Speaker 1: Positively Gam is sponsored by Vasiline. See how they are
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Speaker 1: I don't think they understand You're not just talking about
Speaker 1: my hair at a certain point, You're talking about like
Speaker 1: me as a person. I feel like for you, will
Speaker 1: I feel like some of this started with you. Really
Speaker 1: young Willow has the prettiest hair, and she just didn't
Speaker 1: believe it. I didn't and I'm still trying to believe it.
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody, I'm Gammy and this is positively gam.
Speaker 1: Every week I have raw, in depth conversations with inspirational
Speaker 1: people pushing for change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness,
Speaker 1: to the current issues facing the black community. Okay, joining
Speaker 1: me is a lovely panel of strong black women starting
Speaker 1: with one of my heartbeats. I love granddaughter Willow, and
Speaker 1: we have celebrity hairstylist Stacy Cisseron and hair historian Jay Lash.
Speaker 1: I really wanted to have this conversation. I've wanted to
Speaker 1: have it for a really long time. I know hair
Speaker 1: is supposed to be a woman's glory, but I don't
Speaker 1: know any Black woman who hasn't had a vacillating relationship
Speaker 1: with their hair. I know I have over the years,
Speaker 1: and I really think a lot of the struggle has
Speaker 1: to do with how we've been brainwashed for centuries. I
Speaker 1: think that's that awakening and that understanding is something that
Speaker 1: has been suppressed for so long that I feel like
Speaker 1: just now even myself, like with me shaving my head
Speaker 1: and with me like trying to regrow that regrow physically
Speaker 1: and spiritually. That relationship with my hair, I feel is
Speaker 1: so important because as a young girl, it was rough
Speaker 1: with my hair like it was, Yeah, it was, and
Speaker 1: that I hated my hair goes back to all the
Speaker 1: brainwashing that we went through, making us feel like we
Speaker 1: had we had to in order for us to have
Speaker 1: any kind of self esteem about ourselves. Over the years,
Speaker 1: it was about assimilating into the culture of the colonizers
Speaker 1: and the way we looked in the way we dressed.
Speaker 1: I remember you got mad one time because I wanted
Speaker 1: to get extensions. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that. We go,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that. But I just want to
Speaker 1: get to this point and I want you to get
Speaker 1: us up to the point where we start mixing m
Speaker 1: h you know, not yeah, breapes happening on plantations. And
Speaker 1: when you start this process, a couple of things happened.
Speaker 1: Number One, you have people who are now vibracial in
Speaker 1: their hair texture is softer, curls are looser, They're considered prettier.
Speaker 1: And so this is where you start the term good
Speaker 1: hair creazy kid, like what's how pretty he is? And
Speaker 1: there is a high arty created with white boats that
Speaker 1: we've been internalized amongst themselves. And so there are documented
Speaker 1: cases of light skinned black folks having separate church ceremonies
Speaker 1: for themselves from the dark skin black felting. This is
Speaker 1: during inst So this is when we start that process.
Speaker 1: We internalized that inferiority and start to believe it. And
Speaker 1: it's been going on for generations and generations. So you
Speaker 1: can see how we start separating from one another based
Speaker 1: on the brainwashing that we've Black women with other black women,
Speaker 1: because like when I was younger, there would be like
Speaker 1: even family members that were my peers, like my cousins
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. Because I had one cousin that
Speaker 1: had really beautiful flowing her and every time I would
Speaker 1: just look at her and I would just because you're
Speaker 1: so beautiful, like I want that, And every time I
Speaker 1: would bring it up, she would always just be like,
Speaker 1: not everyone can, and it would and it would be
Speaker 1: it was like a real hurt for me, Like I
Speaker 1: was like wow. And then she'd be like trying to
Speaker 1: be like maybe you should get a weave, maybe you
Speaker 1: should get a perm maybe you should you know, and
Speaker 1: like all of these things, and like other black women,
Speaker 1: not even trying to be like no, like you're beautiful,
Speaker 1: Like we're different, but we're beautiful together. Okay. So I
Speaker 1: want to take us back to the good hair, bad hair,
Speaker 1: because now we we understand where it all came from.
Speaker 1: But and actually that was a real stickler for me
Speaker 1: when I was growing up. I hated that because I
Speaker 1: had long braids and all of that. But the good hair,
Speaker 1: bad hair, I'm guilty. What are the proper terms that
Speaker 1: we should use when we're trying to describe our hair
Speaker 1: and not the good hair bad hair? Stacy, let me
Speaker 1: tell you while you're talking my my brain, my emotions.
Speaker 1: It's it's such a trigger for us that I have
Speaker 1: about fifty million thoughts that just came to me. But
Speaker 1: the first thing that came to me is the reward
Speaker 1: and the punishment First of all, that comes with good
Speaker 1: hair bad here. So even if you don't want to
Speaker 1: believe it, like oh I have beautiful hair, I have this,
Speaker 1: I have that. We go back to the punishment versus
Speaker 1: the reward. Okay, so what happens with the person with
Speaker 1: the good hair? Are they getting different opportunities, are they
Speaker 1: getting different chances, are they being more visible? Are they
Speaker 1: being taken seriously? Because there's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: come in with the hair, with the complexion and different
Speaker 1: things like that. So when I think about good hair
Speaker 1: bad hair as a professional, I could not refer to
Speaker 1: it that way. Especially with teaching consumers and teaching hair stylists,
Speaker 1: we refer to it more by its characteristics. What does
Speaker 1: it look like? Is it straight? Is it wavy? Is
Speaker 1: it coyly? Is it curly? That's more like how we
Speaker 1: refer to hair texture, hair type, density, perosity, and things
Speaker 1: like that. But even within our excuse me, I was
Speaker 1: just saying, because those words don't like, throw shade on
Speaker 1: the person you're talking now, because they're they're facts. They're now.
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna say that I did not hear
Speaker 1: it growing up and even within having a Caribbean background,
Speaker 1: and in in all of that comes with But the
Speaker 1: good hair bad hair, to me comes with the punishment
Speaker 1: versus reward. Even though we switch it in our in
Speaker 1: our vocabulary, in our conversations, We're still gonna be punish somehow.
Speaker 1: We're still maybe not going to get the job opportunities
Speaker 1: or get noticed by somebody that we like, somebody that
Speaker 1: we are attracted to make. What good here versus bad here?
Speaker 1: So this is what I'm saying. So that's my take
Speaker 1: on the good here, bad here. We would have to
Speaker 1: dig a little deeper to correct the punishment versus the
Speaker 1: rewards because that's the exact replica of that culture that
Speaker 1: we pay from the exact same thing. You got different treatment,
Speaker 1: better jobs, right on the plantation for lighter skin, longer hair,
Speaker 1: even with amongst ourselves we do that. So yeah, we're
Speaker 1: doing the exact same thing, and we haven't unlearned that
Speaker 1: behavior is coper use of rooting. Yeah, good is desirable, desirable.
Speaker 1: That is not desirable. And I don't know how true
Speaker 1: this is. We these things pop up on the Internet
Speaker 1: saying that black women are the least desirable women of
Speaker 1: all So that comes with its thing too. I feel
Speaker 1: like that I can't tell you how much that narrative,
Speaker 1: how much I've seen that narrative, and how much I've
Speaker 1: just been around it. Even even people would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting that your light skin, but your hair
Speaker 1: is not how I would expect. It's like always that.
Speaker 1: It's always something like that, or it's we wanted to
Speaker 1: do this hairstyle, Like if I'm going to a photo
Speaker 1: shoot or something, it's we wanted to do this hairstyle,
Speaker 1: but your hair is just a little difficult today or
Speaker 1: something or whatever it is. But they think that it's
Speaker 1: like totally okay to say. They think it's just Oh,
Speaker 1: it's just a fact. It's just your hair is difficult
Speaker 1: right now. It's I don't think they understand that you're
Speaker 1: not really You're not just talking about my hair at
Speaker 1: a certain point, You're talking about like me as a person.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where a lot of black women
Speaker 1: just start to feel that worth just starts to just
Speaker 1: slip away from them. They're feeling of their self worth
Speaker 1: at feeling of value because things like that are being said.
Speaker 1: They're going to work, people are saying, oh can't you
Speaker 1: it's standing up so it's so high, how do you
Speaker 1: get your hair that high? Which it's crazy. I feel
Speaker 1: like for you, will I feel like some of this
Speaker 1: started with you really young, and I remember just really listen,
Speaker 1: Willow had the prettiest hair. She has the prettiest hair,
Speaker 1: and she just didn't believe it. I didn't and I'm
Speaker 1: still trying to believe it. I'm still in the process of,
Speaker 1: like my little fro. I'm like, I need to nurture you.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to, like I say mantras in the morning,
Speaker 1: I like put the oil in my hair. I'm like
Speaker 1: really trying to. Like it's a self like regaining that
Speaker 1: like self love and that because I never had that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just I never I understood it. I just
Speaker 1: jad and I just tried so hard to fight that
Speaker 1: and give her confidence and just tell her how beautiful
Speaker 1: she had the the prettiest head of hair. What I
Speaker 1: will say is that when Mommy showed me the Rough
Speaker 1: and Stuff music video changed, that changed a lot because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm rough and stuff with my
Speaker 1: afro puffs, Okay. I was like, this is my whole life.
Speaker 1: I wish the audience could actually see us because you
Speaker 1: guys with your hair right now, is absolutely beautiful. And
Speaker 1: I had pictures a Willow with her hair when she
Speaker 1: was little, and I just couldn't understand why she didn't
Speaker 1: see what I saw. And then we're gonna go back
Speaker 1: to you know, your statement that I was really upset
Speaker 1: when will I was young and she wanted extensions, and
Speaker 1: I felt like if we allowed her to get extensions
Speaker 1: that young, that we were just it was just gonna
Speaker 1: be downhill after that, because to me, it was an
Speaker 1: admission that what was on her head was not good enough.
Speaker 1: And it was you and Kennedy. It was you and
Speaker 1: Kennedy and I just there were a lot of basically
Speaker 1: all of my black girlfriends at the time, we were
Speaker 1: all just we hate this, like we were all just
Speaker 1: we don't like the way we looked like. I would
Speaker 1: wake up in the morning and my hair because my
Speaker 1: hair is super course, so it would be like to
Speaker 1: the side and like a in like you know, those
Speaker 1: troll dolls. It would look like to the side like that,
Speaker 1: and I would look at myself and just feel so ugly,
Speaker 1: and I would cry almost every morning. And I guess
Speaker 1: I need to say too that it was really just
Speaker 1: an interesting journey because Jada and I don't have hair
Speaker 1: like Willows. Our hair, our textures. Look at my mom's
Speaker 1: hair and I'd be like, why don't have to talk?
Speaker 1: But in our family, there are so many different textures
Speaker 1: of hair. Like my mother's hair was straight and silky.
Speaker 1: So my mother and sister Karen, Karen's hair was so
Speaker 1: straight that you couldn't braid it. It wouldn't stay, we
Speaker 1: would just it would just come out. And my mother
Speaker 1: wasn't good with caring for her hair. We didn't really
Speaker 1: know how to care for our hair. And like even
Speaker 1: on my head, there's different textures in my head. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the name of my neck. For Jada and I, the
Speaker 1: nape of our necks is the straightest part of our hair.
Speaker 1: The crown is curlier, and the sides it's just friz.
Speaker 1: But it's even like learning to like there's so many
Speaker 1: different parts of yourself, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: there's so many different facets of gamming that it's like
Speaker 1: learning to accept. It's like a microcosm of yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you gotta figure it out, exactly, you gotta figure
Speaker 1: it out. We gotta love yourself, love your hair, and
Speaker 1: that's that's a life journey, you know, what I mean.
Speaker 1: I also feel again going back to the connection, especially
Speaker 1: with young girls. I have teenagers, and no matter how
Speaker 1: much I try to instill in them, it goes back
Speaker 1: to we want to fit in, we want to feel connected,
Speaker 1: and we want to feel love. So we can be
Speaker 1: saying one thing, but it's still going to be based
Speaker 1: on the reactions of the friends, people you lie and
Speaker 1: people who you want to fit in with. So you
Speaker 1: can be saying you're so beautiful, your hair so beautiful,
Speaker 1: but if somebody that she likes, you cannot control the
Speaker 1: sparkle in somebody's eye. So maybe you just want to
Speaker 1: get a sparkle in somebody's eye and you don't get it.
Speaker 1: And and so no matter how much you try to
Speaker 1: tell your children love yourself, love yourself, there's this factor
Speaker 1: of wanting to belong, feel connected, feel love, and get
Speaker 1: that sparkle that they don't get. So the idea, even
Speaker 1: as an adult, is to find a sparkle in your
Speaker 1: own eye. Yeah, and not get it from somebody else.
Speaker 1: But it's the comparison, and we just can't help it.
Speaker 1: You know. I'll tell you it was painful. No, I
Speaker 1: would always it was painful, specifically from the cousin who
Speaker 1: had the really kurt like loose curly hair, and you
Speaker 1: would always go, boys don't like girls with afros. What
Speaker 1: I'm saying, this is my point. This is exactly my point.
Speaker 1: So we just have to find a way to and
Speaker 1: it's maybe it's just a process, but that contrast to
Speaker 1: see that I don't know good until I see bad.
Speaker 1: I don't know love until I see pay. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a part of that process to game
Speaker 1: that that self love and connection. Well, I will say,
Speaker 1: you were just talking about Willow, about this self study piece.
Speaker 1: I think it's really critical because I had a very
Speaker 1: similar experience. My mother was a hair stylist, is a
Speaker 1: hair styles and so she would quarrel my hair and
Speaker 1: there's a little girl. I look, I'm like taking my
Speaker 1: little bit. But then when I got older, I started
Speaker 1: to want something different. I wanted my hair to be longer,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be like the other people. I wanted
Speaker 1: the boys to like me. All of that. Because what changed.
Speaker 1: I cut my hair off when I was seventeen, just
Speaker 1: cut it all off. And at that moment, I started
Speaker 1: asking myself a lot of questions just about who I
Speaker 1: was fast for it. I'm thirty five and I've been
Speaker 1: an educator since I was twenty two. And what I
Speaker 1: learned in that process two things. Number One, as a
Speaker 1: high school history teacher, I noticed that we spend thirteen
Speaker 1: years minimum if you go all the way through from
Speaker 1: some if you go on to college, it's more in
Speaker 1: school and not any part of that is so none
Speaker 1: of them. And so we spend all of this time
Speaker 1: being indoctrinated in all of this material, whether it's about
Speaker 1: government or health, or science or philosophies, from all of
Speaker 1: these other people, and those are truth, exact perfection, and
Speaker 1: so that's what we think about the world. Opinions of
Speaker 1: other people start to matter more because we're taught that
Speaker 1: opinions of other people hold truth, not our own experience.
Speaker 1: We can't heard of anything from everywhere else, and so
Speaker 1: this self study piece is very big. I think that's critical.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a song that you have what
Speaker 1: is it? Organization and can classification that is real, that
Speaker 1: is so real that when we do at it creates
Speaker 1: a hierarchy in our minds at ourselves and others and operate,
Speaker 1: And so I think it's self studying. I'm so glad
Speaker 1: you got that from that song. That's so many people
Speaker 1: were looking at me like, girl, this doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: We need to organize things. It's what we need to
Speaker 1: I think if we can get out of these boxes,
Speaker 1: it'll help us to break down the higherarchy. I agree.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you can't get free
Speaker 1: if you don't really know your truth. You are your
Speaker 1: own perfection. There is no such thing as perfect, there's
Speaker 1: no such thing as absolute, you know, Like we're just
Speaker 1: all on our own particular journeys. But we're in a
Speaker 1: world that wants to categorize us so much, wants to
Speaker 1: create a superiority and the supremacy that we are indoctrinated with,
Speaker 1: and so then it becomes hard to battle ourselves out.
Speaker 1: Even with the love of a like a good mother,
Speaker 1: a good grandmother, like telling us all these wonderful things,
Speaker 1: we can't get it because everything in the world is
Speaker 1: telling us. No expert, they're not the expert they are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really sad, it's true, but it's really sad to
Speaker 1: think about it. Now. Wow, And when you talk, when
Speaker 1: you put that on top of the generational trauma of
Speaker 1: being a black person, on top of that being a
Speaker 1: black woman and then you're put into this system. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just a recipe for this. Is it grow down
Speaker 1: to survival? Yeah. We just do what we have to
Speaker 1: do to just to survive. So I want to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit. Let's go back to your journey with
Speaker 1: your hair and back and what was it like when
Speaker 1: you cut your hair the first time. It wasn't the
Speaker 1: first time we cut your hair, but it was the
Speaker 1: first time that you cut it off. And I have
Speaker 1: to admit that we we did a lot of experimentation
Speaker 1: with your hair because my mom was like, we don't
Speaker 1: want to shave it all off at once. I was like,
Speaker 1: let's maybe the side, maybe half of the side exactly.
Speaker 1: But we also put heat to her hair. We wouldn't
Speaker 1: erm it, but we put heat to it, which again
Speaker 1: I did not want to do because I knew it
Speaker 1: was gonna change the texture off her hand, and I
Speaker 1: knew that would it changed the texture of your hair.
Speaker 1: I'm getting this virgin frogs. I die gress, I diegress.
Speaker 1: So you decided that you wanted to shave your hair,
Speaker 1: what would tell us what that was about. I feel
Speaker 1: like all of the pressure that I felt from like
Speaker 1: even my own peers, even my own black female peers
Speaker 1: from society, for myself, looking at the media, looking at
Speaker 1: women who were deemed attractive or desirable, all of that pressure,
Speaker 1: I feel like I just wanted to just throw it
Speaker 1: in the trash, like I just wanted to be like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to hold this anymore. I can't hold
Speaker 1: this anymore. This is becoming too heavy, and I just
Speaker 1: wanted gone. I just want it gone. I don't want
Speaker 1: to think about it. And you were so young when
Speaker 1: you made that decision. I did because it hurt very
Speaker 1: badly at a very young age to the enough, hurt
Speaker 1: enough to the point where I was like, this isn't
Speaker 1: worth it. At a certain point to feel this pain,
Speaker 1: like I'd rather just not have it and not even
Speaker 1: be able to identify with anything that has to do
Speaker 1: with having hair at all. And I feel like it
Speaker 1: was more this second time that I cut my hair
Speaker 1: was more from a place of power and from a
Speaker 1: place of love and compassion. But back in the day
Speaker 1: it was more from a place of I can't handle
Speaker 1: this anymore. It was more from a place of anxiety.
Speaker 1: So is your music guiding that or is how you're feeling?
Speaker 1: Is how you're feeling is guiding your music? Oh, how
Speaker 1: I'm feeling guide every Definitely. That's why there's two years
Speaker 1: in between each of my albums because I'm like, not
Speaker 1: feeling it, not this year, not this year. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm feeling it this year. So this last time, with
Speaker 1: the last album that you put out and you had
Speaker 1: Tyler just completely shave your head bald, What was that?
Speaker 1: What was the the process of coming to that? How
Speaker 1: did you come to that decision that you were going
Speaker 1: to number one, that you were going to shave your
Speaker 1: head and then you were going to shave it in
Speaker 1: that venue. Yeah, it took a read. It took a
Speaker 1: lot of preparation obviously because it was and I guess
Speaker 1: we should talk a little twenty four hours in a
Speaker 1: box because people don't really know that story. Yeah. Me,
Speaker 1: Me and Tyler had been working on this album in
Speaker 1: New York at Electric Lady for about I want to say,
Speaker 1: two three months, and then one day he was like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be so crazy if we just did an
Speaker 1: anxiety attack just like in the place, like people could
Speaker 1: come watch it. And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that could be super dope. But at first I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's a little risky. I'm not sure,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But then the idea started
Speaker 1: forming and I was like, oh my goodness, like this
Speaker 1: could actually be really amazing. And so we split up.
Speaker 1: We split up an anxiety attack into eight different emotions
Speaker 1: and the last emotions was like surrender and acceptance. And
Speaker 1: after going through all of those at anger for three hours,
Speaker 1: sadness for three hours, numbness for three hours, like getting
Speaker 1: into these like insane emotions, I really felt like this.
Speaker 1: It was almost like I had generated it within myself
Speaker 1: and I didn't expect it to be this powerful like
Speaker 1: I but I felt that that deep acceptance of the good,
Speaker 1: the bad, the light, the dark, like I'm here for
Speaker 1: it and I'm gonna bring I'm gonna love it with
Speaker 1: a smile, I'm gonna everything. Everything is here. And I
Speaker 1: felt like that moment was so important for me to
Speaker 1: shave my head because it was almost like I'm letting
Speaker 1: go of my path who I was, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like I'm letting go of the things that
Speaker 1: I beat myself up about. I'm letting go of my anxieties,
Speaker 1: I'm letting go of my fears and when that, when
Speaker 1: those locks hit the floor, it was like, oh honey,
Speaker 1: I'm a different person today. So in that regard, I
Speaker 1: feel like my intentions were way purer this time, and
Speaker 1: I can really feel that now and even with the
Speaker 1: regrowth of it coming back. Just like you were saying,
Speaker 1: there's a memory that comes along with tapping into it,
Speaker 1: and I feel every day and you have to pay attention.
Speaker 1: You can't just be like the memory is coming. No,
Speaker 1: you have to pay attention, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like it's a it's an internal look and every day
Speaker 1: checking in and that picture is just getting painted and
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to bring it into like myself and
Speaker 1: into action. Yeah. I just remember the feeling that I
Speaker 1: had when you started growing your dreads. It was just
Speaker 1: a feeling of the acceptance of yourself and I was
Speaker 1: just so I was like, she finally gets it. She
Speaker 1: finally is loving herself fully and understanding and believing that
Speaker 1: she's beautiful as she is. But this is even another
Speaker 1: step of that, because because when I had when I
Speaker 1: started growing my dreads, it actually happened by accident, and
Speaker 1: I was afraid because I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Like I went to my mom was accident. It was
Speaker 1: an accident. I I started dread started happening and I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, and I was like like I was
Speaker 1: panicking and my and I went to my mom and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, what do I do?
Speaker 1: And she was like, let it be, honey. It was
Speaker 1: like grow the locks, mate, why not? And so I
Speaker 1: grew the locks and through that I started having a
Speaker 1: different kind of acceptance. But now I feel like this
Speaker 1: is even deeper because I want to learn how to
Speaker 1: actually take care of my hair. I want to learn
Speaker 1: what it needs, I want to learn how to. I
Speaker 1: just want to learn it. I want to learn it
Speaker 1: as a being in its own And I feel like
Speaker 1: with the locks, I was just like do whatever, like whatever.
Speaker 1: I didn't really try to take care of it. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't really try to, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I do. I have to tell you, Stacy, you might
Speaker 1: be able to speak on this. As I was doing
Speaker 1: some of my research for this, I came across a
Speaker 1: video on YouTube and I think it took place in Canada,
Speaker 1: the French side of Canada, and there was a woman
Speaker 1: who was teaching young girls and a young black girls
Speaker 1: in a salon. How to take care of their hair.
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you, it was such a beautiful thing
Speaker 1: to watch these girls because if you don't know how
Speaker 1: to love and take care of your hair, it's hair
Speaker 1: is just so wouldn't especially yeah, and how we feel
Speaker 1: about ourselves. Can you guys speak on that. I actually
Speaker 1: think I saw that video because I think it was
Speaker 1: like in French and they translated it. Hits a little
Speaker 1: different because I have young daughters and I'm always trying
Speaker 1: to I know, no matter what I say or instill
Speaker 1: in them, they still have to feel it. They still
Speaker 1: have to They still have to feel it on their own.
Speaker 1: But equally, I do think that I don't stop saying
Speaker 1: it because they have to feel it. They just get
Speaker 1: They have to see more images of themselves as beautiful.
Speaker 1: They have to learn how to manage and take care
Speaker 1: of their hair. And that was another reason. I have
Speaker 1: several reasons why I went natural, even that word. Jay
Speaker 1: and I were talking about going natural and the hair
Speaker 1: that's going out of your head. But just even them
Speaker 1: seeing me like this and constantly saying this is beautiful,
Speaker 1: this is beautiful, or learning how to manage it is
Speaker 1: another thing. Because one of the girls in the salon
Speaker 1: that she was teaching got very emotional because she didn't
Speaker 1: know She didn't know chrom it, she didn't know how
Speaker 1: to style it. It was just a little twist something
Speaker 1: that she could do to manage her here or hearing
Speaker 1: somebody say that she was beautiful because of her hair.
Speaker 1: So I do think that there's so many layers to
Speaker 1: help to reinforce it, and if we can do it
Speaker 1: from a young age coming up, it makes it a
Speaker 1: little easy. It's not going to be easy because it's
Speaker 1: coming from so many different directions, but we just need
Speaker 1: that representation. We need those voices to nurture and to
Speaker 1: let them know it's okay to just be You don't
Speaker 1: have to be a cookie cutter. You don't have to
Speaker 1: be exactly like the person next to you. And that's like,
Speaker 1: want to repeat for me, you don't have As a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, we were having a conversation in the
Speaker 1: house my daughter. One of them started to develop a
Speaker 1: little bit earlier, so she would start to wear baggy clothes.
Speaker 1: She just did not want the attention. And I said,
Speaker 1: it's funny because depending on where you grow up, that's
Speaker 1: what you're going to want to look like. She's in
Speaker 1: school with more blacks and Latinez, so of course they
Speaker 1: want their hair to be looser, curls, They want to
Speaker 1: be a little bit more curvy. They don't want to
Speaker 1: be as tall. Isn't it crazy how you just want
Speaker 1: to be who. We get accepted by who you're around.
Speaker 1: So if you're in the school with mostly Caucasian or Indians,
Speaker 1: you want the characteristics they have. It's literally a process
Speaker 1: of this self discovery and knowing that you're beautiful in
Speaker 1: any environment. That is like the want to repeat in
Speaker 1: the house, no matter what environment you're in. What are
Speaker 1: you gonna do change every single time you get into
Speaker 1: a different environment, or just be yourself? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, ladies, how long have each
Speaker 1: of you been wearing your hair natural like this? Because
Speaker 1: I feel like we've gone in cycles. I feel like
Speaker 1: we went through a period in the sixties and seventies
Speaker 1: because I even went through it because I had long hair.
Speaker 1: So my my journey was getting my hair relaxed as
Speaker 1: I got older. But I went through the stage of
Speaker 1: wearing it like my Angela dave this after all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was a process for me to get that,
Speaker 1: Like I had to wash my hair and and roll it,
Speaker 1: section it off and put it in all these little
Speaker 1: tiny rollers all over my head to get my hair
Speaker 1: tight enough to form the afro. So even that was
Speaker 1: a process, but I just kind of feel like, like,
Speaker 1: one minute, it's acceptable. Now we've gone to this, we've
Speaker 1: and the whole wee thing. I am struggling. I am
Speaker 1: struggling with it terribly. I know it's my own issue
Speaker 1: because I think that I put more on it than
Speaker 1: people actually, But in reality, gam I actually do think
Speaker 1: that all that you're putting on it is valid because
Speaker 1: the foundation of this issue is racism, just point blank
Speaker 1: white supremacy, capitalism, racism. So these things, it's hard to
Speaker 1: clean up the one little mess in one little section
Speaker 1: of the factory that capitalism is creating, then to go
Speaker 1: to the head of it and turn off the machine,
Speaker 1: if that makes any sense, Because I feel like this,
Speaker 1: these insecurities and these cultural hurts and traumas are so deep,
Speaker 1: but they're also just branches of bigger issues that need
Speaker 1: to be addressed. So if every black woman goes, we're
Speaker 1: not going to buy your products, We're not gonna wear
Speaker 1: your weaves, We're not gonna Now there's so much money
Speaker 1: that these companies are losing because most of the people
Speaker 1: that are coming to buy this hair, that are coming
Speaker 1: to buy these products, that are coming to get the
Speaker 1: perms in the weaves are women of color. So it's
Speaker 1: a bigger I do think what you're putting on it
Speaker 1: is valid because it is. That's the foundation of it
Speaker 1: is on it already. But but is it that or
Speaker 1: is it simply to a lot of women that aren't
Speaker 1: they thing about it that deeply? Is it just a hairstyle.
Speaker 1: I've been in both seats, so safety both of them.
Speaker 1: We're both hair stylars. I'm an educator primarily now, but
Speaker 1: like as far as like the natural hair journey, I
Speaker 1: think he we right into what you're talking about Willow
Speaker 1: natural hair journeys. I mentioned before. My mother was hair
Speaker 1: stylarce I was natural all wents to ten and then
Speaker 1: put a relaxer on my hair because I wanted to
Speaker 1: be more manageable. I wanted to fit in. And then
Speaker 1: at seventeen I had this epiphany like I want my
Speaker 1: hair back because it was natural and long, and so
Speaker 1: then I cut it off and so then there's this
Speaker 1: whole self journey I've been on both ends of that though,
Speaker 1: where I wanted to wear weeds and long hair for
Speaker 1: the reasons I'm more desirable by society, and so I
Speaker 1: have guilty of buying the Malaysian hair. It's killing me.
Speaker 1: It's killing me dead. It's killing me dead. I just
Speaker 1: that idea, it is understand but but the idea of
Speaker 1: buying someone else's hair to put on my head, it's
Speaker 1: just absurd to me. And I really I don't I'm
Speaker 1: trying to talk about this without judgment, and I don't
Speaker 1: want to offend anybody, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you need to do what makes you feel good at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. It's but just for me.
Speaker 1: For me, it was and even like I grew my
Speaker 1: hair out so that I could get braids at six
Speaker 1: or six. That's the first time in my life that
Speaker 1: I had ever had braids, because it was going to
Speaker 1: require that I'm buying hair to braid into my head.
Speaker 1: But I felt like it was okay because at least
Speaker 1: I was going to have an afrocentric style. I wasn't
Speaker 1: buying hair to have it flowing down my back. That's
Speaker 1: the thing. I think it's the psychology that we have
Speaker 1: to ask questions about, right, what is the person's intention
Speaker 1: for doing it, because like weaves and winds and all
Speaker 1: of that, even straight hair, all of that existence. So
Speaker 1: there were the Nubian wigs that were more Afro styles
Speaker 1: in Egypt, and you had straight hair wings two and
Speaker 1: he had braided hair. Because when you look at the hieroglyphs,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of bangs. Yes, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: straight hair. There's a lot of straight hair. So the
Speaker 1: question becomes like, why are we doing Is this because
Speaker 1: this is just me? This is an accessory. I just
Speaker 1: like doing this. This is protective or whatever, or is
Speaker 1: it because like deeply, I do not feel good about
Speaker 1: myself unless avidence. And I think that's where it's about.
Speaker 1: Because if we have people doing this because I can't
Speaker 1: my hair the way that I feel about me, I
Speaker 1: don't like it until I must do this, then we're
Speaker 1: doing something that we need to treads. But if it's
Speaker 1: I'm just doing this because yeah, because I've been on
Speaker 1: both sides of that, that's a good point, Jay, what
Speaker 1: I hearing too, It's a level of resistance if this
Speaker 1: is my stance. If you're making a bold statement too,
Speaker 1: when you say I'm not gonna put this in my hair.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna add this. I'm this is not gonna
Speaker 1: make me pretty. This is not me. I'm You're taking
Speaker 1: a stand, so even in your way, Gam, I feel
Speaker 1: like that is your statement of resistance. This is everything
Speaker 1: you stand for, to show your natural beauty, to accept me,
Speaker 1: the natural beauty we all don't know. Gam, that's so stressful.
Speaker 1: It's so stressful trying to be trying to figure your
Speaker 1: own ship out. Oh my god, you don't know why
Speaker 1: you're doing what you're doing. Going back to the intention
Speaker 1: behind everything, why am I doing this? Am I doing
Speaker 1: this for fun, for fashion, for style? Or am I
Speaker 1: truly unhappy deeply with what I look like? Tell you what,
Speaker 1: I'm unhappy with, unhappy with the gray that I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna do. So Gam gonna keep dyeing her hair, now,
Speaker 1: that's that, because what I'm not gonna be is walking around.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that. I'm not ready. The grains
Speaker 1: could be a little disrespectful. My started coming and I
Speaker 1: have this one that decided by herself, just by herself.
Speaker 1: She could have brought her friends and leaves and made
Speaker 1: it a patch. Yeah, I think one day, Yamn. I
Speaker 1: think one day you're gonna you're gonna have the all
Speaker 1: gray main and you're just gonna be just gonna be
Speaker 1: a shaman. You're just gonna be. I definitely could see that,
Speaker 1: because that's another level of taking a bold stance as well. No,
Speaker 1: I wake up and I just don't need this anymore.
Speaker 1: What am I doing? This is too much work, This
Speaker 1: is too much, but just it. I just think it's
Speaker 1: it's a part of that that self discovery process as well.
Speaker 1: And that's a whole different conversation too, about what it
Speaker 1: means to stay beautiful. How is age perceived in in
Speaker 1: in media and society. I have this conversation with my
Speaker 1: mom all the time. It's literally turned into a great
Speaker 1: debate every single time. Yeah, I think bottom line that
Speaker 1: as more and more black women choose to look at
Speaker 1: their hair differently and choose to consciously have that relationship
Speaker 1: with their hair, it's chipping away at a system that
Speaker 1: doesn't want that, that's trying to keep us suppressed. The
Speaker 1: more that we see more people like us on magazines,
Speaker 1: on TV, whatever it is, it chips away at the
Speaker 1: very fabric of the racism. And obviously it's a huge iceberg.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, you know what I mean, It's
Speaker 1: gonna be a very arduous and long process. But the
Speaker 1: act of an individual woman of color saying I love
Speaker 1: my hair and I'm going to I'm going to treat
Speaker 1: myself and my hair like it's sacred. That is heat
Speaker 1: for the iceberg of racism. That is like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna keep blowing heat at this iceberg. Like the
Speaker 1: whole the premise of supremacy. So I'm of this peace
Speaker 1: called white supremacist a faulty. And I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: it's fake in the sense that people don't actually have dominance.
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying. But what I am saying
Speaker 1: is it requires a psychological agreement. And so as long
Speaker 1: as we are people who believe and the idea of
Speaker 1: white power, white dominant, it exists. So what you're talking about,
Speaker 1: this idea that we decide no, actually, you're wrong. I'm
Speaker 1: beautiful the way that I am. It does this energetic
Speaker 1: shift and it challenges this system. So this whole system
Speaker 1: where it is reliant on our belief, it is reliant
Speaker 1: on us agreeing to suppression. We have to agree to
Speaker 1: it and that's a part of the conversation that we
Speaker 1: don't talk about as much. We do talk a lot
Speaker 1: about white dominance. It's real. I'm not saying it's not.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying there's another part of the conversation that
Speaker 1: we need to have that. I think what you just
Speaker 1: brought up will it is really critical. We do have
Speaker 1: to start attacking like this piece of self love and
Speaker 1: self Yeah, it's like a lastional spiritual piece that says,
Speaker 1: we a minute, the whole world wants to look like me.
Speaker 1: Why don't I want to look like me? What happens
Speaker 1: when I do? Stacy, you and I were talking just
Speaker 1: a second ago without the fact that as this natural
Speaker 1: hair movement started to bowl again, right, like we're seeing
Speaker 1: another bull another way. Right, those are hand in hand.
Speaker 1: You don't have one. We have together. The more that
Speaker 1: we love ourselves and accept ourselves, the more that we
Speaker 1: recognize our value, the more that we see that we
Speaker 1: are born free, not becoming free. So when you realize
Speaker 1: that you are born free, you are already free, you
Speaker 1: become indignant, You become our issues, and that shifts the game,
Speaker 1: and that is what people are afraid. This is the
Speaker 1: reason why cutting hair off and telling people that they're
Speaker 1: ugly and saying about matters so much, but you don't
Speaker 1: believe that you act differently in the that this suppression
Speaker 1: has created. And so long as we keep evolving in
Speaker 1: this way and loving ourselves in this way, this whole
Speaker 1: system falls that. While we're talking, that was that was
Speaker 1: really important, Jay, Thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: The thing is, as we're talking, like my spirit is
Speaker 1: bubbling up a little bit because we accept it and
Speaker 1: then we believe a new truth about ourselves. But then
Speaker 1: there's the wall that we often hit when there's the
Speaker 1: rejection and when there's trauma, and when there's the punishment
Speaker 1: that I keep saying the punishment versus the reward. So
Speaker 1: what is it? Boys? Is another level of education that Okay,
Speaker 1: so someone told me that I'm not beautiful, but I
Speaker 1: believe I am. Someone told me that I'm not smart,
Speaker 1: but I believe I am. Someone told me that I
Speaker 1: would never make it, but I know I can. And
Speaker 1: then you get the rejection from let's just say those
Speaker 1: three areas. What is that next? Because most people will say, oh,
Speaker 1: they didn't like it, it's not true. So and SO
Speaker 1: didn't accept me. So it must be wrong. Thinks I'm ugly,
Speaker 1: so it must be that. So what is that next step?
Speaker 1: You believe it right, because we're trying to dismantle this whole.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's community because you need to hook
Speaker 1: up with the other girl who said girl this and
Speaker 1: this and I know this, but we need to link
Speaker 1: up and you both are like okay, so, and it's
Speaker 1: developing your support system, your own village and of like
Speaker 1: minded people and women who have the same struggles that
Speaker 1: you have and who are trying to overcome, who are
Speaker 1: trying to overcome them through compassion and through self acceptance.
Speaker 1: And that community when you can step together, I feel
Speaker 1: like that's very important. That's powerful. So that's really where
Speaker 1: I wanted to go with it, Like, all right, we
Speaker 1: believe it, we're dismantling it, but how can we keep
Speaker 1: it strong and keep their momentum going with the boil
Speaker 1: down to that support and that community because that trauma
Speaker 1: is real and we know it. Yes, okay, so easily, Stacy.
Speaker 1: You have talked about it before too. And as far
Speaker 1: as representation representation and companies, represent representation and corporate world's
Speaker 1: representation on the magazine covers all of that. We need
Speaker 1: to see ourselves as well, arm and arm somebody in
Speaker 1: every single l And even what we're doing right now
Speaker 1: with all of us is away of us going oh,
Speaker 1: we are armed in this concept, and and we're going
Speaker 1: to tell the world what we think about this. We're
Speaker 1: going to give them a little piece of our minds,
Speaker 1: and we're not talking down the story shares critical because
Speaker 1: I think the other thing is like, so many of
Speaker 1: our stories get lost that sometimes we believe we're the
Speaker 1: only one. So not just in the moment, but this
Speaker 1: hair movement has gone on for it all. When you
Speaker 1: go back to people who were running away from slavery,
Speaker 1: the posters would often note that these people have gone
Speaker 1: wayward with their hair. And so people were making statements
Speaker 1: even then about how they wanted to be seen and
Speaker 1: what freedom meant. So this is a long movement. There
Speaker 1: there are bones of courts. I'm sorry, I just I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that I heard you correctly, because
Speaker 1: that blew my mind. So runaway slaves would be put
Speaker 1: on posters and they'd be like, if you see this
Speaker 1: black person with crazy hair, you need to bring them
Speaker 1: back to me. Yeah, So there's evidence of people who
Speaker 1: were running away making the choice. And as a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, there is a name I wanted to share.
Speaker 1: Hopefully I can find it in time of this woman,
Speaker 1: Francis Harper. Francis Harper. She's an author who wore core roles.
Speaker 1: This is eighteen six seven mm. So like this movement
Speaker 1: and this Lee Tyson being one of the first to
Speaker 1: wear corn rolls on TV. So like, there's the icons.
Speaker 1: The pop culture has a big part of this movement too,
Speaker 1: and I think it's important that we name those folks
Speaker 1: and share those stories. So because that's a part of
Speaker 1: the community to right, like we have to be able
Speaker 1: to see ourselves of course, and also share those stories
Speaker 1: over and over. You're not the only one, You're not
Speaker 1: the first. This is a long movement, and so when
Speaker 1: we say like it takes a long time. I started
Speaker 1: pushing back on that. I was like, no, we're here,
Speaker 1: we're we're free, We're ready. It's time. We've been doing this,
Speaker 1: it's overdue. We are ready now naming that and naming
Speaker 1: those names and calling them forwards and celebrating them. Of Brandy,
Speaker 1: I need to call her out because like because when
Speaker 1: she was wearing braves, Remember I don't know if you'll
Speaker 1: remember when she did Cinderella and that was a big
Speaker 1: deal because he's the first class Cinderella on TV and
Speaker 1: she wore breaks, and so if those things matter, and
Speaker 1: we need to remember them and name them and call
Speaker 1: them out. Or you wore locks. So it wasn't Brandy Wait, no,
Speaker 1: was it the Crimmins? It was remember that and it
Speaker 1: was like thirteen ish or something like that. It was
Speaker 1: a bigger warship. It was huge. And so at those
Speaker 1: moments we have to remember them and name them because
Speaker 1: that is a part of building this community, of remembering
Speaker 1: the fact that we have been doing this. We are
Speaker 1: here here, y'all just gotta accepted. Hello. Hello, that's part
Speaker 1: all right. So I want to talk briefly about the
Speaker 1: Crown Act. And this is a law that prohibits the
Speaker 1: discrimination against someone for wearing their hair natural or in
Speaker 1: protective styles like box knots, twists, and braids. Listen the
Speaker 1: fact that there act. It just became law. It's this
Speaker 1: is recent. It just became law. Was first introduced in
Speaker 1: California in January of twenty nineteen and signed into law
Speaker 1: on July three, and so it's currently only illegal to
Speaker 1: discriminate against black people and or people of color in
Speaker 1: their hair in seven states, and those states being California, Washington, Colorado,
Speaker 1: New York, New Jersey, Virginia, and Maryland. So you can
Speaker 1: fire someone from wearing braids to work? How am I
Speaker 1: supposed to wear my head? How much? If I can't
Speaker 1: wear it in the knots, if I can't wear it
Speaker 1: in braids, if I can't wear it in locks, then
Speaker 1: I should. Yeah, it's insane. It's insane that we have
Speaker 1: to get permission handle that because I'm speechless. This goes
Speaker 1: back to punishment and rewards, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So no matter how much you try to go around it,
Speaker 1: you want to still be faced with it. It's not
Speaker 1: just in the workplace. It's in schools too, as far
Speaker 1: as their uniform, as far as looking professional, as far
Speaker 1: as looking clean or kept. Why is this an issue
Speaker 1: that I cannot be myself? So it further feeds into
Speaker 1: that narrative of not being your authentic self or just
Speaker 1: having to do what you have to do to survive
Speaker 1: to fit in. I was telling I don't know if
Speaker 1: it was who I was falling a jay. I was
Speaker 1: basically telling them about an experience that I had as
Speaker 1: an up and coming stylist. I wanted to be a
Speaker 1: celebrity stylist, honey, because my parents did not want me
Speaker 1: to do hay. So I'm just like, if I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do it, I need to do whatever the highest thing is. Anyway,
Speaker 1: so I end up in this salon, this big New
Speaker 1: York City salon which I will not name, and I
Speaker 1: got hired. It was a big deal. It was predominantly
Speaker 1: Caucasian salon. When I got hired, I was one of
Speaker 1: two or three or maybe two and I got hired.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even thinking about my skin color at that time.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get this job. I wanted to
Speaker 1: get to Fashion Week so bad. I just want to
Speaker 1: I just wanted it for so bad. So anyway, I
Speaker 1: got the interview, I got hired, and they I went
Speaker 1: to the interview with straight here, a straight pixie cut.
Speaker 1: They loved it. They loved me. And on Monday when
Speaker 1: I showed up for training, I had braids. Let me
Speaker 1: give you the story behind that. Quickly. I got the
Speaker 1: braids because I didn't want to mess up brain. For us,
Speaker 1: it's low maintenance. We can go to the gym out
Speaker 1: the vacation or whatever. So I got the braids as
Speaker 1: something to help me so I wouldn't be late and
Speaker 1: I didn't have to fuss about my hair child. I
Speaker 1: got to work on Monday. You would have thought they
Speaker 1: saw a casper to go. They told me I had
Speaker 1: to take it out if I wanted to work there,
Speaker 1: because that was not a part of their dress code.
Speaker 1: Back then, I didn't know any better. Against rival my
Speaker 1: I want to get to fashion Week, I want to
Speaker 1: get backstage, I want to do these things. So it
Speaker 1: took me twelve more or more hours to get the
Speaker 1: braids in, and it took me six hours to take
Speaker 1: them out. But the point is I took them out.
Speaker 1: I didn't have anybody or any reason in my mind
Speaker 1: to think it was wrong. It was just like, this
Speaker 1: is what you have to do. Backt forward to with
Speaker 1: all of this media coverage, we know that this is absurd,
Speaker 1: this isolation, this is a violation of your rights. I
Speaker 1: was violated. And when I said that story, so many
Speaker 1: people had similar situations where they had to change their
Speaker 1: hair for to get a job, okay, to get a
Speaker 1: job interview. They would wear it like this, but too
Speaker 1: they had to wear you know, something that was more acceptable.
Speaker 1: I absolutely stand for the Crown Act. I've signed a petition, Yes,
Speaker 1: I signed a petition as well. The fact that is
Speaker 1: happening with kids. You remember the case of the wrestler.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what state it was, but the wrestler
Speaker 1: and the coach cut off his dreads during the match.
Speaker 1: I was like, what dress cod So they had a
Speaker 1: uniform for the sport. They had to even have their
Speaker 1: hair pulled back or something like that in order to
Speaker 1: be a part of dress code and then uniform, and
Speaker 1: he was about to be disqualified, and they looked so
Speaker 1: hard as athletes to get to that point. Get it.
Speaker 1: It's just it's ridiculous, this forcing us to once again
Speaker 1: assimilate into their standards of beauty. But the idea in
Speaker 1: that there has to be a law to prevent us
Speaker 1: from being fired. Everybody bearing our hair in its natural
Speaker 1: state everyone should. And I think we'll try to pose
Speaker 1: something like a link where you can go and sign
Speaker 1: the petition for supporting the Crown Act. That is extremely important. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. I'm surprised that black people haven't just been like,
Speaker 1: you know what we're gonna We're just gonna go somewhere else.
Speaker 1: We're all of us, We're gonna, we're all gonna, we're
Speaker 1: all gonna come together, and we're just gonna go somewhere
Speaker 1: else because this no okay, we I hate to interrupt
Speaker 1: the conversation, ladies, I want you to stay right there,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately Willow has to leave us. So I just
Speaker 1: want to ask you, Willow, do you have any last
Speaker 1: words on this topic that you want to share before
Speaker 1: you make your exit. Yes, I just want to say,
Speaker 1: not just for black people and not just for black women,
Speaker 1: but when a human individual decides to accept themselves with
Speaker 1: no boundaries and no limits, that challenges every system, every system,
Speaker 1: and probably many people around them. Yeah, it challenges everything
Speaker 1: that the modern way of looking at human life has created.
Speaker 1: And I'm ready for for the challenge. And I'm ready.
Speaker 1: I'm ready for the challenge to just keep growing and
Speaker 1: to keep going and for us to create something better
Speaker 1: and something different. That's amazing you. I love you, Okay.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to do our rapid fire questions with you. Okay.
Speaker 1: So the first one is really simple, what books are
Speaker 1: you currently reading? So I just finished the last book
Speaker 1: of the Clan of the Cave Bear series. There's six books. Okay,
Speaker 1: you've been telling me about that series. Okay. I have
Speaker 1: such a love and such a fascination about prehistorical human dynamics.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: very interesting and amazing, and these six books changed my
Speaker 1: life forever. Gene m Owl, You'll always be in my heart.
Speaker 1: You're an amazing author. You're probably not listening to this
Speaker 1: right now, but I love you so much. Okay. And
Speaker 1: what's one thing that you want to get off your
Speaker 1: chest about any topic? One thing? Oh, one thing I
Speaker 1: want to get off my chest. I have been feeling recently,
Speaker 1: specifically my generation. We spend so much time looking at
Speaker 1: what's happening externally in the world and the problems that
Speaker 1: are happening externally in the world that I feel like,
Speaker 1: solely but surely we're losing Remember when we were talking
Speaker 1: about that self study. I feel like we're losing the
Speaker 1: ability but also the focus focus exactly, the focus to
Speaker 1: observe our inner world in such a way that confusion
Speaker 1: that we're always feeling about this uncertainty that we're getting
Speaker 1: from social media or we're getting from whatever it is
Speaker 1: that inner foundation of self love and self knowledge that
Speaker 1: those emotions can sit on top of that and not
Speaker 1: weigh us down into this dark place that we feel
Speaker 1: like we can't get out of. That. I see a
Speaker 1: lot of my peers getting into, especially during quarantine. Yeah
Speaker 1: that was long, but yeah, so maybe it's more about
Speaker 1: put down the phone and start doing some internal internal work. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: And the last thing, what's a motto that you live by? Who?
Speaker 1: Motto that I live by? Wow? The darkness and the
Speaker 1: light are equally beautiful m and accept them both with compassion.
Speaker 1: That's how I want to live my life. And may
Speaker 1: you have it. Words of wisdom from my baby girl.
Speaker 1: The whole made it to the earth. Oh, thank you
Speaker 1: so much ladies for joining me. This was an excellent conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you Jay Lissha, Thank you Stacy Cisseron. Thank you
Speaker 1: Willow for joining us on this conversation. Tell us where
Speaker 1: people can find you on social media. I'll start off
Speaker 1: I saying thank you for having me. This has been
Speaker 1: an honor and a lot of fun. If anyone wants
Speaker 1: to continue um talking with me at any point, you
Speaker 1: can find me on my website David sha dot com,
Speaker 1: where I continue with freedom Activision of all sorts, perfect
Speaker 1: and Stacy, I would concur thank you so much for
Speaker 1: giving me the opportunity to use my voice, and if
Speaker 1: you want to continue the conversation with me, I'm offering
Speaker 1: education to hairstylists and everyday women about how to manage
Speaker 1: and maintain highly textured hair. You can find me at
Speaker 1: Stacey cisseron dot com. Thank you so much. Ladies, like Willow,
Speaker 1: we all have our own hair story. It's our role
Speaker 1: to teach our children the history they won't learn in school,
Speaker 1: so they develop a sense of pride about themselves and
Speaker 1: their culture. We are there to support, guide and give
Speaker 1: them a safe place to land because the world is
Speaker 1: a harsh critic. Prayerfully, however they choose to rocket, our
Speaker 1: children will love themselves fully and unapologetically, including their hair. Tomorrow,
Speaker 1: I'll continue my discussion on hair, so check back for
Speaker 1: part two. If you're listening on Apple Podcast, be sure
Speaker 1: to rate and review. Follow me on my Instagram at
Speaker 1: Gammy Norris to share with me your thoughts on the episode.
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm talking, and I'm listening. As always, stay grateful,
Speaker 1: all positively. Gam is produced by Westbrook Audio Executive producers
Speaker 1: Adrian Banfield, Norris, Jada Pinkett Smith, Amanda Brown and Fallon
Speaker 1: Jethro Co executive producer sim Hoti, editor and mixer Calvin Bailiff.
Speaker 1: Positively gam is in partnership with Art Nineteens h m
Speaker 1: HM