Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Evening listeners don't say we don't come at you with
Speaker 2: a variety of voices. On our podcast series Last time Out.
Speaker 2: On Midnight Chats, Stewart was talking to the legendary Johnny Mark,
Speaker 2: a man who's released over a dozen albums in the
Speaker 2: thirty five years that he's been making music. My guest tonight,
Speaker 2: Kojo Cancum, otherwise known as Novelist, has made just one
Speaker 2: and if you're comparing their two experiences, they're not just
Speaker 2: generations but really worlds apart. Novelists might only just be
Speaker 2: starting out, but for me, what he's got to say
Speaker 2: is just as interesting if you don't know his story.
Speaker 2: He's a twenty one year old rapper and producer from Lewisham,
Speaker 2: South London, started making music in his mid teens and
Speaker 2: in the past has collaborated with the likes of Mum Dance,
Speaker 2: Jamie xx Bauer, Major Laser. He was on a track
Speaker 2: on the most recent Skeptic album as well, so it's
Speaker 2: been a few years in the making. But back in
Speaker 2: April he put out his debut album, Novelist Guy, and
Speaker 2: it wasn't what I was expecting. At all the UK
Speaker 2: rap or grime record that has an almost universally positive
Speaker 2: message in it. It's refreshing, so check it out if
Speaker 2: you haven't already. Back at the start of main Novelist
Speaker 2: came into our office in East London to record this
Speaker 2: conversation and as you're about to hear, he's both really
Speaker 2: polite and self assured, not in a cocky way, but
Speaker 2: in the fact that he has conviction in what he's
Speaker 2: doing and saying. And we talked about a load of stuff,
Speaker 2: including the rise in violent crime in London in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: which has been well documented, but as someone who spent
Speaker 2: time as Lewisham's young mayor and also been a victim
Speaker 2: of violent crime in the past, we spoke a bit
Speaker 2: about that His track Stopped Killing the Mandem has become
Speaker 2: a sort of unofficial protest anthem for that ongoing issue.
Speaker 2: Novelist Guy was made by himself, released on his own label,
Speaker 2: and his mum is his manager, so I wanted to
Speaker 2: know a bit more about mixing family and business and
Speaker 2: whether that works out for him, and also just a
Speaker 2: bit about his aspirations. His faith plays a huge role
Speaker 2: in his life. As you're hearing this, but he's also
Speaker 2: got an eye on some big future prizes that he
Speaker 2: wants to go for, so I hope he makes it there.
Speaker 2: Just finally, some news about us. This is episode fifty
Speaker 2: of Midnight Chats. I can't quite believe that, But after
Speaker 2: this one, we're going to take a bit of a
Speaker 2: break to record a bunch of new episodes over the summer.
Speaker 2: We'll then be back with a new episode, not every fortnight,
Speaker 2: but every single week for what will be series six
Speaker 2: of Midnight Chats. You'll hear from us then, But in
Speaker 2: the meantime, it's my pleasure to welcome novelist onto Midnight Chats. Novelists,
Speaker 2: welcome to our podcast, Midnight Chat. It's good to have
Speaker 2: you on.
Speaker 3: It's nice to be here.
Speaker 2: We're here after an uncharacteristically warm Bank holiday in London. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what did you get up to? Were busy this weekend?
Speaker 3: Yeah? This weekend?
Speaker 4: I mean I was in Mortar, Oh nice on the weekend.
Speaker 4: More on a Friday, come back on the Saturday. No,
Speaker 4: actually no, I was a more on a Saturday, come
Speaker 4: back on the Sunday, And on Sunday I went to
Speaker 4: church yesterday kind of just children, my boy and Shortitch
Speaker 4: the easy one.
Speaker 2: With that part of the Animac festival year he went
Speaker 2: out for that. How was that experience?
Speaker 4: It was lovely, man like. It was the first time
Speaker 4: me Pa and some of those songs from the album
Speaker 4: in a festival environment kind of call to test around
Speaker 4: them and see how people reacted, and it was smashing.
Speaker 2: Did you get any times to get an impression of
Speaker 2: Malta as a place.
Speaker 4: I didn't really have long there, but when I was
Speaker 4: traveling to the festival and to the hotel et cetera,
Speaker 4: was looking around and this place looks quite different to
Speaker 4: the rest of everywhere else, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I've not been that far.
Speaker 2: So sometimes on this podcast we don't get around to
Speaker 2: chatting about the artists that we're speaking to their new music.
Speaker 2: But actually, for this one, I want to start right there.
Speaker 2: We start with a novelist, Guy, which is your debut album,
Speaker 2: which you brought out just a few weeks ago. How
Speaker 2: have you felt about the reception to that album.
Speaker 3: It's been perfect, Yeah, it's been absolutely perfect.
Speaker 2: It's gone kind of exactly as you had it in
Speaker 2: your in your imagination.
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, because my fans they're very about me.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying. I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't really feel like I have a pop fan base.
Speaker 4: I have a fan base that really know about my music.
Speaker 4: And I've also found that a lot of different groups
Speaker 4: of people who are never would expect to like, pay
Speaker 4: interest to my music. They're saying, yeah, novelist, this is great,
Speaker 4: getting me through the day, getting me through my unicorse,
Speaker 4: And that's the kind of stuff that I like, the
Speaker 4: small things, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So it's been really good.
Speaker 2: So you've had people sharing their first time listen to
Speaker 2: the album, their personal experience is telling you their favorite track.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all been great, man, Okay, yeah, all of it.
Speaker 2: Where's the best one? As anybody said, I work in
Speaker 2: Tesco and I've heard it like you know, or it's
Speaker 2: my soundtrack to my drive to college or things like that.
Speaker 2: What kind of personal stories of people.
Speaker 3: My favorite one?
Speaker 4: Obviously I'm youth myself, so I mean, I'm twenty one now,
Speaker 4: so I'm kind of edging. But someone said it got
Speaker 4: them through their dissertation, and I thought, yeah, that's cool, man,
Speaker 4: because if my music's actually helping you get through something,
Speaker 4: that's going to take you to the next stage in
Speaker 4: your life.
Speaker 3: That's quite impactful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I've had a few wild ones, yeah,
Speaker 4: but that's the simpler ones are my favorite ones, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The album starts as the track called Start. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it sounds the same, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: When I listened to the record for the first time,
Speaker 2: it's really the whole thing feels very motivational, very positive,
Speaker 2: very honest. Yeah, and that track almost encapsulates that, right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about why you wanted to
Speaker 2: start the album with that song and how that almost
Speaker 2: acts as a theme for the album.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was Actually it's funny because when I was
Speaker 4: making that song, yeah, I just I wasn't in the
Speaker 4: best place of my life. But it's like that, I
Speaker 4: feel like God downloaded it to me. That's a literal downloading.
Speaker 2: It appeared this message.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like it just came through me, man.
Speaker 4: And when I was just making it, it just felt
Speaker 4: really good to make a beat that sounded like that,
Speaker 4: and then the lyrics are just coming incrementally, just coming
Speaker 4: out boom boom, thinking to myself, Yeah, I really like this,
Speaker 4: and then I just listen to it a few times,
Speaker 4: A few times. I wrote the lyrics before I wrote
Speaker 4: the chorus. I think, I think that's how it went there.
Speaker 4: And then I just remember writing to myself, when you
Speaker 4: get the chance, start putting your money in the future.
Speaker 4: Start at the songs about investing in yourself and being positive,
Speaker 4: actually being aware of the good things. And I put
Speaker 4: birds song that you might hear some chirping in the song,
Speaker 4: and I put that in the song just to like
Speaker 4: give it that morning Phiel. And you know when you
Speaker 4: wake up, if you play start when you wake up,
Speaker 4: it's like a good start to your day, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you start with almost manifesto for the album?
Speaker 2: Because it's kind of packed with the messages along the
Speaker 2: lines of your self love, their motivational there. I think
Speaker 2: you know you act as a kind of inspiring force
Speaker 2: on it. Was that? Is that just how the collection
Speaker 2: of songs that you wrote came together? Or did you
Speaker 2: sit down and go I want this album to be
Speaker 2: a sort of positive experience for people.
Speaker 4: Listening a mixture of both, because some of the songs
Speaker 4: I've had from before and I re recorded them and
Speaker 4: tailored them to a more positive message just through me
Speaker 4: becoming more mature in life. So my opinions on certain
Speaker 4: things kind of got a bit more understanding. Yeah, And
Speaker 4: I feel like I am the manifesto in itself, do
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. And I'm a man of
Speaker 4: faith as well, So my whole life, I've always believed
Speaker 4: in God and love and positivity. But obviously circumstance, he
Speaker 4: doesn't always keep your attention on the things that you
Speaker 4: care about, you know what I'm saying. So I wanted
Speaker 4: to like really implement as my foundation and debut album,
Speaker 4: Who I Really Am, more so than any other thing,
Speaker 4: because it's a reference point to yourself. Also, I'm saying,
Speaker 4: like when I listen to my music on this album,
Speaker 4: I don't cringe at it at all.
Speaker 3: I really enjoy it. I'm really happy.
Speaker 4: And I hope that all the children that grow up
Speaker 4: on this music, all the all the people who listen
Speaker 4: to it can relate to it because love, peace and
Speaker 4: power and having a collected mind, that's something that everybody
Speaker 4: in life wants, so what I'm saying, So it's kind
Speaker 4: of universal in that sense, and I believe that God
Speaker 4: himself is universal. So that's why I wanted to make
Speaker 4: the album in that way.
Speaker 2: Because your faith is like a reoccurring theme on the record. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: And it was important that that played the fundamental And
Speaker 2: then that feels like the foundation of it almost. Is
Speaker 2: that fair to.
Speaker 4: Say, yeah, because that's that's actually who I am. It's
Speaker 4: not like obviously your life we go through what we
Speaker 4: go through. You can't help where you're born or you
Speaker 4: know how people treat you. But you can always decide
Speaker 4: to want to be a better personal or like show
Speaker 4: the best of yourself. So that's what I wanted to
Speaker 4: do with my album.
Speaker 2: Man, it's released on your own label. Yeah, it's pretty
Speaker 2: much all you, right, I mean, this is this is
Speaker 2: your complete word them. Do you have like a producers
Speaker 2: it worked with you? Because there's not. It's not that
Speaker 2: you brought in any There's no big guest spots or
Speaker 2: anything like this. It feels like this is a statement
Speaker 2: about who novelist is, who you are, that you're kind
Speaker 2: of starting out intention Why was it important that this
Speaker 2: was a record made by you, released by you, kind
Speaker 2: of controlled by you? You know, like, why is it
Speaker 2: important to do all of those things?
Speaker 4: I wanted to be the purest version of myself and
Speaker 4: creative control. I don't even like that saying, you know,
Speaker 4: it comes with that whole like stigma to someone being
Speaker 4: like bossy, but nah, like I'm able, And I've always
Speaker 4: known that I was able from I was a young child.
Speaker 4: Before I even made an album, I always wanted to
Speaker 4: produce my own album just to show, like I believe
Speaker 4: sound can show you where someone's heart is. Like regardless
Speaker 4: of what lyrics are put on, someone can make an
Speaker 4: instrumental and you really know where they was in their
Speaker 4: life at that time. So I wanted I wanted to
Speaker 4: have that aspect of it. Then my personalities, who like,
Speaker 4: the music itself is the soul of me and my
Speaker 4: lyrics are the spirit.
Speaker 3: Do you feel what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: And and God is everything else, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean people that are familiar with your journey. You've
Speaker 2: been making music since you you know, early teenager yea,
Speaker 2: releasing music since you were mid teens twenty one now,
Speaker 2: So the fact that people might have heard your name
Speaker 2: or heard you appear on records, you know, for the
Speaker 2: past few years and now you know it's twenty eighteen
Speaker 2: year debut albums come out. Yeah, as you already explained,
Speaker 2: there's a reason why you took your time because you
Speaker 2: wanted it to be the purest thing it could be,
Speaker 2: and it to represent you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to represent me like the truest meat that I
Speaker 3: have known my whole life.
Speaker 2: Did you feel did you do you have any pressure
Speaker 2: from your subconscious to just try and because the music
Speaker 2: industry is the pace of it's relentless, right. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: hear a new name, they want to hear they want
Speaker 2: to hear music right then, they want new music all
Speaker 2: the time. They want they want to be reading interviews,
Speaker 2: they want to be There's this kind of like rush culture,
Speaker 2: isn't it. I want everything now?
Speaker 3: So did you have.
Speaker 2: Any hesitation about just taking your time and delivering it
Speaker 2: when it was right or did you.
Speaker 4: Just I've never had that hesitation. I more had irritation
Speaker 4: at people not understanding that they told me how I
Speaker 4: should do anything. Because you know that my faith is
Speaker 4: not in the wisdom of people, like my faith in
Speaker 4: myself and my faith in God is not. Someone might
Speaker 4: not ever be able to comprehend that. So you just
Speaker 4: have to look and observe what I'm doing. But they
Speaker 4: told me to put an album now because everyone's talking
Speaker 4: about me. Everyone's going to talk about me when I
Speaker 4: put out that album.
Speaker 2: Just looking at it from the other side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm really happy that I took my time and that
Speaker 4: my mom is my manager as well, which has really
Speaker 4: been great working with my mum, especially in this season
Speaker 4: and of my life. My brother he produces for me
Speaker 4: with me. He's shown me a lot. I've showed him
Speaker 4: a lot. A lot of the stuff that I'm doing
Speaker 4: is within my household. So for me, this is the
Speaker 4: best time that I could have put out my album. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and and and even within my soul, I'm just at
Speaker 4: peace in my life, in every aspect of my life.
Speaker 2: Everyone knows that being part of a family unit, there
Speaker 2: are always ups and downs. I remember very well during
Speaker 2: my older brother and there were good times and they
Speaker 2: were not so good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just.
Speaker 2: The way family life works. But when you when you
Speaker 2: work so intensely with close family on a project that's
Speaker 2: very close to your heart, there the frictions that come
Speaker 2: from that.
Speaker 4: Yeah argument, I mean, I mean, the times are done
Speaker 4: for me because it's all about a decision.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, true love.
Speaker 4: Yeah is like even when you're at sometimes you just
Speaker 4: back down because you may realize that you know this person,
Speaker 4: they're not. They can't see it from the angle that
Speaker 4: I can see it. So even if you're at your
Speaker 4: love surpasses that, you know what I'm saying. So it's
Speaker 4: like we don't really have points to prove anymore. It's
Speaker 4: more about just getting everything done.
Speaker 2: Can you separate those things? A lot of people would
Speaker 2: think of it as business and personal. You know, you're
Speaker 2: merging those two things together. So do you find yourself
Speaker 2: sat at the dinner table, sat watching TV, and then yeah,
Speaker 2: your brother says hey, I oh, your mum says hey,
Speaker 2: I need you to reply to this email did somebody
Speaker 2: send or do you mind that those two worlds are
Speaker 2: basically so tightly laced?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's fun. Yeah, yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 4: It's not you know, like it's easy to think of
Speaker 4: the worst because we know that that's the circumstance that
Speaker 4: a lot people were going through on a day to
Speaker 4: day basis. But me, myself and me and my people, like,
Speaker 4: we know what the mission is, so there's no confusion,
Speaker 4: Like confusion is not allowed to enter.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Is one of the benefits of having your mother as
Speaker 2: your manager, knowing that your mom's always going to have
Speaker 2: your best interests at heart.
Speaker 3: That is the sole benefit. That is the biggest benefit man.
Speaker 4: And one of the greatest things is just seeing my
Speaker 4: mom just travel go to different places.
Speaker 2: Would you mind me asking what did she do before
Speaker 2: she was managing you?
Speaker 4: She's always worked with young women. Yeah, she used to
Speaker 4: work in a women's hostel in Lewisham, and so she's
Speaker 4: always mentored young women. Love young people. I remember even
Speaker 4: when I was in primary school, my mom would come
Speaker 4: and do assemblies and you know, like like teach the
Speaker 4: history of different cultures and you know, just like she
Speaker 4: just loves young people. So her being in this field,
Speaker 4: she knows most of the MC's.
Speaker 3: That are my age. Yeah, they've been in and out
Speaker 3: of my house and stuff.
Speaker 2: And what do they is your mom? Like, will presume
Speaker 2: that she's a very kind of respected figure in.
Speaker 4: That Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never really had
Speaker 4: anyone other than people who completely don't know me, and
Speaker 4: never no one's ever really that dissed my mom or
Speaker 4: anything like that. People people in my whole borough, like,
Speaker 4: I've been a community person from the jump, So my
Speaker 4: borough knows my mom virtually, you know, I'm saying they
Speaker 4: were yes, mommy, how you doing, Mommy right, Yeah, that's
Speaker 4: my mom's character.
Speaker 3: So it's like I.
Speaker 4: Feel like even in the field of music, when she
Speaker 4: meets the artists, it's the same thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Really, she's a real mum.
Speaker 2: What about your friends, your family, your your friends from
Speaker 2: church for example, that is everybody. You must take great
Speaker 2: pride and I imagine the support there is huge, Like
Speaker 2: people really proud the fact that you're off to play
Speaker 2: festivals in Malta or you know, go and play you know,
Speaker 2: these notable gigs.
Speaker 3: I'm a very covert person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they don't even know that you do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, some some people do, some people don't. But I
Speaker 4: believe in them. That discretion will preserve any person, you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. So it's not it's not a
Speaker 4: thing of like hiding. But at the same time, you know,
Speaker 4: let's let people find out things naturally for themselves and
Speaker 4: because that's when you truly see who people are, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I don't shout from the top of the hills. I'm
Speaker 3: not this guy.
Speaker 4: My album just came up. Like, that's not my angle, man,
Speaker 4: Just keep it natural, keep it smooth. Maybe I know
Speaker 4: there's people in my borrow who've known me my whole life,
Speaker 4: and they don't know that I do music.
Speaker 2: That's true, because they'll judge you for just you know,
Speaker 2: being cojo that they see.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: And I love it when people call me by my
Speaker 4: name because it reminds me that I'm a normal guy.
Speaker 2: It just has extraordinary experiences.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 4: And also I'm in a generation of people who like
Speaker 4: the generation that I'm in. Everyone wants to have one
Speaker 4: one up on someone else. Like I say everyone, not everyone,
Speaker 4: but a big range of people. They want to have
Speaker 4: one up on each other. And I don't want to
Speaker 4: be a part of that. I want people to see
Speaker 4: me and feel comfortable to talk to me, knowing that
Speaker 4: I'm not going to like kind of steize on them,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. I want people to feel
Speaker 4: like they can approach me. I don't want them to
Speaker 4: feel like, oh, yeah, novelist is up there and I'm here,
Speaker 4: so I can't even talk to him how normally would
Speaker 4: because that's confusion.
Speaker 2: So it's important to be humble and approachable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, why not. I mean, it's the best thing.
Speaker 2: It's interesting to hear you talk about it because I
Speaker 2: get the sense that music is your passion, right, but
Speaker 2: also you have enough self confidence and like a support
Speaker 2: around you from family and friends that you get the
Speaker 2: sense that if you weren't doing music and say twenty
Speaker 2: years time, everything will be all right. Yeah, some people
Speaker 2: live through the fear of failing. It feels like you're
Speaker 2: not You're not at all. You don't you're not worried
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 4: An option I don't like it says, Yeah, there's a
Speaker 4: Bible verse that says God has not giving us the
Speaker 4: spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind.
Speaker 4: I believe that I don't connect with fear. Actually, if
Speaker 4: I start to feel any fear, I literally reject it
Speaker 4: on a spot like I'm not connected with this. You
Speaker 4: don't a really like, I'm not coming into agreement with
Speaker 4: that feeling because that's not what I want for myself.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, when I look into the future, I see exactly
Speaker 4: what I want, and that's how it's going to go,
Speaker 4: because that's how I want it to go, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. You gotta look at it. Let's look
Speaker 4: at from a physical sense. Here, say there's a green
Speaker 4: bush to your left and a fire to your right,
Speaker 4: I say a green bush. Let's say there's a farm
Speaker 4: to your left and a family to al right. Whatever
Speaker 4: side you face and stare at is the direction you're
Speaker 4: going to go in, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 4: I'm not onlooking at I don't focus on the things
Speaker 4: that I don't want to focus on what I do want.
Speaker 4: Those are the simple things that get you to where
Speaker 4: you want to be very simple, but you have to
Speaker 4: sit down and actually consider them.
Speaker 2: We've spoken about how people have received the album from
Speaker 2: like a fans perspective, perspective.
Speaker 3: A lot of the.
Speaker 2: Press is kind of cast you as like a bit
Speaker 2: of a spokesperson for people of your generation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of funny.
Speaker 2: That's the thing I do feel about that.
Speaker 4: People are gonna put me in whatever box they they
Speaker 4: put me in. I'll just leave that in God's hand.
Speaker 4: I feel cool, like I know what I'm trying to
Speaker 4: do and I can speak confidently about what I'm trying
Speaker 4: to do. So as long as as long as I'm
Speaker 4: never afraid of my own voice, which I'll never be,
Speaker 4: does it Like it's not that it doesn't matter what
Speaker 4: people say, but like I'm sure that people ever get
Speaker 4: the right idea or the wrong idea. People's only going
Speaker 4: to get the wrong idea if I give it to them,
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So when you see a trap like stop killing the man,
Speaker 2: then being like embraced is almost this sort of positive
Speaker 2: like a protest anthem. Yeah, are you just you embrace
Speaker 2: it as a good thing?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know this is this is useful.
Speaker 4: This is useful, Like it has a purpose. Every song
Speaker 4: on my album has a purpose. There's nothing that I
Speaker 4: say that's not intentional. You know, you see the whole
Speaker 4: let's talk about stocking the mandum for a second. That
Speaker 4: how that song came about was natural. That naturally occurred
Speaker 4: because in twenty sixteen, I remember there was a lot
Speaker 4: of mass shootings on black men in the US, and
Speaker 4: people over here decided to do a protest. Now I
Speaker 4: didn't even know that protest was going down when it happened,
Speaker 4: but I saw on the day, like I was on Twitter,
Speaker 4: I see people saying that the march is.
Speaker 3: Going to happen. Yep.
Speaker 4: I was at rinse Fem at the time. Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: in the building and there's like a spray paint shop
Speaker 4: right next to where their office is. So I just
Speaker 4: got like some paper spray painted stop killing a man them,
Speaker 4: because like everyone in London understands the slang, you know
Speaker 4: what I'm saying, So I just sprayed it on there
Speaker 4: went there. I went there as a civilian, didn't go
Speaker 4: there as novelist, when there just as a black bay
Speaker 4: who just not really feeling all this murder stuff. And
Speaker 4: that's not even just the police brutality. That's I'm talking
Speaker 4: about on the road level as well, Like where I
Speaker 4: grew up, I've been stabbed myself and been through a
Speaker 4: whole lot of stuff, so it's like I understand the
Speaker 4: dynamics of how something can turn not to one hundred
Speaker 4: where some people don't. So anyway, I wrote stop killing
Speaker 4: a mandum on the thing. That picture just went viral
Speaker 4: man like naturally, which is like I said, in the
Speaker 4: hands of God. I couldn't have done that myself. So
Speaker 4: that went viral. And then one day I was just
Speaker 4: in my room thinking, you know what, I've got a
Speaker 4: voice like.
Speaker 3: I make music. This is the gift I was given
Speaker 3: so I might say something.
Speaker 4: And the promotion of the messages promoted itself like it's
Speaker 4: done it itself already. Anyway, so if I had, if
Speaker 4: I had an audio to what's already been out there,
Speaker 4: people's going to connect the dots and be like, Okay, cool,
Speaker 4: this is really a real thing that's going on in
Speaker 4: the world that we need to stop killing a manum
Speaker 4: Oh it's the same guy at the protest. Oh, he
Speaker 4: produced it himself, Like, you know what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 4: not about me, but don't understand that this is a
Speaker 4: real concern coming from a real guy from a real place.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. So that's why I made
Speaker 4: the song. And hopefully whoever it may concern, one day
Speaker 4: someone hears the song, they're going out with their knife,
Speaker 4: they put they put the knife down because they think,
Speaker 4: you know what, really and truly, because you can't stop
Speaker 4: anyone from doing anything, but you can influence. So so
Speaker 4: I'm using my influence for possible good because if I
Speaker 4: don't give the option in the first place, then it
Speaker 4: hasn't been given. So you have to put it out there,
Speaker 4: leaving people's hands.
Speaker 2: Obviously, there's been plenty of headlines this year about the
Speaker 2: serious crime that's been in London. Yeah you've been you know,
Speaker 2: you already mentioned you know you've experienced the violence. You've
Speaker 2: experienced the violence, yeah, very much, the negative side of that.
Speaker 2: So there aren't any simple answers are there.
Speaker 3: That's what people don't get, Like there's those simple answers.
Speaker 2: Yea.
Speaker 4: The only thing you can do is shroud it with positivity,
Speaker 4: kill it, kill it with positivity, because you know, if
Speaker 4: you don't do that, then what are you doing. You're
Speaker 4: ever adding fuel to the fire or you're throwing water
Speaker 4: on it. And that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.
Speaker 4: So I'm just trying to do my bit. I don't
Speaker 4: think I'm those superhero or nothing. I leave that in
Speaker 4: the hands of Jesus.
Speaker 3: That's me. But I still got my voice.
Speaker 2: And it is frustrating when you see some of those
Speaker 2: negative things being attributed to certain communities or certain genres
Speaker 2: of music, then that just feels like you're making a
Speaker 2: connection that you're just looking for this blame culture, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's looking for something that for example, like you know,
Speaker 2: London drill rap for example, has been singled out by
Speaker 2: certain publications as being an influence on some of the
Speaker 2: serious crime.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you think, you think it probably is an influence,
Speaker 2: but it's not the only reason, is it.
Speaker 4: No, it's not because it's been it's been happening. It
Speaker 4: is an influence same way, Like the same way if
Speaker 4: if if the only things they showed on TV was
Speaker 4: horror movies, that's what would be in the minds of people.
Speaker 4: So you know, like we can't we can't completely say
Speaker 4: that it has no part to play. It is influencing
Speaker 4: some of the young GE's. Like some of the young youths,
Speaker 4: they're dumb, they're not they're not intelligent yet, Like they
Speaker 4: need to grow up a bit, Like people go through
Speaker 4: things that make them more intelligent. But if what you're
Speaker 4: feeding them, or if what they they're in love with
Speaker 4: is violence and that's what's what they're hearing all the time,
Speaker 4: that's what's going to be on their mind, you know
Speaker 4: what I'm saying. And then they capture the spirit of
Speaker 4: fair because they don't want to die. But they they're
Speaker 4: addicted to like that whole lifestyle, not understanding the dynamics
Speaker 4: of that lifestyle because most of them mate really from it.
Speaker 4: Like some of them have got really good backgrounds, but
Speaker 4: it's their boy who has got a crazy background who
Speaker 4: they're rolling with all the time, but somehow they getting them.
Speaker 4: That's theother one who gets killed. And this is how
Speaker 4: it goes. But it's better that people focus on things
Speaker 4: that's going to elevate their life and than not regardless
Speaker 4: of whether it's music, whether it's the media, whether it's
Speaker 4: who they're hanging with.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: There's there's all types of influence, but for people to
Speaker 4: single out a genre and say it's only this, I
Speaker 4: think that's stupid about talk about some of the policies
Speaker 4: that are out that make the community a certain way. Like,
Speaker 4: there's all kind of we could all put our fingers
Speaker 4: at a million different things, but what's the point in
Speaker 4: doing that when we could put our finger at the solution?
Speaker 2: I mean to take it back to the music. The
Speaker 2: as I already said, the album focuses on a positive message. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so to connect those two things. Have you spoken to
Speaker 2: people that have listened to your music that have said
Speaker 2: it's had a posit positive influence on my life And
Speaker 2: I'm going to choose this path rather than this path,
Speaker 2: and hopefully this one's like less destructive than this one.
Speaker 2: You know, for you is that vindication of doing like
Speaker 2: the right thing and also a powerful thing to hear
Speaker 2: back from your listenership.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's nice to hear, man, it's nice to hear.
Speaker 4: It's really nice to hear. It's fulfilling if one person,
Speaker 4: even if it's one person out of the whole scape
Speaker 4: of the whole world, decides that, you know what, I'm
Speaker 4: going to live my life different in a better way
Speaker 4: because I've taken on this message that that I'll feel
Speaker 4: happy because one soul is priceless. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: I don't want no one to die. I don't want
Speaker 4: no one to to not understand how to govern their money.
Speaker 4: I don't want people to live the lesser life. I
Speaker 4: want everyone to live the better life. And that's what
Speaker 4: my album is about. It's also about how and self respect,
Speaker 4: self confidence, having respect for others, knowing what to expect,
Speaker 4: like from putting in your own work.
Speaker 3: I've got a song on there.
Speaker 4: Called Wait Wait Wait, which is talking about like people
Speaker 4: kind of just like standing next to you to lead
Speaker 4: off of you. So I put that mentality out there
Speaker 4: of like look after your own stuff and knowing it
Speaker 4: getting what they don't deserve, which is not selfish.
Speaker 3: That is actually right.
Speaker 4: We're supposed to protect our own, but we're also supposed
Speaker 4: to be very given as well and charitable and love people.
Speaker 4: So it's a balance of having a steadfast mind and
Speaker 4: be in control of yourself as a person, and anyone
Speaker 4: who takes on those messages hopefully it's a catalyst to
Speaker 4: them becoming a better version of themselves.
Speaker 2: It's been often said that you are a young man
Speaker 2: with a wise sort of head on your shoulders. It's
Speaker 2: the thing that I kept reading before we met up today.
Speaker 2: And how do you take that as a compliment, because
Speaker 2: you know, it does feel like in your you know,
Speaker 2: relatively short twenty one years, that you've experienced a lot
Speaker 2: that it makes it's a really mature record, really mature
Speaker 2: album to have made it twenty one, I think, because
Speaker 2: twenty one I was still really just not figuring out
Speaker 2: things that are on the level that you are. And
Speaker 2: that's a compliment, by the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you how I take it, and I talk
Speaker 4: about God a lot, but I have to credit it
Speaker 4: back to God because when I was young, I read
Speaker 4: a story in the Bible about King Solomon, and he
Speaker 4: was the king of Israel at the time. I remember
Speaker 4: this story he asked, He actually asked God for wisdom
Speaker 4: and understanding, and that never that never ever left me.
Speaker 4: So I always used to pray to God, to God,
Speaker 4: I need wisdom. I wanted to dwell on having wisdom.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm not.
Speaker 3: The wise this guy. I've made some mistakes that I
Speaker 3: was saying.
Speaker 4: But when people told me that wires and et cetera,
Speaker 4: it's like a confirmation that God is doing a work
Speaker 4: in me, that all the things that I really desired
Speaker 4: from my heart I'm receiving. Because I've always wanted to
Speaker 4: be wise, not for not for my own self glorification,
Speaker 4: but why not be wise in this earth? It's better
Speaker 4: that you be wise than unwise. That's that's wisdom in itself,
Speaker 4: and and and you know that that's the truth. So
Speaker 4: I just pray. I've always prayed for wisdom the beginning.
Speaker 4: The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord.
Speaker 4: That's what I believe.
Speaker 3: So these are the things that I focus on on
Speaker 3: a daily basis.
Speaker 2: This album obviously was rooted at home, but did take
Speaker 2: you to other places like Abbey Roade Studios, the famous
Speaker 2: Abbi Rode studios. But am I right in thinking that
Speaker 2: when you were working there, the whole sort of the
Speaker 2: the musical history of the place was not what you
Speaker 2: were most impressed with. You actually just found the people there,
Speaker 2: the atmosphere was okay. Tell us a bit more about
Speaker 2: what that experience was like.
Speaker 4: How how I came into contact with Abby Road. Here
Speaker 4: was I made a song with a friend of mine,
Speaker 4: uncle j d Reid, and this song was called Ready,
Speaker 4: and he he made me revocal the song at the
Speaker 4: Abbey Road studios. They opened a studio called the Gatehouse.
Speaker 3: It's like a.
Speaker 4: Separate part, but I met I met a man called
Speaker 4: Mark Robertson at Abbey Road, lovely person. He stuck with
Speaker 4: me the whole way. I've met my engineer Gordon, lovely
Speaker 4: guy as well, and I just remembered thinking to myself,
Speaker 4: I need to come back and do some stuff with
Speaker 4: these dudes. So once I got working on my album,
Speaker 4: I mixed it down to the best of my ability.
Speaker 4: I just called up Abby Road and said, yeah, I want,
Speaker 4: I want to book a few sessions and we only
Speaker 4: ended up using I booked four days in the studio.
Speaker 4: We only ended up using three of the days because Gordon,
Speaker 4: basically he said to Gordon, who's the engineer. He said
Speaker 4: to me, I've basically done all the work, like there's
Speaker 4: not much left to say.
Speaker 2: You don't need to give you another day. I'll be
Speaker 2: ripping you up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're done.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And a man, a man called Alex Alex mastered the
Speaker 4: album as well. Lovely guy man. They're just sweet people
Speaker 4: in there. Their relationship with my mum is like unbreakable
Speaker 4: because it's really personal. Everything's just like so much love.
Speaker 4: So you know, when I go there, I'm going for
Speaker 4: the people and the staff that they're like, even even
Speaker 4: the bartender in the in the canteen, Dave, lovely guy.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. I'll give you so much
Speaker 4: shout outs right there. I just got love for for
Speaker 4: for all the people when I go in there. They're
Speaker 4: really receptive. And it wasn't a freebie or anything like that.
Speaker 4: It was a business transaction. But the business relationship is
Speaker 4: amazing because the people are amazing and we're cool.
Speaker 2: It's refreshing to hear that because there are definitely artists
Speaker 2: that I've spoken to before who feel the weight and
Speaker 2: the pressure of the space the building. The cliche goes
Speaker 2: that musical history is oozing out of the walls. You know,
Speaker 2: all the people that have recorded over there, obviously famous,
Speaker 2: made famous by the Beatles and everything else. But it's
Speaker 2: nice just to hear that your experience was kind of
Speaker 2: removed from that almost It wasn't. That wasn't the important thing.
Speaker 3: I went there to put their studio, bro that was it.
Speaker 4: Like like, like, I respect the history, but I'm not
Speaker 4: a madman, so I'm not going in there being overwhelmed.
Speaker 3: But it's not that like I'm saying.
Speaker 4: I've was even having a little joke, like I've heard
Speaker 4: these guys that's gone there, that kissed the.
Speaker 3: Floor and all of that stuff. That's not going to do.
Speaker 2: Anything for me, you know, pictures of the wall and
Speaker 2: the toilets and stuff away with this, yeah, piece of history.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like that's not that doesn't do anything for me.
Speaker 4: I'm a very simple man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Let me pay for my session, un let's have fun
Speaker 4: doing it and then end results, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: But it's been really special because of the history and
Speaker 4: because of how important this album is to people. It
Speaker 4: kind of goes hand in hand with the whole Abbey Road.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: So hopefully in the future I might be one of
Speaker 4: them dudes that people are like, yeah, novelists recorded there.
Speaker 3: I hope. So.
Speaker 2: Man, it's a special moment for any artist to release
Speaker 2: the debut album because you only ever get to do
Speaker 2: that once. Yeah, and so do you feel like you've
Speaker 2: kind of like fully taken on that experience and fully
Speaker 2: enjoyed it for what it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just let it be as simple as it
Speaker 4: should be. I haven't thrown like crazy parties, and just
Speaker 4: like because it was all about the music getting out,
Speaker 4: That's what it was. And you know, sometimes when it
Speaker 4: comes to this stuff, everyone can make such a big
Speaker 4: deal out of everything except for the actual music, Whereas
Speaker 4: this time, I've tried to approach it the opposite way.
Speaker 4: Let the music speak for who I am and what
Speaker 4: the message is. And I'm so shocked at all the
Speaker 4: different crowds, different people, different blogs, different media magazines, personalities,
Speaker 4: and people that are actually just paying attention and saying
Speaker 4: this is great, this is what we needed, breath of
Speaker 4: fresh air. We haven't had a project like this for
Speaker 4: a while. You know what I'm saying. I really love that.
Speaker 4: So that's that's that's like my edification, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2: What are your dreams like aspirations, Like what opportunities do
Speaker 2: you hope it opens up for you? Like I mean
Speaker 2: in platform wise, you know, like I don't know whether
Speaker 2: somebody ever dreams of like getting a BRIT Award nomination
Speaker 2: or gets the opportunity to perform at the BRIT Awards
Speaker 2: to make.
Speaker 3: I expect that stuff. Yeah, I know, thespire for that stuff.
Speaker 2: I expected what's on You're like, what do you expect?
Speaker 3: Then?
Speaker 4: I expect to with a mercury one day. I expect
Speaker 4: to like you see, like the Stort Awards and stuff.
Speaker 4: I expect to be in those places because I know
Speaker 4: that my music is great and if you're, if they're,
Speaker 4: if those people are saying that they handle great music,
Speaker 4: then I expect to be there because that's that's what
Speaker 4: my lifestyle with my music is in agreement with It's
Speaker 4: in agreement with greatness and et cetera. So I wouldn't
Speaker 4: I wouldn't necessarily want to list out, oh yeah, I
Speaker 4: want to do this, this and that.
Speaker 3: But more more on a personal.
Speaker 4: Aspiration would be to see to be in different communities
Speaker 4: and have talks with people about the messages that I'm
Speaker 4: trying to put out because my music is purposeful. My
Speaker 4: music isn't about me or just for me. My music
Speaker 4: is for everyone, for everyone to actually come together and
Speaker 4: make sense. I added simple things in life. Those are
Speaker 4: the things that will really, like get my blood jumping
Speaker 4: that I'd love to, like, really chop it up with
Speaker 4: just some different people about different stuff. That's conversation. Conversation
Speaker 4: sets people free, man, you know what I mean, especially
Speaker 4: when everyone's listening as well.
Speaker 2: Just finally, so the album you made, it's very much
Speaker 2: about you, but you have worked with other people in
Speaker 2: the past. Jamie x X skeptic people like that. What's
Speaker 2: next in your thought process? Debut album's done in a
Speaker 2: practical sense, like now, do you want to go and
Speaker 2: work on a few other projects as you're doing new things?
Speaker 2: Or is it like album two. I'm already focused. I've
Speaker 2: already got an idea of where I want that to be.
Speaker 4: I've got so many ideas. And also I've got a
Speaker 4: lot of music done that's not out. I've got so
Speaker 4: much songs that have not released it, So revamp some
Speaker 4: of those songs, put out some songs that are ready
Speaker 4: took over. As for projects, I've got many ideas. It's
Speaker 4: just it just doesn't stop. It doesn't stop to the
Speaker 4: casket drops and even in it don't stop.
Speaker 3: It never stops.
Speaker 4: And it's gonna help some new guys in the future
Speaker 4: as well who have the right head on their shoulders.
Speaker 4: Whatever I can do to be an asset to the
Speaker 4: Kingdom of God and and and just like make life
Speaker 4: better for people while I'm on earth, That's what I'm want.
Speaker 2: And if we've got any Mercury Prize judges listening needs
Speaker 2: to go back. Novelist guy needs to go back to
Speaker 2: the top of the inbox.
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