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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan

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Speaker 1: Never told you protection of iHeartRadio. Annie.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about boy bands and girl bands? Are

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Speaker 2: you ready for this?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I hope so I think you will be ready. But

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Speaker 2: as a precursor, we talked about boy bands in the

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Speaker 2: US and what was your favorite boy band?

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess it was Backstreet Boys. I didn't really

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Speaker 1: I didn't get as caught up in all of that.

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Speaker 2: You were a little younger for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the most of the music I listened

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Speaker 1: to at a young age, like the first CD I

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Speaker 1: bought this, Jimmy World, Green Day and the Phantom Menace soundcheck.

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Speaker 1: Like if that gives you any.

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Speaker 2: So you were cool. You were one of the cool kids.

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Speaker 2: I was not cool.

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Speaker 1: No, but I think it like the you know, Ancinc

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Speaker 1: Versus Backstreet Boys, right debate? I was on the Backstreet

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Speaker 1: Boys side.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you have been with my older sister, which

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Speaker 2: is really funny because typically the older generation goes with

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Speaker 2: the older people who got into the boy band would

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Speaker 2: probably say Backstreet Boys. And I do mean like, my

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Speaker 2: sister was in the era of new kids on the block,

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Speaker 2: and I was too and I really did like them,

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Speaker 2: but I was super young for that. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: was an n Sync fan. I was in high school

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Speaker 2: when Enzync came out, like right before I think it

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Speaker 2: was right as I was graduating. But I really enjoyed

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Speaker 2: that music more so than Backstreet Boys. I am team

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Speaker 2: in Sync, I will say that for myself, but I

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Speaker 2: really enjoy a good like pop band. Because one of

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Speaker 2: the first CDs outside of No Doubt for me was

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Speaker 2: Spice Girls and I back then, of course I was

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Speaker 2: embarrassed because I really wanted to read the person besas Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I definitely only listened to Green Day and Bush and

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Speaker 2: all that, and of course I loved No Doubt, but

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Speaker 2: like saying Spice Girls was like, oh, keep that under wraps.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna keep that under wraps. But now we all

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Speaker 2: know they are a delight and we still we celebrate

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Speaker 2: them today as you should. I feel like the gen

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Speaker 2: z ers understand and have kind of come back to

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Speaker 2: love them as they should. So I'm a fan. I'm

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Speaker 2: a fan, so of course, being that when I've been

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Speaker 2: listening to K pop recently, I know everybody knows my

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Speaker 2: new obsessions I have, Like, yeah, I enjoy this Okay,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about this. And because I've been wanting to

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Speaker 2: talk about this and I've been geeking out about it,

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Speaker 2: We're going to do this topic and I'm forcing you

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Speaker 2: into this, and it's long and it is somewhat dark

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Speaker 2: of a subject. So let's go ahead and put a

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Speaker 2: content warning. Y'all. We are going to talk about eating disorders, abuse,

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Speaker 2: and suicide in this conversation. If you know much about

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Speaker 2: K pop, I have a feeling you know about that

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Speaker 2: as well, so we can't ignore that. I sit you

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Speaker 2: some homework. You did it down because this has been

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Speaker 2: in the making for a while, but it's a huge

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Speaker 2: outline that be a huge one. So what do you

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Speaker 2: know about K pop?

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Speaker 1: I know that people love it, uh and it has

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Speaker 1: a lot of fans. Most of what I know is

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Speaker 1: through you and our shared friend Marissa, who had I

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Speaker 1: told you a lot of the videos you sent me

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Speaker 1: she had shown me before. I actually think we were

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Speaker 1: together when that happened. I feel like vaguely we were.

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Speaker 1: Oh she didn't watch the videos videos?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think the majority of the videos that

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Speaker 2: we watched were BTS because she, yeah, and her mom

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Speaker 2: are BTS fans. Hey, Marissa, because there was another K

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Speaker 2: pop group who was made up of all women who

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Speaker 2: actually are like kind of queer icons. I love them,

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Speaker 2: called Mama Moo. They were here and there was an

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Speaker 2: opportunity for someone to go and I don't go to

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Speaker 2: shows because I'm like, I'm too old, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to stand up. I don't I can't deal with this.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with traffic. I sent a

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Speaker 2: Marissa a message and she was like, I don't know

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Speaker 2: who that is. So I think she's she kind of

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Speaker 2: leans into the BTS world, which is perfectly understandable because

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Speaker 2: they are kind of what you think of when you

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Speaker 2: think of K pop now, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: a little bit about them. But she she knows, she knows,

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Speaker 2: and her mom apparently knows a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah to a concert. I love that, La Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love that.

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Speaker 2: I love all about that. So we are That's what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about today is K pop, and we are

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Speaker 2: talking about how it's influencing internationally, and because the majority

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Speaker 2: of fans are women, when we're talking about the impact

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Speaker 2: they have and the implications, we are talking about it

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Speaker 2: in the perspective of influencing more women and girls than

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Speaker 2: anything else. So even though you may be like, why

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Speaker 2: is this about feminism, this is why. And when you

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Speaker 2: hear about the topics, especially in the dark topics, it's

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Speaker 2: something to remember. So we're gonna go with the history

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Speaker 2: and definitions because that's what we do so and we

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Speaker 2: have a lot of them. I did cut them down

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Speaker 2: because I'm like, this is unnecessary. This is unnecessary because

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Speaker 2: I don't know why. I just love the unfacts of

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Speaker 2: it all, I guess. But the history of kpop idols

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Speaker 2: is much older and more complicated than I had thought.

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Speaker 2: So we were going to take a look at the

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Speaker 2: background of K pop and the world around it before

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Speaker 2: we do anything else. And I think before we start,

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Speaker 2: we need a quick overview of the definitions related to

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Speaker 2: K pop. Keep this in mind as we go through

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Speaker 2: the ins and outs of kpop because we're probably gonna

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Speaker 2: be referencing it or talking about it, and it's international

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Speaker 2: growth and popularity, so worse to know. And these are

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Speaker 2: the definitions we're giving you are exactly off of these pages.

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Speaker 2: So we're giving you the reference now from Hello to

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Speaker 2: how you dot com and StyleCaster dot com. So they're

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Speaker 2: direct definitions. So pretend like we put quotes in all

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Speaker 2: of these okay so starting simply with k pop, which

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Speaker 2: this one came out of the Merriam Webster is popular

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Speaker 2: music originating in South Korea and encompassing a variety of

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Speaker 2: styles aka Korean pop music.

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Speaker 1: Paul you the hunkle or Korean language term for the

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Speaker 1: Korean wave, literally meaning the flow of Korea. This term

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Speaker 1: refers to the increase in worldwide popularity of South Korean

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Speaker 1: media since the end of the twentieth century. Idle a

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Speaker 1: word used for K pop stars. Idols can be soloists

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Speaker 1: or members of a group, but the word is often

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Speaker 1: used to a K pop artist who has debuted and

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Speaker 1: is no longer a trainee and an entertainment agency trainee.

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Speaker 1: Before K pop artists are idols, and more on that later,

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Speaker 1: they're trainees. Trainees are students at K pop entertainment companies

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Speaker 1: who have either auditioned or been scouted, who spend several

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Speaker 1: years training in dancing and singing before they debut as

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Speaker 1: a soloist or as part of a group. Along with

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Speaker 1: singing and dancing, many trainee programs also include lessons in

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Speaker 1: languages such as Korean. If the trainee is an already

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Speaker 1: fluent English and Japanese.

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Speaker 2: Right, So, the word debut is often used in K

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Speaker 2: pop to refer to a trainee who has transitioned to

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Speaker 2: an idol by releasing their first official single, either as

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Speaker 2: a solo or in a group, or performing in public

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Speaker 2: for the first time. Then there's the Big Three. The

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Speaker 2: Big Three refers to the three big entertainment companies that

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Speaker 2: have launched the most successful acts and believed have majorly

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Speaker 2: influenced K pop, which are SM Entertainment, which has groups

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Speaker 2: like Girls Generation, Super Junior, Shine, JYP Entertainment, which has

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Speaker 2: twice Wonder Girls and miss A and Stray Kids more recently,

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Speaker 2: and then YG Entertainment and a side note, you might

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Speaker 2: be wondering why this would be of interest in the

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Speaker 2: K pop industry. These three labels control a lot of

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Speaker 2: the content, the publicity, and even the popularity of individuals

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Speaker 2: and groups, and are almost as famous as some of

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Speaker 2: their groups wow.

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Speaker 1: And within the groups which often have several members BTSs

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Speaker 1: seven groups like Exo have up to twelve members and

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Speaker 1: one group had twenty one members, there are specific roles

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Speaker 1: and titles given to them and in groups sometimes referred

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Speaker 1: to as idle groups, which is a band of two

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Speaker 1: or more performers that perform or record and essentially live together.

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Speaker 1: Each member takes on a persona and a role within

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Speaker 1: the group. Depending on the size, there can be a leader,

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Speaker 1: main lead and sub vocalist, main lead and sub rappers,

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Speaker 1: main and lead dancers, visuals including the face of the

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Speaker 1: group in the center and the mock name.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so with that, let's talk about the fan base

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Speaker 2: and the words we hear in regards to fans or

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Speaker 2: anti fans within the group. There's lovers and haters, and

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Speaker 2: there are specific terms for different groups of people in

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Speaker 2: the K pop world, and we'll start with Fangirls are

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Speaker 2: fanboys which we talked about in our Fangirls episode before,

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Speaker 2: So fangirl or a fanboy. These terms can be used

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Speaker 2: as nouns to describe someone who expresses strong passionate feelings

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Speaker 2: passionate about K pop or K drama, especially in regards

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Speaker 2: to their biases and favorite groups. As a verb of

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Speaker 2: fanboying and fangirling are usually demonstrated uncontrollable physical and emotional

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Speaker 2: freakouts in reaction to scene, hearing, touching, or smelling a

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Speaker 2: bias or favorite group. That is really specific, anti fans,

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Speaker 2: so anti or an anti fan is someone who hates

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Speaker 2: a specific idol or group. Some antis will go out

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Speaker 2: of their way to discredit the idol they hate by

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Speaker 2: creating fake rumors or finding evidence that diminishes an idol's talent,

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Speaker 2: so they put just as much energy as a fan, essentially,

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Speaker 2: but to ruin them. There's also saysungs, which refers to

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Speaker 2: fans who have crossed the line and are closer to stalkers.

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Speaker 2: These are fans who invade idols privacies or make them

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Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable or unsafe in some way.

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Speaker 1: Then there's bias, a fan's absolute favorite actor or idol,

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Speaker 1: whom they will fiercely support and keep track of no

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Speaker 1: matter what content they produce. Fans pick one bias from

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Speaker 1: their favorite group and usually only have one bias at

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Speaker 1: a time. Bias ruiner or a wrecker an actor or

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Speaker 1: idol who is revealed in a new light or newly

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Speaker 1: enters the scene, altogether making a fan question their devotion

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Speaker 1: to their original bias. So there are some of the

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Speaker 1: depth definitions you might need to know as we talk

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Speaker 1: about the K pop industry and the people who love

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Speaker 1: or love to hate it and its effect on international

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Speaker 1: audiences and society.

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Speaker 2: So as we look at the history of K pop,

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Speaker 2: but it might be surprising to know that the idea

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Speaker 2: of Korean popular music and idols have been around for

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Speaker 2: a long time. Some of the earliest ideas can be

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Speaker 2: found in the nineteen thirties with the Jagori Sisters who

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Speaker 2: debuted in nineteen thirty nine and the first idols to

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Speaker 2: go abroad and had performances featured on shows like The

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Speaker 2: Ed Sullivan Show not once but twenty two times. Was

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Speaker 2: again Sisters who laid down the basis of K pop music,

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Speaker 2: and there were several more groups that would come along

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Speaker 2: until the eighties, made up of mostly sister groups. Surprisingly,

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Speaker 2: so in the eighties and nineties we had what you

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Speaker 2: would consider the boy or girl groups we see today

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Speaker 2: with performances that were accompanied by fancy choreography and the

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Speaker 2: nineties incorporating rap into the music.

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Speaker 1: Which brings us to what is known as the first

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Speaker 1: generation of idols and K pop groups. Here's a quote

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Speaker 1: from Lafilm dot Edu about the first generation. Once the

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Speaker 1: K pop stardom recipe was discovered, genre bending music attracted performers,

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Speaker 1: fawless appearances, and intricate choreography. The first generation of K

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Speaker 1: pop stars Ushered in Hot, is considered to be the

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Speaker 1: first true K pop idol group because the group was

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Speaker 1: highly manufactured and made up of trained pop stars. They

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Speaker 1: released the song Candy in nineteen ninety seven and it

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Speaker 1: would become a bubblegum pop hit in Korea and the

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Speaker 1: information according to Wikipedia says the first generation idol groups

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Speaker 1: are usually groups of approximately five people, each of whom

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Speaker 1: divided their roles into lead vocal, sub vocal, dancer, and

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Speaker 1: rapper While singing on stage. Their synchronous choreography, known as

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Speaker 1: group dance, was more sophisticated compared to previous dance music,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time included point choreography that teenagers

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Speaker 1: could easily imitate. Musical performances were done only for two

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Speaker 1: or three songs in the album, the title song and

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Speaker 1: follow up song, and these songs were produced with music

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Speaker 1: videos that showed each member's characteristics. After several months of performing,

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Speaker 1: the singers took a break and resumed their career with

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Speaker 1: their next album. This system became the basis for the

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Speaker 1: second and third generation idols. The first generation did have

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Speaker 1: a lot of controversy. The same Wikipedia page rights. First

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Speaker 1: generation idols lost popularity in the two thousands. They often

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Speaker 1: lip synced as they performed, with a focus on choreography,

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Speaker 1: and most of the audience recognized that the songs heavily

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Speaker 1: relied on digital techniques to correct the vocals of the

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Speaker 1: idle singers. As a result, many people began to question

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Speaker 1: the authenticity and competency of the singers. In addition, a

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Speaker 1: series of controversies had erupted in contracts with idle members

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Speaker 1: and adjustment of profits, and the idle training system relied

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Speaker 1: on terrestrial broadcasting while the music market was being converted

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Speaker 1: into digital centers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the second generation is y two K. After

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Speaker 2: the decline of the first generation, the agencies tried some

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Speaker 2: new ways, and many of those new ways were ways

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Speaker 2: to make money quote. The second generation idol groups usually

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Speaker 2: consisted of six or more members, formed a group in

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Speaker 2: a group called a unit, and they ran group and

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Speaker 2: unit activities at the same time. The agencies tried to

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Speaker 2: manage their aisle groups more thoroughly than the first generations.

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Speaker 2: To prevent those problems, they regularly evaluated trainees singing and

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Speaker 2: dancing abilities and ended contracts with trainees if their abilities

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Speaker 2: did not improve or were significantly inferior. They also put

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Speaker 2: on emphasis on personality and dismissed trainers whose behavior was controversial.

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Speaker 1: And though the major entertainment companies had already been established,

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Speaker 1: it was at this point the Big three were highlighted,

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Speaker 1: and they are still the top money makers in the

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Speaker 1: K pop realm. The beginning of you could also be

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Speaker 1: attributed to this generation, largely in part due to the

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Speaker 1: beginning of social media outlets like Twitter and Within the

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Speaker 1: second generation, there were two categories. Here's the quote from

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Speaker 1: creatrip dot com. The second generation idols were divided into

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Speaker 1: two categories. There were the record idols and music idols.

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Speaker 1: Items with a large fandom and low mainstream popularity were

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Speaker 1: labeled as record idols. In idols with a relatively smaller

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Speaker 1: fandom but large mainstream popularity were labeled as music idols.

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Speaker 1: In Korea, male idols were usually record idols and female

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Speaker 1: idols were music idols, regardless of which category they belonged to.

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Speaker 1: It seemed certain that the second generation idols were loved

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Speaker 1: by most Koreans overall.

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Speaker 2: So then we come to what many of the non

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Speaker 2: K pop diehards may know more about, which is the

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Speaker 2: third generation idols, which does include BTS and Black Pink,

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Speaker 2: and for me, Exo, who kicked off the new generation

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Speaker 2: with their hit Growl Again. This is my first true

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Speaker 2: introduction to what I know as K pop now, and

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Speaker 2: though there isn't as much distinction between second and third generation,

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Speaker 2: the massive usage of social media at this point helped

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Speaker 2: the international interest in kpop, with groups being featured through

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Speaker 2: content on YouTube and navor v, which I think is

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Speaker 2: a Korean thing, companies pushed a more personal look at

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Speaker 2: the different groups. Here's a quote from that Wikipedia page

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Speaker 2: we would talked about earlier. The idol groups marketing strategy

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Speaker 2: had become more diverse due to social media, which has

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Speaker 2: led to the emergency of unprocessed, self produced content on

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Speaker 2: sites such as YouTube, Africa TV, and v app rather

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Speaker 2: than through TV programs. Idle members also began to post

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Speaker 2: on social networking services to get closer to their fans.

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Speaker 2: In terms of planning the quote. Localization strategy expanded not

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Speaker 2: only through releasing albums in different countries or performing in

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Speaker 2: different languages, but by including foreign, non Korean members directly

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Speaker 2: into groups. So also of note, we are seeing more

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Speaker 2: groups writing and producing their own music. In this generation

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Speaker 2: so BTS has been credited with producing and writing their

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Speaker 2: own music for a chunk of it, which has been

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Speaker 2: a criticism from the previous generations of kpop.

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Speaker 1: And to add to all of that, entertainment companies capitalized

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Speaker 1: on the love of fans. They started selling merchandise including

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Speaker 1: photo cards, fan events, the usage of competitive reality shows

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Speaker 1: that have you invested before a group is even formed,

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Speaker 1: or if that's what they want you to think anyway.

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Speaker 1: They also understood the importance of the female gaze with

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Speaker 1: groups like Mama Moo and Red Velvet. They have utilized

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Speaker 1: the idea of girl crushes, which they might do through

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Speaker 1: things like attire, like many will wear suits and tuxes.

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Speaker 1: As one girl group said, their idea is quote to

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Speaker 1: be girls seen from a girl's gaze. And as the

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Speaker 1: fourth generation is rolling out, we are seeing more and

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Speaker 1: more follow suit.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, that was actually something that we don't talk

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Speaker 2: about into this, but I will say a lot of

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Speaker 2: the articles talk about how sexuality really has nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with it. Oftentimes you will see if you see

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Speaker 2: a gay man or a gay uh men, they love

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Speaker 2: the women groups as much as cis hetero women do.

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Speaker 2: And then a lot of the gay women or lesbians

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Speaker 2: love the male groups as much as uh cissetero groups do,

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Speaker 2: so it's kind of like it doesn't matter. They just

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Speaker 2: love who they love. It's kind of interesting to see

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Speaker 2: because they do and they don't play the masculine and

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Speaker 2: feminine roles as much in K pop. You'll see that

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Speaker 2: they're a little more for especially when it comes to

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Speaker 2: like male groups, it does seem like they're a little

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Speaker 2: more effeminatee to some Some like they're very pretty. It's

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Speaker 2: und how pretty they are, but so are the women.

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Speaker 2: They're very pretty. So that brings us to the newest generation,

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Speaker 2: the fourth generation. Here's what Nocturnal dot com has to

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Speaker 2: say about the newest generation. Any group who made their

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Speaker 2: debut in twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen was considered to

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Speaker 2: be a part of the current fourth generation. The fourth

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Speaker 2: generation shows kpop at an unprecedented skill that we have

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Speaker 2: never seen before. Groups are debuting and immediately gaining millions

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Speaker 2: of followers on music videos and going on showcase tours

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Speaker 2: around the world. And the article continues within the influx

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Speaker 2: of new groups and the lack of boy bands and

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Speaker 2: girl bands in the West. Since notable acts like one

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Speaker 2: Direction and fifth harmony. K pop has been able to

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Speaker 2: take over and found a new sense of popularity throughout

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Speaker 2: the global pandemic. Something that differentiates K pop from the

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Speaker 2: typical teenage pop group is the amount of time and

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Speaker 2: production that goes into it. Some idol groups like Straight

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Speaker 2: Kids in seventeen are also labeled as self producing because

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Speaker 2: they take part in writing, producing, mixing, choreographing, and doing

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Speaker 2: many other things. These all rounder groups are ensuring that

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Speaker 2: they cement a place for themselves globally and need to

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Speaker 2: be recognized for their hard work and legitimate artistry instead

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Speaker 2: of just a teenage craze. So they're trying to make

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Speaker 2: it more legit as kids, as the kids would say.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so it is interesting to note all of

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Speaker 2: that as well as the fact social media like TikTok

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Speaker 2: has really picked up even more so the popularity of

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Speaker 2: K pop groups because not only do they have dance

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Speaker 2: challenges and like more and more interaction fans are able

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Speaker 2: to produce fan content things like fan cams where they

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Speaker 2: just literally find their bias as we talked about, and

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Speaker 2: then do a collage essentially a montage for these people,

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Speaker 2: but it really they do a great job. I will

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Speaker 2: say they do an amazing job. I will also say

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Speaker 2: I believe in the second generation, fans were called canons

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Speaker 2: because they carried around professional cameras to shows. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they made like they made incredible photographs of their

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Speaker 2: favorite fans. It was interesting, like the it is so

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Speaker 2: professional is absurd, but the fans were the ones that

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Speaker 2: doing it, and they were carrying a lot thousands of

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Speaker 2: dollars camera us to these shows.

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Speaker 1: How times have changed?

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Speaker 2: They how times have changed? Although I have seen people

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Speaker 2: competing with their phones and talking about how they do

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Speaker 2: better of filming. Quite funny. But here's another quote from

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Speaker 2: NPR about the fourth generation. The last generation of K

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Speaker 2: pop stars are no longer bound by borders. They can

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Speaker 2: debut or train outside of South Korea and become just

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Speaker 2: as or even more successful in the West than they

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Speaker 2: are back home. They also continue to expand upon K

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Speaker 2: pop's constant musical experimentation. And actually that was one of

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Speaker 2: the some of the articles that I've seen that they

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Speaker 2: no longer are catering to Korean fans, that it is

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Speaker 2: all about catering to international fans, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: Korean fans feel like this is leaving them out because

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Speaker 2: more and more K pop people are doing songs in English,

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Speaker 2: songs in Japanese, all of these things. So the question

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Speaker 2: is who is this actually for and is the origins changing?

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Speaker 1: Right? Well, if you're thinking, well this sounds fun, how

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Speaker 1: do I become idol? Here's the process according to ninety

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Speaker 1: day Korean dot Com.

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Speaker 2: Which is a great program by the way of learning Korean.

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Speaker 2: Not a sponsor, but I do use them.

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Speaker 1: Not a current sponsor. Not a current sponsor, So you

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Speaker 1: must first audition. Many of the stories we see if

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Speaker 1: K pop idols begin with auditioning for different companies and

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Speaker 1: studios or k pop college. Many companies who feed directly

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Speaker 1: to the major entertainment companies, and there are many different

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Speaker 1: schools and studios with hopeful beginners, some auditioning at the

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Speaker 1: age of ten. And you don't even need to be

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Speaker 1: a current resident of Korea or even Korean. Look at

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Speaker 1: Lisa from Blackpink, who is from Thailand. Second, all right,

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Speaker 1: if you've passed the audition, you become a trainee. At

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Speaker 1: this point you are trained with a purpose and intensity.

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00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: Not only will you learn to sing and dance, you

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00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: may be taught how to act. You must take different

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00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: language courses, English and Japanese, and it's during this time

404
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: you are under scrutiny not only for your talents, but

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00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: for your looks, and are constantly evaluated physically and based

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Speaker 1: on your talent. Stories of young trainees being weighted twice

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00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 1: a day and being heavily restricted with their food intake,

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Speaker 1: and even getting suggested to have plastic surgery if they

409
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Speaker 1: don't have a specific look. These are stories that we've heard,

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00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 1: and refusing can result in being cut. Interestingly, in Korea,

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00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: mail instructors are not allowed to tell the ladies that

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Speaker 1: they need to lose weight or placed restrictions on them

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00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 1: by law, and plastic surgery is seen as just a

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Speaker 1: regular thing. Here's a quote from Wes. One of the

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Speaker 1: most well known methods of transforming teenagers into pop stars

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00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: in Korea is with plastic surgery. In Korea, there's no

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Speaker 1: stigma attached to having your face changed to better your

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Speaker 1: public image. The first most important thing is their appearance,

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Speaker 1: says Kim Mansuk, a former master trainer with YG who

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Speaker 1: now runs his own training center, sand Factory. If a

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Speaker 1: girl has a bad face and a good body, the

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00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: problem can be fixed with plastic surgery. He says matter

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00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: of factly. Often a hopeful star will get a loan

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Speaker 1: from a label for fifty percent of the costs of

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Speaker 1: the surgery, but she'll have to pay it back.

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Speaker 2: It's also during this time you are most likely placed

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Speaker 2: in a specific position in a group and are then

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Speaker 2: assigned to train and live with this newly formed group,

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Speaker 2: and strict rules are implemented, including dating bands, which may

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00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 2: follow even after a debut and rise in popularity. According

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00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: to that ninety Day Korean article quote, while the South

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00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: Korean idol hopefuls are in training, they are expected to

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Speaker 2: maintain the same polished image once they have debuted as

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00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 2: a part of the idol group. They should hold at

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00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: least basic etiquette and media training, but most importantly stay

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00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: out of trouble, namely dating and drinking scandals. Although luckily

437
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: for idols, the industry is changing to allow a little

438
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: more freedom with dating in some regards just not right

439
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 2: as they debut. There may also be some pressure to

440
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: maintain a certain weight in some companies. There is I

441
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: don't know why they said they may because there is

442
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: point blank. However, as rigorous as a trainee system may seem,

443
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: trainees also get some freedom. It is still totally okay

444
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: to have social media accounts and use them as they wish,

445
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: of course, while keeping up with a positive image. They

446
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 2: could also work in commercials and music videos, modeling gigs,

447
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 2: and sometimes even act in dramas or movies while in training.

448
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: And then for a selected few we get to the debut.

449
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 1: According to Wes, the number is very small. Quote out

450
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: of all the teens who train, it's difficult to say

451
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: who will make it, though it's certain that few will

452
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: move on to the big time pop scene. Kim says

453
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: that of his two hundred students, only about fifteen will

454
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: be signed with one of the three major labels, and

455
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: he says girls have a better chance than boys. Girls

456
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: tend to want to be k pop stars more and

457
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: with a bigger market for girls. He says, of course,

458
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that girls may be more likely

459
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: to make it may have something to do with the

460
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: mandate for a military service required for all Korean men,

461
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: who have to serve for two years between the ages

462
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: of eighteen to thirty five, which was recently changed from

463
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty eight due to the success of BTS,

464
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: and there are currently two members of BTS serving the

465
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: required time. Also, there is no real timeline for a

466
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: trainee to train. Some may train for years and some

467
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: for only a few months. And according to kpoplife dot

468
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: com quote, once a trainee has been deemed ready, they

469
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: are then given the opportunity to debut as part of

470
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: a K pop group. The debut process involves the creation

471
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: of a new group and the selection of members who

472
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: will make up the group. The selection process is highly competitive,

473
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: with only a handful of trainees being selected to debut.

474
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: The newly formed group then begins the process of preparing

475
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: for their debut, which includes recording their first album and

476
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: rehearsing for their first performance.

477
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: Right, so, now that we have the fundamentals of K pop,

478
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: let's talk about the people who love them. And the

479
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: audience is vast and diverse and has had different rates

480
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: of growth all over the world. So we're going to

481
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 2: break it down. The K pop has been around for

482
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: decades now. The international popularity is fairly new, probably a

483
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: couple of decades, but you know, still fairly new. It'scoring

484
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: to where you're from, even in the Asian countries, but

485
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: the popularity has spread vastly. According to reports, the biggest

486
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: fan groups of kpop actually are outside of Korea, with

487
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: China having the highest number of fans. But I know,

488
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: at one point when there was this whole conversation, because

489
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: uh there was the skirmish between China and Korea, the

490
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 2: Chinese government banned capop for a little while, so I

491
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: don't know how that affected anything. But according to Billboard

492
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: dot Com, as of twenty nineteen, the Korean Foundation has

493
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: tracked at least a ninety nine point three million fans

494
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: across the globe who are associated with Korean entertainment related

495
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: fan club and at least seventy two million are based

496
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 2: in Asia. Now, according to a more recent report breakdown,

497
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: the numbers are like this, eighty four point three million

498
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: how you fan in China, sixteen point eight million in Thailand,

499
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: thirteen point three million in Vietnam, thirteen point two in Europe.

500
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: And these numbers is from twenty twenty, with a report

501
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: showing a thirty seven percent increase last year, so most

502
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: likely higher now, So obviously that ninety nine point three

503
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: is low. It is I think I saw around one

504
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million, if not more, probably way more so.

505
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 2: Finding statistics for North America was a bit difficult, but

506
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: according to one report from Korean dot net, when it

507
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: comes to HOLLYU altogether, in twenty twenty two, the US,

508
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: along with Canada and Argentina had the highest increase in popularity,

509
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: with a whopping one hundred two percent increase from fourteen

510
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 2: point six million to twenty eight point nine million fans,

511
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: and a majority of the increase is thanks mostly to

512
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: K pop. According to another survey done on Reddit, many

513
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: of the respondents were from North America and they made

514
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: up fifty two percent of the fandom. Again, Reddit maybe

515
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: more of a US thing, though, I don't know, Yeah,

516
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: so that might be why.

517
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: Well you can see I read It episode for more

518
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: about that, which needs to be updated actually probably, And

519
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: the majority of fans do seem to be women, holding

520
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: it around seventy or more percent, with the average age

521
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: around twenty three to twenty four years old. According to

522
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: the Reddit survey we mentioned, forty percent of the respondents

523
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: were in the age range of twenty five to thirty four,

524
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 1: and not surprisingly, it is those with more disposable incomes

525
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: that make up a large part of the growing industries.

526
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: Conventions like k Coon, which according to their site, is

527
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: quote the world's largest fans celebration of Korean culture and music.

528
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: We launched our flagship Los Angeles event in twenty twelve,

529
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: expanded to New York in twenty fifteen, and have since

530
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: created events in Japan, Thailand, Mexico, Australia, UAE, Saudi Arabia

531
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: and more. Welcoming one point for a million fans span

532
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: thirty three events in twelve regions, and it had around

533
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: nine hundred thousand attendees last year and has brought more

534
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: in person experiences and experiences in general for all of

535
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: these fans, with the average age of the attendee being

536
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: in their mid twenties, and it possibly is because of

537
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: the locations that we just listed, but the attendees are

538
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: predominantly not Korean, and though the age range does keep

539
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: it at at more younger adult side, the fans over

540
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: thirty are committed and at the aforementioned convention there was

541
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: even a panel titled the Secret Lives of K pop

542
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: Fans over thirty. Fan groups who often labeled themselves as

543
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: ajumas sort of translated as missus ma'am or anti are

544
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: their own form of anties. One group from the Philippines

545
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: called themselves the titas of BTS and as bands like BTS,

546
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: who are still a favorite around the world age the

547
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: fans age with them right.

548
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: Of course. The origins of K pop is based in

549
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: South Korea. In the times of no internet and going analog,

550
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: the fans relationship was different. According to one report, at

551
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: the start of the generation of K pop idols, fans

552
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: even had access to home addresses and locations, and everybody

553
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: thought this was normal. It was during this generation that

554
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: color representation for each group became a thing like, you know,

555
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: I think army BTS are purple. So they that began

556
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: in the first generation also chanting names of their favorite idols,

557
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: and deep seated rivalries between fandoms formed uh and during

558
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: this time, idols who are not liked were not only bullied,

559
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: but sent death threats and sometimes unpleasant gifts like dead mice, razors,

560
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: blood and a good deal of that was often sent

561
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: to women who may have been rumored to date another

562
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: male idol, and not surprisingly, this was most isolated to

563
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: the Korean community because it was typically local during the

564
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: first generation, and those who could be considered say songs

565
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: and anti fans have been around for a while as well.

566
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: Their presence have put idols and fans on edge. Stories

567
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: have come out about the intensity of the love or

568
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: hate of both fans and anti fans. Idols have been stalked, threatened,

569
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: and even physically harmed. Different stories like one idol being

570
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: poisoned with super glue in his drink, causing him to

571
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: be hospitalized while at a show and performing. And then

572
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: there's a more recent one of a BTS member being

573
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: sent food delivered food because they found his address and

574
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: him being threatened on social media to the point that

575
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: other members docks the person who threatened him interestingly enough,

576
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: and reasons may vary, such as the dating rumors we

577
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: talked about, as well as just being in a group

578
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: that they may feel as a rivalry to their favorite groups.

579
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: Say songs who love their idols a bit too much

580
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: have also made many of the nervous even threatened. Incidents

581
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 2: of stalking to the point of causing a car chase

582
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: slash car wrecks, to ripping off of clothes to fans

583
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: sending messages in menstrual blood have been brought up to

584
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: point out the level of toxicity that the fandoms can have.

585
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from a Wrappler Dot com article talking

586
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: about the ugly side of fantom Ashshells and Katie, the

587
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: host of Spill Thesoji podcast, have been fans of K

588
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: pop groups since two thousand and six. Throughout there more

589
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: than a decade of following idol groups, they've witnessed several

590
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: instances of celebrities being put into harmful situations because of

591
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: their fans. The list includes calling the idol's personal phone numbers,

592
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: hacking their social media accounts, stalking their idols, group overcrowding

593
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: at airports, and in more extreme instances, camping outside their idols'

594
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: dorms or houses, installing secret cameras, placing recording or tracking

595
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: devices at hotels or in cars, sending disturbing gifts or

596
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: fan letters. A female fan reportedly sent a love note

597
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: written in menstrual blood to Ok Taysion, a member of

598
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: K pop group two PM, and even attempting to kidnap them.

599
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: SNSD's Kim Tajuan was dragged away in the middle of

600
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: a performance by an obsessed fan, Although it should be

601
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 1: noted here that there are more fans who often stand

602
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: to protect their idols. Here's another quote from that Rappler article,

603
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: and it's about how the fans will go to that

604
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: for their faves. Generally, fans would strongly voice out their

605
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: opinions and call out whoever needs to be called out

606
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: across several social media platforms. Ash said they would also

607
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: mass email the company for investigation or legal action against

608
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: the perpetrators. Usually there is a unity against unhealthy behavior,

609
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: but there are instances when the opinion is divided because

610
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: of differences in perspectives. For as active a community as

611
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: celebrity fandoms, issues tend to circulate fast, with every fan

612
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: chiming in with their opinion, But when it comes to

613
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: keeping their idols safe, Rhes said that the majority still

614
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: know when to put their foot down.

615
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: But it isn't just that the fan bases try to

616
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: protect their favorite fans, but they also will do what

617
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: is needed to protect society as a whole. Instances of

618
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: fandoms like the BTS Army, overtaking racists and sexist hashtags

619
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: dominated during heated times, such as the movement for the

620
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter and shutting down of websites that are

621
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 2: seen as oppressive, or even registering for hundreds of thousands

622
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: of tickets to Trump rallies. So it would be empty.

623
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 2: So here's a quote from the Washington Post article about

624
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: the power of K pop fans in American politics, and so.

625
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 2: K pop fans have emerged as empowered, socially conscious, globally minded,

626
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: LGBTQ friendly, and attentive to issues of racism and discrimination

627
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: because in their multi ethnic countries such as the United States,

628
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 2: fans are often ethnic minorities themselves. Social media has accelerated

629
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 2: existing fan dynamics and made them global. Twitter has given

630
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: fans around the world a chance to observe effective online

631
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: campaign tactics, all of which can be applied to causes

632
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: beyond K pop. Now, Digital narratives congregate on Twitter, TikTok,

633
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 2: and Twitch, expanding the arena of K pop fandom. As

634
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: the Black Lives Matter movement generated massive attention after the

635
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody. K pop

636
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: fans on Twitter, acting on their own but inspired by

637
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: the advice groups such as BTS to speak their own truth,

638
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: began changing their screen names to reflect their support of BLM.

639
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: Shared appeals to donate to beilfunds or show up for

640
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: March's appeared back to back with links to K pop

641
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 2: media and photos evincing thirst's desire for the attractive young stars.

642
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: Now that these fans have flexed and the world has

643
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: seen their power, the real question is what campaign and

644
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 2: goals will they choose next.

645
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: But that brings us to the conversation of how different

646
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: fan groups are treated so total transparency, we know that

647
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: racism within K pop culture is very present. Though there

648
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: is a sizeable number of fans from the black community,

649
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: the level of treatment for these fans from the other

650
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: fan members or even from the idols themselves, are not equal.

651
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: Stories of mistreatment and abused by black kpop fans are common.

652
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: In fact, there are stories coming out about black fans

653
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: being docked within the fandoms. A Refinery twenty nine article

654
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: called when Black K pop fans are Terrorized Online? Who

655
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: Listens describes different instances about looking into this about when

656
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: fans have been harassed, threatened, and doxed. They write, K

657
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: pop has long reference to black music, fashion, language, and

658
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: beauty when done with innovation and talent. This quality has

659
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: won many groups black fans. But while the majority of

660
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: K pop musicians and fans do it respectfully, some prefer

661
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: to strip black people from black culture. This disrespectful appropriation

662
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,919
Speaker 1: has contributed to an unjust sense of ownership. Anyone who

663
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: disagrees is overly sensitive and thus is a fair target

664
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: for abuse. Among stand communities, there is an appropriation to

665
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: abuse use pipeline. According to May Santiago, a PhD candidate

666
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: and cultural studies who notes that racist language, online harassment,

667
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: and cyberbulling is all perceived to be an extension of

668
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: how devoted a stand is to the object of their fascination.

669
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: Their chosen media figure is God and they're the disciples.

670
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: If anyone dares question the integrity of such iconography, all

671
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: bets are off, she said. This is particularly hateful when

672
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: a critical user is black or brown. Under this warped logic,

673
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: any criticism comes from a malevolent place. So, even though

674
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: black fans have been instrumental in helping their idols learn

675
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: and evolve when it comes to cultural appropriation, some stands

676
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: consider these learning moments to be insulting, an offense worthy

677
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: of punishment.

678
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: A and that article continues, it says in a study

679
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: conducted by The Fighting Stripes in twenty twenty, a site

680
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 2: founded in twenty twelve to give Korean Americans a platform

681
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: to talk about what they love ninety three point six

682
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 2: percent of the participants reported feeling as though black capepop

683
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: fans tend to receive more backlash for calling out instances

684
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: of cultural appropriation within kpop and were more likely to

685
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: be threatened with doxing. That's consistent with the rest of

686
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: the Internet, where black women are disproportionately vulnerable to online harassment,

687
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: which we've talked about at length, including with Bridget and

688
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: it's not gotten much better. Many black capop fans are

689
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: seeking safe spaces for themselves as many continue to deal

690
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 2: with these types of harassment. In another article from Girls

691
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: United dot Essence dot com, they write, there is no

692
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 2: denying that non black fandom spaces can be racist at times,

693
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 2: with black fans having called out digital racial violence over

694
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: the years. In July twenty twenty one, black fans of

695
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: Inhypen were attacked on social media for saying that the

696
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 2: member he sung allegedly mouthed the N word while listening

697
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: to Sizza's Love Glory. The majority of the abuse that

698
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: took place on Weavers, an app where fans can connect

699
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: with their favorite capop artists. Black engens experienced so much

700
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: stress and racist abuse that a protective account the Black

701
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: Engine Protection Team was formed to monitor and report any

702
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: anti blackness, and there have been allegations of idols being

703
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: racist as well. One idol was accused of purposely ignoring

704
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 2: his black fans, while others have been caught using derogatory

705
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 2: terms as we kind of mentioned above, although some try

706
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: to excuse it as ignorance. I do have opinions about this,

707
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 2: but let's be honest here, a chunk of the idols

708
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 2: have been either born or raised outside of South Korea.

709
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: If not, their producers, managers and execs should be able

710
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: to educate them before they go internationally. I do have

711
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: a lot of that. We do know that there are

712
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 2: two specific terms for I and me and you that

713
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 2: sound close to that word as well, so there's a

714
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: little bit like backlash if you're ignorant of those words.

715
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: So there's a lot to be said about this controversy.

716
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: And yes, I do remember the mouthing the rap not

717
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 2: realizing what they were saying, but again that's just an

718
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: excuse and that needs to be corrected point blank. And

719
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: oftentimes it seems that there is very little repercussions for

720
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: racist incidents. In fact, it seems dating and partying is

721
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: seen as more of a problem by industry standards than

722
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: being racist.

723
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: And this also leads to the problematic use of black culture.

724
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: Just recently, one girl group has been heavily criticized for

725
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: their usage of black hair styles such as box braids

726
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: and almost caricture level outfits that are reminiscent of nineties

727
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: hip hop, even warranting a slapping face emoji from hip

728
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: hop star Anderson Pack, which once again has brought up

729
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: the topic of the constant cultural appropriation from key pop

730
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: groups and idols.

731
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 2: So there are many articles asking the repeated question why

732
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: do they continue to use black culture and styles but

733
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 2: continue to not give credit or respect to the black community. Also,

734
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 2: I would ask who is allowed this again and not

735
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: vetting these things as twenty twenty three, you're aware enough

736
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: to put Black Lives Matter posts out, but aren't not

737
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: aware enough that taking credit or trying to make money

738
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: off of culture without understanding it? I mean, what are

739
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: you doing?

740
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: Accusations from black producers, writers, choreographers and so many others

741
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: of not being compensated or not even being credited has

742
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: been rampant in the industry. In a Guardian article, they

743
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: write about a specific incident sm Entertainment is one of

744
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: South Korea's three largest entertainment companies. It is credited with

745
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 1: producing the first K pop idol group Hot in nineteen

746
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: ninety six, which establishes the SM performance style that the

747
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: brand still employs today, a combination of impressive visuals, dance, rock, rap,

748
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 1: and hip hop that took inspiration from Black American artist

749
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: of the MTV generation. Songwriter and producer Micah Powell attended

750
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: six SM songwriting camps between twenty fifteen and twenty eighteen.

751
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: At one camp, he wrote a song called Devil and

752
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: created a dance move to go with it, which he

753
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: then showed to SM executives. The entire staff lit up,

754
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: Powell says of their reaction. Devil became the lead single

755
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: of SM group Super Junior's twenty fifteen album of the

756
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: same name. When Powell watched the music video for Devil

757
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: for the first time, he was shocked to see that

758
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: his dance move, a hip tap and high clap combination,

759
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: have been used as part of the song's chorus without

760
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: his permission, without credit or compensation. Powell's background vocals on

761
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 1: the track had also been used without payment or credit.

762
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 2: Right and they did the bare minimum and after a

763
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: lot of backlash. Again we talked about the top three,

764
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: this is one of them their billion dollar company. So

765
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 2: the constant usage of black community's content has brought division

766
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 2: in K pop fandom, making the black K pop fans

767
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: feel more isolated. Stans who excuse artists by using the

768
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 2: term appreciation instead of appropriation allows room for continued ignorance

769
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: within the industry. There are fans who have taken action,

770
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: including using blackout tactics and calling for boycotts among some

771
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: groups who continuously abuse the appreciation slash appropriation, but has

772
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: also led to the harassment of those fans as we

773
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, and there have been groups who have taken

774
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: steps to correct these actions. Groups like BTS, who've been

775
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: outright in their usage of black culture and their music,

776
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: has taken steps to undo some of their past mistakes,

777
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 2: as well as groups like p One Harmony who have

778
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: openly acknowledged the role of AAVE in their music. In

779
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 2: the interview in the US, leader Kio addresses the issue openly, saying, quote,

780
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: I believe is a responsibility, and I also feel like

781
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: if you're going to have that big of a platform,

782
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: you need to be able to respect and appreciate all

783
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: cultures without appropriating them. He continues, whenever it comes to

784
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 2: our styling or music or whatever, it's always a sensitive

785
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 2: topic that we always have to think once, three times,

786
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: four times about in every step of the way visually

787
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: or musically or the language itself. That while other ONEH

788
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: members not in agreement, obviously there's aave and a whole

789
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 2: bunch of other cultural stuff that is very sensitive and

790
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 2: so we need to respect that. And I feel like

791
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: it's a responsibility too. So I feel like it's something

792
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: that we are always thinking about and taking action about.

793
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: And hopefully more groups, more and more groups will start

794
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 2: putting an effort in learning the difference of appropriation and appreciation.

795
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 2: But again, currently we're not seeing in it across the board.

796
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and while we look at the not so good

797
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: side of kpop, we have to talk about other controversies

798
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: within the industry, including the many scandals that have affected

799
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: the groups and have some people even saying to boycott

800
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 1: the industry altogether. So we've talked about the unrealistic beauty

801
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: standards we often see in South Korea, whether it's weight,

802
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 1: skin color, or overall appearance, and for the K pop stars,

803
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: it's even worse stories of trainees being told to only

804
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: eat rice, or their diets being so restrictive that other

805
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: members sneak food in for them. It's a big concern.

806
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: Many of the fan sites not only give details like

807
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: birth dates and signs, but they will give height and

808
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: weight for many of them. And though everybody is different,

809
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: it is disheartening to see a young woman who may

810
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: be five foot seven weighing ninety five pounds and being

811
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: called chubby are not meeting the standard of the music industry.

812
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: In a research paper about the effects of K pop

813
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: idols on Korean beauty standards, they say this about the

814
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: dieting culture. Another way K beauty standards can be harmful

815
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: is they can lead to extreme dieting, which leads to

816
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: other outcomes like poor health, depression, and eating disorders. Since

817
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: the slim body is a part of the standard, idols

818
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: may be forced to a diet that causes them to

819
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 1: lose an unhealthy amount of weight in a short period

820
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: of time, which is usually before a new song or

821
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: album is released. In an Insider interview with the kpop

822
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: group Great Guys, member j Rung says that they quote

823
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: don't have much time for eating and aren't free to

824
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: eat what they want.

825
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: And with this type of damaging influence, it has made

826
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 2: an impact in Korean culture. Here's a quote from another

827
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 2: article written for the waveclinic dot com. For several years,

828
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: media outlets have reported that many young artists have left

829
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 2: behind the kpop world in order to focus on eating

830
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: disorder treatment. Jenny of the popular eight member girl band

831
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: Oh My Girl have bravely discussed her year long treatment

832
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 2: for an eating disorder, and they continue. The extreme diet

833
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 2: and beauty ideals that have some cultural underpintings are without

834
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 2: a doubt harmful to both the K pop stars and

835
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: also to the tween and teen girls who eagerly followed them.

836
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: Restricting and extreme dieting, cosmetic surgery, and an obsession with

837
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 2: the perfect look have been synonymous with the South Korean

838
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: music industry. Here are some disturbing statistics from South Korea.

839
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: According to the Korea Jungang Daily, the number of teens

840
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: suffering from eating disorders in recent years has shot up significantly.

841
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: According to the Health Insurance Review and Assessment Service earlier

842
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 2: this month, the number of patients that have visited a

843
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: hospital due to anorexia and nervosa increased by thirty percent

844
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 2: over five years, from six hundred and sixty one people

845
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen to twenty two hundred and one people

846
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty one, one six

847
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: hundred and forty eight or seventy five percent were women,

848
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 2: with teenagers taking up the majority with twenty five percent

849
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: or four hundred and eighteen for the past five years,

850
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 2: excluding seniors in their seventies and above. Female teenagers or

851
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: the largest group that were treated for anorexia and their

852
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: story starts with a young girl wanting to be like

853
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 2: an idol, so she starts herself to achieve the same look.

854
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 2: And of course, it is important to acknowledge that the

855
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: overall beauty standards, not only in South Korea, but in

856
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 2: countries like the US as well, have just as much

857
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 2: influence on the cap popter culture as does K pop

858
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 2: culture does on the overall beauty standards, so it's vice versa.

859
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 2: It affects both of us, both of them and the fans.

860
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: When fans are anti, fans feel like they're able to

861
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: comment on what they deem as attractive or unattractive and

862
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: use this as a way to harass and bully and idol.

863
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: They reinforce the almost impossible standard as if it should

864
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 2: be the norm.

865
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: And these types of bullying have been lethal. Different stars

866
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: and idols have died by suicide after being relentlessly harassed

867
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: and bullied, as well as being depressed and unhappy due

868
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: to their careers, and unfortunately, the level of standards that

869
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: often push idols too far is correlated with the unreal expectations.

870
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: In another article specifically talking about mental health and kpop

871
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 1: from mindlessmag dot com, they write Sully from FX passes

872
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: away at age twenty five. She had been suffering from

873
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: panic disorder and social phobia, so it speculated that it

874
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: was through suicide, mainly because she was one idol who

875
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: was going against the norm, which led to cyber bullying.

876
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: She was one to openly discuss mental health, dating bands,

877
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: social issues and such. To add to that, apparently her

878
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: attire was not appropriate and this all built up over

879
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: the years and she could not take it anymore. It

880
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: is said that South Korea holds the highest rate in suicide,

881
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: whether attempted or not, and this mainly occurs due to

882
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: the overly high and even unachievable standards the environment that

883
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: the Koreans live in. Government figures show that suicide is

884
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 1: amongst the top cause of death for those under forty

885
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: in age range where life demands a lot for those

886
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: living there.

887
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 2: Right, the k pop and Korean celebrity industry have had

888
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 2: to acknowledge the level of need to address the issues

889
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: that have been stigmatized for so long. In the semp

890
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 2: dot Com report, they write the Korea Creative Content Agency,

891
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 2: which supports pop culture artists, have reported that the number

892
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: receiving counseling rose from one hundred and forty six in

893
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: twenty twenty to six hundred and sixty one in twenty

894
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: twenty two. That figure relates just to those who admitted

895
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: to having counseling. Libung Chul, director of medical insurance policy

896
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: at the Korean Neuropsychiatric Association, said pop idols were often

897
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: isolated from support networks. They are completely lonely. It's impossible

898
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: for them to go to communicate and get some consolation.

899
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: Lee said. It is a very dangerous situation, and with

900
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: South Korea having the highest statistics when it comes to suicide,

901
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 2: the government has realized that they needed to step in.

902
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: Here's another quote from the same SEMP article, which was

903
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: written in twenty twenty three. Recently, South Korea's Ministry of

904
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: Health and Welfare announced a plan last month aimed at

905
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 2: reducing the suicide rate by thirty percent by twenty twenty seven.

906
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 2: The five year plan includes more frequent mental health examinations,

907
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: better counseling services for victims of crime, and improved care

908
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 2: for those who've attempted suicide. There are no details released

909
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: on how much money will be allocated. The Korean Suicide

910
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 2: Prevention Center, funded and run by the government, will also

911
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: provide counseling and treatments for vulnerable individuals, and the government

912
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 2: will fund medical expenses starting this year. South Korean Prime

913
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 2: Minister hendoksu said during a conference on suicide prevention in April.

914
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty one alone, there were about thirteen thousand

915
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 2: people who took their own lives. It's really unfortunate. It

916
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 2: is the nation's first responsibility to prodict lives.

917
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,919
Speaker 1: And much like society everywhere, Korea's attitude toward mental health

918
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: is typically not one talked about. Oftentimes it's treated as

919
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: if it is an inconvenience or a fleeting stage. It

920
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: is very quickly dismissed and typically ignored until it's too late. However, recently,

921
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: more and more idols have opened up and talked about

922
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 1: their own mental health diagnosis and the importance of seeking help.

923
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: Groups like BTS and GOT seven have been openly talking

924
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: about their own struggles and trying to change the attitude

925
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: about mental health in society. A teen Vogue article talking

926
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: about K pop influence in mental health conversation rights In

927
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: Asian communities, there's still a stigma about treating mental health issues.

928
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: Being depressed is since as a real problem, and some

929
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: Asians are very wary of being perceived negatively if they

930
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: do seek outside help. But the article goes on K

931
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: pop stars efforts to raise mental health awareness and the

932
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: empathy from global fans allows us to recognize that some

933
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: issues such as cyberspace bullying, problematic ideals of masculinity and

934
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: femininity misogyny are cross cultural, extending beyond national boundaries. This

935
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: is Juwon Park, a cultural anthropologist. The empathy and encouragement

936
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: from fans as a result could be a source of rejuvenation, passion,

937
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 1: and energy. Music companies have also realized that mental health

938
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: is a global issue that having their idols speak about

939
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: mental health is not a minus to the business. The

940
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: transparency could create more engagement from the fan base.

941
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: And there are other controversies outside the mental health including

942
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 2: sexual harassment within the industries, stories from different groups and

943
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: trainees of being abused and harassed by their own CEOs

944
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 2: and managers, and idols who've been caught filming an abusing

945
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: fans or other members. One big scandal, the Burning Sun scandal,

946
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: involving several celebrities and idols, were just recently sentenced and

947
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 2: caused a wave of backlash for the industry as a whole.

948
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: Those involved were accused of rape, drug charges, illegally filming,

949
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 2: and embezzlement. So much fallout occurred, including raids that would

950
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: lead to over five hundred arrests, that it was a

951
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 2: huge deal, and controversy over the overworking and underpayment of

952
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 2: idols have been recurring as well. Past incidents of idols

953
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 2: being underpaid or not even paid at all have many

954
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: questioning the ethicalness of the industry. Recently, Black Pin's Jenny

955
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: was seen performing with an IV after having to sit

956
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 2: out of a couple of performances due to COVID and

957
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 2: at the same time, at the same event, she had

958
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 2: to be rushed off the stage because she was not

959
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: doing well. The group has been touring non stop across

960
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: the world, and many wonder at what cost. Newer groups

961
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: like New Gene, who have just started, has brought to

962
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 2: light the same conversation about how young is too young

963
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: for someone to be an idol, and with acts like

964
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 2: New Gene and past controversy of another young idol, the

965
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: Korean government has finally passed a policy in hopes to

966
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 2: address it. From an Insider article, it says, on Thursday,

967
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 2: a bill to protect the underage K pop idols from

968
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 2: exploitation was passed in South Korea. The Culture, Sports and

969
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 2: Tourism Committee of the National Assembly passed the Popular Culture

970
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 2: and Arts Industry and Development Act during a plenary session.

971
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 2: Per South Korean outlet, Yon Hop, also known as a

972
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 2: lesung E Crisis Prevention Act, the newly passed law aims

973
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 2: to prevent celebrities from suffering damages resulting from exploitative contracts

974
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: by reinforcing financial transparency. The act is named after singer Lee,

975
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: who was under a quote slave contract where he was

976
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 2: never paid for his music for over eighteen years of

977
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: his career. Per K pop News outlet Korea, Boo. The

978
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 2: amendment also reinforced requirements aimed at protecting the rights interest

979
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: of underage workers in the Korean entertainment industry by lowering

980
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 2: the number of working hours again per Jon Hopps, citing

981
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 2: the Committee.

982
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: And a little more to explain what the amendment is quote.

983
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: Under the new amendment, entertainers under the age of twelve

984
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 1: are allowed up to twenty five hours a week up

985
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: to six hours a day. Those aged twelve to fifteen

986
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: are allowed thirty hours a week, while those above the

987
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: age of fifteen can work thirty five hours a week.

988
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: Both age groups are limited to seven hours a day.

989
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: In addition, the act prohibits any infringement of underage entertainer's

990
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: rights to education by forcing them to be absent from

991
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: or drop out of school per Yon Help. The South

992
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: Korean amendment also forbids any acts that may threaten the

993
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: health and safety of minors, which includes imposing an over

994
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: emphasis on physical appearance upon the children. Assaults, abusive language,

995
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: and sexual harassment are among the other prohibitions listed in

996
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: the act. Pop culture and arts businesses are now mandated

997
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: to designate a per in charge of youth protection who

998
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: will help to guarantee the human rights of young entertainers.

999
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 1: Er Yon Happ quote. This amendment will abolish the industry's

1000
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: absurd practices behind the development of k content and provide

1001
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: an environment where children and youth of pop culture artists

1002
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: can pursue their dreams while protecting their human rights, said

1003
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: Park Bogyin, the country's Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism

1004
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: per South Korea outlet mail business. But as the article

1005
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: states later, many production companies find ways to bypass these laws,

1006
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: so it will be interesting to see how this affects

1007
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 1: touring as well.

1008
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 2: Right, and that does bug the question who was profiting

1009
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 2: off all all this hard work. Unsurprisingly, the industry has

1010
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 2: made a lot of money, over five billion dollars to

1011
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: be specific, and that's probably underestimated. The big three, YGJYP

1012
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: and SM have made a hefty profit, and controversial things

1013
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: like dynamic pricing has only increased the amount. These capop

1014
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 2: entertainment companies take ninety percent of the profit at the top,

1015
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: and the KP pop artists split the rest of the

1016
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 2: ten percent. So if there's like seven members and you

1017
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 2: have what maybe a million dollars, but then you get

1018
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 2: one million dollars to you know, like that's how or

1019
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars and then you split it seven ways.

1020
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: Not a lot, to be honest, But some groups like

1021
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: BTS have better deals, so they were able to get

1022
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 2: stock shares from their label, which was a smaller label

1023
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: at the time, but they've now made a lot of money,

1024
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 2: which is now known as hibe or big hit earlier.

1025
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 2: But typically K pop stars are not that lucky, and

1026
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 2: it's estimated that only five percent of the groups actually

1027
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: go get beyond just idle status. Anyways, to that superstar era.

1028
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 2: And by the way, for the trainees, they technically don't

1029
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: get paid. Instead they they're room and board and all

1030
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: of that stuff is covered, so they calculate and say

1031
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 2: they get fifty thousand dollars worth of things I guess

1032
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 2: education worth, but all basusally, we heard earlier that they

1033
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: had to pay their own plastic surgery and such. So

1034
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 2: with all that, what does the feature of K pop

1035
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: look like? There are many who speculate that K pop

1036
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 2: may be plateauing at this point. Perhaps it's the oversaturation

1037
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 2: of K pop groups, or the controversies that have come

1038
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: with the industry, or even the loss of BTS, which

1039
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 2: many filth is actually the reason. And I know there

1040
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: aren't disbanding, they're on hiatus, they're still in contract and

1041
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: they'll be back after the military services. And there are

1042
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: a lot of individual projects that By the way, if

1043
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: you've not listened to Augusty Jungi, you should because it's

1044
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 2: really good and RM it's really good. He does something

1045
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 2: with Anderson Pok and Erica Badou. You should go listen

1046
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 2: to it. According to experts, there have been a slowdown

1047
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 2: in the market, and one expert told NPR that BTS

1048
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: may have set the bar too high. Here's a quote.

1049
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 2: The biggest influence of BTS is that they increase K

1050
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 2: pop's dependency on the oversea market and made it truly

1051
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: a part of the global popular music market, says the

1052
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: Hutag and associate profess of George Bason University, Korea, who

1053
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 2: has studied the globalization of K pop. And they transformed

1054
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 2: the entire K pop industry in their wake. We raised

1055
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 2: our bar so high, says music critic Kim Dehon about

1056
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: expectations for K pop artists from both the industry and fans.

1057
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: An increasing number of K pop groups are going on

1058
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: billbar charts and holding large scale concerts overseas at a

1059
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 2: faster pace than BTS, but their achievements no longer received

1060
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: the kind of nationwide attention and celebration that BTS did,

1061
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 2: in a sign that success in the global market is

1062
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: now almost anticipated of K pop idols. Yeah, but some

1063
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 2: of the experts say this could just be a transition

1064
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: where K pop is no longer a new thing, but

1065
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 2: again an industry that will maintain and could never really disappear,

1066
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 2: like they're going to be here. So with different groups

1067
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 2: breaking records and being first many things BTS, Black, Pink,

1068
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 2: Straight Kids, and twice, is doubtful it will go anywhere.

1069
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 2: But let's hope that the transition we see within this

1070
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 2: industry is more inclusive and better equipped to handle the

1071
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 2: care for not only the idols but as fans.

1072
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we'll see, we'll see.

1073
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: And I'm now you're an expert.

1074
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: Annie, Oh well, I don't know about that. We didn't

1075
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: even we cut some stuff out.

1076
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 2: We did.

1077
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 1: This more for me to learn. Perhaps we'll revisit. And

1078
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: I would love to hear from listeners. I have heard

1079
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: from some of you about btsh in the past. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: so please let us't know. If you have any thoughts

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Speaker 1: about this, you can email us at Stuff Media Mom

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01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on

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01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: Twitter at mostap podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at

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Speaker 1: stuff I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We

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Speaker 1: also have a tea public store, and we have a book.

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01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: You can pre order it at stuff you Should Read

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Speaker 1: Books dot com and on Audible I hear. Thanks as

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01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: always to your super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya,

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Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey.

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Speaker 2: Thank you all, yes, and.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Stefan Never Told You is

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Speaker 1: protection of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: where you listen to your favorite shows.