WEBVTT - Black Hair Part 1 w/ Willow Smith, Stacey Ciceron & J. LeShae 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:05.520 Positively Gam is sponsored by Vasiline. See how they are 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:14.079 working towards equitable skin care for all at Basiline dot com. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.520 I don't think they understand You're not just talking about 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.600 my hair at a certain point, You're talking about like 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.599 me as a person. I feel like for you, will 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.000 I feel like some of this started with you. Really 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.080 young Willow has the prettiest hair, and she just didn't 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.360 believe it. I didn't and I'm still trying to believe it. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:39.240 What's up, everybody, I'm Gammy and this is positively gam. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.040 Every week I have raw, in depth conversations with inspirational 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:49.120 people pushing for change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness, 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.360 to the current issues facing the black community. Okay, joining 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.480 me is a lovely panel of strong black women starting 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.800 with one of my heartbeats. I love granddaughter Willow, and 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:07.720 we have celebrity hairstylist Stacy Cisseron and hair historian Jay Lash. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.800 I really wanted to have this conversation. I've wanted to 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.000 have it for a really long time. I know hair 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.960 is supposed to be a woman's glory, but I don't 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:24.200 know any Black woman who hasn't had a vacillating relationship 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.520 with their hair. I know I have over the years, 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.600 and I really think a lot of the struggle has 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:35.840 to do with how we've been brainwashed for centuries. I 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:41.160 think that's that awakening and that understanding is something that 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.880 has been suppressed for so long that I feel like 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.160 just now even myself, like with me shaving my head 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:53.000 and with me like trying to regrow that regrow physically 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.960 and spiritually. That relationship with my hair, I feel is 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:02.280 so important because as a young girl, it was rough 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.800 with my hair like it was, Yeah, it was, and 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.200 that I hated my hair goes back to all the 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:14.359 brainwashing that we went through, making us feel like we 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.000 had we had to in order for us to have 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.600 any kind of self esteem about ourselves. Over the years, 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:27.079 it was about assimilating into the culture of the colonizers 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.440 and the way we looked in the way we dressed. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.400 I remember you got mad one time because I wanted 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.679 to get extensions. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that. We go, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.840 we're gonna talk about that. But I just want to 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.160 get to this point and I want you to get 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.560 us up to the point where we start mixing m 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:53.160 h you know, not yeah, breapes happening on plantations. And 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.400 when you start this process, a couple of things happened. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.200 Number One, you have people who are now vibracial in 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:06.239 their hair texture is softer, curls are looser, They're considered prettier. 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.320 And so this is where you start the term good 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:15.040 hair creazy kid, like what's how pretty he is? And 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.440 there is a high arty created with white boats that 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:23.040 we've been internalized amongst themselves. And so there are documented 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:28.120 cases of light skinned black folks having separate church ceremonies 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.200 for themselves from the dark skin black felting. This is 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.480 during inst So this is when we start that process. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.960 We internalized that inferiority and start to believe it. And 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.160 it's been going on for generations and generations. So you 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:46.800 can see how we start separating from one another based 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:54.120 on the brainwashing that we've Black women with other black women, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:04:00.920 because like when I was younger, there would be like 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.760 even family members that were my peers, like my cousins 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.040 or whatever it was. Because I had one cousin that 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:12.960 had really beautiful flowing her and every time I would 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.280 just look at her and I would just because you're 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.320 so beautiful, like I want that, And every time I 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.920 would bring it up, she would always just be like, 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.920 not everyone can, and it would and it would be 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.040 it was like a real hurt for me, Like I 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.760 was like wow. And then she'd be like trying to 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.960 be like maybe you should get a weave, maybe you 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:33.840 should get a perm maybe you should you know, and 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:35.920 like all of these things, and like other black women, 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.760 not even trying to be like no, like you're beautiful, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:53.039 Like we're different, but we're beautiful together. Okay. So I 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.720 want to take us back to the good hair, bad hair, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.719 because now we we understand where it all came from. 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.240 But and actually that was a real stickler for me 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.600 when I was growing up. I hated that because I 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.159 had long braids and all of that. But the good hair, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:15.000 bad hair, I'm guilty. What are the proper terms that 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.680 we should use when we're trying to describe our hair 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.919 and not the good hair bad hair? Stacy, let me 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.840 tell you while you're talking my my brain, my emotions. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.479 It's it's such a trigger for us that I have 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.359 about fifty million thoughts that just came to me. But 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.279 the first thing that came to me is the reward 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.200 and the punishment First of all, that comes with good 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.599 hair bad here. So even if you don't want to 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.240 believe it, like oh I have beautiful hair, I have this, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.200 I have that. We go back to the punishment versus 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.400 the reward. Okay, so what happens with the person with 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.880 the good hair? Are they getting different opportunities, are they 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.360 getting different chances, are they being more visible? Are they 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.640 being taken seriously? Because there's a lot of things that 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.960 come in with the hair, with the complexion and different 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.920 things like that. So when I think about good hair 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.520 bad hair as a professional, I could not refer to 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.440 it that way. Especially with teaching consumers and teaching hair stylists, 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.320 we refer to it more by its characteristics. What does 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.680 it look like? Is it straight? Is it wavy? Is 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.800 it coyly? Is it curly? That's more like how we 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.559 refer to hair texture, hair type, density, perosity, and things 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.760 like that. But even within our excuse me, I was 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.240 just saying, because those words don't like, throw shade on 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.120 the person you're talking now, because they're they're facts. They're now. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.680 But I'm not gonna say that I did not hear 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.680 it growing up and even within having a Caribbean background, 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.160 and in in all of that comes with But the 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.599 good hair bad hair, to me comes with the punishment 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.120 versus reward. Even though we switch it in our in 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:01.359 our vocabulary, in our conversations, We're still gonna be punish somehow. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.640 We're still maybe not going to get the job opportunities 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.480 or get noticed by somebody that we like, somebody that 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.400 we are attracted to make. What good here versus bad here? 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.680 So this is what I'm saying. So that's my take 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:16.720 on the good here, bad here. We would have to 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.880 dig a little deeper to correct the punishment versus the 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.680 rewards because that's the exact replica of that culture that 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.240 we pay from the exact same thing. You got different treatment, 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.920 better jobs, right on the plantation for lighter skin, longer hair, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:38.000 even with amongst ourselves we do that. So yeah, we're 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.440 doing the exact same thing, and we haven't unlearned that 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:46.040 behavior is coper use of rooting. Yeah, good is desirable, desirable. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.000 That is not desirable. And I don't know how true 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.120 this is. We these things pop up on the Internet 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.120 saying that black women are the least desirable women of 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.880 all So that comes with its thing too. I feel 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:02.560 like that I can't tell you how much that narrative, 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.760 how much I've seen that narrative, and how much I've 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.480 just been around it. Even even people would be like, oh, 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.160 it's so interesting that your light skin, but your hair 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.520 is not how I would expect. It's like always that. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.120 It's always something like that, or it's we wanted to 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.200 do this hairstyle, Like if I'm going to a photo 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.760 shoot or something, it's we wanted to do this hairstyle, 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.560 but your hair is just a little difficult today or 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.280 something or whatever it is. But they think that it's 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.880 like totally okay to say. They think it's just Oh, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:34.760 it's just a fact. It's just your hair is difficult 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:39.000 right now. It's I don't think they understand that you're 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.160 not really You're not just talking about my hair at 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.520 a certain point, You're talking about like me as a person. 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.320 And I think that's where a lot of black women 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.360 just start to feel that worth just starts to just 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:53.760 slip away from them. They're feeling of their self worth 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.360 at feeling of value because things like that are being said. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.839 They're going to work, people are saying, oh can't you 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.120 it's standing up so it's so high, how do you 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.240 get your hair that high? Which it's crazy. I feel 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.199 like for you, will I feel like some of this 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.840 started with you really young, and I remember just really listen, 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.960 Willow had the prettiest hair. She has the prettiest hair, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.000 and she just didn't believe it. I didn't and I'm 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.079 still trying to believe it. I'm still in the process of, 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.599 like my little fro. I'm like, I need to nurture you. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.079 I'm trying to, like I say mantras in the morning, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.280 I like put the oil in my hair. I'm like 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.679 really trying to. Like it's a self like regaining that 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.840 like self love and that because I never had that. Yeah, 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.079 and I just I never I understood it. I just 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.280 jad and I just tried so hard to fight that 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:53.120 and give her confidence and just tell her how beautiful 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.040 she had the the prettiest head of hair. What I 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.480 will say is that when Mommy showed me the Rough 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.600 and Stuff music video changed, that changed a lot because 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.240 I was like, oh, I'm rough and stuff with my 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:11.040 afro puffs, Okay. I was like, this is my whole life. 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.920 I wish the audience could actually see us because you 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.319 guys with your hair right now, is absolutely beautiful. And 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.480 I had pictures a Willow with her hair when she 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.840 was little, and I just couldn't understand why she didn't 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.800 see what I saw. And then we're gonna go back 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.800 to you know, your statement that I was really upset 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:35.000 when will I was young and she wanted extensions, and 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:40.040 I felt like if we allowed her to get extensions 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.040 that young, that we were just it was just gonna 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.760 be downhill after that, because to me, it was an 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.280 admission that what was on her head was not good enough. 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.800 And it was you and Kennedy. It was you and 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.160 Kennedy and I just there were a lot of basically 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.760 all of my black girlfriends at the time, we were 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.760 all just we hate this, like we were all just 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.200 we don't like the way we looked like. I would 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.400 wake up in the morning and my hair because my 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.480 hair is super course, so it would be like to 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.000 the side and like a in like you know, those 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.079 troll dolls. It would look like to the side like that, 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.840 and I would look at myself and just feel so ugly, 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.600 and I would cry almost every morning. And I guess 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.000 I need to say too that it was really just 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.000 an interesting journey because Jada and I don't have hair 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.040 like Willows. Our hair, our textures. Look at my mom's 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:34.920 hair and I'd be like, why don't have to talk? 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.680 But in our family, there are so many different textures 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:45.440 of hair. Like my mother's hair was straight and silky. 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.640 So my mother and sister Karen, Karen's hair was so 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.199 straight that you couldn't braid it. It wouldn't stay, we 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.320 would just it would just come out. And my mother 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.640 wasn't good with caring for her hair. We didn't really 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.720 know how to care for our hair. And like even 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.920 on my head, there's different textures in my head. Yeah, 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.599 the name of my neck. For Jada and I, the 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.319 nape of our necks is the straightest part of our hair. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.560 The crown is curlier, and the sides it's just friz. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.240 But it's even like learning to like there's so many 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.480 different parts of yourself, you know what I mean, Like 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.599 there's so many different facets of gamming that it's like 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:31.040 learning to accept. It's like a microcosm of yourself. Yeah, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.760 so you gotta figure it out, exactly, you gotta figure 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.079 it out. We gotta love yourself, love your hair, and 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.480 that's that's a life journey, you know, what I mean. 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.800 I also feel again going back to the connection, especially 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.880 with young girls. I have teenagers, and no matter how 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.560 much I try to instill in them, it goes back 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.080 to we want to fit in, we want to feel connected, 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.319 and we want to feel love. So we can be 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.079 saying one thing, but it's still going to be based 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.319 on the reactions of the friends, people you lie and 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.120 people who you want to fit in with. So you 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.880 can be saying you're so beautiful, your hair so beautiful, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.400 but if somebody that she likes, you cannot control the 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.719 sparkle in somebody's eye. So maybe you just want to 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.240 get a sparkle in somebody's eye and you don't get it. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.280 And and so no matter how much you try to 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.120 tell your children love yourself, love yourself, there's this factor 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.800 of wanting to belong, feel connected, feel love, and get 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.600 that sparkle that they don't get. So the idea, even 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.320 as an adult, is to find a sparkle in your 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.760 own eye. Yeah, and not get it from somebody else. 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.400 But it's the comparison, and we just can't help it. 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.280 You know. I'll tell you it was painful. No, I 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:44.199 would always it was painful, specifically from the cousin who 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:49.040 had the really kurt like loose curly hair, and you 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:53.760 would always go, boys don't like girls with afros. What 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.199 I'm saying, this is my point. This is exactly my point. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.240 So we just have to find a way to and 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.719 it's maybe it's just a process, but that contrast to 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.280 see that I don't know good until I see bad. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.880 I don't know love until I see pay. I don't know. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.800 Maybe it's just a part of that process to game 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.520 that that self love and connection. Well, I will say, 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.400 you were just talking about Willow, about this self study piece. 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.160 I think it's really critical because I had a very 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.800 similar experience. My mother was a hair stylist, is a 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.360 hair styles and so she would quarrel my hair and 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.360 there's a little girl. I look, I'm like taking my 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:32.720 little bit. But then when I got older, I started 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.360 to want something different. I wanted my hair to be longer, 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.560 I wanted to be like the other people. I wanted 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.000 the boys to like me. All of that. Because what changed. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.600 I cut my hair off when I was seventeen, just 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:49.120 cut it all off. And at that moment, I started 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.720 asking myself a lot of questions just about who I 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.360 was fast for it. I'm thirty five and I've been 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.320 an educator since I was twenty two. And what I 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.640 learned in that process two things. Number One, as a 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:06.040 high school history teacher, I noticed that we spend thirteen 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.360 years minimum if you go all the way through from 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.320 some if you go on to college, it's more in 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.760 school and not any part of that is so none 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.480 of them. And so we spend all of this time 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.360 being indoctrinated in all of this material, whether it's about 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.840 government or health, or science or philosophies, from all of 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:30.920 these other people, and those are truth, exact perfection, and 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.560 so that's what we think about the world. Opinions of 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.600 other people start to matter more because we're taught that 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.400 opinions of other people hold truth, not our own experience. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.800 We can't heard of anything from everywhere else, and so 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.840 this self study piece is very big. I think that's critical. 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.760 And I think there's a song that you have what 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:57.640 is it? Organization and can classification that is real, that 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.680 is so real that when we do at it creates 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:07.160 a hierarchy in our minds at ourselves and others and operate, 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.400 And so I think it's self studying. I'm so glad 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.120 you got that from that song. That's so many people 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.440 were looking at me like, girl, this doesn't make any sense. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.480 We need to organize things. It's what we need to 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.800 I think if we can get out of these boxes, 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.080 it'll help us to break down the higherarchy. I agree. 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.840 It's one of those things where you can't get free 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.640 if you don't really know your truth. You are your 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.880 own perfection. There is no such thing as perfect, there's 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:44.000 no such thing as absolute, you know, Like we're just 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.160 all on our own particular journeys. But we're in a 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.520 world that wants to categorize us so much, wants to 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.920 create a superiority and the supremacy that we are indoctrinated with, 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.520 and so then it becomes hard to battle ourselves out. 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:00.880 Even with the love of a like a good mother, 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.960 a good grandmother, like telling us all these wonderful things, 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.000 we can't get it because everything in the world is 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:11.600 telling us. No expert, they're not the expert they are. Yeah, 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.680 that's really sad, it's true, but it's really sad to 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.520 think about it. Now. Wow, And when you talk, when 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.440 you put that on top of the generational trauma of 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.200 being a black person, on top of that being a 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:31.400 black woman and then you're put into this system. Yeah, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.320 it's just a recipe for this. Is it grow down 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.240 to survival? Yeah. We just do what we have to 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:51.280 do to just to survive. So I want to talk 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.680 a little bit. Let's go back to your journey with 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.400 your hair and back and what was it like when 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.040 you cut your hair the first time. It wasn't the 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.200 first time we cut your hair, but it was the 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.399 first time that you cut it off. And I have 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.680 to admit that we we did a lot of experimentation 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.240 with your hair because my mom was like, we don't 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.359 want to shave it all off at once. I was like, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.400 let's maybe the side, maybe half of the side exactly. 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.320 But we also put heat to her hair. We wouldn't 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.240 erm it, but we put heat to it, which again 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.000 I did not want to do because I knew it 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.800 was gonna change the texture off her hand, and I 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.320 knew that would it changed the texture of your hair. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.760 I'm getting this virgin frogs. I die gress, I diegress. 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.080 So you decided that you wanted to shave your hair, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.520 what would tell us what that was about. I feel 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:52.600 like all of the pressure that I felt from like 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.240 even my own peers, even my own black female peers 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.439 from society, for myself, looking at the media, looking at 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:05.880 women who were deemed attractive or desirable, all of that pressure, 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.720 I feel like I just wanted to just throw it 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:10.920 in the trash, like I just wanted to be like, 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.280 I don't want to hold this anymore. I can't hold 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.399 this anymore. This is becoming too heavy, and I just 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.240 wanted gone. I just want it gone. I don't want 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.119 to think about it. And you were so young when 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.040 you made that decision. I did because it hurt very 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.280 badly at a very young age to the enough, hurt 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.200 enough to the point where I was like, this isn't 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.920 worth it. At a certain point to feel this pain, 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.280 like I'd rather just not have it and not even 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.560 be able to identify with anything that has to do 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.879 with having hair at all. And I feel like it 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.520 was more this second time that I cut my hair 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:50.560 was more from a place of power and from a 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.280 place of love and compassion. But back in the day 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.160 it was more from a place of I can't handle 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.760 this anymore. It was more from a place of anxiety. 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.880 So is your music guiding that or is how you're feeling? 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.159 Is how you're feeling is guiding your music? Oh, how 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:11.440 I'm feeling guide every Definitely. That's why there's two years 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.560 in between each of my albums because I'm like, not 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.520 feeling it, not this year, not this year. Okay, I'm 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.359 I'm feeling it this year. So this last time, with 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.920 the last album that you put out and you had 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:28.000 Tyler just completely shave your head bald, What was that? 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.760 What was the the process of coming to that? How 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.199 did you come to that decision that you were going 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:35.959 to number one, that you were going to shave your 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.080 head and then you were going to shave it in 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.520 that venue. Yeah, it took a read. It took a 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.680 lot of preparation obviously because it was and I guess 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.359 we should talk a little twenty four hours in a 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:51.280 box because people don't really know that story. Yeah. Me, 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.879 Me and Tyler had been working on this album in 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.840 New York at Electric Lady for about I want to say, 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.119 two three months, and then one day he was like, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.000 wouldn't it be so crazy if we just did an 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.280 anxiety attack just like in the place, like people could 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:12.160 come watch it. And I was like, oh my god, 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.720 that could be super dope. But at first I was like, 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.120 I don't know, that's a little risky. I'm not sure, 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.159 you know what I mean. But then the idea started 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.639 forming and I was like, oh my goodness, like this 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.040 could actually be really amazing. And so we split up. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.640 We split up an anxiety attack into eight different emotions 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.760 and the last emotions was like surrender and acceptance. And 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.360 after going through all of those at anger for three hours, 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.840 sadness for three hours, numbness for three hours, like getting 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:45.240 into these like insane emotions, I really felt like this. 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.280 It was almost like I had generated it within myself 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.200 and I didn't expect it to be this powerful like 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:55.520 I but I felt that that deep acceptance of the good, 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.240 the bad, the light, the dark, like I'm here for 0:21:58.359 --> 0:21:59.879 it and I'm gonna bring I'm gonna love it with 0:21:59.920 --> 0:22:03.200 a smile, I'm gonna everything. Everything is here. And I 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:07.040 felt like that moment was so important for me to 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.639 shave my head because it was almost like I'm letting 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.200 go of my path who I was, you know what 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.600 I mean, Like I'm letting go of the things that 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.520 I beat myself up about. I'm letting go of my anxieties, 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.360 I'm letting go of my fears and when that, when 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.520 those locks hit the floor, it was like, oh honey, 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.000 I'm a different person today. So in that regard, I 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:35.560 feel like my intentions were way purer this time, and 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.240 I can really feel that now and even with the 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.720 regrowth of it coming back. Just like you were saying, 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:45.080 there's a memory that comes along with tapping into it, 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.640 and I feel every day and you have to pay attention. 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:50.760 You can't just be like the memory is coming. No, 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:53.359 you have to pay attention, you know what I mean. 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:55.920 Like it's a it's an internal look and every day 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.800 checking in and that picture is just getting painted and 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.600 I'm so excited to bring it into like myself and 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:05.720 into action. Yeah. I just remember the feeling that I 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.760 had when you started growing your dreads. It was just 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.119 a feeling of the acceptance of yourself and I was 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.159 just so I was like, she finally gets it. She 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:20.560 finally is loving herself fully and understanding and believing that 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.919 she's beautiful as she is. But this is even another 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.320 step of that, because because when I had when I 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.200 started growing my dreads, it actually happened by accident, and 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.800 I was afraid because I was like, oh my god, 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:36.879 Like I went to my mom was accident. It was 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:42.000