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Speaker 1: I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News,

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Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg Crypto at Daily Bloomberg. I heard podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday, August four. If you're an avid online shopper,

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Speaker 1: you've probably been prompted to buy now pay later from

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Speaker 1: companies like Klarna or after Pay just as you're about

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Speaker 1: to hit by your offer. The option of paying in

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Speaker 1: installments rather than all at once, and often with the

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Speaker 1: promise of no interest on those payments. Digital by now

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Speaker 1: pay later options skyrocketed over the last several years, and

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Speaker 1: now b NPL has come for crypto through a decentralized

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Speaker 1: finance lender called Teller. Is this really a good idea?

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Speaker 1: Joining me now? Is Bloomberg reporter Mr Lena A golfer Pulo.

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Speaker 1: This is just another way for people to spend money

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Speaker 1: on How buy now, payleta fits into the crypto economy?

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Speaker 1: Mr really, welcome back. Thank you for having me. I

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Speaker 1: feel like whenever you come on the show, it's because

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Speaker 1: there's something happening in crypto that I probably should worry about.

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry. I mean, it's not your fault personally,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I was reading your story about by

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Speaker 1: Now pay Lata coming to n f T S, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, hmm, interesting time for this to be happening.

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Speaker 1: Before we jump into the crypto part of this, can

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Speaker 1: you just talk us through a little bit like what

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Speaker 1: by now pay leta is, particularly in this modern digital context. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the easiest way to describe it is like

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Speaker 1: a modern layaway option where you know, individuals who are

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Speaker 1: trying to purchase something that might be you know, a

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Speaker 1: big price tag on it, UM have the option through

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Speaker 1: these new companies that have come into the market to

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Speaker 1: pay an installment. Sometimes there's intra, sometimes there's not, depending

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Speaker 1: on what the price tag is. And so say, for example,

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Speaker 1: you want to buy a pair of shoes that costs

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Speaker 1: two ars, you can pick an option to pay with

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Speaker 1: by now pay Later, and so you'd pay you know,

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars now fifty dollars in two weeks, all the

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Speaker 1: way up until you pay UM your your your shoes off.

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Speaker 1: So what experts have warned recently about by Now Pay

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Speaker 1: Later is that it tends to make people overspend because

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Speaker 1: the money you're spending in that given moment in time

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Speaker 1: may not be enough, but over time you've basically borrowed,

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Speaker 1: You've taken a little loan on on something that you

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Speaker 1: can't necessarily afford, yet you're still purchasing. And there's there's

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Speaker 1: a you know, pro argument here as well. When you're

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with an inflationary environment like the one now

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Speaker 1: where everything just costs more, it's giving people away to

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Speaker 1: spend money um that they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

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Speaker 1: So it's sort of like a double edged sword, as

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Speaker 1: are so many things in finance. One of the criticisisms

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Speaker 1: that I've read about this is that you might have

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Speaker 1: a BNPL account at and after Pay, and another one

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Speaker 1: at Clarina, and another one like three or credit card company,

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Speaker 1: and there's no single dashboard that you can sort of

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Speaker 1: look at and see how much how much you owe?

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Speaker 1: Is that is that a kind of a common thing

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Speaker 1: that's happening. People are like, oh wow, I forgot that

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Speaker 1: I bought shoes over here and this furniture over here. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean if you're using one or more of these apps.

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Speaker 1: So so you're using a firm Clarina and after Pay,

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Speaker 1: you have different open loans on on all of them,

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Speaker 1: and you have to check, you know, what you owe

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Speaker 1: for each one of them individually, similarly to if you

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Speaker 1: have like multiple credit cards. So this is just another

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Speaker 1: way for people to spend money, um to to take

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Speaker 1: on debt. In some ways that doesn't feel like a

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Speaker 1: credit card um because oftentimes, again you don't have to

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Speaker 1: to pay interest. But you know, in the traditional banking world,

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Speaker 1: this is something that affects your credit score. So oftentimes

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Speaker 1: if you you know, keep purchasing through buy now, pay

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Speaker 1: later programs, you'll see your credit score take a hit.

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Speaker 1: It's not a massive hit, the same way you would

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Speaker 1: say if you had thousands of dollars in credit card debt,

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Speaker 1: but it does start to sort of, you know, bite

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Speaker 1: into your score. Everyone has taken out debt. It makes

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Speaker 1: sense rates are very very low. So my concern is

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Speaker 1: that when inflation comes back, and I think a misconception

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Speaker 1: globally in the markets that inflation as an economic phenomenon

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Speaker 1: is dead and buried. When it does come back, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna see some pain. Now we've talked about this in

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Speaker 1: kind of the context of your buying shoes, you're buying

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Speaker 1: furniture BNP L for n f T S. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't stress how awful the timing was for this announcement,

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Speaker 1: and we can, I guess, just even start by the

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Speaker 1: fact that this is something that's happening in the n

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Speaker 1: f T market, which was extremely hot last year. You know,

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Speaker 1: Board eight, yacht Club, Crypto Punks, all of those popular

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Speaker 1: n f T collections that came into the market and

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Speaker 1: really had people excited. That is not what you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not the vibe. I mean, we you know, we've

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Speaker 1: calculated that the floor price for some of these n

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Speaker 1: f T s has fallen since May, so numbers are down.

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Speaker 1: The interest is just isn't there. And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: just a byproduct of the so called crypto winter that

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Speaker 1: we're going through right now. Even so, this company's teller

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Speaker 1: announced that they are launching a buying out, pay later

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Speaker 1: option for n f T s that they very aptly

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Speaker 1: coined ape now pay later. Very catchy, very catchy um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's meant to function the same way

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Speaker 1: it does in traditional finance in some ways, where if

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Speaker 1: you want to buy an n f T you have

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Speaker 1: to put um of the total price down up front,

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Speaker 1: and then after that you can choose to pay in installments. Now,

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Speaker 1: for the companies we talked about before, the affirms, the climates, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: When I'm using them, I'm entering into a loan agreement

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Speaker 1: with a comp any. Am I entering into a loan

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Speaker 1: agreement with Teller? If I do this? Round? Is like,

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Speaker 1: how does this work? No? So that is I think

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Speaker 1: the main difference here is that what Teller is doing

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Speaker 1: is it's offering a marketplace where people who want to

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Speaker 1: lend money can enter and people who want to borrow

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Speaker 1: money money can enter. And so how this would work

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Speaker 1: is you would want to purchase an n f T

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Speaker 1: in installments, and there would have to be another person

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Speaker 1: on the other side that would be willing to become

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Speaker 1: the lender for you for that project. So it's an

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Speaker 1: individual to individual kind of transaction. It's one on one

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Speaker 1: UM And you know, I think that's what causes a

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Speaker 1: lot of maybe the red flags here because if um,

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Speaker 1: someone isn't able to pay back their loan, that falls

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Speaker 1: on a specific individual versus a company, and that protections

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Speaker 1: just wouldn't be there for that individual. And while the

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Speaker 1: company says that that individual can sort of do whatever

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Speaker 1: they need to do in order to determine the credit

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Speaker 1: worthiness of whatever person wants to buy an n f

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Speaker 1: T with um I'll pay later. It's hard to know.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to know. I mean, one way you could

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Speaker 1: potentially determine someone's credit worthiness in the crypto world is

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Speaker 1: just to look at their wallets and be able to

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Speaker 1: see how many assets they have in it. But that's

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Speaker 1: pretty much it. And again we're talking about an industry

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Speaker 1: that's based primarily on anonymity. No one really knows so

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Speaker 1: anyone is, and no one really knows what they actually

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Speaker 1: own or don't own. So it's a really tricky kind

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Speaker 1: of arrangement. Um. But again something that came to us,

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Speaker 1: you know, in this so called crypto winter, and we'll

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Speaker 1: just have to see how it goes. We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back with more from Bloomberg report to Mr Lena a

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Speaker 1: gulf of Polo on how buy Now pay Lata is

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Speaker 1: shaping the present of crypto. I also have a question about,

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Speaker 1: like where does the n f T come into this.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds to me like this is a marketplace

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Speaker 1: for money to buy n f T s, But in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, is there is teller also facilitating a relationship

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Speaker 1: with the seller of that n f T. Does the

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Speaker 1: n f T become transferred to you after the first

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Speaker 1: payment if you don't make the second payment, like, does

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Speaker 1: it go back to someone? Like what is that mechanic?

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Speaker 1: Do we know? Maya understanding is you purchase the n

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Speaker 1: f T put down and that is your n f

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Speaker 1: T afterwards, UM, if you're unable to make payments. That

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Speaker 1: is not something that was clearly laid out in their

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Speaker 1: press release announcement about how it would work, and I

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Speaker 1: assume it would have to be you know, a case

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Speaker 1: by case scenario. But they did team up with a

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Speaker 1: couple of different n f T collections that they say

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Speaker 1: they have UM you know, build a sort of arrangement

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Speaker 1: with one of them being um UGA Labs and all

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Speaker 1: of the different collections that are under you know that company,

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Speaker 1: so board it, y'all club me bits, so be it

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Speaker 1: UM and so again. I think, as with so many

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Speaker 1: things in crypto, the details here of what happens when

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Speaker 1: this goes wrong, because it will UM are just not

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Speaker 1: clear and so the risk is is a big part

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Speaker 1: of this conversation. I remember there is an an entrepreneur

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Speaker 1: named Webb Smith who many moons ago at this point,

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Speaker 1: you know me, the incredibly insightful observation that one of

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Speaker 1: the big attractions of n f t s, particularly the

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Speaker 1: Ugal abs n f t S, is feeling like you're

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Speaker 1: joining an exclusive and rarefied club. And I'm fascinated by

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Speaker 1: introducing this dynamic of even if you are not wealthy

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Speaker 1: enough to join that club on the first try, you

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Speaker 1: can still get in. And I do wonder, just as

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Speaker 1: like a social experiment, if there's going to be this

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Speaker 1: hierarchy in the thing, if people who like bought their

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Speaker 1: eight apes out right sort of looking down at the

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Speaker 1: people who are like, I'm sorry you hear in law,

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Speaker 1: like you know, there's like a classism elements discussion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great question, and I think that

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Speaker 1: I think really touches upon this fomo culture that you

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Speaker 1: feel with n f he's I mean, it's the club

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Speaker 1: that you want to be a part of. And especially

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Speaker 1: projects like Board eight Yacht Club have just so much

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Speaker 1: social commentary and like social media culture presence um and

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Speaker 1: so it's hard to ignore them. It's hard not to

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Speaker 1: want to be a part of them. And this definitely

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Speaker 1: gives um anyone who wants to, even if they can't

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Speaker 1: afford it, to be part of this really exclusive club,

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Speaker 1: and the whole thing was like, well, you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be rubbing shoulders with Snoop Dogg or virtual snoop Dogg

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Speaker 1: is the case maybe, And now it's like, can anyone

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Speaker 1: just rub shoulders with snoop dogs? Shocking? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that the way this company is pitching the buy now,

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Speaker 1: pay later option is back to this idea of democratization, decentralization,

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Speaker 1: a place where everyone can come be a part of

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Speaker 1: and really nothing else matters. And I think that that

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Speaker 1: was sort of a message that got lost in the

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Speaker 1: wave of you know, everybody's making a ton of money exactly,

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Speaker 1: and and when you know boarded yacht club owners became

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Speaker 1: crypto millionaires and billionaires, I think that conversation really shifted.

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Speaker 1: But the idea here is like anyone who can jump

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Speaker 1: into crypto should be able to no questions asked, and

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Speaker 1: this is just another way for them to do so,

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Speaker 1: I'll be it quite risky. Well, this is certainly something

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Speaker 1: I will be keeping an eye on. So maybe come

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Speaker 1: back in a few months and let us know how

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Speaker 1: this is all going. Yeah, let's check in and see

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Speaker 1: who actually used this and and how it's going. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think It's going to be very interesting. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: Mr Lena. You can find more of Mr Lena's reposing

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Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal on Bloomberg dot com or follow

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Speaker 1: her on Twitter. She's an original member of the First

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Speaker 1: Name Club and her Twitter is at m I S

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Speaker 1: Y R l E n E. On the next episode

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Crypto, with every additional bankruptcy filing or accusation

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Speaker 1: of insider trading, regulators seemed to turn up the heat

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Speaker 1: ever so slightly when it comes to their attention on

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Speaker 1: the digital set industry. But who is doing the regulating

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Speaker 1: and what does that even look like? And what does

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Speaker 1: it mean that the regulators themselves don't seem to entirely

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Speaker 1: agree on these questions. Bringing us up to speed on

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Speaker 1: what's happening here in the US with crypto regulation will

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Speaker 1: be Bloomberg Reports Allison vers Brill and Alex Newn. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I

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