WEBVTT - Ep. 23: Golden-Eyed Lightning Rod

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<v Speaker 1>In the first half of the twentieth century, America came

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<v Speaker 1>very close to destroying its wolves, which were saved by

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<v Speaker 1>the insights of a new science that changed the country's

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<v Speaker 1>understanding of predators. I'm Dan Flores and this is the

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<v Speaker 1>American West, brought to you by Velvet Buck Wine, where

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<v Speaker 1>the hunt.

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<v Speaker 2>Meets the harvest.

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<v Speaker 1>A portion of each bottle goes to support backcountry hunters

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<v Speaker 1>and anglers. Limited supply available at Velvetbuck Vineyards dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Enjoy responsible golden eyed lightning rod. In the nineteen twenties,

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<v Speaker 1>as flappers and jazz and hollywod would captivate American cities,

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<v Speaker 1>a man named Bill Kaywood is engaged in a different

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<v Speaker 1>cultural project at fifty Kwood is a stocky stump of

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<v Speaker 1>a man with a face like a granite cliff. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a professional assassin of wolves, but says he loves the

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<v Speaker 1>animals he watches die. He's a real fellow. The big

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<v Speaker 1>Gray is lots of brains. I feel sorry every time

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<v Speaker 1>I see one of those big fellows thrashing around in

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<v Speaker 1>a trap, bellowing bloody murder. Kywood is the sort of

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<v Speaker 1>American that writer D. H. Lawrence getting his first extended

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<v Speaker 1>exposure to this country will describe as stoic a killer,

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<v Speaker 1>and what he is doing is mop up work. Where

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<v Speaker 1>the continent only three centuries before had easily held one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred thousand wolf packs. By the nineteen twenties, few packs

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<v Speaker 1>remain anywhere in the US outside Alaska, the Great Lakes

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<v Speaker 1>Country and the Lower South Is After the last survivors.

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<v Speaker 1>In the West, few enough animals that ranchers and government

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<v Speaker 1>hunters hired on their behalf have started giving the animals

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<v Speaker 1>individual names they called Two of these last gray wolves, Kywood,

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<v Speaker 1>is tracking down Rags and Greenhorn, animals that had once

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<v Speaker 1>lived in packs, once had mates and pups. Rags and

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<v Speaker 1>Greenhorn are enduring lives of lonely desperation. Like a significant

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<v Speaker 1>percentage of gray wolves who turn to livestock, they're too

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<v Speaker 1>old and frail to bring down elk without.

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<v Speaker 2>A pack's help.

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<v Speaker 1>Younger wolves who ended up stock killers often had suffered

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<v Speaker 1>crippling injuries, frequently by losing multiple toes. Are an entire

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<v Speaker 1>foot escaping the serrated jaws of the new house four

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<v Speaker 1>and a half steel trap. Rags had seen two of

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<v Speaker 1>the mates he had had during his lifetime panicked and

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<v Speaker 1>helpless in a trap. He learned from that and is

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<v Speaker 1>himself unmaimed. Rags is an old wolf, the rachers say seventeen,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's probably closer to ten or eleven, and now

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<v Speaker 1>either travels alone or with two younger wolves who are

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<v Speaker 1>far less crafty as for Greenhorn. This female wolf, named

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<v Speaker 1>for a local mountain near Kywood's front range home, has

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<v Speaker 1>teeth so worn she's been reduced to strangling her prey.

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<v Speaker 1>In her past, she's escaped traps and spit out a

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<v Speaker 1>strychnind bait before it could kill her. When Kwood goes

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<v Speaker 1>after her in nineteen twenty three, the ranchers claim she's

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen years old. Whatever her real age, she is slowly

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<v Speaker 1>starving to death. These are wolves the federal agency Kwood

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<v Speaker 1>works for should leave to die natural deaths, but Rags

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<v Speaker 1>and Greenhorn live in a nation that cannot brook a

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<v Speaker 1>single wolf remaining alive anywhere. It's Rags's turned first. Across

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<v Speaker 1>weeks of time, Kwood sets his traps and Rags digs

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<v Speaker 1>them up with a wolf that's smart. The former bounty

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<v Speaker 1>hunter rigs a trap set designed to snare a wolf

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<v Speaker 1>by a back leg as it digs up other traps

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<v Speaker 1>with its front paws.

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<v Speaker 2>It works with a.

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<v Speaker 1>Trap biting into a rear leg, and a second trap

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<v Speaker 1>sprung on the dragline of the first, bouncing after him

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<v Speaker 1>on a three foot chain. The old wolf spends a

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<v Speaker 1>final day in tortured flight. In the end, hemmed into

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<v Speaker 1>a box canyon, he confronts a fate he's escaped for

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<v Speaker 1>a decade. Purposefully, he limps straight towards Kwood, yellow eyes

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<v Speaker 1>fixed and staring, as the metal clanks over.

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<v Speaker 2>The rocks behind him.

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<v Speaker 1>Kwood stoically shoots the equivalent of an octogenarian wolf in

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<v Speaker 1>the head next Greenhorn. It's December, cold and snowing on

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<v Speaker 1>the front range, and with her teeth mostly gone, the

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<v Speaker 1>elderly wolf can't down a.

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<v Speaker 2>Deer, let alone a cow. She's desperately hungry.

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<v Speaker 1>She knows the sin of strychnine, but Kaywood has attracted

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<v Speaker 1>her with a horse's head wired to a juniper, around

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<v Speaker 1>which he's placed chunks of fat suet soaked in poisoned

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<v Speaker 1>Greenhorn shies away from the smell again and again. She knows,

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<v Speaker 1>from her own experience and from wolf culture, that this

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<v Speaker 1>scent means tragic danger. She's witnessed the thrashing, vomiting endgame

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<v Speaker 1>more than once, but she's starving to death. She circles back,

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<v Speaker 1>picks up a chunk of suet, swallows it, then another,

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<v Speaker 1>and one more. It's the Day after Christmas nineteen twenty three.

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<v Speaker 1>Kaywood believes she's the last wild wolf born in the

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<v Speaker 1>state of Colorado. By the early twentieth century, a new

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<v Speaker 1>institutional player emerged to confront wolves and other predators in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. Before nineteen oh five, it seemed that

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<v Speaker 1>Seehart Miriam's new Bureau of Biological Survey, created to map

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<v Speaker 1>the wildlife that was left in post frontier America, was

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<v Speaker 1>sitting pretty teddy.

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<v Speaker 2>Roosevelt was president, and.

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<v Speaker 1>The Bureau was dear to his heart, but Congress was

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<v Speaker 1>growing testing about funding an agency interested in pure science.

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<v Speaker 1>At Livestock Association meetings, Western ranchers were arguing that the

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<v Speaker 1>vast western public lands Roosevelt had set aside from homesteading,

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<v Speaker 1>were refuges for predators that attacked their stock. Since the

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<v Speaker 1>FED had created this situation, the ranchers believed the FED

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<v Speaker 1>ought to fix it, so in an act of self preservation,

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<v Speaker 1>the Bureau of Biological Survey remade itself into the solution

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<v Speaker 1>to the country so called predator problem. The claiming that

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<v Speaker 1>America suffered from these are the Bureau's words, wolf infested

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<v Speaker 1>National forests and the federal public domain. The Biological Survey

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<v Speaker 1>engineered its own public support. Between nineteen oh seven and

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen oh nine, it issued four reports on the so

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<v Speaker 1>called predator big game livestock relationship in and around the

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<v Speaker 1>new National Forests. A young, slightly educated Minnesotan named Vernon Bailey,

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<v Speaker 1>who was a whiz at trapping animals, authored most of them.

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<v Speaker 1>An agency like the Bureau, his reports claimed, could bring

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<v Speaker 1>orderly and scientific control to wolf destruction by hiring train

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<v Speaker 1>hunters and trappers men like Bill Kywood. Bailey held seminars

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<v Speaker 1>for National Forest managers, teaching them how to find wolf

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<v Speaker 1>dens and the best strategies for destroying pups and packs.

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<v Speaker 1>Forest Service rangers proceeded to kill eighteen hundred wolves and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty three thousand coyotes in the National Forest within a year.

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<v Speaker 1>Teddy Roosevelt would hereafter refer to Bailey by a favorite nickname,

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<v Speaker 1>Wolf Bailey. In twentieth century America, there was literally no

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<v Speaker 1>opposition to this campaign of annihilation America's beloved nature writer

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<v Speaker 1>John Burrows opined that predators certainly needed killing, since the.

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<v Speaker 2>Fewer of these there are, the better for.

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<v Speaker 1>The useful and beautiful game. As he wrote. Wildlife activist

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<v Speaker 1>William Hornday insisted that firearms, dogs, traps, and Strycht nine

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<v Speaker 1>are thoroughly legitimate weapons of destruction. No halfway measures suffice.

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<v Speaker 1>Not even John Muir spoke out. Although Muir did worry

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<v Speaker 1>that slaughtering wolves might induce what he called a penalty

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<v Speaker 1>for interfering with the balance of nature, there was another

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<v Speaker 1>constituency for the war on predators, too. Destroying wolves would

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<v Speaker 1>produce all the deer and elk America's new sport hunters

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<v Speaker 1>could ever want. No one asked whether sport hunters would

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<v Speaker 1>focus on the same animals in an elk herd that

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<v Speaker 1>wolves did, because no one knew anything about wolf prey

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<v Speaker 1>relationships then. But advocating replacing predators with human hunters was

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<v Speaker 1>a stroke of genius, bringing all manner of sportsmen's groups,

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<v Speaker 1>firearms manufacturers, and state game and fish agencies to the

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<v Speaker 1>cause of wiping out every wolf on the continent. So

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<v Speaker 1>without conducting a single research project on the wolf's role,

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<v Speaker 1>in nature. The Biological Survey engineered massive public support for

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<v Speaker 1>wolf extermination, and in nineteen fourteen, Congress approved and appropriation

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<v Speaker 1>of one hundred and twenty five thousand.

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<v Speaker 2>Dollars for the Bureau to launch the war.

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<v Speaker 1>Within two years, the Bureau had three hundred federal hunters

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<v Speaker 1>in the field. Under Miriam's leadership, the Biological Survey was

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<v Speaker 1>now a critical federal agency on behalf of a civilized

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<v Speaker 1>America made in the image of European countries that had

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<v Speaker 1>long ago destroyed their own predators. The one field of

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<v Speaker 1>twentieth century wildlife science in which Americans became acknowledged global

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<v Speaker 1>leaders was in fact the destruction of so called undesirable species.

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<v Speaker 1>If your assignment was to mass kill wolves, the way

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<v Speaker 1>to go was poisoning entire populations, and you did that

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<v Speaker 1>by strewing poisoned baits by the thousands across the American landscape.

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<v Speaker 1>As for the target animal, the campaign brooked no mercy

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<v Speaker 1>or compassion. At one point, Vernon Bailey inquired of his

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<v Speaker 1>boss about the proper dose of Strycht nine, so a

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<v Speaker 1>poisoned wolf might die within a humane three minutes, knowing

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<v Speaker 1>full well that any expression of mercy towards wolves was

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<v Speaker 1>a political liability, Miriam shot back, You had better go

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<v Speaker 1>at once to the hospital in Albuquerque. Inasmuch as no

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<v Speaker 1>sane man could possibly make such an absurd and utterly

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<v Speaker 1>preposterous statement as this, You are obviously in need of

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<v Speaker 1>mental treatment, Miriam went on, We want the cattleman behind us.

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<v Speaker 2>SABE.

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<v Speaker 1>With its new funding, the Bureau was building a plant

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<v Speaker 1>in Albuquerque to produce strict nine baits in volume. Chillingly,

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<v Speaker 1>they called it the Eradication Methods Lab. By nineteen twenty one,

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<v Speaker 1>this federal killing facility had moved to Denver, in which

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<v Speaker 1>location it eventually perfected an amazing witches bred of ever

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<v Speaker 1>deadlier pretocides. But for the next two decades, federal poisoners

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<v Speaker 1>relied on strychnine. It was potent twisting wolves into a

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<v Speaker 1>stryct nine signature. Their bodies wrenched and their tails shot

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<v Speaker 1>straight out, as if they'd been struck by a bolt

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<v Speaker 1>of lightning. Federal hunters quickly grasped the wolf's fatal flaw.

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<v Speaker 1>The smaller American canids coyotes, had evolved an adaptation called

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<v Speaker 1>fish and fusion, living in social groups when possible. Fusion

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<v Speaker 1>but capable of scattering when ecological pressures called for it fishing,

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<v Speaker 1>but wolves are so strongly family based that wolf killers

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<v Speaker 1>realize that killing one animal and using it sent on

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<v Speaker 1>your baits meant, as one bureau hunter put it, you

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<v Speaker 1>could quickly kill all the members of whole families of wolves,

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<v Speaker 1>with unmistakable evidence that the remaining members of the wolf

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<v Speaker 1>family have been seeking the lost member. Neuroscience studies at

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<v Speaker 1>this very moment are verifying the brain chemistry grief that

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<v Speaker 1>while canids suffer from the loss of their mates, at

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<v Speaker 1>this fikun moment, two new developments were about to alter

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<v Speaker 1>the art of the country's wolf story though. In nineteen fifteen,

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<v Speaker 1>scientific naturalists founded the Ecological Society of America, and at

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<v Speaker 1>their first meeting in Philadelphia, the founding members, Frederick Clements

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<v Speaker 1>and Edith Clements, Charles c Adams, and Victor Shelford, agreed

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<v Speaker 1>on a focus for their new discipline. There was adaptation

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<v Speaker 1>and natural selection, of course, along with investigating the flow

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<v Speaker 1>of energy through nature and an analysis of serial stages

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<v Speaker 1>and climax conditions. Shelford, who had just published his landmark

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<v Speaker 1>Animal Communities in Temperate America, pushed his colleagues to work

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<v Speaker 1>on biotic communities as well. In nineteen fifteen, the society

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<v Speaker 1>counted three hundred and seven members. But it was an

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<v Speaker 1>old fashioned topic, an idea Western culture had known since

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<v Speaker 1>the time of Herodotus and Plato as the balance of

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<v Speaker 1>nature that pushed ecology towards rethinking the role of predators.

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<v Speaker 1>The biological surveys policies had assumed the European folk position

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<v Speaker 1>predators were evil and disposable. Their eradication made for a

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<v Speaker 1>civilized nation. The ecologists believed there might instead be dynamic

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<v Speaker 1>equilibria at work in the natural world. That assumption would

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<v Speaker 1>become the crux of a raging battle in American and

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<v Speaker 1>Western science for the next half century. The other development

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<v Speaker 1>of the moment was America's creation of a National Park

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<v Speaker 1>Service in nineteen sixteen. Initially, Yellowstone, the world's first national park,

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<v Speaker 1>had emerged as a symbol of just how far the

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<v Speaker 1>wolf warriors intended to go. In nineteen fourteen, Yellowstone had

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<v Speaker 1>invited Vernon Bailey to come and show its personnel the

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<v Speaker 1>best techniques to exterminate wolves. Yellowstone's tally till the death

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<v Speaker 1>of the last gray wolf in the park that happened

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<v Speaker 1>in the year nineteen twenty six was one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>thirty six wolves, eighty of which were puppies. Between nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen and nineteen thirty five, the world's first Great Wildlife

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<v Speaker 1>part issued a death sentence to two thousand, nine hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and sixty eight coyotes. All the while the Eradication Methods

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<v Speaker 1>Lab was cranking out the strychnine until by the mid

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenties, Bureau hunters had distributed an astounding three million,

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<v Speaker 1>five hundred sixty seven thousand poison baits across the country. Yet,

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<v Speaker 1>amid the endgame in America, evidence of Darwinian natural selection

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<v Speaker 1>and an emergent wolf culture of survivability was emerging. Stanley Young,

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<v Speaker 1>a hunter who had rise through the ranks at the Bureau,

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<v Speaker 1>believed that these last animals that it is probable that

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<v Speaker 1>never did more intelligent wolves exist. Like eighteenth century sperm

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<v Speaker 1>whales that famously figured out how to avoid whaling boats

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<v Speaker 1>and harpooners, wolves like Rags and Greenhorn, drew on the

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:34.400
<v Speaker 1>accumulated cultural learning of scores of wolf generations and taught

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 1>their pups about rifles, traps, and poisons. No wonder the

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 1>last ones were so smart. Ratchers and federal hunters named

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.840
<v Speaker 1>many of the last wolves in the West. Along with

0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.520
<v Speaker 1>Rags and Greenhorn in Colorado, there was also Old Lefty,

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Old Old Whitey, Bigfoot, Phantom Wolf, and Oodahweep. In Oregon,

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.440
<v Speaker 1>there was a last wolf called Sycan, a King Lobo

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:14.680
<v Speaker 1>in New Mexico Snowdrift, and the prior Creek Wolf in Montana,

0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.359
<v Speaker 1>Aguila in Arizona, and the Custer Wolf in South Dakotas.

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Three toes or clubfoot were common wolf names, referencing all

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 1>the animals crippled by traps. There were red wolf renegades too,

0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 1>including Traveler in Arkansas, Black Devil in Oklahoma, and Crip

0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 1>in Texas, another maimed animal. Given the accounts federal hunters

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.000
<v Speaker 1>left of their protracted efforts to kill these wolves, there's

0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 1>little doubt these were indeed remarkably intelligent animals, and why not,

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.800
<v Speaker 1>as they were experiencing on all sides. Humans were engaged

0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:59.560
<v Speaker 1>in a crusade to wipe out their kind entirely. But

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:03.239
<v Speaker 1>as the in nineteen twenties dawned, what seemed initially to

0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 1>be a natural ally mounted the first real challenge to

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:12.320
<v Speaker 1>the Bureau's scorched earth Wolf War. The American Society of

0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:16.399
<v Speaker 1>Mammalogists met for the first time at the Smithsonian in

0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:22.200
<v Speaker 1>nineteen nineteen. Bureau founder Seehart Miriam became its first president

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.160
<v Speaker 1>with Vernon Bailey, and Bureau made E. A. Goldman as

0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:31.320
<v Speaker 1>charter members. Like Bailey, Goldman had field experience, but he

0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:36.360
<v Speaker 1>lacked a college degree. Nonetheless, the Bureau tasked these two

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:41.600
<v Speaker 1>men to explain and defend the wolf War against university

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:46.320
<v Speaker 1>trained ecologists. Among that group was a young forester interested

0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:51.520
<v Speaker 1>in wildlife, Aldo Leopold. There was also Joseph Grinnell, a

0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 1>cousin of the legendary conservation hero George Bird Grennell. Grennell

0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:01.680
<v Speaker 1>was an original thinker whose ideas quick challenged the very

0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 1>premises on which the Bureau based its predator War. The

0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.399
<v Speaker 1>first blow up happened at the mammalogists nineteen twenty four meeting.

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Grennell had just published a foundational piece on ecological niches,

0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 1>a fundamental insight into nature critical to appreciating what might

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:21.920
<v Speaker 1>happen if America.

0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Destroyed its wolf population.

0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Grennell and his graduate student E. Raymond Hall insisted from

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.720
<v Speaker 1>this work on niches that the Bureau was wiping out

0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.720
<v Speaker 1>animals that were playing an essential role in the continence

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.720
<v Speaker 1>balance of nature. As it turned out, both the ecologists

0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.600
<v Speaker 1>and the bureau men were unaware that the natural world

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.159
<v Speaker 1>in America was about to offer powerful examples of the

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:53.920
<v Speaker 1>implications of emptying predator niches. But Goldman and Bailey decide

0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.680
<v Speaker 1>they had heard about the balance of nature a few

0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.960
<v Speaker 1>times too many. If the US actually let predators live,

0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:05.000
<v Speaker 1>they argued, there would soon be nothing but carnivores left.

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 1>In a throwdown essay, The Predatory Mammal Problem and the

0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Balance of Nature that he authored for the Journal of Mammalogy,

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Goldman insisted that the coming of civilized man meant that

0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:22.879
<v Speaker 1>the balance of nature has been violently overturned, never to

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 1>be re established. Thus, large predatory mammals, destructive to livestock

0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 1>and to game, no longer have a place in our

0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:39.440
<v Speaker 1>advancing civilization. But Joseph Grenell had come up with another idea,

0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.360
<v Speaker 1>and this one vexed the Bureau as much as niches

0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.760
<v Speaker 1>and the balance of nature. Now there was a National

0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.399
<v Speaker 1>Park Service with an Organic Act directive charging it with

0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.280
<v Speaker 1>preserving nature for future generations.

0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 2>But how to do that and in what form?

0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 1>And zoologist Tracy storer had a suggestion they laid out

0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.720
<v Speaker 1>in an article for the journal Science. In their opinion,

0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:14.359
<v Speaker 1>preserving nature meant predaceous animals should be left unmolested and

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.399
<v Speaker 1>allowed to retain their primitive relation to the rest of

0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:19.919
<v Speaker 1>the fauna, as tourists.

0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Were already showing.

0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:25.639
<v Speaker 1>They wrote, wolves, coyotes, and lions were exceedingly interesting to

0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:30.879
<v Speaker 1>part visitors. Wasn't a complete nature? What preserving nature in

0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:38.080
<v Speaker 1>the parks intended offering predators permanent refuge in America's national parks?

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Dumbfounded Bureau personnel. New Bureau Director Paul Reddington was incredulous

0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:51.199
<v Speaker 1>we faced the opposition. He told his employees of those

0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.840
<v Speaker 1>who want to see the mountain lion, the wolf, the coyote,

0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 1>and the bobcat actually perpetuated as part of the wildlife

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:09.959
<v Speaker 1>of the country. One of the scientists keenly interested in

0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 1>this debate had published an essay he called the Varmit Question,

0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.600
<v Speaker 1>heaping praise on the Bureau when he was just out

0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:22.320
<v Speaker 1>of Yale. So Aldo Leopold was not a vocal critic

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:27.040
<v Speaker 1>of the Bureau as the wolf debate Royal Science, but

0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:32.320
<v Speaker 1>as conference chairman of the American Game Protection Association's meeting

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen twenty eight. Leopold's position about predators was obviously evolving.

0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:47.040
<v Speaker 1>No public agencies should ever control predators without substantial scientific research. First,

0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:51.600
<v Speaker 1>he wrote for the association, poisons should only be used

0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 1>in emergencies and no predatory species should be exterminated.

0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Over large areas.

0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Now, as professor of game management at the University of Wisconsin,

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Leopold dropped more deeply into ecology the field worried critics

0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:15.360
<v Speaker 1>were already calling the subversive science. One of the issues

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:20.160
<v Speaker 1>he particularly studied was the response of nature to predator removal.

0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 1>The nineteen twenties witnessed the rise of a new meme

0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:30.600
<v Speaker 1>to describe a new natural phenomenon. The meme word was eruption,

0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.679
<v Speaker 1>and it referred to a sudden ungulate population explosion that

0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:41.160
<v Speaker 1>caused herds to eat themselves out of forage and then crash. Spectacularly,

0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:47.800
<v Speaker 1>the cause effect seemed straightforward. The famous Kaibab eruption on

0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:51.160
<v Speaker 1>the north rim of the Grand Canyon was preceded by

0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:55.800
<v Speaker 1>bureau hunters erasing thirty wolves, seven hundred and eighty one

0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.920
<v Speaker 1>mountain lions, and five thousand coyotes from the north rim.

0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:05.680
<v Speaker 1>The resident mule deer then exploded from four thousand animals

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:10.160
<v Speaker 1>to one hundred thousand, leading to a catastrophic die off.

0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:17.359
<v Speaker 1>It made Kaibab a national story. Eruptions became a moral

0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:22.399
<v Speaker 1>that wouldn't go away. With wolves vanishing, deer and ilk

0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:27.960
<v Speaker 1>experienced crazy population oscillations somewhere in the country almost every year.

0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:32.439
<v Speaker 1>Something in nature obviously was a miss. Leopold would go

0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:36.119
<v Speaker 1>on to do a study of eruptions, finding reports of

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:40.200
<v Speaker 1>only two of them before nineteen hundred, but a whopping

0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:44.960
<v Speaker 1>forty two between nineteen hundred and nineteen forty five, the

0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:51.080
<v Speaker 1>number rising sharply after nineteen twenty. Eruptions seemed to supply

0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:57.720
<v Speaker 1>evidence for the so called Latka Volterra equations, ecological models

0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 1>of how prey and their predators follow an oscillating algorithm

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:07.240
<v Speaker 1>of rising and falling populations in harmony with one another.

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:11.000
<v Speaker 1>But the inertia of the wolf war was now an

0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:16.120
<v Speaker 1>unstoppable undertow in America. The Bureau's move was to go

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:19.400
<v Speaker 1>to the American public with a series of canned articles

0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>attend to those lauding the g men, hunting crime celebrities

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:30.600
<v Speaker 1>like Al Capone and John Dillinger, US agents stock desperadoes

0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:32.199
<v Speaker 1>of the animal world.

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:34.640
<v Speaker 2>The headlines of those stories read.

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:41.600
<v Speaker 1>There still had been no science to study the larger

0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:45.800
<v Speaker 1>role of wolves and predators in American nature, but by

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:49.480
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen forties that was finally about to change. The

0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:53.840
<v Speaker 1>two Minnesota brothers O Loss and Adolph Murray were soon

0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 1>to become legendary figures in American conservation. Having done landmark

0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:02.800
<v Speaker 1>studies on la in Jackson Hole and on the porcupine

0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 1>cariboo heard in Alaska, O Loss would conduct a game

0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:10.639
<v Speaker 1>changing study of coyotes and Jackson Hole, which appeared in

0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:16.359
<v Speaker 1>print in nineteen thirty five. Brother Adolph Mury's own ecology

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 1>of the Coyote and the Yellowstone Saw print in nineteen forty.

0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:24.439
<v Speaker 1>Both works concluded that far from being arch predators that

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:28.600
<v Speaker 1>deserved extermination, coyotes produced actions in the world that were

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 1>virtually all either beneficial to humans or neutral. The Muri

0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:39.520
<v Speaker 1>brothers would become famous as ethical researchers who followed their evidence.

0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately for the Bureau now renamed the US Fish and

0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 1>Wildlife Service, the Muri brothers work did not lead to

0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:53.280
<v Speaker 1>the conclusions it hoped for wolves either. By nineteen forty,

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Mount McKinley in Alaska was the only American park that

0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:03.200
<v Speaker 1>still had wolves. For centuries of unexamined wolf killing, perhaps

0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:06.359
<v Speaker 1>it was time to figure out something about wolf ecology.

0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 1>So in nineteen thirty nine Muri went to Alaska and

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 1>spent three years engaged in the unthinkable, actually studying wolves

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.399
<v Speaker 1>interacting among themselves and.

0:27:19.280 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 2>With their prey.

0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:25.480
<v Speaker 1>It was arduous, Murray said, he walked seventeen hundred miles

0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:29.359
<v Speaker 1>the first year, but everyone who reads his classic The

0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Wolves of Mount McKinley can't help but thrill to his

0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:38.280
<v Speaker 1>excitement at studying the mythic animal Americans had reflexively tried

0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:43.919
<v Speaker 1>to exterminate. After three years in Alaska, Muriy understood what

0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:48.640
<v Speaker 1>the Bureau had been too arrogant or myopic to see.

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Wolf prey relationships clearly were ancient, predating Europeans by thousands

0:27:56.080 --> 0:28:00.399
<v Speaker 1>or maybe millions of years. Natural selection had long sorted

0:28:00.440 --> 0:28:05.560
<v Speaker 1>out the details. Yes, wolves and coyotes ate prong horned fawns,

0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.520
<v Speaker 1>so prong horns had evolved a solution. They gave birth

0:28:09.560 --> 0:28:11.959
<v Speaker 1>to twins, an air and a spare.

0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Wolves preyed on doll sheep and cariboo, but they caught

0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:21.240
<v Speaker 1>the very young and the very old. Wolves held sheep

0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 1>numbers in check and kept them from overgrazing their mountains,

0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:30.159
<v Speaker 1>rather than destroying their prey. Wolf predation probably has a

0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 1>salutary effect on the sheep as a species. Muir wrote,

0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:39.840
<v Speaker 1>wolves did kill Caribou calves, but as Muir studied the relationship,

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 1>he realized that Cariboo herds are no doubt adjusted to

0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:45.400
<v Speaker 1>the presence and pressure.

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Of the wolf.

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 1>These things were ancient. They predated all humans in America.

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Muriy did one other thing readers of his book never forgot.

0:28:55.880 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 1>He brought the wolves he studied to life as individuals. Dandy, Robber, Mask,

0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:08.760
<v Speaker 1>and Grandpa had unique personalities. Pact members seemed affectionate and

0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 1>caring of one another. These were not the wolves old

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>worlders feared from the animals they had brought ashore. They

0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:19.760
<v Speaker 1>weren't the wolves the bureau's public relations articles implied were

0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:23.200
<v Speaker 1>animal gangsters. They were the wolves that had been in

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:29.000
<v Speaker 1>North America all along. The Wolves of Mount McKinley was

0:29:29.080 --> 0:29:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the country's first entree into a modern sensibility about wolves

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:39.720
<v Speaker 1>and predators built on science generally, and once the blindfold

0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:43.600
<v Speaker 1>was off, it was hard for the scientifically literate, ever

0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:47.360
<v Speaker 1>to put it on again. At almost the same time

0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:52.480
<v Speaker 1>Yuri's book came out, Old Bureau veterans Stanley Young and E. A.

0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:58.080
<v Speaker 1>Goldman finally published their two volume The Wolves of North America,

0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:02.400
<v Speaker 1>a book that has manned the wolf section of every

0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:07.600
<v Speaker 1>American library for almost a century now. They proudly pointed

0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 1>out that by the nineteen forties, from New England to Virginia,

0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:16.840
<v Speaker 1>wolves were now entirely gone. The Rocky Mountain States, with

0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:19.200
<v Speaker 1>all their public lands, barely held.

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>One hundred wolves.

0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 1>California's last wolves are down to fewer than fifty. There

0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:28.120
<v Speaker 1>were only sixty Mexican wolves left in the Southwest.

0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:29.640
<v Speaker 2>As World War two ended.

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:32.760
<v Speaker 1>The only places in the lower forty eighth that still

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:37.160
<v Speaker 1>had sizable populations were the Upper Great Lakes Country with

0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:41.600
<v Speaker 1>fourteen hundred wolves and the mid South with some four

0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:47.240
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty red wolves. Young and Goldman were unrepentant

0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:50.240
<v Speaker 1>wolf assassins. They laid out their book like it was

0:30:50.280 --> 0:30:54.480
<v Speaker 1>a military campaign against Germany or Japan, full of accounts

0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:59.400
<v Speaker 1>of wolf depredations, photos of wolfkilt. Stock claims that game

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:04.000
<v Speaker 1>was disappear because of wolves. They events dismayed that stock

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 1>raising Hispanic settlers in the Southwest in California had never

0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 1>attempted predator control, since the authors claimed wolves had slowed

0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Anglo American settlement of the continent by decades. The one

0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:23.200
<v Speaker 1>atrocity they couldn't level against America's wolves were attacks on humans.

0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:26.120
<v Speaker 1>Not that they didn't look hard for some example, but

0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:31.520
<v Speaker 1>they simply couldn't find one. In a case of future meat.

0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Past Aldo Leopold reviewed The Wolves of North America in

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:41.680
<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty five. How could it be, he wondered, that

0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Young and Goldman didn't acknowledge the deep history of their subject.

0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:50.720
<v Speaker 1>If wolves were as destructive of force as they implied

0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:54.160
<v Speaker 1>in their book, how had the continent's wolves failed to

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:59.120
<v Speaker 1>wipe out its own mammalian food supply before Europeans ever

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:05.400
<v Speaker 1>arrived last Leopold had visited Europe and studied its wildlife policies,

0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:09.240
<v Speaker 1>so he knew the bureau men never questioned the Old

0:32:09.280 --> 0:32:13.600
<v Speaker 1>World model. But European countries had nothing comparable to the

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:18.080
<v Speaker 1>vast wild public lands Americans had set aside, and their

0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:23.240
<v Speaker 1>model was based on folk tradition established long before ecology

0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:28.040
<v Speaker 1>was born that simply was not as Leopold said scientific

0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:33.480
<v Speaker 1>the new Wolf book reflected the naturalists of the past

0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:39.440
<v Speaker 1>rather than the wildlife ecologists of today. Leopold wrote ouch.

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:46.560
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen forty nine, America's star biologists finally published the

0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 1>book of his that would set the country on its

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:50.160
<v Speaker 1>modern path.

0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Of wolf recovery and restoration.

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Leopold's A Sand County Almanac became both a bestseller and

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:03.040
<v Speaker 1>a philosophical foundation for the ecology movement sweeping America as

0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 1>part of the sixties cultural revolution. Where damn lucky he

0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:09.800
<v Speaker 1>got it out. He died of a heart attack battling

0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 1>a grass fire that very year. Because A Sand County

0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 1>Almanac changed the world In vivid, poetic passages, Leopold's book

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:21.160
<v Speaker 1>introduced us to the insights of a mind that attract

0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:25.840
<v Speaker 1>every breakthrough in ecology. By then, he had concluded that

0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:30.360
<v Speaker 1>the old balance of nature idea actually lacked the flexibility

0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:34.280
<v Speaker 1>to account for a natural world that was endlessly changing.

0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:39.200
<v Speaker 1>He was now thinking of natural settings as interlink communities

0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:40.560
<v Speaker 1>of species.

0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:41.720
<v Speaker 2>With predators at the top.

0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:48.600
<v Speaker 1>We know those communities today as ecosystems. Leopold's ideas were

0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:53.320
<v Speaker 1>epiphanies for many For one, he laid out an ecological

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:58.280
<v Speaker 1>philosophy for living he called the land ethic that included

0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:03.120
<v Speaker 1>his Golden rule of ecology. A thing is right when

0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:07.719
<v Speaker 1>it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of

0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:12.279
<v Speaker 1>the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise.

0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:16.759
<v Speaker 1>The genius that built the United States had always been

0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:21.600
<v Speaker 1>self interest. Adam Smith and John Stuart Mill had hit

0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:26.279
<v Speaker 1>on a trade fundamental to our evolution, But Leopold did

0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:30.960
<v Speaker 1>not say an act was right when it preserved humanity

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:35.560
<v Speaker 1>or economics. Instead, he called on readers to think of

0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the innate rights, among them the simple right to exist

0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:44.600
<v Speaker 1>of other species in an earthly community that included us.

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Leopold's admirers called his new idea biocentrism. A San County

0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Almanac's most unforgettable scene was Leopold's own myth of personal redemption.

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 1>The chapter titled Thinking Like a Mountain was not merely

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:07.280
<v Speaker 1>a poetic rendering of his view that the United States

0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:12.000
<v Speaker 1>had an opportunity to create a distinctively American policy towards

0:35:12.080 --> 0:35:15.920
<v Speaker 1>nature for readers soon to be immersed in painful soul

0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 1>searching about so many unexamined assumptions in American life. Leopold's

0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:25.719
<v Speaker 1>story of shooting a wolf, watching the green fire die

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:29.960
<v Speaker 1>in its eyes, and realizing what a miscalculation he had

0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:35.040
<v Speaker 1>made about the ancient centrality of predators in the biotic community,

0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:38.600
<v Speaker 1>offered America a whole new trajectory.

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:43.839
<v Speaker 2>We were wrong, I was wrong, history said, but it's

0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:44.479
<v Speaker 2>not too late.

0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Ever since a Sand County Almanac fell into the hands

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:53.160
<v Speaker 1>of readers, there has been a quiet murmur of disbelief

0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:58.200
<v Speaker 1>from some about whether its most stirring scene really happened.

0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Did Leopold actually shoot a wolf and experience an ecological

0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:08.320
<v Speaker 1>epiphany as he watched it die? Some fifteen years ago,

0:36:08.760 --> 0:36:14.279
<v Speaker 1>a group of committed fans that included respected Leopold biographer

0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Susan Flater determined that indeed the wolf story was factual.

0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:23.839
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen oh nine, early in his career as a

0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 1>forester in the Southwest, Leopold was surveying the boundaries of

0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:33.160
<v Speaker 1>the Apache National Forest along Arizona's Black River today right

0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:37.200
<v Speaker 1>in the heart of the recovery area for endangered Mexican wolves.

0:36:38.040 --> 0:36:40.520
<v Speaker 1>From a casual mention of the incident in a letter

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:43.840
<v Speaker 1>to his mother, it seems that one morning he and

0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:49.600
<v Speaker 1>a companion shot a pair of animals Leopold called timberwolves.

0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:52.920
<v Speaker 2>So that part of his story at least now stands

0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:55.040
<v Speaker 2>confirmed as historical fact.

0:36:56.440 --> 0:37:01.120
<v Speaker 1>Whether Leopold's troubled reaction to watching a wolf die and

0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:05.600
<v Speaker 1>grasping the implications happened in nineteen oh nine or far

0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:08.759
<v Speaker 1>later in his life is the part that we can't know.

0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:11.040
<v Speaker 2>But maybe it doesn't matter.

0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:15.400
<v Speaker 1>We do know that Aldo Leopold didn't get to see

0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:19.080
<v Speaker 1>his America began to think like a mountain in his.

0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Memorable phrase, but he had pointed us.

0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Towards a new understanding and a new destination in our history,

0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and in that destination the wolf will return to its ancient,

0:37:31.080 --> 0:37:31.880
<v Speaker 1>rightful place.

0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:47.320
<v Speaker 3>On the comment, So, Dan, in this.

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:51.040
<v Speaker 4>This episode about wolves, you make the point that ecology,

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:55.560
<v Speaker 4>you can think of it as a subversive science and

0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:59.880
<v Speaker 4>sort of all the broader implications about thinking thing of

0:38:00.040 --> 0:38:03.680
<v Speaker 4>the natural orial in terms of connections and dependency and

0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:05.480
<v Speaker 4>all that stuff. I wonder if you can kind of

0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:10.160
<v Speaker 4>just begin by explaining ecology and what it meant to

0:38:10.200 --> 0:38:14.200
<v Speaker 4>people at the moment that it sort of had this

0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:16.320
<v Speaker 4>almost like ground shaking effect.

0:38:17.320 --> 0:38:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, The Ecological Society of America dates in nineteen fifteen

0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:30.360
<v Speaker 1>and it. Ecology obviously comes out of the Darwinian Revolution.

0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:34.279
<v Speaker 1>In fact, within about three or four years of the

0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:37.960
<v Speaker 1>publication of On the Origin of Species in eighteen fifty nine,

0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:43.799
<v Speaker 1>a German scientist was calling for a new science that

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:49.960
<v Speaker 1>applied the insights of Darwin's on the Origin of Species,

0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:54.600
<v Speaker 1>and he called it. He used a Greek term that

0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:58.839
<v Speaker 1>refers in fact to communities, and he called it ecology.

0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:02.040
<v Speaker 1>The United States, as I said, we don't get an

0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:07.799
<v Speaker 1>ecological society of ecologists until nineteen fifteen, although there are

0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:10.799
<v Speaker 1>already in that first Meetia three hundred and seven of them.

0:39:10.840 --> 0:39:15.000
<v Speaker 1>So they are already three hundred practicing ecologists in the

0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:19.160
<v Speaker 1>United States by that time. And the reason this is

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:23.520
<v Speaker 1>important in this discussion of wolves, and this is the

0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:27.520
<v Speaker 1>story of wolves. I mean, I talked a few episodes

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:31.480
<v Speaker 1>ago about wolves in the West in the nineteenth century,

0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:37.759
<v Speaker 1>and this is the story essentially of how we came

0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:43.719
<v Speaker 1>to understand the role of wolves in American ecological life.

0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:46.520
<v Speaker 1>And so if you're trying to figure out, for an instance,

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 1>why there is in the modern West this movement to

0:39:52.360 --> 0:40:01.120
<v Speaker 1>restore wolves to Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, now Colorado, obviously,

0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:04.680
<v Speaker 1>and California has wolves now, and so do the Pacific

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Northwest States. The reason this has become a thing in

0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:14.880
<v Speaker 1>our time is because of these developments in science that

0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:18.799
<v Speaker 1>I try to describe in this particular episode. This is

0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:22.839
<v Speaker 1>how and why it happens that in our time we're

0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:27.600
<v Speaker 1>making the attempt to recover wolves. The problem, of course,

0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:31.760
<v Speaker 1>was that during the time when science is discovering the

0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:35.960
<v Speaker 1>ancient and extremely important role wolves have always played in

0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:41.400
<v Speaker 1>North American history, we are still employing the old folk

0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:46.200
<v Speaker 1>tradition out of the old world, which had been telling

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:50.960
<v Speaker 1>us for hundreds of years, you're supposed to kill every

0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:57.000
<v Speaker 1>predator that exists. Predators are evil, predators may even be satanic.

0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:00.640
<v Speaker 1>This is what Adam and Eve confront when they had

0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:03.360
<v Speaker 1>to leave the Garden of Eden. They had to confront predators.

0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:07.319
<v Speaker 1>So we need to cleanse the world of predators. And

0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:11.840
<v Speaker 1>this kind of thinking was imported to the United States, obviously,

0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:16.440
<v Speaker 1>without any kind of scientific background whatsoever. And so we're

0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:21.960
<v Speaker 1>still as a country and a government agency that I

0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 1>talk about here, the Bureau of Biological Survey, is committed

0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:29.640
<v Speaker 1>to it. On behalf of particularly the livestock industry, we're

0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:32.800
<v Speaker 1>still trying to wipe out every wolf that roams across

0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:35.840
<v Speaker 1>North America. And this is happening at the same time

0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:40.520
<v Speaker 1>that the science of ecology, the subversive science, is beginning

0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:43.120
<v Speaker 1>to describe for us the role that these animals have

0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:47.200
<v Speaker 1>been playing in North American history for time immemorial. And

0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:54.719
<v Speaker 1>so that puts at odds these two really powerful forces

0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:59.520
<v Speaker 1>science on the one hand and this old folk tradition

0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:03.040
<v Speaker 1>on the other, and they battle it out for most

0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:06.319
<v Speaker 1>of the first half of the twentieth century about what's

0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:08.680
<v Speaker 1>going to happen to wolves. And I will say that

0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:11.880
<v Speaker 1>for the most part, for the early part of this story,

0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:14.560
<v Speaker 1>it's the old folk tradition of killing every wolf you

0:42:14.600 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 1>can kill that prevails. But by the end of the

0:42:20.239 --> 0:42:24.560
<v Speaker 1>period that this script goes to, basically by nineteen fifty,

0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 1>we have begun to realize that this is probably a mistake.

0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:31.600
<v Speaker 1>We've made a mistake with this because we haven't known

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:33.040
<v Speaker 1>enough about how the world has worked.

0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:37.319
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and you tell the story of wolves in the

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:41.080
<v Speaker 4>twentieth century. One that we just sort of touched on

0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:44.760
<v Speaker 4>is the history of science and changes in scientific thought.

0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:49.040
<v Speaker 4>But then there's another lens that's the history of the

0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:56.240
<v Speaker 4>growing bureaucratic state or administrative state, and thinking about institutions

0:42:56.280 --> 0:43:01.840
<v Speaker 4>and institutional missions and the frogatives for getting funding and

0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:04.720
<v Speaker 4>all these sorts of things like that very much shapes

0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:07.080
<v Speaker 4>the reality on the ground in the West in terms

0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:11.319
<v Speaker 4>of what animals live in places like Montana. And so

0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:16.040
<v Speaker 4>you mentioned earlier in this agency, the Bureau of Biological Survey,

0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:18.080
<v Speaker 4>and I wonder if you can just sort of drill

0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:21.120
<v Speaker 4>down on what it is that the Bureau of Biological

0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:23.160
<v Speaker 4>Survey is up to when it takes on this mission.

0:43:23.960 --> 0:43:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:28.160
<v Speaker 1>In my book Well in the World, I spent some

0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:31.960
<v Speaker 1>time talking about the origins of this particular agency and

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:36.279
<v Speaker 1>what it really is is a government agency founded in

0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:40.719
<v Speaker 1>the eighteen nineties to try to take stock of what

0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:47.600
<v Speaker 1>wildlife is left in America after the destruction of the

0:43:47.640 --> 0:43:52.440
<v Speaker 1>frontier period, and is founded by an ivy leaguer a

0:43:52.520 --> 0:44:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Yale named sa Hart Miriam, and he early on has

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:04.520
<v Speaker 1>the idea that what he's going to do is to

0:44:04.600 --> 0:44:09.680
<v Speaker 1>send people out his personal appointees, to sort of do

0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:12.160
<v Speaker 1>surveys about what is left. And so it's kind of

0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:17.000
<v Speaker 1>a pure science approach that by the early twentieth century

0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:23.480
<v Speaker 1>is resulting in the biological survey not being able to

0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:27.000
<v Speaker 1>make a good case to Congress for appropriating money for them,

0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:30.360
<v Speaker 1>because Congress is sort of reluctant to appropriate money for

0:44:30.400 --> 0:44:32.280
<v Speaker 1>an agency that's just doing pure science.

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:33.560
<v Speaker 2>And so what.

0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:40.360
<v Speaker 1>Miriam understands by about nineteen five and he immediately moves

0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:43.320
<v Speaker 1>in the direction of this. Once he gets a good

0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:48.440
<v Speaker 1>grasp of how he's going to have to act to

0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:52.360
<v Speaker 1>make his agency survive, he realizes he's got to find

0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:59.400
<v Speaker 1>a mission that Congress will appropriate money for. And since

0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:04.120
<v Speaker 1>the public lands have left many people in the livestock

0:45:04.160 --> 0:45:07.640
<v Speaker 1>associations in the West convinced that one of the things

0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:10.399
<v Speaker 1>that public lands are doing is to providing a kind

0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:14.160
<v Speaker 1>of breeding They're providing a breeding ground for predators, for

0:45:14.280 --> 0:45:19.600
<v Speaker 1>bears and mountain lions and wolves and coyotes. The livestock associations,

0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:22.160
<v Speaker 1>which have been using bounties for a long time to

0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:25.160
<v Speaker 1>try to control these animals, turn to the government and say,

0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:28.120
<v Speaker 1>you guys should do something about this thing that you've

0:45:28.160 --> 0:45:33.880
<v Speaker 1>screwed up. And Miriam realizes, Okay, this is our new mission.

0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:38.200
<v Speaker 1>We need to make ourselves the solution to the predator problem.

0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:41.320
<v Speaker 1>And that's basically what he does, and at that point

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Congress begins to appropriate an enormous amount of money, I mean,

0:45:46.080 --> 0:45:49.000
<v Speaker 1>to the point where, by the early nineteen thirties they

0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:52.719
<v Speaker 1>give the Biological Survey ten million dollars to try to

0:45:52.760 --> 0:45:54.160
<v Speaker 1>wipe out predators.

0:45:54.600 --> 0:45:56.680
<v Speaker 2>And so this agency.

0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:59.400
<v Speaker 1>That started as a kind of little pure science agency

0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:01.520
<v Speaker 1>to try to figure out what was left at the

0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:05.600
<v Speaker 1>end of the frontier, has now become a major federal

0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:10.520
<v Speaker 1>bureau designed to eliminate as many predators in America as

0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:10.959
<v Speaker 1>they can.

0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:16.680
<v Speaker 4>And once an agency hitches its wagon to an interest

0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.359
<v Speaker 4>group like that, with a mission like that, it's very

0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:23.320
<v Speaker 4>hard to reconsider their actions in light of new science.

0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:24.800
<v Speaker 2>It is very hard.

0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:29.040
<v Speaker 1>And so that's where this big conflict emerges, because as

0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 1>the ecologists began to discuss this war on predators, that

0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:37.360
<v Speaker 1>the Biological Survey is mounting I mean, and they're carrying

0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:42.160
<v Speaker 1>it out at every level. Vernon Bailey, who is Wolf Bailey,

0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:45.719
<v Speaker 1>as Teddy Roosevelt calls him, who's the expert on how

0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:48.040
<v Speaker 1>to kill wolves, how to find their dans, how to

0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:52.239
<v Speaker 1>kill puppies, I mean, even goes to Yellowstone and Glacier

0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:55.799
<v Speaker 1>and teaches the managers there, here's how you.

0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Get rid of your wolves.

0:46:56.800 --> 0:47:00.000
<v Speaker 1>So that that's why in the nineteen twenties we basically

0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:03.719
<v Speaker 1>eradicate all the wolves in Yellowstone National Park, all the

0:47:03.719 --> 0:47:07.160
<v Speaker 1>wolves that are in Glacier, I mean, one place after

0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:10.640
<v Speaker 1>another we are figuring out, and of course the way

0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:14.600
<v Speaker 1>they're doing it primarily is poisoning them with strychnine, because

0:47:15.800 --> 0:47:19.439
<v Speaker 1>these wolf killers have realized that the way to get

0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:23.560
<v Speaker 1>rid of mass numbers of wolves is to poison them,

0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:29.719
<v Speaker 1>because wolves in particular have an Achilles heel, and it's

0:47:30.239 --> 0:47:36.640
<v Speaker 1>their emotional attachment to their families, their pups, and their mates.

0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:38.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, one of the things I mentioned in this

0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:44.520
<v Speaker 1>particular script is as I did earlier, is that we've

0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:48.000
<v Speaker 1>got right now in the recent nineteen twenty five or

0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:53.399
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five neuroscience meeting, studies being done on the

0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:59.080
<v Speaker 1>chemical expressions of grief in wild canids from losing their mates.

0:47:59.800 --> 0:48:03.880
<v Speaker 1>And that's what these hunters realize, just by experience in

0:48:03.920 --> 0:48:08.040
<v Speaker 1>the teens and twenties. If you can kill one animal

0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.480
<v Speaker 1>out of a wolf pack and then bait your sets,

0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:14.560
<v Speaker 1>your poison sets with the sin of that animal, you

0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:17.600
<v Speaker 1>can kill every single animal in the pack, one after

0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:20.840
<v Speaker 1>the other. And that's why wolves turn out to be

0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:25.840
<v Speaker 1>relatively easy to get rid of with poison. It's because

0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:30.600
<v Speaker 1>of their particular binding affection to their mates and to

0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:34.520
<v Speaker 1>their pubs. So, I mean, by the middle nineteen twenties,

0:48:35.239 --> 0:48:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the Bureau Biological Survey has put out three and a

0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:42.919
<v Speaker 1>half million poison baits across mostly the West, but other

0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:46.320
<v Speaker 1>parts of the country too, with the goal of wiping

0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:47.439
<v Speaker 1>wolves completely out.

0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:55.120
<v Speaker 4>And when you're describing this conflict, there's sort of one

0:48:55.160 --> 0:49:01.279
<v Speaker 4>individual who embodies it, you know, personally, and that's Aldo Leopold, right,

0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:08.240
<v Speaker 4>who I think is underappreciated as a as a thinker

0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:13.040
<v Speaker 4>about the natural environment, right, And I mean he's really

0:49:13.080 --> 0:49:15.960
<v Speaker 4>sort of an intellect. He has profound intellectual influence on

0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:19.520
<v Speaker 4>how we view the natural world today. But you know,

0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.360
<v Speaker 4>he starts out as a guy in public service and

0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:27.320
<v Speaker 4>he's a boots on the ground, you know, public land manager,

0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:30.920
<v Speaker 4>and he's an ecologist, and he undergoes this sort of.

0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Conversion. Yeah, as it were.

0:49:35.320 --> 0:49:38.759
<v Speaker 4>That that I think is like it's easy to understand

0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:41.000
<v Speaker 4>the bigger story when you sort of look at it

0:49:41.080 --> 0:49:42.120
<v Speaker 4>through Louipold's eyes.

0:49:42.680 --> 0:49:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's that's a good way to look at Elder Leopold,

0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:52.480
<v Speaker 1>because Aldo Leopold in his lifetime goes from expressing the

0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:57.680
<v Speaker 1>sort of folk sentiment of the more wolves, the more

0:49:57.840 --> 0:50:02.360
<v Speaker 1>predators you killed, the better it is for game, for

0:50:03.200 --> 0:50:10.080
<v Speaker 1>livestock herders to becoming the person who, by the middle

0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:14.840
<v Speaker 1>of the twentieth century sets up what happens in the

0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:19.760
<v Speaker 1>last half of the century, where after the Endangered Species

0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Act has passed, we not only proclaim various species of

0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:27.600
<v Speaker 1>wolves to be endangered, but under the recovery provisions of

0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:32.080
<v Speaker 1>that act, we start recovering them. So as Aldo Leopold,

0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:35.560
<v Speaker 1>that's a good way of thinking of him. He starts,

0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:37.399
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he writes an article when he's a young

0:50:37.440 --> 0:50:42.080
<v Speaker 1>man called the Varmit Question, where he praises the Bureau

0:50:41.719 --> 0:50:47.000
<v Speaker 1>of Biological Survey and their wolf war. But by the

0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:52.960
<v Speaker 1>nineteen teens and twenties you can begin to track the

0:50:53.120 --> 0:50:56.960
<v Speaker 1>changes in his attitudes. He becomes a professor of ecology

0:50:57.000 --> 0:51:01.279
<v Speaker 1>at the University of Wisconsin, a very famous public intellectual.

0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:06.319
<v Speaker 1>Even by the nineteen thirties, but you can see that

0:51:06.480 --> 0:51:09.040
<v Speaker 1>his opinions are changing, and one of the things that

0:51:09.480 --> 0:51:12.520
<v Speaker 1>changes them is that he does this study of these

0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:17.840
<v Speaker 1>ungulate eruptions that are taking place in early twentieth century America.

0:51:17.880 --> 0:51:20.120
<v Speaker 1>And I mean I talked about this in the script,

0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:22.799
<v Speaker 1>so I'll just be brief about it. But what was

0:51:22.880 --> 0:51:27.359
<v Speaker 1>happening was that as predators are being removed across the

0:51:27.360 --> 0:51:30.400
<v Speaker 1>American landscape, we were starting to get and this happened

0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:32.600
<v Speaker 1>all over the country. I mean, it didn't happen just

0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:35.880
<v Speaker 1>in the West. It happened in places like Pennsylvania, South Carolina.

0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:40.680
<v Speaker 1>You were getting these huge eruptions, the huge growth in

0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:47.719
<v Speaker 1>populations of mule, deer, whitetailed deer, elk, moose, and then

0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:52.279
<v Speaker 1>they would outstrip their food supply and there would be

0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:57.439
<v Speaker 1>this tremendous population crash where thousands of animals would die

0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:00.960
<v Speaker 1>in the winters for lack of food. They had browsed

0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:03.160
<v Speaker 1>the brows line too high to be able to reach.

0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:06.800
<v Speaker 1>And Leopold decided he was going to do a historical

0:52:06.840 --> 0:52:08.680
<v Speaker 1>study of this. So you want to know how many

0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:11.480
<v Speaker 1>of these eruptions had happened in the nineteenth century. He

0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:15.440
<v Speaker 1>was able to find two, but he found forty five

0:52:15.560 --> 0:52:19.359
<v Speaker 1>of them that it happened after nineteen hundred, when we

0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:23.239
<v Speaker 1>began to have success in removing predators, and so it

0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:27.600
<v Speaker 1>made him, it gave him an understanding of what the

0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:33.759
<v Speaker 1>relationship was between predators and their prey. And then he

0:52:33.880 --> 0:52:37.000
<v Speaker 1>goes the full distance, of course, and sort of not

0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:42.080
<v Speaker 1>only coming to realize how important wolves are in America,

0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:45.879
<v Speaker 1>to encouraging us to begin to restore them.

0:52:46.880 --> 0:52:50.080
<v Speaker 4>Well, Dan, I'm sure there's more to say about wolves,

0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.000
<v Speaker 4>probably more than can be said, but we'll leave it there.

0:52:53.760 --> 0:53:05.839
<v Speaker 1>There'll be more wolves to come, at least one more reapon. Indeed,

0:53:05.480 --> 0:53:05.520
<v Speaker 1>U