Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: We're picking back up at the rally where Quentin was
Speaker 2: in the capacity of security for Nemesis. At some point
Speaker 2: a confrontation developed between anti fascists and brown shirts. Clearly
Speaker 2: the instigator depends on the political orientation of the media
Speaker 2: that reports on it.
Speaker 3: But we've all seen scuffles like this.
Speaker 4: It's just they don't usually devolve to a point where
Speaker 4: someone dies, Like I can I can imagine, I don't know,
Speaker 4: I can imagine the outbreak of this scuffle because we've
Speaker 4: all seen it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I'm not going to like litigate on who
Speaker 2: started or who not. I'll never know and it doesn't.
Speaker 3: Matter because it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But I found an independent, while left fleaning a
Speaker 2: media website, contre Attique. They published several pieces on the
Speaker 2: events with claims that the fascists started to rawl. I
Speaker 2: find that one personally also more credible because they have
Speaker 2: multiple videos of photos of the far right being there
Speaker 2: with weapons including iron bars, scrutches, motorcycle helmets, and at
Speaker 2: least one smoker egg.
Speaker 4: I mean, they showed up to someone else's event to
Speaker 4: disrupt it, to cause a problem. When they got in
Speaker 4: the middle of it, they brought weapons. It's hard to
Speaker 4: say who started the fight, but I can tell who
Speaker 4: wanted to exactly.
Speaker 2: Like I've seen security at events and protests, but I've
Speaker 2: never okay, unless they were cops, I've never seen them
Speaker 2: carrying weapons.
Speaker 3: Oh I have.
Speaker 4: Well, that's more common in the United States. It's very
Speaker 4: common here. Oh wow, okay, Oh is that a pipe
Speaker 4: in his hands?
Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
Speaker 3: So he's wearing a balaclava and carrying a pipe.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not a great look, kind of classic. You're
Speaker 5: a NUTSI fit skinny jeans.
Speaker 2: The sneakers, always the sneakers, always one of those little unders.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, of course I got to pick a brand
Speaker 5: that yeah, since the beginning. Maybe some pumas in that.
Speaker 2: Of course, this will sup pumas in there. Here's another picture.
Speaker 2: It's like you can also see the motorcycle helmet in
Speaker 2: here in disguise hands.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 4: Most like a Hummu's great because it's you put it
Speaker 4: on to protect your head or you can hit somebody
Speaker 4: with it. Because he's holding it in his hand, he
Speaker 4: is not wearing it. That's a weapon. Yeah, but you
Speaker 4: have the plausible deniability of I rode my motorcycle here
Speaker 4: or this is for defense.
Speaker 2: That's what I also found. They often use like things
Speaker 2: that you could really have with like they also use
Speaker 2: belts or sticks and stuff that you could carry with shackles,
Speaker 2: slack poles, like stuff that you could carry with you
Speaker 2: with you without it being as immediately recognized as a weapon,
Speaker 2: like if you were carrying nights.
Speaker 4: After you use it as a weapon, it doesn't look
Speaker 4: like premeditation because I just had this, Yeah, the pipe.
Speaker 4: I don't know why you would just have a whole pipe.
Speaker 4: Now he was onnest way to do some plumbing Mario
Speaker 4: and Luigi.
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe he found maybe he found it.
Speaker 2: I can imagine myself carrying a sledgehammer and be like, no, officer,
Speaker 2: this is my.
Speaker 3: I was on my way to break big rocks into
Speaker 3: small rocks.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, I'm a fence. I don't think that would
Speaker 2: fly to be hones us, but those I wanted to
Speaker 2: share as well.
Speaker 3: So he did show up with a pipe.
Speaker 2: That wasn't him. I didn't think he wasn't pipe that
Speaker 2: was that was one of his friends. That was one
Speaker 2: of that was one of the far right act that
Speaker 2: was present there. One media account said he was wearing
Speaker 2: a blue hoodie Quentin, and I haven't seen that in
Speaker 2: the pictures that I could find.
Speaker 3: Well, it looks like.
Speaker 4: The only confirmed photograph of him is that one that
Speaker 4: was provided by his family's lawyer to the media, So
Speaker 4: we don't know if any of those other photos even
Speaker 4: are him, right.
Speaker 2: No, there's also not that much footage of it, to
Speaker 2: be honest.
Speaker 4: Right, but I guess there is the footage of him
Speaker 4: like lying on the ground, but I mean, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: like the only the only picture of his face is
Speaker 4: that one that was provided to the media by his
Speaker 4: family and so.
Speaker 2: Far as I found, yes, yeah, and then and one
Speaker 2: of the few of the articles, there's like one where
Speaker 2: he's like half Ballaclov out up. But then that was
Speaker 2: at some Nazi rallia in Lyon, So so it.
Speaker 3: Still wasn't his first Nazi No it was.
Speaker 2: It was not Okay, in any case, I think you
Speaker 2: would have a hard time defending that it was purely
Speaker 2: self the on part of the security of that counter demonstration.
Speaker 4: Again, no one is saying that he deserved to be
Speaker 4: beaten to death. We're just trying to figure out what
Speaker 4: happened here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Concratique also published another article on February
Speaker 2: twentieth about acts of violence from fascist militants in just Lyon.
Speaker 2: There had been around one hundred and two acts of
Speaker 2: violence as of twenty ten.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's one of vast pot From what I understand.
Speaker 2: There's lots of groups that formed in response to the
Speaker 2: fascist threats that were there, and also a lot of
Speaker 2: the fascist violence is them just harassing brown people or
Speaker 2: like Muslim people, So it's hard to get a proper estimate.
Speaker 2: But I found this one very detailed. They mentioned like
Speaker 2: from the top of their head, like twenty five different instances.
Speaker 2: The article for that will be in the show notes
Speaker 2: so people can read it themselves. Okay, now I'll cite
Speaker 2: this from France Info fr eyewitness accounts from residents who
Speaker 2: saw the flight fighting take place. Christine also witnessed the violence.
Speaker 2: I saw a fight over there with lots of young people.
Speaker 2: They were hitting each other, hitting each other, hitting each other,
Speaker 2: and then I saw a young man fall, she recounts.
Speaker 2: Maxim also saw the attackers flee. They shouted disperse when
Speaker 2: they saw I think that they might have hit him hard.
Speaker 2: They went off into all the streets. Everyone got out
Speaker 2: of their cars, some guys on scooters stopped. They put him,
Speaker 2: I assume Quentin in the recovery position. The resident explains.
Speaker 2: Neighbors then came to aid the injured. Another neighbor, Willem,
Speaker 2: saw him get up after being beaten. I went outside.
Speaker 2: I saw someone with blood on his hands. He looked
Speaker 2: a bit dazed. He was just standing. But he refused
Speaker 2: to go to the hospital, even though they offered to.
Speaker 2: I just saw the people talking to him who told
Speaker 2: him to go to the hospital. In any case, what
Speaker 2: is certain is that he refused.
Speaker 4: So this was a much large It wasn't like ten
Speaker 4: on one. It was like a group versus a group.
Speaker 2: It was a group versus a group.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a melee.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I'm not sure which article exactly was, but
Speaker 2: said that the fighting went on for like five minutes,
Speaker 2: which is a long.
Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like a long, but for a fight
Speaker 4: that's like a long, it's a lot of minutes to
Speaker 4: be fighting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, fighting is normally pretty fast, especially fighting of this
Speaker 5: level of violence.
Speaker 3: Especially if you're getting hit the head with a pipe.
Speaker 2: Or a motorcycle helmet.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a little video of it, Like I've seen
Speaker 5: a couple of very small videos of the actual confrontation.
Speaker 5: It's not like it gives the impression like because of
Speaker 5: the big repercussions, this was like a huge set piece,
Speaker 5: but it's not. It's like what three dozen people maybe
Speaker 5: at most. Yeah, and it was just like in some
Speaker 5: streets looks like street corner. Yeah, it wasn't a battle
Speaker 5: of thermopili or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm sponsored by not being able to pronounce foreign
Speaker 2: words outside of English.
Speaker 4: Well, and you could just tell us that that's how
Speaker 4: it's in Dutch and we would all have to believe you,
Speaker 4: because we're not going to find out.
Speaker 2: I'm con to use that as a caveat the next time.
Speaker 4: That's how we say it in the Netherlands, stupid Americans.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'll be saved by the fact that like Denmark
Speaker 2: and the Netherlands, nobody speaks to judge or that they
Speaker 2: confused Danish with Dutch, which is also very funny.
Speaker 5: But also yeah, I did see some kind of funny
Speaker 5: posts regarding Greenland with that.
Speaker 2: Ah, Okay, then we're at entering a whole other discussion.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But anyway, after the fighting, about half an hour and
Speaker 2: a half later in the full Chiron District on the
Speaker 2: banks of the San Quentin was evacuated in serious conditioned
Speaker 2: by firefighters. To get there, he had to walk more
Speaker 2: than a kilometer and a half, cross too bridges, and
Speaker 2: traverse the Lyon Peninsula. His route between the attack and
Speaker 2: his rival at the hospital is unknown, So.
Speaker 4: Sounds like he's just sort of staggered off disoriented, is
Speaker 4: something like that, because he was probably bleeding in his brain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he like he has a TV I right, I
Speaker 2: would imagine. So I just find it's incredibly sad. To
Speaker 2: be honest, it is sad, but.
Speaker 4: Also the like so like these bystanders are saying, hey, man, like,
Speaker 4: let's get you an ambulance to get to the hospital.
Speaker 3: Where were his friends that he walked off alone?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Where were the guys he came with? Were the guys
Speaker 4: that were fighting on his side? How did he manage
Speaker 4: to walk off alone? So these people want to make
Speaker 4: him a martyr, but like they're the ones let him die.
Speaker 2: This is also why I'm like, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: say he was Lee Beatson, because like, who knows.
Speaker 4: It sounds like a lot of people have some responsibility here.
Speaker 4: If you die, if you die after being hit in
Speaker 4: the head, the person who hit you in the head
Speaker 4: killed you. That's what it works. But like, why did
Speaker 4: his friends let him walk away alone?
Speaker 5: Yeah, knowing he was injured, right, No, even.
Speaker 3: If he weren't injured.
Speaker 4: You never walk away from something like this alone because
Speaker 4: someone could follow you and keep beating you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if there are people who are trying to hurt you,
Speaker 5: the best time for them to do it is when
Speaker 5: you're on your own.
Speaker 3: Like, you never leave an action alone.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thing, Like I guess I should just say, like,
Speaker 5: I don't know when you fucking hit people in the head.
Speaker 5: This is one of the consequences that is on the
Speaker 5: list of possible consequences. Like, I fucking hate people who
Speaker 5: hit people in the head come from a place in
Speaker 5: the world where like that kind of violence is more
Speaker 5: common because guns are less accessible to people. And like, yeah,
Speaker 5: people are going to fucking die sometimes when you do that,
Speaker 5: Like it's serious.
Speaker 4: You don't have to intend to have killed them, Like
Speaker 4: you one get punch to the head in an otherwise
Speaker 4: very fair, normal fight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone could die.
Speaker 5: Yeah, people have died from a single punch to the
Speaker 5: head that started to fight and ended their life. At
Speaker 5: the same time, I think people sometimes you know, you
Speaker 5: watch boxing or wrestling or whatever, and you see people
Speaker 5: fighting very hard and not dying. But like, you find
Speaker 5: someone with your bare knuckles to their bare head, and
Speaker 5: they could die, even if it's only once, and if
Speaker 5: you didn't mean to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just one one small vein in, one vein
Speaker 2: that gets nicked that can cause off a whole lot
Speaker 2: of trouble in the head. Yeah, and even if it's
Speaker 2: not deaf, then they're still.
Speaker 5: Like life altering consequences.
Speaker 3: Be careful with your brain, kids, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Which is why you need to wear the helmets on
Speaker 2: your head instead of in a hand.
Speaker 3: It's just using it as a bludgeon.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I can only come back to l I
Speaker 2: find it sad because it's a death that may may
Speaker 2: have been preventable with like proper medical intervention, also with
Speaker 2: like friends that that should have begged him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's pretty sad that this guy felt like he
Speaker 5: was part of something and those guys left him to
Speaker 5: die alone on the street.
Speaker 4: Late it's now they're trying to take his death and
Speaker 4: profit from it politically.
Speaker 5: And then yeah, he's only useful to him when he's
Speaker 5: fucking dead.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he's he's a little horse vessel.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a nature of fascism.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's almost exactly like Charlie Kirk, where he
Speaker 2: was more useful as a martyr than when he was
Speaker 2: just a propagandist.
Speaker 3: But then he turned out not to even be good
Speaker 3: at that.
Speaker 2: I don't think we can fault him for being about
Speaker 2: martyr for all the things. Of all the things we
Speaker 2: can criticize Charlie Kirk for, that is not one of Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not on him.
Speaker 4: Right, But I think in order to have a successful martyrdom,
Speaker 4: you have to have someone to blame, and there was
Speaker 4: just not enough publicity around the guy who actually killed
Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk, you know what I mean? Like, you know,
Speaker 4: horse vessel was killed by communists, so we're mad at communists,
Speaker 4: but like.
Speaker 5: There was an attempt to pin that on the trans community, right,
Speaker 5: like it did didn't seek the landing, and it didn't work.
Speaker 5: Should say that guy is accused of killing Curly Church
Speaker 5: as well?
Speaker 4: Exactly I don't know, but that the right is constantly
Speaker 4: trying to create a horse vessel and it just kind
Speaker 4: of never works.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean that's how the Spanish Civil War
Speaker 5: started as well, right, like they. It was probably easier
Speaker 5: in an age with less information and like party propaganda.
Speaker 4: I mean these days, these days, we would all be
Speaker 4: talking about like was horse vessel opinion.
Speaker 3: It kind of seems like maybe.
Speaker 5: He would have had a Twitter account and we would.
Speaker 3: Have and we would have said what was he doing
Speaker 3: with all those girls?
Speaker 2: Or we would have found his racist tweets? Oh well
Speaker 2: that would.
Speaker 4: It seems like a local the head of his local
Speaker 4: strum up ti long. Of course he had racist tweets,
Speaker 4: but being a pimp is not conducive to traditional Aryan values.
Speaker 2: Please, okay, okay, okay, there goes my career change. God
Speaker 2: damn it. I'm now going into the last section, which
Speaker 2: is about what happened here in your treks. They attempted
Speaker 2: to martyr him, and the Fed Netherlands had said we're
Speaker 2: coming to the Aku to hold the vigil for him.
Speaker 2: The Netherlands is an umbrella term is not the perfect word.
Speaker 2: There's lots of local defense chapters, but they have like
Speaker 2: we're ready organized, but they also have like a main
Speaker 2: telegram group. So these are people who explicitly came to you,
Speaker 2: trecked to hold this visual. The reason why I think
Speaker 2: is because they think aku A you as stands for
Speaker 2: Antifa center you trecked. Oh wow, yes, it used to be.
Speaker 2: It used to be a former auto garage back in
Speaker 2: the eighties. I think, so it says for auto center,
Speaker 2: you trecht.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm at the auto show up, I'm at the
Speaker 5: Anti Picenter, I'm in a combination auto show up, Anti.
Speaker 4: Center, I'm at the Four Seasons total landscape.
Speaker 2: That's what it is. Yeah, but it was a pretty
Speaker 2: big deal because for reasons that I still can't understand,
Speaker 2: Like the mayor didn't like instantly ban this very obvious
Speaker 2: intimidation at ten ten threats hold official in your backyard
Speaker 2: or something. It's like, there's absolutely no reason to travel
Speaker 2: to U Trekt to hold that visual other than the
Speaker 2: being threatening and intimidating.
Speaker 3: But I think that's part of why they love trying
Speaker 3: to make these martyrs.
Speaker 5: Is because it.
Speaker 4: Again, it's this like being the victim, like they.
Speaker 3: Killed one of us. How can this isn't politicism political?
Speaker 3: You can't ban our event, right, This isn't a Nazi rally,
Speaker 3: it's a vigil.
Speaker 4: It's this victimhood thing, and it does make you harder
Speaker 4: to suppress.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still find it. I'm unbelievable at the local
Speaker 2: authorities didn't do it.
Speaker 3: It's tacky.
Speaker 2: I was also there that evening because when I do
Speaker 2: activist stuff, I mostly do like like first aid at
Speaker 2: events or protests.
Speaker 3: Very noble, somebody's got to do it.
Speaker 2: I'm not a confrontational person. So yeah, I'll give you
Speaker 2: a band aid later. That's that's that's where where I'm good.
Speaker 2: You're a non combatant exactly. And I actually came from
Speaker 2: the office that day, so I was also looking very inconspicuous,
Speaker 2: which was good because I ended up standing between my
Speaker 2: left all all the anti fascists that are by right,
Speaker 2: all the black lift fascists, and I was like and
Speaker 2: then two lines of.
Speaker 3: Like riot, I'm just a band aid guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like get in a narrow alley. So I left,
Speaker 2: I'm unclosed. On my right, I'm enclosed. And then this girl,
Speaker 2: boss Ca comes up to me like, do you want
Speaker 2: to get out of here? I was like, yes, it
Speaker 2: seems like it could go wrong, and then she guided
Speaker 2: me through the fucking fascists.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like to I like to be a lot
Speaker 3: closer to an exit than nasive. Good are you?
Speaker 2: So it's It's even worse because I was I was
Speaker 2: with someone who was also doing first aids, and we
Speaker 2: tried to get back to the location and we accidentally
Speaker 2: went into an alley that at a dead end, and
Speaker 2: when we turned around that were nat season walking there.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh fuck, no. Yeah, but I think
Speaker 2: they just thought that it was a way around and
Speaker 2: had just followed also because they thought it was a
Speaker 2: way through, they didn't actually like control us or anything.
Speaker 3: That makes my tummy hertmic. I don't like that.
Speaker 2: It was one of the worst scary moments. I'm going
Speaker 2: to admit that. Anyway. The fan Nelands mostly carried the
Speaker 2: picture I sent you with like the bad AI sketch
Speaker 2: of a photo of Quintin.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm sorry. If I ever get.
Speaker 4: Murdered and you're holding a rally for my memory, use
Speaker 4: a real fucking picture of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is real.
Speaker 4: Okay they're using they're using a fake picture of a
Speaker 4: more handsome guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the other didn't flect that.
Speaker 4: You said yes, Like I'm saying, like, use a good
Speaker 4: picture of me, you know, like like a cute picture,
Speaker 4: but like they're using a fake.
Speaker 3: Picture of a more handsome guy. Because this guy was
Speaker 3: weird looking.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the person who is on the flag and the
Speaker 5: BBC article, that's just straight up not him. It's not
Speaker 5: it's not a guy who looks like him. It's not
Speaker 5: a rendering of him by AI.
Speaker 3: That is like.
Speaker 4: Old school German propaganda of like an Aryan. Yeah, they're
Speaker 4: like an Aryan specimen, where like this was like a
Speaker 4: skinny little guy who's half a Spanic.
Speaker 2: Tina Latino Latino. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Like it's just disrespectful to his memory to whitewash him
Speaker 4: and make him more handsome.
Speaker 3: You were not a good enough martyr.
Speaker 4: We had to find a better looking guy to pretend
Speaker 4: was you so we can profit politically from your murder.
Speaker 2: What pictured of you do we to do use morely
Speaker 2: in the event, Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I should, I should, I should pre yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: And then you can also select which which photo we're
Speaker 2: going to use, on which we're going to put on
Speaker 2: the banners.
Speaker 4: But it's like they don't actually care about this man.
Speaker 4: Most people holding those banners don't know that's not him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I undertand they don't. It's a very empty performance.
Speaker 4: I'm performing outrage over the like the theoretical death of
Speaker 4: a guy whose politics were similar to mine, yeah.
Speaker 2: But defend Netherlands. They also carried what we call the
Speaker 2: Princess flag in the Netherlands.
Speaker 3: Princess flag, yeah, the flag of the Prince, oh, princess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a it's a variational on the flag
Speaker 2: that we have right now, but it was co opted
Speaker 2: by the Dutch National Socialist Party prior and during World
Speaker 2: War Two, so it's now heavily associated with those groups,
Speaker 2: and that is the flag they choose to carry.
Speaker 4: I'm just skeptical of all flags, Like, unless I'm one
Speaker 4: hundred percent sure what I'm looking at, I'm skeptical of
Speaker 4: a flag because usually a.
Speaker 3: Guy that like, I don't know what you're doing. What
Speaker 3: does that mean?
Speaker 5: It is always telling when people are like, oh, this
Speaker 5: nationalist flag, the flag of our nation is not nationalist enough.
Speaker 5: Let me let me find an obscure one from the past.
Speaker 5: It has only been revived by fascists.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like anyone in South Africa carrying something other than
Speaker 4: the current official South African flags, because there's a lot
Speaker 4: of variations and they're all about, well.
Speaker 2: Well we're getting to those variations, Molly, because like the
Speaker 2: flags flag was not only used by collaborators, but They've
Speaker 2: also added, because just alluding to like the collaborationists is
Speaker 2: not enough, they added a voc logo from the Dutch
Speaker 2: East India Company onto the flag that came from fucking nowhere.
Speaker 5: God, just like these people fucking hated people who aren't
Speaker 5: white as well, like you know, just sorry.
Speaker 2: That is incredible or evil? Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can't believe we've opened that kind of one,
Speaker 5: because there's gonna be that's gonna happen in Britain now.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately I've put it in the chat like something like that.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just like comedically fun.
Speaker 5: It's a ship logo as well. It looks like a
Speaker 5: ranch brand. It looks like somebody didn't want their cows
Speaker 5: to go missing and they did that.
Speaker 3: I would stamp that on a horse for sure.
Speaker 2: It probably was probably also on people. That's unfortunate.
Speaker 5: Serious, what the fuck though, Like, I can't believe they
Speaker 5: did that. Is that a thing on the Dutch right,
Speaker 5: like like make Dutchyt India Company.
Speaker 4: Great nostalgic for the dusty dident' my loyalty lies with
Speaker 4: the Duchies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's such a niche. This is what you get
Speaker 5: from the European ultra nationalism is these incredibly niche racism.
Speaker 3: I'm a monarchist for spice trading.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's this is something they actually do. I've
Speaker 2: seen it at multiple like far eyed rallies where they're
Speaker 2: just waving that ship.
Speaker 3: And like that rocks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the poorest dog whistle that any normal
Speaker 2: human being can also here, Like, okay, you long back
Speaker 2: to the days of like killing hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 2: people for the spices that we don't use in our cuisine. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Wow, that is so niche. It's so good.
Speaker 4: That's so I hope those guys get pressed into service
Speaker 4: on a ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know they might be shipped Iran soon.
Speaker 4: Who knows, Like enjoy sailing around the world. You love
Speaker 4: it so much, going.
Speaker 2: To beangal by sale.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you love fucking racism. Getting scurvy to own the lives.
Speaker 2: You know, they will get scurvy because they won't be
Speaker 2: eating fruit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because they're exclusively eating what the Americans call French
Speaker 5: fries because of the erasure of Dutch cultural brilliant.
Speaker 2: That's true. They are more like fermented meat or something,
Speaker 2: just exclusively.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, because return but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in anyway with the rally in the end, nothing
Speaker 2: really happens. There were some chances going up, up and down.
Speaker 2: I think there were only two arrests for insulting police officers.
Speaker 2: I think one on either side.
Speaker 4: But that's illegal there. Yes, Oh I can never go.
Speaker 2: You can also just avoid police. That's that's that's the thing. Wow,
Speaker 2: they won't they won't immediately chase you with a gun here.
Speaker 2: But I've never had any experience with American cops, so
Speaker 2: there's no comparison for me. I also hope that never
Speaker 2: happens because heard stories of what happens.
Speaker 5: Yeah, American cops no good. Yeah, it's one of one
Speaker 5: of the founding principles this here podcast network.
Speaker 2: Well we have that there is one cop in nutractor
Speaker 2: was allegedly a member of like an openly toutch Nazi group,
Speaker 2: but I think he's since left it.
Speaker 3: That happens a lot here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not an uncommon occurrence. No, what's the cops
Speaker 2: and clan go hand in hand?
Speaker 3: Yea, we say it for a reason.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well we can ad cops in in company bracket
Speaker 5: Dutch East India.
Speaker 2: That those were not cops because it was a corporation
Speaker 2: chains yeah, that's an enforce urce.
Speaker 5: You can't be a fascist for the Dutch East India
Speaker 5: Company because it's something a little bit different.
Speaker 3: That's true. That's true. They were not a state.
Speaker 5: It's a non state entity. It's like an autonomous it's
Speaker 5: astonomous fascism of its own kind, kind.
Speaker 4: Of cooked for a fascist to be nostalgic for a company.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but as long as it's a nationalist company, then
Speaker 2: it's okay. This is great.
Speaker 5: I'm going to revive some like like like eighteenth century
Speaker 5: pirate ship you know when like like the British were
Speaker 5: like attacking the Dutch East India Company ships.
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring that back, okay now because fuck
Speaker 2: these people. You have my personal permission to attack Dutch
Speaker 2: sailing ships. I have that authority.
Speaker 3: But to get back Quentin.
Speaker 2: Sorry, No. There was one other thing that happened, because
Speaker 2: the day after the rally there was an unknown person
Speaker 2: who threw a smoke bomb inside the AKU. A person
Speaker 2: was never caught. I'm going to make a wild guest
Speaker 2: and say he was probably involved with Defend Netherlands or
Speaker 2: some other similar fascist groups. No one at AKU was hurt.
Speaker 2: It was mostly just an inconvenience, and that is pretty
Speaker 2: much the story of how the depth of a French
Speaker 2: Nazi involved threats to a community center in the Netherlands.
Speaker 5: Wow. Yeah, I think you mentioned Natim and called him
Speaker 5: Francis Charlie Kirk. Yeah, but it's wild how like this
Speaker 5: one has been so seized upon right by people who, like,
Speaker 5: as we said, they did not give a shit about
Speaker 5: this guy when he was alive.
Speaker 2: Now, I think.
Speaker 5: National rally would be the English or like national Assembly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think national rally is how they do it
Speaker 3: in English.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, those guys held like also like on a
Speaker 2: political level, it was like a national thing that happened
Speaker 2: where they were memorizing it and they were blaming a
Speaker 2: French on bout for whatever happens. Because one of the
Speaker 2: people who was arrested for the violence was an AID.
Speaker 2: I think to someone from French onbouts.
Speaker 3: That's not great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not great.
Speaker 3: I imagine their boss would have preferred that they had
Speaker 3: not done that.
Speaker 2: Probably probably, But it was a huge thing.
Speaker 4: And I mean, like from my end, like I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously I don't read a lot of French news, but
Speaker 4: I subscribed to a lot of Nazi telegram channels, and
Speaker 4: I see his name a lot, like the Active club
Speaker 4: sort of networks.
Speaker 3: Like it's not always directly the Active clubs.
Speaker 4: Sort of these sort of ancillary telegram groups that spent
Speaker 4: up around them, but in that milieu, they're talking about
Speaker 4: him a lot. They're talking about like, you know, training
Speaker 4: in his honor, punching communists in his honor, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean, Like is they're trying to make this
Speaker 4: a rallying point two incid buyer more violence. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: don't know if it will work long term. I've seen
Speaker 4: many such attempts that do not work long term. But
Speaker 4: it's been two months and they are still talking about,
Speaker 4: you know, hurting people in his name.
Speaker 2: Also if my doubts on whether that will work.
Speaker 3: Because they try a lot a lot, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I particular a bunch of examples of attempted martyrs that
Speaker 4: ed just like nobody remembers.
Speaker 2: I can't think of anyone exactly exactly besides the one
Speaker 2: we already talked about whose wife is now running the foundation.
Speaker 4: And for the most part it's I mean, at least
Speaker 4: in America, most of the right wing martyrs are people
Speaker 4: who died in prison or were killed by the police.
Speaker 4: We don't have a lot of sort of street deaths
Speaker 4: like this.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, although, like I do feel like the right
Speaker 5: wing Martin is killed by the police, like if they
Speaker 5: like if the Weaver family were killed by the cops
Speaker 5: to the members of the Weaver family who were killed
Speaker 5: by the FBI, Vicky wh Yeah, Like if that happened today,
Speaker 5: I think half of the right would be like, hell yeah,
Speaker 5: get them cops, like like the Bootleck attendancy.
Speaker 4: See, I mean, like they tried to make LaVoi Finicum
Speaker 4: was killed during the Bundy standoff in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: Did you remember LaVoi Finicum?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: Yeah, no one.
Speaker 4: I mean actulely babbit. Ashley Babbitt should have been their martyr.
Speaker 4: They moved on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they've been doing some acshally babbit stuff like
Speaker 5: I think they It didn't work. Yeah, it still hasn't.
Speaker 5: They're trying to bury her, I believe, with the military
Speaker 5: honors now and get her Air Force pension or something
Speaker 5: and then she can sue Capitol Police now. But it
Speaker 5: hasn't worked. In terms of popular culture, no one cares.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the closest thing we have are when
Speaker 4: white women are killed by black men or immigrants that
Speaker 4: sometimes will Yeah, that flash in the pan lasts a
Speaker 4: little longer, but even still, like Kate Steinley, Molly Tibbet's
Speaker 4: like Arena Zaritska, like.
Speaker 5: Well, they've stuck the landing with they can Riley. They
Speaker 5: had the Lake and Riley Act, right, they managed to
Speaker 5: essentially create a system where immigrants are guilty until preman
Speaker 5: innocent right now. Yeah, they have not spoken about her since,
Speaker 5: but like the legal version of the legal tendency on
Speaker 5: the right, right, the right legislative movement kind of did
Speaker 5: with that.
Speaker 4: But they are they're like constantly scrounging around for a
Speaker 4: martyr and trying to make one happen, Like in twenty twenty,
Speaker 4: like right after George Floyd Kenan Hinnant, that five year
Speaker 4: old boy that was killed by his neighbor. Oh yeah,
Speaker 4: and they're like, this is our George Floyd. You never
Speaker 4: heard about it again?
Speaker 5: Yeah, they tried and try to try and State of
Speaker 5: the Union, right.
Speaker 4: And then what was it two weeks ago he posted
Speaker 4: that video of a one being beaten to death. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it just it doesn't work, like so that the sauce
Speaker 4: isn't there for them to create martyrs, but they love
Speaker 4: to try.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in order to have a martyr, that that
Speaker 2: person needs to have had value in their eyes in
Speaker 2: the first place. And I think that's what missing.
Speaker 3: Right, because they don't care.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well they posthumously tried to kind of yeah, stack
Speaker 5: it on old Quentin here, but yeah, but I think.
Speaker 2: That this person needs to have a reason.
Speaker 3: They needed to have really died for an actual cause.
Speaker 2: Died for an actual cause, but also someone who was
Speaker 2: like broadly known and looked up to.
Speaker 4: Not necessarily, I mean, you don't have to be somebody
Speaker 4: before your death to be an important martyr. I mean
Speaker 4: Emmett till was not a civil rights activist. He was
Speaker 4: a little boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Fair.
Speaker 5: I think it's worked historically more on the left because
Speaker 5: it is people who are It tends to be people
Speaker 5: who are victimized for just for being themselves bless Yeah,
Speaker 5: people who are just existing in the world.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: It's like if you got into a fight at a
Speaker 4: Nazi rally, Like I'm not going to blame the victim,
Speaker 4: but it's not a it's not a blameless death.
Speaker 2: No, Like more like Renee Good, I think what's her name,
Speaker 2: where she was just yeah, you know, looking out for
Speaker 2: her or for her neighbors, and but then was murdered.
Speaker 3: You've been a good person in the first place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's where the right goes wrong.
Speaker 3: That's where it really goes right.
Speaker 2: That's the root cause yes, yeah.
Speaker 4: The only ones I can think of that really stick
Speaker 4: are older And maybe that is, like you're saying, James,
Speaker 4: because it was like a lower information environment. But like
Speaker 4: they still do Martyr's Day for Robert Matthews, and that
Speaker 4: was forty years ago.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like it was easier, right, like for them to
Speaker 5: do it back then, and.
Speaker 4: Like Matthews got sort of enshrined into this this Martyr's pantheon. Yeah,
Speaker 4: at a very important time in the movement. I just
Speaker 4: don't know that his death would be that important if
Speaker 4: it happened today.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think a lot about the Vicky Weaver thing because
Speaker 5: we had Bill Gore, who was a sheriff in San Diego,
Speaker 5: had been an FBI agent who was part of the
Speaker 5: operation at Ruby Ridge. It was very interesting in San
Speaker 5: Diego because initially when Gore became sheriff, you had all
Speaker 5: these people on the right lake, specifically posting on the
Speaker 5: Sheriff's department lost a lawsuit for deleting comments on its
Speaker 5: Facebook page regarding this. They can't delete comments rightly their
Speaker 5: public agency.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: Then twenty twenty happened, and that same tendency, those same groups,
Speaker 5: not the individual who bought the suit, but like those
Speaker 5: folks were showing up with their Blue Lives Matter flags,
Speaker 5: but then like also struggling to like line that up
Speaker 5: with like, oh, we should bring guns. Oh, but that
Speaker 5: would be illegal California. Oh, but we have a right
Speaker 5: into the Second Amendment. Well, who would be the person
Speaker 5: who enforced the law that you think contravenes the Second Amendment?
Speaker 5: It's the cops, right, and you're also here.
Speaker 3: Just they're so stuck. They're so stuck.
Speaker 5: Yeah, they just kind of backed themselves into a corner
Speaker 5: there where like they're in a way more ideologically consistent
Speaker 5: back in the day at least, like they're like loving
Speaker 5: the cops thing that they made part of their identity
Speaker 5: largely in the George Floyd moment, right, and the utual
Speaker 5: up riding has really fucked them when it comes to
Speaker 5: people who get killed by the cops.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so hopefully this one fades away like all their
Speaker 3: other martyrs.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know where his family
Speaker 5: are at either, like if family may not have been bigots.
Speaker 4: Right, Like have they come out and tried to capitalize
Speaker 4: on this, Like does he have a crying mother on
Speaker 4: the news talking about evil Antifa?
Speaker 2: They don't have a crying mother on the news. So
Speaker 2: I do know they have a lawyer, and I think
Speaker 2: there is some form of legal action being taken.
Speaker 4: And that makes sense because like there were people arrested
Speaker 4: who are responsible for the death, like somebody be a
Speaker 4: legal process to move forward. But I mean, like they's
Speaker 4: not like a member of his family out there doing
Speaker 4: propaganda against like anti fascists.
Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of, but they were very quiet
Speaker 2: and so far as I've could see, Yeah, like I've
Speaker 2: written this over the space of like two months, so
Speaker 2: I may have missed something somewhere, but they were pretty
Speaker 2: quiet on his activist activity. So I'm not sure how.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's something they didn't know, or
Speaker 2: if it was something that.
Speaker 3: Maybe they didn't know how bad it was, how bad.
Speaker 2: It could also have been kept quiet in order to like.
Speaker 4: You're doing a lawsuit, Yeah, right, they should say less
Speaker 4: if they're pursuit litigation.
Speaker 3: That makes perfect sense.
Speaker 4: So it seems like most of the propaganda around his
Speaker 4: death is being produced by the groups he was in.
Speaker 3: Right, you said he was in an active club.
Speaker 4: I'm mostly seeing this from active clubs, so it makes
Speaker 4: sense that they would be doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just if they're not.
Speaker 5: Like, if it happens like any someone in his family
Speaker 5: is you said, like a migrant to France themselves, Like,
Speaker 5: it would really fucking suck to know, first of all,
Speaker 5: to find out that this kid in your family had
Speaker 5: these reprehensible views, and then to see their face everywhere.
Speaker 3: Well, luckily it's not his face.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 2: To see someone else's face in his name, it's just
Speaker 2: vague resemblance. Yeah. So yeah, before we close it out, though,
Speaker 2: I do want to plug something because I do know
Speaker 2: when the ACU they shut down, they had a concerts
Speaker 2: and the entire venue was closed the day of the vigil,
Speaker 2: so they did miss a lot of income. And I
Speaker 2: also personally know a few people who spent quite some
Speaker 2: money on just barricading the door, getting iron grades for
Speaker 2: the windows or steel grades.
Speaker 3: That's dark.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so there is a donate link for the
Speaker 2: AKU because it's also entirely volunteer run. Like, there's no
Speaker 2: paid employees there. Everyone's just doing that in their spare time.
Speaker 2: So if there are people who have some money to
Speaker 2: spare and they think that's a worthy calls, then in
Speaker 2: the show notes you can find the donate link to
Speaker 2: support the local community center.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it'd be nice if people did that.
Speaker 3: That's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very heart warming to see. I think
Speaker 2: at the demonstration it self, I think that the Nazis
Speaker 2: were outnumbered like three to one, maybe more usually are
Speaker 2: usually are, but it's still very heartwarming to see such
Speaker 2: a he quick and rapid response of people just being like, hey,
Speaker 2: we don't want them here, go back to your backyard.
Speaker 2: All the vigil there and it was a thing that happens.
Speaker 2: But after we've spoken so much about weird Nazis, Molly,
Speaker 2: I've been told you do also something with weird little Nazis.
Speaker 4: Oh, I love a weird little guy. I'm to talk
Speaker 4: about them every week on my show We're Little Guys.
Speaker 4: Can find it anywhere you get your podcasts. Great, And
Speaker 4: now I'm I'm actually so curious about these weird little girls.
Speaker 3: I might have to check this out.
Speaker 5: Okay, it's new fascination unlogged.
Speaker 2: I'll share some of the links with you than you
Speaker 2: can have a starting points, although I think you're much
Speaker 2: better researcher just than I am.
Speaker 4: So unfortunately it's all going to be in French. That's
Speaker 4: what I'm married just auto translates. That's true because I
Speaker 4: also don't speak French and also translate. Safety made it
Speaker 4: a powerful enemy. Okay, the Francophone world. They're so uptight
Speaker 4: about their silly little language.
Speaker 5: I love to speak French. French speaking people, please don't.
Speaker 2: Next time I read French articles, James will send the
Speaker 2: link to you and ask you to translate them for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I'm really worried that I'm going to have to translate
Speaker 5: some heenous ship.
Speaker 2: Here's like the French version of mine COMF could you
Speaker 2: please translate it.
Speaker 3: I do have some Holocaust and dials fact.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just make sure I'm not in front when I
Speaker 5: receive them. NBA now crime true.
Speaker 2: Well you might have visa problems as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not going okay.
Speaker 5: I am no longer a EU citizen, so I now
Speaker 5: have to get visas for places too bad.
Speaker 2: And you have to be not to be declared for
Speaker 2: son and on grata. Yeah okay, then yeah, I think
Speaker 2: we can wrap this up. Thank you guys for being
Speaker 2: here and making it is a lovely time talking about Nazis.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you for introducing me to some terrible new concepts.
Speaker 3: I'm very excited.
Speaker 2: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 3: You listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here,
Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.