1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: So I was such a nerd and I did model 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: you in, and I was on the yearbook staff, and 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: then I was the editor of the yearbook. I went 4 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: to math camp when I was a kid, did here, 5 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: Yes I did, I know, And I have this vivid memory. 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Actually during the two thousand I think it was during 7 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: the two thousand and eight campaign, I was campaigning. I 8 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: can't remember actually I was campaigning for my mom or 9 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: later for President Obama. But I was somewhere and all 10 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I was like shaking someone's hand. I 11 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: was saying, like, oh, you know, please don't forget to vote. 12 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: And this guy was like, we were in math camp together. 13 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: We did the unit on fractals together at the campaign staff. 14 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, she's like even more 15 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: of a nerd than we thought she was already. I 16 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: was like, yes, I did. I went to math camp 17 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 1: and yearbook camp and language camp and model you in 18 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: and I did all sorts of nerdy thing. You did 19 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: all the camps. Hello, I'm Mini driver and welcome to 20 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: many questions. I've always loved Prius question ap It was 21 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: originally an eighteenth century polor game meant to reveal an 22 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: individual's true nature, But with so many questions and there 23 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So I 24 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: took the format of Proof's questionnaire and adapted What I 25 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: think are seven of the most important questions you could 26 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: ever ask someone. They are when and where were you happiest? 27 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: What is the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, 28 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would 29 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: you most like answered, What person, place, or experience has 30 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: shaped you the most? What would be your last meal? 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: And can you tell me something in your life that 32 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: has grown out of a personal disaster. The more people 33 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: we ask, the more we begin to see what makes 34 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: us similar and what makes us individual. I've gathered a 35 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: group of really remarkable people who I am honored and 36 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: humbled to have had a chance to engage with today. 37 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: My guest is Chelsea Clinton, one of the most multidimensional 38 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: people I've had the pleasure of speaking to. And as 39 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: someone who studied acting as opposed to going to a 40 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: traditional university, I am always inspired by true academics. What 41 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: strikes me is even more impressive about Chelsea is that 42 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: with her doctor in international relations and her master's in 43 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: public health. She's carved out a space where her voice 44 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: and expertise can create real change in the world. There's 45 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: also a grace and a persistence with which she's explored 46 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: her influence outside of the towering presence of both her parents. 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: No mean feat. So I admit I just had a 48 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: moment which this is like so mortifying, but now I 49 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: have to have to say this because it was in 50 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: my head and I started to say it and I 51 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: was like, do I want to say it? And I 52 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: was like yes. I went on a date to Circle 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: of Friends many many years ago with very sweet Rory Aigan, 54 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: who was my high school boyfriend. But I think it 55 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: was like the second date we went on, so when 56 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: I was steering and I was like, oh my gosh, 57 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: I was like ricocheted backed going on a date at 58 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: the movie theater on Connecticut Avenue in Washington, d C. 59 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: I love that, you know that. I love that. That 60 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: is like a grandmother didn't memory. That's great, and like 61 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: we didn't share popcorn because I was like that felt 62 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: too awkward. He was like, do you want popcorn? And 63 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: I remember being like, no, we do I want popcorn. 64 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: What's the right romantic answer here? I was like a 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 1: very awkward teenager, so you know what, so was I, 66 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: which is what I think I got that part in 67 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: that film because I was just completely exactly what. I 68 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: was just kind of overgrown with mental hair and didn't 69 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: really know which way was up. So glad that was 70 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: your first date. You and Popcorn my boyfriend, who, by 71 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: the way, did model you end with you in New York? Yes, yes, 72 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: he did what music did. So I was Brazil and 73 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: Canada in different years. One year I was Brazil and 74 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: one year I was Canada or not not just me, 75 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: my my high school team. So you'll have to ask him, 76 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: does he remember? He didn't want me to mention it 77 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: at all, but now I have. But anyway, we got again. 78 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna get a to it. When and when were 79 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: you happiest. I'm happiest with my kids, I really am. 80 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 1: I'm happiest when my kids are laughing. I'm happiest when 81 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: my kids are like crawling all over me and tickling me. 82 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: I'm happiest when we are reading a book together or 83 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: baking together. We bake a lot, even pre pandemic. We 84 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: just have baked more in the pandemic, which is probably 85 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: not good. For any of us. It's been a lot 86 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: of fun, and we try to watch a family movie 87 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: every weekend um and I love listening to my kids, 88 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: and I've had these quite deep conversations about trolls or monsters, 89 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: inc Or most recently Ryan and the Last Dragon. Well, 90 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: my two older kids who are four and six, not 91 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: my youngest, who's one, who doesn't really stay still for 92 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: the family book reading or baking or movie watching. But 93 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: that's when I'm happiest. I'm happiest when I feel my 94 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: children's laughter fill my body and in my heart. Did 95 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: you enter sicipate that before you were a mother, did 96 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: you anticipate what that feeling of your children's laughter insidet 97 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: you would feel? Like? No, No, I mean like I 98 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: love my husband. We always knew that we'd hope to 99 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: have children. I was so excited to be a mom 100 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: when I was pregnant with all three of our children. 101 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: And yet this is gonna sound so crazy. I don't 102 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,559 Speaker 1: think I've actually ever said this in any public format, 103 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: But my husband Mark and I were watching that show 104 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: in the History Channel of the Vikings. I love that, 105 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: and right after Charlotte was supporting in the hospital like 106 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: in the operating room because I had to have an 107 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: emergency C section, and I had the sense of like, 108 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: if the Vikings come through here, I'm gonna get off 109 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: the table, even if my guts are literally like spilling 110 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: all over the place, and protect my child. And it 111 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: just it felt so primal. I love it, and I 112 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: was like, who is this person? I'm no fair? What 113 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: is this person that has just taken over my body? 114 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: You had a full Viking flashbang. I love the fact 115 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: that you were envisioning Vikings and that you would fight 116 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: the Vikings. I just say, if they were going to 117 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: come marauding through the operating room, I was ready. I 118 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: didn't know how I would be ready, but I was 119 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: ready to protect. And I was trying to explain this 120 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,239 Speaker 1: to my husband. He was like, what are you talking 121 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: about again? But I'm ready, And he was like, talking 122 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: about but I'm ready. I have my mace, I think 123 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: exactly under the table. I just felt like all of 124 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: a sudden I had become a mother and that this 125 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: was the most important part of my life and what 126 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: an extraordinary not only gift but new reality. I've been 127 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: given to love this little person and then to love 128 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: her brothers and so It's not what I'd anticipated, and 129 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: yet I could not imagine my life any other way. 130 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: Did he give context to the things that you were 131 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: already interested in? Yes? Yes. Did it make you want 132 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: to make the world a better place? Yes? And it 133 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: made me feel even more intensely about the things I 134 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: already felt strongly about, which I didn't know it was possible. 135 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: How frustrating it is actually this kind of sometimes conceit 136 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: of the young people will save us, right, Like why 137 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: do the young people have to save us? Like shouldn't 138 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: we be saving us so they don't have to? Yeah, 139 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: my job as a parent isn't to say, oh, congratulations, 140 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: here's the mess I left for you, but don't worry, 141 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: like I'm going to give me the duel to tackle 142 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: it and take this. Here's a dumpster fire for you, 143 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: good luck, I love for you, goodbye, But I'm going 144 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: to make you a really big, bright, sparkly sign on 145 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: the sideline. It's like cheering you on, like in a 146 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: helicopter around the dumpster file. Right, it's so perverse to me, 147 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: But it just everything got sharper and felt like more 148 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: urgency and energy and kind of a vibration of like, oh, 149 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: like I have to do this now, like I have 150 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: to write, I had to teach these classes. I have 151 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: to do this work. I have to try to help 152 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: people care. I have to get people focused on public health. 153 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: And now it's easier because we're in the midst of 154 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: a pandemic and all my friends are like, Oh, this 155 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: is what you do, this is why you've been talking 156 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: about for years. I know what an extraordinary lens as well? 157 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: Do they have a pandemic actually bring into even further 158 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: focused the work that you've been doing all your life 159 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: as an adults too suddenly go here, here it is illustrated, 160 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: laid out before you, and once again, you know, in 161 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: the same way that the Reagan administration refused to deal 162 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: with the HIV AIDS crisis, the same way the Trump 163 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: administration refused to admit that there was even a problem 164 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: with COVID nineteen and that it was going to somehow 165 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: disappear painful painful echoes. Because I remember where I was 166 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: when Magic Johnson talked about being HIV positive, and I 167 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: remember reading and then later watching the extraordinary movie that 168 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: came out of and the band played on, and I remember, 169 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: you know, trying to consume everything I could about act 170 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: up and just the deeply visceral residence of silence equals death. 171 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: And then I remember thinking I will never be there again, 172 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: right like, even though there's so many things that I 173 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: wish had been different, you know, at the New Year 174 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: of last year, I just never thought that you would 175 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: have had even under the Trump administration, an administration that 176 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: kind of had the echoes of the worst of the 177 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: Reagan era, of ignorance and dismissiveness and the discrediting of 178 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: kind of science and facts and the kind of wilful 179 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: trafficking and things that are so unscientific and not based 180 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: in facts. I know that you are a baker, will 181 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: be your lost mail. O good lord. I was a 182 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: vegetarian for many years. I gave up bread meat when 183 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: I was eleven, and I gave up all of meat 184 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: when I was thirteen. It was a little bit, a 185 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: little bit rebellion and a little bit motivated by cruelty 186 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: toward cattle and slaughterhouses and concerns about excess of red 187 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: meat on your body. But it would be totally disingenuous 188 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: if I didn't also just own that it was a 189 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: little bit rebellious, which all my friends were like this 190 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: is how you're rebelling. It was like such a rebel, 191 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: shall say that as the rebellion of somebody who goes 192 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: to math camp. I won't eat meat and I will 193 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: do fractals. Yeah, so you know, and I like, you know, 194 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: I had to give my mother all of these back 195 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: in the old days when you would you know, have 196 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: to write things out right out, like don't worry mom, 197 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: I know how to have a well balanced meal. But 198 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: for some reason, when I was twenty nine, I just 199 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: start to crave red meat. I don't know if that. 200 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: I was also running so much the time, so I 201 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: don't know if it was I needed the iron or 202 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: I needed the protein. And I'm a big believer in 203 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: listening to our bodies. And I don't eat a lot 204 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: of beatus. I'm still very mindful of the kind of 205 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: environmental effects, but I do I do love a really 206 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: good like flat iron steak or skirt steak or cheeseburger, 207 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: So I would probably have one of those, not all 208 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: of those. Can have a buy a full three maybe no, 209 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: well no no, because like I just and like a 210 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: really good arrugala salad is that for ring? And I 211 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: love broccoli, so there'd be some broccoli and some roasted 212 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: Brussels sprouts, and I would have to have a really 213 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: decadent piece of Maybe do you know I'm going to 214 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: not have a piece of cake. I'm gonna have dark 215 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: chocolate movese with some whipped cream on top. And I'm 216 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: going to have a really large espresso at the end 217 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: of the meal. Oh and I definitely. And I want 218 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: a glass of red wine during the meal. So I 219 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: want my glass of red wine. I want my steak. 220 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go steak, not cheeseborg I want my steak, 221 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: I want all my green vegetables. I want my chocolate 222 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: moves with my glass of red wine. And then I 223 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: want to have a big espresso and I hug for 224 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: my kids, and then I guess I can die happy. 225 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: If that's where this conversation is going. It's quite triggering 226 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: this question because you know your last meal, you know, 227 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,599 Speaker 1: before you get on the greyhound to go to Wyoming. 228 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, but last meal. It does sound like 229 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: you know it's your last meal before you're going to die. 230 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: But you were going to say a piece of what 231 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: you went for the chocolate movese, But you did say 232 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: I will have a huge piece of Yeah, I love 233 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: red velvet cake. I have a red velvet cake in 234 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: my refrige itater we made a few days ago. Well, 235 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: you can have the red velvet cake and cho Jessie 236 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: like this is an interesting I feel like you really, 237 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: even when you're given carte blash to have your your 238 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: still abstomust. I don't want to be even at the end, 239 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: right up to the end. She wasn't a glutton. She 240 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: only had the moves, she didn't have the cake. Let 241 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: it be known. That's a good epitaph. Can you just 242 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: tell me what flavor is red velvet? Because I don't understand. 243 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: In England we didn't have it. It seems to me 244 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: that it is just red food coloring in plain cake. 245 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: What's the flavor meant to be? There are quite intense. 246 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: Maybe that's opperstating it. Maybe it's just intense. If you 247 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: care about Southern Baby, I think they're very intense debates. 248 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: Then I think this really needs a little bit of 249 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: a few red velvet platforms. Aren't you just like red groups? 250 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: The origins of red velvet are a bit shrouded in mystery. 251 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: Some people say red velvet originated um beat sugar and 252 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: beat food coloring when sugar was expensive and harder to 253 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: come by, and beats or not, and so the red 254 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: color comes from beats. That is the best explanation I 255 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: have heard yet. That's what I had heard growing up. 256 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: I now know though that others say, no, Actually, it 257 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: was about the texture of the cake. It was the 258 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: texture of the cake that was velvety that if you 259 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: were using lighter chocolate kind of the light brown looked 260 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: a little red and red sounded more novel, and so 261 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: it was kind of marketed as red velvet cake even 262 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: before it had the color red. So that's some people's explanation. 263 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: So I don't want to go definitively like on this 264 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: because I'm now gonna have baking forms being like she 265 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: was not truthful about this. I don't think you are. 266 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: I think they're going to be happy that you're talking 267 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: about cake at all, because I know I am. I 268 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: think it doesn't get enough play. Well. So we love 269 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: the Great British Baking Show in our family, it's the 270 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: greatest show ever made. I think that it might be. 271 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: I think that it might be. Why couldn't they just 272 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: have made endless versions of that show to help us 273 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: through the last fourteen months, to give us like the joy. 274 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to Telly, but in England that did this 275 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: thing where they had celebrities on to bake people who 276 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: maybe have never baked before, and it was all for 277 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: stand up to cancer. I've heard my English friends have 278 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: really they haven't been very kind and like rubbing it 279 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: in my face. They have had a lot more content. 280 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: It's been the best thing about being in England. There 281 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: is a lot more bake off. What person, place, or 282 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: experience has most altered your life, Well, probably the honest 283 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: answer is when my father won the election and we 284 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: moved to Washington, d C. When you moved from little 285 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: Rok to d C, did things become sacrisancs? Did you 286 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: take things with you that made it home, that made 287 00:14:54,840 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: this transition somehow easier or made it more familiar completely. 288 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: One of the things I'm so thankful to my parents 289 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: for doing is there were very much the rhythms of 290 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: our life and that we still had family dinner every night, 291 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: so that was very sacrisaying time. Even if my parents 292 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: had to go out to an event, or if my 293 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: father had to go back to the Oval office, he 294 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: would come home, my parents would come home. We had 295 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: dinner every night together. We went to church on Sundays, 296 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: and we had family lunch after church. That also was 297 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: really sacrisying family tradition and all of that translated. I 298 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: grew up playing just huge numbers of games with my 299 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: parents and with my grandparents, my uncle's and we I 300 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: think played games every week, if not kind of more frequently, 301 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: card games, board games, depending on how we're all feeling. 302 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: Sometimes tarades, I mean, just we had so many games. 303 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: When my father won is probably the event in my 304 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: life that externally most kind of influenced my life, but 305 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: certainly internally what most influenced my life was when I 306 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: became a mother. Oh yeah, I often won about the 307 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: parallel life if I hadn't had henry of carrying on 308 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: doing and exploring the things all that I'm interested in 309 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: a living what can't help but be a fairly sort 310 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: of selfish life in terms of just living for yourself 311 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: with no dependence. But I wonder what else would have 312 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: filled that space, Because once you know what that feeling 313 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: is to love a child, once you have had that 314 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: explosion inside, it's hard to imagine like what it would 315 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: have been like without them, I can't my imagination fails. 316 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: I just I can't. I can't see it. Like, I 317 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: don't know what happens to me after when I became 318 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: a mom. It's just empty. And I have a pretty 319 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: good imagination, Like I make up magical stories every night 320 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: for my kids. Do you. Yeah, we have Maya the Dragon, 321 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: the Blue Dragon, We have Cadrew the Penguin. We have 322 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: all sorts of characters in our kind of magical menagerie. 323 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: My dad used to tell me my sister the story 324 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: about Charlie the Fox, which we now embellish. I mean, 325 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: this fox has really been through the ring at this point, 326 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: because we add an embellished. But but he's still here, right, 327 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: Charlie Fox has survived. Oh yeah he was. He was survived, 328 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: but he's lost most of his tail at this point 329 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: because the grounds now getting his tail off. They didn't 330 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: use to, but they get it now. God, what does 331 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: that say about our world? You know what? That you 332 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: can still carry on without a tail? Yeah? Who needs it? 333 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: But do you remember back to your pre children days? Totally? 334 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: I remember pre children, But I can't imagine life without 335 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: my kids. Yeah, because the vikings really and just the 336 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: love that I just felt like I could feel my 337 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: heart in a way like I remember when I went 338 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: through puberty and like I would have a crush and 339 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: a boy and I already you know, told you I 340 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: went on a date to your movie Circle of Friends. 341 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: So I remember feeling like, oh, like flutters and overwhelmed 342 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: and happy when my husband proposed to me. And so 343 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: I felt connected to this organ. But it really wasn't 344 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: until I met Charlotte, our our first child. I was like, Oh, 345 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: this is a this organ that I could feel when 346 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big runner, so like when I was 347 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: going for longer distances or running really fast, and I 348 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: of course could feel my heart beating quite literally, but 349 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: I just felt like, oh, that's what else you're for. 350 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: And have you read that book Born to Run by 351 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: Christopher McDougall. Yes, my dad gave me that book because 352 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: he reads it seemingly like everything the day after it 353 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: comes out. Gave it to me probably like two weeks 354 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: after it came out. Was like, I thought, of you, 355 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: did you get rid of your big, chunky Nike running 356 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: shoes and get some minimalist sandals, because I did so, 357 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: I didn't try the running sandals, but I did try 358 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: like the very thin running shoes, and I just I'm 359 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: not proud, but I my feet hurt. I was trying 360 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: to think of like a more elegant way to say 361 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: that my feet hurt. So I went back to my 362 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: more kind of clunky shoes that my feet don't hurt. Wow. 363 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: Using do you run to get away from stuff or 364 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: do you run for health rees or a mixture of both. 365 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: So I run, yes, absolutely, because you know, I think 366 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: it's important to exercise and like good for my health. 367 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: I also run, though very much for my mental health. 368 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: That is the time when I disconnect. It's the time 369 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: when I get closest to what I would think of 370 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: as meditating, where my brain really kind of clears out. 371 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: And when i'm going, especially for longer runs, in the 372 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: first half of my run, I will listen to music 373 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: or I listen to a podcast, and then I always, 374 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: at least I try unless I'm like totally enwrapped or 375 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: whenever I'm listening to stop stop listening about halfway through 376 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: my run to force myself to kind of be in 377 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: that silence of my own mind. How far to you 378 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: run totally depends on how much time I have, does it, Yeah, totally. 379 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: So if if I can like wake up early and 380 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: I have time, I can go for a longer run. 381 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: But oftentimes I have like forty minutes, so I get changed, 382 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: I run like, you know, three and a half miles, 383 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: I come back, and I kind of go back to 384 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: my day. So it just really depends on how much 385 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: time I have. Before I became a parent, I often 386 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: would run at night. Would yeah, I mean, but with 387 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: like reflectors, I was safe. I would safe. I always 388 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: feel like I have because my my poor mother would 389 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: be like, you need to call me when you get home, 390 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: and I would be like, I'm thirty two, I've been 391 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: running at night for a long time, Like I know 392 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: how to keep myself safe. Also I'm married, Like you're 393 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: gonna know if I if I don't come home, like 394 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 1: Mark will call you. And she would be like, I 395 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: just you'll understand one day when you're a mother, And 396 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: sure enough, I now do. So I used to run 397 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: a lot at night, and I used to actually love 398 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: to run later at night, as kind of creepy as 399 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: that may sound, because New York City would just be quieter. 400 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: And in the same way, I would love to run 401 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: like very early in the morning. Also, Mom, if you're 402 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: listening like with lectures on like very safe on the 403 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: West Side Highway and not on the roads, do you 404 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: think it's because there's a lot in your life. There's 405 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: this huge public persona, but all of the work that 406 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: you do and teaching and a marriage and children, and 407 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: it makes perfect sense to me to go early or 408 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: late at night to find the quietest moment, to find 409 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: the quietest moment in yourself would be exactly what you 410 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: would need. So I don't go at night any longer, 411 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: but I do go early in the morning when I can, 412 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: and I largely just don't go at nate because sometimes 413 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: your kids wake up and I want to be here 414 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: if they wake up, So I always be like, oh, 415 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: I can go in the morning. It's okay, yeah, I 416 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: mean your kids a little So it's all those considerations. 417 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: It's finny you'll find you'll reach a point where they're 418 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: older and then suddenly you'll be like, oh, it's eleven PM. 419 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: They're going to go into a ten K They're going 420 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: to be teenagers and a sleep. Because I do the 421 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: same thing, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't 422 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: have to worry about like, if he wakes up, he'll 423 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,239 Speaker 1: just go back to sleep. He'll be fine. Word right now, 424 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: my kids wake up, they've had a nightmare. They need 425 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: a glass of water, to care about Petro the penguin. 426 00:21:51,760 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: And it's lovely. Enjoy every second of it. What's the 427 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: quality that you least like about yourself? Oh? I least 428 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: like my perfectionism. I really am hoping that maybe in 429 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: this decade, my fifth decade on planet Earth, I will 430 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: be able to possibly mature out of it. How does 431 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: it negatively affect you personally? You being a perfectionist, I 432 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: would say in two ways. It creates a lot of 433 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: anxiety and then inefficiency when I am obsessing over which 434 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: word is going to be most perfect, when actually both 435 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: words and something I'm writing are probably like equally good. 436 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: So it's not my persistence to finish what I start 437 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: and do the best that I can those I think 438 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: are good qualities. But it's sometimes the fact that I 439 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: fall into thinking like, oh, it doesn't just have to 440 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: be best or excellent, very good. It something has to 441 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: be perfect. But often what I'm thinking of is perfect 442 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: is a morphous Oh totally, there's no there there, right, 443 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: It's just like this spinning that is just not helpful 444 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: or actually ultimately productive, unlike the drive to excellence and 445 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: thankfully the inborn and I think kind of nurtured persistence 446 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: in the sense that you really have to finish what 447 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: you start, and kind of what my grandmother always called 448 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: the ministry of showing up in life for our friends, 449 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: the cause we believe in, but also for ourselves. Those 450 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: are all good things, but perfectionism is not good. I 451 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: found it quite hard to teach that with my son, 452 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: but it's kind of that notion of go for excellence, 453 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: to do your best, to not give up. And it's 454 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: funny because I feel like maybe because of what he's 455 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: observed of how I interact and suffer from the same thing, 456 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: which is too much attention to detail when actually it 457 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: should let a little bit more go. And he then 458 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: funnels that into this idea of what really trying, really 459 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: hard at something is. And I've noticed this perfectionism exactly 460 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: what you're talking about, and I realized that I've been 461 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: demonstrating it. And we actually had a conversation on the 462 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: night about it where I was like, I'm failing at 463 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: being perfect and it's a good thing, and it's a 464 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: really important nuance and and I don't know how to 465 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: teach that either, but we are trying, and I don't 466 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: know we'll be successful, but at least with our kids, 467 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: were trying to distinguish between like your best and the best, 468 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: because because what does it mean like to be the best? Right? 469 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: But you need to do your best. We care a 470 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: lot that you try hard, and we talk a lot 471 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: with our kids about how the most important things in 472 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: life are to be brave and to be kind, because 473 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: I think if you're brave and you're kind, you're going 474 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: to be a good person. You're going to be a 475 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: good person to yourself, You're going to be a good 476 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: person to your siblings, to our family, kind of community, 477 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: the world. So I don't know if kind of this 478 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: distinction between you were best and the best will will work, 479 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: but I hope it will because I don't want I 480 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: don't want my kids to emulate this. And when I'm 481 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: like rereading something for truly the seventeenth time, and like, 482 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: probably it needed to be reread three times the next 483 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: fourteen times, we're probably not necessary, I as a panic 484 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: in my voice goes up a little bit, and it 485 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: all just becomes a bit tight and it's really not 486 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: that important, like you said, the choice between two words 487 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: that really have fundamentally the same meaning and getting stressed 488 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: or demonstrating that stress. But maybe they also learned by 489 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: us catching ourselves and going, you know what that right there, 490 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: what you just saw, that was exactly what it isn't what? 491 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: That is exactly what I'm trying, you know, at fifty one, 492 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: trying to learn to do differently. So perhaps if we 493 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: pers if we catch ourselves as we're doing it, it teaches. Yeah, 494 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: And we do talk with our kids about how we 495 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: make mistakes. You know, sometimes they're really small mistakes, Like 496 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, back when we weren't in a pandemic, and 497 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: my husband said he was going to pick up the 498 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: dry cleaning on the way home, and like he forgot 499 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: to pick up the dry cleaning and I really wanted 500 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: to wear like this shirt the next day. And he's like, 501 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: oh god, I forgot to pick up the dry cleaning, 502 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know what, and I don't need 503 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: to wear that shirt. It was like a noyed for 504 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: like two seconds that I was like, it's really not 505 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: a big deal. God, I might have been annoyed for 506 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: a bit longer than that, I must I might still 507 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: be annoyed by that. Chelsea. As to tell you the truth, 508 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: if Addison didn't pick up the dry cleaning at the 509 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: shirt that I'm going to wear, right, you're a better 510 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: person off we go. But we would talk about that 511 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: our kids, like like, we make mistakes because we don't 512 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: want them to be self conscious about talking about those 513 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: mistakes with us. Whatever those mistakes. Maybe, yeah, exactly exactly. 514 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: It's how we love. It's by being forgiving of the 515 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: of the imperfections. Right. So the last question is in 516 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: your life, can you tell me about something that has 517 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: grown out of a personal disaster. I think I've been 518 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: really blessed. I can't really think of anything that's been 519 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: a personal disaster. I mean, there are things that have 520 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: been disappointing, their things that have been sad, but in 521 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: a professional sense. I took my first tour through graduate 522 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: school right after I finished Stanford, so I went straightaway 523 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: to Oxford. I knew that I was really interested in 524 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: global public health. I knew kind of exactly who I 525 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: wanted to study with. I thought about getting my doctorate 526 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: at the time, and I just had this sense of, oh, 527 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: my goodness, I'm going to wake up and be twenty eight, 528 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: which feels very old when you're twenty two and you're like, right, 529 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: which just be so old. And I'm going to know 530 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: so much about one thing, a really important thing, but 531 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: like one thing, and oh, I don't know if I 532 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,239 Speaker 1: want to do that. And so I went and I 533 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: worked in consulting, and then I worked on Wall Street 534 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: as an analyst, and then I went back and I 535 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: got my doctorate at you know, the ripe old age 536 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: of or thirty. I can remember now when I started 537 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: again in my PhD program, But I had this sense 538 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: of like, oh God, did I waste all this time? 539 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: And I spent a lot of time thinking like, oh gosh, 540 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: did I just take this major diversion from my kind 541 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: of academic, intellectual, professional personal passion around public health. But 542 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: I don't think so, because I think the time that 543 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,239 Speaker 1: I spent in consulting, the time that I spent as 544 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: an investment analyst, really helped me in my professional life. 545 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: And I don't think I was ready. I think I 546 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: would have been really lonely, because working on your dissertation 547 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: is really a lonely enterprise, like you're trying to do 548 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: something no one's done before. You spent a lot of 549 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: time researching and analyzing and writing. I spent hundreds, probably 550 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: thousands of hours alone. And I think if I had 551 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: done that, you know, a decade earlier, I think it 552 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: would have been a lot harder for me. So, you know, 553 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's like a succinct answer to 554 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: your question. It's an honest one, though, it's an honest one. Yeah, 555 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: you had the temerity to you know, you'd left, if 556 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: you're you're working as an analyst, then you're working on 557 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: wool Street, to then saying, you know, I'm going back 558 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: to walks, so I'm going to go back. Maybe you 559 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: know you had to do that in order to know that. Yeah, no, 560 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: I do want to go and spend hundreds of hours 561 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: by myself and explore this to the subject. And I 562 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: think the other answer to your question, though, when he 563 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: was like for a long time, I tried, Really, I 564 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: don't think I tried. I really was a very private person, 565 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: like in the public domain, where I was incredibly proud 566 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: of both my parents. I was incredibly proud to support 567 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: both my parents. I was incredibly proud to sort of 568 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: stand on a stage or sit on a stage behind them, 569 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: or kind of hand out stickers like American flags or signs. 570 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: I didn't, though, kind of see myself as as any 571 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: more than that. I didn't want to be any more 572 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: than that. And then, you know, in in two thousand 573 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: and eight, when my mom was running, and then later 574 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: when President Obama was running, I just felt like, oh, no, 575 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: I people are paying attention to me, whether I want 576 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: them to or not, Like I'm I'm I might as 577 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: well try to redirect that attention onto why so strongly 578 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: believe in and support my mom. And then later after 579 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: the campaign and after thankfully President Obama won and I 580 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: guess became President Obama, I tried to, you know, kind 581 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: of go back a bit more to being a private person, 582 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: and yet there still was just all this attention on me, 583 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: and I just had to then think again, like how 584 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: can I redirect it? It's here inevitably, like whether it's 585 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: the paparazzi following me around, or people wondering on cable 586 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: talk shows or in the pages of magazines or newspapers, 587 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: like what I think about things or kind of do 588 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: I have a view on something that kind of my 589 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: parents were doing, and so I just thought, well, largely 590 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: prompted by my grandmother consistently telling me that I had 591 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: a responsibility to do something kind of with this resource 592 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: I had been given, even if it wasn't one that 593 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: I necessarily wanted. It either could kind of be fallow 594 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: or it could be you know, put to good purpose. 595 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: So it didn't feel like my parents choices were a 596 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: disaster for me at all. Ever, Thankfully, it just felt 597 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: like that had happened to me. And that's not a 598 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: good place to be. It's much better to feel like, okay, 599 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: and then here is now what I am doing. I 600 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: am in the active part of it and not just 601 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: in the recipient of it. You embrace the agency, Yes, 602 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's about using the energy of 603 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: other people's decisions create circumstance in your life. What you 604 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: then do with it, how you choose to be creative 605 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: with the stuff that life is inevitably going to throw 606 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: at you is really what defines us. So how how 607 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: Berlyn that you did that. How brilliant to take something 608 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: and to turn it into something else. And again, it's 609 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things that I've heard you say 610 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: of that idea about regeneration and generating, to keep turning 611 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: it into something, to keep using their energy, to move 612 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: forward and to expand, because what else is there except 613 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: to keep reaching? Agreed? Agreed, Well, I am incredibly grateful 614 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: for your time. I know you're a very busy lady, 615 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: and thank you very very very much for coming on 616 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 1: the show. It's lovely hearing about your kids and and 617 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: you being a Viking mother is most most excellent. I 618 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: can concur Thanks so much, Chelsee, thank you so much. 619 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: Chelsea's podcast, In Fact, has new episodes out every Tuesday. 620 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: It's a podcast that takes a look into the world 621 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: of public health through shared stories. This week, Chelsea sits 622 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: down with three people who share a deep commitment to 623 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: environmental justice. Also check out her She Persisted series of 624 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: children's books as they are truly excellent. Mini Questions is 625 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: hosted and written by Me Mini Driver, supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, 626 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: Producer Morgan Lavoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry 627 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: Baby by Mini Driver, Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Executive 628 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: produced by Me and man Gesh Hettidor. Special thanks to 629 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson Addison, No Day Lisa Castella and 630 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: Annique Oppenheim at w kPr de La Pescadore, Kate Driver 631 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support Henry Driver,