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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we explore some of the big money issues and

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Speaker 1: the world of sports. Michael Barr, I'm Scarlett Film and

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Speaker 1: I'm Damian sass Hour. And if you want to talk

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Speaker 1: to four sleep deprived people, because we were all up

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Speaker 1: with the Super Bowl, one person was lucky enough to

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Speaker 1: be in Arizona four Super Bowl fifty seven. Anna Saintsbury, CEO,

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Speaker 1: chairwoman and co founder of geo Comply. Anna, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Well, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to ask the obvious question, what is geogen blant? So

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Speaker 1: do you Comply set out to ensure that the US

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Speaker 1: sports setting and gaming market could open up? There is

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Speaker 1: a federal legislation out there that prohibits that across state lines,

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Speaker 1: and so we built our technology to address that exact problem. So,

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Speaker 1: twelve years ago we set out to have pinpoint accurate

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Speaker 1: geolocation software that can identify anyone that is manipulating their

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Speaker 1: location data so that operators and sports books can know

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Speaker 1: exactly where their players are. And now we helped operators

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Speaker 1: also detect and identify fraud and stolen identities, money laundering,

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Speaker 1: these types of initiatives through really knowing who's on the

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Speaker 1: other end of that device. So what can you share

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Speaker 1: with us about what GEO Comply has learned about the

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Speaker 1: shape of sports betting on Super Bowl Sunday. Well, it

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Speaker 1: was a huge game. We saw a increase from last year.

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Speaker 1: So we located a hundred millions different transactions across the

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Speaker 1: twenty three states in District of Columbia that offer legal

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Speaker 1: online sport setting today. Wow. So I mean, let's just

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Speaker 1: take it a step back here. Last week, Scarlett and

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Speaker 1: I were talking about this the a G A of

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Speaker 1: what you're a board member, I believe, UM said, I

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Speaker 1: record sixteen one six billion dollars we're planning to be

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Speaker 1: wagered on the Super Bowl. That's fifty over fifty million

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Speaker 1: American adults in increase of sixty year every year. Did

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Speaker 1: we come close to that? Did we scratch the service?

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Speaker 1: Did we see almost see? I mean that's sixteen billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's crazy, that's crazes, UM. So what

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Speaker 1: I can tell you is that we saw seven points

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Speaker 1: for million accounts active over the Super Bowl weekends. What

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Speaker 1: data we don't have the data on how much was wagered.

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Speaker 1: You just know how many users and devices are interacting online.

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Speaker 1: So I think the numbers are incredibly high. And if

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Speaker 1: we look at the legal sports setting industry as a whole,

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Speaker 1: it has so far generated more than two points four

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Speaker 1: seven billion and tax revenues since it was legalized, and

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Speaker 1: may have to thousand and eighteen. And so I think

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Speaker 1: we can all say that the industry is a very

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Speaker 1: large success for the US regulated markets. And Ana, how

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Speaker 1: did the state of New York? Do you this time?

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Speaker 1: New York? Well, it's kind of tricky for them to

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Speaker 1: outdo the numbers from last year. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you remember, but essentially New York came online right before

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl last year, and so transactions we're down.

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Speaker 1: We saw thirteen point nine million transactions in the state

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Speaker 1: of New York. So it's still the number one setting market, um,

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Speaker 1: but transactions were down from two thousand and twenty two.

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Speaker 1: I think it's very hard for them to outdo the

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Speaker 1: numbers that we saw. I'm sure many of you might

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Speaker 1: be aware of the bonuses that were being offered in

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Speaker 1: the market. Heavily ramped up their latch. You know what

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Speaker 1: was funny was that Rob Bronkowski Uh, and this was

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Speaker 1: for fan duel. If he makes this can't kick you know,

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Speaker 1: you know the people were going to share all this

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Speaker 1: money and that well he misses the kick and but

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Speaker 1: you know at the end they pulled a surprise. But

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Speaker 1: don't worry, everybody wins. And I mean it was great marketing,

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Speaker 1: which I think a lot of people called on to

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Speaker 1: uh and I think Scarlett was talking about this earlier.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of surprising that we didn't see more

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Speaker 1: sports betting app commercials during the Super Bowl. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously I'm not I'm not in those marketing marketing rooms,

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Speaker 1: but I do know from being a board member of

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Speaker 1: the A g A, we do talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: what is needed in the market to build an increase

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Speaker 1: responsibility across the market. And I think for New York alone,

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Speaker 1: they've already raised seven million attacks in this first year,

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Speaker 1: which goes into programs to prevent problem gambling and education

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Speaker 1: throughout the state. And so the industry is working very

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Speaker 1: hard to make sure that it has a measured approach

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Speaker 1: in terms of both of course wanting to see growth

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Speaker 1: across the industry and more states legalizing and offering benefit

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Speaker 1: to the state with tax revenue and increased protections for

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Speaker 1: consumers UM, and so that is definitely being factored into

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Speaker 1: some of the advertising decisions. So Karen Geo GEO comply

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Speaker 1: is offering solutions to flag fraudulent activity to UM make

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Speaker 1: sure that you're on top of betting fraud and cataloging it,

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Speaker 1: itemizing it. Give us a sense of what betting fraud

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Speaker 1: typically looks like during a sports season and how that

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Speaker 1: changes for a big event like the Super Bowl. Well, UM,

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Speaker 1: this year so far we saw a hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: thousand fraud ative and what that typically is are people

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Speaker 1: that have stolen identities or credit cards and the industry

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Speaker 1: fighting that and being able to have a good mitigation

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Speaker 1: strategy because we're collecting and identifying who users are to

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Speaker 1: a high degree of accuracy. Right, So, if you set

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Speaker 1: up an account, you're putting your first name, last name, data,

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Speaker 1: birth address, social security number, and we're identifying exactly where

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Speaker 1: you are two high degree of accuracy, right within meters

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Speaker 1: of your location, and if it's in states where it's

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Speaker 1: indoor only, it's within centimeters and feet of your location.

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Speaker 1: And so UM we have that ability to help the

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Speaker 1: industry protect themselves against fraud, but also protect other consumers

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Speaker 1: from collusion and other activities that aren't creating a great

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Speaker 1: marketplace for consumers. So it's one of the biggest differences

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Speaker 1: that consumers can see from a regulated market to one

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Speaker 1: that isn't regulated, that doesn't have these protections. Does that

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Speaker 1: change when you go to a big event like the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl or any championship game. Really, well, we kind

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Speaker 1: of we monitor and identify fraud and it's generally a

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Speaker 1: transactions game, and so when we see large events that

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Speaker 1: attract users or there's bonuses that an advertising marketing around

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Speaker 1: any large event, it of course attracts fraudsters. And so

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Speaker 1: that is one of the biggest concerns within the industry

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Speaker 1: and how we partner with our customers is that if

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Speaker 1: there are bonuses or large marketing campaigns out there, it's

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Speaker 1: going to increase transactions, it's going to increase sign ups,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to increase the amount of people that

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Speaker 1: are going to take their chances and see if they

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Speaker 1: can get away with something the fairious that isn't great

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Speaker 1: for the industry, and so we do see an increase

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Speaker 1: in any of these events, but nothing that we aren't

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Speaker 1: expecting and that the industry can't handle well. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I know your your core. You know your mission is

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Speaker 1: to detect fraud and to prevent it and spoofing attacks

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Speaker 1: and the like it. You know, your data is so powerful, right.

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Speaker 1: And I recall you guys having put out a piece

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Speaker 1: of research earlier in the end in the football season

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Speaker 1: where you are looking at the number of bets being

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Speaker 1: placed in and around those events like a football game, right,

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Speaker 1: And you were looking at it by stadiums. And I

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Speaker 1: happen to remember at the time, I think it was

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Speaker 1: a week two, Lincoln Field stood out like head and

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Speaker 1: shoulders above the meadow Lands and other stadiums as having

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Speaker 1: you know, the most bets placed. So I'm wondering if

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Speaker 1: you could expand on that, if you've got any new

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Speaker 1: data throughout the course of the season. I mean, is

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Speaker 1: it is Lincoln Fields? Is Philadelphia still home to the

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Speaker 1: uh biggest collection of gambling degenerates? I didn't say that now,

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Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, but I'm curious, you know what, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what else? What else have you found? Just just rob

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Speaker 1: Salt and the wound. Well, I think that it's it's

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Speaker 1: interesting we've been diving in more into like what is

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Speaker 1: s fan engagement? Why are some arenas more engaging to

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Speaker 1: fans than others, because sometimes it doesn't naturally correlate to

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Speaker 1: the population. Right, A lot of these stadiums are sixty three,

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Speaker 1: sixty four, sixty five thousand, and then we calculate how

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Speaker 1: many people are placing bets and how many unique devices

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Speaker 1: were seeing place in bets within these stadiums. And one

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Speaker 1: thing that was interesting is that State Farm Stadium in Arizona,

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Speaker 1: where the Super Bowl was held, was the second most

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Speaker 1: interactive with sports vedders that we were seeing, and we

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Speaker 1: again saw a hundred thousand transactions within the stadium, and

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Speaker 1: I think that that speaks a lot to I mean,

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Speaker 1: what the fan engagement is, how much advertising there is

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Speaker 1: around the stadium, but also probably a lot about what

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Speaker 1: the fans are like and the demographics of those fans.

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Speaker 1: Can I clap my hands, stop my feet and brag

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Speaker 1: about you for a second and yelling Hercules, Hercules, because

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Speaker 1: you already member of chief. It's a private network built

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Speaker 1: to drive more women into positions of power and keep

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Speaker 1: them there. You've been there for about a year now,

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that experience and what have

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Speaker 1: you learned about that. One of the big initiatives that

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Speaker 1: that I have UM working as a woman in tech

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Speaker 1: is to make sure that we can push the boundaries

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Speaker 1: on what we see as possible for a technology company.

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Speaker 1: And so my ultimate goal at GEO Comply is to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we have full diversity across all offices

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Speaker 1: and across all levels of seniority throughout the organization. So

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Speaker 1: we really have a no excuses policy. If you work

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Speaker 1: in DevOps where only one in a hundred thousand students

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Speaker 1: or graduates are a woman or a minority group, we

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Speaker 1: then say, okay, you need to go into high schools

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Speaker 1: and convince more people, more diverse people to go to

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Speaker 1: school and become DevOps engineers and specialists. And so really

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Speaker 1: my signing up for for chief and leaning into a

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Speaker 1: women in tech initiatives is to make sure that I

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Speaker 1: hold myself accountable to that. And I think that because

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Speaker 1: there aren't a huge amount of examples of companies that

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Speaker 1: have really achieved full diversity at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: especially in high growth UM, I do and learn and

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Speaker 1: network where I can to make sure that we can

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Speaker 1: master that well. I it's amazing to me how the game,

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Speaker 1: Like you mentioned, the gambling landscape has changed. Back in

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Speaker 1: the day, I used to contact the bookie or I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I know somebody who used to contact the bookie. Did

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Speaker 1: you know they just simply bet the game and then

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Speaker 1: you get the spread. Yeah, my friend and I said, listen,

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Speaker 1: I'll bet you a shiny new penny on this game,

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Speaker 1: and then you have the spread, and that was pretty

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Speaker 1: much it. Now you got prop bets and in gamett

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Speaker 1: intra game, that's that is huge because that's like the

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Speaker 1: stock market going in it. Yeah. I think one thing

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Speaker 1: that's great about the legalized market is that we're seeing

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Speaker 1: amazing technologies come together that can both satisfy what a

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Speaker 1: sports better wants from a gaming experience and from a

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Speaker 1: betting experience, but can also achieve that with a high

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Speaker 1: level of integrity and also paying tax. Because I'm sure

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Speaker 1: at the time when you had to or your friend

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Speaker 1: was calling this person, that it was a lack of

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Speaker 1: options that that pushed you to, you know, take place

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Speaker 1: a bet with someone that that was living down the street,

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Speaker 1: Versus now the market is so open, there's so many

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Speaker 1: different options, and I think that that ultimately is a

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Speaker 1: huge benefit to consumers, especially if we can deliver that

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Speaker 1: with consumer protections and in a way that doesn't make

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Speaker 1: the general public feel as though sports betting is taking

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Speaker 1: over their device and their TVs, which I think we've

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Speaker 1: as an industry struck a really great balance so far.

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Speaker 1: And the last question I have for you, I mean,

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Speaker 1: super Bowl just taking place. You know what comes next,

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Speaker 1: The n C Double A. March Madness comes next, and

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Speaker 1: that's historically been you know, the second biggest kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, event that you can bet on here in

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Speaker 1: the US. But you know, take me back to December

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Speaker 1: during the World Cup, and from what I'm hearing now,

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Speaker 1: the World Cup was the second biggest event of two

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk to to me. Champions

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Speaker 1: League is coming up now, you know, us betting on football,

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Speaker 1: you know soccer. I guess if you want to call

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Speaker 1: it that, um, you know, talk to us about that.

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Speaker 1: What have what have you learned there? What is um?

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Speaker 1: You know? What is GEO Comply seeing on that side?

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Speaker 1: Uh So, A funny story. When I first started Geo

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Speaker 1: Comply with living in Las Vegas, and as a Canadian,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't so familiar with March madness. And I went

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Speaker 1: to the strip one day and it was a zoo um,

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Speaker 1: and I quickly quickly learned, um, what was happening. And

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Speaker 1: so it is a tremendous event for us, right. You know,

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Speaker 1: on the heels of Super Bowl, we make sure that

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Speaker 1: that our t the are up in and prepared for

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Speaker 1: the increase that's that we see over the course of

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Speaker 1: March Madness. Um. But you're right. I mean, the amount

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Speaker 1: of sporting events that that are occurring today are engaging

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Speaker 1: to a lot of fans. However, what I can say

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Speaker 1: with the US market at the moment, NFL is is

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Speaker 1: definitely the leader in terms of fan engagements for sports books.

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Speaker 1: But another stat that I had heard last week from

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Speaker 1: my team is that wagering within baseball games is actually

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Speaker 1: one of the highest integrated in terms of fan engagement

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Speaker 1: within a stadium. And so I thought that that was interesting. Yeah. Time, well,

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Speaker 1: you've got you've got a beer in one hand, a

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Speaker 1: hot dog and the other I mean to get your

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Speaker 1: phone out in place to bed. I mean, that seems

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Speaker 1: quite complicated, um, but clearly the motivation is there. And

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Speaker 1: so I thought that was that was an interesting stat

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Speaker 1: And before we let go I just have one more question.

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Speaker 1: If you have a friend or family member who does

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Speaker 1: any kind of sports betting, what would you advise them?

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Speaker 1: What's the safest way to go about it and not

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Speaker 1: be uh in a position where you might be vulnerable

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Speaker 1: to spoofing or any kind of fraud. Sure, I mean

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Speaker 1: the thing that I would always say, um, to anyone

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Speaker 1: that I know that that is betting on sports or gambling,

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Speaker 1: is to make sure that they set a budget for themselves.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's an it's an entertainment budget. Um, it

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Speaker 1: isn't a career. Uh. And so to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you're playing responsibly. The next thing I would look at

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Speaker 1: is find out what state you're in and make sure

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Speaker 1: the operator that you're betting with is licensed within that state,

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Speaker 1: and so that you are going to have those protections

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Speaker 1: that they are going to be identifying who you are

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Speaker 1: prior to logging in, so you can make sure no

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Speaker 1: one's gonna take over your account. Make sure that they

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Speaker 1: have proper payment methods in place so that you know

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Speaker 1: your your funds are safe and you're going to get

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Speaker 1: paid out. So those the main things that I would

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Speaker 1: look at, I know, and I will be just miss

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Speaker 1: if I don't bring this up. You guys mentioned that

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Speaker 1: the next big betting event, big sporting event is March Madness. Well,

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Speaker 1: something is gonna happen on Sunday, Sunday at this big

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Speaker 1: two and a half mile race track. That's the super

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Speaker 1: Bowl of NASCAR that I know I'm gonna be betting on.

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Speaker 1: It's the Daytona and there's a lot of action on

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Speaker 1: if you want to call him niche sports or whatever

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Speaker 1: you want anna, but I know I'll be there, my son,

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Speaker 1: and God bless him. I raised him. Well. He sent

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Speaker 1: out this meme on Facebook, uh, and it was of

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Speaker 1: the late great Dale Earnhart and he's in pit lane

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Speaker 1: and it says super Bowl. Well son, that just means

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Speaker 1: it's one week till the Daytona five. And I loved it. Man,

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Speaker 1: It's like, that's my boy before we lent to go.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about Yeah, yeah, I love it.

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Speaker 1: Those niche sports and I hate to use the term

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Speaker 1: like that, but we've seen a rise in that activity

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Speaker 1: as well. Um yeah, I mean across the gaming industry,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing any type of innovation in terms of engagement

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Speaker 1: of of what people can condet on and so you know,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing it across the space. One thing that is

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Speaker 1: different for us, and especially with an event like Daytona,

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Speaker 1: but I would be interested for us to pull the

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Speaker 1: stats and see how many people that are are present

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Speaker 1: at Daytona are actually interacting as the races are on.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would be the great next weekend, next Monday. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my wife bless her that she wanted to invite some

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Speaker 1: friends over to a company for the five hundred and

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Speaker 1: that's my super Bowl is like, but that's the day

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Speaker 1: tone of five hundred. Well, yeah, let's just have a

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Speaker 1: few friends. But that's the Daytona five hundred. Well what's

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Speaker 1: wrong with having some friends, But that's the Daytona five No,

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Speaker 1: I was, I was not. But Anna Saintsbury, CEO, chairwoman

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Speaker 1: and co founder of GEO comply kicking tushy and taking

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Speaker 1: names in the business world. Thank you so much, Anna

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Speaker 1: for talking with us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. This has been the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: Sports podcast when we explore some of the big money

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Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. You

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Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at Big Car Sports and

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Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Scarlett Brand I'm on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: hey you know where. Also you can get these shows

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Speaker 1: and when you can get them Every Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday.

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Speaker 1: Get your shows wherever you download your podcast