

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Speaker 1: And by the time of the Aryan Congress, Beam had

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Speaker 1: been brought into the fold by one of the very

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Speaker 1: men Wain was watching, Robert Matthews.

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Speaker 3: Unbeknownst to me, he's one of the guys that Bob

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Speaker 3: has recruited as an Aryan warrior during the time of

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Speaker 3: the aria In Congress, this guy's given us speech and

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Speaker 3: he says, we've already eliminated one of the most prominent

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Speaker 3: obnoxious Jews in our society. And of course I know

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Speaker 3: alan Berg has been killed, so what are you going

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Speaker 3: to think? That's what I'm thinking. This guy is saying

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Speaker 3: we have done this.

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Speaker 1: This was more than just rhetoric. It was an admission.

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Speaker 3: So I called repde and I said, I'm wondering about

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Speaker 3: this guy Lewis Beam. They said, well, we don't know

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Speaker 3: about him, but we got a suspect. And the suspect

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Speaker 3: is David Lane, who had a long and heated conversation

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Speaker 3: with him, and Alan Bert just absolutely slaughtered him in

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Speaker 3: the conversation. We think maybe David Lane. So he says,

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Speaker 3: maybe you guys could take it up, and I said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you bet we will.

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Speaker 1: Now wein had a name and an idea allen Berg's

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Speaker 1: murder might not be an isolated act of violence, but

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Speaker 1: potentially part of a much larger conspiracy and.

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Speaker 3: Kind of read into what my thought process was at

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Speaker 3: that time. All this criminal stuff is happening, and in

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Speaker 3: my mind, I'm pushing it all into one group people. Yep.

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Speaker 3: Can I prove it? No, I can't prove it, but.

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Speaker 1: It's but you're starting to see it. You're starting to

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Speaker 1: figure it out, like each spoke and how you're.

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Speaker 3: Going to go after them exactly.

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Speaker 1: Wayne had had a partial view, but now could see

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Speaker 1: the entire wheel. Its spokes were made up of white

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Speaker 1: supremacists and potential killers. The center was Bob Matthews. For weeks,

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Speaker 1: Wayne had been circling Matthew's group. He had informants at

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Speaker 1: Aryan nations, He had names and locations, but what he

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Speaker 1: didn't have was permission to chase down either. That changed

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Speaker 1: in early August.

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Speaker 3: After their annual area in Congress. The report comes back

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Speaker 3: in from the Attorney General's office and they said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you've got the authority to conduct a full scale investigation.

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Speaker 3: Now the ropes.

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Speaker 1: Are off and Wayne didn't waste time.

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Speaker 3: So now they have sent me a first office agent

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Speaker 3: out of Denver, five people out of San Francisco, couple

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Speaker 3: from Los Angeles. I've got my little group now, maybe

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Speaker 3: ten people.

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Speaker 1: The team got right to work.

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Speaker 3: I start to develop informants and I'm sending them in

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Speaker 3: seeing which ones take which ones don't. And I've got

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Speaker 3: several good informants inside the compound by the first of August.

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Speaker 1: And in the summer of nineteen eighty four, while Weene

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Speaker 1: was embedding informants and working to build a case, Matthews

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Speaker 1: was plotting his next move.

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Speaker 3: Bob Matthews and his group have decided they're going to

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Speaker 3: move forward for another armored car robbery, and this one's

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Speaker 3: going to be the granddaddy of all robberies.

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Speaker 1: The target was a Brinks truck that take could be millions.

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Speaker 3: Unbeknownst to us, Bob has recruited two people that worked

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Speaker 3: for brinch headquarters. They're giving him all the inside information

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Speaker 3: he needs. Now. They tell Bob there's a truck heading

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Speaker 3: up a state pass over near Santa Rosa, California, and

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Speaker 3: it's right for robbery.

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Speaker 1: It was the type of mountain pass where you had

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Speaker 1: to slow down, so that's exactly where they decided to strike.

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Speaker 3: Bob pulled together ten people that are real hitters. They

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Speaker 3: have people stationed along the highway that can announce on

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Speaker 3: their radio. We passed my point. He is really slowing down,

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Speaker 3: and they got these various vehicles. Some of them are

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Speaker 3: up in front of the unit and some of them

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Speaker 3: behind it, and Bob dispatches them at the right time,

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Speaker 3: and so they move up. They force the armored truck

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Speaker 3: on the steep part of the highway off the road,

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Speaker 3: jump out, fully armed and They blocked the highway from

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Speaker 3: both directions.

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Speaker 1: With rifles aimed and keeping traffic at a standstill. They

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Speaker 1: lifted a sign into the air and.

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Speaker 3: The sign says, get out, up or die. One of

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Speaker 3: the guys jumps up on the hood of the armored

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Speaker 3: car and opens fire into the windows, and he's blasting

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Speaker 3: out the windows. The guys inside the truck are terrified.

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Speaker 3: They open the doors and they get out and they

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Speaker 3: lay them on the ground. Now cars are starting to

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Speaker 3: stack up on the highway, so there's somebody in the

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Speaker 3: back of the truck that's got to open the door.

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Speaker 3: It happens it's a woman. She doesn't open the truck door,

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Speaker 3: and so they open fire on the back windows of

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Speaker 3: that truck. She opens the door, Bob Matthews jumps inside

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Speaker 3: and they line up in a caravan. Bob's throwing out

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Speaker 3: money and they're passing throwing it, and he goes to

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Speaker 3: the trunk of a car and one guy has got

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Speaker 3: a stopwatch and he's counting the seconds. Twenty seconds, twenty

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Speaker 3: five seconds, thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: They plotted every detail down to how many seconds they'd

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Speaker 1: have before police would arrive. But even precision doesn't always

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Speaker 1: proven mistakes.

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Speaker 3: Bob's got a pistol shoved into the back of his pants,

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Speaker 3: and in the process of bending over getting these bags

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Speaker 3: of money and throwing them out, they're pretty heavy, the

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Speaker 3: pistol falls out. He doesn't know it. Finally they figure, okay,

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Speaker 3: that's time, let's go and if billions of dollars left

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Speaker 3: in the truck. But they got what they could get.

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Speaker 3: Now they're going to leave.

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Speaker 1: They vanished up the mountain road.

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Speaker 3: They got three point six million dollars out of that.

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Speaker 1: Robbery left in their wake or shell casings, a terrified

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Speaker 1: Brink's crew, and the gun. It didn't take long before

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Speaker 1: the FBI had it.

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Speaker 3: We traced the gun, we find out it was sold

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Speaker 3: to a guy named Andrew Barnhill, find out everything we

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Speaker 3: can about him, and we find where he was arrested

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Speaker 3: in Madrid, Oregon. He had checked into a hotel and

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Speaker 3: picked up a prostitute and that's how he ended up

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Speaker 3: getting questioned and arrested. But on his motel receipt he

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Speaker 3: listed an address in Laclead, Idaho.

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Speaker 1: Just an hour north of the compound. Wayne had watched

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Speaker 1: in Courdeline. His team headed up, but they weren't the

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Speaker 1: first ones to get there.

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Speaker 3: The neighbors tell me, well, there was about a dozen

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Speaker 3: people here just two days ago. They left. They were

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Speaker 3: there two days before we got there, in that house

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Speaker 3: fully armed. Had we showed up and they were there,

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Speaker 3: you could imagine that would have been a terrible gun battle.

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Speaker 1: Having just missed their suspects. They searched the house where

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Speaker 1: Wayne found something odd that peaud his interest.

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Speaker 3: So I'm searching this place and I find a little

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Speaker 3: box and it's got Andrew Barnes's most personal stuff in it,

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Speaker 3: even his baby teeth in an envelope. But on the

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Speaker 3: bottom of this ste of all this stuff is a

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Speaker 3: newspaper clipping cut out with scissors, and it's on the

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Speaker 3: armored car robbery in Seattle Bingo. Now, who's gonna do

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Speaker 3: that unless it's got real meaning to him? Yep, So

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Speaker 3: we know we're onto the right path.

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Speaker 1: The pieces to this puzzle were all about to come together.

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Speaker 3: Call everybody together at our headquarters office in Butte, Montana.

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Speaker 3: We got everybody together. We got a blackboard up there.

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Speaker 3: The secretary says, when you've got an important call from

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Speaker 3: the office in Philadelphia and it's FBI agent lou vs

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Speaker 3: good agent. He had gotten a call from Secret Service.

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Speaker 3: They just captured a guy passing Bob's counterfeit money. Guy's

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Speaker 3: name is Tom Martinez.

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Speaker 1: And Tom Martinez had a lot to say.

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Speaker 3: Guy says there's an art organization involved. He's more worried

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Speaker 3: about what the organization will do to him than what

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Speaker 3: we could do to him.

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Speaker 1: During the interview, Martinez said something that would label this

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Speaker 1: case forever.

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Speaker 3: Martinez is a member of a group called The Order.

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Speaker 3: The Order is a group that was formed by Bob

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Speaker 3: Matthews based on a book that was written by a

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Speaker 3: guy named William Pearce. Now, this guy wrote a book

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Speaker 3: called The Turner Diaries, and Turner Diaries is a fictional

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Speaker 3: book about a group of guys. They get together and

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Speaker 3: they form a little army. They want to kill all

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Speaker 3: the Jews and take over the United States.

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Speaker 1: This book became a sacred text for white supremacists to

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Speaker 1: cross the country. Here's Michael Jensen again.

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Speaker 7: The Turner Diaries tells this fictional story of an anti

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Speaker 7: government group overcoming the tyranny of the US government through

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Speaker 7: large scale violence.

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Speaker 3: Fictionally, they manage to do that, and they take over

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00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 3: an air Force space and they're in controllable missile and

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Speaker 3: eventually they take over the JEdgar Hoover Building in Worston,

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Speaker 3: d C. And they take over the country, and they

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Speaker 3: call themselves the Order.

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Speaker 7: I think it would be hard to find another contemporary

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Speaker 7: text that has been more influential among not only the

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Speaker 7: groups that were active in the late seventies through the

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Speaker 7: mid nineteen nineties, but that are active today. The Turner

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Speaker 7: Diaries is still widely read by.

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Speaker 1: Extremists, and it would become clear that Robert matthews belief

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Speaker 1: system was modeled after those writings.

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Speaker 3: This is his bible. He's doing everything like they do

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Speaker 3: it in this book, and so far he's dead on

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Speaker 3: everything he's done. This book is my guide map.

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Speaker 1: After that phone call, investigators moved and Tom Martinez became

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Speaker 1: a cooperator.

255
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:11,040
Speaker 3: Martinez knows everything. He knows locations, places, he knows Bob Matthews,

256
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Speaker 3: he knows every member of the Order. He's a gold by.

257
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Speaker 1: The FBI finally knew exactly what it was chasing a

258
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 1: terrorist organization, and now they had an informant inside. But

259
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Speaker 1: Bob Matthews was still out there and he had no

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Speaker 1: intention of stopping. The Order was a group that had

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00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: devised a plan for everything including how to evate detection.

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Speaker 3: The order is so organized. They have a guy in

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Speaker 3: their group and he set up a relay for them

264
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,639
Speaker 3: where they can make phone calls from their headquarters office

265
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 3: that are not traceable. They would rent a house, put

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Speaker 3: the phone in the house, and that phone number. They

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00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,679
Speaker 3: called it the bear trap. Each of their members, no

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00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,159
Speaker 3: matter where they are, have to call this one particular

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Speaker 3: phone number every day and check in. Then thirty days

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00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,840
Speaker 3: later they pull out of that in another house, put

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Speaker 3: a different phone number in that house, and that's the

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00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 3: bear trap number that's given to everybody.

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Speaker 1: But by the fall of nineteen eighty four they had

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Speaker 1: started to get sloppy. As Wayne tracked their movements, they

275
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 1: would sometimes slip and call house phones instead.

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Speaker 3: We found that a number of phone calls were made

277
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 3: to a number in Sandpoint, Idaho. We tracked that number down.

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Speaker 3: It's registered guy named Jerry Oldboo, and we set up

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Speaker 3: a ser on this house. After a couple of hours,

280
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,399
Speaker 3: a guy walks out of the house and gets on

281
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 3: a motorcycle and I said, you know who that guy is.

282
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Speaker 3: I get a photo of him right here. It's Gary Yarborough.

283
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 3: That's not a Jerry Old boob. That's Gary Yarborough.

284
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Speaker 1: The same guy Wayne had spotted in the Spokane armored

285
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 1: truck robbery. And now they watched him drive across the

286
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 1: street to use a payphone, even though there was a

287
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 1: working landline inside.

288
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 3: Why does the guy who's got a perfectly good phone

289
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,919
Speaker 3: in his house get on a motorcycle drive two hundred

290
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 3: yards to a payphone and make a phone call. We

291
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,440
Speaker 3: got to get a dump off that payphone, so we do,

292
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 3: and I find the number that was called was to

293
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:51,640
Speaker 3: a place in Boise. That's where the counterfeitters are staying.

294
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 3: Right there.

295
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: Everything was starting to align, and as he tracked Gary Yarborough,

296
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 1: Wayne's wall of evidence canntinued to grow.

297
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,480
Speaker 3: We found out he had a storage facility in court

298
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 3: a lane. So I got a surreptitious search warrant. It's

299
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 3: a search warrant that allows you to make a surreptitious entry,

300
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,360
Speaker 3: search the place and lead so nobody ever knows you searched.

301
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,879
Speaker 1: It surreptitious or a secret. And I can tell you

302
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 1: that getting one of those is definitely not the norm

303
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,160
Speaker 1: and harder to obtain.

304
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 3: I searched it and back in the corner I found

305
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 3: a silencer that would fit them back ten.

306
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: The same weapon used to kill Denver talk radio host

307
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 1: Alan Berg.

308
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,159
Speaker 3: I went up inside it. I initial it and dated

309
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 3: it where you'd never see it. I put it back

310
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 3: and backed out.

311
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 1: It was also becoming clear that Yarborough was getting nervous.

312
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 3: As surveillances often work, At some point in time, he

313
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 3: must have got suspicious that were following him. He suddenly,

314
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 3: overnight moves out of this house that we've been watching,

315
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 3: and he shows up in a house next to the

316
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 3: National Forest boundary northwest of Standpoint.

317
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Speaker 1: The Forest Service confirmed the location. Suddenly things escalated.

318
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 3: An agent named Mike Johnston drives in there and he's

319
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 3: got two agents with him. What he's trying to do

320
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 3: is just get a look at the place. He drives

321
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 3: very close to the house and Gary Yarborough comes out

322
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 3: with a forty five and opens fire on him.

323
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:42,120
Speaker 1: Luckily, no one was hit. Agents temporarily pulled back. They

324
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: returned later that night, but he had slipped away.

325
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 3: Unbeknownst to us, Gary Yarborough was standing outside the house

326
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 3: when they came in on the raid, so he dived

327
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 3: into a ditch and made his way to a place

328
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 3: where he could call anywhere. Bob Matthews had him picked up.

329
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 3: And while we're doing the search in the house, Gary

330
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 3: has escaped.

331
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 1: But what he left behind was startling.

332
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 3: Inside his house, we find a shrine to Hitler's room

333
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 3: and it's got a huge Nazi flag on the wall,

334
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 3: and then it's got Nazi shoulder and signis and pictures

335
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 3: of Hitler on the walls, and then it's got the

336
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 3: mac tin on a table.

337
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: Remember, Matthews had ordered him to get rid of the gun,

338
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: but instead Yarborough held onto it as a trophy part

339
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: of his twisted shrine.

340
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 3: Well break, So we've got the weapon. We send it

341
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 3: off to the lab and they'll be able to compare

342
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 3: it against the bullets that were recovered from Alan Birch's body.

343
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: While Ween and his team were on the Order's trail,

344
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: it's leader, Bob Matthews was staying one step ahead.

345
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 3: Well, Yard Brool gets away, but we've got this valuable

346
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 3: piece of evidence and Matthews has been notified. Sol Matthews

347
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 3: says where it wore.

348
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 1: Matthew's called the counterfeiting house, which unbeknownst to him, had

349
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: already been compromised.

350
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: He calls and says abandon the residents immediately take the

351
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 3: printing press, take all the papers, everything, and get out

352
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 3: of there. So they run a U haul trailer and

353
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 3: they put the printing press in the trailer. They take

354
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 3: all the documents and everything, and they abandon the house.

355
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 3: But I got a team of agents watching the house,

356
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: and frankly, I want to start taking people down.

357
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 1: Wayne's superior didn't agree.

358
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 3: He wants to keep the surveillance and the covert activity going.

359
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: And I'm thinking it's a big mistake. We've got enough stuff.

360
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,239
Speaker 3: It's time to start taking people down and interview it

361
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 3: and examine any evidence.

362
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: The higher ups stood firm, no takedown, not yet.

363
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 3: So our agents follow the U haul trailer with all

364
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: that stuff and they stop and they go into a

365
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 3: hotel to make some phone calls. While they're making a

366
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 3: phone call in a lounge, two guys come in and

367
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: sit down at a table relatively close to where they are.

368
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: Before agents could move in, the men got nervous and left.

369
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: They walked out of the hotel, unhitched the U haul

370
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: and drove away. Wayne's men followed but eventually lost them.

371
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: The trailer they left behind was seized, and when agents

372
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: searched it, they found a gold mine.

373
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: We got a U haul with the printing press and

374
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 3: tons of information. That's very incriminating because this is their

375
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: headquarters office.

376
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: It was evidence of the orders inner workings, but most

377
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: of their members had disappeared, slipping from one safe house

378
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: to another. But soon Wayne got his next unexpected break.

379
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: We find another phone call from a payphone. This phone

380
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 3: number is in Troy, Montana. By the time we get there,

381
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 3: the house is abandoned.

382
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: But an unsettling sign was left behind.

383
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: There's a fire pit, and there's a cardboard fixture of

384
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 3: a state trooper on a tree, and it's been all

385
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 3: shot up. So I pick up all the brass on

386
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 3: the ground. Then I go over and I dig some

387
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: bullets out of the tree, and I send the bullets

388
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 3: and the casings off the FBI headquarters.

389
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: As they sifted through the fire pit, Wayne and his

390
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: team turned up more than just shellcasings. They uncovered another.

391
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: Clue, partially burnt piece of paper. It's got an address

392
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 3: on it, So we go to that address. Find out

393
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: this is a guy that trains dogs and he identifies

394
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: from a photograph. He picks out one of Bruce Carroll

395
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 3: Peers and he says, they've got this big Rottwiler dog

396
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 3: and he left it here for me to train it,

397
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: and he gave me six thousand dollars and said he'd

398
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 3: pick it up later. He said, well, do you have

399
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 3: the six thousand? Yeah, I do, and so let me

400
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: see it. He brings it to me. It's got wrappers

401
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: on it that matched the money stolen out of the

402
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 3: brake truck.

403
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: Now there's a break. We got the evidence, and soon

404
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: there was even more. The casings recovered from the cardboard

405
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: State Trooper target had been analyzed at the lab.

406
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 3: They come back and say, up, these casings and bullets

407
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 3: were fired from this gun they killed Allenburg. Jeez. So

408
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 3: now we got the gun matching the bullets out of

409
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: Allenberg's body, and we got these casings and everything that

410
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: we took from Bruce Carrol Pears's house. Everything started to

411
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 3: go together pretty good.

412
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: You know, from money spent at dog Kennel's to ballistics.

413
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: The case against the order was getting stronger by the day.

414
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: All that was left to do now was catch Matthew's crew,

415
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: and the FBI finally caught a break with Tom Martinez,

416
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: Wayne's informant.

417
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 3: In November. Martinez gets a phone call. Bob Matthews says,

418
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: I want you to come and join me. Meet me

419
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 3: in Portland. I'll meet you at the airport.

420
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: The FBI made sure Martinez wasn't going on his own.

421
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: They booked him a flight, wired the motel, and then

422
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: stayed close. But once Matthews showed up, plans changed.

423
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 3: Bob Matthews made him at the airport and he takes

424
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 3: him to his car. Gary Yarborough is in the car

425
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 3: with a rifle, military style rifle. Martinez is scared to

426
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: death because he's always been worried about Yarborough, had a

427
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 3: lot of fear of him. They start to driving away

428
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: from the airport and he says, here's where I'm staying.

429
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 3: He's got the address that we had set up and everything.

430
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: Bob says to him, no, you're not. You're gonna be

431
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 3: staying where we're staying, the Capri Hotel. We're right above

432
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 3: you in room fourteen. That's where you're going. So now

433
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: he's panicked because he thinks we don't know where he is.

434
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: As soon as they arrived at the Caprime Hotel, Matthews

435
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: took Tom Martinez upstairs to one of the rooms.

436
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 3: And The room is filled with guns, ammunition, explosives, paperwork

437
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 3: stacked up along the walls, and they begin to make

438
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 3: the pitch to him. You know, you give you one

439
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: of us now, and you will never regret this, because

440
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 3: you're going to be a person with a position of importance.

441
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: Martinez was panicked, unsure what to do next. He stayed

442
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: in his room until that evening, then slipped out to

443
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: grab a bite.

444
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: He walks in the cross shop to get something to eat,

445
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 3: and he looks across the counter and he sees one

446
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 3: of the agents that had interviewed him. She passes a

447
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 3: word to him. Everything's Fine's go back to your room,

448
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: don't leave again. Just sit tight because everything's gonna come down.

449
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: Martinez went back to the motel and waited. The takedown

450
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: began before dawn in a corner of northeast Portland. Law

451
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: enforcement arrived at the Capri Hotel. Two of the most

452
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: wanted domestic terrorists in the country. We're asleep inside.

453
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: The night that they flew in. Our surveillance group picked

454
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 4: them up when they landed at Portland and they rented

455
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 4: a vehicle and then drove to the Capri Hotel.

456
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: And as soon as agents touched down. They were preparing

457
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: to move in. Here's one of those agents.

458
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: My name is Kenneth Loven Lvin and at the time

459
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: I was assigned as a supervisory special Agent with the

460
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 4: FBI to the Portland Division.

461
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: Ken was newly assigned to the case.

462
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 4: I received a call from the supervisor and he briefed

463
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 4: me that there would be a couple of individuals flying

464
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 4: into Portland, Oregon that night. They were a part of

465
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: a very dangerous group known as the Order, the White

466
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 4: Supremacist organization.

467
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: And now they were in Ken's jurisdiction.

468
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 4: We observed them check in to the Caprix Hotel. We

469
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 4: made contact with the manager of the Caprix Hotel and

470
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 4: determined that they had a seven am wake up call

471
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 4: the next morning.

472
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: The plan was to wait until morning and then either

473
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: intercept them or followed them as they left the motel,

474
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: but Matthews had his own plan. At five point thirty am,

475
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: he opened his door.

476
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 4: Robert Matthews stepped out and I had agents dispersed in

477
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 4: various rooms on the second floor of the Capri Hotel.

478
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 4: It was basically dark, and he looked around, went to

479
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 4: the railing overlooking the parking lot, looked for anything that

480
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 4: might be suspicious in his mind, and then he re

481
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 4: entered his room.

482
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: Moments later Matthews re emerged.

483
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 4: He came out again alone, closed the door, started walking

484
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 4: down the gangway. He walked right by a room that

485
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: I was in with other agents, and we decided that

486
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 4: when he got a few steps further, we were going

487
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 4: to grab him, take him, and then go over and

488
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 4: approach Yarborough in his room. Well in that noise was

489
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 4: of course created and I was shouting FBI wheese, do

490
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 4: not move, and Robert Matthews immediately gave flight.

491
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 3: Bob jumps over the rails and takes off running down

492
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 3: the street and two agents are following him at a

493
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: fast pace.

494
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 4: He was running as fast as he could run.

495
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: The chase was on. Matthews tore through the neighborhood with

496
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: FBI agents close behind.

497
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 3: The front guy is armed with a handgun. Kenneth Lovin

498
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 3: is carrying a shotgun. They're moving in on Bob.

499
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 4: I chased him for about four or five blocks. Well,

500
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 4: this time it is becoming just very first light of

501
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: the morning.

502
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: Bob suddenly makes a turner's about an eight foot wall

503
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: that encompasses the yard. He makes a sharp right turn

504
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: behind that wall and then button hooks and comes back.

505
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: He comes around the corner with a pistol.

506
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 4: I heard gunfire. The agent yelled out, I have been hit.

507
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 3: The agent is down.

508
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: Fortunately the wound wasn't critical. As Ken got close to

509
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: his injured colleague, he suddenly detected movement.

510
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: Robert Matthews had been hiding behind a large cement wall

511
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 4: covered with ivy. All I could see is one hand

512
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 4: with a handgun in it. He was about to shoot

513
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: again at my fellow agent, and I yelled, and at

514
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 4: that he cranked off either two or three rounds at me.

515
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 4: I then returned fire with my shotgun, basically blowing off

516
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 4: his right hand.

517
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: But even that didn't stop him.

518
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: Matthews turns and runs. Kenneth gives aid and support to

519
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 3: the wounded agent.

520
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: He wasn't bleeding profusely. He wasn't in a life threatening situation.

521
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: Bob flags down a car. His hand is bleeding and

522
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: he tells the guy, I caught my hand and the

523
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: fan belt in my car. Can you get me to

524
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: a hospital? And the guy says, yeah, jump in.

525
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: And that's where he was last seen by anybody that

526
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: we could identify.

527
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: And just like that, A bleeding but very much alive

528
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: Bob Matthews disappeared into the cloudy Portland terrain. For the FBI,

529
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: this manhunt was only just beginning. Agents fanned out in

530
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: canvass the surrounding area, and when they questioned a local

531
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: gas station clerk.

532
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 4: The gas station attendant said he had severely injured himself.

533
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 4: There was blood all over the paper towels, and he

534
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 4: seemed to be an excruciating pain. He approached a couple

535
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 4: and they were en route to Mount Hood's ski facility.

536
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 4: Matthews asked him if they would be kind enough to

537
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 4: give him a ride up the road, and he said,

538
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 4: if you'll let me out, I'll go to my house

539
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 4: and I'll get some assistance. And they gave him a

540
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 4: ride for about four or five miles. He finally said,

541
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 4: my home is just off the highway here a short

542
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 4: distance back in the trees. So the Good Samaritans lay

543
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 4: out and that was the last they saw.

544
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: Of Matthews had once again slipped through the FBI's fingers,

545
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: but they kept moving in getting closer each time. They

546
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: found the couple by tracing their credit card and began

547
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: to scour the mountain and we.

548
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 4: Spent hours and hours and hours. We stayed in that

549
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 4: neighborhood for the rest of the night, and the next

550
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: day we found a cabin type home that we saw

551
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 4: a couple vehicles go in and out during the day

552
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 4: and always was males, not couples, and so we began

553
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 4: to focus our attention on one home in that area

554
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 4: that we thought could be what we were looking for.

555
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: And as they watched the cabin, a white pickup truck

556
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: pulled out of the driveway.

557
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 4: We had an air surveillance as well his ground surveillance

558
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 4: on that vehicle. We followed it for probably forty miles.

559
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 4: We decided that we would try to make a car stop,

560
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 4: but before we could get our vehicles in a position,

561
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 4: he exited the interstate and started going down dirt roads.

562
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 4: He had obviously made the surveillance and was trying to

563
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 4: shake us, so I lit him up with the lights

564
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 4: and he stopped. We determined very quickly he was a

565
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 4: member of the klu Klux Klan. There was a warrant

566
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 4: for him, and we had a sought off shotgun in

567
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 4: the back of his pickup.

568
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: Ken and his team brought in the driver and by

569
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: later that night they'd struck a deal.

570
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 4: He would provide us how many people and who all

571
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 4: they were by name, and that they had gone up

572
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 4: to the Seattle area. He was to make contact the

573
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: next morning, to be taken later that afternoon to a

574
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 4: place out on Woodbey Island.

575
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: We'd be Island is a remote area of coastline north

576
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: of Seattle, Washington, and now the likely refuge of an

577
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: armed separatist preparing for battle. Bob Matthews had been ready

578
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: in his troops.

579
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 3: He pulls them all together and he tells them we

580
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 3: are now in a full state of war. Our demand

581
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: of Congress is going to be that they give us

582
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 3: five Northwestern states which will be under our care, control

583
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 3: and custody. These will no longer be states of the

584
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: United States of America, and that we demand this or

585
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 3: there's going to be massy chaos, massive loss of life.

586
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: Because we have a plan.

587
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: For days, the house on would Be Islands sat under

588
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: Federal watch agents observed from tree lines, Coastguard patrols sealed

589
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: off the water.

590
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 4: The FBI's hostage rescue team from Washington, DC took charge

591
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 4: of the whole scene. Or two and a half three

592
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 4: more days just surveilling that house and making sure that

593
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 4: no one came out that wasn't apprehended.

594
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: And one by one, members of the order were arrested.

595
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 4: Slowly but surely. We picked off the group one or

596
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 4: two at a time as they would go to maybe

597
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 4: get groceries or supplies, and we would stop them and

598
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 4: arrest them. So I'm sure that that became a clue

599
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: to Robert Matthews that once you leave here, they were

600
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 4: being picked off by law enforcement.

601
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: Until only one man remained.

602
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: Bob Matthews will not surrender, he refuses.

603
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: Hostage negotiators tried to get him to leave the house,

604
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: but were unsuccessful. As night fell, the lead negotiator decided

605
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: it was time to switch tactics.

606
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 3: Turns to me. He says, Wayne, there's no hostage anymore,

607
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 3: so I can't stay here and Bob will not surrender.

608
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 3: So it's decided that we will employ swap teams try

609
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 3: to get about.

610
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: They converged from all over.

611
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: We had swapped teams from Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles,

612
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 3: Salt Lake City, Denver, and Butte, which was the swap

613
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 3: team I.

614
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 4: Was on, and we had the house completely surrounded with

615
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 4: the exception of the back of the house because you

616
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 4: had to walk no further than maybe ten or twelve steps,

617
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 4: and it was about a two hundred foot drop off

618
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 4: right down to the shoreline of Puget Sound, So we

619
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 4: were not concerned that anyone could come out of that

620
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 4: and escape.

621
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: The FBI began to move in.

622
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 4: We deployed tear gas for over an hour, and we

623
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 4: saw our detective no movement, no sounds of him moving

624
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 4: around or anything. Then we decided we would elevate to

625
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 4: a higher concentration and more volume of tear gas was

626
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 4: then administered within the residence. That went on for period

627
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 4: of two two and a half.

628
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: Hours, but Matthews didn't come out. So they next sent

629
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: canine officers and their dogs into the house.

630
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 4: And the dog supposedly could handle tear gas and was

631
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: not affected by it. The owner stayed on the main

632
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: floor and the dog went through every room up in

633
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 4: the house and did not react to any type of

634
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: human presence or someone that was alive. That made us

635
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 4: believe that Matthews might have succumbed to excessive tear gas.

636
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: And SWAT took it from there.

637
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 3: One agent throws a flash bang and grenade through a

638
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 3: window into the ground floor. It's a type of thing

639
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 3: that's got such a shock value that people actually just freeze.

640
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 3: And the team goes in through the front door, and

641
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 3: I ducked the windows out on the side guindow, so

642
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 3: I've got them covered as they're going in.

643
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: Then just as they entered the ground floor.

644
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 4: Robert Matthews opened up with an AR fifteen and shot

645
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 4: through the floor down into the main floor of the home.

646
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 3: At that point, I had made some racket and Bob

647
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 3: Matthews knew where I was because he could hear the noise,

648
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 3: so he opened fire on me, and I took about

649
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: five or ten rounds just inches above my head. Debris

650
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: fell on top of the wool hat I was wearing

651
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 3: where the bullets passed through.

652
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: All we could do was try and take cover.

653
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 3: We can't shoot because we don't have a target. That's

654
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 3: an FBI premise. You might be able to see what

655
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 3: you're shooting at. He can't shoot it a sound, but

656
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: he was shooting that sounds. Then another agent off to

657
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 3: the left of me, about fifteen feet inside the house

658
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: in the corner. He ran across the house to the

659
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: other side. When he did that made a noise, and

660
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 3: Bob opened up and took out that corner where he'd

661
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 3: been standing.

662
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: Agents scrambled to shield themselves from the barrage of gunfire

663
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: as they strategized their next move.

664
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 4: Fortunately, no agents were hit and they immediately vacated the house, so.

665
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 3: We pulled out went back into the woods to make

666
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 3: another ploy as it got dark that night.

667
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: Matthews had military training, heavy weapons and showed every sign

668
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: he'd fight to the death, but that wouldn't stop the agents.

669
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 3: Darkness came and we decided to bring helicopters in.

670
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 4: The helicopter flew out over Puget Sound and illuminated the

671
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 4: rear of the house with a huge ten thousand kindlepower spotlight.

672
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 3: Helicopters are very frightening when they sit right down on

673
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: top of you. That's what we did, set them right

674
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 3: down on top of the roof, blowing shingles off the roof.

675
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 1: But even the helicopters did work.

676
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 4: Matthews opened up on the helicopter with his AR fifteen.

677
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 4: Helicopter immediately left the area.

678
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: Then he turned his rifle back towards the ground.

679
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 3: Bob went over and he opened fire on the team

680
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 3: on the west side of the building. They fired back

681
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: I'm standing in a little patch of trees. He must

682
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 3: have had night vision equipment. He opens up on me

683
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: from the upstairs went down, bulletsters slapping into the trees

684
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: around me, and I've got an MPK five, fully automatic,

685
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 3: so I open up into his muzzle fire, firing bursts

686
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 3: of five rounds, and he's doing about the same. And

687
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 3: I can't figure out why he's not down because I

688
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: was a very good shot and I was shooting directly

689
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: into his muzzle blasts. But I found out he did

690
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 3: have body armor. He was probably hurt, but we were

691
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 3: killing him. They fired the flare into the house to

692
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: light up the bottom of the house so we could

693
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 3: see if he went downstairs.

694
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: That caused a fire, and it was spreading quickly, and.

695
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: We're standing there twenty yards apart, just firing back and forth,

696
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 3: fire burning in a house down below. Then the fire

697
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 3: reaches the upstairs area, and I can hear rounds being

698
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 3: popped off, because that's what they do when fire gets

699
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 3: to them. The realms explode, the bullets go somewhere, and

700
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: it sounded like there were a thousand or more bullets

701
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: going every witch direction until eventually it was just quiet,

702
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:38,959
Speaker 3: and I stood there.

703
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: Bob Matthews never came out of that house.

704
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 3: And the cabin burned, burned, burned to the ground. And

705
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 3: I stood there all night with my rifle shouldered, and

706
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 3: then at first daylight I walked forward and when I

707
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 3: got to the cabin, there at the edge of the

708
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: foundation was re forced iron tobb ceramic inside that had

709
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 3: fallen from the upstairs floor to the ground stairs floor,

710
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 3: and Bob's body was inside it.

711
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 4: He had submerged himself in a bathtub using a straw

712
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 4: like device to breathe air, but it cooked him live.

713
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: The manhunt was officially over here again, his former special

714
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 1: agent Ken Lovin.

715
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever done anything. I don't believe

716
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 4: anyone else had. For that duration of time twenty four

717
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 4: to seven that we were literally on edge and we

718
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 4: knew that any mishap somebody would be killed at any

719
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 4: given time was extremely high tension.

720
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: For Wayne too. It was complicated.

721
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 3: It was a really mixed emotion thing. I was glad

722
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 3: there was no probability that he was going to kill

723
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 3: one of us. I was sad that he didn't just surrender,

724
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 3: and I could have sat down and had an opportunity

725
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 3: to question him to have all my questions answered that

726
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 3: only he could answer.

727
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 1: Once the fire went cold, they just packed up and

728
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 1: moved on.

729
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 4: That's the way it is. There was no downtime, no

730
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 4: vacation time, There was nothing. When this one was over,

731
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 4: we went right back into the next biggest fish that

732
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 4: we could catch.

733
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: But Bob Matthews and all the hate and danger he

734
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: represented stayed with them. Without their leader, would the order survive.

735
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 3: They were dedicated to him, but they weren't committed to

736
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 3: the cause. Bob was committed to the cause. They used

737
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 3: to tell an old joke. They'd say that when you

738
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: sit down to breakfast of ham and eggs, the chicken

739
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 3: they gave you those eggs was dedicated. The hog they

740
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: gave you that ham was committed. Bob was committed.

741
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: Bob Matthews was dead, but his cause and his followers

742
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: didn't die with him, and neither did the threat.

743
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: They had an organization of people that were counterfeiting Robin banks,

744
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 3: cash couriers, armored car trucks. They did assassinations, they did bombings,

745
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: and when you think about it, that's a rarity you

746
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 3: seldom come across an organization that crosses so many criminal lines.

747
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: And no one had yet been held accountable for Allenberg's murder.

748
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: The man who was believed to have pulled the trigger,

749
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: Bruce Carrol Pearce, was still out there and he was

750
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: Wayne's next target. That opportunity came when Pierce was arrested

751
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Wayne went down to interview.

752
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 3: Him, and he admitted to every crime that he and

753
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: the others had committed.

754
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: Pierce confessed to armored car robberies, the counterfeiting operation, and

755
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: his key role in the Order's violent campaign, but he

756
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: stopped short when it came to Allenberg's murder.

757
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 3: I knew that he was the trigger man. He said, Well,

758
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 3: let me ask you. If a man was the trigger man,

759
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 3: and that man confessed and cooperated in the trial, could

760
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 3: that man be guaranteed that he wouldn't get the death penalty?

761
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 3: And the only thing I could tell him was I said,

762
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 3: in that scenario, I would take the cooperation to the

763
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: United States attorney, who can take it to the federal

764
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: judge and a decision can be made. But I can't

765
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: make that promise, And he said, I want a lawyer

766
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: before we discussed the Allenburg matter.

767
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 1: That's where the converse station ended. But the case against

768
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 1: the Order now began that September in Seattle. In nineteen

769
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: eighty five, ten Order members stood trial together in what

770
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: became the government's sweeping RICO case against the group. Alan

771
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: Berg's murder became a part of that case.

772
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 8: The Denver murderers was included in the indictment as murder

773
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 8: under the Denver statutes. And you're allowed to do that

774
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 8: under RICO because it incorporates that crime as part of

775
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 8: a pattern of racketeering activities. So they weren't charged separately

776
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 8: with the murder, I mean in a separate murder trial.

777
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: That's Gene Wilson, the federal prosecutor who tried the Order.

778
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 1: All the various crimes were presented together as pieces of

779
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: the overall conspiracy.

780
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 8: The evidence was pretty blatant. There's, of course the Burg murder.

781
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 8: There were various are on robberies. There was transporting property

782
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 8: across state lines, which is a federal crime covered in RICO.

783
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 8: There was counterfeiting. We were fairly confident going into it

784
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 8: that some of the crimes that they had committed were

785
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 8: so horrible that the jury would be very likely to

786
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 8: find them guilty.

787
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: And they did. Bruce Carroll Pierce was convicted on racketeering

788
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: and conspiracy charges. He was sentenced to two hundred and

789
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: fifty two years. David Lane received one hundred and ninety.

790
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: Gary Yarborough got eighty five. Seven other members of the

791
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: order were also convicted and received decades long terms. The

792
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: actual case of Allenberg's murder stayed in state hands, and

793
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,240
Speaker 1: after the federal convictions, that case was never tried.

794
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 8: They got so much of a sentence in this case

795
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 8: a Denver local attorneys and US attorneys, that was probably

796
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 8: not necessary to do that.

797
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: In the eyes of many, overall justice had been served.

798
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: But to those who knew Alan, like his close friend

799
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: Peter Boyles, something had been left unresolved.

800
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 5: No one ever stood trial for the murder of allen Burg,

801
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 5: No one ever did. I was so angry. That's stupid,

802
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 5: racist bastards could kill that gun. I was stunned by that.

803
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 5: That was when I was sitting in this federal courtroom

804
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 5: looking thinking, look at you, like these were just losers

805
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 5: everyone else.

806
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: The verdict affected people differently. For some, it stirred frustration.

807
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: For others, like Wayne Mannis, it marked the end of

808
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,720
Speaker 1: a relentless pursuit. But he knows the fight is still

809
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: far from over.

810
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 3: It was the most significant verdict of my career. But

811
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 3: I knew in my heart, I knew it's not over.

812
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 3: There's thousands of people that feel the same way that

813
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 3: these people do, and all it would take is just

814
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 3: a spark and the fuel from a charismatic leader to

815
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 3: reignite it and be part back again. And I feel

816
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 3: that way today.

817
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: The true threat is the ideology, and Wayne knows if

818
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: history is any indication that ideology didn't die in the

819
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: courtroom in the eyes of the order. They were waging

820
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: a rightful war against the government, but at its root

821
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: was hate and bigotry, and it was a war that

822
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: left very real victims like alan Berg.

823
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 5: When I say it changed everything in my life, it

824
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 5: changed everything. I mean, it was still radio. It was fun,

825
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 5: it was a kick and he asked. We had a

826
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 5: great time, but it was there was a hole in

827
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 5: my soul that he wasn't there years ago.

828
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 3: I'm eighty one.

829
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 5: Now you know he's part of the mist. Now he's

830
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 5: part of the legacy of what happened.

831
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 9: I don't think I'm anything but alan Berg. I refuse

832
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 9: to accept the label. There's nothing connected with my whole

833
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 9: life that represents labels none. In fact, the fact that

834
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 9: I've been in this ten years, with my style, my

835
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 9: outspoken behavior, and some very difficult times that I've gone through,

836
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 9: I feel blessed that I had ten years of this.

837
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 9: If I never worked another day, I'm a very lucky

838
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 9: man to have been able to do what I do

839
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 9: is my truth.

840
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: Alan Berg was a voice that cut through the noise,

841
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 1: and for some that made him dangerous, for others unforgettable.

842
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 6: Alan Berg was a purveyor of words, was a purveyor

843
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 6: of ideas. You can't kill words, and you can't kill ideas.

844
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: The order may have been dismantled, Bob Matthews may have

845
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: gone downs, but the bigotry didn't die with them. In

846
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: the years to come, that ideology would inspire new enemies,

847
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: driven by a different cause, but fueled by the same beliefs.

848
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: But in the shadows, another group driven by hate was

849
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: about to strike Manhattan.

850
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 2: Next time on Law and Order, criminal justice system.

851
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 3: I felt the whole building heave, It actually lifted.

852
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 6: One of the first things I saw was a crater

853
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 6: at one hundred and twenty some feet in diameter. There

854
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 6: was a litany of more serious injuries, cardiac arrests, concussion injuries,

855
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 6: trauma from the explosion itself, plus fractured and broken bones.

856
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 3: Actually saw a ripple go across the Hudson River.

857
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 5: They located the VIN number off the writer's rock that

858
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 5: was used in the bombing and the rest of the case.

859
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 2: Blossomed Law and Order Criminal Justice System is a production

860
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. Our host is Anna

861
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: Sega Nicolaze. The show was written by Cooper Mall, Executive

862
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: produced by Dick Wolf Elliot Wolf and Stephen Michael at

863
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment on behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Executive producers Trevor

864
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 2: Young and Matt Frederick, with supervising producer Chandler Mays and

865
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 2: producer Jesse Funk. This season is executive produced by Anna

866
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 2: Sega Nicolazi. Our researchers are Luke Stantz and Carolyn Tolmage.

867
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 2: Editing and sound designed by Trevor Young and Jesse Funk.

868
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 2: Original music by John O'Hara, Original theme by Mike Post

869
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: with additional music by Steve Moore and additional voice over

870
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: me Steve Zernkelton. Special thanks to Fox five in New

871
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: York for providing archival material for the show. For more

872
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeart in Wolf Entertainment, visit the iHeartRadio app,

873
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Thanks

874
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: for listening.