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Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, let's be real for a second, and

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Speaker 1: y'all know I keep it a book. The job market

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Speaker 1: has been brutal, now not brutal trash, especially for women

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Speaker 1: of color. Over three hundred thousand of us have disappeared

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Speaker 1: from the workforce this year alone, and not by choice,

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Speaker 1: but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages

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Speaker 1: that keep cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate

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Speaker 1: has jumped to over seven percent, while our pay gap

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Speaker 1: continues to widen. I know all of that sounds dire,

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Speaker 1: but here's what I want y'all to know. You do

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Speaker 1: not have to wait for the system to save you.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly why I created the Mandy money Makers Group

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Speaker 1: coaching community. It is a coaching community that is built

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Speaker 1: for us by us. Inside the community, we're not just

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Speaker 1: talking about how to negotiate or to how to get

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Speaker 1: the job that you want. It's about finding purpose in

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Speaker 1: your career. It's about finding communities and others, feeling seen,

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Speaker 1: feeling heard, and also having a sounding board and a

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Speaker 1: mirror to reflect your own magic, your own sparkle right

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Speaker 1: back to yourself. In this community, you'll get group coaching

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Speaker 1: led by me, but you also get peer to peer

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Speaker 1: accountability with proven tools and resources that can help you

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Speaker 1: do what we have always done since rise. Even when

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Speaker 1: the odds are stacked against us, despite all the challenges,

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Speaker 1: we will rise. If you're interested in joining the Mandy

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Speaker 1: money Makers community and having that support to bolster you

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Speaker 1: and help you tap back into your magic so that

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Speaker 1: you can lead your career with intention and heart and

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Speaker 1: your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us. You

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Speaker 1: can find information in the show notes of today's episodes

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Speaker 1: or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's Mandy

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Speaker 1: m A n d I money dot com slash community.

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Speaker 1: I would love to see y'all there. Enrollment is open,

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Speaker 1: so please go check out mandymoney dot com slash community. Today.

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Speaker 1: Hey Brown Ambition, Hey ba fam, I want to welcome

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Speaker 1: today's guest. She is a returning guest to the Brown

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Speaker 1: Ambition Studio and just one of those people who you

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Speaker 1: can't stop thinking about after you have been grace with

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Speaker 1: their presence, and that's certainly the case for me. Ever

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Speaker 1: since she was so gracious as to join me on

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Speaker 1: Brown Ambition. I want to say a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: but Jody Ane Beuret is back in the Brown Ambition

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Speaker 1: studio and she's here to talk about her brand new book.

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Speaker 1: It's called Authentic, The Myth of Bringing your Full Self

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Speaker 1: to Work. And I know as soon as people hear

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Speaker 1: this title, they're going to like, especially Brown Ambition listeners.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be like, Ooh, I'm sacked. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about this shit right here. Jodian's a powerhouse, y'all. On

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Speaker 1: top of having a viral ted X talk about authenticity

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Speaker 1: at work, she's also a champion for health equity. Her

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Speaker 1: voice is really changing the w that we are talking

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Speaker 1: about race culture and what it actually means to be

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Speaker 1: authentic at work. Authentic for who? Authentic, Why? Authentic for

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Speaker 1: what purpose? These are all really important questions that she

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Speaker 1: challenges and asks herself and us in corporate America in

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Speaker 1: her new book. So I can't say enough about it.

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this book. It is unlike any book

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Speaker 1: that I've read recently, and it's a book I'm going

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Speaker 1: to open again and again when I sort of want to,

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Speaker 1: when you want to remind yourself that, oh, I'm actually

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Speaker 1: not alone, I'm not crazy. This is an experience that

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Speaker 1: we can share Jody, and I just want to say

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Speaker 1: thank you so much again for coming back to brad

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Speaker 1: Ambition and now you can give me my flowers. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much Vandy for having me back.

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Speaker 2: It was a pleasure meaning you. I think that was

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Speaker 2: pandemic times that we did our podcast together. And so,

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Speaker 2: you know, I appreciate you so much for being on

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Speaker 2: this journey because you know, all of that ideation and

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Speaker 2: being in a community with other people and talking through ideas.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is how books come to be, you know,

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Speaker 2: doesn't just pop in your head. It comes from interactions

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Speaker 2: with others as well. And so, you know, thank you

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Speaker 2: for being part of the journey towards this book.

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Speaker 1: And again congratulations. It's no small feet to have written

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Speaker 1: this book. And you're also you know, I think when

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Speaker 1: you first came on the podcast, we talked about your

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Speaker 1: your health journey. You what year was it you found

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Speaker 1: out that you had a tumor in your spinal cord?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that was I was diagnosed March first, twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen, and you went through a really risky surgery.

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Speaker 1: You talked to me about going skiing.

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Speaker 2: Before the surgery, snowboarding.

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Speaker 1: Snowboard? Oh sorry, what's your with your Jamaican roots? Like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense obvious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a Jamaican someone born in Jamaica and raised in

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Speaker 2: New York City goes snowboard once a week in the

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Speaker 2: winter time. Yeah, that is a logical progression of activity.

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Speaker 1: But you were already working in the DEI space even

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Speaker 1: before you know you face this health this health challenge

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a big enough word. Crisis to me

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Speaker 1: is like cis right, and even though it was successfully removed,

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Speaker 1: you are still left with chronic pain that that started

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Speaker 1: to impact you and impact you at work. You talk

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Speaker 1: so the idea of authenticity. I think, especially with women

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Speaker 1: of color, you think about hair style and well, like

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Speaker 1: we can't take our skin off, but maybe in the

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Speaker 1: actual age our skin our upbringing, our culture, our our tone,

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Speaker 1: our language, all of that. But you also have this

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Speaker 1: additional layer of I know, I don't know how you

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Speaker 1: would describe it, chronic pain disability. You have this physical

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Speaker 1: condition now that is also a layer that you bring.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk about you know, kind of thinking about

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Speaker 1: as you talk about in the book, like whether or

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Speaker 1: not to disclose that you have chronic pain and that

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Speaker 1: you may need accommodations in the workplace.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, Well thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: that setup. So I do identify as a disabled person.

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Speaker 2: My mom hates when I say that. I love calling

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Speaker 2: myself disabled. I love being disabled in terms of like

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Speaker 2: having that disability identity. What does it mean to be

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Speaker 2: a part of that community and what does it mean

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Speaker 2: to have, you know, disability change how you see the world,

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Speaker 2: how you articulate your arguments, the ways you see institutions,

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Speaker 2: the way you see communities, and how you engage with people,

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Speaker 2: places and spaces. And so I very much feel confident in,

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Speaker 2: you know, declaring and affirming my disability identity. And so

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Speaker 2: what's interesting though, is after surgery and I was I

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Speaker 2: was out of work for four months. I was on

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Speaker 2: a four month with disability leave, which was just more

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Speaker 2: time than I was supposed to have and still not

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Speaker 2: enough time for kind of like the emotional processing of

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Speaker 2: what does it mean to go through a life changing

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Speaker 2: diagnosis and surgery? And so that completely changed my body,

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Speaker 2: and so I was heavily using a cane still when

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Speaker 2: I went back to work. I went back to work

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Speaker 2: maybe a month after I started driving again, and I

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Speaker 2: used a cane intermittently for about two years, and I

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Speaker 2: think three years I used a wheelchair service in airports

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Speaker 2: because it just like couldn't make it through an airport

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Speaker 2: without any type of support. And so I all that

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Speaker 2: to say that there's being disabled in a way that

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Speaker 2: is legible to other people. So if you are a

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Speaker 2: person who has a kne you are disabled in a

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Speaker 2: way that you do not have to express, you do

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Speaker 2: not have to articulate. There's a tipping point though where

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Speaker 2: some people, because of my age as well, I was

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Speaker 2: diagnosed with when I was thirty one, a few days

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Speaker 2: before my thirty second birthday, where people might not see

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Speaker 2: you as a disabled person but as someone who is

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Speaker 2: recovering from surgery. So if you get in a little

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Speaker 2: accident and you're in crutches, you have a disability, but

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Speaker 2: maybe you don't have a disabled identity, and people do

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Speaker 2: not perceive disability identity on you. You're recovering, you're an

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Speaker 2: injured athlete. So there was a sense where I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: everyone sees that I'm disabled, right, I'm even coming to

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Speaker 2: my own identity as a disabled person. And so when

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Speaker 2: I no longer had the visual que of disability when

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Speaker 2: I was no longer using my cane than to other people,

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Speaker 2: I was someone who was not disabled. I was recovered,

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Speaker 2: and so it was very easy for them all that

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Speaker 2: accommodating quote unquote that they did, all that support that

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Speaker 2: they provided me within the workplace, that started to fade

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Speaker 2: once they were no longer visually reminded that I am

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Speaker 2: not the person that you knew before, or I am

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Speaker 2: not I don't move in spaces and I don't need

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Speaker 2: the same things as other people in the workplace. And

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Speaker 2: so I think for me, because I was reading so

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Speaker 2: much about disability identity and I was really relying on

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Speaker 2: the scholarship of crypt theorists and other disability scholars, particularly

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Speaker 2: black and brown disabilities, that I was totally enthralled and

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Speaker 2: just embracing disability as an identity. And so for me personally,

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Speaker 2: I had very little kind of ooh, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I should say about the fact that I was disabled.

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Speaker 2: I remember I had a job interview and it was

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Speaker 2: my first time leaving nonprofits and going into the startup

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Speaker 2: world and the COO during the interview, Actually, when I

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Speaker 2: went to that interview, I did not need my cane

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Speaker 2: because I knew the layout at the office a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I didn't need the cane, but I brought it anyway

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Speaker 2: because I wanted to visibly signal that, hey, you not

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Speaker 2: this is we're going to talk about this, right, so

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Speaker 2: that when she had asked me, you know, if I

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Speaker 2: felt that I was prepared to handle kind of the

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Speaker 2: stress and chaos at the startup world, I looked straight up.

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Speaker 2: I looked at her, and I was like, so I

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Speaker 2: thought I was going to die last year. There's nothing

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Speaker 2: that's going to happen here that is more stressful than that.

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Speaker 2: So when it came to asking for quote unquote asking

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Speaker 2: for accommodation, I don't even know if I did that

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Speaker 2: as much because I had the visual Q. But when

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Speaker 2: I didn't have the visual Q, I had to keep affirming, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I have a disability. I just came back from a flight.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to Los Angeles tomorrow. I'm not doing that.

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Speaker 2: I'm not needed there and I physically cannot do it.

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Speaker 2: And so when I said that, I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't need to go on this trip. It was

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Speaker 2: a problem. But then when I asserted my disability, then

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Speaker 2: she backed off. The CEO of the company that I

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Speaker 2: was working for at the time, and so I think

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Speaker 2: for me, one of the concepts that I found and

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Speaker 2: researching the book is called access fevering. It was coined

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Speaker 2: by a disability a crypt theorist Jay Logan smiggles, and

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Speaker 2: he talks about the ways that we have to steal

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Speaker 2: access for ourselves. And so I think, for me, my

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Speaker 2: priority and my kind of way of being is to

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Speaker 2: steal the access did I need. So I don't be

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Speaker 2: asking for no accommodations. I take my accommodations. I meet

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Speaker 2: my access needs by any means necessary. And for me,

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Speaker 2: as someone who has no problem being open about my disability,

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Speaker 2: I try to steal access for other people.

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Speaker 1: Hey, ba, fam, we got to take a quick break,

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Speaker 1: pay some bills, and we'll be right back. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was interesting in the book too to hear about

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Speaker 1: your different experiences with that physical disability versus the mental

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Speaker 1: health challenges you were having. So when you had depression

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Speaker 1: and you you were, like you said, you know, you

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Speaker 1: were talking about Francis at work and you were being

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Speaker 1: authentic and sharing that, and then it started to make

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Speaker 1: them afraid that it was potentially a liability for the company.

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Speaker 1: This was like, Yeah, classic example of like the double

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Speaker 1: edged sword of authenticity in a way, especially when you're

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Speaker 1: you know, with a manager or someone in a power

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Speaker 1: position of power over you that everything seems good and

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Speaker 1: they're accepting of it, and then you get a note

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Speaker 1: from HR, yeah, reiterating that, Oh, we just want to

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Speaker 1: remind you you are required to travel thirty percent of

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Speaker 1: your of the year. You know, I just want to

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Speaker 1: be sure you're committed to that. Yeah, And can you

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Speaker 1: talk about can you talk about what that experience was?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: I want to also read this, this quick little excerpt

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Speaker 1: from the book where you're talking.

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Speaker 2: Please do Do you want to read it first?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to read it. It says, and you

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Speaker 1: call it, you call the the company, the Org, the

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Speaker 1: ORGS insistence on meetings, documents, and medical surveillance dizzied into

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Speaker 1: such a spectacle the people I thought saw me couldn't

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Speaker 1: any longer. My dear colleague, whom I was am slash

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Speaker 1: am quite fond of, was still HR. I became a

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Speaker 1: problem to handle. Policy compliance eclipsed my authority to define

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Speaker 1: my needs. I was too honest, too visible, too authentic.

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Speaker 1: I was depressed, but they wanted me depressed. On paper.

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Speaker 1: I felt judged. I felt marked, not as we have

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Speaker 1: depression crossed out liability. I never talked about Francis again.

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Speaker 1: That made me so sad.

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Speaker 2: No, wait, why am I getting emotional? I hate crying

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Speaker 2: when you have under eye eyeliner on.

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Speaker 1: Another liability.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, that's another liability. Wow, I didn't know I was

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Speaker 2: going to get emotional about that. Depression is the worst.

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Speaker 2: When you're battling depression with intense feelings of suicidality, it's tough.

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Speaker 2: During that time, I was stealing a lot of access

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Speaker 2: for myself. So the ORG had a work from home

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Speaker 2: policy that I think was appropriate for any workplace where

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Speaker 2: you can work remotely. If you worked in the office, great,

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Speaker 2: If you didn't work in the office, you didn't work

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Speaker 2: in office. It was a global health organization, so by

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Speaker 2: the fact that I was headquartered here in Seattle, everybody

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Speaker 2: worked remotely because all of our projects were in Southern Africa.

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Speaker 2: And so there were a lot of times where I

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Speaker 2: would get ready and get dressed to go to work

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Speaker 2: and then I would just not do that, like I

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Speaker 2: just couldn't hide Francis that day, and I would just

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Speaker 2: work from home. And so there are parts of that

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Speaker 2: that were incredibly helpful. That I was able to not

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Speaker 2: have to perform and I could just focus on my work,

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Speaker 2: which was an important outlet for me to busy my mind.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't have to deal with that kind of

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Speaker 2: emotional labor of being face to face with other people.

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Speaker 2: And then there were times where being home alone felt

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Speaker 2: really dangerous, and so I would go to the office

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Speaker 2: and I needed to wear that mask. And also I

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Speaker 2: just needed to be the version of myself who wasn't

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Speaker 2: speaking through Francis right, that I can sit alongside Francis

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Speaker 2: and not necessarily see ourselves as fully embodied, which was

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Speaker 2: also very helpful because my coworkers saw that I was struggling,

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Speaker 2: and I was able to get a couple of folks

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Speaker 2: who were in collusion for my survival. Will say that.

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Speaker 2: So I went to Malawi on a business trip and

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Speaker 2: it was it was really really challenging. I've been in

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Speaker 2: Allowi so many times and I never had a trip

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Speaker 2: to Mali. We like that, and I was holding on

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Speaker 2: by a fucking thread. So when I came back, I

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Speaker 2: was like very chipper about it. I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm ALLOWI was great. Francis was there, FYI, I cannot

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Speaker 2: travel until I get this sorted out. I said it

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Speaker 2: very casually, very you know, and I didn't know that

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Speaker 2: that conversation would go anywhere else. Also, I wasn't scheduled

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Speaker 2: to travel. There was nothing on my schedule that I

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Speaker 2: would be traveling again. But I was just kind of saying, like, listen,

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely not I don't know what's going on, but

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely not traveling until I can get my mental

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Speaker 2: health stabilized. That ended up escalating to HR without my knowledge,

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Speaker 2: and then I felt the hammer of the entire HR

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Speaker 2: system making sure that I would be traveling, which again

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Speaker 2: there was no traveling schedule. And so when I felt

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Speaker 2: these kind of interpersonal relationships revealed themselves as their true nature,

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Speaker 2: which is, we have an institutional relationship, we have a

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Speaker 2: transactional relationship. I am an employee of this place. That

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Speaker 2: showed me how quickly all that goodwill, all that you know,

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Speaker 2: love and support can just fall apart. And now my

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Speaker 2: livelihood is potentially at stake because what they wanted me

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Speaker 2: to do I was not going to do. And so

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Speaker 2: it just was very interesting about how that same organization

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Speaker 2: then handled my tumor diagnosis handled that same person who

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Speaker 2: was depressed in suicidal how it handled someone with a cane.

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Speaker 2: These are both disabling aspects of my ability to work

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Speaker 2: here and do my work. Is it not? If anything,

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Speaker 2: having such an acute level of depression was more disabling

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Speaker 2: to my day to day life than me you know,

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Speaker 2: walking using a cane. But there was just so much

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Speaker 2: It was so much easier to support me when the thing,

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Speaker 2: the disability was visible, I think maybe more accessible for

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Speaker 2: people to understand. Yeah, it was really tough.

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Speaker 1: There's still this disc and I'm so sorry that I

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Speaker 1: had to go back to that chapter and I was like,

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Speaker 1: is she still working at the same place? Because when

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Speaker 1: you had the surgery, it was like they pulled that.

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Speaker 1: You know, you didn't have enough PTO, You needed more

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Speaker 1: time off, you didn't have enough time off. Your company

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Speaker 1: creates this pool where people can donate their PTO. I've

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Speaker 1: seen how incredible those types of pools are, by the way,

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Speaker 1: because my sister has had to tap that multiple times

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Speaker 1: for health issues. And I was always so amazed and

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Speaker 1: love that companies would even do such a thing and

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Speaker 1: so compassionate and you know, and let's rally around Jodyann,

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Speaker 1: which is what you deserved in that moment. But there's

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Speaker 1: this discomfort with depression that sticking to it like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we don't know and it and and I think this

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Speaker 1: is one of those times where being authentic and actually

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Speaker 1: sharing that I think can be really helpful because anyone

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Speaker 1: who's listening, who's in a position where they manage, they

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Speaker 1: are managing people or working with people, to think about

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Speaker 1: how you would how you would handle someone like yourself,

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Speaker 1: like Jodianne, if if you were on their team, how

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Speaker 1: what what would you say? What would you do? Would

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Speaker 1: you know what to do? Would you know how to

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Speaker 1: be compassionate? And what they would need to support them

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Speaker 1: in that time? And if the answer is I'm not sure,

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Speaker 1: then that's a question to keep asking and to create

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Speaker 1: an answer to need leaders who, especially in this day

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Speaker 1: and age, how commons depression especially it was a pandemic. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we should probably have a plan for this, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I that must have created such a and help You

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Speaker 1: didn't stay there very much longer?

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Speaker 2: But no, And of all the jobs I've had, I

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Speaker 2: was there the longest. But I think even if everything

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Speaker 2: was if I didn't have those negatives, I didn't leave

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Speaker 2: because of that. I left because, you know, to the

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Speaker 2: point of being even talking about tremain Leed's book and

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Speaker 2: his experience, I went through a massive health crisis that

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Speaker 2: changed how I saw myself. In order to stay alive,

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Speaker 2: to still be here, I had to change my life.

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Speaker 2: I could not fit this new version of myself into

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Speaker 2: the routines of my life that I had before. And

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Speaker 2: so a big part of that was leaving the comfort

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Speaker 2: of this job that I knew because I had so

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Speaker 2: much social capital, that would be the ideal place for

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Speaker 2: me as I was navigating you know, this post operative

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Speaker 2: recovery and you know, shifting of my own self concept,

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Speaker 2: that was the best place for me to work. But

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Speaker 2: I could not be the same, be a different person

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Speaker 2: in the same setting. So that's really why I left.

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Speaker 2: But I think because of that experience. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: a there's a line in the book that people have

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Speaker 2: picked up on as they've been reading it and talking

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Speaker 2: to me about it, where I say, I'm not a worker,

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Speaker 2: I'm a person at work. And it was because of

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Speaker 2: my disability experience, because I went through that that even

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Speaker 2: when I went on to manage other people, I don't

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Speaker 2: need a checklist that says, what do you do when

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Speaker 2: your report has someone who passes away but they're not

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Speaker 2: a close family member. What do you do when you

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Speaker 2: know you're a coworker, your report needs this thing, but

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Speaker 2: there is no policy in place of how to get

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Speaker 2: them that thing. My report is a person, and so

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Speaker 2: I treat them like a person and we figure it out.

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Speaker 2: And so in a lot of ways, they're regardless of

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Speaker 2: whatever the policies are within the institution, within the workplace.

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Speaker 2: As a people manager, you can still access on their behalf. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you gotta go do this thing, you gotta go do that. Cool.

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Speaker 2: I'm not telling nobody that, like, go do what you

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Speaker 2: gotta do, right, you know, if I'm working with an

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Speaker 2: independent contractor and there's no built PTO for them, yeah,

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Speaker 2: take the rest of the week off and build hours.

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Speaker 2: You know. So, what are ways that we can steal access?

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Speaker 2: What are ways that we can And I love the

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Speaker 2: idea of thievery. I love the idea of stealing because

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Speaker 2: that's the thing that managers and companies are so afraid of.

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Speaker 2: That's why they make accommodations processes so hostile, because they're

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Speaker 2: trying to weed out people who are quote unquote gaming

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Speaker 2: the system, quote unquote abusing the system. There's this woman

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Speaker 2: because I was talking about this on LinkedIn and she

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, some of these people, they're like

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Speaker 2: children and they want to take a whole day off

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Speaker 2: because they have a hangnail. And what's it to you?

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Speaker 2: Do I not have PSI, Oh, it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 2: I do during that like to.

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Speaker 1: Be a woman of color and to need additional accommodations,

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Speaker 1: it just feeds into that whole idea of us being

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Speaker 1: leeches on society and you know, resource sucking. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's this whole narrative, this toxic narrative that we're in

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Speaker 1: now that's and free to persistent proliferate. That makes me

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Speaker 1: really worry. I mean I've been worried, but like even

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Speaker 1: more worried for you know, BIPOC people at work, women

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Speaker 1: of color like who are dealing with something and are

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Speaker 1: too afraid that that may make them a target. I

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Speaker 1: want to read this other little excerpt from the book.

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Speaker 1: I didn't take note of chapter titles or page numbers,

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Speaker 1: but this.

403
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Speaker 2: Is no perfect that's the galley, so who knows if

404
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: it's still in the final.

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Speaker 1: Honest, yeah, I was like that's a type of wait,

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00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: this is a galley. Yeah, I love it all right.

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Speaker 1: In this excerpt, you say my manager knew about my

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Speaker 1: spinal cord injury. But when you're black, or a woman

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Speaker 1: or fill in the blank with inconsistent access needs, she

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Speaker 1: treated me like I was either lying, lazy, or just

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00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: being difficult. I didn't look broken enough for accommodations. I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel broken enough to insist. I stood on stages

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Speaker 1: in pain, sat in hours long meetings in pain, traveled

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Speaker 1: without notice in pain, and stayed quiet in pain until

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Speaker 1: I couldn't. I need this because of my disability. I

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Speaker 1: can't do that because of my disability. My manager apologized

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Speaker 1: one week, only to push back the next. It was

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Speaker 1: a boom bus cycle of disregard. I read that because

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Speaker 1: I mean, I do career coaching, right, and I have

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Speaker 1: coached women who are dealing with this exact same scenario,

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Speaker 1: and it's an impossible, like an almost impossible situation. And

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, now, how you don't currently like

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Speaker 1: you worked for a big corporation in Seattle, one of

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Speaker 1: the big ones, right, and since then you've carved out

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Speaker 1: this career for yourself as a speaker and an author

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Speaker 1: and a writer. Do you ever feel like there's a

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Speaker 1: place where you could find in corporate or in a

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00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: traditional role where you could be comfortable bringing all the

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Speaker 1: layers of yourself today as a version of yourself as

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Speaker 1: you are. I'm asking that because I asked myself that question. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. If I could, it would take a

432
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: really special place.

433
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean no, I don't know, and I don't

434
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: even know if I'm looking for that. I think if

435
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: I were ever to go back to traditional work what.

436
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: I don't know if this book disqualifies me. I don't

437
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: know if this book makes me unemployable real talk?

438
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: You mean your book about being authentic? Have you authentic?

439
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: Girl Boss? Too close to the sun.

440
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: That's my fear too.

441
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if this podcast makes me employable?

442
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah certainly.

443
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: Not, because girl, I don't know if you so today

444
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: literally the episode aired on Brown Ambition, where it's me

445
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: opening taking off the mask of depression to my audience

446
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: and part of and the huge reason why I did

447
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: that is because I just felt like a liar and

448
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: I hated it because I'm not a liar. I don't,

449
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: I I have I'm always authentic. But I hadn't up

450
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: I hadn't updated my my own iOS to the people. Yeah,

451
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: I you know, like there's a version of me that has,

452
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, has emerged the past couple of years. I

453
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: just haven't updated my iOS. It wasn't matching the tone,

454
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: the brand, the the persona that was true to.

455
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 2: Me a couple of years ago.

456
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: I just needed to update them. You know, here's a

457
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: little iOS update. I just wanted to let you know, Yeah,

458
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: you can opt down or you can like get on

459
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: board and the vulnerability hangover afterward.

460
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was.

461
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: Like, thank god I have Jodianne to talk to me

462
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: about this decision.

463
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: You know, I'll say this, whether I did think about that,

464
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: does writing a book? Does saying the things that I

465
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: want to say make me unemployable? And then a really

466
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: good friend of mine reminded me that capitalism eats itself right.

467
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 2: You can have books that are critiquing capitalism, that are

468
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: critiquing Amazon, and it could be the number one book

469
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: on Amazon. So it's just like, like, I'm not too

470
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: too worried about that. But you know, I had a

471
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: friend text me a couple of years ago who he

472
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: found some job opening somewhere and he's like, man, Jodyanne,

473
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: like I work here, I can connect you. I saw

474
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: this job posting and I'm like, wow, this company could

475
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 2: really use a leader like Jodianne. And I texted back

476
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: as a baby, I work for myself. Now, here's what

477
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: the real question is, does Jodianne need a company like this?

478
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: And so I'm not really looking for a place where

479
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: I can bring my full authentic self to work. That's

480
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: just a narrative that I don't subscribe to, you know.

481
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: Right now, my priorities like can I if I go

482
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: back to traditional work, not even that. The thing that

483
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: needs to solve for is health insurance. I need better,

484
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: more affordable health insurance and in America, because we only

485
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: save people lives that can if it can make companies money,

486
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: it is really difficult to be a full time artist

487
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: and stay alive. And so that's what I'm solving for.

488
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: And so if I work anywhere, I'm trying to figure

489
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: out what the health insurance policy is looking like, I'm

490
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how much you're gonna pay me.

491
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: I'm trying to carve out some type of work that

492
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,239
Speaker 2: makes me feel good about myself. That's in alignment with

493
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: my values, that allows me to develop X, Y and

494
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: Z skills. And I'm potentially looking for I'm not really

495
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: looking for a place where I can quote unquote be

496
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: my whole self.

497
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: Heyba fam, We're going to take a quick break, break,

498
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: pay some bills, and we'll be right back. Yeah, there's

499
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: a part in your book that really resonated. I mean,

500
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: so much of it resonated with me. But you so

501
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: in terms of like I feel very similar to you,

502
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm not. I wouldn't be naive enough to think that

503
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: I could really do that. You know, I'm not that age.

504
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: But there was a time where I was that naive.

505
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 1: Oh bless her, And I was very much like this

506
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 1: woman in your book that you talk about. You're at

507
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: you're at a startup. You're you're working in the DEI

508
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: kind of space at the startup, and you're on stage

509
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: and you're obviously a black woman. And there's someone in

510
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: the audience who comes up to another black woman and

511
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: she's like starry eyed, like Jody Hann's there, it must

512
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: be great for us, And you look at her and

513
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: you're you're trying to like convey the get out stare

514
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: like yes, no, no, no, no, no no.

515
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: Are you sure?

516
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: And then and then soon enough you see her at

517
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: the company. She's gotten a job, and you kind of

518
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: have this and you have this like back and forth

519
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: on the phone voice notes where she's like yeah girl,

520
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: and you're in Europe. You apologize for like not I

521
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: guess what, like not warning her more effusively. But she's like,

522
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: in that frame of mind, I wouldn't have listened. I

523
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: was exactly like her, walking my starry eyed self into

524
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: like the last major corporation I worked with, and I'll

525
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: never forget that, you know. And I was being trotted

526
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: out on a virtual stages as during the pandemic, trotted

527
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: out on the I was in a very public facing

528
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: persona role to be like consumer facing too, you know.

529
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: And I was hired the Sun in the winter of

530
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: twenty twenty sorry, yeah, twenty twenty one, so post everyone

531
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: trying to find their black unicorn woman to represent the brand,

532
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: right should have known whatever didn't. And there was two

533
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: women of color, two black women who like just were like, oh,

534
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: I'd love to put time in your calendar to get

535
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: to know you, and one in particular was like, girl,

536
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: this is not what you think it is. And I

537
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: remember leaving that call like, wow, misery loves company. Some

538
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: people are just so native, doesn't she know I'm different

539
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: and special?

540
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is I'm.

541
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: Going to change the shit. And meanwhile completely and was

542
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: out on my ass like just a few months later.

543
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: And so this part where you say, when you realize,

544
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: you say the startup want in my black face, my

545
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: black experience, my black insights, my black abundance, my black

546
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: professional network to evade criticism for being yet another company

547
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: built for white women, by white women. But the visibility

548
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: imposed on me aligned with my desires to advance my career.

549
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: Nonprofits didn't pay as well or offer enough public exposure.

550
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: And you use an expression we're going to talk about.

551
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: I took a sabbatical gaze in pursuit of the kind

552
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: of professional visibility I wanted that that was so real,

553
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, because I wanted that damn job Ooh it

554
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: felt good to be chosen for that. It felt like

555
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: big brand, big money, big opportunity. The ego was purring.

556
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and I.

557
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: Was being set up to fail. And so I want

558
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: to stop there and ask you to talk about the

559
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: sabbatical gaze and what that means and where that comes

560
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: into play in your career.

561
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one, apologies for the long care happening outside

562
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: my door. I can't hear it. Oh okay? Am I

563
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 2: the only one? Okay, if you can't hear it, then

564
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: I'll stop worrying about it.

565
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 1: Riverside and Zoom are very good about like, Okay, don't worry.

566
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: I can't, okay, because I've been sitting here freaking out.

567
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: So the sabbatical gaze is my riffing and trying to

568
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: think with my kind of first intellectual hero Bell Hooks.

569
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 2: And so, in one of her books, Black Looks, Race

570
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: and Representation, she talks about the oppositional gaze, and she

571
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: interrogates black women's looking relationships with pop culture. What are

572
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: the ways that we have to be critical spectators because

573
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 2: there are the dominant narratives don't exist to affirm us.

574
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: So there's this way that we have to kind of

575
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: ignore our own identities and ignore everything that we know

576
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: to enjoy this movie, right, to watch, to watch this

577
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: TV show, to listen to this song. And so in

578
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: the chapter where I'm talking about this, I mentioned this

579
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 2: Nike commercial that Serena Williams had narrated, and I think,

580
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: like a lot of black women, we feel very connected

581
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: to Serena Williams because she is the image of black excellence.

582
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 2: But her excellence is not enough to protect her professionally.

583
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: It's not enough to protect her in terms of her

584
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: own life, you know, even going through a major health crisis.

585
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, Serena Williams almost died during childbearing,

586
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 2: and her excellence and her money and her status didn't

587
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: protect her. So what hope do we have? And so

588
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: I'm so emotional about them. I could watch that commercial

589
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 2: right now and cry. But Alicia Montano, who's a middle

590
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: distance runner, I believe, a world champion Olympian. She was

591
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: branded as the pregnant Runner because she competed twice pregnant,

592
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: once when she was like eight months pregnant too, so

593
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: she just got dubbed the pregnant Runner. She was also

594
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: sponsored by Nike. She came out with The New York

595
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: Times op ed and many many documentary and started this

596
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: campaign called Dream hashtag Dream Maternity, and she talks about

597
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: the ways that as a Nike sponsored athlete, when you

598
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: are Even though she was celebrated for being pregnant, she

599
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: got all, the visibility for being pregnant, her pregnancy was

600
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: not supported. Nike and Olympic Committee do not pay athletes

601
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: who are pregnant postpartum. If you are not racing, you

602
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: do not get paid and you do not get health insurance.

603
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 2: And so Alison Felix, one of our most decorated track Olympians,

604
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: also talked about the ways that she was not paid

605
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: and didn't have health insurance when she was pregnant with

606
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: her child. And so I had a feeling about that.

607
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 2: It's Nike. Why do I think Nike's out here standing

608
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: for women and girls? Despite the Serena Williams of it all,

609
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: despite the message of it all, there are ways that

610
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: we can just get lulled into the seduction of feeling

611
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: so seen by these images that we don't want to look.

612
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: And so maybe we clock the criticism, we clock the questions,

613
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: and so what are ways that we are intentionally not

614
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: doing that work? And so we take this kind of sabbatical.

615
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: I see it, I could do it. I see the analysis.

616
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,240
Speaker 2: I don't want to engage, I don't want to look.

617
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: I want the pleasure of feeling seen. And so what

618
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: happens though, when you take that rest is other people

619
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: are looking at you. So I'm here pursuing the things

620
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: that I want to pursue professionally, and other black women

621
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: are looking at me thinking that if Jodiane is here,

622
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,919
Speaker 2: then this is a safe place. And it's not enough

623
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 2: for me to be safe. It's not enough for me

624
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 2: to get what I want from this particular company. If

625
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 2: that means that I'm hurting other black women, that hurts me.

626
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: And so just kind of pushing back on myself for

627
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: the ways that we take these sabbatical gazes and we

628
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: don't want to engage. It corrupts us in the type

629
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 2: of way.

630
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: Well, my heart is like I mean, to your own

631
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: point in the book, you talk about how at the

632
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: end of the day, it's capitalism that's the enemy. It's

633
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: these corporations. It's not like you, Jodyanne, would be responsible

634
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: for every black woman who like that's the weight of

635
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: being the only one or if you only different, right

636
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: that you have to sort of release yourself of that pressure.

637
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: I know you know that and all that.

638
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, it's not that I feel pressure.

639
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: It's am I walking in alignment with my own values?

640
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 2: Am I moving in a way that I feel good

641
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: about that is also authenticity, and so my pursuit for

642
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: visibility is yes, true, But what am I willing to

643
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: sacrifice because what happened to me at that job is

644
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: that I stood in this in between. I'm representing an institution,

645
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 2: but I also represent this community. And so if I

646
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: do something right at the company, I'm hurting people that

647
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: I care about. And if I try to steal access,

648
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: if I try to, you know, create spaces for them,

649
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: then I'm compromising my standing at the company. And so

650
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: it's about just not to say that there's a right

651
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: way to decide I was out of alignment with the

652
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: way that I wanted to move.

653
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: Asking yourself that question, like, am I in alignment? It

654
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: can be really scary, especially in a time like this.

655
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: Some people who are out of alignment don't have the

656
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: option of getting in alignment, you know, if that means

657
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: quitting and finding a new opportunity. You can't always plan that.

658
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: It can be a really it can be isolating, kind

659
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: of depressing place to be. What would you say to

660
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: a woman who's listening and then feeling that way.

661
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a nice say this. In the book.

662
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: Several times I'm not telling you to quit your job.

663
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 2: That's not my job. I'm laying out my own experiences,

664
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 2: experience of other people. I'm laying out research and cultural commentary,

665
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: all of these things, and you, I hope it's confronting,

666
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: and then you decide, however, you decide of the ways

667
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: that you want to move after that, I would say

668
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: to look at the ways that you're defining status and

669
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: success and if maybe that's a way that is driving

670
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: you to make decisions that are harmful to your health,

671
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: well being, self concept, et cetera. Because we can even

672
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: see in this kind of labor movement surge that's been happening,

673
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: you know, since the pandemic with a great you know,

674
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: resignation and all the kind of worker actions that have

675
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: happened since, is that what I have found is that

676
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: people who have the most resources feel like they have

677
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 2: the most risks. They can't lose that big job at

678
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: that big corporation. That's you know, sinking them into a deeper,

679
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 2: deeper depression every day. I know a lot of people

680
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: who are very well educated, very highly paid, and they

681
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: make decisions in ways that you think that if they

682
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: didn't have this job, they'd be on the Street tomorrow.

683
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 2: So I would just kind of challenge that that there

684
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: is more room to make changes in our lives than

685
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 2: we think, because I feel like the people who take

686
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,959
Speaker 2: the most risk are the people who have the least

687
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 2: amount of resources, and often they're advocating on for all

688
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: workers in a way that we eventually benefit. And so,

689
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 2: as someone who lives in Seattle, I've never worked at Amazon.

690
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: I've interviewed, but I've never worked there. But the ways

691
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: that Amazon treats its warehouse workers are structurally very similar

692
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: to the way that they treat black and brown people

693
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 2: who work at headquarters. And so if the office workers

694
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: and the warehouse workers were in collusion in some way,

695
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 2: maybe there's a larger movement for workers' rights that could

696
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: on the horizon for us. Those are big macro things,

697
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: you know. If I'm talking to an individual person about

698
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: their individual problem, I would just encourage them to really

699
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: survey their lives and survey the decisions that they can make,

700
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: and to see what are ways that we can better

701
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: ensure our health and well being. I don't know what

702
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 2: that looks like. You know, our jobs are also tied

703
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: to health insurance. It's the way that we can take

704
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: care of ourselves the way that we take care of

705
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 2: our families, and for a lot of black and brown communities,

706
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: we're not just taking care of the people in our

707
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 2: household and so and especially during the time when black

708
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 2: women are being so unlawfully and morally targeted and our

709
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: livelihoods and survival are on the line, and there's a

710
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: not insignificant portion of the country that are celebrating that,

711
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 2: I think the calculus just looks different. So I would say,

712
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: think about your choices and know that you cannot make

713
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 2: a bad choice. You can't make a bad decision.

714
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: And decisions don't have to be permanent either, absolutely not

715
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:23,959
Speaker 1: an idea of permanent absolutely not scovering yea, yeah, yeah.

716
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: I think what I enjoy about your book too is

717
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: it's not like you say, you're not giving one clear path,

718
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: but it is. It is a challenge and a call

719
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: to action to just like examine how you're moving and

720
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: and to not I feel like to not have the

721
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: illusion that what we do at work doesn't impact our

722
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: well being. Overall that being said, I feel like the

723
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: freedom of just like not like disassociating, but looking at

724
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: your the way who you are at work, A little

725
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 1: bit different than where you are outside of work can

726
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: be helpful. I guess you'd call that code switching, but

727
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: maybe not looking. Do you think that people? Do you

728
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: think that it's too risky to look for community, I

729
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: know community and like looking for to be seen and

730
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: to like have build those relationships. Do you think it's

731
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: in this current climate too fraught, too risky to open

732
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: up to colleagues at work at a time like this,

733
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: and that we should be looking, you know, more to

734
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: spaces like this, you know, to one another, to peers

735
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: outside where you're not where, yeah, where it's maybe a

736
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: little bit safer to be your be yourself honestly.

737
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: And this is the biggest driver of the book is

738
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 2: where are we gathering and how we build relationships and

739
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: community beyond the institutional gaze. There's so much of our

740
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 2: relationship building that is so surveilled within the workplace. Even

741
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: employee resource groups as like such a wonderful, beautiful space

742
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: to find other people who are similar to you, have

743
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 2: similar experiences, you know, have similar values to you. That's

744
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: also an incredibly surveilled environment. And there are limitations on

745
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 2: what you can do together. And so I'm a firm

746
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: believer in Whisper and Whisper networks in building relationships outside

747
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 2: of work. You can build professional relationships that aren't necessarily

748
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: within your organizational reporting lines. And so I think the

749
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 2: biggest thing for us, you know, in this new kind

750
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: of authoritarianism and fascist regime, is to find communities and

751
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: building strong communities that are not surveiled. That is the

752
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: foundation of of whatever is going to come next. And

753
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 2: so that was a challenge for me, especially coming out

754
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: of the pandemic, especially coming after a major health crisis

755
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: where a lot of the relationships that I had did

756
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: not exist anymore after I got out of the hospital,

757
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: which is like a whole other conversation for a whole

758
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: other podcast, but my whole entire social world fell apart

759
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: than the pandemic. Then I don't work anywhere, you know,

760
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,959
Speaker 2: I don't have people that I get to see every day.

761
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: And so even in the and then writing a book

762
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 2: makes you really isolated. And so even the process of

763
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: writing this book, I was like, girl, where are your people?

764
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: When shit goes down? Where are you going? Who has

765
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: your back? Who's back do you have? You know? And

766
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: so that has pushed me to create with other people

767
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: you know a big I do this reading series in

768
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: Seattle now called Lounge. The people's art and the people

769
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: that I'm working with we used to work together at

770
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: a company, right, But I was like, wait, you know

771
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 2: how I work. I know how you work. Hey, let's

772
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: do something for the people. And even through building lit lounge,

773
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: building that community of just so many beautiful black and

774
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 2: brown people who want to spend a Friday night, you know,

775
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 2: listening to literature, that is the foundation of whatever could

776
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: come next. And so I would just encourage people to

777
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: build and invest in your social worlds because then the

778
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: multiplier effects of that are just limitless.

779
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: And like your physical social world, not the parasocial like

780
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: the social media, which has place, right.

781
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: It has its place, But you got to know people,

782
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 2: like you got to know somebody who's going to drive

783
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: soup to your house, right, You got to know somebody

784
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: that you know when they're having a tough time, you're

785
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: dropping everything to go and support them, like deep, deep,

786
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: deep community. That's not a like on Instagram. What are

787
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: ways that we're showing up Because when the risk is high,

788
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 2: which it is high, incredibly high for us. Now, we

789
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: need those people.

790
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: I wish we had more time. Well, we do have

791
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,439
Speaker 1: more time. I mean, I think, you know, being clear

792
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: across the other side of the world. Remind me how

793
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: the hell'd you end up in Seattle again?

794
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,479
Speaker 2: Was it school child? No, I came here. I came

795
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 2: here after I got my master's screen public health, and

796
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: I took a job out here at the Org and

797
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 2: I worked there for almost five years and I just

798
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: haven't left. Seattle is a hard place to be in,

799
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: but it's a really difficult place to leave.

800
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: Interesting, okay, yeah, kind of suck you in. What is it?

801
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: You know, very moderate weather. You know, I can get

802
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 2: to the mountains within an hour and a half. No

803
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 2: one looks nice here, so just wear sweatpants every day.

804
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: I like composting. We're mail in only Dallot State, So

805
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 2: I like voting. You know. It don't take me longer

806
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: than fifteen minutes to drive anywhere. It's just a very

807
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 2: convenient place. But it's so white. It is suffocatingly white.

808
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: And so that's why I love lit Lounge because at

809
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 2: least I get to see a bunch of black and

810
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: brown people.

811
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: I love that for you too. And also my favorite,

812
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: one of my favorite dance clubs in the city was

813
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: like on East fourth Street. It was called lit Lounge.

814
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: It's no longer with us, But.

815
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 2: Wait, is that what it was called? It louds that's

816
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 2: a lit lounge. Oh my god, I love that.

817
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: And I was there Friday and Saturday night every weekend

818
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: during a very particular time in my life. Yeah, twenty

819
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: eleven through twenty about fourteen. I can't believe I was outside,

820
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: like old enough to know a club that's no longer

821
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: open in New York.

822
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: You're so funny. Let me tell you what I was

823
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: in New York in my twenties. I would leave my

824
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: house at midnight to go club. That is oh my god.

825
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 2: I still want to do that.

826
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: But you have breakfast when you get home, because it's

827
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: like six four six.

828
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: For all the twenty somethings be outside, yo, have fun,

829
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: have so much fun.

830
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: Because now I mean, but you could still I mean

831
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 1: you could still be there. You don't got no kids.

832
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, but I'll be wearing sneakers.

833
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: Insomnia. Are you still dealing with insomnia or no?

834
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always doing I'm like to work.

835
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: I got sleep apnea, so I'm not sleeping anyway. I

836
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: might as well go.

837
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: To the go.

838
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: But I got these kids at home.

839
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 2: I can't do it. But you know, it was just

840
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: me and my thoughts.

841
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: Throw out where we're not that old, Jodi am. We

842
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: can't be like enjoy your youth.

843
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: No, I'm still out here. Okay, I'm outside.

844
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: I've had to reckon with being the suburban housewife that

845
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: like Chapel Roone makes fun of and all her music,

846
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: and I'd be like jamming to her songs and be like,

847
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: oh no.

848
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: I only known in name only. I don't know anything

849
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: about this individual.

850
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: Oh her music, it's good, little, it's my little. I

851
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: think some people they have like their uh their what

852
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: you call it, like guilty white girl, white girl music, guilty, pleasure, chopel,

853
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of mine.

854
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 2: I'm still listening to the nineties R and B child

855
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,439
Speaker 2: like whatever music was popping when I was in high

856
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: school in college. I still listen to that.

857
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: I love. Okay, that's probably a healthy replace team. What

858
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: do you mean I'm not being I'm not feeling seen

859
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: by like a twenty four year old white woman from

860
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 1: Saint Louis like weird, so weird.

861
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: But I love that for you. I do love that

862
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 2: for you. I am on the dochi train. So I

863
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: have updated, so it's like me too.

864
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: I've seen her in a week in Atlanta.

865
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: Could I tell you when I texted my nieces Seattle, Yes,

866
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: yes she is. Thank god is that would have traveled? Yes,

867
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 2: she is. For her, I actually had tickets for Infinity

868
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 2: Song that night, and so Infinity Song I already had

869
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 2: those tickets, but then Doci. I was like, I'm so

870
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: sorry Infinity Song. I wanted to rock what you loved

871
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: that little uh it's like a black sibling, a yacht

872
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: rock group. Yes, love them down. But Doci's come the

873
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: same night, and I just it's one of my life

874
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:47,919
Speaker 2: goals to see DOCI life.

875
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 1: So we're both Doughchi stands okay connect.

876
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm super excited. I was when I first heard

877
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: of music. I texted my nieces there in their twenties,

878
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: and I was like, hey, what do we think about Doci.

879
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: And then a couple of weeks later when I talked

880
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 2: to them, they're like, yeah, when we saw that, we're like, yo, Auntie,

881
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,919
Speaker 2: Jody's gone. She's gone. And I was gone because once

882
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: I started learning about Don't Chi, I'm gone. I'm with it.

883
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: I'm in the swamp baby, let's do this.

884
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: I'm in the swamp. I'm like boiled peanuts. I know

885
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: what boiled peanuts are. I grew up in Georgia.

886
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: I love that. For you, I don't, but I'm just

887
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: here for it.

888
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: It's disgusting, is what they are. I don't fuck with

889
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: boiled peanuts.

890
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 2: Gross.

891
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: They sell them in plastic sacks on the highway. That's

892
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: what I know. On the way to Panama City for vacation,

893
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 1: you would see a boiled peanuts stand and they would

894
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: just be slimy. I mean, imagine a peanut and water

895
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 1: Costic as a child with the dianut skins getting sloughed off,

896
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: even the soft little.

897
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: But I as a child with diaspora. I support street food.

898
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 2: I love food at the start of the road. I

899
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: think that's been the backbone of our survival.

900
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll take a tomato. I'll take a you know,

901
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: a meat pie. I'll take a little pasto. We're in

902
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: d r but no, noo peanuts.

903
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we still love you, Doc, and we'll

904
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: be there at the concert.

905
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: What else is making you smile and bringing your joy

906
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: these days? Because we talk heavy.

907
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 2: Besides DOCI put the mother money and my motherfucking ha. Yes,

908
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 2: long as you bitches. What's up? It's do chi bitch Okay. Anyway,

909
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 2: let's people.

910
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: Understand having kids, I can't listen to her in the

911
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,959
Speaker 1: car like I want to, oh to, I'll be making

912
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 1: up errands just to listen to the blast man.

913
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 2: What's gonna be joy? I'm in the middle of books

914
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 2: for and.

915
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: Are you able to travel a lot? Are you gonna

916
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: be coming.

917
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 2: Or I've been doing some traveling. I just came back

918
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 2: from my New York event, and to just have that

919
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 2: kind of home coming, Oh, bring out about it. Yeah.

920
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: So I think being on a book tour is giving

921
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 2: me the most joy right now, because it's so cool

922
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: to just like connect with other authors and connect with

923
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 2: readers and to just be out there meeting so many people.

924
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: When I was in La at Skylight Books, shout out

925
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 2: to Skylight Books. There are a bunch of people in

926
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: the audience who just happened to be in the bookstore

927
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: at the time and then just sat down and listened

928
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 2: for the talk and bought books, and they're like, Hey,

929
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 2: I just rolled up here, but this is really like

930
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 2: so like.

931
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 1: That's I missed you in New York. That's rude.

932
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: Are you in New York? Yes, sick. I thought you

933
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 2: were in Los Angeles. I thought you're on the West sidey.

934
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: I'm giving La vibes. No, I'm too depressed to be

935
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: in LA, clearly.

936
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: But talking openly about depression. Is La? Is it not?

937
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 2: I don't know La culture me either.

938
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: Oh, you're going to be in Atlanta.

939
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 2: I'll be in Atlanta. Sure, Okay, yes, love. I cannot

940
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 2: wait for the Atlanta stop. I cannot wait for the

941
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: Atlanta to stop. Yeah, it would be a nice little homecoming,

942
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 2: but in a different way. But yeah, I think book

943
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 2: tour is giving me joy. It's just so nice to

944
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 2: meet other people and to share the book with other

945
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 2: human beings, because writing a book is you're alone so much.

946
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 2: And so I have my road copy of my book

947
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 2: that people have been writing notes in. My nieces and

948
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: nephews all took a photo with the books. I printed

949
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: that out and that's in the book. I have a

950
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: photo of my agent in the book, so it's like, yeah,

951
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: it's just like a little scrap book. In the first

952
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: chapter of the book, I have this opening scene with

953
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 2: me my physiatrist, doctor Singh, and he's telling me about

954
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 2: the tumor, and so I went to his office and

955
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 2: he's signed a really lovely note for me in his

956
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 2: doctor handwriting, but right above that chapter. And so a

957
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: lot of people want me to read from that chapter.

958
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: So every time I open the book, I see his

959
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 2: handwriting and like those little moments of the tour, just this,

960
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: you know, this has given me joy. It's just so

961
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 2: nice to connect with other human beings, which you know

962
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 2: is the point of the book, you know, how do

963
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 2: we draw each other near and being collusion and being

964
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:31,439
Speaker 2: community with each other?

965
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, well I'm really really damn proud of you,

966
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: and I'm kicking myself that I didn't think to like

967
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: look at your events in your in my mind, the

968
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: book came out this week. The book came out last month,

969
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: so duh.

970
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 2: But two weeks ago, two weeks ago, last last day

971
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 2: of the month, so last month.

972
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I am like I need and thanks for

973
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: being so candid about the experience for you. I feel

974
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: very scene and like I can live to write another day.

975
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: And there is an end to this journey.

976
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 2: It takes the time that it takes, Matt Johnson told me,

977
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 2: So that's how you know it's true.

978
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: I'll quote you when I say that back quote, I'm

979
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: really struggling. This incredible writer. You know Jodyan Burrey. Have

980
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: you read her book?

981
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

982
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be like she told me the best advice.

983
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: It takes the time, it takes, it.

984
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 2: Takes the time it takes. Hashtag mat Johnson so much.

985
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: All right, Branda vischien fam I need you to go

986
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: follow Jodian everywhere. We're going to put her Instagram in

987
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: the show notes. It's at Jody Anne Beery and where else?

988
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 2: What else?

989
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: We got to put a link to the book. We

990
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 1: got to go pick up the book. How else can

991
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: we support you?

992
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 2: Just? You know, so here the book with other people

993
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 2: talk about the book. I have a couple of folks

994
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 2: who come to lit Lounge. They all got the book,

995
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 2: and at lit Lounge they decided to do a little

996
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 2: book club, which I thought was just so cool. It's

997
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: just like, I know, it's like two people. There's like

998
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 2: a couple who knew each other, but the whole group

999
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 2: has never done anything together. And so what I heard

1000
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 2: is that, you know, one person cooked, they ate good food.

1001
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: They had a fire pit and just like talked through

1002
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 2: the book and the conversations that they were having that

1003
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 2: I heard about, were just like, man, this is the point.

1004
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 2: This is the point because they're all sitting around. Yeah

1005
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 2: they have different careers, but some overlap, and they're like, well,

1006
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 2: what do we do? Well? What do we do? And

1007
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, that's that's it. That's the point. Right,

1008
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 2: You're in someone's backyard a fire pit and asking what

1009
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: should we do? Like, that's where it starts. And so

1010
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 2: I want people to have a relationship with the book

1011
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 2: that does not exist online, that exists with other people.

1012
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: I would I would love that even more than a fall.

1013
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: Hell all right, y'all take it to the book club,

1014
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: get the book and then have a conversation about it.

1015
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 2: And somebody needs to cook for y'all. Someone needs to cook.

1016
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: There needs to be food.

1017
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: There, or I go to a restaurant. Whatever you want. Enjoy,

1018
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: be merry, have convos.

1019
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:16,919
Speaker 2: Man.

1020
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm such a pleasure. Thank you for coming.

1021
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 2: Hope to see you here.

1022
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, okay, be a fam Thank you so much

1023
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: for listening to this week's show. I want to shout

1024
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our

1025
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: fearless leader for Idea to launch productions. I want to

1026
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for

1027
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: helping me put the show together. It is not a

1028
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: one person project, as much as I have tried to

1029
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: make it so these past ten years. I need help, y'all,

1030
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: and thank goodness I've been able to put this team

1031
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: around me to support me on this journey and to

1032
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: y'all be a fam. I love you so so so

1033
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: so much. Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign

1034
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: up to the newsletter to get all the latest updates

1035
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: on upcoming episodes, our ten year anniversary celebrations to come,

1036
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: and until next time, talk to you soon via buy

1037
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: Hey ba fam, Let's be real for a second, and

1038
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: y'all know I keep it a book. The job market

1039
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: has been brutal, now not brutal trash, especially for women

1040
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: of color. Over three hundred thousand of us have disappeared

1041
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: from the workforce this year alone, and not by choice,

1042
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages

1043
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: that keep cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate

1044
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: has jumped to over seven percent, while our pay gap

1045
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: continues to widen. I know all of that sounds dire.

1046
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: But here's what I want y'all to know. You do

1047
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: not have to wait for the system to save you.

1048
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: That's exactly why I created the Mandy money Makers Group

1049
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: coaching community. It is a coaching community that is built

1050
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 1: for us by us. Inside the community, we're not just

1051
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: talking about how to negotiate or to how to get

1052
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: the job that you want. It's about finding purpose in

1053
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: your career. It's about finding communities and others, feeling seen,

1054
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: feeling heard, and also having a sounding board and a

1055
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: mirror to reflect your own magic, your own sparkle right

1056
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: back to yourself. In this community, you'll get group coaching

1057
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: led by me, but you also get peer to peer

1058
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: accountability with proven tools and resources that can help you

1059
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: do what we have always done since rise. Even when

1060
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: the odds are stacked against us, despite all the challenges,

1061
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: we will rise. If you're interested in joining the Mandy

1062
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: money Makers community and having that support to bolster you

1063
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 1: and help you tap back into your magic so that

1064
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: you can lead your career with intention and heart and

1065
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us. You

1066
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: can find information in the show notes of today's episodes,

1067
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: or go to MA many mooney dot com slash community.

1068
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: That's Mandy m A n d I money dot com

1069
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: slash community. I would love to see y'all there. Enrollment

1070
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: is open, so please go check out mandymoney dot com

1071
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: slash community today