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Speaker 1: My name is Klay Nukeleman. This is a production of

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Speaker 1: the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render where

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Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear,

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Speaker 1: American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed

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Speaker 1: to be as rugged as the place as we explore.

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Speaker 1: All right, boys, we've got a lot of ground covered today,

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Speaker 1: and this is the main ground we have to cover.

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Speaker 1: Is Clay Hayes is here with us, Josh. Clay Hayes

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Speaker 1: is is the man on the internet for bow building,

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of bushcraft stuff, making flint locks. You

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Speaker 1: live in Idaho, and we're going to get into this,

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Speaker 1: but like this, this will be the conversation that we

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Speaker 1: have that kind of like finalized the podcast. But Clay

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Speaker 1: was the winner of a loan the show alone.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, twenty two.

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Speaker 3: Twenty twenty is when it was when we were out there,

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Speaker 3: we were right, oh really, right in the middle of COVID. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Has it been that long?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So twenty twenty Yeah, so that's like the meat on

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Speaker 1: the bone. But before before we get there, no, thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming man. We've got a Josh Spilmaker with us here,

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Speaker 1: Barr John newkeom here. So the there's two things I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about. I want to talk about a

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Speaker 1: recent social media your posts that I made about water

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Speaker 1: witching using witching sticks.

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Speaker 2: Hey, would you cr I got some opinions on that.

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Speaker 1: Great listen. I am gonna just I'm very humbly gonna

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Speaker 1: just give my full appeal for what it is, how

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Speaker 1: I've used it, and what I have seen with my

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Speaker 1: own eyes for decades. And if anybody has a problem

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Speaker 1: with that, then I don't know what to tell them.

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Speaker 1: But so we're going to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: It's okay to disagree. We don't have to not be friends.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. I just don't know what to

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Speaker 1: tell you. It's just like, okay, So we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about that. And then we're going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: film that Baron and I were on. I've been under

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Speaker 1: this under the microscope this week really from the from

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Speaker 1: the water Witching post and then on the YouTube the

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Speaker 1: YouTube video, everybody was talking about how like the climax

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Speaker 1: of the film is when this bear pops out, and

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Speaker 1: and maybe that's what we should talk about right now,

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Speaker 1: there's like three hundred comments on the most recent Montana

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Speaker 1: black bear video, and it's it's it's it was such

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Speaker 1: a great hunt. We ended up killing a big bear.

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Speaker 1: But there's this moment when bear John sees a bear

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Speaker 1: and we both go up the bears coming around the

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Speaker 1: road and we're trying to get bear the shot and

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Speaker 1: bear puller back up. Nope, nope, nope, no up like

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Speaker 1: this yeah like that, Yes, deals about to pop off.

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Speaker 1: There you go, rookies, rookies. And basically the bear is

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Speaker 1: like at forty yards and bears using a three hundred

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Speaker 1: wind mag and I am pleading with him to shoot

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Speaker 1: the bear after we wait to see that it's not

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Speaker 1: a sound, doesn't have cubs or could have been a sout,

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Speaker 1: just it didn't have cubs. And and basically the bear

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Speaker 1: turns and as it's turning, I'm saying shoot, shoot, shoot,

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Speaker 1: And when the bear fully turns and it's running away,

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Speaker 1: I'm it's like I'm still in the momentum of a

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Speaker 1: father just going shoot, shoot shoot. So I actually do

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Speaker 1: say shoot one hundred percent while the bear is like

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Speaker 1: running down the road, and so like half of the

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Speaker 1: comments are just like Lear, I used to respect Clay,

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Speaker 1: I'm serious And then they're like, but Bear nuke? What

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Speaker 1: what a pillar of a man? Which is true? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's true. I mean Bear massively made the right

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Speaker 1: decision and did the right thing even with the pressure

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Speaker 1: of a dad Clay, you know, I would know how

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Speaker 1: you know, the feeling. Do you have kids?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's hard to you know, get an accurate

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Speaker 3: understanding of what was going on in that moment unless you're.

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Speaker 1: There, right, yeah, yeah, what we could see and what

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Speaker 1: the camera saw. But anyway, Bear, what what would you

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Speaker 1: what do you say about it all? Yeah? I mean

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Speaker 1: I feel like it was I feel like I did

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Speaker 1: have a shot really like, I don't think the camera

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Speaker 1: quite captured everything because at one point the bear was

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Speaker 1: sticking its head up, and I mean I just had

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Speaker 1: a perfect shot just like right at the kind of

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Speaker 1: upper part of its chest and that was when I

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Speaker 1: should have shot it. But there was They were just like,

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Speaker 1: did you hesitate? Well, it was like a combination of

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Speaker 1: a lot of factors. I think. I think it was

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Speaker 1: like my first time to ever like be in front

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Speaker 1: of the cameras, which was just like in the back

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Speaker 1: of my mind there was brush in front of it,

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Speaker 1: which was no big issue except like I really don't

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Speaker 1: holt with a gun all that much, and I was

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Speaker 1: just like in my mind that was just like you

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Speaker 1: don't shoot through the brush. And then it was like

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Speaker 1: we just like just seen this bear, and I was

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Speaker 1: like there was like the smallest little thought in the

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Speaker 1: back of my head like there's still a part of

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Speaker 1: that hillslope you couldn't see that, like there could still

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Speaker 1: be cubs or something, which I mean there weren't, like

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Speaker 1: we kind of knew it, but it was like in

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Speaker 1: that like split second that was like part of the

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Speaker 1: my thinking process and I think, and then I pretty

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Speaker 1: much just kind of like froze, like with all those

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Speaker 1: like thoughts kind of like colliding. I just like totally froze,

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Speaker 1: And so you know, that's why I didn't shoot it turning.

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Speaker 1: So I did have a shot, but yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: like if I were to do it again, I would

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Speaker 1: probably just take that next shot. But well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do when you're in the heat

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Speaker 1: of the moment and lots of stuff is coming in

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Speaker 1: and there there's any negative variable, like you're supposed to wait, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean like you made.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. When I was watching A Choice, I had that

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Speaker 2: same thought. I was, like, Bear made the right move.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you could have.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you could have made the other the other

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Speaker 2: decision and probably got the bear. But man, in those cases,

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Speaker 2: better safe than sorry, especially under the scrutiny of a camera.

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Speaker 1: You know, that would have been bad to have like

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Speaker 1: made a bad shot off or something. Yeah. Well it

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Speaker 1: it was in the moment, it felt a lot more

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Speaker 1: existential than it was. I mean, like we'd been it

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Speaker 1: was the sixth day. Yeah, I think that was the

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Speaker 1: other part of it that the camera couldn't quite capture,

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Speaker 1: was like the desperation to kill a bear. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I mean, and it's not it's it's funny. It's

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Speaker 1: not that we were I mean, it's just such a

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Speaker 1: massive expedition to go up there, like yeah, thirty hours

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Speaker 1: with your mules, like ends up being a ten day trip.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I mean you're going up there to

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Speaker 1: kill a bear. And I felt like this was our

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Speaker 1: one opportunity, you know, And and so anyway, but Bear

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Speaker 1: was the hero though of the in the comments, I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody was taking this.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for Salvage and the film.

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Speaker 1: It's a good job, bear, A good job. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: any anything else you want to say about that? Oh oh,

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Speaker 1: I know what tell about how we split up because

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Speaker 1: you saw the bear from the long ways away? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: basically we split up like after that opportunity. We split

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Speaker 1: up with different ways and I saw like the bear

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Speaker 1: you ended up killing. I spotted it, like it was

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Speaker 1: three quarters of a mile from where I was that

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Speaker 1: and so we like booked it around the rim of

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Speaker 1: this mountain to get over to it. And it was

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Speaker 1: about a mile and a half like a horseshoe to

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Speaker 1: where it was. And we kind of like came to

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Speaker 1: where we last saw it and started like sneaking down

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Speaker 1: the road just thinking that any minute we were just

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Speaker 1: going to like see it around the corner. I mean

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Speaker 1: like literally the whole time once we got there, like

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Speaker 1: I just knew we were just about to see it.

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Speaker 1: My heart was pounding. And then the road forked and

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Speaker 1: the bear like literally there was a fresh pile of scat,

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Speaker 1: like right at the fork. I was like, if there

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Speaker 1: was a children's book about bear hunting, yeah, that would

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Speaker 1: be in it. Yeah, yeah, following bear scat? Oh no,

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Speaker 1: which way did he go? And it? You know, so

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Speaker 1: I started out going right and on the right fork,

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Speaker 1: it just like went over the top of this mountain

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Speaker 1: and just turned into just like a whole nother area,

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Speaker 1: Like it just opened up into and it was snow.

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Speaker 1: There was snow on the ground up there, and no

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Speaker 1: no vegetation. Yeah, but it well there wasn't snow on

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Speaker 1: the ground, but there was no vegetation. There was a

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Speaker 1: bank of snow. It's in the film. Oh maybe there was.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember, but I remember going up that right

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Speaker 1: and getting up to the top of that and it

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Speaker 1: just like opened up into just like a ocean of

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Speaker 1: just new territory that if he went down there, like

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Speaker 1: he was just gone. And then I went to the

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Speaker 1: left and it like immediately dead ended, and so I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, maybe he went down the lower road,

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Speaker 1: went down to the lower road, which was only like

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Speaker 1: one hundred yards from the other road that we were

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Speaker 1: just on, and didn't see him. So I was just like,

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Speaker 1: whenever I was thinking about it, I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the bear had to have just gone on that right

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Speaker 1: fork and just disappeared into right like the whole world.

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Speaker 1: So when we met back up together, yeah, I was like,

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Speaker 1: there's no way we're going to kill that bear. He's gone.

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Speaker 1: And they didn't get that part on camera, but we

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Speaker 1: met and you were telling me I need to go

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Speaker 1: back in there during prime time. So it's like it's

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Speaker 1: like two hours left of daylight and he's seen this

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Speaker 1: bear like an hour before, and he was telling me

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Speaker 1: he was gonna go like a totally different direction, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I was gonna go try to

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Speaker 1: find it. And I was like, man, you got to

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Speaker 1: go back in where you saw that bear. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that bear is in there, and I'll let you finish

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Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, And so pretty much I was just

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Speaker 1: certain that the bear was like gone lost to the

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Speaker 1: wind and that I could maybe go get back on

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Speaker 1: either that other bear right or finding finding bear. And

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Speaker 1: so I went that way. And so what did I say, Josh,

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Speaker 1: is he is he left on his own free will,

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Speaker 1: and by me begging him to go back in there,

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Speaker 1: as I said, well, I'm going back in there, yep.

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Speaker 1: And then I went back in there and killed the bear,

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Speaker 1: like right where he was. That bear had to have

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Speaker 1: been just like bedded down. I mean, yeah, he had

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Speaker 1: to have been close because where you shot him, there's

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Speaker 1: actually a clip Yeah, in the film walking down this

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Speaker 1: little and it was exactly where you shot him. Well,

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Speaker 1: what's funny about the film? And again this is me

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Speaker 1: saying I've been under the scrutiny of the of the

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Speaker 1: of the world this week is I had I had

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Speaker 1: a friend that say he was watching the whole the

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Speaker 1: film with his family, and he said, me and Bear

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Speaker 1: split up, and Bear goes back the other way, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the way they edited it, it's

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Speaker 1: it's bear walking. He's going to look for bear by

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Speaker 1: you know, like day six was getting dark that though.

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Speaker 1: And then it shifts to me and it's just like

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Speaker 1: over the shoulder, there's a bear and you just see

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Speaker 1: a person's arm and camouflage and a gun and shoot

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Speaker 1: the bear. You see the bear go down, and then

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Speaker 1: the camera turns and it's me, not Bear. And he

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Speaker 1: said his whole family went what And he said his kids,

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Speaker 1: his little kids were like and they were they were

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Speaker 1: upset with me for shooting bears. And then so but

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Speaker 1: the but we didn't get on the film of like

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, he me trying to get him

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Speaker 1: to go back right, but no, So so I'm glad

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Speaker 1: we got that taken care of. And uh no, okay,

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Speaker 1: So here's the deal. The term water witching is probably

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Speaker 1: not the best descriptor. I've heard it called dowsing, water witching,

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Speaker 1: or divining rods. I was taught, Now this is bizarre,

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Speaker 1: but I was taught that divining rods and dowsing were

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Speaker 1: actually like purposeful engagement with the spirit realm to get

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Speaker 1: information about like what you were doing. And so my

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Speaker 1: dad was always.

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Speaker 2: Like, so the one word that didn't associate with that

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Speaker 2: was witching.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. But as a kid, I remember my dad being like, now,

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Speaker 1: thousand and divining rods, now that's witchcraft, but waterwitching is.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Clay, have you ever have you ever done water witching?

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Speaker 3: I I don't recall if I've ever messed with him before,

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Speaker 3: but I've seen folks do it, but they probably had

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Speaker 3: no idea what they were doing either. I mean with

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Speaker 3: coat hangers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, what implement do you use?

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Speaker 1: Oh, coat hangers?

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Speaker 2: I've done it. Like we had a friend who had

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Speaker 2: a water leak at his house and we could not

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Speaker 2: find it, and uh, my friend's expense, you know, he said, well,

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Speaker 2: let's let's witch it. And I was like, what are

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Speaker 2: you talking about? And uh he he gets coat hangers. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we start we know the general location of where

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Speaker 2: the water line is, right, and so we start crossing it.

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Speaker 2: And I swear to you the where he divined it

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Speaker 2: was exactly where the water leak was. And I didn't

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Speaker 2: believe it. So I tried it and they move, they move.

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Speaker 2: I can't. It's unexplainable. Is the science here?

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Speaker 1: Listen? Listen, Okay, here's the deal. There are three hundred

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Speaker 1: comments on the posts that I made. I would say

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Speaker 1: eighty percent of them are people with stories like that

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Speaker 1: that's just like, I don't understand it, but it works.

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Speaker 1: And then there are multiple comments of guys that are

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Speaker 1: you know, come across as intelligent and informed and go,

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Speaker 1: there's no academic research on this. This is a pseudoscience.

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Speaker 1: It's not real, I'll tell you. And so this goes

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Speaker 1: back to the naming mechanism that Gary Nukem was comfortable with.

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Speaker 1: Was the reason that witching sticks were okay and had

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with like the dark realm giving you

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Speaker 1: information about the Earth was because they work like gravity.

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Speaker 1: I mean like they just work. I could do it

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Speaker 1: right now, and I could. I could you take two?

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Speaker 1: You take a coat hanger, a metal coat hanger, and

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Speaker 1: straighten it out and take the last six inches and

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Speaker 1: bend it into a ninety tep and you hold it

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Speaker 1: and you walk loosely.

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Speaker 2: You hold it real loosely.

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Speaker 1: Very loosely, and it will find all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: The only way that I can describe it is that

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Speaker 1: it finds anomalies in the ground. That's like the That's

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Speaker 1: not nobody ever said that to me. That's just what

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Speaker 1: it does. Like if you walk over your dog, it

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Speaker 1: does like this. If I walked if I walked over you,

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Speaker 1: it would do that. If you walk over a water line,

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Speaker 1: a gas line, uh, it'll do that.

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Speaker 2: I've only ever done it for water.

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Speaker 1: So and and and the reason it works over a

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Speaker 1: grave is because there's metal, there's a coffin, there's hollow space,

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Speaker 1: there's something in the ground. I don't I don't know

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Speaker 1: why it works over this man. It's a it's oh,

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's it's.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it predates coat hangers, by the way.

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Speaker 1: Predates coat hangers. Well, so, but I would like to

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Speaker 1: I would like to here. Here's my thing about it

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Speaker 1: is that, uh, somebody told me. They said it's subconscious

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Speaker 1: and you're moving the rods without knowing it with your hands.

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Speaker 2: Did it with my eyes closed?

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Speaker 1: And every person that did that, I asked them, I said,

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Speaker 1: have you ever done it before? Because that is absolutely

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Speaker 1: not I like, I completely reject that, because like you're

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Speaker 1: not moving them with your hands, that they are moving

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Speaker 1: on their own. I had a guy say, Clay, it's

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Speaker 1: the same thing as the Oigi board, which I don't

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Speaker 1: even say the name Ogi board. That's like, that's like

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Speaker 1: stuff I don't want to mess with exactly. But as

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Speaker 1: I understand Oigi board, you actually consciously like engage with

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Speaker 1: with with the spirit realm or something. The only spirit

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Speaker 1: realm I'm engaging with is God and Jesus. That's all.

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Speaker 1: That's all I'm That's all the guys I'm talking to.

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Speaker 1: And this guy was like, it's no different than a

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Speaker 1: Wigi board, and I'm like, I reject that too, because

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Speaker 1: I I don't think darkness cares about where my gas

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Speaker 1: line is, or my or my dog or all. And

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Speaker 1: so all I'm saying humbly is I have I do

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Speaker 1: not understand it, but I know that that it works.

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Speaker 1: And it's not an exact science. I mean, like, if

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Speaker 1: you put me studies. There there have been, uh, but

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Speaker 1: this was the most interesting thing. If you would go

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Speaker 1: back and read all all those comments, there's a there

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Speaker 1: is a lot of.

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Speaker 2: This.

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Speaker 1: Guy says, Okay, his name is Brandon. He says, I

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Speaker 1: just saw your witch and stick video. I'm in Southeast

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Speaker 1: Texas and used to work in oil and gas. We

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Speaker 1: use them to find lines as last resort when nothing

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Speaker 1: else would work. From what I was told, the rods

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Speaker 1: will close towards each other when there's a break in

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Speaker 1: the Earth's natural magnetic field. I've used them a lot,

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Speaker 1: and there's a company that actually makes them for line locating.

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Speaker 1: It's a plastic handle with a collapsible rod that goes

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Speaker 1: inside of it. I've got one in my work truck

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Speaker 1: and I'll send you pictures of it. And he did.

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Speaker 1: He sent me pictures of his commercial witching sticks that

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Speaker 1: his oil and gas company provided provides for him.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy.

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Speaker 1: I mean so again, when I when I made the video,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I knew that it would stir up

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Speaker 1: some Yeah. So I had a guy like met private

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Speaker 1: message me that was just like Clay, I really respect

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Speaker 1: you and has a friend I want to just tell you. Basically,

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Speaker 1: he was like, you're an idiot, he said, this is

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Speaker 1: this is a pseudo site, like he couldn't believe that

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Speaker 1: I and I just wrote back and I said, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: I hear you. I understand, I said, but it just

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Speaker 1: works so dang good. And I just kind of fist

342
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Speaker 1: bumped him, you know, just like I don't know what

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Speaker 1: to say. It works, it does.

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Speaker 3: And I'm trying to find a video here. I saw

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Speaker 3: a post probably on Instagram a little while back. I

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Speaker 3: think I've got it here. It's a YouTube clip of

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Speaker 3: Oprah way back in the day. And she's holding this

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Speaker 3: she's holding this string. She's got a u some sort

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Speaker 3: of psychologist or something that she's holding this string and

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Speaker 3: dangling from the strings little nut or something piece of metal,

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Speaker 3: and she's holding it as still as she can. It's

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Speaker 3: it's still, and the and the guy tells her this, Uh,

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Speaker 3: imagine this nut swinging in a circle, and it starts

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Speaker 3: swinging in a circle, and she's holding it as still

355
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Speaker 3: as she can, and so subconsciously she's introducing minute movements

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Speaker 3: into this which is causing this. And he can tell her,

357
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Speaker 3: imagine it moving back and forth, and it does all

358
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Speaker 3: of these things.

359
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Speaker 2: And so you think it's that you think it's pseudoscience.

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Speaker 3: I think I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, well, I think finding water is pseudoscience. That's my others.

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Speaker 1: So it's just I can't. I cannot go find water.

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Speaker 1: Like there are lots of people in the Ozarks and

364
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Speaker 1: all over the country that they would back in especially

365
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Speaker 1: back in the day, would hire a water someone that

366
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Speaker 1: would water. Which'll well, so if you had a big

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Speaker 1: piece of property, like where is there the shallowest water,

368
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Speaker 1: you would go get this person and they would find

369
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Speaker 1: you water. I I don't call me when you need

370
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Speaker 1: your well drilled, call me when you need to find

371
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Speaker 1: your waterline, period period. So but tell me what what

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Speaker 1: do you think though? Like what what what do you

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Speaker 1: get from that?

374
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Speaker 3: I mean it, I don't have any experience with it.

375
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Speaker 3: So I'm talking from just you know, the outside looking in.

376
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Speaker 3: But it sure seems to me like the same things

377
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Speaker 3: happening with what was happening with Oprah Winfrey when she

378
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Speaker 3: was when this thing was moving over so she was

379
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Speaker 3: they even though you even though you say you know

380
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 3: you're you can't like I am not moving these rods,

381
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Speaker 3: Well she wasn't moving that that string.

382
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Speaker 1: But she was interesting. Well, when we get done with this.

383
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Speaker 1: We we should make it so and and I'll see

384
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Speaker 1: if you can find my sewer line over there. All right, fine,

385
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Speaker 1: sat tanks because he doesn't know where anything is.

386
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Speaker 3: Make a believer out of me and you just we'll see.

387
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Speaker 2: No.

388
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Speaker 1: I I don't want to argue with anybody. I just

389
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: am like this is this has been. This has worked

390
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: for me. So now we got that out of the way.

391
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: That's a real relief. So clay has been here. What

392
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Speaker 1: is this clay? That's a gator hide that you tanned? Yeah,

393
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Speaker 1: how did you tan that?

394
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 3: Well, there's a little bit of a process to it.

395
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 3: Like like most hides, you gotta uh dehare them. If

396
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Speaker 3: you're gonna make leather. Well, you've got to de scale those.

397
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Speaker 3: They have they have a Oh.

398
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Speaker 2: They do have a actual scale that comes up.

399
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Speaker 3: It's not like a fish scale. It's like, uh, well

400
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: they are kind of like fish scales, I guess. But

401
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 3: there's definitely an outer layer to those, to those.

402
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: Hides, like a snake kind of has.

403
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of like that. But you you would soak

404
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: that h you flesh it first, and I fleshed that

405
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 3: with a with a pressure washer. Okay, that's the easiest

406
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: way to do. Gator fleshed it and then soaked it

407
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: in a five gallon bucket with lime and just polarized limestone.

408
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: And that's a that's an alkaline thing that makes the

409
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,479
Speaker 3: hide swell up and it loosens. If you did if

410
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 3: you did a piece, if you did a deer hide,

411
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 3: it caused the hair to loosen. You just wipe it

412
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 3: off with your hand nice and with that it causes

413
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: the scales loosen. You can just again just wipe them off.

414
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 3: That right there, that's his belly, yep. I didn't I

415
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: And that's the way that you know most unless you're

416
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 3: gonna do it for a mount or something, you do

417
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: what they call I think hornback or something like that,

418
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Speaker 3: and you'd have that that those plates on the back.

419
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Speaker 3: But if you're gonna make leather, that's what you do.

420
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Speaker 2: Did you harvest that gator?

421
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? Those came from Louisiana, got those several years ago.

422
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 3: I've got a friend down there and it's got some

423
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: property down south. Uh normal ones. But then that's just

424
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 3: done with nothing but oak bark. And take a bunch

425
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: of oak bark, yep, and steep it in hot water

426
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: and it's it draws those tannins out. Throw that thing

427
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: right in there, and it soaked the hide, soaks up

428
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: the tannins. And you have to go through several changes

429
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 3: of water, you know, changes of that solution, but eventually

430
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: it soaks up as much.

431
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: As it's each time.

432
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the way I do it is, I've got

433
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 3: a I've got a keg, like a stainless steel keg.

434
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: Cut the top out of it and it makes a

435
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: you know, big nice bruepot or a you know, fill

436
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: it up with with bark, fill it up with water,

437
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 3: and heat it up until it's simmering. And then just

438
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: cut the cut the heat and just let it let

439
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,239
Speaker 3: it simmer or let it sit there and steep and

440
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: basically making tea.

441
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: M hm.

442
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: And uh. Put that into a non reactive container they're

443
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: plastic or stainless or something like that, and soak your

444
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 3: hide in it, and and uh it takes for something

445
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 3: that thick, it'll take, you know, a month, six weeks,

446
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: but you're you're having to, like, it'll soak up all

447
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: the tannins and the color the liquid changes. It'll be

448
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 3: like a dart red tea color, like a nice pretty

449
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: color to start with. And then as that soaks it up,

450
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 3: it just kind of turns like a pale, like a

451
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: yellow color, and then toss that out put more more

452
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: liquid in there.

453
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: So having that in there for six weeks doesn't break

454
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 2: that that leather down.

455
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: No, it's the tannins are preservative. Uh. And that's that's

456
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: one of the reasons, like when they that's why they

457
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: started putting hops and beer, is my understanding, is because

458
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: tops are a they have tannins in them, and that's

459
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: that bitterness, and that's it was. It was a preservative

460
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 3: back before, you know, when they're just putting in wooden kegs.

461
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: Hmm. Interesting. So is that tan is good as a

462
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: commercial tan like you might get from a Yeah, is

463
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: it really?

464
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

465
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: So it'll lasts a lifetime.

466
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. You could take that hide right there, dig a

467
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 3: hole in your yard and bury it, come back three

468
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 3: years later and it'd still be there.

469
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: Really, that is cool. That make a nice pair of boots.

470
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: Have you ever backed a bow with gator skin?

471
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 3: I haven't, but I've I've thought about it. I've thought

472
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 3: about I think the the sides of the tail, you know,

473
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 3: if you're on a small gator, like if you had

474
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 3: a if he had a tail that was maybe two

475
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 3: feet long or something like that. I think that'd be cool.

476
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: Bear show us your bow. So this is what I've

477
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: been working on. I'm gonna use it as a bow

478
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: fishing bow, but it's been turning out pretty good so far,

479
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: so I'll probably also use it as a hunting bow.

480
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: But I've got sturgeon skins on the back of this one.

481
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: That is cool. Man. Yeah, I got him from a

482
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: guy in North Carolina who I guess he lives next

483
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: to like a sturgeon farm. These are like farm sturgeon,

484
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: like wild sturgeon. But uh, yeah, it's pretty that the

485
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: finish is that the way it's gonna be. I mean,

486
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: it's finished. You put something on it. I've got to

487
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: put something on it and then kind of just do

488
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: some finish work sandpaper when you run your hand down that. Yeah,

489
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: I need to.

490
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: It is It is such an a weird did you

491
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 2: feel that? It's like a weird texture to it. It's

492
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 2: like a cat's tongue.

493
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, why did you ever touch a cat's tongue?

494
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: Well, you know cat's tongue has barbs on it.

495
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know that, Josh.

496
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: How many cats have you killed? Killed a ton of cats.

497
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: Well what mountain wion, mountain bobcats?

498
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not house cats. Let's just classify it. Didn't

499
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: stick my finger in their mouth either. That's weirder than

500
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: witch and sticks. True. That's a cool bow. I like it.

501
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: So that's gonna be your bowfish and bow. Yeah, but

502
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: I'll probably also the way I want to design. I've

503
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: kind of got an idea in mind right now where

504
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: I can just like basically bolt on like a bow

505
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: fishing reel and then just take it off and it'll

506
00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: be a hunting bow.

507
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: I have a video on my YouTube channel that shows

508
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: you how to make a bow fishing real little that

509
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: that fits on those bows really nicely. Really his man

510
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: out of a bean can and a hacks All blade.

511
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: I need to check that out.

512
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 3: It's you can make one in ten minutes and they

513
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 3: work really good.

514
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: There you go.

515
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: Now, did you you did not make a bow fishing

516
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: rig on the Alone show? You made a fishing reel.

517
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was but I'd made one. I'd

518
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 3: made one of those, or made a couple of them

519
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: actually before I went out there. That was part of

520
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: my I knew I was going to do that.

521
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was pretty incredible he made Do you remember

522
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: that bear when he made the I don't really even

523
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: remember what it was like. But you were able to

524
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: take with you a spool of a spool of fishing line. Yeah,

525
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: and then you carved a reel out of wood, like

526
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: a functional fishing reel.

527
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was made like it would it

528
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: would cast like an open face spinning reel. So I

529
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: had two pegs, one sticking straight out front, one sticking

530
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 3: to the side so that reel. I would stick it

531
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: on there, and I had islets made out of a

532
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,239
Speaker 3: snare wire and I could I mean, it cast just

533
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: like a spinning run. And then I couldn't reel it

534
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: like that, so I'd take it off and stick it

535
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: on that peg on the side and then I could

536
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 3: reel it. So it was like a they make one.

537
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: There's a there's a no, I can't remember what they're called,

538
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 3: but there's a I think there's a real that's out

539
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: of Australia or New Zealand that flips like that, and

540
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: I can't remember what they're called.

541
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: Oh, like a commercial reel.

542
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're available, Clay.

543
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: I haven't seen the season that you were on yet.

544
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: How long did you stay out? Hold on, sorry, I'm

545
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: way down the road.

546
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: This is like like we need to we need before

547
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 1: we release that information, which the world knows already how

548
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: long you stayed, But we're gonna that's like the meat

549
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: on the bone. So that the question was like, I'm sorry, Josh,

550
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: we have already acted. We would like to react.

551
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 3: Question.

552
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: That's like that's like your your your kid reaching up

553
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: and grabbing like the choice piece of meat and like

554
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: trying to chomp into it before they even said the prayer.

555
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: But who likes who doesn't like the choice meat?

556
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Yeah? You were after the choice meet? Yep, Clay, how

557
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: long were you out there?

558
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: No?

559
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: No, no, give it? Give a spiel about just like

560
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: what is Alone? I mean, I think everybody would know,

561
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: but maybe some people wouldn't. And it's like, yeah, I mean,

562
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: and how did you get involved in it?

563
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: So? Alone is a TV show that I think they're

564
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: on their like thirteenth season or something like that now.

565
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 3: It's been going on for a pretty good while. In

566
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: the the premise is that there's ten people and you

567
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 3: get to choose ten items from a list. You can't

568
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: just bring whatever you want. There's a very specific list

569
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 3: that you get to choose from very basic survival items

570
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 3: an ax a, saw, a pot, that stuff like that,

571
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: very basic stuff. Aw a bow and arrow counts as

572
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: one item if you want to take that. Uh. And

573
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: they take these ten people and they take them far

574
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: out into the wilderness and drop them off alone in

575
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: ten different places, and basically it's the last person standing wins,

576
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 3: the last person out there wins. And it's I mean,

577
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 3: it's having gone through that, like having gone through that

578
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 3: and having been associated with other television shows in a

579
00:32:54,800 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: variety of capacities. That's it. Like people ask, you know,

580
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: you always run into skepticism, like they're just whatever, it's legit.

581
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 3: Like when they drop you off, you're on your own.

582
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: They do not. There's no catered meals.

583
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: There's all self filmed, right, it's all self filmed.

584
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: There's no camera guys out there with you. You are

585
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: literally alone to make a living with whatever ten items

586
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 3: you brought. They do come back and check on you,

587
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: make sure you're not dead, yeah, or getting you know,

588
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: got your leg chewed off, and you have the ability.

589
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 3: You have a satellite communicator. So if you ever want

590
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: to leave, you just tell them come and get me

591
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 3: I'm done, and they'll come and get you. And that's

592
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 3: how that that's you know, that's how you end up

593
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 3: with one person. Yeah, people tap out or or so

594
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 3: they're they're removed because of either malnutrition or there some

595
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: health issue.

596
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: And so you were on it actually took place in

597
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty and you were in British Columbia.

598
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: Yep.

599
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: Was it like just like National Forest or Crown Land

600
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: in Columbia.

601
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: It's native ground and that's usually I think what they

602
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 3: do because they can. I don't know all the reasons,

603
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 3: but I think they they have some leeway with hunting

604
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 3: and fishing regulations. Okay on those grounds.

605
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So are you bound by hunting and fishing regulations?

606
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: Yes?

607
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, So what were the parameters when you were there?

608
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: You could kill a deer, You could kill a black bear,

609
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: no bears, no bears.

610
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: I don't under I still don't understand that you couldn't

611
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 3: kill a black bear. You got one deer, one deer.

612
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: Get Yeah, you had permission to kill one deer. And

613
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 3: you think you know, I got comments like when you

614
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 3: know you kill that deer, you're set. But I guarantee

615
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: any one person in this room could eat an entire

616
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 3: deer in three weeks, done, all gone, if you're eating

617
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 3: nothing but that deer, and so you know, that's not

618
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 3: enough to sustain a grown man for months at a time.

619
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 3: And so even though I did end up killing a deer,

620
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: but I had to ration it really sparsely, like I

621
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 3: was eating very very little. I'd like to know how

622
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 3: many calories I was eating, you know, each day, but

623
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 3: it was not a lot.

624
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you went into alone. I remember you try.

625
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: You were trying to gain weight. So what did you weigh?

626
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: Going in one hundred and eighty pounds, which was heavy

627
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: for you.

628
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 3: That's way heavy.

629
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: You've probably never been there.

630
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 3: I'd never been. I don't think i'd ever been over

631
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 3: one sixty five.

632
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: So you packed on twenty pounds. Yeah, and just like

633
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: just eating junk food. Is that I'm putting words in

634
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: your mouth? Is that what you did?

635
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 3: No? I mean my wife Liz did it all. She

636
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 3: like I couldn't have done that without her. She was

637
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 3: cooking like I was. I was eating like a loaded

638
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: baked potato every day and just eating so much that

639
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 3: I was just constantly I was never not uncomfortably full,

640
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 3: just like stuffed. I hated it, but that's what I

641
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 3: had to do.

642
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: How long did you do that? How long did it

643
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: take you to gain that way?

644
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 3: Probably five months I started.

645
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: That's wild is that like eighty percent of men in

646
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,959
Speaker 1: this country would not have that problem at all. These

647
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: two guys would bear and Clay I could put I

648
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: could put on twenty pounds yep, pretty quick.

649
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, but I started, like I started

650
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 3: gaining weight. I knew it was gonna be difficult. I

651
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 3: started trying to gain weight before I even knew I

652
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 3: was gonna be on the show.

653
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: Really yeah, I mean when it was like a possibility.

654
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, from the first contact with the with the casting director,

655
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 3: I was like, it's pretty get a chance. I'm gonna

656
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: be on this thing. So I started trying to gain weight,

657
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 3: and it was not an easy thing to do.

658
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 2: Is this something that you like applied for?

659
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 3: You can apply for it, but that I was actually

660
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: recommended by a former participant and they contacted me. But

661
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: there's other folks like Jordan Jonas. He put in and

662
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 3: he was the winner of season six. I think he

663
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: put in his application along with forty thousand other people

664
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 3: or however many. I mean, that's a bunch of people

665
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: that apply to be on that. Yeah.

666
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they kind of pick and choose probably who

667
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: they think is going to be good at it successful or.

668
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: I think they. I think they based their choices on

669
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 3: a variety of criteria. One is, one is that you

670
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 3: could do it still, One is skill. One is h

671
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 3: who they think is going to be who the audience

672
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: is going to connect with. So there's death, there's there's

673
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: more stuff than just like you know how good you

674
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: are in the woods? Yeah?

675
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, so you start gain and wait, at

676
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: what point did you know you were going on the show?

677
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: Like a couple of months before I was.

678
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 3: The kind of a funny thing is I didn't know.

679
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: I didn't know for sure that I was going to

680
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: go out until two days before I went out.

681
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: Are you serious?

682
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah? Because I was cast as an alternate really yeah,

683
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: And so I went up there. The only reason I

684
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 3: got on is because they cast someone from the UK

685
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 3: and this was right in the middle of COVID and

686
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 3: he couldn't come because they had all that they had

687
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 3: to travel, you know, shut down. Yeah, and that's the

688
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 3: only reason I was able to get on the show.

689
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: Really, So you were you were an alternate. So two

690
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: days before you're in Idaho.

691
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: No no, no, I went to So when they when you,

692
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: they only ten people go out in the field, but

693
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: they actually take twelve to location. And so because this

694
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: was in the middle of COVID, we had a two

695
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 3: week quarantine and then a ten day at ten or

696
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 3: twelve day orientation period at the not at location, but

697
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: near nearer there. And that whole time that it was

698
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 3: me and another we knew one of us was going on,

699
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 3: but they wouldn't never tell us who it was, and

700
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 3: they were just waiting to see.

701
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: So they had twelve people there in case like something

702
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: happened to one of the ten.

703
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 3: Yes.

704
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: But so you're up there thinking you're not even going

705
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: to be on the show.

706
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: Do you knew you were an alternate?

707
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: I knew, Yeah, I was. I knew it was an

708
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: alternate because they told me that before. Like, you know,

709
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 3: I was talking to the casting director and she's like,

710
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: I can't remember exactly how it went, but uh, she said,

711
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 3: we've we've got all the ten spots filled, but would

712
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 3: you accept being an alternate? And I was like, you know,

713
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: I was kind of kicking the balls. Yeah, I had to.

714
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 3: I st them to think about that, and I took

715
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 3: a day and thought about it. I was like, you know,

716
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: if there's an opera.

717
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: Stakes were high, yeah, like if it worked out, it

718
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: would be really yeah significant.

719
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, And anyway, I ended up I ended up accepting it.

720
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: I was like, well, I mean, we didn't know at

721
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 3: this time, Like I didn't know if this guy, I

722
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 3: didn't even know that was going to be an issue.

723
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 3: You know that he wouldn't be able to come. So

724
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, you know, he's coming, and I'm just going

725
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: to be there, And you know, I was like, well,

726
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 3: at the very least, I'll get to meet some cool people.

727
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: And you would have gone there and just gone home

728
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: when they went out, Yeah, okay, yeah, so you're like

729
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: on deck. Yeah, and then two days before they go

730
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: you're in the show.

731
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: Yep. Wow.

732
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: They take you out to this location. And how much

733
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: do you think the location matters for success? Like, I

734
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: guess how much variation is there in locations they're on

735
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: a single show.

736
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: I think there can be a lot. I never saw

737
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 3: anyone else's location, but just from looking at the footage

738
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 3: and talking to people, I think there's a lot of

739
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 3: variation and.

740
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: How big of a range was everybody in.

741
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 3: We were on a lake, Chilco Lake, which is I

742
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 3: think something like fifty miles. I could be mistaken about

743
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 3: that big. I think we were spread out for fifty

744
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 3: miles along.

745
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: This so you were probably five to ten miles from

746
00:41:58,719 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: someone else.

747
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and they have you know, you're supposed to

748
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: carry a tracker with the a GPS tracker, and so

749
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 3: if you they have a boundary, and like when you

750
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 3: when you're they dropped us off on a boat and

751
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: when you're when you're going up there, you know, getting

752
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 3: dropped off, they say, you know this ridge top and

753
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 3: you know, they kind of point out the boundaries, but

754
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 3: you can't really unless you're in the air, which some

755
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 3: of them are dropped off in the air. You know,

756
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 3: it's on other seasons that they have a better I

757
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,959
Speaker 3: would I feel like anyway, they'd have a better idea

758
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 3: where their boundaries are, which is handy because I didn't

759
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 3: know exactly where my boundaries were until I hit them

760
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,959
Speaker 3: and then they start beeping. You like, turn around, go back,

761
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 3: and you're like, well, hell, I just spent the last

762
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 3: five hours trying to get over here, and now you're

763
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: now I got to go back. Really yeah, they only

764
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 3: did that to me a couple of times, but there

765
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 3: was one.

766
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: Time you were pushing the boundaries. Oh yeah, it wasn't

767
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: that big of an area then it was big.

768
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 3: But I I mean I walk and I wanted, like

769
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: you have to do well and to be able to

770
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 3: exploit the resources, you got to know what's on there.

771
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 3: And the only only reason, the only way to know,

772
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 3: they don't show you a map. I mean, it's basically

773
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 3: you just like you're going somewhere you've never been before.

774
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 3: And on top of that, when we went in, there

775
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 3: was a bunch of wildfires to the south of us

776
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 3: and all that smoke was blowing up there, so the

777
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 3: visibility was less than a mile, like you couldn't see anything.

778
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 3: And so you're basically going out there blindfolded and they're

779
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: dropping you off, say good luck, and so you think about,

780
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 3: you know, being out on a drop hunt like that

781
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: where you don't you don't get to pick your spot,

782
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 3: you don't even get to look at any aerial photographs

783
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 3: or anything before you go out there. You just like

784
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 3: dropped off and then you have to figure it out,

785
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 3: well you know where you know, to figure out where

786
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 3: the critters are, you gotta walk the you gotta walk it. Yeah.

787
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 3: And there was one time where I could see from

788
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 3: from uh, you know, part of my area. I could

789
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 3: see that there was up this slope there was like

790
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 3: a little bench, and I was like, well, that looks

791
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 3: like a good a place where critters would come across. Well,

792
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 3: I got three quarters of the way there and they

793
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: and it was up some nasty hillside that was brushed

794
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: in and just nasty walking. I got three quarters away

795
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 3: there and they ding me.

796
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: That turned around and you take them back. But there's

797
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: a sweet little funnel up there. I probably got some

798
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 1: elk coming through. What about that mountain? Didn't you see

799
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: a mountain lion?

800
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? It was uh, I think it was the second

801
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: or third day there. Right at my camp. I was

802
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: just sitting down by a campfire and just kind of

803
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 3: minding my own business, and this red squirrel ten yards

804
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 3: behind me shot up a tree started barking. I was like, oh,

805
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: that's weird. And I turned around. There was a mountain

806
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 3: line and he wasn't I mean, he was less than

807
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: ten yards from me looking at me, and he was

808
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 3: kind of crouched down in the bush. And I had

809
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 3: the camera there and I got him on film and everything,

810
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 3: the cameras rolling, but my bow was twenty yards away

811
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 3: at my where my uh I had strung up a

812
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 3: tart for a temporary shelter. And I is one of

813
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 3: those you know, hindsight things. I what I tried to

814
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,479
Speaker 3: do was I tried to just kind of ease back

815
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: over there. Well, when I took a step away from him,

816
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 3: he took he turnedtail and faded into the bushes, and

817
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 3: I ran after him, trying to get him the tree,

818
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 3: but he was gone. And I, you know, in hindsight,

819
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 3: what I should have done was right when I saw him,

820
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 3: I should have just ran at him, and he probably

821
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 3: would have popped up a tree and I probably could

822
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 3: have got to my bow.

823
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: But I legally could have killed him.

824
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And when they when they told us that,

825
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: it's like it was what we were going to get

826
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 3: to hunt was in negotiation for a long time and

827
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 3: we didn't get I didn't know, we didn't know what

828
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: we were going until maybe a week before we went out.

829
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 3: We didn't even know we were going to get be

830
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: able to have shoot a deer. And so they're like, oh,

831
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 3: by the way, you can, you know you can? You

832
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 3: can kill a mountain lion and uh, maybe even a links.

833
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: And it was like, well we're out, great, thanks, good luck,

834
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 3: good luck. Like I've spent my life in the woods,

835
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: I've never seen one. Well they two have one ten

836
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 3: yards behind me looking at me.

837
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: Unbelievable.

838
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I thought.

839
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember that scene, and I remember you

840
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: discussing with the camera that you should have run at it.

841
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: You know what I thought when when you said that.

842
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: You know, you watch television and you see these survival

843
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: people and most well I don't. I the world knew

844
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: you were legit when you said I should have charged

845
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: that mountain lion, and it would have tried, like I don't.

846
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: You can be in bushcraft and yeah, and but but

847
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,439
Speaker 1: only a hunter would know that that would work. Because

848
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: when he said that, I was like, why, I bet

849
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 1: he could have you know what I mean? Yeah, because

850
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: they you can do that with a bear. I mean,

851
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: if you see a bear come up close on a

852
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: black bear, nobody agrees but run at them. And there

853
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: their flight responses typically to go up a tree, you know.

854
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: But no, no, that was a that was wild. You

855
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: even got him on camera. That's that to me seems

856
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: to be the challenge with with that whole scenarios you're

857
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: filming and like just getting something, getting anything on film

858
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: to show people without just telling them just like hey,

859
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: I just saw a mountain lion.

860
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you got one of the things that I mean,

861
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 3: that's one of the things that they really drilled into

862
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 3: our heads before when we went out is just let

863
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: the camera roll. It doesn't matter if anything, if there's

864
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 3: nothing going on, leave the camera on. Let it roll.

865
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: Because they believe you had like stacks and I had, yeah,

866
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: unbelievable amounts of batteries.

867
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah that they we had a big Pelican case that

868
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 3: was I mean it was big. It's probably it's probably

869
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 3: the biggest pelican case they make. And it was like

870
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 3: that big that or that wide, and you know, maybe

871
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 3: two feet deep and like fourteen inches deep, and that

872
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 3: thing was just chock full. We had extra cameras, go

873
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: pros and just you know, pounds and pounds of batteries

874
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 3: and media cards. And so when they when they came

875
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: out to do their med checks, they would that they

876
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 3: would swap out they would get our old are filled

877
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 3: up media cards, give us fresh ones, and then swap

878
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 3: out batteries. Yeah.

879
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: Interesting so you didn't have any way to charge anything.

880
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 3: No, they didn't have any way to charge anything. We

881
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 3: had a battery bank, but the only thing I ever

882
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 3: used that for was maybe charging like uh, the little

883
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 3: satellite communicator thing.

884
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you how did you establish where your home

885
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,479
Speaker 1: base was? It was it just right on the lake.

886
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 3: It ended up being I I was. I think I

887
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 3: was the last one to set up a permanent shelter.

888
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 3: They had to. They were they had to like suggest

889
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 3: like it's probably time to set up.

890
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: They texted you that.

891
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 3: No, when they came out to do their med check

892
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 3: one time. How many days in I don't know, it

893
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: was probably ten days in or something like that.

894
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: And you were just kind of floating around with a tarp.

895
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. They they needed I think they needed to know

896
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 3: where I Was going to be so that they could

897
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 3: get like a safety plan, like if something happened, you know,

898
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 3: if I there was grizzly everywhere like there that that's

899
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,439
Speaker 3: one of the highest grizzly densities I think in North

900
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 3: America up there. Wow. And so they you know, they

901
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: have a safety crew that's ready to respond in case

902
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 3: somebody calls in and you know, something's something's going on.

903
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 3: So they're trying to get their plans together, like how

904
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 3: they're going to respond to something. But I didn't set

905
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 3: up a permanent shelter because I want I didn't want

906
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 3: to just set it up where they dropped me off.

907
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 3: I wanted to check out my area first. I wanted

908
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 3: to set it up in the best possible spot, and

909
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: so I was just scouting and it turned out that

910
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 3: where they dropped me was the best spot that I found.

911
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 3: So I ended up setting it right there, just right

912
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 3: where they dropped pretty much.

913
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: And that that had to do with proximity to good hunting,

914
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: proximity to water.

915
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: Water hunting, food resources, berry patches, you know, just a

916
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: whole variety of things. But that where they dropped me

917
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 3: was I was kind of right at the where a

918
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: couple of different habitat types came together, so there was

919
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: edge there, you know, a good place to set snares,

920
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 3: you know. I didn't want to have to I didn't

921
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: want to have to travel a long way to run

922
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: a trap.

923
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: Line, yeah, or to find you know, I think that

924
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: would probably be the I hadn't really thought about that.

925
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: But if they dropped you off and you had this

926
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: huge area, I mean, I assume your area was many

927
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: square miles.

928
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 3: I don't really know how big it was. It was

929
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 3: several it was several square miles.

930
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and so you know you can't. It's just like,

931
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: where do you camp when you hunt? Like you're always

932
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: that would be a question you'd always answer because you

933
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: don't want to be too far away from where you hunt,

934
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: But you also don't want to be right in the

935
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: middle of where the game is you'll spook them. So

936
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: like finding that balance. And usually in my life I

937
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: end up camping too far away from where I'm hunting,

938
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: and you know, having to walk so far to get

939
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: to the good hunting, you know, But yeah, that would

940
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: be interesting. What question did you have? What time of year?

941
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? What what time of year did you start?

942
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 3: We started mid September and then my season I think

943
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 3: went to the end of the through the end of November,

944
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 3: so it was getting pretty it's getting pretty chilly towards it.

945
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: So okay, on the show, what's the longest anybody's ever

946
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: said out?

947
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 3: They did a they did a season season seven I think,

948
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 3: where it was one hundred day challenge, so you had

949
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 3: to make it to one hundred days. I think you

950
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 3: had to make it to one hundred days to win

951
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 3: the thing, but it was a million bucks too. Wow. Yeah,

952
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 3: I wish I was wishing that they would have I

953
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 3: could have stayed out there one hundred days.

954
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so one hundred days is the longest anybody on

955
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: a loan as ever stayed.

956
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think eighty seven day. I could be wrong

957
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 3: on that, but something like that. Yeah.

958
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: With with the it's not I guess it's not apples

959
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: to apples. It's because every location is different. And I

960
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: remember them saying that on your season, the hunting was

961
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: very difficult, like you were the only one that killed

962
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:16,439
Speaker 1: the deer.

963
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was just a it was a

964
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 3: high elevation, really unproductive habitat. And I was there for

965
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 3: two and a half months and I saw two.

966
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: Deer and and you killed one of them, and I

967
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: killed one of them. And that's that's unbelievable.

968
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.

969
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: I find it using thousand rods.

970
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 2: That falls up the dark spirits we just want to witch.

971
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't gonna tell anybody about that.

972
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 1: So well, okay, so you yeah, you killed a deer. Man,

973
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: it was on the when we were following along. I

974
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: mean It's like when he killed that deer. I mean,

975
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: it was like awesome, you know, because you're just like,

976
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Clay just killed a deer, and you know,

977
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: and the way they build it up, you know, like

978
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: everybody else is struggling, and you know, this person's starving,

979
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 1: has been eating mushrooms. It's been a couple of years

980
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: since I've actually watched the deal, but we were, we

981
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: were watching it and uh and he kills a deer

982
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: and you just almost can't believe it, you know, Yeah, yeah,

983
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: because I know how hard it is. Number One, to

984
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: kill a deer with us traditional bow out here over

985
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: a pile of corn is hard, very hard. And then

986
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: to do it off the ground load density like that,

987
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it just was meant to be.

988
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 3: It was, Yeah, I mean, that was I am not.

989
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: I mean, I've killed a lot of animals with self bows, deer, bear, oggs,

990
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 3: I mean, all sorts of elk, all sorts of stuff,

991
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: and I have never had an emotional reaction to any

992
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 3: animal like I had when I walked up on that

993
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 3: deer and saw that deer laying in the in the

994
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 3: in the grass.

995
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:17,919
Speaker 2: How far in was it before you killed it? Three weeks, okay.

996
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, which was probably perfect.

997
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 3: It was, yeah, because if you killed.

998
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: It on the first day, you know, I mean, I

999
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: don't you know, but three weeks in that's pretty good timing.

1000
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 3: It was good timing because you know, the fishing really

1001
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 3: I had caught a few fish to start with and

1002
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 3: had a very small surplus. Like I was, I was

1003
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 3: really trying to stretch the food that I could get

1004
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 3: as far as I can stretch it. And so I

1005
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 3: would catch a fish, you know, and I might eat

1006
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: like i'd catch a say, a twenty inch trout. I'd

1007
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 3: eat like one quarter of one filet, you know, in

1008
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: a day, and that's all I would eat, maybe some

1009
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 3: mushrooms and so you're talking, I don't know how many

1010
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 3: calories that.

1011
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: Would be, what three hundred calories, four.

1012
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 3: Hundred calories something like that. And so I'd caught a

1013
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 3: few fish and I'd smoked them and trying to you know,

1014
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 3: just trying to preserve the meat.

1015
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: But I'd caught you were smoking them.

1016
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 3: Yep, I'd caught all of those. All the fish that

1017
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 3: I caught, I caught within like a two or three

1018
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: day period. And then which was like the first week,

1019
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 3: and so by the time I had killed that deer,

1020
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 3: I hadn't caught a fish for like ten twelve days,

1021
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 3: a fish in every single day, for hours a day.

1022
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 3: And so you got this happened.

1023
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: Why why couldn't you catch them?

1024
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think we. I think we got

1025
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 3: a little cold snap and they I couldn't find them

1026
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: in the shallows anymore. I wasn't getting bites or anything.

1027
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 3: I just they just weren't there. And so you got

1028
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 3: this little stash of you know, food, and you know

1029
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,240
Speaker 3: that if you don't find more food, you're not gonna

1030
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 3: be able to stay. You know, I don't have enough.

1031
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 3: I don't have enough body weight to stay out there,

1032
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 3: to just sit there and starve. And so it's very stressful,

1033
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 3: Like I can see my time coming to an end

1034
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 3: because I cannot catch a fish. I'm at this point

1035
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 3: there's no snow cover, so I'm not snaring I'm not

1036
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 3: catching you rabbits, I'm not I've maybe shot a grouse

1037
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 3: or two by that time.

1038
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: Now, was that tape of hunting not pretty productive? Like

1039
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: trying to shoot a red squirrel or grass squirrels were

1040
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: off limits? Oh no, because they're a fur bear in

1041
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: Canada and they wouldn't. We couldn't take fur bears.

1042
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, So I could snare I could hunt rabbits

1043
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,439
Speaker 3: and snare rabbits, but I wasn't seeing any I didn't

1044
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: start catching. Still, we got some some snow cover. But

1045
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 3: you know, you think about you think about it. Uh,

1046
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 3: you know it's it's It was stressful for me because

1047
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 3: I knew that my time, like, I wasn't gonna be

1048
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 3: able to stay there. And so when I did kill

1049
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: that deer and saw him laying there in the grass,

1050
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 3: it was like all of that pressure is just gone.

1051
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 3: It's just like I've never experienced like a release, a

1052
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 3: pressure release like that. It's like like the weight of

1053
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 3: the world is just like off your shoulders. Yeah.

1054
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: Do you feel like that was the deciding factor of

1055
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: you being able to stay out longer than everybody else?

1056
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have been able. I didn't I wasn't catching

1057
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 3: enough fish, and I wouldn't have been able to do

1058
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 3: it on rabbits and grouse. And I didn't have the

1059
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 3: body condition because by the time I shot that deer

1060
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 3: three weeks in, I was already back. I had already

1061
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 3: lost I'd lost a pound a day. Wow, I was

1062
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 3: already I estimate anyway, they would never let us look

1063
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 3: at the scale, but just bejauging by how I looked

1064
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 3: and you know how my clothes felt like. Yeah, normally

1065
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 3: I was like, I am not right now. I'm probably

1066
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty pounds right now. And so you know,

1067
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 3: I was going to be going into a deficit after that.

1068
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 3: And I continued to decline in my weight, like by

1069
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 3: a lot. But I eventually my body, my body weight

1070
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 3: and muscle mass, we'd reached an equilibrium with what I

1071
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 3: was able to bring in and I stopped losing weight.

1072
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 3: I think I got down to one hundred and forty pounds. Wow.

1073
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 3: So I looked like, you know, my my abs. If

1074
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 3: I were to pinch my skin and the fat, that's

1075
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 3: what it looked like. There was zero fat. Like if

1076
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 3: you take your forearm and just pinch the skin.

1077
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: On it, like you're saying on your belly.

1078
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, if I did that, that's what it looked like.

1079
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: There's nothing there.

1080
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 3: There was no fat at all. Wow.

1081
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is amazing.

1082
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: You know, well, him describing killing that deer in the

1083
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: sense of relief I've I've thought about. I mean, this

1084
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: is kind of an artificial situation today in the modern

1085
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: world to send someone out and say survive, kill something

1086
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: with primitive weapons or snares or whatever for your survival.

1087
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: And it's kind of cool because we can kind of

1088
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: artificially make this thing that because there's so much at stake.

1089
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: It's actually probably pretty similar to a real kind of

1090
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: like paleolithic existence. I mean, other than the saws and

1091
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: not some of the tools you had. But I just

1092
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 1: I just think about the people. Their actual survival was

1093
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: their act, their their literal survival. Not not excitement because

1094
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: we killed a deer because we're we're hunting and we

1095
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: want to bring food home to our family so we

1096
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: don't have to eat you know, beef, but like literally

1097
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: people that would kill a deer and that would make

1098
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: them survive through a travel or something, a journey. I

1099
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: mean it happened, yeah, period, like people.

1100
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 3: You know, I wish that I wish that everyone could

1101
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 3: experience that that gratefulness for like I mean, just I

1102
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 3: was overjoyed with when I saw that deer, Like I mean,

1103
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 3: I was overcome with emotion. Never I've never experienced anything

1104
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 3: like that before or since.

1105
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable. So you kill this deer on like the

1106
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: twenty first.

1107
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 3: Day or so somewhere around there.

1108
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,959
Speaker 1: Youah, and you have no sense of what anybody else

1109
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: is doing. You don't know anything. You don't know if

1110
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: nine eight people have dropped off and you're going against one,

1111
01:01:54,240 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 1: did you have any sensation or any any inkling, I mean,

1112
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: did you think you were going to win? Of course,

1113
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: does everybody think they're going to win.

1114
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 3: That's an interesting question, and my opinion is that no,

1115
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 3: not everyone thinks they're going to win, and that's why

1116
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 3: people that's why people leave in the first week or

1117
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 3: first couple of days. Yeah, you know, I think that.

1118
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 3: I think that in order to push yourself through the

1119
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 3: discomfort and the not only the physical discomfort discomfort, but

1120
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 3: the emotional anguish of being separated from your family with

1121
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 3: no contact at all, no word at all, in order

1122
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 3: to push yourself through those things, you have to believe

1123
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: that you're going to win, because if you don't.

1124
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: It's not really worth it.

1125
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 3: Well, there's a thousand there's a thousand and one excuses

1126
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 3: to leave. I mean they are easy too, finn Yeah, like, oh,

1127
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 3: my sight is to variable. You know, so and So's

1128
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 3: got it. He must have a bears or somebody's killed

1129
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,959
Speaker 3: a this or that, or I mean you can find

1130
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: reasons to leave. Yeah, finding reasons to stay is not

1131
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 3: as easy.

1132
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you halate that that would be just

1133
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: the ultimate conflict on a very micro scale. And I

1134
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: think everyone here would could identify with this. Imagine being

1135
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: on a deer stand at about nine thirty in the morning,

1136
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: and you go, man, I could sit here till noon,

1137
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: or I could get down and go do some work,

1138
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: I could get down and have some breakfast. I could

1139
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: get home and go see my wife, or I could

1140
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: go Yeah, I'm joking, right, but it's like the same,

1141
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: Like there's a thousand reasons to get out of the tree. Yeah,

1142
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: that are all like very valid. But then you know,

1143
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: you make the decision, well, I'm gonna sit till noon

1144
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: no matter what. It's nothing like that. It was kind

1145
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: of a joke. But the point is I understand what

1146
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: you mean. Like I watching you do it do that,

1147
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: And that was the first season of the Loan, that

1148
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: full season that I ever watched, And you know, I

1149
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: guess everyone does it, but you put yourself in that situation,

1150
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: and I mean I already thought of fifty reasons why

1151
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: I should go home. Yeah, I mean, you know, in

1152
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: the way they edit the films, and and also just

1153
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:32,479
Speaker 1: what actually happens is that you start to see these

1154
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: characters kind of erode. You know, they do one little

1155
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: thing or they say one little thing, and you're like,

1156
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: they're gonna in two episodes, they're gonna be gone. Ye,

1157
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: you know. And I guess there's there's surprises of people

1158
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: that maybe something really fortunate happens when they start to

1159
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: go down. We are one of your buddies that you know,

1160
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: and I know, yeah, Kup Hoover Keby Harrow stuck in

1161
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: his leg.

1162
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw. I talked to him before he went out. Actually,

1163
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 3: I think on the phone just he had I don't

1164
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 3: I don't remember what the conversation was, but he had

1165
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 3: some questions about he knew he was going on there. Yeah, yeah,

1166
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 3: that was unfortunate.

1167
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh.

1168
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 2: Obviously this show is made to be challenging and demanding.

1169
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: What would you say was the most difficult part of it?

1170
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,479
Speaker 2: Was it the finding food? Was it? The mental game?

1171
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 3: Was it? I think it's the mental emotional game. There

1172
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 3: was I've talked about that, talked about this before another podcasts,

1173
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 3: and I wrote a book about the experience. It's in

1174
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 3: the book, but the probably the most difficult. I had

1175
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 3: a time period when it was probably between day fifty

1176
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 3: and sixty where I just got flat out depressed. And

1177
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 3: that's not like I don't normally. I'm not a I'm

1178
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 3: not prone to slipping into a depression or anything like that.

1179
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 3: So it was it was kind of odd for me.

1180
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 3: But you know, you got all of these things that

1181
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 3: are stacking up. You got you've been away from your family,

1182
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 3: not not only for those fifty days, but for the

1183
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 3: two week quarantine plus the ten or twelve day orientation. Yeah,

1184
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a long time to have no word

1185
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 3: at all from your family. So you got that, You've

1186
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 3: got weather that's turning crappy, you got fade like decreasing daylight.

1187
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 3: You got weather that's coming in. And the shelter that

1188
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 3: I made was it was a dark green tarp, and

1189
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 3: you have a snowstorm comes in and that keeps you

1190
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 3: in your shelter for two or three days. You're starving, literally,

1191
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 3: and so you got all these things coming together, and

1192
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 3: it just I mean, I just I got I got depressed,

1193
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 3: and I caught myself one day I was just complaining,

1194
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 3: and again they they they they, they drill into your

1195
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 3: head to film all the time, so the camerage is rolling.

1196
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 3: I'm sitting in my shelter one evening and just complaining

1197
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 3: about the everything just this sucks and the weather and

1198
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 3: blah blah blah whatever. And the next morning I was

1199
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 3: laying there in my in my bunk, and the thought

1200
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 3: occurred to me that my two boys are gonna watch

1201
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 3: this on TV, and they're gonna watch me complain about

1202
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 3: all these things that I have no control over. And

1203
01:07:56,680 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 3: that one thought switched my entire higher perspective on the

1204
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 3: whole thing. And I'm grateful that this was like day

1205
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 3: sixty or something. I'm grateful that I went through that

1206
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 3: period of depression because without that, without that mental anguish,

1207
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 3: I never would have gotten to that point where I

1208
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 3: was able to look at it from a completely different perspective.

1209
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 3: And from that moment on, I did not suffer anymore.

1210
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:31,719
Speaker 3: And it was only because nothing changed about my situation.

1211
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 3: I didn't have any more to eat, The weather was

1212
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 3: still crap, still living in a dark hole, but it

1213
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 3: was just the way that I was looking at it right.

1214
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 3: I was able to look at it through their eyes. Yeah,

1215
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 3: and that's something that has stuck with me. And that's

1216
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 3: one of those things that I wish that people just

1217
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 3: in general could get to they could experience something like that.

1218
01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 3: You know, just the way that we view our lives is,

1219
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's all just perspective. You know. We

1220
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 3: can choose to see it as everything's wrong, or we

1221
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 3: can choose to see it as you know, we're gonna

1222
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 3: make do and make we're gonna figure it out. Mm hmmm,

1223
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:18,759
Speaker 3: up until it's perful.

1224
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. Up until that point. How long had

1225
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 2: had you ever spent on your own or away from

1226
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 2: your family.

1227
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 3: It was pretty common for me to go out on

1228
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 3: hunts and be gone for you know, two weeks or

1229
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 3: I think the longest that I'd ever been gone from

1230
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 3: them was probably three weeks something like that.

1231
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's tough, man.

1232
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's funny that we're so frail when it

1233
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: comes to stuff like that. I mean, because you think

1234
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 1: about when it comes to actual survival, like caloric intake

1235
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 1: and keeping warm and having shelter over your head. It's like,

1236
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: separation from your family is not a factor that's going

1237
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:08,679
Speaker 1: to kill you, right, but it absolutely is a major factor.

1238
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,600
Speaker 2: I mean, we just we're just we're not designed to

1239
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 2: be isolated.

1240
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 1: We really are. I mean it's like it's like these

1241
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: mules out here. You pull one of those mules out

1242
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,759
Speaker 1: and put it in the trailer, and the other mules

1243
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: are just running up and down the fence wanting to go.

1244
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 1: You know. They call it buddy sour, and it's like

1245
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 1: they're just made to stand beside each other. I mean,

1246
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: they just they don't even is He doesn't even like

1247
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 1: those other mules. She kicks them, bites them every day,

1248
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 1: but she cannot stand to not be standing right beside them,

1249
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 1: just chemically, you know, biologically. But it's kind of the

1250
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: same way because i mean, shoot, man, I'm the small hunts.

1251
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 1: Compared to that that I've been on, I have had

1252
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 1: little micro moments in the back country where I just

1253
01:10:55,720 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: would be like flooded with a sense of this in

1254
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 1: my family that just almost overwhelming for real. It's like

1255
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 1: really private moments of that, even as a grown man,

1256
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: just you know, just like I used to. I used

1257
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,600
Speaker 1: to get real homesick, we called it when I was

1258
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 1: a little kid in grade school, like cry at school,

1259
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 1: just like just you know, just typical stuff. Right, I'm serious.

1260
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: I still have that sensation occasionally, and I kind of

1261
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: just have to calm myself down. I can't imagine being

1262
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: gone for how long?

1263
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 2: I have a question? How long were you out there?

1264
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,639
Speaker 3: So we from the time that they dropped me off

1265
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,799
Speaker 3: until they came and got me, it was seventy four days.

1266
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:48,640
Speaker 3: I was gone from home the seventy four plus the

1267
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:53,440
Speaker 3: two week orientation or the two week quarantine, ten day orientation,

1268
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,919
Speaker 3: plus I was there on the backside for another probably

1269
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 3: ten days. So how whatever that?

1270
01:11:58,960 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 1: Oh?

1271
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 2: Really twenty four months?

1272
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 1: When they came to get you, you still were ten

1273
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:05,679
Speaker 1: days from being home.

1274
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1275
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: Now it did your wife come and meet you? Was

1276
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 1: she able to do that?

1277
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 3: They would not let her come because they had the

1278
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 3: border shut down. She's the only one in all of

1279
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 3: the seasons that wasn't able to go out there. Oh

1280
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 3: wow because of COVID yep, wow, Yes, that's that sucked.

1281
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 3: But got to talk to her via sat phone when

1282
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 3: they came and told me I was the last one.

1283
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 2: So they come, they come and get you.

1284
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's.

1285
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: It's a crazy Have you ever watched the season I've watched.

1286
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 2: I've started several seasons and not gotten to the end.

1287
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,640
Speaker 1: And I'm not I don't watch a lot of television,

1288
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: but the way they do it is pretty cool because

1289
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: they go do this random health check and the audience

1290
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 1: doesn't know it either. Correct.

1291
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 3: I think the audience does know that they're so there

1292
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 3: there the audience is kind of in on it.

1293
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay. The scene is they just show up at

1294
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 1: Clay's camp to do a health check, just like they

1295
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 1: have every week probably for this whole time. And so

1296
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 1: they come up and they don't talk to them or

1297
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: you know, they don't chit chat with them. They're just like,

1298
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 1: step on the scale, how do you feel? What have

1299
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 1: you eaten? They do all this stuff, and you know,

1300
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: Clay's like one hundred and forty pounds and dirty and

1301
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 1: just like, you know, just kind of been out there

1302
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: for seventy four days. And then they're like, what did

1303
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 1: they say to you? Actually, because they said something like, well,

1304
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 1: you don't have to I think you said like I'm

1305
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 1: going to try to catch a rabbit tomorrow or.

1306
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they asked, uh that. So one of the things

1307
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 3: that they do when they come out and do their

1308
01:13:55,360 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 3: health check is the field producer, I'll do a short

1309
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 3: interview with you just to kind of so they have

1310
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,679
Speaker 3: an idea of what's been going on for the from

1311
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 3: that time to the previous when they came out there

1312
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 3: the previous time. It helps them to you know, find

1313
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 3: footage to make and do their ends and all that stuff.

1314
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 3: And so they asked like, so, how long do you

1315
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 3: think you can make it out here? And I was like, well,

1316
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 3: it depends on how many rabbit grouse I could catch,

1317
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 3: because I was catching rat I was catching rabbits pretty

1318
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 3: much every day, and I was shooting and snaring grouse.

1319
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 3: I actually left there with two grouse tied to my

1320
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 3: backpack if you look at it. If you look, if

1321
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 3: you watch that final scene where I'm walking to the helicopter,

1322
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 3: you can see them on my back.

1323
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 1: Oh you were you were living off the fat of

1324
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: the land.

1325
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 3: But uh, And I said, well, I don't. I mean,

1326
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 3: I've still I still had a bunch of deer meat

1327
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 3: and I had I was catching grouse and stuff like, well,

1328
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 3: I know I can make it to ninety days because

1329
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 3: I had my deer meat ration to ninety days, and

1330
01:14:58,800 --> 01:14:59,720
Speaker 3: I you know, I.

1331
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,440
Speaker 1: Could keeping track of days.

1332
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 3: I was not. I had no idea I did it

1333
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 3: didn't matter to me. It didn't matter to me how

1334
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 3: how many days I was going to be out there.

1335
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 2: So you didn't go out, Did you go out with

1336
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 2: a goal or like, I'm gonna for sure make it

1337
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 2: the X number of days.

1338
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, my goal is to be the last one. I

1339
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 3: like it. It didn't matter to me how many days

1340
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 3: it went. I was either gonna you know, I went

1341
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 3: in there with the with the I had made up

1342
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 3: my mind that I was not tapping out. They were

1343
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 3: gonna have to pull me out. I just got lucky

1344
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 3: and killed deer and didn't have to do that, or

1345
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 3: they didn't have to do that. But they said something

1346
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 3: along the lines, well it's, uh, well it turns out

1347
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 3: you're not gonna have to do that, because they said

1348
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 3: something along the lines of you're not you're you're you're

1349
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 3: the last one or something like that, and it didn't.

1350
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 3: If you watch the footage, you can see my face

1351
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 3: and I'm like, like, what are you even talking? Bow?

1352
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember that you were. It took you

1353
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,639
Speaker 1: a minute to understand what they were telling you. Yeah,

1354
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 1: because because they're they're communication was not telling you like

1355
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 1: you would typically if if you know so much of

1356
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 1: our communication is external, Like if if I was telling

1357
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 1: you you won, it'd be.

1358
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 3: Like you won.

1359
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: And they were like, well, you won't have to stay

1360
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 1: here anymore because you're the last one, and and he

1361
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 1: was like, well there's what.

1362
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 3: There's a good there's a very good reason for that

1363
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 3: confusion on my part. And it has to do with

1364
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 3: there's a season I think it was season six where

1365
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 3: a fella is convinced that he's the last one. He's

1366
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 3: got it in his mind like I am the last one.

1367
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,599
Speaker 3: They're on this med check, they're coming. My wife's gonna come.

1368
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 3: She's gonna sneak up behind me, and she's gonna tell

1369
01:16:57,160 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 3: me I'm the last one, and I'm I one. Well

1370
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:01,719
Speaker 3: come out and do the med check all that stuff.

1371
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,599
Speaker 3: And then they leave and he is not the last one,

1372
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 3: and it destroyed him. And so in my mind I

1373
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 3: had built like this mental block, like there was they

1374
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 3: were not coming to tell me anything. They were coming.

1375
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 2: It wasn't off schedule, no.

1376
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 3: Because they they weren't on a schedule. I mean they

1377
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 3: came out whenever they came out. I think the longest

1378
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 3: and I you know, I think the longest I ever

1379
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 3: went without seeing anybody is probably three weeks. And I

1380
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 3: might be.

1381
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: Off on that, but really so those three weeks.

1382
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they there was sometimes it was ten days, sometimes

1383
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 3: it was a week. Sometimes you know what it was.

1384
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 3: It was random. They would just call us. I didn't

1385
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 3: know when they were coming. They would just you know,

1386
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,640
Speaker 3: text me on the thing and say, hey, you know,

1387
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 3: tomorrow at eleven o'clock or whatever, we're gonna be, you

1388
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 3: need to be at your shelter. Yeah, And so in

1389
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 3: my mind and like there's no possibility that I'm leaving,

1390
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:08,800
Speaker 3: like I'm I'm here for the duration. And it was

1391
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 3: such a like a I don't know what that is

1392
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 3: that you can do to yourself and your mind to

1393
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 3: make you believe something like that, but I believed it.

1394
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 3: And so that's why that was. It was like I did,

1395
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 3: I didn't even under I couldn't comprehend what they're going

1396
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 3: to say.

1397
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: Venim of your state of mind was rolling so hard

1398
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 1: towards they're not coming. Tell me, I won I mean,

1399
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm staying here forever.

1400
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:33,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1401
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 1: When they said it, it's like it didn't it.

1402
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 3: Did not even make sense what they were saying. And

1403
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 3: he said and then the next thing he was saying

1404
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 3: is like I don't remember exactly what it was, but

1405
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 3: then it was like, oh, oh I am the laugh

1406
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:54,720
Speaker 3: holy yeah, And it was again one of those like

1407
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:57,640
Speaker 3: just a one of the most emotional things that I've

1408
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,120
Speaker 3: ever experienced in my life.

1409
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 2: How long had you been married at that point?

1410
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 3: M Liz, don't listen to this.

1411
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to do back math if you say, how

1412
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 1: long have.

1413
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 3: You seventeen fifteen years?

1414
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 2: Was your wife like all in from the very beginning?

1415
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:20,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, she well.

1416
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 1: She with the marriage. No, she was for the.

1417
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 2: First years with alone, with alone. Did she have any hesitation?

1418
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 3: You know, she didn't. If it had been up to her,

1419
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 3: she wouldn't have I wouldn't have gone, you know. The

1420
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 3: last thing she wanted me to go, to be gone

1421
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 3: for four months and starve to death and to starve

1422
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 3: and all that stuff. But she was never She knew

1423
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 3: that it was important to me, and it was actually

1424
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 3: I didn't realize how I didn't realize how important her

1425
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 3: h supporting me. I didn't realize how important that was

1426
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:04,480
Speaker 3: to her until I came out and there was a development.

1427
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,919
Speaker 3: While I was out there, I had no idea what

1428
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:12,720
Speaker 3: was going on. She when when you when you go

1429
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 3: out there, you have to sign a paper that says

1430
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 3: if there's an emergency at home, that they either come

1431
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 3: and tell you or they don't. If you can, you

1432
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 3: can say that if there, if someone contacts you and

1433
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 3: they're dying, I do not want to be informed. And

1434
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 3: so I of course put on there. Yeah, I mean

1435
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 3: if if, if, if my wife determines that it's an emergency,

1436
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,840
Speaker 3: I want to know about it, go and tell me. Yeah, Well,

1437
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,600
Speaker 3: she had gone, she had a doctor's appointment. This was

1438
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 3: the day that I launched Day one. She goes to

1439
01:20:55,000 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 3: the doctor and gets just like a routine scan, and

1440
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 3: they found a growth on one of her ovaries. And she

1441
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 3: used to she was she was a X ray attach

1442
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 3: at this hospital, and so she's knew everybody in the

1443
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 3: radiology department, and somehow she got her hands on the

1444
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 3: piece of paper from the person that read and interpreted

1445
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 3: this scan and it said this is likely ovarian cancer. Wow,

1446
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 3: I'm gonna start crying. So she's standing there with a

1447
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 3: basically a death sentence in her hand, and she does

1448
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 3: not call. She deals with this on her own.

1449
01:21:57,320 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 1: M hmm.

1450
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 3: Goes and and and it's seven days before she can

1451
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:03,840
Speaker 3: go back in. And she was never supposed to get

1452
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 3: that paper. You know, she was never supposed to see

1453
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 3: that paper without a doctor there to explain things to her.

1454
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 3: But she was able to get back in. They they

1455
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:21,919
Speaker 3: did a biopsy. They went in and removed that Ovary

1456
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:27,640
Speaker 3: had major surgery, abdominal surgery. Yeah. I never knew about it.

1457
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 3: She never told me, Wow, because she didn't want to

1458
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 3: take that opportunity away from me. You know, had it

1459
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 3: had it been cancer, I don't know what she would

1460
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 3: have done. I don't know if she would have told

1461
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:45,800
Speaker 3: me or not. I hope that she would have, but

1462
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, but she, you know, she thought

1463
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 3: it was and that she made the decision to deal

1464
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 3: with it on her own. Yeah was I mean I

1465
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 3: just that just I didn't know.

1466
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:03,640
Speaker 1: That's part of the story that you don't see on

1467
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 1: the Yeah, on the show.

1468
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't even know how to. I mean, she

1469
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:10,800
Speaker 3: told me that when I came a couple of days

1470
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 3: after I came out, and I was just like, you know, I.

1471
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 2: Can't imagine what it would have done to you had

1472
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 2: you been out there. Yeah, I mean, if you decided

1473
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 2: to stay, it would have been you would have just

1474
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 2: been a wreck. Yeah, I would have been yeah, and

1475
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 2: then or would you have just decided to go home?

1476
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 3: You know, had I had she called and told me

1477
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 3: that I would have gone home. Yeah, I mean, no

1478
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:39,080
Speaker 3: question about it, right, I wouldn't have hesitated. Yeah, but

1479
01:23:39,160 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 3: she I mean, she knew that it was important to me,

1480
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 3: but I didn't know, you know, I didn't know that

1481
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:51,560
Speaker 3: she put that much stock in it, you know, yeah, yeah,

1482
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 3: and she was that strong to handle that on her own.

1483
01:23:55,760 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question, and uh, honest answers

1484
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: would be acceptable.

1485
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:12,520
Speaker 3: Let's caveat not expected but acceptable.

1486
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 1: Well why did you do it? And let me give

1487
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 1: you a multiple choice, Like my question is is why

1488
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:25,560
Speaker 1: why did you outlast everybody?

1489
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 2: Why?

1490
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: Like the internal motivation, and an acceptable answer would be

1491
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 1: the money was a major factor, the what it would

1492
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 1: do for I mean, Clay makes outdoor media, like there

1493
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 1: would be no mistaking that him winning alone would be

1494
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 1: could be significant for just his career, which to me,

1495
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: career is connected to family and connected to taking care

1496
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: of your family. So it's not like career doesn't have

1497
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 1: to be just like personal ambition to be something great,

1498
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's it is connected to success that go

1499
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, rolls over to your family and and I

1500
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:09,680
Speaker 1: obviously don't think it's one of those. Or it could

1501
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:15,440
Speaker 1: also be like this, like personal challenge or or maybe

1502
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 1: just winning. I mean sometimes there's things that a person

1503
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 1: just feels like they need to win and like the

1504
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 1: money isn't that big a deal, like you know, like

1505
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 1: what if the pot had been like five hundred dollars,

1506
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: you know, would Clay Hayes still have gone out there

1507
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 1: and won? So the question is on the table many

1508
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:38,600
Speaker 1: ways to answer. Is that a fair Would you like

1509
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 1: to add to the question? Bear, I don't think so.

1510
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 1: I think you were that pretty good, okay, Josh.

1511
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 2: No lies and truth acceptable.

1512
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 3: So for I think everybody that goes out there has

1513
01:25:54,960 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 3: different reasons and different motivations. For for me, the money

1514
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 3: was not I never thought about the money when I

1515
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 3: was out there. Was not a motivation for me. And

1516
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,920
Speaker 3: if there had been no money, I still would have

1517
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 3: done what I did. I still would have pushed myself

1518
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 3: to that.

1519
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 1: I think that's all. I think he's being honest.

1520
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 3: Uh huh. Now, I like you were talking about with

1521
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:26,559
Speaker 3: the exposure and the and the media and the career

1522
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 3: and all that stuff, Like I knew that this was

1523
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 3: huge for me and what I do for a living, right,

1524
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 3: I didn't see. I never thought about that when I

1525
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 3: was out there. It's not why I stayed out there,

1526
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,639
Speaker 3: but I but before going out there, I had a plan.

1527
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:49,880
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I had a year from the time

1528
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 3: I came out or from the time I went out

1529
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 3: there till it was it went on History Channel. And

1530
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:58,360
Speaker 3: during that year, man, I did a lot of stuff.

1531
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 3: You had to keep it secret for a full year.

1532
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, kylie, wow.

1533
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1534
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 1: I actually talked to Clay during that year, Okay, and

1535
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,560
Speaker 1: I knew he was on it, and I knew that

1536
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 1: he couldn't tell how it had gone down, and he

1537
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 1: was like total poker face, even though I'll I had

1538
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: a sneaking suspicion that you want not because of anything

1539
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,719
Speaker 1: you did, but just because I was like, Clay Hayes

1540
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:29,040
Speaker 1: would win. Yeah, I'm being honest. I think I went

1541
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:32,200
Speaker 1: home and told people. I was like, I probably my

1542
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 1: I don't know who I told, but like I didn't

1543
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,760
Speaker 1: like put it on the Instagram or something, but I

1544
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:38,320
Speaker 1: was like, I bet he won.

1545
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 3: But as far as like the real reason, the reason

1546
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:48,519
Speaker 3: that I one of the big, one of the big

1547
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 3: reasons I went out there is is because it was

1548
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 3: a test of myself and what I It was one

1549
01:27:56,520 --> 01:28:00,679
Speaker 3: of those things that I always just am I good enough?

1550
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 3: Am I good enough to do this? And it's like

1551
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 3: the ultimate test for that because it is it is real. Yeah,

1552
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 3: like there's no like I was talking, this is what

1553
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 3: you do. It is, but it's it's like the ultimate

1554
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 3: challenge of being a human, you know, of what a

1555
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:26,800
Speaker 3: human is. And so that was the big reason like

1556
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 3: that I that I wanted to do it in the

1557
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 3: first place. I always wanted to do something like that,

1558
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:35,520
Speaker 3: and it just turned out that alone was the opportunity

1559
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:43,599
Speaker 3: to do it. The reason that I stayed was because

1560
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:47,600
Speaker 3: I had made a promise to my family that like

1561
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:51,720
Speaker 3: my boys when I when I when I left, you know,

1562
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 3: I I was like, I need I need your help.

1563
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:57,840
Speaker 3: I need you to help your mom while I'm gone.

1564
01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 3: I need y'all to try to behave even like, don't

1565
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 3: make it harder on And you know they did, They

1566
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:08,559
Speaker 3: did amazing And I wasn't you know, I wasn't gonna

1567
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:14,240
Speaker 3: I wasn't gonna quit because I was uncomfortable, or because

1568
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:17,640
Speaker 3: I was hungry, or because of any you know, I

1569
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:22,439
Speaker 3: can't think of anything short of a you know, like

1570
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 3: a broken leg with a bone sticking out of my leg,

1571
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 3: that would have made me hit that button. I was

1572
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:30,400
Speaker 3: just not it was not an option for me. I

1573
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 3: never thought about the button. It was not on my

1574
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 3: mind because for me, it wasn't an option like that

1575
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:40,920
Speaker 3: bud didn't exists.

1576
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: That's a good answer. That's a good answer and maybe

1577
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 1: not surprising, but it feels like it would be hard

1578
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 1: not to be motivated by the money. I mean, even

1579
01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 1: even with somebody. If somebody wasn't, I think a lot

1580
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 1: of people are.

1581
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:07,479
Speaker 3: But for me, it wasn't. Uh, it wasn't a big deal.

1582
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 3: Not because I mean the money has helped us pay

1583
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 3: off our house, you know, it's it's we've started a

1584
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 3: couple of college funds for the kids. You know, we've invested.

1585
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:23,200
Speaker 3: I mean, it helped us be more secure. Yeah, but

1586
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 3: had there been no money, I still would have done

1587
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 3: it because of the personal challenge and the benefits that

1588
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 3: came out of the thing. I mean, I came out

1589
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:34,760
Speaker 3: of that. I was I'm a different person than I

1590
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 3: was before I went out there, and that to me,

1591
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 3: is more valuable than any prize money. I mean, I'm uh,

1592
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 3: you know, we go through our lives and we take

1593
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:52,799
Speaker 3: it we we we take for granted so many things,

1594
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:57,800
Speaker 3: and oftentimes those things that we take for granted, or

1595
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 3: our family because you know, especially I think about my

1596
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:03,080
Speaker 3: wife's like we've been together since we were seventeen years old,

1597
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 3: and so we've just always she's always been there, you know,

1598
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:10,680
Speaker 3: and when someone is or someone or something is a

1599
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:13,680
Speaker 3: constant in your life, it's just like, you know, you

1600
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 3: kind of lose that perspective and being out there and

1601
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:22,719
Speaker 3: having all of that stuff stripped away from you gives

1602
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,600
Speaker 3: you an opportunity to look back on your life like

1603
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 3: that's a that's a thing that people don't get today

1604
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:34,600
Speaker 3: really as an opportunity that we're so busy, we're distracted

1605
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 3: every single day where where, you know, trying to make

1606
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 3: a living with social media or whatever, the little computers

1607
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 3: in our pockets, Like we never have a chance to

1608
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 3: step away from our lives and and look at our

1609
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:51,240
Speaker 3: life and like, well, why do I do things the

1610
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:53,280
Speaker 3: way I do them? You know? Why do I go

1611
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:55,920
Speaker 3: to this job every day? Why do I you know,

1612
01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 3: why do I do anything? And that gave me the

1613
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 3: opportunity to do that because I was pulled out of

1614
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 3: my like my normal life, and that's a that's a

1615
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 3: tremendously valuable thing there was to me anyway.

1616
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:13,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's such a rare It really is rare.

1617
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:20,680
Speaker 1: I mean, like the opportunity and I you know, I

1618
01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:23,599
Speaker 1: mean any one of us could make decisions that would

1619
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:27,320
Speaker 1: lead us to go on a trip of isolation in

1620
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 1: the wilderness. I mean, there's nothing stopping you, Josh from

1621
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:34,720
Speaker 1: doing that. But there there's a thousand things that are

1622
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 1: really so I mean, like the opportunity to get to

1623
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, I guess that that really is so

1624
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 1: rare because yeah, you just wouldn't do it on your own.

1625
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 1: It's it's like there had there would have to be

1626
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:56,480
Speaker 1: a reason, a justification, you know, the show, the prize package,

1627
01:32:56,640 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 1: the you know, there's all these things that like make

1628
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:03,760
Speaker 1: it this like kind of once in a lifetime opportunity.

1629
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:05,600
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean do you want to go

1630
01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 1: do it again? I mean, maybe not be on the

1631
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 1: show alone, but do you is there something in you

1632
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:13,080
Speaker 1: that's like craving to go out there or did it

1633
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:17,519
Speaker 1: extinguish all that desire because you know you can do it,

1634
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 1: you did it.

1635
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 3: I don't have any desire to go out and starve

1636
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:27,519
Speaker 3: again and go through all of that. But when I

1637
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:31,120
Speaker 3: when I, when I in the days following me coming

1638
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:34,559
Speaker 3: out of there, I thought to myself, I will never

1639
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 3: ever do that again. It was just it was you know,

1640
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 3: it was a lot to endure, you know, but time

1641
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 3: has a way of kind of you remember the the

1642
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 3: good that came out of it, and you kind of

1643
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:54,719
Speaker 3: forget some of the anguish and the suffering.

1644
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:56,960
Speaker 2: It was like type two point eight fun.

1645
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:02,640
Speaker 1: I think that's it was five fun ti you know.

1646
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:04,120
Speaker 3: People asked me that was it fun.

1647
01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 1: I was like, no, it was not.

1648
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:08,200
Speaker 3: It wasn't fun. I mean, it definitely had its moments,

1649
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 3: like I have. I had life changing experiences out there

1650
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 3: and and and experiences that I never would have had before.

1651
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 3: I'm grateful for it was it was not fun, but

1652
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 3: I'm grateful that I did it and went through it.

1653
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:29,240
Speaker 3: You know. But if they if they offered me a

1654
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:33,600
Speaker 3: chance to do it again, I would consider it. I

1655
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 3: don't know that I would, but I mean I would

1656
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 3: probably knowing myself, I probably would not be able to

1657
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:41,720
Speaker 3: turn it down because it's a huge adventure.

1658
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:50,599
Speaker 1: Well, isn't it. What's the catnus? What what movie?

1659
01:34:50,600 --> 01:34:52,679
Speaker 2: Am I talking about Hunger Games.

1660
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 1: Didn't In the Hunger Games they bring all the champions

1661
01:34:57,439 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 1: all stars.

1662
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 3: Yeah that I don't think that's ever gonna happen.

1663
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:08,519
Speaker 1: I mean that, I mean, surely the alone people have

1664
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 1: thought of that bring all the champions together and have

1665
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:13,160
Speaker 1: like a huge prize.

1666
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 3: Fool they've thought about it. I don't know that they've

1667
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 3: got the budget for it, and I don't know that

1668
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 3: that people would even do it again. Yeah, yeah, because

1669
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 3: you know, you got You've got guys now that are

1670
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:31,840
Speaker 3: doing really well, like on YouTube.

1671
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:35,920
Speaker 1: And as every do. Most people that win alone go

1672
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 1: on to have a career that's attached to that winning.

1673
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:46,400
Speaker 3: No, not, I mean some do. Certainly, I was doing

1674
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 3: YouTube stuff before I ever got on a long I

1675
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:53,479
Speaker 3: think I started doing YouTube stuff full time in twenty seventeen.

1676
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 3: It wasn't on the show until twenty twenty. It picked

1677
01:35:57,400 --> 01:35:59,800
Speaker 3: up a lot after after it went on Netflix. But

1678
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 3: like Jordan is the only one out of the other winners,

1679
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,639
Speaker 3: he's the only one that I really have spent time

1680
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,719
Speaker 3: with and know, and he he does some YouTube stuff,

1681
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 3: but it's not I don't think anyway. I don't think

1682
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:15,680
Speaker 3: it's a major part of what he does. He's he

1683
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:20,120
Speaker 3: runs an outfitting business now out of he outfits into

1684
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 3: Idaho from the Montana side, I think. But he does

1685
01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:29,880
Speaker 3: survival classes. Like he'll bring people in and pack them

1686
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:33,920
Speaker 3: into the wilderness and spend you know, five or seven

1687
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 3: days or whatever back in there teaching him how to

1688
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:40,120
Speaker 3: make friction fires and shoot bows and arrows and pitch

1689
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:43,960
Speaker 3: tents and do all that type of stuff. I think

1690
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 3: that's his big that's his big deal.

1691
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:46,840
Speaker 2: Now.

1692
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, cool, it's it's a great story.

1693
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:00,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. And what what's cool?

1694
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:05,760
Speaker 1: And I would have been a skeptic of well, I

1695
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 1: had never seen I had never watched Alone when I

1696
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:11,600
Speaker 1: learned that Clay was going to be on it in

1697
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:17,840
Speaker 1: that lag year, and uh. And in that first conversation,

1698
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:21,639
Speaker 1: I feel like I asked you, is it is it real?

1699
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:22,760
Speaker 3: Like is it is it?

1700
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:25,640
Speaker 1: Just because I didn't have a frame of reference for it,

1701
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:27,920
Speaker 1: and you were like, oh, it's very real, and I

1702
01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:30,400
Speaker 1: was like, oh cool. And then you know, started watching

1703
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:33,719
Speaker 1: it and maybe even watched another season before or something.

1704
01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 1: But that's the coolest part of Alone, that makes it

1705
01:37:38,120 --> 01:37:41,600
Speaker 1: different than Yeah, at least anything I've seen, is that

1706
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:49,040
Speaker 1: it's like it's like people are. It's it's legit. So wow, man,

1707
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:51,639
Speaker 1: that's awesome. We we didn't even get to talk about

1708
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:55,960
Speaker 1: Clovis and fulsome today and we don't have time to.

1709
01:37:56,920 --> 01:38:00,400
Speaker 1: We could talk about it remain it remains in no

1710
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 1: I mean we could talk about it for like five

1711
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:02,680
Speaker 1: minutes here.

1712
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:03,960
Speaker 3: No.

1713
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 1: Typically on the render we talk about the bear grease

1714
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:10,160
Speaker 1: that just came out, and uh, it really would have

1715
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:12,879
Speaker 1: been fitting to have Clay here to talk about Clovis.

1716
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:14,840
Speaker 1: We can, I mean, we can talk about it a

1717
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:19,200
Speaker 1: little bit, but I love these episodes about early human

1718
01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:23,760
Speaker 1: history and archaeology. Metting Aaron and doctor David Meltzer are

1719
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:28,599
Speaker 1: like heroes. They're great. Taylor Keene was great, I mean,

1720
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:32,720
Speaker 1: like an all star lineup on the podcast. And uh,

1721
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:37,120
Speaker 1: this is a Clovis point that Meting Aaron made for me.

1722
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: He he is a just like a very very very

1723
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:50,720
Speaker 1: good maker of fulsome points. Excuse me, Clovise points close points. Yeah,

1724
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 1: so this would this classify as a as a Clovis.

1725
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:58,640
Speaker 1: That's a Clovis, Yeah, and it's it's just it's just

1726
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:01,040
Speaker 1: the hafting, you know, like.

1727
01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 3: The clothes us has the flutes that go all the

1728
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:09,240
Speaker 3: way down folsom, the false fulsome, that's a fulsome that's okay.

1729
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:13,719
Speaker 1: So so this this is a cast of a real

1730
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 1: fulsome point right which the fulsom has a full slabe

1731
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:23,160
Speaker 1: off of it. And that's like the radical newer version

1732
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 1: of a Clovis. Yeah, so that's a cast of one's

1733
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:29,680
Speaker 1: that's a cast of a real Clovis. Look how thin

1734
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:32,519
Speaker 1: it is. I know it's a real folesome. Excuse me.

1735
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:35,680
Speaker 1: And now this is a fulsome that was made for

1736
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:41,360
Speaker 1: me by Tony Sores. So I mean that's a real one.

1737
01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:45,400
Speaker 3: That is just think that is a master yeah at

1738
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 3: work right there.

1739
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I wonder how many they total before they

1740
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 2: got that well, I mean the fulsome points.

1741
01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:55,920
Speaker 1: They say they had a forty to like fifty percent

1742
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:57,679
Speaker 1: failure rate, and that's.

1743
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:00,280
Speaker 3: Probably someone that really knew what they were doing. Yeah,

1744
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:05,599
Speaker 3: I mean, get you get a sorry, go ahead, I'm

1745
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 3: just gonna comment that to get to this point of

1746
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:11,560
Speaker 3: being able to make something like this like this is

1747
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 3: years and years of busting rock. So how many crappy

1748
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:21,559
Speaker 3: points did this guy make before he made he started

1749
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:22,320
Speaker 3: making this stuff?

1750
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they must have felt like that, like that

1751
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:29,240
Speaker 2: it was worth it, you know, what I mean, like,

1752
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:33,599
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean more effective or was it like, hey,

1753
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:36,080
Speaker 2: this is my maker stamp that I can do this?

1754
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:39,600
Speaker 3: You know? But I look at something this like this,

1755
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:42,720
Speaker 3: and I see artwork like we like to we like

1756
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 3: a beautiful hunting knife. Does that make it cut any

1757
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:47,519
Speaker 3: better than a than a one that's not beautiful?

1758
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 1: But that's so hard to especially the fault now we're

1759
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: talking about folsom but it's like so hard to make though.

1760
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 1: It just seems like it's if you were out on

1761
01:40:56,320 --> 01:41:00,639
Speaker 1: a loan, you wouldn't be showing out. Maybe you would

1762
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:02,640
Speaker 1: because you didn't you didn't have anything else to do.

1763
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you see what I'm saying, Like that you

1764
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:08,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't be like trying to do something extra special just

1765
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:09,840
Speaker 1: for the sake of it.

1766
01:41:11,160 --> 01:41:14,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, It's like I think of cave

1767
01:41:14,439 --> 01:41:17,160
Speaker 3: paintings when I look at this, It's like, what's what's

1768
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:23,600
Speaker 3: the function other than artistic expression? You know. It's like

1769
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:27,559
Speaker 3: the guy that makes this takes pride in what he's

1770
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:31,320
Speaker 3: able to create, you know, And it's a beautiful thing,

1771
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 3: and I think that has value.

1772
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:38,080
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it if we could just set with the maker

1773
01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:41,240
Speaker 1: of that. I think we would be as we would

1774
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 1: be astonished no matter what. It's possible that we could

1775
01:41:44,960 --> 01:41:48,640
Speaker 1: be astonished at the flippancy with which he would hold this,

1776
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:54,040
Speaker 1: Like he might just be like yeah, like like us

1777
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:57,240
Speaker 1: holding like a fork, Yeah, like that we pulled out

1778
01:41:57,240 --> 01:42:00,400
Speaker 1: of the drawer, you know what I mean, like, or

1779
01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:06,120
Speaker 1: we might be astonished that when he held that, he said, Son,

1780
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:11,640
Speaker 1: this isle our future. This is the pinnacle of human existence,

1781
01:42:12,320 --> 01:42:15,439
Speaker 1: to make that point, And I mean he might have

1782
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:16,559
Speaker 1: had philosophy, you know.

1783
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 3: I think it's probably more on that spectrum. I mean,

1784
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 3: it's that's.

1785
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 1: Complete speculation though, you know, I mean, we just don't know,

1786
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's fascinating, Josh, what stood out to you?

1787
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:35,920
Speaker 1: You weren't involved as much in the actual content of

1788
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:38,840
Speaker 1: this one like melt Oh you.

1789
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,280
Speaker 2: Were with those with David Meltzer. But man met in

1790
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 2: there and that guy is sharp. Yeah. I really enjoyed

1791
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 2: listen to that. I think I think just it up

1792
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 2: until this, it hadn't been something that I'd spent a

1793
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:57,280
Speaker 2: lot of time thinking about, and so to put it

1794
01:42:57,400 --> 01:43:01,080
Speaker 2: out there of you know, when when David Meltzer talked

1795
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:03,800
Speaker 2: about the Ice Free Corridor, it was fascinating to me

1796
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:09,920
Speaker 2: the advancements using DNA technology that way and finding that

1797
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 2: there was no organic matter, so the ice free corridor

1798
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:17,360
Speaker 2: would not have been a route that early humans would

1799
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:20,000
Speaker 2: have traveled. And I can't tell you how many times

1800
01:43:20,040 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 2: in the last week I've said the Laurentide ice shelf

1801
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:28,599
Speaker 2: in the cordillaria. You know, I've sounded like I really

1802
01:43:28,680 --> 01:43:31,559
Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about. But just just to think

1803
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:36,080
Speaker 2: about early man coming across and going down, how they

1804
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 2: would have lived, what would have been their motivation, what

1805
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 2: would have been their deciding factors on doing things, is

1806
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 2: just it was new and kind of exciting to think about,

1807
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:51,920
Speaker 2: you know, and the technology of the time and how

1808
01:43:52,040 --> 01:43:56,519
Speaker 2: long that technology was effective to keep survival of humans.

1809
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:58,439
Speaker 2: You know, it is pretty amazing stuff.

1810
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 1: I will never get tied ever when I see fulsome

1811
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:10,640
Speaker 1: points in close points of saying that those people the

1812
01:44:10,920 --> 01:44:16,040
Speaker 1: only thing, the only print that is left on the

1813
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:19,920
Speaker 1: face of this earth that represents those people is these

1814
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:23,840
Speaker 1: stone points. I mean, because everything else they interacted with

1815
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:29,439
Speaker 1: was organic matter. Their bones, their flesh, the adlettle spears,

1816
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:34,240
Speaker 1: their clothing, their food. They're like, they didn't have plastic

1817
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:39,800
Speaker 1: or metal or they didn't have anything. The only thing

1818
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:43,519
Speaker 1: that survived is that and that's not entirely true, because

1819
01:44:43,680 --> 01:44:46,200
Speaker 1: we do have in North America. And this will get

1820
01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:50,360
Speaker 1: into this more in a later episode, but they have

1821
01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:54,800
Speaker 1: found a couple of human remains that they believe are

1822
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:57,800
Speaker 1: from the Plaistocene, and one of them is that Anzac child,

1823
01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:01,240
Speaker 1: which we just briefly talk about, the Anzik child found

1824
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:05,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight, which was a toddler that was

1825
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:07,439
Speaker 1: found while some dude was like digging a footing for

1826
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:11,160
Speaker 1: his barn or something in Montana and like digs up

1827
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:14,400
Speaker 1: this human skull and they're like, holy smokes. And then

1828
01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 1: they they they realize it's old, and an archaeologist or

1829
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:24,120
Speaker 1: somebody comes and takes it, and then it's not until

1830
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:28,720
Speaker 1: they can do DNA testing on it. Even in like

1831
01:45:28,840 --> 01:45:33,040
Speaker 1: the last fifteen years that they DNA tests the bone

1832
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:36,519
Speaker 1: and it's still in good enough shape that they're able

1833
01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:40,880
Speaker 1: to determine what the mother ate. The mother of that child.

1834
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:45,760
Speaker 1: There's a whole academic paper the mother of the Anzik Child. Now,

1835
01:45:45,880 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 1: Meltzer tells me that the sciences slightly is questionable, but

1836
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:54,479
Speaker 1: I mean it's like on like a major academic journal. Well,

1837
01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:57,960
Speaker 1: it's the one that it's so complicated. I hope y'all

1838
01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:01,280
Speaker 1: all were paying attention. It's the one that Met and

1839
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:04,200
Speaker 1: Aaron talked about how they used it as a political

1840
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 1: tool to talk about climate change and to say that

1841
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:11,559
Speaker 1: the humans were the ones that killed the mammoths out

1842
01:46:12,040 --> 01:46:15,559
Speaker 1: because they analyzed this child and were able to tell

1843
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:21,559
Speaker 1: that the mother had a diet heavy heavy in animal

1844
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:28,719
Speaker 1: matter that essentially was equivalent to a scimitar cat period.

1845
01:46:29,320 --> 01:46:31,160
Speaker 3: They weren't eating any potatoes.

1846
01:46:31,320 --> 01:46:34,200
Speaker 2: Exactly, and so.

1847
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 1: Or coked zeros. So but I bet those suckers could

1848
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:49,479
Speaker 1: water witch. No, I'll never get tired of just like

1849
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:53,120
Speaker 1: when I look at that, what I see is mystery,

1850
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:57,920
Speaker 1: and in a time period of human existence, when it's

1851
01:46:57,960 --> 01:47:00,800
Speaker 1: like the mystery has been taken from us, you know,

1852
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:03,080
Speaker 1: because of all that we know and all we have

1853
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:05,600
Speaker 1: access to and the little computers in our pockets, and

1854
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:09,120
Speaker 1: it's like we live in such a rare time. I mean,

1855
01:47:09,240 --> 01:47:12,439
Speaker 1: like these people would be looking at us, be going,

1856
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:16,559
Speaker 1: holy cow, what you know. We take it for granted

1857
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:22,160
Speaker 1: where we live as just an anomaly in human existence.

1858
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:26,479
Speaker 1: We have no idea what the results of this kind

1859
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:29,000
Speaker 1: of life are really and I mean it kind of

1860
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 1: even ties back into you with your alone stuff, Like

1861
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:37,640
Speaker 1: having this kind of artificial simulated like existence in the

1862
01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:41,000
Speaker 1: wild for this period of time, that's like life changing

1863
01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:42,920
Speaker 1: to you. You come back into the real world and

1864
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I've seen the light. Like everybody needs

1865
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:51,080
Speaker 1: to do this. I wish everybody could experience what I've experienced.

1866
01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:53,400
Speaker 1: I mean it all kind of it all kind of

1867
01:47:53,439 --> 01:47:58,160
Speaker 1: connects in a way, but fascinating. What stood out to you?

1868
01:47:58,400 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 1: You listened to the podcast, didn't you?

1869
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:01,479
Speaker 3: I did?

1870
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:06,519
Speaker 1: Would you have known about quite a bit of that stuff?

1871
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 3: I mean, not not the depth that you guys got

1872
01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:16,240
Speaker 3: into it, but I mean the thing that I kept

1873
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:19,800
Speaker 3: thinking was what I was just talking about, Like there,

1874
01:48:20,240 --> 01:48:24,520
Speaker 3: I think there's reason for making those points beyond just functionality.

1875
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:27,479
Speaker 3: I think there's an aesthetic and a and a and

1876
01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:32,439
Speaker 3: a craftsmanship angle there. I think it was a pinnacle

1877
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:36,400
Speaker 3: of that cultures. I think the people that were that

1878
01:48:36,479 --> 01:48:39,840
Speaker 3: were making those were could have been highly revered. You know,

1879
01:48:39,920 --> 01:48:44,640
Speaker 3: if you're able to produce a point like that, it

1880
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:49,559
Speaker 3: would be like a like a you know, a fine

1881
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:52,760
Speaker 3: rifle maker or something like somebody that's making something that's

1882
01:48:52,840 --> 01:48:54,200
Speaker 3: functional that's in.

1883
01:48:54,240 --> 01:48:57,479
Speaker 1: A pinnacle of their existence of their society. Yes, this

1884
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:00,120
Speaker 1: wasn't a hobby that they were hunting. This was the

1885
01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:01,600
Speaker 1: life way, absolutely.

1886
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:07,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. And so that that, you know, I feel like

1887
01:49:07,439 --> 01:49:09,519
Speaker 3: there's a there was a there was a pride there

1888
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:15,479
Speaker 3: in someone's craftsmanship and an artistic side of it. And

1889
01:49:16,240 --> 01:49:23,000
Speaker 3: you know that when they could have you know, there

1890
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:25,880
Speaker 3: could have been people that that's what they did. That's

1891
01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:28,320
Speaker 3: all they did was make that. They they they were

1892
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:31,479
Speaker 3: the artisans and that's what they did. They made points.

1893
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:35,000
Speaker 3: They were good at it, and so people would come

1894
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,400
Speaker 3: and trade. They didn't have to go hunting. I mean

1895
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:39,400
Speaker 3: they had. They were taken care of because they were

1896
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:43,200
Speaker 3: good at making that type of stuff. Yeah, I don't

1897
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 3: think that. I don't think your average guy really back

1898
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:48,880
Speaker 3: in the day was able to create that, even though.

1899
01:49:48,760 --> 01:49:50,720
Speaker 1: They would have been setting around and that would have

1900
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:54,120
Speaker 1: been like a a it would have been equivalent to

1901
01:49:54,320 --> 01:49:57,360
Speaker 1: like being able to hook into the internet.

1902
01:49:58,240 --> 01:50:01,080
Speaker 3: No, but it wasn't. It wasn't because look at look

1903
01:50:01,120 --> 01:50:05,360
Speaker 3: at look at people today. Look at guys today. How

1904
01:50:05,439 --> 01:50:10,280
Speaker 3: many guys out of one hundred guys, how many guys

1905
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:14,360
Speaker 3: could go out there and cut down a tree and

1906
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:14,880
Speaker 3: make a bench.

1907
01:50:15,680 --> 01:50:19,559
Speaker 4: But right, well, I see what you're saying, but they

1908
01:50:19,600 --> 01:50:23,080
Speaker 4: have they don't have to. They couldn't do it if

1909
01:50:23,080 --> 01:50:27,360
Speaker 4: they had to. Even they don't have the they don't have.

1910
01:50:27,600 --> 01:50:30,400
Speaker 2: It's not critical to their survival, is what you're saying.

1911
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:32,640
Speaker 1: No, you're saying they don't even have that, don't have

1912
01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:33,440
Speaker 1: the aptitude.

1913
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:35,479
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, gotcha.

1914
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:38,559
Speaker 1: I mean I see what you saying there. There would

1915
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 1: be a gradient of just raw natural ability to do

1916
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:47,800
Speaker 1: something like that physical and that tactical tactile.

1917
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:52,479
Speaker 3: Some people, some guys just don't have the mechanical ability

1918
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:56,720
Speaker 3: to to build things or to make things, and some

1919
01:50:56,840 --> 01:51:00,479
Speaker 3: people do. That's an artist. The guys that made that point,

1920
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:04,080
Speaker 3: he is an artist, and that that's only a certain

1921
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:04,479
Speaker 3: number of the.

1922
01:51:04,439 --> 01:51:07,439
Speaker 1: Po It's interesting here, And you said that because yesterday

1923
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:10,280
Speaker 1: we had a brief conversation. I told Clay, like we're

1924
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:12,879
Speaker 1: totally breaking the rules by talking about this before the podcast.

1925
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:16,200
Speaker 1: But Clay makes bows, and he has a style of

1926
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:19,640
Speaker 1: self bow that like he would recognize just out of

1927
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:23,160
Speaker 1: a lineup, like that's a bowt And and you're saying that,

1928
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:26,800
Speaker 1: like when you see a folsom point, you see craftsmanship,

1929
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:30,440
Speaker 1: specific craftsmanship and pride.

1930
01:51:30,880 --> 01:51:36,560
Speaker 3: And that originated probably in with just one guy that

1931
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:39,160
Speaker 3: started doing it, and then they started catching on and

1932
01:51:39,200 --> 01:51:41,799
Speaker 3: he was teaching people and it just kind of dispersed

1933
01:51:41,800 --> 01:51:42,160
Speaker 3: from there.

1934
01:51:43,120 --> 01:51:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I could see that, Like it's

1935
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:48,599
Speaker 1: easy to kind of just like look at the stone

1936
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:52,840
Speaker 1: points and it's kind of like generalize like all these

1937
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:55,519
Speaker 1: ancient people just by like you know, they all can

1938
01:51:55,640 --> 01:51:58,720
Speaker 1: make stone points of that quality just because that's all

1939
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:03,320
Speaker 1: we see. But that's kind of just like a generalization. Yeah,

1940
01:52:03,439 --> 01:52:05,320
Speaker 1: like there would be some people who would be like

1941
01:52:05,439 --> 01:52:09,120
Speaker 1: a lot more skilled at it because like you know,

1942
01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:11,000
Speaker 1: you look at those points up there and some of

1943
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:14,400
Speaker 1: those are like janky. You could make points better than

1944
01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:17,760
Speaker 1: some of those, Yeah, and makes you wonder was it

1945
01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:21,240
Speaker 1: was it a kid? Was it right? Or some like

1946
01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:23,640
Speaker 1: you fit to that point when they made that, they

1947
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:25,959
Speaker 1: were just like dude, you need to haul firewood.

1948
01:52:26,120 --> 01:52:26,400
Speaker 3: Okay.

1949
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:31,040
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me to think about a stone point

1950
01:52:31,120 --> 01:52:35,759
Speaker 2: like that that's really beautiful and then you see stone

1951
01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:40,600
Speaker 2: points from an era of a thousand years ago and

1952
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:43,439
Speaker 2: how the technology changed. But I don't know that it

1953
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:46,320
Speaker 2: was more effective, like what caused it? What costs that

1954
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:47,240
Speaker 2: to die out?

1955
01:52:48,920 --> 01:52:52,680
Speaker 1: That's great, A great question, because it did like they

1956
01:52:52,760 --> 01:52:57,160
Speaker 1: got fluting points all together after basically and.

1957
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:00,439
Speaker 2: More effective than that's on point.

1958
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:06,040
Speaker 3: I think that any and I'm not I'm not a historian.

1959
01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:09,759
Speaker 3: I could be way off base here, but it seems

1960
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:13,879
Speaker 3: to me that you see art emerge in a culture

1961
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:16,679
Speaker 3: when you have a state, you have a certain amount

1962
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:20,200
Speaker 3: of stability, right, And so that makes me think that

1963
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:22,960
Speaker 3: that's a that's a high level. That's like the highest

1964
01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:26,320
Speaker 3: level of stone point that we've ever seen in this

1965
01:53:26,479 --> 01:53:29,360
Speaker 3: country and maybe in the world. I don't know, but

1966
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:34,519
Speaker 3: I think that that has to emerge out of a

1967
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:40,600
Speaker 3: fairly stable, a stable culture. A culture. Yeah, uh, you

1968
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:43,320
Speaker 3: have to you know, you can't be you can't be

1969
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:46,559
Speaker 3: worried about whether or not you're going to be alive

1970
01:53:46,680 --> 01:53:49,240
Speaker 3: tomorrow or be able to find enough food tomorrow to

1971
01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 3: support your family and put enough time into developing the

1972
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:54,560
Speaker 3: skill to make that.

1973
01:53:55,320 --> 01:53:55,439
Speaker 1: Right.

1974
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:57,640
Speaker 3: You have to have the time to deve up to

1975
01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 3: do that. And that's that's not somebody that's living day

1976
01:54:00,240 --> 01:54:02,080
Speaker 3: to day or day by day.

1977
01:54:02,439 --> 01:54:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a good point. It really is.

1978
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 2: Interesting, fascinating.

1979
01:54:09,920 --> 01:54:13,560
Speaker 1: It's this is also I think when you see the

1980
01:54:14,360 --> 01:54:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, there there's charts met and Aaron had some

1981
01:54:16,720 --> 01:54:21,200
Speaker 1: of these charts that like showed the the technology shifts

1982
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:23,759
Speaker 1: from year to year. And I mean like, so where's

1983
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:27,479
Speaker 1: that Clovis point? I mean essentially this Clovis point, this

1984
01:54:27,600 --> 01:54:31,280
Speaker 1: is a would be older than a fulsome point. But

1985
01:54:31,880 --> 01:54:34,600
Speaker 1: what makes it Clovis to Clovis is that the half

1986
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:38,440
Speaker 1: there's a small flute like right there you can just

1987
01:54:38,520 --> 01:54:41,720
Speaker 1: barely feel it, yep. And they make that by making

1988
01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:45,520
Speaker 1: a little a little a little shelf like there'll be

1989
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 1: a little nipple right there that they that they chip out,

1990
01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 1: make a little and then they hit that little that

1991
01:54:53,760 --> 01:55:00,400
Speaker 1: little platform and it flakes off. Well, this turn into

1992
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:04,200
Speaker 1: this so it's like a kid his dad taught him

1993
01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:07,040
Speaker 1: how to do this, and he was like, he may

1994
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:09,200
Speaker 1: have done it by accident the first time, but he

1995
01:55:09,400 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 1: was like, man, if you build that platform just a

1996
01:55:12,200 --> 01:55:15,000
Speaker 1: little bit bigger and hit it just a little bit harder,

1997
01:55:15,320 --> 01:55:18,920
Speaker 1: it'll flake the whole side off, and it flakes off,

1998
01:55:19,400 --> 01:55:21,800
Speaker 1: and then they start making these for a thousand years.

1999
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:24,920
Speaker 1: A dad taught his son. Yeah, it literally has to

2000
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:28,360
Speaker 1: be the product of like knowledge pass from generation generation.

2001
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:31,720
Speaker 1: You don't you don't come up with that that's not

2002
01:55:31,960 --> 01:55:37,200
Speaker 1: like there's a thing called convergent evolution, Like in two places,

2003
01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:40,400
Speaker 1: the same thing happens. I think that's what it's called.

2004
01:55:40,680 --> 01:55:43,240
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't happen because of that. A falsom point

2005
01:55:43,680 --> 01:55:47,560
Speaker 1: happens because it started one place people taught and then

2006
01:55:48,440 --> 01:55:50,880
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it just completely disappears.

2007
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:54,000
Speaker 3: But you got to ask yourself, like if that if

2008
01:55:54,080 --> 01:55:57,080
Speaker 3: my theory is correct, and that that developed out of

2009
01:55:57,160 --> 01:56:02,480
Speaker 3: a stable you know, food base or whatever that was

2010
01:56:02,560 --> 01:56:06,560
Speaker 3: able that was uh enabled these guys to put that

2011
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:09,360
Speaker 3: amount of time in it, Like did something change? And

2012
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:13,480
Speaker 3: now it's like we can't we can't afford to sit

2013
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:15,360
Speaker 3: around and paint on the cave walls, like we got

2014
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:17,120
Speaker 3: to get out there, and you know, we got to

2015
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:21,040
Speaker 3: put meat on the pole. Yeah, and and and you know,

2016
01:56:21,680 --> 01:56:24,760
Speaker 3: a normal stone point that doesn't have that level of

2017
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 3: detail in it, it's gonna kill a buffalo just as

2018
01:56:29,320 --> 01:56:32,560
Speaker 3: dead as that one. You know that I broke half

2019
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:35,440
Speaker 3: of them trying to make these beautiful flutes in Yeah.

2020
01:56:36,240 --> 01:56:40,520
Speaker 1: Well and and and you also wonder how much human

2021
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:46,760
Speaker 1: uh nature was involved in this technology because I purposefully

2022
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:51,760
Speaker 1: did stuff different than Gary Nucomb did Bar Newcombe purposely

2023
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:56,440
Speaker 1: does stuff a little different than me, just in different areas.

2024
01:56:56,720 --> 01:57:00,920
Speaker 1: Just like God may have a bear. Maya woke up

2025
01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:04,960
Speaker 1: one day after his oppressive father who tried to get

2026
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:11,880
Speaker 1: into shoot bears, and so in the rear, maybe one

2027
01:57:11,960 --> 01:57:14,480
Speaker 1: day a baron Nucan wakes up and goes, I ain't

2028
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:15,760
Speaker 1: fluting anymore points.

2029
01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:21,280
Speaker 2: That means, you know, maybe maybe when they were a

2030
01:57:21,360 --> 01:57:24,320
Speaker 2: ground built, maybe they were grounded, like go flute points.

2031
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:27,160
Speaker 2: I'm not going if I leave.

2032
01:57:27,280 --> 01:57:31,040
Speaker 1: I've never fluted another point. I mean that happened.

2033
01:57:31,440 --> 01:57:32,080
Speaker 3: I know it did.

2034
01:57:32,240 --> 01:57:34,440
Speaker 1: I mean like people just going, man, you don't have

2035
01:57:34,600 --> 01:57:38,000
Speaker 1: to flut. I mean they're like secretly talking around their

2036
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:40,880
Speaker 1: little kid fire, like you don't have to flout them

2037
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:45,640
Speaker 1: to kill stuff. I killed an hard bark yesterday with

2038
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:50,680
Speaker 1: just a regular point, and Grandpa's like, what you said,

2039
01:57:51,520 --> 01:57:54,080
Speaker 1: any animal you killed better be killed with a fluted point.

2040
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:57,520
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that they were people just like us.

2041
01:57:58,080 --> 01:58:01,400
Speaker 1: You know that's somewhere heard the analogy that you know,

2042
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:05,720
Speaker 1: these paleolithic people and these ancient people, if they would

2043
01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:07,240
Speaker 1: have been born today, they could have learned to fly

2044
01:58:07,320 --> 01:58:10,120
Speaker 1: an airplane, they could have learned multiple languages. I mean

2045
01:58:10,160 --> 01:58:13,400
Speaker 1: they were just like us, and so they had they

2046
01:58:13,480 --> 01:58:16,360
Speaker 1: had they had social structure, They they loved each other,

2047
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:19,840
Speaker 1: they grieved when people died, they they got mad at people,

2048
01:58:19,960 --> 01:58:23,320
Speaker 1: they got you know. I mean it's like, so this

2049
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:25,920
Speaker 1: is all these like the same dynamics that you have

2050
01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:29,280
Speaker 1: with your boys, some paleolithic guy had with his Like

2051
01:58:29,400 --> 01:58:33,280
Speaker 1: I can't believe that kid, you know, did this or

2052
01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:37,720
Speaker 1: did that. It's just fascinating. But well, I guess we

2053
01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:41,240
Speaker 1: did have time to have this cons I guess we

2054
01:58:41,400 --> 01:58:47,640
Speaker 1: make the rules around here for real. It's because we

2055
01:58:47,720 --> 01:58:50,280
Speaker 1: had such an interesting guest, but we also had an

2056
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:53,680
Speaker 1: interesting topic podcast. And I really had to get the

2057
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:56,720
Speaker 1: water witch and stuff, you know, out on the table

2058
01:58:57,080 --> 01:59:00,280
Speaker 1: out to the people. Yeah, you know, clear the air

2059
01:59:00,320 --> 01:59:03,880
Speaker 1: a little bit, clear the air a little bit. Yeah, well,

2060
01:59:04,040 --> 01:59:05,960
Speaker 1: thanks Clay. It was really it was great man.

2061
01:59:06,080 --> 01:59:07,800
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here, yeah.

2062
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:12,760
Speaker 1: Man, yeah yeah. Well keep the wild places wild. That's

2063
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:13,400
Speaker 1: where the berries g