1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: You're listening to Ruthie's table for in Partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: Imagine going to a close friend's birthday months after the 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: death of your son. Imagine realizing it was too soon 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: and telling the man you're talking to, who you hardly know, 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: why you need to leave. He takes your arm and 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: he insists on seeing you to the lift. Then he 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: goes down with you until you get to the street. 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: This becomes a ten minute walk to the car park, 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: a climb up the stairs, him holding your hand tightly, 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: until you find your car, driving off. You see him 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror, waving good bye. I was 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: this woman, and Tom Hollander was this man, and his 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: act of tenderness and compassion has stayed with me for 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: thirteen years. There are many stories about Tom Hollander. The 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: best ones are told by him, not least his life 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: in the Day for the Sunday Times, the best in 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: a great ever written. He is a fantastic actor White 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: Lotus Patriots, most recently captivating audiences as Truman Capote in 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: Feud Capote versus the Swans. He sings beautiful songs to 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: a six month old son. He's passionate about what he 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: cooks and what he eats. Yesterday he sent me a 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: photograph with no caption, of fran Hickman with a large 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: stainless steel saucepan obscuring her face, drinking the contents. Imagine 24 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: being me in the River Cafe with Tom Hollander on 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: a Tuesday afternoon, talking about memories of food, memories of friendship, 26 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: family and all he is doing. Then imagine how special 27 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: this feels. And it's true, I remember that, and it 28 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: is something that stayed with me for years. But what 29 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: is really staying with me is spaghetti with peas and pascutto. 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: So ingredients untagrams of butter, one small red onion, chopped, 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: three hundred grams of peas, sea salt and ground pepper. 32 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: One loaf of garlic, thinly sliced, two tablespoons of chopped 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: flat leaf parsley, three tablespoons extra virgin olive oil, one 34 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty grounds producto slices torn into pieces, three 35 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: hundred grounds of spaghetti, fifty grounds of freshly grated parmesan. 36 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: Heat the butter in a heavy frying pan over a 37 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 2: medium heat, Add the onion and fry until soft. Add 38 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: the peas, and salt and pepper, reduce the heat low 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: and cook for five minutes. So that's the thing about peas, 40 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: I know quite sure. Mostly we cook frozen peas, don't we, 41 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 2: And you can pretty much just sort of put them 42 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: in water for about a minute and then they're ready. 43 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,839 Speaker 2: But these peas fresh, so you cook for longer. That's 44 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: why they they take five minutes of cooking. 45 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it depends really what part of the season you're in. 46 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: When you have the very very small pieas, you hardly 47 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: have to cook them at all, I see. And then 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: you know, the tougher they get and the larger they get, 49 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: you might not use them in a pasta sauce because 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: you want them to be cooked down and really part 51 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: of the softness of the pasta. 52 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 2: But so these were new seas, fresh fresh peas. So 53 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 2: you've added the peas and the salt in the pepper, 54 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: and you reduce the heat to low and you cook 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: it for five minutes, and then you add the garlic, parsley, 56 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 2: produter and olive oil. You cover and cook over a 57 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: low heat for fifteen minutes. Meanwhile, bring a large saucepan 58 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 2: of salted water to the boil, add the spaghetti and 59 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: cook until al dente. Add the spaghetti to the pe mixture, 60 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: stir well with a spoon. Stir in the pasta water, 61 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: and top with parmesan cheese. Serve immediately. 62 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: So you've just made this in the River cafe. What 63 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: was that like? 64 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: I watched Joseph. It was thrilling because I haven't ever 65 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: seen somebody who knows really what they're doing that close up. 66 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: It was also delicious and made me want to go 67 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: and cook. It's good to watch, isn't it. 68 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: It's good to actually see something being made rather than 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: always reading. 70 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: Yes yes, and to see his hands move someone who's 71 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: done it for years, so it becomes like a dance. 72 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: Have we ever cooked on stage? 73 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: I don't. Oh, I feel like I did. When I 74 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: was a child actor. We did sausages. We had sausages 75 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: in It was called Captain Styrick and it was one 76 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: of the greatest shows that the Children's Music Theater, which 77 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: is I think now called the National Youth Music Theater 78 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: National Youth Music Theater created. It was a brilliant dark 79 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 2: ballad opera. It was called and we were all ragged Children, 80 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 2: Dickenzie and Beggar children in Bartholomew Fair, and there was 81 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: a and Captain Styrick was the young It was the 82 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: young kid who was our leader. There was it wasn't 83 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 2: fake in like, it wasn't Oliver Twist. It was actually darker. 84 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: And Captain Syrih went mad, Julian Sylvester. He was called, 85 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: if you're out there, Julians Soversity, you were unforgettable. Anyway, 86 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: maybe he's listening, maybe he is. I hope he is somewhere. 87 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: And we oh thirteen fourteen, and we did it on 88 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: the stage of the National Theater in what was then 89 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: called the Cottaslow Theater. And we had sausages which we 90 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 2: cooked on a we I mean, I don't think we 91 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: really cooked them, but we were as if cooking them. 92 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 2: And then we got to eat them, and you know, 93 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: it was quite fun to have something to eat halfway 94 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: through the second half. I remember that, yeah, And I 95 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: sing a song from that was it? I sing that 96 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 2: kit our son. I've seen it to him. Now, many 97 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: a man has left this land on a boat that's 98 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: bound for Botany. Why should he grieve? He could be 99 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: leaving a life of meal and not any you'll boast 100 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: and brag of the deed he's done to avoid the 101 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: nag of the hungry sun. But he's been undone at 102 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: the feast of fun and it's botany Bay for him. 103 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 2: So do you. 104 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: When you're on stage, does your schedule for eating change? 105 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: I try to eat in the day before the biggest 106 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 2: meals in the afternoon before the show because it's quite athletic. 107 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: So what time would that be if the place starts 108 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: at seven. 109 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: Then three or fours? Yeah, you two or three or 110 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: four and then go to sleep, yeah, and then do 111 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 2: the show. And then if there are people in then 112 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: you and you find out you're going out to dinner. 113 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: Then you have to have fish and vegetables and try 114 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: not to eat all the chips and all the rest 115 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: of it and that nose Masnez the last play, I 116 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: would have a fanaffel salad in the dressing room without 117 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: leaving between shows, because that you just need carbohydrate and 118 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: fuel and then go and you'd try to eat a 119 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: bigish breakfast on a mass in a day, but that 120 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: in between showday I would buy it before I'd take 121 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: it in, put in my fridge, eat it, go to sleep. 122 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: That was a ritual that was very good. 123 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: Would you drink. Would you have alcohol if you are 124 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: going on. 125 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: Stage between shows? Yeah? No, never, no, though everyone No, 126 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: I tried to. I tried all of those things in 127 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: my twenties, and they it's a mess. It affects your 128 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: timing and your memory and your speed and your reactivity. 129 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: Don't you can't. It ruins it. But in the olden days. 130 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: I remember Oliver Cotton telling me that he remember it 131 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: was very strange in the mid eighties at the National 132 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 2: everyone stopped drinking during the show, and he said, if 133 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: you were on stage with Paul Schofield and you were 134 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 2: downstage center, you would expect to smell whiskey on his breath. 135 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: So they were just they were just used to it. 136 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,559 Speaker 2: I think it didn't They would drink so much more 137 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: in those days that it just didn't affect them in 138 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: the same way. But obviously alcohol, a small amount of 139 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: alcohol or a small amount of any intoxicant allows releases 140 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: your imaginative stuff and makes you relax. When I played 141 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: the violin at school, I would always find concerts very 142 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: tense making, and I discovered that having half a half 143 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: of a glass of beer allowed me to play better 144 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: in a concert situation, just because I was so racked 145 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: with nerves otherwise. But the association between, you know, being 146 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: artistically brilliant and being intoxicated has got an awful lot 147 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: of people into terrible trouble over the years, not least 148 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: of whom Truman Coupoti. 149 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: We could talk about Capoti and women and food because 150 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: those women a lot of so many scenes in restauran. Right, 151 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: they went to lunch every day. 152 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: You're right, But I wonder if they skin he was 153 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: their job. Yeah, they drank. I think they drank and smoked. 154 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 2: They drank and smoked and and sort of died young. Yeah, 155 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: perhaps they were celebrating being in the inn crowd and 156 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: being at the table, the best table in the best restaurant. 157 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: And yes, they were restraining themselves. He couldn't stop, he 158 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: couldn't control his appetite. And he loved cooking. He loved 159 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: he loved his own kitchen. Yeah, in the South was yes, yes. 160 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: And the black and white ball they served his, you know, 161 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: the black and white ball sort of apotheos. The black 162 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: and white ball was a ball that Truman Capoti threw 163 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 2: in I can't remember when the very early sixties, on 164 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: the back of In Cold Blood, which had made him 165 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 2: hugely famous, and his obsession with sort of high society 166 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: and his own celebrity came together in one glorious moment, 167 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: and he created the guest list to beat all guest 168 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: lists that have ever existed, so much so that people 169 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: knew about him were fighting to get on it. And 170 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: aristocrats flew from Europe. All the film stars, you know, 171 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra, Mia Farrow, the Anneli's the probably Mick Jagger, 172 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: we can ask him. They all turned up to the 173 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: plaza and he gave them corn beef hash, which he 174 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: remembered fondly from Monroeville, Alabama, where he'd grown up. But 175 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 2: they all complained about the budget of the catering that 176 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: it was very small. For him, it was about getting 177 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: them in. They were the decoration, They were the party, 178 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: their dresses, their masks, but there was nothing there. There 179 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: were some balloons and some rather dodgy food that neither wanted, 180 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: and I think the party ended relatively early, and a 181 00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: whole bunch of them went gambling. 182 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: Was it like filming that scene? Did you do it? 183 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 2: They recreated it in the place, and Zach Posen had 184 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: done the dresses for the ladies. It was amazing that was, 185 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: and there was there's a sequence in it if people 186 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: he did it emotionally for his mother, we think, we 187 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: think those of us who made that show because his 188 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 2: mother wanted to Truman's mother, who'd abandoned him when he 189 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: was four, then married a man called Joe Capoti, who 190 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: gave him his name, Truman his name, but who was 191 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: a He was a sort of he was dodgy, his 192 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 2: finances were dodgy, and she nearly made it herself into 193 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: Upper east Side society. And then Joe Caboti was revealed 194 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: as being sort of bankrupt and hopeless. It all fell 195 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: apart and she killed herself, and then Truman had this 196 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: ball to kind of to go, look, Mum, I've done it. 197 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: I've done it for us. Every noone wants to be here. 198 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: They've all got to be here. And in our version 199 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: of it, episode three of Feud Capodi and the Women. 200 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: In our version of it, his mother comes to him 201 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: as a ghost in the ball, and what Lee Radswell 202 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: sees is Truman dancing drunkenly on his own and Lee 203 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: Radswell looks across looks across the room, Callista f Lockhart 204 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: looking at him sadly going look at the Paul sod. 205 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 2: He's just a drunk. And then the final scene of 206 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: the episode is in color and he's not dancing on 207 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: his hand, he's dancing with his mum. 208 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: Did he he did? 209 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: Loves cooking. Yeah, he was addictive and compulsive. So he 210 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: goes up and down. You see. We in our version 211 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: we pretty much do fat Trooman because I couldn't in 212 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 2: a TV schedule go up and down as much as 213 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 2: I needed to, so we went with fat. Ryan Murphy said, 214 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: you need to you need to put some weight, so 215 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: I did, which was very enjoyable. Obviously less enjoyable trying 216 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: to lose it again. How do you get weight? I've 217 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 2: done this a couple of times. I did it, and 218 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: it basically you have to just eat all the things, 219 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: the obvious things like pizza and ice cream and cornish 220 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 2: pasties and chips, and then you get fat very quickly. 221 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: How does it make you feel? 222 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: And then it's marvelous in the moment, And then and 223 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 2: I started to find it hard to put my socks on, 224 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 2: and I got breathless doing sensible things I thought, easy usual, 225 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: I mean ordinary things. That was that was distressing. So 226 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: and also I'm a bit old to be messing around 227 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: with my weight like that. And furthermore, I've I have 228 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: a little bit of a compulsion to overeat myself, and 229 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: have spent all of my most of my professional life 230 00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: slightly going slightly slightly up in between jobs and then 231 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: having a diet before a job, and going up and 232 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 2: going down, and going up and going down, and trying 233 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 2: to stay disciplined, trying to be like my father, who 234 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 2: weighs himself every day and if he ever goes over 235 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: eleven stone, he has a look at breakfast, he says, 236 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: I work. I know whether I can have a heavy 237 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: or like retors, depending on what the scales it on 238 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: every day? Does that which sounds like, you know, one 239 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 2: of the Swans with its level of obsession, but he's 240 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: he's eighty eight and still going strong. 241 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: You're saying before that putting it on was one thing, 242 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: but you haven't told us about how you take it off. 243 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: So I went to a clinic, about half of it 244 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: came off in an Austrian clinic, and then I really 245 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: only lost. And then I went and did the play 246 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: in which I was playing someone who needed to actually 247 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: be a bit heavier than me. So I took me 248 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: that was Patriots playing Berezovsky, who was quite portly. So 249 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: I kept it on for that and that worked and 250 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 2: then I only I only got it off about three 251 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: months ago with the fear of doing the American breast junk. 252 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: It. 253 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: That motivated me enough to cut down on everything for 254 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: a few weeks and it came off. And so I'm 255 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: always trying to to, you know, discipline myself. But I 256 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: do have a tendency to I love eating, but I 257 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: also eat my feelings, you know, which which people do, 258 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: and if you do it too much, it's it's it's 259 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 2: not good for you. So I tried to do other 260 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: things with my feelings. 261 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: Friend of mine, I was at a dinner recently where 262 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: they were talking about a zempec. Oh yes, yes, and 263 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: they were saying that, and it was kind of interesting 264 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: to her. She said, really, what it's done for me, 265 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: It's taken the noise of food away. It's taken all 266 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: that noise. Should I shouldn't? I how much? When? And 267 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: actually I understand that a lot, But I also think 268 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: it's a kind of noise we do want in our 269 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: life as well. We like the noise of food, don't 270 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: we we like the kind of thought of going to 271 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: bed at night and thinking what am I going to 272 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: have tomorrow for lunch or then? 273 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: And actually it's the noise of being alive, isn't it. 274 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 2: It's the desire then, the fulfillment of the desire, that 275 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: the creative process, the gathering of ingredients, the construction, the destruction, 276 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: the kind of the clearing up afterwards, everything from the 277 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: preparation to the end of it. It's all it's And 278 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: it's a sort of I mean, you could, I could 279 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: become pretentious if I'd say, but you know, it's a 280 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: cycle of life, isn't it. But yes, But but to 281 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: be at war with food, which you can be, is 282 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 2: not good. And I have I do have a sense 283 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: of that because being you know, an actor, where you 284 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: become inevitably obsessed with your appearance, you know, it has 285 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 2: an a tendency to make you think, I mustn't need, 286 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 2: I mustn't need, I mustn't eat, so I'm beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. 287 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: It's never really made any difference. I met her. I 288 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 2: met her an actor once in Italy who'd long retired. 289 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: He'd been a famous sixties heart throw quite famous. And 290 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 2: I'm not going to name him, partly because it would 291 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 2: be the wrong thing to do, and also because I 292 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: can't remember his name. But he said I had to 293 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 2: retire because I was sick of being thin and I 294 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 2: wanted to eat. And he lived in the Italian hills 295 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: near Cordona, and he loved food and he ate it. 296 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: And he's probably no longer with us, but he was 297 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: living the life of a you know, a bonne viver. 298 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: And I did sometimes think I'll get to a certain 299 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 2: age and then I'll give up trying to not be fat, 300 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: and then I'll just become a fat actor. Because fat 301 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: actors they never stopped working. They're always there's always rumber, 302 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: a fat actor in everything. Anyway, I can't do that. 303 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 2: Orson Welles Well exactly, Dear Richard Griffiths, or you know, 304 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: you sort of think they're they're loved. But I don't 305 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 2: want to do that because I think I want to. 306 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 2: I now need to live as long as I can. 307 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: For sure, we certainly shall, because you have a son 308 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: I do. Did you know the River Cafe has a shop. 309 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: It's full of our favorite foods and designs. We have 310 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: cookbooks and then a Napkins kitchen ware toad bags with 311 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: our signatures, glasses from Venice, chocolates from Turin. You can 312 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: find us right next door to the River Cafe in 313 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: London or online at shop Therivercafe dot co dot uk. 314 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: What meals like in your house? Did you all sit 315 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: down for dinner every night? Your sister and your sister. 316 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 2: Us, your cook and mom would cook and did you cook? 317 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 2: His dad didn't cook then, but he did. He didn't 318 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: cook when we were children, really, but he learned to 319 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: cook once we left home and he loves cooking now. 320 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 2: That's one thing that's maybe that's changed. I wonder whether 321 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 2: this was true. I was thinking about it, just that 322 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: when I grew up it felt like, you know, mothers 323 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: did the cooking, fathers did the eating, but that we've 324 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: lived through a period where that's changed, right as sorry, 325 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: mothers are working, mothers are working, so fathers are cooking, 326 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 2: and then people like Jamie Oliver, scion of the River 327 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 2: Cafe have taught everyone how that they can do it too, right. 328 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 2: So but I have image of my father learning to cook, 329 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 2: and then I am sort of learning to cook actually 330 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 2: the same sort of age, which is great. That's a 331 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: that's a great development isn't it. 332 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: Yes, when you were growing up in your parents' house, 333 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: your grandparents were nearby. 334 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: Were they they were in Devon? No, we were in Oxford, 335 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 2: but they We used to go to them on the 336 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 2: way to Cornwall every spring and every summer, and sometimes 337 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: on the way back. And then towards the end of 338 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: my grandparents' life he was living with us in Oxford. 339 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: Your grandfather who came from Germany with your father background, Yeah, 340 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: Czechoovcia checkless. 341 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, in nineteen thirty nine he came with my dad. Yeah. 342 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: And how old was your father three? Oh? I see, 343 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: so your father came very early. Yeah, so the grandmother, 344 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: grandfather and your. 345 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 2: Father nineteen thirty nine. Yeah, they made this epic journey 346 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: across Central Europe and landed it marriage I think. Yeah. 347 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: And they had sort of twenty five suitcases at the 348 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: beginning of the journey, and they were thrown off one 349 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 2: I won, reduced to about three by the time they 350 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 2: got to the end. Any money they had left was 351 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 2: there in my father's shoe, the toddler's shoe, and then 352 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 2: they but they knew some people. My grandfather was ran 353 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 2: a radio station in Czechoslovakia. The music was in charge 354 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: of the music, the classical music part of it, and 355 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: a BBC producer had sent him this letter inviting him 356 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 2: to come to give a talk about Yanichek as my 357 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 2: father knew Yanichek and had written about Yanicheck and promoted 358 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: Yanischeck and was a friend of his, and please bring 359 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 2: us your some expertise about Yanicheck. And that was what 360 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: allowed them to get through because they had German accents, 361 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 2: so people they were immediately people were suspicious of them. 362 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: Did they speak English at all? 363 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: My grandmother spoke quite good English, and my grandfather had 364 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 2: to learn English. But they were you know, he was 365 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: forty two or something forty He was born in eighteen 366 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 2: ninety nine, So yeah. 367 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: They And as is your grandparents, did they cook for you? 368 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 2: They did a bit. I think my parents used to 369 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 2: take over pretty much doing all the domestic things when 370 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 2: they got there. We used to say it was Bohemian 371 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 2: their life on it was technically Moravian. Happy food situations 372 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 2: were in our home. I have very happy memories of 373 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 2: our family suppers in which the day would be downloaded 374 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: and we'd all share our experience of school. My parents 375 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 2: were teachers, so we would all be talking about ask 376 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: what had happened at school. They would be as well, 377 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 2: and I did miss that. That is that's one of 378 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: the principal memories of growing up, is that moment of 379 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: the day for sure. 380 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: So let's look at this point. 381 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: So this is a book that my mother made me 382 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: when I was a student and sent me off to 383 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 2: be a student with and put in a few of 384 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,479 Speaker 2: the favorite things that we'd eat and that she'd cooked us, 385 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: and it was just sort of start us off. So 386 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 2: this is when you went to Cambridge. Yeah, yeah, so 387 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. She would have made this for one 388 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 2: So I was looking at a book. So she's written 389 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 2: bon epitty and then she sectioned it into soup, fish, meat, miscellaneous. 390 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 2: Under miscellaneous is tomato chutney. 391 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: And your mother grew up in Britain. 392 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well yeah, she grew up in Africa until 393 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: she was six and then she then she was in England. 394 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 2: But they're to rollo cross there. That's the sort of 395 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 2: thing that we used to eat children. So well, it's 396 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 2: Central Europe. It's Tyrilian. Actually it's Czech Austrian because they 397 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 2: were so we did eat and dad, what's fascinating about 398 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: because dad does not really that is that is an 399 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 2: Englishman now, but when we go it's food. Food reveals 400 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 2: about your origin. So he loves venishntsel, and he loves 401 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 2: apple strudle, which he now makes. He makes very good. 402 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: And so Mum used to cook things o goulash we 403 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 2: had we used to eat regularly, which I've recently learned 404 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 2: how to make, which is I'm thrilled about because it's 405 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: what meat do you use? Well, actually, mushrooms the last time, 406 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 2: no meat. A vegetarian goulash because Fran is vegetarian. And 407 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 2: then I secretly sometimes make it if Fran's not at home. 408 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: I made it with venison. We live in a bit 409 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: of the country which is infested with deer, and people 410 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: are always giving each other piles of venison out the 411 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: deep freeze. So delicious. But terrolla crosl is torolla crosal 412 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: is a sort of is a kind of peasant Alpine dish. 413 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: Cooked potatoes, potato and sausage. You have the cooked potatoes 414 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: and then you're earning slammy ham and sausage. 415 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: Those are those are sort of oars either garlic sausage, 416 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 2: just the classic okay, yeah, and. 417 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: Then you add the guy. Then the potatoes fry, add 418 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: the meat to the ingredients, and cook for another ten minutes. 419 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: That seems like a cook recipe for a college student, 420 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: doesn't it. 421 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 2: Yes, And then it was then it was a bad 422 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 2: recipe for an out of work young actor who didn't 423 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: have enough to do and would go, well, I can 424 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 2: fill the second half of the day with lunch and 425 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 2: the consequences of lunch. I can fill it with the 426 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 2: buying of the ingredients, the cooking of lunch, the over eating, 427 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 2: and then the falling asleep. And that'll get me till 428 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 2: that'll get me to PM program that would get me 429 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 2: to five o'clock. No, but I remember making to roller 430 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: Cross Limpeca. 431 00:25:51,160 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is beautiful. If you liked listening to Ruthie's 432 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: Table four, would you please make sure to rape and 433 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: review the podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 434 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. You were 435 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: doing theater ever since you were in the play in 436 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: the National Youth Theater and new auditioned for this from 437 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: the Dragon School. 438 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: Is that No? 439 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 2: No, it was at the next school. It was called 440 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: Abingdon School. And yeah, this company used to go around 441 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: schools and work in the school with the drama department 442 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 2: for a term and create a show and then take 443 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 2: it to the Edinburgh Festival. And we were all incredibly lucky. 444 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 2: And from that I got They did one called Well 445 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: Captain Syrick was the first one, which I think they'd 446 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 2: started at Haberdasher's Asks. All sounds very embarrassingly privileged, which 447 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 2: it was because they were all I think independent schools. 448 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: Tiffins it started at, which is I think a sort 449 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 2: of grammar school at that point, but it was actually 450 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 2: that children Yeah, that National Youth Music Theater thing that 451 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 2: I got picked up for a TV film a BBC 452 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: Tikenzie and drama for children's theater in nineen eighty one 453 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: called John Diamond, which was an adaptation of a Leon 454 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: Garfield book, and that was so exciting to be picked up. 455 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 2: I had a term off school. I was driven around 456 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 2: in a car and I got given money and got 457 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 2: to stay in a hotel on my own and eat. 458 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 2: I remember eating duck a la range on my age 459 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: fourteen in a hotel in Tetbury and thinking Wow, this 460 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 2: is the life. And that rather rewired my brain in 461 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: a way that is either helpful or helpful because it 462 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: meant sort of the end of ambition, or at least 463 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 2: it meant the end of imagination. So I then thought, well, 464 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 2: I must repeat this for the rest of my life 465 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: and become an actor. So that was when I was fourteen, 466 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 2: and then I went back school, went to university, and 467 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 2: then yes, was always waiting to start acting. 468 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: Anyway, this is a report recently. Have you seen that 469 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: the percentage of actors who've been to private schools is 470 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: getting I think maybe, and so maybe this will change 471 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: with their new government. But the investment in state schools 472 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: to culture where we could get political, but it is 473 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: true that you know it is it is part of 474 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: education and part of a miniority of a society to 475 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: find the kids who. 476 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: Have all the sixties heroes, all those actors that Albert Finney's. 477 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: And Michael Caine. 478 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were all the Terrence Stamps and the petro'tools. 479 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: They weren't privately educatd. 480 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: But Michael Caine said that he was not allowed he 481 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: was Yeah, I think he was not allowed or he 482 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: it was a real triumph when he was able to 483 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: play a military man with a Cockney accent, because. 484 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: That was not I see, I see, yeah, no, but 485 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: that that was of course exactly. 486 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: I think that's another theme that has gone through. You know, 487 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: we talked about Grandmother's cookie, but we also talked about people, 488 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: particularly in the arts they see, being able to eat 489 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,239 Speaker 1: the food that they want drink the wine that they 490 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: would like to have as a measure of their success, 491 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: you know, discovering that food, what food could be? Did 492 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: you have that or did you know? 493 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? I did? 494 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: And when was that? 495 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 3: That? 496 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:46,959 Speaker 1: Will you describe him? 497 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 2: In a hotel fourteen? 498 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: So still that was all the memories you have, choosing 499 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: the eating one. 500 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: You're right, I did, I repeatedly did it that the 501 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: twenty or thirty? Is that I in which I mean? 502 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: It came to a head when my accountant said that 503 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: when I went for that meeting that you have with 504 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,239 Speaker 2: your accountant at the end of the year where they 505 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 2: they tally everything up, he said, you as you eat 506 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 2: every single night in a restaurant, And I said, do 507 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 2: I am sure it can't be true, and you know 508 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 2: you do pretty much five out of seven men, you 509 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: know you're doing that to you? And no, But I 510 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: think I was definitely experiencing that thing of going I 511 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: can I can celebrate the fact that at least it's 512 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 2: working out sufficiently to allow me to do this. And 513 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: and yes, regularly celebrating the fact that it's it's okay 514 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: by ordering something slightly more than you ought to. 515 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: Is that where you put so? Is that where you spent? 516 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: He's noticed that. Did he also say you've bought too 517 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,959 Speaker 1: many clothes, You've got so many taxis? 518 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: No, I would say it was food. It was that. Yeah, yeah, 519 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 2: it's restaurants. 520 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: We did that when Richard and I lived in Paris. 521 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: It was when the days when you had check books 522 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: and checkbook stubs. Yes, and you know, we flow through it, 523 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: you flick through it, and every stub was the name 524 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: of a restaurant or a food chop. It was it 525 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: went to the food. 526 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, at this moment, in this conversation, it feels 527 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 2: like a wonderful thing to have done. I sometimes think, ooh, ouch, 528 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: maybe I could have just now I'm in a phase. 529 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 2: Now we're in this sort of the world has changed 530 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: and that's not the way I live anymore. And also 531 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 2: now we have a child, and so the family dinner 532 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: thing is suddenly becoming exciting, you know, And so that 533 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: that little vignette that we were just talking about the 534 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 2: family supper that's suddenly becoming the kitchen table, the home 535 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: cooked food thing that's all suddenly becoming the new aspiration. Also, 536 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: the world has changed, and so swaning about jumping out 537 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: of cars going into flashy restaurants doesn't feel quite right anymore. 538 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: But I'm looking forward to, you know, cooking our child, 539 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 2: fish fingers and peas, that joy and catch up. I'm 540 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 2: looking forward to all of that. 541 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: Food is about your father and your grandfather coming from Czechoslovakia. 542 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: Food is about sitting at the table and your mother's 543 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: book that you know, this beautiful book that your mother 544 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: gave you as a gift to tell you what to 545 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: cook and what to eat, is almost like she was 546 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: coming with you. It also is comfort. So to finish 547 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: what has been a glorious, imagine day, I would ask you, 548 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: Tom Hollander, to tell me if you need comfort, if 549 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: you have to go to food for comfort, is there 550 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: a food that you would choose. 551 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,239 Speaker 2: Well, I'm in a sort of desert island, dissy way. 552 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: If I had to reduce it, if I had to take, 553 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 2: if I was allowed the one food to comfort me, 554 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 2: I would take my mother's actually grandmother's chutney recipe. 555 00:32:59,080 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: Do you want to read it? 556 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 2: Sure? Three pounds of tomatoes, one pound of onions, half 557 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 2: a pint of vinegar, malt very important. I try to 558 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: make it with refined more viger. The other they didn't work. 559 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: One tablespoonful of curry powder, one tablespoonful of dry mustard, 560 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: one and a half tablespoonfuls of cornflour, a pound of sugar, 561 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 2: seven dried chilies. But the chilies you can put far 562 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: more in. Some people like it very hot, some people don't. 563 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: Corner of teaspoonful of cayne pepper salt, two tablespoonfuls of salt, 564 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: and you cut up the tomatoes and the onions, and 565 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 2: you sprinkle the salt, and you leave them overnight. That's 566 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 2: the long bit, and you let them do some chemical 567 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: thing and it smells very strong the next morning, that mixture. 568 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 2: And then you pour in the vinegar and you add 569 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 2: the sugar and the chilies and the cane. You boil 570 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 2: for half an hour. You mix the curry powder of 571 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: the mustard and the corn flowers, and you get a 572 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: paste and a little vinegar. You add it to the 573 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 2: rest slowly and you stir it in, stir it in 574 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 2: bit by bit boil for five minutes, stirring all the time, 575 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: and then you put into bottle and seal and you 576 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 2: take the chilies out before bottling if you don't want 577 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 2: it too well. And it's absolutely the most delicious jompney 578 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 2: I've ever had. And and you can you know, have 579 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 2: it with cheese. Obviously you can also stir it into risotto. 580 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: It's you could probably put a blob on. You can 581 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 2: put it on anything. I love it. 582 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: What would you bring me one next time? 583 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 2: Okay, I will, I will, I should have done that, 584 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 2: I will bring. 585 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, thank you, beautiful time. 586 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 2: Thank you. How many a man has left this land 587 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 2: on a boat that's bound for Botany? Why should he grieve? 588 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 2: He could be leaving a life of me, not any. 589 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table for in partnership 590 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: with Montclair. 591 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 3: Ruthie's The Table four is produced by Atame Studios for iHeartRadio. 592 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 3: It's hosted by Ruthie Rogers and it's produced by William Lensky. 593 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 3: This episode was edited by Julia Johnson and mixed by 594 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 3: Nigel Appleton. Our executive producers are Fay Stewart and zad Rogers. 595 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 3: Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator 596 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 3: is Bella Cellini. Thank you to everyone at The River 597 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 3: Cafe for your help in making this episode.