WEBVTT - Interview: Marissa Meyer 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:09.165 School of Humans. 0:00:11.125 --> 0:00:13.725 It's so interesting to me that I will read a 0:00:13.725 --> 0:00:16.645 source material and I will decide on the things that 0:00:16.805 --> 0:00:20.205 I think are absolutely necessary. But then I'll go and 0:00:20.245 --> 0:00:24.685 I'll read someone else's retelling about rumpelstilt skin and be like, 0:00:25.245 --> 0:00:27.925 they like totally took out the whole baby thing. There's 0:00:27.965 --> 0:00:30.605 no newborn child, there's no bargaining for it. And to me, 0:00:30.685 --> 0:00:32.565 that just like blows my mind, Like it didn't even 0:00:32.565 --> 0:00:35.405 cross my mind to just not include it. I struggled 0:00:35.485 --> 0:00:37.365 for months trying to figure out what I was going 0:00:37.445 --> 0:00:42.445 to do with that, you know, like, what that was 0:00:42.485 --> 0:00:43.845 an option you could just like. 0:00:43.925 --> 0:00:53.125 No, I'm Miranda Hawkins. Welcome to the Deep Dark Woods. 0:00:54.285 --> 0:00:57.565 The last few episodes have taken us down paths of 0:00:57.765 --> 0:01:03.285 forgotten slippers, breadcrumb trails, and mischievous helpers. We're starting to 0:01:03.405 --> 0:01:07.285 understand where Brothers grim Tales come from and why each 0:01:07.325 --> 0:01:11.685 of these stories continue to live on throughout centuries. But 0:01:11.725 --> 0:01:14.685 before we get to more stories, I thought it would 0:01:14.725 --> 0:01:18.125 be important to speak to some celebrated authors who have 0:01:18.325 --> 0:01:21.645 taken beloved fairy tales and put their own spin on them. 0:01:22.125 --> 0:01:25.765 Like I said before, fairy tales and their adaptations are 0:01:25.805 --> 0:01:29.165 snapshots of society and our values of what's going on 0:01:29.365 --> 0:01:33.125 in that moment in history. By speaking with authors from 0:01:33.205 --> 0:01:36.725 our era, we can see how their fairy tale adaptations 0:01:36.845 --> 0:01:41.205 reflect this moment in time. Today, I am speaking with 0:01:41.285 --> 0:01:45.285 none other than author Marissa Meyer. Marissa is a New 0:01:45.365 --> 0:01:50.525 York Times bestselling author of The Lunar Chronicles, The Renegadees Trilogy, Heartless, 0:01:50.685 --> 0:01:54.845 The Gilded Duology, and Instant Karma. She is also a 0:01:54.885 --> 0:01:58.325 fellow podcaster with her show The Happy Writer, where she 0:01:58.365 --> 0:02:00.365 interviews other writers about their books. 0:02:00.925 --> 0:02:02.485 And like so many of us, she. 0:02:02.525 --> 0:02:05.165 First got introduced to fairy tales through Disney. 0:02:12.005 --> 0:02:16.005 I can trace back to first seeing The Little Mermaid 0:02:16.085 --> 0:02:19.565 in theaters Disney's The Little Mermaid, and I was like five, 0:02:19.765 --> 0:02:22.085 I think when it came out, and I just like 0:02:22.245 --> 0:02:24.525 was obsessed. And of course then we got the movie 0:02:24.525 --> 0:02:27.205 and I watched it NonStop, and you know, I had 0:02:27.245 --> 0:02:30.405 it all memorized, blah blah blah. And then my grandma, 0:02:30.525 --> 0:02:32.965 who I was also really close to before she passed, 0:02:33.565 --> 0:02:36.805 she heard that I was so obsessed with this movie, 0:02:36.885 --> 0:02:38.685 and so she got me a little book of fairy 0:02:38.725 --> 0:02:41.525 tales and the first story in that book was the 0:02:41.565 --> 0:02:45.445 Little Mermaid by Hans Christian Anderson, and I don't think 0:02:45.485 --> 0:02:48.365 she knew how different. 0:02:48.485 --> 0:02:50.365 It actually is from the Disney movie. 0:02:50.925 --> 0:02:54.125 So I read it as you know, five six year old, 0:02:54.725 --> 0:02:57.805 little starry eyed child, and. 0:02:57.925 --> 0:03:01.805 Was just devastated about this story. 0:03:01.965 --> 0:03:05.045 And I was angry and I was upset, and I 0:03:05.245 --> 0:03:08.565 fell like Disney had lied to me, and it was 0:03:08.645 --> 0:03:11.725 kind of traumatical, I guess. But it also then like 0:03:11.885 --> 0:03:15.165 led to all this curiosity and I thought, well, okay, 0:03:15.205 --> 0:03:17.245 but what about Cinderella? 0:03:17.285 --> 0:03:19.085 Did Disney lie to me about Cinderella? 0:03:19.205 --> 0:03:20.605 And so now I have to go off and read 0:03:20.645 --> 0:03:24.245 the old Cinderella, and you know what they did. There 0:03:24.485 --> 0:03:27.525 was things in this that I wasn't expecting and that 0:03:27.525 --> 0:03:30.365 that just continued on for pretty much my whole life. 0:03:30.405 --> 0:03:34.205 Now, yeah, that's devastating for like a five or six year. 0:03:34.085 --> 0:03:37.925 Old stopping it's not just story at. 0:03:37.885 --> 0:03:41.725 All, No, No, I mean eventually we all have to 0:03:41.805 --> 0:03:44.885 learn like these things. But like, yeah, whatever, it's it's hard, 0:03:45.005 --> 0:03:48.045 especially when it's the fairy Tales, but it's so funny. 0:03:48.045 --> 0:03:49.045 You bring up Cinderella. 0:03:49.325 --> 0:03:52.565 Was that the first Brother's grim story that you ran across? 0:03:53.325 --> 0:03:57.125 I honestly don't know. I know that after that book 0:03:57.165 --> 0:04:00.005 of fairy tales that my grandma gave me, I started reading. 0:04:00.085 --> 0:04:03.645 I mean, I became voracious reading Brothers Graham, reading folk 0:04:03.685 --> 0:04:05.805 tales from around the world. So I don't have a 0:04:05.845 --> 0:04:09.445 clear memory of what the first grim fairy tale was 0:04:09.485 --> 0:04:12.445 that I read, but I became pretty obsessed, pretty. 0:04:12.165 --> 0:04:15.685 Hard when I was also doing I guess my unlearning 0:04:15.725 --> 0:04:19.045 of Disney Cinderella was the first Brother's Grim that I 0:04:19.165 --> 0:04:22.765 ran across. That was the non disneyfied version, And I 0:04:22.885 --> 0:04:27.325 was like, what, But that's kind That's actually why I 0:04:27.365 --> 0:04:31.045 started this podcast because I love the darker tales. They 0:04:31.085 --> 0:04:33.645 really speak to me more so than the more light 0:04:33.685 --> 0:04:36.805 hearted versions. But that's just that's a personal preference. But 0:04:37.405 --> 0:04:40.285 you know, you're saying having this book, like you just 0:04:40.325 --> 0:04:42.605 wanted to know more and everything, But do you have 0:04:42.685 --> 0:04:45.525 anything specific about like what drew you do these tales? 0:04:45.645 --> 0:04:48.605 Was it the different endings or just I don't know something? 0:04:48.605 --> 0:04:49.645 And then that spoke to you. 0:04:51.045 --> 0:04:52.845 Yeah, I mean I think, like you, it was the 0:04:52.965 --> 0:04:57.685 darkness a lot of it. I love Disney. I still 0:04:57.725 --> 0:05:00.685 love Disney. I'm definitely a Disney girl at heart, but 0:05:00.685 --> 0:05:03.125 but there's such a difference between you know what Disney 0:05:03.205 --> 0:05:06.325 is giving us, and you know that element pop culture 0:05:06.725 --> 0:05:09.005 versus these old tales that have been around for hundreds 0:05:09.045 --> 0:05:13.245 of years. And I think in our modern society now 0:05:13.245 --> 0:05:15.085 that we're all used to Disney and we kind of 0:05:15.125 --> 0:05:18.205 all have this expectation of like, well, this is for kids, 0:05:19.245 --> 0:05:21.965 and then you read these old dark stories and you 0:05:22.005 --> 0:05:24.805 start to get people thinking, oh, that's too dark for children, 0:05:24.805 --> 0:05:26.205 that's too scary, and I'm like. 0:05:26.285 --> 0:05:28.405 No, children love this stuff. 0:05:28.445 --> 0:05:31.925 They eat it up, they're fascinated by it, and we 0:05:32.045 --> 0:05:34.725 forget that, like a lot of kids have to deal 0:05:34.805 --> 0:05:39.085 with really difficult dark things in their lives, and in 0:05:39.125 --> 0:05:42.565 a lot of ways, I think, here we go psychoanalyzing already. 0:05:42.605 --> 0:05:45.485 But it's healthy for kids to be able to see 0:05:45.525 --> 0:05:49.005 some of these darker things happening in this fairly safe 0:05:49.245 --> 0:05:51.925 environment of reading it in a story, in a magical 0:05:51.925 --> 0:05:55.005 story where generally there's a happy ending at the end. 0:05:55.325 --> 0:05:56.005 So I don't know. 0:05:56.085 --> 0:05:58.645 I mean, I think for me as a kid, I 0:05:58.845 --> 0:06:01.365 liked the dark things. I liked the creepy things. I 0:06:01.525 --> 0:06:04.525 liked the blood and gore. And I don't know if 0:06:04.565 --> 0:06:07.245 at that age I felt like I was maybe pushing 0:06:07.325 --> 0:06:10.245 back against the culture that was telling me I was 0:06:10.285 --> 0:06:11.045 too young for it. 0:06:11.085 --> 0:06:12.765 I wasn't ready for it. If it was maybe a 0:06:12.805 --> 0:06:14.245 little bit of rebellion. 0:06:13.765 --> 0:06:16.685 In there, but yeah, I just thought they were really 0:06:16.725 --> 0:06:19.565 cool and interesting. Yeah. 0:06:19.645 --> 0:06:22.325 No, So I've been speaking with a lot of folkloreists 0:06:23.605 --> 0:06:26.605 because that's evidently a job you can have, and I 0:06:26.645 --> 0:06:27.685 definitely know that. 0:06:29.045 --> 0:06:35.885 Yeah, I know, I was, like I messed up, But so. 0:06:36.765 --> 0:06:40.565 That seems to be a very common theme, is like, 0:06:40.885 --> 0:06:43.285 you know, there's this idea that we have to protect children, 0:06:44.165 --> 0:06:47.405 but actually that's not what. You know, children are a 0:06:47.405 --> 0:06:49.805 lot stronger than we give them credit for, and these 0:06:49.845 --> 0:06:53.605 stories are a way of introducing them to these really 0:06:53.685 --> 0:06:55.765 hard things and these hard ideas. 0:06:56.365 --> 0:06:58.005 That's a safe way to do it, you know. 0:06:58.365 --> 0:07:03.725 Speaking though, of the original Cinderella with the stepsisters cutting 0:07:03.725 --> 0:07:06.125 off parts of their feet to like fit into the shoe, 0:07:06.845 --> 0:07:09.485 you mentioned that the idea for Cinder came to you 0:07:09.965 --> 0:07:13.205 in a dream where she like lost her leg, and 0:07:13.245 --> 0:07:16.685 I was wondering if that original Grim's Tale was any 0:07:16.725 --> 0:07:18.645 inspiration Forcender. 0:07:19.725 --> 0:07:20.085 Yeah. 0:07:20.165 --> 0:07:24.525 I mean, who knows how our subconscious works, but yeah, 0:07:24.605 --> 0:07:29.045 I definitely by that point had read the Grim version, 0:07:29.165 --> 0:07:33.685 had read Charles Barrow had read a translation of Yashen, 0:07:33.845 --> 0:07:36.845 the Chinese version of Cinderella, from like way before the 0:07:36.845 --> 0:07:37.525 Grim Brothers. 0:07:37.765 --> 0:07:41.285 So yeah, I mean I had a lot of source. 0:07:41.125 --> 0:07:44.365 Material floating around in my brain by the time I 0:07:44.445 --> 0:07:48.085 had that dream, and I had been thinking about fairy tales, 0:07:48.125 --> 0:07:51.165 and I had had the idea for a few months 0:07:51.285 --> 0:07:54.645 that I wanted to write a series of science fiction 0:07:54.765 --> 0:07:57.805 fairy tale retellings, and so that was just kind of 0:07:57.845 --> 0:08:01.125 in my brain and something I'd been you know, brainstorming 0:08:01.165 --> 0:08:04.245 and considering what fairy tales would I do and what 0:08:04.245 --> 0:08:05.925 would that look like in this kind of you know, 0:08:06.085 --> 0:08:10.285 high tech futuristic setting, but things hadn't really started to 0:08:10.445 --> 0:08:15.605 come together into a cohesive story yet. And then, yeah, 0:08:15.645 --> 0:08:19.445 I had that dream about Cinderella. And the dream, as 0:08:19.485 --> 0:08:23.565 I remember, it was very traditional, very Disney Cinderella, like 0:08:23.605 --> 0:08:25.925 big ball gown and she's running away from the castle 0:08:25.965 --> 0:08:28.165 and all of this, and then she tripped on the 0:08:28.205 --> 0:08:31.005 steps and her foot fell off, And when I woke up, 0:08:31.085 --> 0:08:33.965 my first thought was that she was a cyborg and 0:08:34.165 --> 0:08:39.165 it was this like robotic foot that hadn't been properly attached, 0:08:39.245 --> 0:08:42.765 and that's that's how it fell off, and that became Cinder. 0:08:43.045 --> 0:08:44.645 And what's great. 0:08:44.685 --> 0:08:46.965 And I love brain science, and I wish I knew, 0:08:47.085 --> 0:08:50.285 like really understood how brains work, because I'm just fascinated 0:08:50.325 --> 0:08:54.845 by them. But clearly I can almost like see how 0:08:54.965 --> 0:08:57.685 all of these ideas had been jumbling around in my 0:08:57.805 --> 0:09:01.365 brain and just like waiting for that one one thing 0:09:01.445 --> 0:09:03.605 to start bringing them all together. Because as soon as 0:09:03.645 --> 0:09:07.845 I had that idea about doing Cinderella as a cyborg, 0:09:08.965 --> 0:09:12.125 all of these other ideas that I'd been brainstorming and 0:09:12.165 --> 0:09:14.805 working on for months just started to fall into place, 0:09:14.925 --> 0:09:17.485 and I could start to see Cinder and her character 0:09:17.645 --> 0:09:21.605 in her world and how over the course of multiple 0:09:21.605 --> 0:09:24.845 books she was going to gather around this like ragtag 0:09:24.925 --> 0:09:27.885 group of fairy tale characters and they were gonna have 0:09:27.965 --> 0:09:30.845 to go off and save the world and start a 0:09:30.845 --> 0:09:34.645 revolution and it would it really just like grew from 0:09:34.685 --> 0:09:36.125 that seed very quickly. 0:09:37.045 --> 0:09:38.885 So yeah, that's that's how it happened. 0:09:41.725 --> 0:09:43.845 So I want to talk about this series a little bit, 0:09:44.325 --> 0:09:47.165 but for our listeners who don't know, the Lunar Chronicles 0:09:47.365 --> 0:09:49.685 is a series of predominantly four books, I know you 0:09:49.725 --> 0:09:52.365 have a few others in there now that follow a 0:09:52.445 --> 0:09:56.565 journey of revolution and mystery and romance through the retellings 0:09:56.605 --> 0:10:00.525 of Cinderella, Little Red, Riding Hood, Rapunzel, and snow White. 0:10:01.485 --> 0:10:04.885 So I know you mentioned, you know about how this 0:10:05.005 --> 0:10:08.725 drag tag group of fairy tale creatures get together and 0:10:08.765 --> 0:10:12.005 everyone's like helping sender and figure things out. But how 0:10:12.045 --> 0:10:15.205 did you decide that those were the retellings that you 0:10:15.245 --> 0:10:18.725 wanted to do, Like do they hold any meaning to 0:10:18.765 --> 0:10:19.725 you specifically? 0:10:20.645 --> 0:10:23.525 So the first thing when I decided I wanted to 0:10:23.565 --> 0:10:27.165 try to do a series of futuristic fairy tales, my 0:10:27.365 --> 0:10:29.645 first step was to make a list of my personal 0:10:29.645 --> 0:10:30.685 favorite fairy tales. 0:10:31.125 --> 0:10:32.085 And I don't know, there. 0:10:32.005 --> 0:10:36.725 Was maybe fifteen stories on that list, I'm not entirely sure, 0:10:37.645 --> 0:10:41.125 and just start throwing ideas at it. Like I remember 0:10:41.245 --> 0:10:44.165 rumpel Stiltskin was on the list, and I remember thinking, well, 0:10:44.165 --> 0:10:46.525 maybe he could be an android, or maybe he could 0:10:46.565 --> 0:10:49.085 be an alien from outer space, or you know, just 0:10:49.125 --> 0:10:51.845 like what do you do if it was Sleeping Beauty. 0:10:52.725 --> 0:10:56.885 Maybe she's asleep because she's like a cryogenic freezing chamber, 0:10:56.965 --> 0:11:00.325 and just trying to get ideas for it. The four 0:11:00.645 --> 0:11:03.365 fairy tales that I ended up going with were the 0:11:03.445 --> 0:11:04.725 ones that, like. 0:11:04.725 --> 0:11:05.245 For starters. 0:11:05.245 --> 0:11:07.645 I just felt like I had the best ideas for them, 0:11:07.725 --> 0:11:11.285 and I could more or less begin to see how 0:11:11.285 --> 0:11:14.325 they would fit into this science fiction genre. But then 0:11:14.405 --> 0:11:18.205 also once I had the idea for Cinder and Cinderella 0:11:18.245 --> 0:11:24.965 as a cyborg, then her story very quickly got tied 0:11:25.045 --> 0:11:27.285 up with this evil queen. And I knew the evil 0:11:27.325 --> 0:11:30.085 queen was going to be the evil queen from snow White, 0:11:30.285 --> 0:11:32.045 So of course snow White's going to be one of 0:11:32.045 --> 0:11:36.445 my fairy tales. And in those early planning stages, I 0:11:36.445 --> 0:11:39.965 could begin to see how this evil queen character had 0:11:40.005 --> 0:11:43.525 been meddling with the lives of these other characters, and 0:11:43.565 --> 0:11:46.285 I could see how she'd been messing with Little Red 0:11:46.325 --> 0:11:49.045 Riding Hood's life, how she'd been messing with Rapunzel's life, 0:11:49.045 --> 0:11:53.485 of course her stepdaughter snow White. And so from very 0:11:53.485 --> 0:11:55.245 early on, I could start to see how these four 0:11:55.325 --> 0:11:59.365 stories were going to connect, not so much with Cinder, 0:11:59.725 --> 0:12:02.445 but really a lot of it revolved around that evil 0:12:02.525 --> 0:12:05.085 queen and what she was doing, and why were these 0:12:05.165 --> 0:12:08.685 character is going to hate her to the degree where 0:12:08.685 --> 0:12:10.805 they would actually put their lives on the line to 0:12:11.485 --> 0:12:12.525 try to fight against her. 0:12:14.365 --> 0:12:18.485 So you drew inspiration from lunar chronicles, from fairy tales 0:12:18.525 --> 0:12:21.445 of course, right, But you also mention like Star Wars 0:12:21.525 --> 0:12:25.565 and Firefly, which I love Firefly. But you also did research, 0:12:25.645 --> 0:12:29.605 like you did some heavy research, reading like scientific magazines 0:12:29.765 --> 0:12:33.245 and all of that. Because while these books are like 0:12:33.325 --> 0:12:36.965 fairy tale retellings, they're very much sci fi. What elements 0:12:36.965 --> 0:12:40.045 do you think align the genres of fairy tale and 0:12:40.085 --> 0:12:44.445 sci fi? Because initially they seem like very opposite. 0:12:44.005 --> 0:12:45.405 Ends right of the spectrum. 0:12:45.845 --> 0:12:49.485 But yet you were able to take these two genres 0:12:49.765 --> 0:12:52.405 and I mean it worked wonderfully, right. 0:12:52.485 --> 0:12:54.205 I mean, the proof is in the pudding, so they. 0:12:54.045 --> 0:12:57.645 Say, so, I think the biggest thing is good versus evil, 0:12:57.885 --> 0:13:01.525 which you see in Cinderella versus the Wicked Witch, and 0:13:01.605 --> 0:13:04.445 you see in Little Ren versus the big bad Wolf, 0:13:05.125 --> 0:13:05.845 and you. 0:13:05.725 --> 0:13:08.405 See in Luke versus you know. 0:13:08.365 --> 0:13:11.485 The Emperor, and you know, so that's that's I think 0:13:11.525 --> 0:13:13.885 the biggest thing that kind of ties the two together 0:13:13.925 --> 0:13:16.045 and ties lots of genres together. Of course, it's it's 0:13:16.085 --> 0:13:19.405 certainly not just these two, but those are pretty universal 0:13:19.445 --> 0:13:23.205 themes and things that we can all get on board with, Like, 0:13:23.245 --> 0:13:26.325 of course we want good to fight evil, but it's also, 0:13:26.525 --> 0:13:28.245 I mean, you've seen it in fairy tales and you 0:13:28.285 --> 0:13:30.805 see it in sci fi, where, even though that is 0:13:30.845 --> 0:13:35.805 so often the overarching theme, we also get to dig 0:13:35.845 --> 0:13:38.965 in and explore those gray areas what is good and 0:13:39.005 --> 0:13:42.125 what is evil and what happens when those two things 0:13:42.125 --> 0:13:45.605 are not clear cut, and so I love playing with 0:13:45.645 --> 0:13:46.725 those as a as a writer. 0:13:47.045 --> 0:13:50.965 So, so, what do you think it says mixing fairy 0:13:50.965 --> 0:13:52.605 tales with science fiction? 0:13:55.085 --> 0:13:56.285 It says that I'm a nerd. 0:14:00.605 --> 0:14:05.725 Fair. Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm curious about a lot 0:14:05.805 --> 0:14:08.045 of things, and you know, in the writing world, we're 0:14:08.085 --> 0:14:11.285 always here to write what you know, and I hate 0:14:11.285 --> 0:14:11.925 that advice. 0:14:12.205 --> 0:14:15.165 My go to is to write what I'm curious about. 0:14:15.885 --> 0:14:18.405 And I think this is stuff is cool. 0:14:18.485 --> 0:14:20.845 I think the idea that we could colonize the Moon 0:14:21.085 --> 0:14:23.845 and like to know that there are scientists trying to 0:14:23.885 --> 0:14:25.925 figure out how we might do that, that that's an 0:14:25.965 --> 0:14:28.885 actual thing people are working on. I think that's fascinating. 0:14:29.205 --> 0:14:32.405 Cybernetics and artificial intelligence and all of this. 0:14:32.565 --> 0:14:36.565 I just find it engrossing. So, yeah, I being. 0:14:36.325 --> 0:14:40.845 A fan of Star Wars and Firefly, having that in 0:14:40.885 --> 0:14:43.645 my background, I wanted to give my own twist to 0:14:43.685 --> 0:14:46.565 the sci fi genre or the space opera genre, and 0:14:46.845 --> 0:14:47.765 this is what it came to. 0:14:49.965 --> 0:14:52.485 Do you think that part of that is because that's 0:14:52.525 --> 0:14:55.285 maybe where like you see us going, Because a lot 0:14:55.285 --> 0:14:59.765 of times fairy tales and our adaptations are reflections of 0:14:59.805 --> 0:15:03.885 you know, ourselves or society, and that is kind of 0:15:04.245 --> 0:15:07.725 the main reason why I'm doing this show, because as 0:15:07.725 --> 0:15:09.885 time has gone on and all the different adaptations are 0:15:10.245 --> 0:15:14.365 basically snapshots of where society is. So you're not writing 0:15:14.405 --> 0:15:17.285 what you know, but the things that you're curious about. 0:15:17.365 --> 0:15:19.405 Do you think maybe down the road, these are places 0:15:19.445 --> 0:15:19.925 we're headed. 0:15:20.685 --> 0:15:23.685 It's funny, yes in some ways, and know in others, 0:15:24.085 --> 0:15:28.685 it's hilarious now that Cinder came out. Gosh, it's been 0:15:29.205 --> 0:15:32.485 twelve years since Cinder came out, and a lot of 0:15:32.525 --> 0:15:35.965 the technology that I was writing in the book that 0:15:36.085 --> 0:15:38.965 I thought, oh, i'm researching, you know, is where is 0:15:39.045 --> 0:15:41.845 science and technology going to be in one hundred years 0:15:41.845 --> 0:15:44.045 from now? And I'm trying to make it really authentic 0:15:44.125 --> 0:15:49.845 and believable and we've already surpassed him. It's like, wait, no, 0:15:50.125 --> 0:15:53.805 slow down, world. There's things like that that I tried 0:15:54.045 --> 0:15:58.605 hard not to like ever specify this is how far 0:15:58.645 --> 0:16:01.765 into the future it is because we just don't know 0:16:01.885 --> 0:16:06.085 the way that technology is surpassing certainly my expects on 0:16:06.285 --> 0:16:08.365 a very very speedy manner. 0:16:09.085 --> 0:16:11.165 At the same time, there are things that I hope for. 0:16:11.245 --> 0:16:14.485 I mean, one of the biggest I don't know fantasies 0:16:14.645 --> 0:16:18.725 I guess in the series is that even though there's 0:16:18.805 --> 0:16:22.405 this evil queen who lives on the Moon and is likery, 0:16:22.685 --> 0:16:24.765 is doing bad stuff and is trying to take over 0:16:24.965 --> 0:16:28.925 Planet Earth, planet Earth itself is in a pretty good 0:16:28.925 --> 0:16:32.325 place in this series, like it has seen world peace 0:16:32.445 --> 0:16:33.685 for more than a century. 0:16:34.685 --> 0:16:36.125 And I love this. 0:16:36.125 --> 0:16:41.205 Idea and I am hopelessly optimistic, and I know that 0:16:41.325 --> 0:16:45.245 people call it naivete, but I like to think that 0:16:45.285 --> 0:16:48.405 we could come to a place where we actually find 0:16:48.485 --> 0:16:52.325 peace on this planet and find a way to not 0:16:52.485 --> 0:16:56.485 have wars and you know, remove prejudice and all of 0:16:56.525 --> 0:16:58.525 these things that plague society today. 0:16:58.605 --> 0:17:01.125 So I like to think that maybe we are hitting 0:17:01.125 --> 0:17:01.725 in that direction. 0:17:03.165 --> 0:17:16.405 We'll be right back with Marissa Meyer. So author Marissa 0:17:16.525 --> 0:17:19.925 Meyer and I were talking about her Center series, where 0:17:19.965 --> 0:17:24.005 she combined four fairy tales and science fiction to make 0:17:24.045 --> 0:17:28.565 a whole new universe. I'm curious when it comes to 0:17:29.205 --> 0:17:33.845 the character development and some of the tension everything the conflicts, 0:17:33.965 --> 0:17:36.885 do those stem from like personal experience or like, how 0:17:36.965 --> 0:17:40.205 much of that might stem from personal experience? Right, Oh, 0:17:40.245 --> 0:17:43.045 got much of yourself as in these characters or in 0:17:43.085 --> 0:17:43.925 these conflicts? 0:17:44.205 --> 0:17:45.085 It varies. 0:17:45.365 --> 0:17:48.525 There's some characters that I relate to really strongly and 0:17:48.565 --> 0:17:51.565 I put a lot of myself into, and then there's 0:17:51.685 --> 0:17:54.805 characters that I don't see myself in so much, but 0:17:54.925 --> 0:17:57.805 that I really admire. A lot of times I'll write 0:17:57.845 --> 0:18:03.765 a character, a protagonist in particular, who has characteristics that 0:18:03.885 --> 0:18:07.085 I wish that I had Maura, or I think are 0:18:07.125 --> 0:18:10.565 just really cool and impressive, or they have skills that. 0:18:10.565 --> 0:18:13.045 I really admire, and so there's a lot of that. 0:18:13.085 --> 0:18:15.485 It's kind of a little bit of wish fulfillment when 0:18:15.525 --> 0:18:18.685 I'm writing and creating these characters. And then as far 0:18:18.685 --> 0:18:24.165 as the conflicts, I've lived a fairly low conflict life, 0:18:25.445 --> 0:18:29.885 and like there's no big revolutions, no big wars, but 0:18:30.165 --> 0:18:34.125 a lot of the internal conflicts you're still facing. And 0:18:34.205 --> 0:18:36.805 so a lot of times we can take things that 0:18:36.885 --> 0:18:41.885 we feel on a small level and then you put 0:18:41.885 --> 0:18:46.245 them into these characters who are experiencing really big, life changing, 0:18:46.485 --> 0:18:50.805 world changing events, and they're experiencing the same emotions just 0:18:50.885 --> 0:18:53.485 in a bigger way. So an example of that might 0:18:53.525 --> 0:18:56.845 be something like periods of my life where I've faced 0:18:56.845 --> 0:19:00.645 imposter syndrome and felt like, you know, you question yourself, 0:19:00.645 --> 0:19:03.245 you doubt yourself. I think I'm a good person, but 0:19:03.885 --> 0:19:06.325 there was that one time I said that really mean thing, 0:19:06.605 --> 0:19:08.645 So maybe I'm not as good as I think. Like 0:19:08.685 --> 0:19:11.245 we've all had those moments. And then you have a 0:19:11.325 --> 0:19:15.045 character like Cinder who's trying to you know, lead this 0:19:15.125 --> 0:19:18.645 revolution and take down this evil queen and she's facing 0:19:18.685 --> 0:19:21.485 really big things, but she still has these internal conflicts 0:19:21.525 --> 0:19:24.245 with herself where she's wondering like, I think I'm a 0:19:24.245 --> 0:19:26.165 good person and I think I'm doing the right thing, 0:19:27.005 --> 0:19:31.125 but also I know that I there's moments where I've 0:19:31.125 --> 0:19:33.925 felt a little power hungry, and there's moments where I've 0:19:34.165 --> 0:19:37.005 done things I wasn't thrilled that I did, and so 0:19:37.245 --> 0:19:39.125 maybe I'm not a good person after all. And so 0:19:39.245 --> 0:19:44.845 you can, you know, use the personal experiences to then 0:19:45.365 --> 0:19:47.925 inspire what the character is going through and hopefully write 0:19:47.925 --> 0:19:50.645 those emotions in a way that readers can really relate 0:19:50.645 --> 0:19:52.645 to even though readers are like, well, I don't know 0:19:52.725 --> 0:19:54.805 what I would do in that situation either. 0:19:57.165 --> 0:19:57.485 Yeah. 0:19:57.645 --> 0:20:00.565 No, that's the thing is like being human, we all 0:20:00.925 --> 0:20:04.285 have these similar experiences, right, It's just like, but to 0:20:04.365 --> 0:20:06.645 like what degree or to what I extent or any 0:20:06.645 --> 0:20:08.165 of that. But I also think that's why I like, 0:20:08.245 --> 0:20:11.445 you know, people love reading and characters. 0:20:11.485 --> 0:20:14.245 They always see some parts of themselves within them. So 0:20:14.645 --> 0:20:17.805 I'm going to like just give her listeners quick heads up. 0:20:17.845 --> 0:20:19.805 There is a little bit of a spoiler for the 0:20:19.885 --> 0:20:22.205 end of the Lunar Chronicles here, because I accidentally did 0:20:22.245 --> 0:20:25.125 a spoiler the other day and someone was not very 0:20:25.165 --> 0:20:28.085 happy with me. One of the folklores I spoke with. 0:20:28.205 --> 0:20:31.245 Her name is doctor Gina Jorgensen, as she's another guest 0:20:31.285 --> 0:20:34.365 on the show. But we are discussing about how in 0:20:34.445 --> 0:20:38.205 these original fairy tales, the end goal essentially was for 0:20:38.405 --> 0:20:41.725 these women to get married, and that was their happy ending, right, 0:20:41.765 --> 0:20:46.125 that was They've made it, They're successful, that's it. However, 0:20:46.645 --> 0:20:50.565 and the Lunar Chronicles, Sinder decides to say on Luna 0:20:50.645 --> 0:20:53.045 to help the country get back on its feet. First, 0:20:53.605 --> 0:20:56.885 then she tells Prince Kai, who is the Prince of 0:20:56.925 --> 0:20:59.685 the book that you know she'd be happy to come 0:20:59.805 --> 0:21:03.445 and meet him later. I'm curious, what was your reasoning 0:21:03.645 --> 0:21:08.445 behind that ending? It's not the atypical for Cinderella. 0:21:08.685 --> 0:21:09.045 Yeah. 0:21:09.125 --> 0:21:14.205 So, of course, if we think why in historically in 0:21:14.285 --> 0:21:19.365 fairy tales, why was the ending get married, find a prince, 0:21:19.365 --> 0:21:22.445 get married, live happily ever after. And of course, through 0:21:22.485 --> 0:21:26.445 most of human history women had so little power, and 0:21:26.765 --> 0:21:30.765 one of the few ways a woman could be cared 0:21:30.845 --> 0:21:34.045 for and know that she didn't have to worry about 0:21:34.445 --> 0:21:36.085 am I going to eat? And am I going to 0:21:36.165 --> 0:21:39.405 have shelter and like these basic human needs was to 0:21:39.445 --> 0:21:42.565 find a husband and fingers crossed, he's a nice guy. 0:21:43.005 --> 0:21:44.205 And so it makes a lot. 0:21:44.165 --> 0:21:47.285 Of sense that for so much of history that was 0:21:47.365 --> 0:21:50.285 the focus for a lot of these fairy tales. Well, 0:21:50.365 --> 0:21:54.245 nowadays this is not, you know, the be all end all. 0:21:54.365 --> 0:21:57.125 We can have a career, we can make our own money, 0:21:57.165 --> 0:21:59.765 we can buy our own homes and run our own businesses, 0:21:59.925 --> 0:22:04.605