WEBVTT - The ETF Space Race 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.360 Welcome to Trilliance. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric bel 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:13.520 Tunis Eric. Sometimes it feels like the E t F 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.760 space doesn't have a whole lot of white space for 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.360 new products. Basically everything's taken up. I mean, we're living 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.320 in a world where there's a pet carry TF, video game, 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.400 et F, you name it, quantum computing. There's now ets 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:27.920 for things that don't even know what those things are. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.760 I gotta go research them. So yeah, there's really hardly 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.880 any more ideas here on planet Earth. So maybe instead 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.000 of looking for white space, people need to look for 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.879 real space, black space and leave Earth. That's what we're 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.600 gonna spend. What are we hinting at here? A space 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.360 the Final Frontier, literally the Final Frontier. There's a race 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.440 going on with companies. You've got the Space Force, you know, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.160 coming into play, and now there's ETFs that are sort 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.680 of trying to get ahead of that, and you know, 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.360 see if they can appeal to investor's imagination and hopefully 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.520 get some performance while they're at it. And this was 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.160 another episode where we decided to outsource it to the 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.080 ever intrepid Rachel Evans at Bloomberg News, who actually wouldn't 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.200 talk to people who are involved directly in this space. Yeah, 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.400 this from lent itself to field work because there's it's 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.520 a whole industry and a lot of people don't know 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.520 a lot about it and how legitimative is it. And 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:23.400 she found some characters, some really good characters. Yeah, this 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:32.280 week gund trillions the E t F space race and 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.080 that's when it happened. That's when we first heard that 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.839 they had come by. That's when we should have prepared 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:42.720 ourselves for any eventuality, But we didn't imagine yourself as 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.560 one of the crew of this faster than light spaceship 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.000 of the future. You'll boldly go where no man has 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:54.840 gone before, space, the Final Frontier. Just the mention of it, 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:59.000 conscious images of Ewoks, zig Stardust, every sci fi book 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:04.280 you ever read as a kid. It what if you're 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.080 grown up self could invest in the cosmos just as 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.519 easily as the US stock market. That's the mission for 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.760 a clutch of new and planned E t F s. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:23.040 They want to take investing out of this world. To 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.320 find out more about this new opportunity, I headed to 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.239 the Hayden Planetarium in New York's Natural History Museum to 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.440 meet Christopher Kramer, a PhD student at Brown University and 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.840 an expert in Martian rocks. The lady on the desk said, 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.680 I could go straight in with a thank you very much, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:57.119 thank Hello are your Christopher? Rachel everts between backing news, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.600 how how are you doing at this is cool? Christopher 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:03.639 was in town to host a three D tour of 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.040 the Red Planet, but first we sat down deep in 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.680 the bowels of the museum to chat about the types 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.120 of companies doing business in space. There's been pretty sense 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:17.440 of commercialization in the realm of lower orbiting satellites are 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.600 just they're various commercial satellites, artificial satellites that over the 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:26.480 Earth that are the foundation of various communications technologies that 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.440 we use today. And there is a big push through 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.560 the miniaturization of satellites to make it even easier for 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:38.800 various public and private interests to deploy their instrumentation of choice, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.480 their hardware of choice into Earth orbit. And so they're 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.080 huge profits to be made. And I think that they're 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.800 huge profits being made in that in that realm right now. 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.640 Even as many of us in the US now stream 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.680 a favorite shows, these satellites beam TV into millions of 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.080 homes around the world. They're also responsible for positioning technology 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.720 like the GPS in your car and ensuring that everyone 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.480 agrees what time it is at any given moment. Space, 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:10.000 Christopher tells me, could also fuel new industries from tourism 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:14.960 to mining asteroids for precious metals. It all sounds pretty 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.600 far out. So I went to meet Andrew Channon, whose 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.320 firm Procure a M is one of those planning to 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.520 start a space ETF. I asked him to tell me 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.360 how he got interested in space. So, starting off in 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.200 the et F industry in two thousand seven working for 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.400 an et F specials firm, we're seeing a lot of 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.880 innovation in the ets space. We were kind of past 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.400 that first phase where the low hanging fruit products were 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.560 already taken. So space was always one of those things 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:48.240 where looking back, yes there are satellite companies and aerospace 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.920 companies and defence companies that were kind of tied into 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.240 this broader theme. Really, we started seeing so much more 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:59.880 public interest in space over the last several years. Originally, 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.920 in our early days, it was really a government effort, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:10.640 and governments wanted to plant their flag figuratively and literally 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.120 on showing how they were the best and that they 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.040 can say we're gonna put a man on the moon 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.080 and they can do it. And I think that was 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:23.360 one way to to bring the country together but also 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:28.839 just show what we're capable of. At a certain point, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.600 governments realized that it's good for us to do this, 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.280 that we can you know, rally our our our citizens 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.280 around it. But does the government really need to be 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.120 the one coming up with all the solutions? And through 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:49.800 that realization and paving the way forward with regulations, it's 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:54.720 made companies more comfortable in trying to expand their business 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:59.760 futures into space as well. So really and very strongly 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.080 in the last decade, you're seeing a huge ship where 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.240 there's a significant amount of investment capital going into the 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:15.159 private side, not the government side, where wealthy individuals the Basos, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.760 Branson's and Mosques of the world putting their own money 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.279 where their mouth is and trying to create their own solutions. 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:23.960 But some of the things that they're trying to do 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:28.680 actually help out the governments. Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, and 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.320 Elon Musk have all very publicly pursued their own space programs, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.839 but the broader space industry also has bags of potential. 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.280 Morgan Stanley estimates that space could generate one point one 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:46.800 trillion of revenue by up from about billion today. Recently, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.240 NASA invited nine companies to bid for contracts to land 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.880 on the Moon, just after successfully landing a probe on Mars. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.280 But the space industry could also get a boost from 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.040 another dimension. You look at the universe and how how 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.840 abundant it is, and it makes people think that, you know, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.760 there's a high probability that we aren't alone. And if 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.760 we aren't alone, all of those could spring some very 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.200 new growth potential in the space industry itself. So, you know, 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.680 are a little green mental mals waking out there or 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.480 some other type of intelligent life. I don't know where 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.600 intelligent life is or what they may look like, but 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.360 I certainly would not be surprised at at some point, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.920 whether we're we're told or we actually experienced it for ourselves, 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.560 that there that we're not alone. And yeah, I think 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.960 all that makes makes everything, you know, that much more 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.920 exciting when looking at space as as an actual industry. 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:49.280 What happens when we do meet extraterrestrial life, Well, we 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.000 could become great friends and buddies with them. And we 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:56.000 could work together and we can learn their technologies and 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:00.480 make our systems even better and completely transform our of life, 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:05.280 whether it's on Earth or via using space systems and networks. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:10.160 Or what happens when extraterrestrial life absolutely hates us and 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.440 doesn't want to get along with us and they want 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.480 our planet or they want to erase us. Well, in 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.880 that case, we're gonna need a lot of defense spending. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.360 Those are two completely different paths, but ones that would 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:27.640 show very different futures for how investments this might might proceed. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.679 So how does that translate into a fund, Well, it 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:37.640 depends who's designing it. State Street is the only money 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:42.160 manager currently out with the spacecf it's Final Frontiers Fund, 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.719 which also buys companies involved in deep sea exploration, allocates 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.959 about fifty of its assets to aerospace and defense companies 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.360 already found in an existing fund. Andrew Channon can't discuss 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.520 the inner workings of his fund, as it is still 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.360 seeking approval from the u S regulator, but to look 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.120 at the index his fund plans to track suggests it 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.839 will likely allocate almost two thirds of its assets to 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.440 communications and consumer focused firms like Garmen. A third space 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.080 ETF with its own methodology, is also in the works 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:16.320 from DWS Group. I wanted to learn more about these 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.600 differing approaches and whether investors could feel misled if they 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.319 discovered their Space fund was full of everyday names, so 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.400 I spoke to the man behind the index that Andrew's 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:31.280 fund intends to use, Mica Walter Range. Mica previously worked 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.840 for the Space Foundation, a nonprofit that supports space activities, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.679 and partnering with s Network Global Indexes to create the benchmark. 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.360 I think it's largely a matter of the story of 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.840 explaining the people. Many people don't even understand that GPS 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:50.120 is an important component of their cell phones and the 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.840 other systems that they use on a daily basis. Even 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.719 in the financial industry, probably most people don't understand that 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:02.520 the timing of the global financial network is governed from space. 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:09.440 So understanding just how intimately involved space is in our 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.079 daily lives is something that I think actually does get 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.880 people excited when they realize that we have all of 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.280 these wonderful things because of space. A number of the 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.760 companies in the index are actively engaged in exploration. They're 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.160 building the technology, they're putting together the systems that will 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.040 be used to send robots to other planets, to send 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:35.319 people deep into space. If you're investing now, that's what 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.480 you can look forward to seeing in the future. The 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.600 other part is a lot of people are excited about 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:46.880 some of these new space startups. But UM these companies 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.719 that are trying to do different things from UM what 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.640 has been done in the past, or doing them in 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.480 different ways. How many of these, of course are not 0:10:55.640 --> 0:11:00.360 publicly traded, not yet. However, they off them to have 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:05.559 partnerships with the current companies that are publicly traded, and 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.400 so when you invest in those companies, you're also in 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.520 a sense investing in those partnerships. And for those of 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.880 us who are not Silicon Valley venture capital firms, it 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.040 may be the only way. That's all sounds compelling, But 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.280 I'm no expert. Do these funds pass the test? Are 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.960 they spacey enough? I asked Christopher Kramer, the Mars academic, 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.080 to take a look at the companies that Andrew's fund 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.199 will likely buy. A right, so, I have a couple 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:37.520 of UM lists of companies that are proposed to be 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.000 in UM, A couple of ets that are going to 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.120 be sharing launched. Yeah, these are all These are very familiar. 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.520 Um and a lot of these, I mean, just looking 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.040 at these, a lot of these are earth opening satellite companies. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.040 Do they seem like space companies? Do you? I mean, 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.679 obviously A T and T is kind of a telecommunications 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.440 company really, but I mean, if you're if you're criterion 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.880 it's just that that they have deployed some of their 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:05.280 corporate hardware assets beyond the edge of Earth's atmosphere, then 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.080 I would say, yeah, that's that's a pretty low bar 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.480 for entry. But I think it's the only really realistic 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.599 criteria that you can use in the year. So I 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.520 would say, um, yeah, absolutely, if you did decide to 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.520 kind of add to a portfolio, um and by you know, 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:26.320 an ATF, would you consider buying a space ETF. Would 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:31.080 that be something that would appeal Yeah? Probably, I mean 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.840 I I wouldn't. I would be cautious only if only 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:35.920 because I mean I feel like I'd be like putting 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:37.760 my all my eggs in one basket sort of thing, like, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.480 I mean, I mean, I'm more invested in space in 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:41.760 one way, and I don't necessarily want to Maybe I 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.520 want to have like a backup plan in case, in case, 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.400 like the bottom falls out of space exploration. But that's 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.160 not to express any sort of doubt in the in 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.480 the value of these sorts of investments. So if I 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.440 were doing something different in my goal were to make money, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.240 then I see no reason why not. You just don't 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:00.920 want to lose your jo of and lose your money 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:12.040 at the same time. Yeah, I think that's okay. So 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.360 that was amazing. First of all, Little Green Men. Yes, Look, 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.520 this is what stuck out to me is Andrew chaining 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:19.719 sort of and I just watched this whole thing on 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.400 Netflix about like the edge of the universe and whether 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.319 there's other life, And I love that he sort of said, yeah, 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.360 you think aliens are nice, this will make money. You 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.640 think aliens are like fear Phone will take over Earth? 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.600 This etf will also make money. I thought that was awesome. 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:34.760 And he's really upfront about the fact that, you know, 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.400 he's been interested in space for a very long time. Yeah, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.280 he's seen the movies, he's read the books. You know, 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:40.959 this is an area of interest. He actually has a 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.320 bet going on with his in law was about where 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.920 and when Little Green Men actually arrived. On this point, 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.120 this is the thing he could actually tell me the 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.679 details of the bet. I'll have to go back and 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.880 look at the details, but there is a bat outstanding 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:56.800 between him and his in law is about when we 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.760 actually get aliens on Earth and region. What was your 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:01.800 day go away from from really doing this a little 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.800 bit of a deep dive into uh space ets. So 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.040 the big takeaway from me was this kind of gap, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.800 both in terms of E t f s and in 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.079 terms of space generally, between what's kind of possible now 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.920 and the potential. So you have at the moment, satellites 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.080 are kind of the the sort of the big space 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.240 industry that's out there. Yet there's this potential for asteroid mining, 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.840 getting it kind of precious metals in lumps of rock 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.560 in space. You could be potentially seeking water from from 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.400 asteroids or even from the moon. H there's the potential 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.480 for space tourism. You know, all these incredible, almost crazy 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.560 sounding ideas are potentially possible in the future, but actually 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.720 accessing those ideas now is very difficult because so many 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.360 of those companies aren't public. Also exactly to this private 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.280 public thing, where's something like SpaceX, which is you know, 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.520 I think the third biggest adventure capital backed company in 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.640 the US right now, and and it is has been 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.440 highly successful for Evenlan masking company, but it is not 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.480 you know, a public company yet, so few people can 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.040 actually see returns on that investment. Yeah, And I think 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.600 that's really an issue with thematic funds generally, is that 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.320 how early can you get into these kind of themes. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.000 Is space developed enough as a concept to be able 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:17.960 to invest in it now? The funds that are out 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.520 there now sort of suggest that yes you can, because 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.960 you can buy satellite companies, you can buy some of 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.000 the sort of early stage rocket development companies that are public. 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.120 But it is quite a thin field. If you look 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.000 at kind of the number of companies that are in 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.040 these funds, you're looking at around thirty or so. Whereas 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.000 when you compare that to you know, an SP five 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.320 hundred fund for example, that clues in the name you 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.880 have a significantly more diversified set of companies. How does 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.640 that squere with you? Yes, So when I think of 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.280 theme ETFs exactly that I look at how much are 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.400 of these companies are just in run of the mill 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:54.080 sector or SMP ETFs And here's um the spider space ETF. 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.880 So breaking it down sent industrials, so it's heavy industrials 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.240 that is aerospace and defense companies, So it looks a 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.800 lot like X L I, but more like I T A, 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.360 which is the I shares aerospace and defense. But it 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.840 does have only three percent overlap with the SMP five hundreds, 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:12.840 So if you do own just sort of like the SMP, 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.120 you're probably not getting a lot of space or military 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.400 spending for that matter. And it's got about a fift 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:20.520 overlap with I T A, which I thought it would 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.800 have more overlap, So I don't know. It's kind of 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.280 past my overlap sniff test, I guess, And it's about 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.480 the same volatility as a sector E T F. But 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.320 if you're looking at correlations, it's going to correlated I 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.240 T A, but only correlated to the SMP five hundred, 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.320 So it adds a little diversification. So uh, it's better 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.360 than some that I've seen, but there's others that I 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.640 think are even more uh. In in this sort of 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.560 smaller niche area of a fledging industry, this one does 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.560 have some big socks like bowing and whatnot. The really 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.440 interesting thing that from a differentiation perspectives, if you look 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.680 at the cost, now that is something where you really 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.360 do see a gap between something like the SMP five hundreds, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.720 which you can get for four basis points total stock 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.600 market for three basis points. These funds, the cheapast of 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.960 which is going to charge well, does charge forty five 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.680 basis points. There's a fund in the works from Deutsche 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.359 that would be coming out dw S as I think 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.439 they're now rebranded, that will look to charge fifty basis points. 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.160 And Andrew's fund will look at seventy five basis points. 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.960 So when you think about that versus say three or 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.720 four basis points for your broad SMP five funds, you 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.840 can certainly see that there's an advantage to coming out 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.280 with these thematic products from an issue at perspective for investors. Yeah, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.399 you gotta pay a bit more. Yeah, absolutely that This 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.800 is sort of like the new active. These are ways 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.280 to sort of roll the dice and try to do 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.320 a little better. And also you can understand them, right, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.280 they capture imagination. Speaking of that, Andrew's is the most expensive, 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.720 I guess on the list, but his ticker is so 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:41.159 freaking killer UFO. I mean, he's the guy who came 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.840 up with hack, which is you know, top two best 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.960 tickers ever UFO to me, what's the spider one again? 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.360 It's x k ff. Oh god, that is so bad UFO. 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.520 To me, if if they all start out performing and 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.280 have that sort of nice performance moment, I bet UFO 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.040 does a little better simply because of that capturing of 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.160 the imagination. Although the spider one is forty five, it'll 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.639 be cheap versus sort of you know, flashing. And this 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.320 is another example where you know, we have one product 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.200 that's already out yet, Ufo not out yet, So what's 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.000 that going to be like when it finally does maybe 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.200 come to market, right, Yeah, And the same with the 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.440 Deutsch product, which also has a pretty decent ticker. They're 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.159 looking at Galaxy g l x Y, which you know, 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.280 because it's not bad, it's kind of that's pretty good. Yeah. 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.320 I think the static one is interesting because they're trying 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.119 to draw that connection with their existing sector based products, 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:28.960 and hence you've got the X at the beginning. They're 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.520 trying to align it with those other kind of sector 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.119 spider ets that are out there and suggesting that this 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.960 is a new type of sector. How much were people 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.040 are willing to talk about sort of just getting this 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:43.280 real estate now so that if this economy, which is, 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.480 you know, there's there's certain projections that put it up 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.800 close to like a trillion dollar ors over the next 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.960 couple of years that this will be a place that 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.399 we see this extraordinary growth. So just by having that 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.680 ticker and getting their first, you're basically building the house 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.159 that you'll put furniture and once the company's come to 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.000 bear later well a bit like the real space race. 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:03.800 It's all about planting a flag, right, you want to 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:08.159 claim something for that much more eloquently than I agree, 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:09.960 But I think that's I think it's very true, and 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:11.720 we've seen it time and again in the E t 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.000 F market. If you are first out there, if you 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:15.960 have a catchy ticker and can kind of get some 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.720 real estate, then the assets do kind of flow in 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.879 if you see some performance. I mean, that's going to 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:22.920 be the big sort of test of these products as 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.960 they kind of evolve. Are they able to adapt to 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.240 the direction that the space industry goes? Are they able 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.439 to in their indexes incorporate these new companies in an 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.960 efficient manner and then actually capitalize on that to show performance. 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.879 You can almost just see there's like one dynamite I 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.000 p O that happens at some time in the future, 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.520 whether it's Basin next or somebody else, and it just 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.639 totally sweeps all these up with it. Again, when you 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.119 post that there's a space etf filing, you tend to 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.359 get some snickers on Twitter. There's definitely like it sounds gimmicky, like, oh, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.119 what are they thinking of next? But let's face it. 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.119 M merri Lynch had a report which you mentioned. I 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.439 believe that the industry Morgans only sorry that could hit 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.680 UM three trillion. It's up from three fifty billions a day. 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.199 I think Berlinch also had a report, And there's are 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:09.960 Google that, there's articles on these and they're all written 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.400 very legitimately. But for some reason, you take that idea 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.920 put it in a TF and people sometimes think it's 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.520 like a scam or a gimmick, But the people you 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.240 talk to were dead serious because they work in that industry. Yeah. 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.520 I was actually pleasantly surprised by that. I mean, as 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.879 a journalist I come to all these things pretty skeptically 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.560 and trying to pick holes in these things. I actually 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:30.840 was quite impressed with, like how much potential there is 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.680 for space because it does sound like this kind of 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.800 whack a doodle idea when you kind of like mention 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.280 it's people. I think the issue is still going to 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:38.879 be can you put that into an e t F? 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.800 And that I think is still kind of an open 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.560 question as to whether these funds really do represent space. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.040 But they do seem to at least attempt to represent 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.840 it as it currently is, and I think that's going 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:52.680 to be the kind of question for these funds going 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:54.439 forward if we're really at the beginning of a new 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.439 space age where there's little micro rockets that can proventile 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.880 stuff like who knows where this goes? So did people 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.359 talked to kind of know what an e t F 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:03.240 was when you said you're like E t F reporter, 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:04.639 they had they know that? Or do you have to 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.000 go to like it's like a mutual from the trades? Yeah? No, 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:09.680 On the on the whole, people were fairly savvy about 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:11.680 E t F. I thought it was quite interesting chatting 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.240 with the guy Christopher Kramer who is at the Martian 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.280 Rock Expert. I mean, he's, you know, a young guy. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.440 You know, he's in in his mid twenties studying you know, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.840 these kind of very spacey things, but you know he's 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.240 still kind of has friends that are interested in e 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.800 TF and and understands what they were. He didn't currently 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.840 own any himself. He had a few mutual funds Index 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.280 mutual funds UM, but he know got the idea of 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.159 an e t F very quickly and was able to 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.040 kind of think about how this might work in that 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.679 sort of instrument. Rachel Evans, thanks for another field trip 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:44.200 on Trillions. Thanks for having me, Thanks for listening to 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.560 Trillions until next time. You can find us on the 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:51.359