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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Elizabeth, how you doing? Yea doing well? How you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm crazy you seem to have good energy. Great, I

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Speaker 2: am great. Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Are you?

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Speaker 2: I was hoping you're asking me that. Yeah, you know you.

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Speaker 4: You and a lot of other people make this the

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Speaker 4: internet joke that the world's like Timeline went askew, and

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Speaker 4: David Bowie passed, sure, Okay, so I've I've heard that,

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, sure, whatever, if you guys want to

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Speaker 4: believe that.

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Speaker 2: I think that's fun, that's cute.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I think it's interesting now because of Jimmy

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Speaker 4: Page connection with David. I didn't know about David Bowie

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Speaker 4: and Jimmy Page. You know, they're both British kind of

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Speaker 4: like esotericas weirdos and the guys who are like into

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Speaker 4: like the dark arts and things like that. Turns out

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Speaker 4: that they were. They were both into Alistair Crowley the magician,

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Speaker 4: like like low key Satanist, the wickedest man in the world,

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Speaker 4: and so apparently they were friendly in the seventies until

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Speaker 4: David Bowie became convinced that Jimmy Page and these young

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Speaker 4: women that were around him, because he was really into

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Speaker 4: like his like zoso uh under witchcraft and underage girls

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Speaker 4: and like heavy and like the dark Arts witchcraft. At

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Speaker 4: this point, so David Bowie became paranoid that Jimmy Page

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Speaker 4: and his what he called his satanic coven intended to

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Speaker 4: steal his bodily fluids, okay, so that they could use

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Speaker 4: them to make the Antichrist. Wow yeah, and so that

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Speaker 4: he didn't want to hang out. And so also it

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Speaker 4: got so bad he went full Howard Hughes and he

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Speaker 4: started keeping not just his bodily fluids, but his urine,

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Speaker 4: another bodily fluid, in his fridge for protection. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if he knows how babies are made, but David

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Speaker 4: Bowie was keeping everything that came out of him on

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Speaker 4: his own person or in his fridge so that Jimmy

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Speaker 4: Page couldn't get his hands on it or having one

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Speaker 4: of his witch's sneak hits and steal it and make

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Speaker 4: the Antichrist. So apparently David Bowie believed he had the

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Speaker 4: power in him, or Jimmy Page had the power in

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Speaker 4: him to draw out of him the ability to make prist.

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Speaker 2: So maybe by he passing he did actually skew the

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Speaker 2: world because he was that's true. Figure. So there you go.

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Speaker 2: There's some now nails for that argument. That probably is true. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: pin that up that they were, you know, trying to

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Speaker 2: be at all track. It does track. It's definitely ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: super ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: Do you want to know what else is ridiculous? Passports

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Speaker 5: understolen identities? Because you know what that never ends?

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Speaker 6: Well unfortunately, I mean sometimes.

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Speaker 5: This is ridiculous crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,

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Speaker 5: and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free and

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Speaker 5: one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I know, I heard that. I heard that too.

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Speaker 5: I'm not going to get political here with you today.

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Speaker 5: I mean, everything is political if we're honest, but that's

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Speaker 5: not happening here. I am, though, going to talk politics.

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Speaker 2: Okay, late twentieth century.

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Speaker 5: British politics line, I know, I really am. I was

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Speaker 5: having a discussion with someone recently about true believers.

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Speaker 2: Is this person? No, I'm talking about like like the

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Speaker 2: Leslie Nopes of the world.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, the ones who see the political process as

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Speaker 5: this like divine, beautiful thing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the hall monitors of the world.

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Speaker 5: Yes, the ones who put their heart into what they

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Speaker 5: see as like service and solutions.

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Speaker 2: High school vice presidents, And it used to.

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Speaker 5: Be that you could pretty honestly say that, like both

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Speaker 5: sides of political arguments wanted the same end result, just

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Speaker 5: different ways to get there. That's a true believer's mindset, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, it's a centrist true believers mindset.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think the true believer thing is very delicate.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to sustain. So, like maybe i'd say, like

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Speaker 5: Jimmy Carter is a big example of someone who held

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Speaker 5: firm in their beliefs, never never dabbled in corruption. Like

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Speaker 5: say what you will about his policies or his actions,

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Speaker 5: but like he had integrity most Yes, yeah, Well, I

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Speaker 5: mean the thing is, you can't say most having integrities

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Speaker 5: like being pregnant. Either have it or you don't. Right, Oh, okay,

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Speaker 5: so I my belief she can't just have like a

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Speaker 5: little like really, don't be a little pregnant.

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Speaker 2: You don't think you have degrees of integrity.

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Speaker 5: I think that how you do one thing is how

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Speaker 5: you do everything.

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Speaker 2: I agree with that, but I think you can have

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Speaker 2: more or less integrity. I don't know. I think it's conditional. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's interesting. That's an interesting spit.

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Speaker 5: That's that is corruption though it's everywhere. Yes, it's always

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Speaker 5: been the and for a lot of people, like most people,

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Speaker 5: it's just too tempting expected.

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Speaker 2: And that's how the world went exactly.

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Speaker 5: So, like you and I were recently talking about a

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Speaker 5: guy that we know who's so perfect that you think

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Speaker 5: there must be something sinister hiding in their sense. You

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Speaker 5: believe like he's smart and handsome and fit and dedicated,

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Speaker 5: like insightful and.

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Speaker 2: Fair because every is going to be a jerk and

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Speaker 2: he's not.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he's had so many opportunities to be an a

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Speaker 5: hole along the way, this hasn't taken him yet.

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Speaker 2: Yes, specific in me.

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Speaker 5: But those those true believers, the ones we want so

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Speaker 5: badly to represent the best in us, we fall for

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Speaker 5: it almost every time. We believe in them, we support them,

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Speaker 5: we rely on them to bring us to like a

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Speaker 5: common vision, but like you know, humans, we fall short,

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Speaker 5: some more publicly than others. Yes, so I'm going to

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Speaker 5: talk to you today about a true believer, okay, with

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Speaker 5: a fall from Greece boiler alert.

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Speaker 2: I love those.

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Speaker 5: So remember a long, long, long long time ago I

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Speaker 5: told you about a drug runner who hit out for

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Speaker 5: decades in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was a very long time. I was a

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Speaker 2: much younger man. You were a younger woman. Yes, I

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Speaker 2: can barely remember us. It was cool, was that? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was cool. It was cool. It was an innocent

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Speaker 2: time weeks ago.

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Speaker 5: So cool that I have another one for you. So

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Speaker 5: some of the elements are similar, but most are way different.

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Speaker 2: Oh I love that way different elements. So cool because

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Speaker 2: it's like it's Hollywood. It's the same, but different, different

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Speaker 2: crime categories.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So the guy today is John Thomas Stonehouse, Stonehouse,

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Speaker 5: John Thomas Stonehouse. He was born in nineteen twenty five

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Speaker 5: in Southampton, England.

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Speaker 2: I hear that happened.

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Speaker 5: English name, John Thomas stone House, very English. So he

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Speaker 5: was a dude as an only child, okay. And he

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Speaker 5: was brought up in a very like left leaning socialist

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Speaker 5: working class.

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Speaker 2: Family, the Hope of the stone House.

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Speaker 5: Yes, his dad was a post office engineer before he

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Speaker 5: became a dockyard engine fitter, a dockyard acting secretary of

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Speaker 5: his union, n good Maid Union. His mom was no slouch.

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Speaker 5: She started off as a scullery maid, but then she

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Speaker 5: went on to become the Mayor of Southampton a seat

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Speaker 5: on their city council.

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Speaker 2: That's serious time. She's a serious business.

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Speaker 5: She's a bouse. He was a super super smart student

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Speaker 5: and like really charming and charismatic. When he was sixteen

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Speaker 5: he joined the Labor Party. He loved his country. Sure,

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Speaker 5: he became a trainee pilot in the Royal Air Force.

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Speaker 5: That got him access to the London School of Economics.

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Speaker 5: So he studied economics there, got a degree. But he

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Speaker 5: wasn't just all about academics there, like he had a

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Speaker 5: wild side, or did he?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was chairman of the chess club too. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why I follow every time.

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Speaker 5: Oh, and he was also in the Labor Party society there,

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Speaker 5: so everyone knew he was going to go into politics.

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Speaker 5: And that's all he talked about, like when he wasn't

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Speaker 5: talking about chess. He wanted to be in parliament. He

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Speaker 5: was articulate, like I said earlier, charming, charismatic, perfect for

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Speaker 5: the gig.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to be an MP, an MP see american.

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Speaker 2: You know something about non American anglifier. I'm telling you.

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Speaker 5: He joined the cooperative Movement, which was like a socialist

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Speaker 5: you know, retail and finance collective.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm familiar.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's where he met Barbara Jones Smith. He

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Speaker 5: was twenty two, she was fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, do you want to become a Stonehouse?

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Speaker 5: She was like, what's up, little girl? They got married

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Speaker 5: a year later, in nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 2: She was sixteen.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we're coming out of the warriors. I

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Speaker 5: guess she hit the age of consent whatever, you know.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it was a very different expectation.

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Speaker 5: Yes, So the two of them they went on on

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Speaker 5: like a socialist world tour.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 5: They traveled to all these youth camps across Europe, talking

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Speaker 5: to young people about their idealist vision for cooperative societal structure.

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Speaker 2: Do we still have those youth camps? Sociable?

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Speaker 5: So it was like lefty network, like, you know, and

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Speaker 5: what goes on at the socialist youth camps?

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Speaker 2: I think we both know, Yeah, It'soresoresbeth.

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Speaker 5: In nineteen fifty two, the two of them moved to Uganda.

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Speaker 5: Whoa yeah, So for two years Stonehouse managed the Ugandan

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Speaker 5: Cooperative Society and when his time there was done, the

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Speaker 5: couple moved back to England and he was like stoked

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Speaker 5: on the possibility that he'd crafted with fellow socialists all

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Speaker 5: across the globe.

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Speaker 2: I bet sounds like he's got a strong network. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And so he and his wife they didn't have a shilling,

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Speaker 5: just dreams. Baby, I was gonna say he didn't have

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Speaker 5: a you know, a dime, like of course. Yeah, so

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Speaker 5: Stonehouse he knew what he had to do, what he

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Speaker 5: had to do. He ran for.

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Speaker 2: Office, finally get in there.

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Speaker 5: He was like working all these odd jobs to survive.

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Speaker 5: You know, he got to put pudding on the table totally,

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Speaker 5: but his eyes, eyes were on the prize. In nineteen

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Speaker 5: fifty seven he got elected as Labor and person time

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Speaker 5: for Weinsbury. Now he lost the first time Weinsbury. Later

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Speaker 5: there was like some boundary changes and that became walls

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Speaker 5: all north.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I believe he's like a rising star.

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Speaker 5: He has a beautiful wife, three kids. He's tall. Look

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Speaker 5: at that dude, tall guy, handsome.

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Speaker 2: He said he was in politics.

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Speaker 5: I got articulate, impeccably dressed.

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Speaker 2: So here's the guy. Everyone's like, wow, how does he exist?

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Speaker 5: How does he has all these chances to be in

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Speaker 5: a hole. Yeah. So and people are like, you know what,

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Speaker 5: that guy. One day he's going to be Prime minister.

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Speaker 2: Oh for really he was tall. They're like, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to hang my hope.

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Speaker 5: He's like eight foot six, hang my hopes on this,

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Speaker 5: this this sucker, this long drink in my future. He

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Speaker 5: as a member of Parliament, he distinguished himself.

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Speaker 4: Okay, speeches, well he's so well spoken, eloquent speech about

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Speaker 4: white Man.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, he had these eloquent speeches and he was like, therefore.

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Speaker 2: Insummation and he was like, oh my god.

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Speaker 5: He advocated for development aid and like Commonwealth trade.

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Speaker 2: He's like, therefore trade. They never heard anything like this.

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Speaker 2: He spoke out about the British presence in Kenya. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was like the mau mouse. That was the thing.

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Speaker 5: Not good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like it. Look at that. They're getting mad.

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Speaker 5: And like a really elegant way.

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Speaker 2: Therefore he went to Oxford, where for wis you know

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Speaker 2: who's in what sees? So he bibbity babbadi boo.

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Speaker 5: He quickly rose through party ranks. In February of nineteen

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Speaker 5: fifty nine, Stonehouse went to Rhodesia on a fact finding

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Speaker 5: tours roads. He's like, there are facts there and I'm

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Speaker 5: going to find them.

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Speaker 2: They ain't gonna be one Da Navid.

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Speaker 5: So while he's there, he condemned the white minority government

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Speaker 5: of Southernrhodesia which is now Zimbabwe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all they had, Yeah, from one man's gave.

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Speaker 5: This speech to Southern Rhodesia African National Congress and he

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Speaker 5: like was in there talking rallying indigenous Rhodesians to stand

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Speaker 5: up for their rights against the white minority. And he's like,

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Speaker 5: you know what, the British Labor Party fully supports you

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Speaker 5: in that. And that didn't go over so well. He

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Speaker 5: was immediately deported, banned from the country. They're like, and

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Speaker 5: stay out of the walls.

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Speaker 2: We support what, we don't even support you. No more,

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Speaker 2: out of there.

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Speaker 5: So then he comes back right and he gets another

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Speaker 5: government gig. He's a junior Minister of Aviation.

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Speaker 2: They let him back. Here take a baby fly boy,

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Speaker 2: why not.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he fought for the government to buy British made planes.

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Speaker 2: That someone else is like, no French place, but they.

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Speaker 5: Went with Boeing seven oh seven out of the US

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Speaker 5: of a USA.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 5: He was like, no, make get the little like you know, MG.

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Speaker 5: Mosquito that we made, I don't know what. And he's

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Speaker 5: like he like talks smack on his colleagues in the office,

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Speaker 5: like kind of insinuating that they were on the take

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Speaker 5: to get these boeings. He later became the Minister of Technology.

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Speaker 5: Oh that's a great title. Sure. March of nineteen sixty

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Speaker 5: eight he put together this technology cooperation between Britain and Czechoslovakia.

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Speaker 4: Was this because he made so much noise about planes

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Speaker 4: or like, fine, you can be minished something else.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to out here, And he's like there,

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Speaker 5: he's like he organizes for this exchange of like specialists

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Speaker 5: and information research facilities network between Britain and Czechoslovakia. Later

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Speaker 5: that year he moves on up. He becomes Postmaster General.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's a move up.

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Speaker 5: He put him in charge of the General post Office,

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Speaker 5: which at the time managed the British telephone and postal systems.

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Speaker 2: All right, and posts at networking. Here's the biggest networks.

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Speaker 5: But have exactly and like people can go pay their

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Speaker 5: bills there, let's do this stonehouse. He got credited with

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Speaker 5: like all this modernization efforts, but he really wasn't like

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Speaker 5: a barn burner, renegade, maverick whatever.

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Speaker 4: No, No, this man born in the nineteen twenties, was

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Speaker 4: not a great with the technology.

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Speaker 5: He was like, you know what, AI is the future

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Speaker 5: and they're like shut up, Grandpa. So Stonehouse ambitious but

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Speaker 5: also kind of restless, like he he just he didn't

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Speaker 5: want just political power. He at this point he wants money.

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Speaker 2: Oh he's never gotten. Yeah, He's like, I was wrong.

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Speaker 5: He's like, I kind of like being rich.

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Speaker 2: I love Yeah, I was. I was ever around them.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I would love you know, like collective actions. But like

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Speaker 5: I also, these suits are really.

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Speaker 2: Choice with one my one wild life, I would like

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Speaker 2: find fabrics. Political power and money kind of go hand

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Speaker 2: in hand once you're around donors and you see what

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Speaker 2: they have. Look, can't that be me?

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Speaker 5: So many politicians of every single stripe, every kind, they

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Speaker 5: start out as like one of the common folk. I'm

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Speaker 5: like a worker or whatever, and then suddenly they're millionaires.

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Speaker 5: It's like consulting, gigs, insider trading, speaker fees, Harlan crow,

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Speaker 5: whatever it is. They get that money, right, they get it.

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Speaker 5: So in pursuit of wealth and prestige, Stonehouse started like

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Speaker 5: dabbling in business ventures. So by the late sixties, he'd

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Speaker 5: founded multiple companies in Bangladesh, which was then East Pakistan

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Speaker 5: and the Caribbean. And these weren't like basket making companies

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Speaker 5: like companies. No, they were export companies, which means they

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Speaker 5: were actually shell companies used to shuffle money around in

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Speaker 5: all these like complex, suspicious ways. So rumors started swirling

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Speaker 5: about his improper financial dealings, and then it got super sticky.

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Speaker 5: A defector from communist Czechoslovakia.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, oh no.

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Speaker 5: And in nineteen sixty nine he said that the Czechs

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Speaker 5: had recruited Stonehouse as an informer.

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Speaker 2: He's like, he's a spy, oh yike. And and for

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Speaker 2: the Labor Party that's always a damn.

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Speaker 5: Nation, right exactly. So Stonehouse he denies everything. He begged

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Speaker 5: the Prime Minister Harold Wilson, I.

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Speaker 2: Was a socialist. Look at me, I got all these

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Speaker 2: shell companies. I'm exploiting the banglades. How much more of

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Speaker 2: a capitalist I got to be?

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Speaker 5: He's like, Harold, please, I'm innocent. He said the claims

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Speaker 5: were based. Harold Wilson prime Minister believed him. He was like, okay,

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Speaker 5: so these sort of accusations they popped up, like you're

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Speaker 5: saying with the Labor Party, and they popped up a

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Speaker 5: lot during the Cold War.

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Speaker 2: There's a bunch of Soviet Union spies in this are

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Speaker 2: most of.

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Speaker 5: The most of the accusations were baseless because it was

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Speaker 5: easy to like erode trust with it. Yoh yeah, but

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Speaker 5: it worked. The erosion works. Stonehouses political reputation totally damaged.

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Speaker 5: So the Labor Party lost the nineteen seventy general election

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Speaker 5: and there was no seat for him on the opposition

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Speaker 5: front bench, a major defeat for him. And like you know,

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Speaker 5: this was his identity is personality, and he's this wreck

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Speaker 5: when this happens. So luckily he had something else to

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Speaker 5: occupy his time chess business and chess, you know, the

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Speaker 5: export services, right, remember one.

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Speaker 2: Of his global wealth go on, Well.

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Speaker 5: One of his businesses was in Bangladesh, like you were

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Speaker 5: saying in nineteen seventy one, their Bangladesh is in this

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Speaker 5: brutal fight for independence from Pakistan and.

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Speaker 2: That crazy flood.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Stonehouse's instincts to fight for the underdog and what

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00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 5: was right were like rekindled. He got super involved in

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Speaker 5: the Bengali cause, oh wow, and like deeply invested in

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Speaker 5: their victory and their agency, and the people loved him

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Speaker 5: for it. When the war ended in Bangladesh and won

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Speaker 5: its independence. Stone House was made a citizen of the

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Speaker 5: new State of Bangladesh, who honorary Bengali.

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Speaker 2: He was real. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 5: He helped the people set up the British Bangladesh Trust

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Speaker 5: and that was a bank that would provide services for

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Speaker 5: Bengali people in Britain. But it was structured and operated

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Speaker 5: in kind of a shady way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So the press they started digging into it, and pretty

349
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Speaker 5: soon so did investors from the fraud squad and the

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Speaker 5: Department of Trade and Industry in London. Oh so like bye,

351
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Speaker 5: so long investors. The pressures are mounting. His business empire

352
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,120
Speaker 5: is like teetering towards collapse. He's being screwtined by auditors,

353
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 5: fraud investigation, like peeking around the corner. He once again,

354
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Speaker 5: he's looked down on. He's out of a job, super bummed.

355
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Speaker 5: He's in a bad place.

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Speaker 2: Yes, a dear moment.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a break, put on a cupa, let's put

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Speaker 5: on a cuppa. Let's gather ourselves and carry on and whatnot.

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Speaker 5: And when we return more Stonehouse, Stonehouse, Zaren John Stonehouse.

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Speaker 4: But before you get into that, you know that that

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Speaker 4: whole thing about keep calm and carry on the British

362
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Speaker 4: tradition from like World War two. I was young and

363
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Speaker 4: I misread it. I thought it was keep clams and

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Speaker 4: carry on. So I've got this storehouse of clams where I.

365
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Speaker 2: Can move something that smell. That's what that is. Storehouse,

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Speaker 2: my bushels of plans. I'm carrying on.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, you could start an export business.

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Speaker 2: Good point, like John Stonehouse, carry.

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Speaker 5: On, He's a stone House. Let it know, Okay.

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Speaker 2: So we followed this.

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Speaker 5: Chap from his humble beginnings meteoric rise in the British

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Speaker 5: government to his freedom fighting, somewhat shady business dealing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, getting involved in Bangladeshi liberation.

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Speaker 5: Politics, accusation of being a spy for the Czecho Slava.

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Speaker 2: Throw that in there for fun. The world's most interesting.

376
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Speaker 5: Much debate about whether that was true or not. So

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Speaker 5: there's this historian from Cambridge, Professor Christopher Andrew two first names.

378
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Speaker 5: He's one of the few people who were able to

379
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Speaker 5: see them I five file on Stonehouse, and he literally

380
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 5: then went on to write the book on m I five.

381
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 5: This book in two thousand and nine, The Defense of

382
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Speaker 5: the Realm, The Authorized History of m I five and

383
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 5: he shared a lot of those documents there. He said

384
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Speaker 5: that Stonehouse one hundred percent spied for the Czecho Slade.

385
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 5: I feel like that's a solid case for it. If

386
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Speaker 5: he says that, and it's in the files.

387
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,120
Speaker 2: I think we can put the case to bed now.

388
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 5: Julian Hayes Stonehouse is great, a grand nephew. He wrote

389
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 5: a book Stonehouse Cabinet Minister, Fraudster, Spy. He told The

390
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 5: Guardian a Czech agent befriended him and he worked on

391
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 5: him over lunches and dinners. If they'd said, John, we'd

392
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Speaker 5: like you to spy for us, he'd have said no.

393
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 5: But a slow, insidious, step by step persuasion to cooperate worked.

394
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Speaker 5: He was not a spy in the sense of James

395
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 5: Bond or the novels of John lecre but he provided

396
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 5: the checks with information and got a lot of money

397
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Speaker 5: from them.

398
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Speaker 2: He knew what he was doing.

399
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 4: I would love it if it was like he sits

400
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 4: down to like lunch the first time and they're like,

401
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 4: we'd like you to spy for you.

402
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: He's like, right here, I love you exactly.

403
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 5: Actually, like they worked each other because you know whatever.

404
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 5: By nineteen seventy four, his situation totally desperate. He was

405
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 5: having an affair with his secretary. Oh no, yeah, that's again.

406
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 2: His political career stall gone much well.

407
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 5: He'd been recently re elected are tors I'm not kidding you.

408
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: He he him.

409
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 5: Terrible MP for Walsall North constituency. But he was like

410
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 5: never ever going to get higher than that. His companies

411
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 5: are unraveling under a web of debt and all this

412
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 5: messed up accounting. According to the Australian Broadcast Corporation Quote,

413
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 5: a wine company that he owned called Connoisseurs of Claret

414
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 5: Limited had lost more than one hundred thousand US dollars

415
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 5: equivalent to more than a million today in a single year.

416
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 5: Another of his businesses, a trading company Global Imax, was

417
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 5: forced to close its office in Bangladesh and the managing

418
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 5: director resigned, claiming he was owned money. But it was

419
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 5: a quasi bank called London Capital Group LCG, which John

420
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 5: had started two years earlier in the hopes of cashing

421
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 5: in on a property boom that appeared to be in

422
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 5: the most difficulty. Attracting investors and customers to LCG had

423
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 5: proved trickier than first thought, and John had eventually resorted

424
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 5: to deceptive creative accounting to keep the business afloat that

425
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 5: eventually attracted the attention of the Department of Trade and

426
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 5: Industry in Scotland. Yard According to The New York Times,

427
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 5: Stonehouse had set up twenty four accounts at seventeen banks

428
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 5: and past checks involving hundreds of thousands of pounds.

429
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: Damn, So seventeen banks and he's just doing all this

430
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 2: on paper with checks, yes, tiding it around, hiding it around.

431
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 5: So he's like facing exposure, possible prosecution.

432
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 4: His one man Ponzi scheme is about to come undone.

433
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 4: I'm my own investor.

434
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: From what do you do?

435
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 5: He devised an audacious plan. What is that He's going

436
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 5: to fake his own desk, assume a new identity, escaped

437
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 5: the law public disgrace. Okay, So sometime around nineteen seventy.

438
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: That he's going to take his affair with him. Oh yeah,

439
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it.

440
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 5: He gets the name of a constituent who had recently died.

441
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Joseph Arthur Markham.

442
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 5: They're about the same age, right, So Stonehouse took Markham's

443
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 5: information and got himself like from.

444
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: His wife, Like, did he go to the family was like.

445
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 5: I need the birth certificate, and then he created a

446
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 5: whole story for this guy. The actual Markham was a

447
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 5: foundry worker, and new Markham, he's the invented version, was

448
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 5: an international business.

449
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: He owns the foundry. Yes, he was.

450
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 5: An export consultant and he had bank accounts in London, Switzerland, Australia.

451
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 5: But like one fake identity wasn't enough. He got intel

452
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 5: on another local man who just died, Donald Clive mildoone

453
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 5: like the name. Yeah, So Stonehouse took the money he

454
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 5: had in the shell corporations and various shady accounts and

455
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 5: he moved it all into accounts in these guys' names.

456
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 5: So yeah, and he had sort of like a psychiatric break.

457
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 5: He'd go about his days as Markham. And the character

458
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 5: he created was this honest man, like a quiet guy, private,

459
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 5: almost who he wished he had been.

460
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, like the chess grand Master.

461
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 6: Got to an.

462
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 5: Interesting experiment like creating an identity of who you wished

463
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 5: you'd been, or who you could have been but opted

464
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 5: not to be totally.

465
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: We call that acting.

466
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 5: And yeah, and he just drives it around town.

467
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 4: When people do that in their real life, it's a

468
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 4: very interesting psychological almost experiment.

469
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's that's what he's doing.

470
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 5: So he's going around as good boy Markham and it's

471
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 5: really reducing his anxiety. It's calming him down to be

472
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 5: this other person for him, and it made him really

473
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 5: hate john Stonehouse like a lot.

474
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: So he went the other way with Yes.

475
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 4: Usually people reside in their one identity and they feel

476
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 4: the guilt and the shame because they know they aren't

477
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 4: what they're presenting and getting away with.

478
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 2: Right, he does the other one. He invested in himself,

479
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: in his future, his new self, and then it's like,

480
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: you know who's real jerk? Me me, I can't stand

481
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 2: that guy.

482
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 5: So he decided that his wife had his family and

483
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 5: his friends and the British people, I'll be better off

484
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 5: without john Stonehouse.

485
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 2: But he didn't want to end his life ritualistically.

486
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, he decided to end Stonehouse and move full time

487
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 5: into Markham.

488
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: This is like a psychological that I'm telling you.

489
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: It's like you know they do like, oh, we're going

490
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 4: to do an encounter therapy kind of thing.

491
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: Yes, it is like one of those severe versions of therapy.

492
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 2: Let's do it, let's let's each do it anyway, change

493
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: her names, start a new podcast with new names.

494
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 5: He had his wife set up these like.

495
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 4: New podcast one to get there.

496
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like it was climbing up like my

497
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 5: neck to get into my ear. Like wait, don't forget

498
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 5: about like imagine this.

499
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: Like a better fun.

500
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 4: Like a Japanese calligrapher where they become a master and

501
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 4: they change their names.

502
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: I can do it all over again. Yeah, exactly.

503
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 5: So he and his wife set up some like huge

504
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 5: life insurance policies for him and the kids, and I

505
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 5: feel like that's always a red flag request.

506
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, policies were.

507
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 5: Worth around like two hundred thousand US dollars at the time,

508
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 5: which is like one point five million today.

509
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: Wow.

510
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 5: I don't know if he told her to get one

511
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 5: for like yourself too, So I don't know what's worse,

512
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 5: get one for yourself too, or like and watch your back,

513
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 5: or like be left out and behind we're all gonna die.

514
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: You don't need one, won't You won't be here to

515
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: spend it.

516
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 5: Barbara Stonehouse, the wife. She later said that she didn't

517
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 5: know anything about his plans to become someone else.

518
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: Do you believe?

519
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 5: Uh? Yeah I do?

520
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: I trust you read see they like she said that they.

521
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 5: Opted for the policies because of the IRA, the Irish

522
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 5: Republican Army. Yeah, so that there. I mean, this is

523
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 5: in the middle of the troubles. Their head was snapping

524
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 5: threats against his kids and lots of bomb threats and

525
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 5: then like actual bombs. This car got blowed up.

526
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it all the way back and the.

527
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: Cops sound a bomb planted in the house directly next

528
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 5: to their place.

529
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: I thought he was being like dramatic, like, you know,

530
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: I've got the troubles now, what.

531
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 5: Do you think that adds to the stress too. Hell yeah,

532
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 5: so there may be some truths you're sitting.

533
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: I'll try you.

534
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 5: So Stonehouse. He went on with his days. He didn't

535
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 5: let on that he was planning to assume a new identity.

536
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 5: He traveled to Miami for business with an old barrister

537
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 5: friend of his, James Overton.

538
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: Charlton, Wow, how did they make them minds?

539
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 5: They were there to meet up with some American bankers,

540
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 5: you know, chat about a business.

541
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: Opportunity chatting Greg. Yeah, I want you just.

542
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 5: Picture It's November twentieth, nineteen seventy four. You're sitting in

543
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 5: a hotel restaurant in Miami, Florida. You and the businessmen

544
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 5: from an investment bank are sipping cocktails waiting for your

545
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 5: friend and associate, John's Stonehouse to arrive at dinner. You

546
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 5: Zarin are James Overton Charlton. You tap a swizzle stick

547
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 5: against the glass containing your gin and tonic. Beads of

548
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 5: water slowly roll down the sides and pool on the

549
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 5: white tablecloth below.

550
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: You check your watch.

551
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 5: Stonehouse is usually very punctual, so this is a bit odd.

552
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 5: He's thirty minutes late. The bankers are getting restless as

553
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 5: you get up once more to use the phone at

554
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 5: the maitre d stand to call up to his hotel room.

555
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 5: You dial his room number and wait. It rings and rings,

556
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 5: no answer. You head back to the table and excuse yourself,

557
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 5: explaining that you're going to go check and make sure

558
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 5: your friend is okay. You tell the gentlemen to go

559
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 5: ahead and order for themselves, enjoy their dinner. It'll be

560
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 5: on you.

561
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: They demure and opt to leave, telling.

562
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 5: You they'll be in touch tomorrow. They hope John's okay.

563
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: You agree and walk with them toward the lobby. At

564
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 5: the front desk, you ask for someone to come up

565
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 5: to the room with you to open it up. You'd

566
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 5: like to perform a wellness check. The manager agrees and

567
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 5: grabs a security guard. The three of you take a

568
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 5: silent ride up to the room together in the elevator.

569
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 5: The Musaic's saucily samba ing out a wordless tune. You

570
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 5: arrive in front of the room, and the security guard

571
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 5: flips through a large loop of keys. Your stomach is

572
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 5: in knots. Life has been troubling for John lately. He's

573
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 5: been dealt a number of bad hands. As the way

574
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 5: you'd put it, you have seen the toll, the scandals

575
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 5: and setbacks have taken on him, the pressure he's under.

576
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 5: You worry that either he's been stricken down by a

577
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: massive heart attack courtesy of the stress he's under, or

578
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 5: even worse what you truly dread and slightly suspect that

579
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 5: he's done himself harm. The security guard gets the correct

580
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 5: key and opens the door to the suite. It's silent, John,

581
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 5: You call you, and the manager and the guard enter

582
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 5: the room. Everything looks normal. A jacket draped over a chair,

583
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 5: jeans and a crumpled heap next to his suitcase, dress

584
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 5: shirts hanging in the closet, His toiletry bag on the

585
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 5: counter in the bathroom. You walk over to the nightstand.

586
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 5: The only sound in the room is the crackle of

587
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 5: the security guard's walkie talkie. The manager stands at the

588
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 5: door of the room with his hands clasped behind his back.

589
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 5: You look down at the bedside table and you see

590
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 5: John's passport and his watch, plus a stack of one

591
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 5: hundred dollars bills, eight of them, and some travelers.

592
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: Checks where was John.

593
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 5: The three of you head down to the lobby where

594
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 5: you asked the manager to call the police. Your friend

595
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 5: has vanished.

596
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: Aaron so sad. I'm broken up a stone house. He's

597
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: nowhere to be found.

598
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 4: I was like waiting for that to be like the

599
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: open sliding glass door onto the balcony and like the yeah,

600
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 4: they all look out. Yeah, but that like you went

601
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 4: into the ocean, and you'd have to have like an

602
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 4: ocean or somebody.

603
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 5: But he wouldn't be able to collect insurance on him

604
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 5: if that's the case, if he jumped from the balcony.

605
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

606
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: So I'm not good at this.

607
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 5: I am so stone House can't find him. There were

608
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 5: some people who said they saw him in the afternoon

609
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 5: of the dinner on Miami Beach, and they said he

610
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 5: was like wearing swim trunks and a handsome fellow, and

611
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 5: he headed They saw him head out into the water,

612
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 5: and so they searched the beach authorities. They found his

613
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 5: clothes like these nice trousers and a shirt, very neatly

614
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 5: folded in the corner of a beach hut, and so

615
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 5: it looked to everyone like Stonehouse had drowned. He went

616
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 5: to Davy Jones's locker.

617
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 2: He like that the Australian Prime Minister who went swimming

618
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: out to and they never went out into the brainy deep.

619
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: They're like, why we should teach these guys to swim. Exactly,

620
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: you should try it.

621
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 5: So now he's like assumed dead. So news organizations they

622
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 5: ran obituaries. There was no body, but that didn't mean anything,

623
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: like you could have been washed out to sea, but

624
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 5: not really so, according to the ABC quote, when his

625
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 5: body failed to wash up after seventy eight hours, police

626
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 5: became suspicious. Normally, those who drowned at sea were discovered

627
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 5: within a couple of days, but there was no trace

628
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 5: of Stonehouse anywhere. They began to suspect foul play, and

629
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 5: a new working theory emerged that John Stonehouse was still alive,

630
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 5: possibly being held prisoner by gangs. The theory was given

631
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 5: more prominence when Miami police found traces of blood and

632
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 5: hair inside a quote concrete overcoat, a signature method of

633
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 5: mafia burials.

634
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: Ah so they're like, oh.

635
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 5: The cement shoes Chicago. Yeah yeah, yeah, so like the

636
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 5: mob captured him, tickled him, tortured him, and then put

637
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 5: him in cement through.

638
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: Fatal tickle fight.

639
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're like, he got got by the mob.

640
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 4: This is actually a lot of good news for those

641
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 4: of us who have dreams about being tossed over aboard

642
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 4: of a boat that because they were a jerk to

643
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 4: somebody who.

644
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: Owned a boat. They're going, Wow, I'm in the Caribbean.

645
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: What am I going to do? And all the white

646
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: tip reef sharks are gonna eat me. Apparently that doesn't

647
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: happen because the authorities are assuming you're gonna get hit,

648
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: You're going to reach the shore within two three days.

649
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: All you got to do is stay float for.

650
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 5: I think they're saying that, like it's the body just

651
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 5: I guess if you float, Like.

652
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking at least there's a chances I can.

653
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 5: Know you know what it could just you know, next

654
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 5: time it happens, or.

655
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: At least part of me will make it, part of

656
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: part of you make.

657
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 5: It to the bottom line. People thought he was dead,

658
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 5: so Barbara, she's like grieving. Parliament mourned his constituency, prepared for.

659
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: Like a special election. But Sarah Stonehouse wasn't dead.

660
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 5: No, we figured that let's take a break, let's hydrate,

661
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 5: let's stretch, and when we finally make it back and

662
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 5: we're reunited, I'll tell you about where Stonehouse took his

663
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 5: little narrow English behind.

664
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: All right, here we are Stonehouse, Stonehouse.

665
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 5: The last we heard from John Stonehouse, he was dejected,

666
00:33:54,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 5: desponded in Miami home business, goes for dip, gets around,

667
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 5: or maybe he crossed the mob and they put him

668
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 5: in the water for good. There's that too, Yeah, But

669
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 5: to the world barrel, he's ded dead due So like judge,

670
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 5: you know what, we.

671
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: Know better than that. We're smarter than that, skeptics both.

672
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 5: I also told you up top that I was going

673
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 5: to tell you a story about a guy who faked

674
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 5: the spoiler alert little too late, too fast, too furious

675
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 5: on that one. So now people, you did really see

676
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 5: him head out for a swim that faithful day, Yes,

677
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 5: did they, but he actually, yeah, he actually swam down

678
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 5: the beach aways and he got out of the water

679
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 5: in front of a neighboring hotel, and it was there

680
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 5: that he'd previously stashed some clothes, money, and his prized possession,

681
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 5: the Joseph Markham passport.

682
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 6: Ah.

683
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 5: So he gets dried off, cleaned up, goes into the

684
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 5: other hotel, grabs a cab, goes to the Miami.

685
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 2: Airport, hoping that no one will remember him.

686
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he had previously stashed a full suitcase and

687
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 5: a briefcase full of phony documents there an airport locker.

688
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 5: So he flashed his Markham passport, boarded a flight to Hawaii,

689
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 5: and from Honolulu he flew to Singapore. From Singapore, he

690
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 5: flew to Denmark, and from Denmark he flew to Melbourne, Australia, Melbourne,

691
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 5: arriving December tenth, nineteen seventy four, so twenty days after

692
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 5: his disappearance. Like, you know, I don't know if he

693
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 5: was stopping at banks along the way.

694
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 2: Who's to say, I mean, I guess you're you're like,

695
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: you're figuring nobody will be on all these flights so

696
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: if any of.

697
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 5: You read one of them, he didn't just travel as Markham.

698
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 5: So for some of those flights he used that Muldoon passport.

699
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 5: So he's mixing it up, muddying the waters, confusing the

700
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 5: field mice, swapping the placement, jiggling the old jam job.

701
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 5: Back in London, it wasn't just barbing the kids for morning.

702
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 5: His death, the death of forty nine year old Stonehouse.

703
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 5: There's also that young secretary. He was stepping out his

704
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 5: twenty eight year old Shila.

705
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: Buckley side piece. Yeah, so she put on.

706
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 5: A good show. She's crying about her dead boss, but

707
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 5: she knew the real story. In fact, according to the

708
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 5: BBC quote, some of her clothes had been packed in

709
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 5: a trunk and shipped to Australia a month before. She

710
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 5: had transatlantic telephone calls from him, and she had also

711
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 5: sent him semi coded letters through one of his two

712
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 5: Australian banks. You know we call that out here, accomplice.

713
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 5: I want to know what the semi coded it was

714
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 5: like in pig Latin.

715
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 2: Latin.

716
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 5: So before you knew it, Buckley, she's in Australia at

717
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 5: Stonehouse's side, and for weeks he's playing the role of

718
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 5: this quiet British businessman settling down in Melbourne. But financial

719
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 5: transactions started raising suspicions with Australian bank staff and authorities.

720
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 5: So even though he may have been spying for the checks,

721
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 5: he was super bad at covert operations and he.

722
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: Just left this trail of like evidence and discrepanty season

723
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 2: his way. He's no, he's not.

724
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 5: So he took his two false passports and he went

725
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 5: around transferring huge amounts of money between banks and he

726
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 5: thought this would like throw people off his scent. So yeah,

727
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,479
Speaker 5: he was like, he goes into this branch of right, Yeah,

728
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 5: he goes into this branch of the Bank of New

729
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 5: Zealand as Clive Muldoon and he deposits like, you know,

730
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 5: twenty one grand Australian. But like this watchful employee on

731
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 5: his lunch break sees Stonehouse going in and out of

732
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 5: different banks, and like by chance, the teller who'd helped

733
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 5: him was in another bank a few days later, this

734
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 5: branch of the Bank of New South Wales and he

735
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 5: here's the guy. Oh, I'm Joseph Markham. And so the teller,

736
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 5: he's a good citizen and a total rat snitch. He

737
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 5: calls the cops like, Meanwhile, though, Stonehouse and Buckley, they're

738
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 5: living it up right. They went on vacation to Copenhagen,

739
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 5: really they did, and so while they're gone, the cops

740
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 5: got authorization to begin surveillance. And but the thing is

741
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 5: they didn't suspect he was Stonehouse.

742
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 2: Oh they didn't. They thought he was Lord Lucan. Who's

743
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: Lord Luken.

744
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 5: I'm so glad you asked Lord Luke question. He was

745
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 5: Richard John Bingham, seventh Earl of Luken. Oh that one, yeah,

746
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 5: of course, disappeared around the same time as Stonehouse. He

747
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 5: was like this dashing banker, gambler and like adventureman.

748
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 2: Seventies, I'm telling you.

749
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 5: And he was also wanted for the murder of his

750
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 5: children's nanny, and he attempted murder of his wife. Oh,

751
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 5: dear God, big terrible stuff. He's a horrible human being.

752
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 5: I once tried to watch a documentary about him, and

753
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 5: I had to stop because.

754
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: It was horrible. And you watch anything. I'll watch absolutely any,

755
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: especially if it's like true crime.

756
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 5: You watched especially, but there were no gardens in it,

757
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 5: so I wasn't interested.

758
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: Your reigned is wild. You'll watch like something about son

759
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: of Sam and then like it's the most graphic thing

760
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: I've ever heard about, And then it's like gardening with

761
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: Monty Dan.

762
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, I contained multitudes.

763
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 2: More than that. You canta cosmic itself.

764
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 5: I am so catching Lord Lucan would have been a

765
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 5: huge deal.

766
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 2: They get never found him.

767
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 5: What, Yeah, his story was a major one. The Aussies

768
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 5: they called Scotland Yard right, asked for pictures of Luken

769
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 5: and like any prince you got, the yard threw in

770
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 5: the materials on Stonehouse too. We got another missing dashing

771
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 5: guy and then they swooped in. So December twenty fourth,

772
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 5: Christmas Eve nineteen seventy I have for real and don't

773
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 5: forget it was like November tenth when he went missing.

774
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 2: So it's only December twenty fourth, the.

775
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 5: Same year he gets arrested outside of Melbourne train station.

776
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: When they took him into the police station, the cops

777
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: told him.

778
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 5: To pull down his pants. What that's just the custom

779
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 5: of the the ideo, It's part of their statutes.

780
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: No, let's just which you do.

781
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 5: They wanted to see if he had a six inch

782
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 5: scar on the inside of his right thigh that would

783
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 5: confirm he was Lord Lucan. Ah he got that sixth inch. No, no,

784
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 5: he didn't have it. So then they ran the Prince.

785
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 5: No match for Lucan, but a match for Stonehouse. And

786
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 5: then they found the two passports, and so Stonehouse he

787
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 5: just confesses, He's like, you know what, guess what, chaps,

788
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: I'm John Stonehouse, I'm mighty, mighty, I'm letting it all

789
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 5: hang out. And they're like, okay, wow. He's like, you

790
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 5: can pull your pants back up it. He told the

791
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 5: Copsy quote suffered a brainstorm. A brain he meant like

792
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 5: an idea generating sound. This is before Joe versus a volcano,

793
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 5: which had he told. He told the British he was like, brainstorm,

794
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 5: I need to talk to the British Prime minist So

795
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 5: he gets a message to the Prime Minister. He's like,

796
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 5: you know what, I ran off because of quote incredible

797
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 5: pressures in business and various attempts at blackmail. Oh we

798
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 5: didn't know about that.

799
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, just crime, he said, quote.

800
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 5: I suppose this can be summed up as a brain

801
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 5: storm or a mental breakdown. I can only apologize to

802
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 5: you and all the others who've been troubled by.

803
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: This business used the term brainstorm. That way not created so.

804
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 5: Stonehouse. He's claiming he's mentally ill, right, he has this breakdown,

805
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 5: he's under all this pressure. You know, I've been under

806
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 5: a whole lot of stress.

807
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 2: I've seen recently. Totally. I am not sleeping and Sae.

808
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 5: I didn't fake my death and run off with some

809
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 5: young thing to Australia. I want to make that clear.

810
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 5: If I were going to fake my death, i'd move

811
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 5: to a very large American city and never talk to

812
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 5: anyone and somebody old, yes, I'd find someone on their

813
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 5: last legs depth store and let's come on. So at

814
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 5: Melbourne Police headquarters he was like, hey, can I call

815
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 5: my wife? And they're like sure, and then they hit

816
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 5: record and he said, hello, darling.

817
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: Well they picked up the false identity here.

818
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 5: You would realize from all this that I have been

819
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 5: deceiving you. I'm sorry about that, but in a sense,

820
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 5: I'm glad it's all over.

821
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm glad it's all over for me. So

822
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: you guys, the stress holerable.

823
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 5: My cortisol levels are through the roof you wires. So

824
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 5: his wife and kids came down from England. His girlfriend

825
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 5: showed up too. That must have felt great.

826
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got everyone coming. They all care about him.

827
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 5: The press had a field day mp rises from the

828
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 5: Dead to the headline. January of nineteen seventy five, he

829
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 5: spoke to BBC Australia and he was sticking with the

830
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 5: mental illness defense.

831
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: This time he.

832
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 5: Broadened it out to having developed a quote divided personality,

833
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 5: with the new personality providing a release to the old

834
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 5: personality which is under stress and strain of considerable proportions.

835
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: So somebody told them about the many faces of Evey.

836
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: That's me.

837
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, He's like, yeah, I read Sybil, Let's do this.

838
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 5: She's asked, how, like, how can you put your wife

839
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 5: and your kids through this?

840
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: You would think that might be a question. He can said.

841
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 5: He said, quote, I was trying by disappearing to make

842
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 5: their lives easier by taking away some of the tensions

843
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 5: that I gave to them for my old personality.

844
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: Like uh, and that involved the girl, yeah exactly. That

845
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: was also the seat to help out the children.

846
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was for that to take the pressure for

847
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 5: the kids.

848
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: Doing this for you gains. Yeah. I don't want to

849
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: do this. This is for you kids.

850
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 5: Every time I remember, remember the stone House have been

851
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 5: re elected to a scene in Parliament.

852
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: Which I still cannot fathom.

853
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 5: But yes, he was technically still an MP at this point,

854
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 5: and he totally was like, you know what, I am

855
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 5: not giving up my.

856
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: Seat, but more importantly, more importantly.

857
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 5: I'm not giving up my salary, even though I'm twelve

858
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 5: thousand miles away from.

859
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 2: My job and I haven't done it for months.

860
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 5: You're gonna absolutely love this quote. Lots of members of

861
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 5: Parliament gone overseas visits and do fact finding tours. I've

862
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 5: been doing a fact finding tour, not only in terms

863
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 5: of geography, but in terms of the inner self of

864
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 5: a political animal. Now that tour could be very interesting.

865
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 5: In my golly, I think it fully justifies an MP's salary.

866
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 5: If I can get the story down of my experience.

867
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: I get the writing time. Then he adds in he

868
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 2: went on both a fact finding and a fact hiding

869
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: to hide find himself.

870
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 5: Then he says, quote, I think a member of Parliament,

871
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 5: like anybody else in any other job, is entitled to

872
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 5: some consideration during a period when he has some sort

873
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 5: of illness.

874
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,479
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, that is true for people who have reason

875
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: got secretary iteas.

876
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 5: But yeah, I love that, just like yeah, the sax

877
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 5: finding tour was finding me.

878
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: I went on a journey and I found so uh. There.

879
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 5: He gets extradited return to Britain nineteen seventy five. He

880
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 5: faces tons of criminal charges, twenty one counts of theft, fraud, deception.

881
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 5: While he's out on bail, continues to serve as MP.

882
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 5: In an another There's something.

883
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: About the people who become politicians. I'm convinced of it now.

884
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: There is something the rest of us do not have,

885
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 2: and that's why they are just shameless and willing to

886
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 2: do this stuff. Yeah.

887
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 4: I used to think it was like they have like

888
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 4: a some kind of weird kink about being shamed publicly

889
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 4: and also being adulated publicly that they love both sides.

890
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 2: I'm convinced it's more than that. It's it's way vapor. Yeah,

891
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 2: it's some much storytelling mechanism in their head is broken. Yeah,

892
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: well he's there or whatever.

893
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 5: Hypers he's king of poor decisions, these king, I'm champion,

894
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 5: adds another. He adds another to the list. He insists

895
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 5: on representing himself in court.

896
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: Oh god, and like he's stuck.

897
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 5: With the whole. I was overwhelmed. I'm mentally ill sing.

898
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 2: I also have amnesian.

899
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 5: The trial was in nineteen seventy six, was completely theatrical.

900
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 5: It went on for sixty eight days.

901
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 2: Wow.

902
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 5: He cross examined witnesses. He made these like elaborate speeches.

903
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 5: He really like tried to appeal to sympathy. He made

904
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 5: the longest doc statement in British history. I went on

905
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 5: for six days.

906
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 2: A statement lasted six days. I want the British version.

907
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 4: I don't know who this person is, a Vin Diesel

908
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 4: to make this movie as it is, like, look.

909
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: I'm a serious actor. Whoever there Vin Diesel is do

910
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 2: this movie? Oh my god, Clive Owen.

911
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 4: Oh good.

912
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 5: So the evidence was damning right, forged documents, fake identities,

913
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 5: bank fraud, false accounting. He's ultimately found guilty of forgery

914
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 5: of a passport, stealing checks from his own company, and

915
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 5: attempting to defraud insurance companies by pretending he drowned.

916
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: He was.

917
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 5: He was found innocent of conspiring to defraud creditors, but

918
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 5: they attacked on another charge, wasting police time.

919
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: Oh to get mad about that.

920
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 5: He was guilty for that, So he gets seven years

921
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 5: in prison. The presiding judge said that he had committed

922
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 5: quote deliberate premeditated heartless fraud. So he served his sentence

923
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 5: at Wormwood Scrubs, which is maybe one of the best

924
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 5: prison names. Familiar with that one, and then Blundlesome Prison

925
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 5: where he had Yeah, he had a bunch of heart

926
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 5: attacks in nineteen seventy seven, so it's like a year

927
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 5: after he's in there. He gets released early on health

928
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 5: grounds in nineteen seventy nine.

929
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: He's in his late fifties.

930
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, by then he divorced Barbara and married Sheila Buckley, the.

931
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 2: Secretary with him. They must have like a chessa.

932
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 5: He kept a low profile in his later years. He retired,

933
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 5: he went to Hampshire. It was like wrote books, novels, police. Yeah,

934
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 5: he went to Old Hampshire. He would make occasional public

935
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 5: statements defending his actions or like criticizing the press, but

936
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 5: he pretty much disappeared from public life. In the eighties,

937
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 5: declassified documents and interviews with Eastern Bloc defectors, they resurrected

938
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 5: the claim that he had been an active spy for

939
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 5: Czechoslovakia and that his code name was Agent Colon k

940
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 5: O L O N Colan Colon.

941
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

942
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, So he and his immediate family denied the alations like.

943
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: Where they first met him, like Cologne, like Germany. Who knows.

944
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 2: So that's not how you spell it, I know, but

945
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 2: I figured they would spell it like they'd make Colonne.

946
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: He said that he had been used by foreign agents.

947
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 5: Without knowledge or intent.

948
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: Me too, brother, that happens to me, Like every.

949
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 5: Day I go to the supermarket. Foreign agents are I'm

950
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 5: about to use you and you don't even know.

951
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: I'd find out later.

952
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 5: Okay. So but there were the five files that came

953
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 5: out put in that book I mentioned. Yes, they confirmed

954
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 5: that British intelligence, you know, said that he had been

955
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 5: passing sensitive material to check agents in exchange for payment,

956
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 5: beginning as early as nineteen sixty two.

957
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: That's early, that's early.

958
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 5: Stonehouse died of a heart attack April fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight,

959
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 5: at the age of sixty two.

960
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

961
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 5: In his final years, he was like this tragicomic figure, right,

962
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 5: Like he's this man of promise, undone by ambition, deceit, arrogance.

963
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 5: Over the years, his story has been told in documentaries, books,

964
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,439
Speaker 5: and there was an ITV series in twenty twenty three

965
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 5: starring Matthew mcfaden Tom Walmscans from Succession is that ball.

966
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know whatever, mister Darcy, I

967
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: don't really anymore. They gave it up. So he was

968
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: in succession, Yeah, I know a guy, yeahs in succession.

969
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 5: Mister dark loves succession. Yeah, okay, So.

970
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 2: Public surprised that both you and I liked that, Yeah,

971
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 2: because we both do not like usually the same things.

972
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 2: And also that it's about rich people acting badly. I

973
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: mean that's a rough sell for us. For yeah, for

974
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 2: each of us are different reasons we loved it.

975
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 5: So people are like divided on him, like some see

976
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 5: him as this desperate man and done by stress mental illness.

977
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 5: Others are like he's a narcissist.

978
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 7: Surprised, I mean he's fascinating, right, you might take he

979
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 7: was like climbing to these incredible heights of power, only

980
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 7: like plunge into infamy through a series of bad decisions.

981
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 5: So like whether he was mentally ill or not, though,

982
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 5: like we can safely say the boy wasn't right, Yeah,

983
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 5: I do what he was doing was wrong, otherwise he

984
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 5: wouldn't have hidden it.

985
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 4: I don't think, I mean, do you believe that the

986
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 4: mental illness? It seems to me that he's kind of

987
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 4: like joining a crowd. He doesn't belong any going we're

988
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 4: all victims here.

989
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 5: Well, I think he was made frantic by it.

990
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 2: But I think he's he you know, I think he's

991
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: miss mislabeling.

992
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 5: He's mislabeling it is my I mean, I agree.

993
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 4: He had a psychological break and he had a moment

994
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 4: of great stress. But to call himself like this is

995
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 4: a culmination of mental illness. I shouldn't speculate.

996
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 2: I don't know.

997
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. I'm not I'm not an expert.

998
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: Thankfully, I'm not a jury member, so I don't.

999
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 5: But I mean, I don't know just the details I

1000
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 5: see there. Yeah, he's a cautionary tale, right, definitely that.

1001
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 5: Don't lose sight of your beliefs, maintain your integrity, don't

1002
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 5: get business deals. Yeah, don't bonk your secretary if you're married.

1003
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: Oh right right.

1004
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 5: Don't fake your death. These are good thing, good reminders.

1005
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: Don't fit your death doubt.

1006
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

1007
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: Apparently, not to fake your death? Don't take Yeah, I've

1008
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 2: been planning my entire life to do that. You're like

1009
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: taking away once.

1010
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 5: This has changed my trajectory.

1011
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 4: It's what I call my first retirement, so I don't

1012
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 4: know now what to do my first retirement.

1013
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 2: Elizabeth, what's yours?

1014
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 5: I told you everything you ever need to know. When

1015
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 5: I'm done, you know what I need? I need to

1016
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 5: talk back?

1017
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: Did okay? Produc Can you favor us with one?

1018
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I went.

1019
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 3: Dizzy, Clyde, how are you? Uh? Salutations from Delaware, the state,

1020
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 3: not the apparent city in Ohio. Do you know what's ridiculous?

1021
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 3: I make such a point to avoid social media, and

1022
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 3: I'm very happy with that, to the point that I

1023
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 3: have no idea what blue sky is. But I also

1024
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 3: am in the who knows who cares? So in my mind,

1025
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 3: you're like Mufasa in the sky, and that's how I

1026
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 3: can find you. So I'll look up next time I

1027
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 3: need you.

1028
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I love this personally. I envy you

1029
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 5: not knowing blue sky and staying off social media. I mean,

1030
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 5: I'd like to cut it down to pretty much that,

1031
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 5: but goodness, Yeah, we are.

1032
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 2: Look up if you need to feel us, look up

1033
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: in the sky. That's how I find her. Yeah, that's true.

1034
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 2: That's how I just love that so much.

1035
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 5: That's all for today. You can find us online at

1036
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 5: ridiculous Crime dot com Newsflash breaking news. We just want

1037
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 5: a tony no yeah for.

1038
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: Fleet fleetest feet, fastest feet in the bizh okay, I

1039
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: thought we won for Fleet Week.

1040
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 5: And fleet we won Fleet Week two years ago. We're

1041
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 5: also Ridiculous Crime on on Blue Sky, Instagram or if

1042
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 5: you need me, just look up in the sky. We're

1043
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 5: on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. You can email Ridiculous

1044
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 5: Crime gmail dot com, leave a talkback on the iHeart app.

1045
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: Please we love them so much reach out.

1046
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 5: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,

1047
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 5: produced and edited by Dave Cousten, twelfth Earl of Minja

1048
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 5: Mind Your Own Business, starring Annalise Rutger as Judith. Research

1049
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,959
Speaker 5: is by Eagle Eyed bank teller Marissa Brown. The theme

1050
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 5: song is by Miami beachcomber Thomas Lee and I rate

1051
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 5: British constituent Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by Botany

1052
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 5: five hundred guest Haarn, makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre.

1053
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 5: Executive producers are Lord Lucan, Hunters, Ben Bollen and Noel.

1054
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 8: Browns QUI say It one More times? QUI.

1055
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio, four more podcasts

1056
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1057
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.