1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Latino USA. I'm Maria Rosa, dear listener. This week, 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: we're rebroadcasting part two of The Moving Border. It's our 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: award winning series exploring asylum and the somewhat secretive partnership 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: between Mexico and the US. This story eric originally in 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: May of twenty twenty, when border policies were being made 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: under the Trump administration. Things have changed since then, but 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: just how much have they? We're going to be exploring 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: that question later this year as we continue our Moving 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: Border series and delve into border policy under the Biden administration. 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: All of this is part of my new investigative unit 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: called Futuro Nidad in Hosa. If you haven't heard part one, 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: you can catch it on the Latino USA feed. But 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: for now, here's the award winning second part of the 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: Moving Border. So we have just landed in Dabatula and 15 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: it could not be more different than what is. It's Saturday, 16 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: January eleventh, twenty twenty, and I've just landed in a 17 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: small airport in Dabatula, on Mexico's southern border with Guatemala. Literally, 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: we went from the northernmost border in Mexico to the 19 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: southernmost border. We crossed the entire country of Mexico. I 20 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: check my phone, no messages. Inside the airport, I rush 21 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: to baggage claim I'm recording just a case. He's outside. 22 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: I don't see anybody, what I mean. I look at 23 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: every young man I pass, hoping he'll be here waiting 24 00:01:54,280 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: for me. He's nowhere, texts one of the listens as. 25 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: All I was hoping for was that it would be here, 26 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: and he's not. He's just not from NPR and Futuro Media. 27 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: It's Latino USA. I'm Maria no Josa. On today's episode, 28 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: The Moving Border, Part two, the South. In our last episode, 29 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: we reported about how the real wall that Trump has 30 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: built is a paper wall, a wall of policies that 31 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: push asylum seekers out of the US and into Mexico. 32 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: We visited the northern border and met some of the 33 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: migrants stuck waiting for the chance to ask for asylum 34 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: in the US, a place they believe they'll find safety. 35 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: Now I've come to Tapachula on Mexico's southern It's another 36 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: city filled with asylum seekers from all over the world. 37 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: I'm here to find out why so many migrants are 38 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: waiting here. Almost two thousand miles away from the United States. 39 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: And there's another reason. I'm here to meet up with 40 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: a twenty three year old hon Duram migrant named Josue, 41 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: whose story I've been following for a year now. We 42 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: plan to meet up here, but for the last few days, 43 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: Josue hasn't picked up his phone. 44 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to call him right now. I don't even 45 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: know what to say. 46 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: It's a weird feeling, honestly, to be so anxious to 47 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: see him, because I don't really know this kid. I 48 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: met him a year ago in Matamoros when I was 49 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: interviewing migrants for a story about life at the US 50 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: Mexico border. He was my son's age at the time. 51 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: I'm just twenty three, and he was sleeping under a bridge. 52 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: To see him alone in those conditions it got to me. 53 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: We spoke for like maybe two minutes, and I gave 54 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: him my card, just like I usually do with people 55 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: I meet. But this kid, he actually called again and again. 56 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: One of those calls came from a detention center in Texas. 57 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: It was his second attempt to get to the US. 58 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: Josue presented himself and asked for asylum at the border. 59 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: He told officers he feared for his life if he 60 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: was returned to Honduras, that he had been threatened by 61 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: the gangs Jim, even though passed his first credible fear interview. 62 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: Ultimately he was deported back to Honduras anyway. Josue then 63 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: moved back in with his grandmother, the closest thing he 64 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: still has to a parent. His mother died of cancer 65 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: while he was in detention, but he didn't stay in 66 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: Londura's long. Soon he was back on the road north again, 67 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: this time with his grandma in tow. He crossed back 68 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: into Mexico, and last time we spoke he was here 69 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: in Tapachula. 70 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 3: Mare. 71 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: He told me he was petitioning for asylum here, and 72 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: this was the first time I heard about this new 73 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: strategy migrants hoping to reach the United States by first 74 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: applying for asylum in Mexico. And it turns out this 75 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: is increasingly common because traveling to the northern border without 76 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: legal documents has gotten harder and harder since Mexico has 77 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: ramped up its own immigration enforcement. We'll talk more about 78 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: that later. Right now, I'm determined to find Josue after 79 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: being in touch for so long, This was the chance 80 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: for me to finally really hear his story. And though 81 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time in Mexico, this place, 82 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: Tapachula is completely new to me. So I'm going to 83 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: need some help. Outside of the airport, I meet up 84 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: with a local journalist named Benjamin Alfaro. He's going to 85 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: be helping me to report this story. When I mean, Guilana, 86 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: what's up, I'm not seen, Leslie. 87 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: I mean. 88 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: In the car on the way to the hotel, I 89 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: get a first glimpse of Tapachula. Oh my god. The 90 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: humidity is one hundred and ten percent, and it is 91 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: beautiful and sweaty and like in the tropics. And it's 92 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: so green. 93 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 4: Is the mango. 94 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: As we drive past fields of mangoes, plantains, and coffee, 95 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: Mayhamin says, there's a saying here about the fertility of 96 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: this land. Through a seed on the ground, it'll growa 97 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: That's why there have always been so many migrants here, 98 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: he tells me, like Mexican farm workers in the United States. 99 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: For decades, he says, mostly Waatemalans have crossed the border 100 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: to work seasonally in the fields here. In recent years, 101 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: large numbers of migrants heading towards the United States have 102 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: landed in Dapachula. The majority are from Central America, but 103 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: there's also a growing number of people from Haiti, India 104 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: and West Africa. Mexicans like Benghamen, who grew up here 105 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: are for the most part used to people coming and going, 106 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: and Tapachula is not a small town. The official count 107 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: says the city has about three hundred thousand residents, but 108 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: counting migrants, there's probably tens of thousands more. As we 109 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: arrive at my hotel, I asked Bejamen to do me 110 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: a favor and try calling Hosue from his phone totally 111 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: and nothing. So I go down to the hotel restaurant 112 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: to have dinner. But I can't help but think about 113 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: a question. Benhamen asked me. So you just heard me say, 114 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: what what's happened with Hosue? And we're kind of thinking 115 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: that he's just like, it is strange that he disappears 116 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: the day before you're coming, You know, is there a 117 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: potential that he's being kidnapped extorted because he's been in 118 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: communication with someone from the United States. I mean, we 119 00:08:53,960 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: have no idea. It may sound like a stretch, maybe 120 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: it isn't and that's because Josue has already been a 121 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: victim of crime here in Tapatula. It was last year 122 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: after his grandmother had given up on migrating and left 123 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: to go back to Hoduraso. One day, Hosue says, he 124 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: and three other hunter and guys were picked up near 125 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: his shelter by a man who said he had a 126 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: job for them at a ranch. Josuez said he needed 127 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: the money, so he jumped at the chance to work. 128 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: On the way, Hosue says, they were told that actually 129 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: they were being hired to kill someone. It sounds like 130 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: a story straight out of a movie. Josue says he 131 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: was able to jump out of the truck and flee, 132 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: and then he saw the news. 133 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 5: In Vestiga Fiscalia, in front Amiento q jo at Tres 134 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 5: Personas Marta and Tapatula. 135 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: Three men had been found dead inside a truck. Graphic 136 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: photos of men with blood dripping down their faces flashed 137 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: on the screen. Who swe believes the men were the 138 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: other Hondurans he was looking for work with. A month later, 139 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: hosuezas he was robbed while selling doughnuts in the street. 140 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: He filed a police report and also gave a statement 141 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: about what happened the day he jumped out of the truck. 142 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: Shortly after Josuet had to leave the shelter to make 143 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,599 Speaker 1: space for new arrivals. Without legal documents to work, and 144 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: completely alone in Tapachula, he ended up living on the street, 145 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: and that's where he still was. The last time we spoke, 146 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: just a few days ago. The last thing he said 147 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: to me was that he was afraid someone would kill him. 148 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: It is nine twelve on Saturday, January eleventh, and we 149 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: just finished dinner here in Tapachula. All I do is 150 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: I look out into the night and I'm like, where 151 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: is this? Where is this kid? That's all I'm asking myself. 152 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: How did he disappear? And why did he disappear? The 153 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: day before I get here, I try one more time 154 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: and nothing. He's gone. And I'm going to have to 155 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: try and find this guy in a city that I've 156 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: never been to, where there are hundreds and hundreds and 157 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of Central American migrants hundering young men in their 158 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: twenties just like him, And now I've got to find him. 159 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: Coming up mahamen and I go looking for houseway stay 160 00:12:08,640 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: with us, Yes, Hey, we're back. So the next morning, 161 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: Bhamena and I set off to see if we can 162 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: find clues as to Jsuez whereabouts. We visit key spots 163 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: or migrants around Tapachula, which gives me a chance to 164 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: understand what migration looks like here on the southern border. 165 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: So I'm just fascinated because we have now walked. I 166 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: guess we're going to go up these stairs and we're 167 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: going to see the river. But there's like a mural 168 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: painted on these stairs and it says welcome yemnidos to 169 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: baso el Koyote, Welcome to the El Koyote crossing. First 170 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: we go to see the Suchiette River, and that's the 171 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 1: river that separates Mexico from its southern neighbor, Guatemala. So 172 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: there is a legal and a less legal way to 173 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: cross this border. The actual international bridge and official port 174 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: of entry is visible from where I'm standing. It's less 175 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: than a mile down, but this unofficial crossing is the 176 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: more popular one. We watch as people right across the 177 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: river into Mexico on makeshift rafts and on top of 178 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: big inner tubes, like you've got two huge inner tubes, 179 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: You've just got planks of wood. So the most basic 180 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: kind of transportation. They mostly seem to be students and workers. 181 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: Others cross to Mexico to do their shopping. After all, 182 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: there is a Walmart in Tapachula. Here and there, though, 183 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: tired looking young men with backpacks hop on alone and 184 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: in small groups. So one of the things that I'm 185 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: thinking a lot about as I'm standing on this river 186 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: between what the Mala and Mexico is, is this where 187 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: Houswa crossed. Then I see a well dressed older man 188 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: in khakis and a pink polo shirt board a raft 189 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: from the watermal. Inside he's holding a briefcase, and he 190 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: almost seems out of place at this. 191 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 4: So I ma extro so does class. 192 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: His name is Freddy. He's Guatemalan, sixty years old. He 193 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: works in Mexico as a teacher, and says he crosses 194 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: to Tapachula on a raft because it's easier and faster 195 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: than the official crossing. 196 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 4: Bez por kibes tahiri la hinte. 197 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: And you don't have a problem. He's quick to point 198 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: out that no one bothers him because they kind of 199 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: know who the locals are, and he doesn't look like 200 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: a migrant. What before we move on, I ask Freddy 201 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: what he teaches. He says, customs. You're a professor who 202 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: teaches about border crossing and customs, but you're crossing in 203 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: an illegal crossing osa is cistoso biro I. That's just 204 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: how things are here in Dapatula, he tells me. Mexico's 205 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: southern border has always been more relaxed than the one 206 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: up north. Like the customs teacher Freddie, most people who 207 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: live around here don't think much of crossing back and forth, 208 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: legally or not. But recently this border has tightened up. 209 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: That's due in part to the arrival of the Mexican 210 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: National Guard La wardri A Nacunae. The National Guard is 211 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: President Lopez Obrador's new security force, which we mentioned last episode. 212 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: It's the one that was created to help fight crime 213 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: but has been deployed to enforce immigration instead. In January, 214 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: the National Guard news at this crossing point when it 215 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: scuffled with a big caravan making its way from Central America, 216 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: using force on migrants and making mass arrests. 217 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 6: Now, whatever you think of this so called caravan, whether 218 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 6: you see them as refugees or invaders, one thing is 219 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 6: clear tonight. They're in a standoff right now with an 220 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 6: army of Mexican federales, and tensions are running high. 221 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: It was another example of Mexico's president fulfilling his promise 222 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: to the United States to crack down on migration. But 223 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: today at the river, it doesn't really look like the 224 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: National Guard is doing much. For close to an hour, 225 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: we've watched people crossing illegally in rafts across the border 226 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: right in their line of sight. And then a very 227 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: official looking, uniformed man approaches me. 228 00:17:52,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 4: I'm gonna sets. 229 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: He writes my name down in a beat up little 230 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: notebook that he slips right back into his pocket. He 231 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: tells me that his name is Sergeant Rnandez and that 232 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: he's with the National Guard. So I ask him what 233 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: exactly their role here is. He tells me their job 234 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: is to support immigration agents. For the most part. He 235 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: tells me they don't really bother the Guatemalan citizens who 236 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: cross back and forth daily, but they approach others and 237 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: check their idea, looking for Haitians or Hondurance, for example, 238 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 1: people like Josue. 239 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 4: Catamos seem. 240 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: He's quick to tell me that they don't detain migrants, 241 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: they rescue them. He says, they rescue them by turning 242 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: them over to immigration so they can quote learn about 243 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: their options in Mexico. So where do these rescued migrants go? 244 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 4: And on the complex sea commercial. 245 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: They're taken to a place where they can eat and rest. 246 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: He says, it's called Sigrono. Now, if you're imagining that 247 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: Sigroventuno is a shelter, you couldn't be more wrong. It's 248 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: actually a huge immigrant detention center here in Tapachula. We 249 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: decide to head there. Next on our way, we come 250 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: across an immigration checkpoint, much like the ones the Border 251 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: Patrol sets up near the border in the United States. Okay, 252 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: so we're driving through a checkpoint. There is on the 253 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: left side, uh pickup truck with lights flashing. There is 254 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: a but we're not stopped. They wave us through behind 255 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: though a van is pulled over. Bighamen says, these random 256 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: militarized roadblocks have been popping up everywhere in recent years, 257 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: and so has the military with their pickups, masked soldiers 258 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: and automatic weapons. And they're not just here in Tapachula. 259 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: They're on all the major roads leading out of the 260 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: city and they pop in and out along popular routes 261 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: for migrants all the way to the northern border, including 262 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: railroad tracks and bus stations. In fact, advocates say it's 263 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: so hard now for asylum seekers to get to the 264 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: US border without being detained by some Mexican authority that 265 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: many have been stuck here in Tapachula hoping to get 266 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: some kind of legal status that will make it easier 267 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: to travel through the country. For years, Mexico mostly turned 268 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: a blind eye to migrants transiting north, But now with 269 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: large caravans of migrants from Central America arriving and the 270 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: news cameras that followed, pressure to stop the flow was increasing. 271 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 7: Thousands of migrants marching north through Mexico hoping to reach 272 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 7: the US. 273 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 8: President Trump calling it a quote national emergency, vowing to 274 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 8: send in the US military. 275 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: In January of twenty nineteen, Mexico rolled out a humanitarian visa. 276 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: The visa basically provided temporary legal status for one year, 277 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: allowing migrants to work and more importantly, travel legally. Mexico 278 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: shutting down a fast track program for temporary asylum allowing 279 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: migrants to stay in Mexico, but so many people applied 280 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: for the humanitarian visa that the Mexican government ended the 281 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: program in less than two weeks. When they brought it 282 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: back just a couple of months later, the requirements were 283 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: tightened so much it was now nearly impossible to get 284 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: one approved. So the other option was to apply for 285 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: asylum in Mexico, which more than seventy people did last year. 286 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: Most of those applications have been filed here in Tapachula. 287 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: Some of these applicants will choose to settle in Mexico 288 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: they realize that getting into the US is just too 289 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: hard now, But many seem to be applying with the 290 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: hope that once they have legal status, they can use 291 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: it to travel safely and make it to the US border, 292 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: and that's what Josuer was doing here last time we spoke. 293 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: The local refugee office is overwhelmed with applications right now. 294 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: More than half of all cases have been pending for 295 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: a year. In the time that asylum seekers wait for 296 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: a resolution to their case, they're not allowed to leave Tapachula. 297 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: They have to check in weekly or bi weekly to 298 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: keep their cases active, and in many cases they're sent 299 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: for some period of time to Sigroveduno, Tapachula's sprawling immigrant 300 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: detas center. They wouldn't let us in to see the facility. 301 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: So we're here now climbing to get a better view 302 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: from a nearby hill that overlooks it. Si La Mayti, 303 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, is the largest immigrant detention center in Mexico. 304 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: It's where the National Guard sergeant told me that they 305 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: send rescued migrants. From here, I see a large prison yard. Wow, 306 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: look how big it is. All you really see from here? 307 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 7: Are you know? 308 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: The roof coverings long white. All I'm seeing is like 309 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: I think a line of people. You know, if you 310 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: didn't know any better, you would say, oh, well, it's 311 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: a school with a very big yard. But then you 312 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: realize that there's a watchtower and that means that they 313 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: are watching to make sure that nobody gets out. And 314 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: there's a huge wall that goes all around it, so 315 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: you clearly cannot climb. 316 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 9: Outnovcintosa Santa Migrantes much tempo I photo, Sibiowski said on 317 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 9: Pocomaster's meeting Canestale Domuro and. 318 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: On the San Behamen tells me the detention center is 319 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: so overcrowded. It's supposed to house about nine hundred people, 320 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: but up to two thousand have been crammed together. He says, 321 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: that recently, migrants leaked photos of people sleeping in the bathrooms, 322 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: one on top of another. In April of twenty nineteen, 323 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: more than a thousand migrants, including families with children, broke 324 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: out of Sigloventuno after a dispute over lack of food, 325 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: sanitation and overcrowding. By the way. We reached out to 326 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: President Lopez Obrador's office as well as to other senior 327 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: members of his administration for comment our requests. We're all denied. 328 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 2: So far. 329 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: I've seen the outskirts of Tapatula, but now we're finally 330 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: heading into the city. I want to search for Housua 331 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: in the central Plaza, which is a place I knew 332 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: he used to go to a lot at the plaza. 333 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: I'm surprised to see just how diverse Tapatula is. It's 334 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: buzzing with live music and street vendors of all kinds. 335 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: So we are in the plaza, the central Plaza. There's 336 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: a lot of activity at Sunday afternoon, which is when 337 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: everybody comes to the plaza to get your shoes shine, 338 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: to stay with your girlfriend, to have a cup of 339 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: coffee or a drink, and there is some football game 340 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: that is happening. I don't know anything about football, but 341 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 1: there's a football game that's going on, so we are 342 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: here to look and see what's going on. I meet 343 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: a man from Haiti who approached me when he saw 344 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: I had a microphone. He told me that he's been 345 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: duck here for months waiting for asylum, and the weight, 346 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: he says, is far from easy. He says there are 347 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: many Haitians here, families with four or five kids, and 348 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: the parents can't work and don't have money for food 349 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: or diapers. He's been here for five months, but he 350 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: still doesn't have a work per me, so he's selling 351 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: cold bottles of water in the plaza to support his family. Okakia, 352 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: there's nothing for him here in Tapachula. He tells me 353 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: he's trying to get to Tijuana. There he hopes his 354 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: family in the US will be able to help him 355 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: pay for a koyote to try and smuggle him across 356 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: the border. Before I leave, I take out my phone 357 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: and pull up a photo of Hosue and ask him 358 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: if he's seen him to us mis sta personata. 359 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 10: Persona noet I moved okay different in a plaza. 360 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: He says, there are a lot of guys who could 361 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: look like him. Here In the end, I don't get anywhere. 362 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: Later on I stopped by Albergue el Buen Pastor. It's 363 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: a shelter that I know Oswell lived in for a while. 364 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: We've been following the case of a young man for 365 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: many months now, and he was here, and I want 366 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: to know if you recognize him. It is Tjauki ask him, 367 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: can you tell me what you know about him? Qua. 368 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: I don't find any clues as to his whereabouts here, 369 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: but I do meet sister Olga, who says she remembers 370 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: Usue but hasn't seen him in a while. She's been 371 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: running this house for migrants for decades. Sister Orga says 372 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: she used to have an army of volunteers. Now no 373 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: one really shows up to help anymore. 374 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 11: OI for oil Giano miramos is a hinte particular you 375 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 11: Mura's sister Mui inumano gio. 376 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: Migrantis. She says Tapachula is becoming more racist and inhumane, 377 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: that everybody complains about wanting migrants gone, and it's not 378 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: just here. The caravans used to be greeted all over 379 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: Mexico by well wishers handing out medicine, food and water, 380 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: but those days have passed. 381 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 8: This is what an anti migrant protest looks like in Mexico. 382 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 8: There's anger and waving the Mexican flags and signs like 383 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 8: this one, which translates to no to the invasion. 384 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: Sister Orga says, when migrants were just passing through here, 385 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: maybe it was easier to be more compassionate. But now, 386 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: she says, the asylum process keeps people stuck here, so 387 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: they're in the blastas they're lined up outside government buildings, 388 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: they're sleeping in the streets. And Tapatula is in Mexico's 389 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: poorest state, Chiapas. Resources here are limited and migrants are 390 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: an easy target for people to take out their frustrations. Now, 391 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: without helping hands to make ends meet at the shelter, 392 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: Sister Orga has had to come up with a new 393 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: plans to support the shelter and themselves. The migrants take 394 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: part in a donut baking and selling operation. For now, 395 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: it's just enough to scrape by the next morning, at breakfast, 396 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: my phone rings. It's a video call finally from Jussue 397 00:30:13,720 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: that's coming up. Stay with us, notus, Okay, we're back 398 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: at long last I received a video call from Hostue. 399 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: It's the first time I'm seeing his face since we 400 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: met a year ago in Too Tempo Devisto. 401 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 2: There get the. 402 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: Devisto, and after everything, it turns out he's not in 403 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: Tapachula at all. He's back home in Onduras. Swet flips 404 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: the camera on his phone and shows me he's using 405 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: the Wi Fi at a cafe in Tea, the capital 406 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: Huswet tells me he left Tapachula the day before I arrived, 407 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: that some guys had beat him up in the market, 408 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: and that he says, he couldn't take it anymore. He 409 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: was scared, always thinking that someone was right over his shoulder, 410 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: coming to punish him for finding that police report after 411 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: he jumped out of that truck, or that the gangs 412 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: he ran away from in Honduras would follow him here 413 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: to Tapachula. After all, it's really close, and there were 414 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: Central American gang tags on the walls all around town 415 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: that I saw myself. In the end, Joswuet took off 416 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: back to hondudas the gangs were there too, but at 417 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: least there he could stay with his grandmother instead of 418 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: sleeping on the streets. But Mexican law says he must 419 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: be present for in person checkins with immigration while his 420 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: asylum petition is pending. So when Josuet went to the 421 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: asylum agency to let them know he was leaving, that 422 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: meant his asylum case in Mexico would be closed. Three 423 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: months waiting in Dapachula was for nothing. Later that day, 424 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: I have a chance to meet with Alma Marquez. She's 425 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: the head of the refugee agency here in Tapachula. It's 426 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: called GOMAR. I want to know what kind of protections 427 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: the Mexican government is supposed to offer to someone like Cosue. 428 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: You're a refugee, You're leaving your home country and the 429 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: place that is supposed to be giving you safe haven 430 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: isn't able to protect you. Do you think those people 431 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,959 Speaker 1: should continue to apply for refugee status in Mexico if 432 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: they've been a victim of a crime in Mexico, or really, 433 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: should they then be by international law allowed to apply 434 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: to another country. 435 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 12: Sits victim mexicopus thendras A Toncia. 436 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: Respond Alma says anyone who is a victim should just 437 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: go to the police. Plus, she says there's a process 438 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: to protect victims of crime. If o Sue had told 439 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: them before he left to Hondudas that he was afraid 440 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: he might have been able to be transferred out of Tapatula. 441 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: And then in the middle of speaking with Alma, I 442 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: get a call from Hosue. Now is calling? Well, actually 443 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: hold on a second, Osue. We're talking about your case. 444 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 1: When you came to close your case, did you tell 445 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: comarar why you were leaving? As he did tell a 446 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: that his grandmother was worried about him because of what happened, 447 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: and he says he showed the official the report that 448 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: he had made with the police. He says, no one 449 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: ever mentioned the possibility of moving him somewhere safe elsewhere 450 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: in Mexico like that, Like what do you recommend to 451 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: a young He's like so many other Hunduran men right 452 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: his life is under threat. He's afraid all the time. 453 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: He has people who have died all around him. He 454 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: feels that he could be killed at any moment. 455 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 12: We have to check the case because I cannot give 456 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 12: you right now my point of view of the case. 457 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: And then Alma ads in Spanish. 458 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 12: Kinsi's expando comparison as who's to a Central America. Well, 459 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 12: the sir los Conosco. 460 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: I've been doing this for fifteen years, she says, dealing 461 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: with Central Americans. I know them well. You can't get 462 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: stuck on one case. In the end, Josue may not 463 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: have used the right words to trigger special protections, and 464 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: it's hard to believe asylum policy sometimes comes down to 465 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: just that words. 466 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 12: But even if he had, porque porque ca cons Andramosel 467 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 12: says and Tasinko percentes loses and Taysinko POI. 468 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: Rica doesn't, Almaz, sixty five percent of all asylum seekers 469 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: are here in Tapachula. They could all say they want 470 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: to move to a different city, and it's not like 471 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: she can move them all. The larger problem, Alma Sayz, 472 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: is Mexico's asylum system is sorely underfunded and understaffed. While 473 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: the agency's budget was doubled from the year before, it's 474 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: just a little over two million dollars for twenty twenty, 475 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: and most of their financial support is coming from outside 476 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: of Mexico. And we'll get into that a bit more later. 477 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: By Mexican law, asylum claims are supposed to be resolved 478 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: in fifty five days, not over a year. Last year, 479 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: the agency only ended up granting refugee status to less 480 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: than two thousand people from Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, 481 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: even though more than seventy thousand applications were submitted in total. 482 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: If we zoom out for a second, the recent hoswif 483 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: found himself seeking asylum here in Tapachula in the first place, 484 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: instead of the United States, where he hoped to eventually 485 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: make it is because Mexico has been developing itself as 486 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: an asylum destination, you could say, an alternative to the US. 487 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: And that's in part because Mexico is getting help and 488 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: encouragement to do this both from the United States and 489 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: from the UNHCR that's short for United Nations High Commissioner 490 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: for Refugees. We made our way to their office in Tapachula. Okay, 491 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: so we are standing. We're kind of in a residential 492 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: neighborhood in Tapachula, so far away from downtown, corner building 493 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: here with high security. There's a camera out front. There's 494 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: some you know, razor not razor wire, but there's wiring 495 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: around and it says in all white and it says 496 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: UNHCR acn are la Cincia del the United Nations Agency 497 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 1: for refugees. There are no lines here for asylum seekers 498 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: waiting outside. It almost feels like this place is out 499 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: of their reach now. The UNHCR was created after or 500 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: World War two to make sure that what happened then 501 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: would never happen again. Jews who tried to escape the 502 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: Holocaust were denied entry to almost every country in the world. 503 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,320 Speaker 1: Many were famously turned back, only to meet their deaths. 504 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: So this international agency's mission is to protect refugees and 505 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: asylum seekers. Today in Mexico, it works with the government 506 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: to come up with systems to process and admit asylum seekers, 507 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: and they have a sixty million dollar budget this year 508 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: to contribute to Mexico's efforts. Today, we're here to meet 509 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: with Jioanni Lipperty. He's the deputy representative with u NHCR 510 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: in Mexico. I told him the details of Hoswuez's case 511 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: to get his take on why hoswd didn't receive any 512 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: kind of special protection. 513 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 10: This looks like one of the real and in cases 514 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 10: in which the person that you're describing all the reason 515 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 10: and the right to have an alternative to move somewhere else. 516 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,800 Speaker 10: In that sense, I think that it's a problem to 517 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 10: say that it did somehow fall into the cracks, and 518 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 10: unfortunately probably is. 519 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 3: Not the only one. 520 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: Giovanni says, while they've made progress, there's still a long 521 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: way to go in getting the asylum system to work 522 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: the way it should. I wanted to know more broadly 523 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: why you and HDR was here in Mexico. 524 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 3: Specifically, each and every country should be a country where 525 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 3: there are opportunities for people that are need of international protection. 526 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 3: I think that Mexico is today one of the countries 527 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 3: that could offer opportunities and possibility for integration of refugees 528 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 3: much better than many many other countries, that would put 529 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 3: as the top developed country in the world. The fact that. 530 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 10: Employment there's plenty of opportunity, there are plenty of opportunities. 531 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: The migrants we spoke to in Dapachula might disagree about 532 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: that notion of plenty of opportunity in Mexico for them. 533 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: Giovanni says, the UN is just trying to help, But 534 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: there's a question of whether diverting migrants for making it 535 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: to the United States by giving them a chance to 536 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 1: stay in Mexico is actually helping them. Yes, Mexico is 537 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,760 Speaker 1: a larger and more prosperous country than the Central American nations, 538 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: but it suffers from many of the same issues around 539 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: safety as the places migrants are escaping from. Take Poswest case. 540 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: At various points he was homeless, unable to work, hungary, 541 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: and nearly killed. Here is this what safety looks like 542 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: for him? And it turns out there's a word for 543 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: what's happening here in Mexico because it's part of a 544 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: global trend called externalization. 545 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 13: Externalization where states are gradually pushing their boarders outwards, are 546 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 13: making it increasingly impossible for refugees and asylum seekers to 547 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 13: even reach the territory of the world's most prosperous states. 548 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 1: This is Jeff Crisp. We reached him in London. He 549 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: spent many years as a higher up at the UNHCR. 550 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: Since leaving, he's been highly critical of the organization and externalization, 551 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: he says. 552 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 14: And this is a global trend in the industrialized world. 553 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 14: It's a policy being pursued by the United States, by 554 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 14: the European Union, and by Australia. 555 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: It's also happening, for example, in Libya, where the European 556 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,879 Speaker 1: Union is funding the local government to intercept migrants at sea. 557 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: And put them into tens in dismal conditions. And in Australia, 558 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: where asylum seekers have been sent to camps on remote 559 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: Pacific islands, it means migrants are being corralled into poorer 560 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: countries where they aren't necessarily better off than where they started. 561 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,280 Speaker 1: And Jeff says the UNHCR is in a tough position 562 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: to do anything about it, in part because of the 563 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: source of its money. 564 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 14: It's become increasingly constrained in recent years as governments have 565 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 14: pursued more restrictive refugee and asylum policies. And one of 566 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 14: my arguments has been recently that UNHR is very worried 567 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 14: about losing US support, and the US provides around forty 568 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 14: percent of the organization's budget. Partly, I would argue, because 569 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 14: UNAC and so heavily on the US for its funding, 570 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,879 Speaker 14: it's been very wary, in my opinion, of actually going 571 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 14: out in public and criticizing the policy is pursued by 572 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 14: Donald Trump. 573 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: It's the first week of March Down. I'm back in 574 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: New York City and I get a call from Jusue. 575 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: I can't believe what he tells me. He's decided to 576 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,280 Speaker 1: go back to Mexico. He's leaving in just a few days. 577 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,319 Speaker 1: He's headed back to Tabachula, and then right before he's 578 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: about to make the trip, w JOE. 579 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 5: Has been assessing this outbreak around the clock, and we're 580 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:09,240 Speaker 5: deeply concerned. We have therefore made the assessment that COVID 581 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 5: nineteen can be characterized as a pandemic. 582 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,240 Speaker 1: Mexico and Whatatemla, like many other countries around the world, 583 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: announced they might close their borders due to the coronavirus pandemic, 584 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: but virus or not. On the second week of March 585 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: oswe hitchhide back to Tapachula, making it out of Gatemala 586 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,840 Speaker 1: just before it closed its borders. Once in Tapachula, Oe 587 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: when and got a meeting at Comar, the refugee office. 588 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: He records it on his phone. 589 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 2: Uko. 590 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,799 Speaker 1: He says he wants to reopen his case, but they 591 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,080 Speaker 1: tell him bad news. They say that the document and 592 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,360 Speaker 1: he signed when he left in January means he abandoned 593 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,759 Speaker 1: his case and that if he wants to apply for 594 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: asylum he needs to start over the process. They say 595 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: could take another year. Another year of waiting in Tapachula. Yeah, 596 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 1: I know, losent Hosue says his desperation is growing. With 597 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 1: lockdowns in place, there's no work and that means no food. 598 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 6: That are you not? 599 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: Sometimes he has to skip meals and he's on the 600 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: verge of being homeless again. And many years that the 601 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 1: refugee office is going to be closed through June, that 602 00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: weight he was dreading it keeps on extending. Gomar is closed, 603 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,920 Speaker 1: so his paperwork just sits there, much like he does waiting. 604 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: How long do you think you'll stay in Mexico? Oh no, quadranos, 605 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 1: he says. Now he's thinking he'll ultimately stay in Mexico 606 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: for a while, maybe four years or less if possible, 607 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: if he can get to the United States, where he 608 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:35,880 Speaker 1: really wants to be. Kisignificat is yo kiros the geant 609 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: significas parati. 610 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 2: Yi. 611 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: I asked Josue what does getting to the United States 612 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: mean to him, and he says a chance to do 613 00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: better in life. Josue has now made four attempts to 614 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: make it to the United States and spent years of 615 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: his life all to end up here in Tapachula with 616 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 1: nothing to show for it. He's happy to be alive, 617 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: is about all he can say. Just recently, I get 618 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: another message from jsue. He's a little bit desperate. He 619 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: tells me he's feeling sick with a high fever, cough 620 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: and body aches, and he can't find any medical help. 621 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: He's wondering if maybe it's the coronavirus, but after all, 622 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,720 Speaker 1: he's gone through a deadly virus is just another addition 623 00:48:51,440 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: to his long list of fears. Our thanks to Julieta 624 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 1: Martinelli for producing that story with me. The Moving Border 625 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,360 Speaker 1: series was produced in partnership with the Pulitzer Center, with 626 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,040 Speaker 1: additional support provided by the Ford Foundation. The series was 627 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,800 Speaker 1: edited by Marlon Bishop. The executive producer is Diane Silvester. 628 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: That's it for today, Let New USA is produced by 629 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: Mike Sargent, Julieta Martinelli, Victoria Strada, Patricia Ulvan, Gini montalbo 630 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,399 Speaker 1: Alejandra Salasad Rinaldo, LEANOZ Junior and Julia Rocha, with help 631 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: from Raoul Bedez. Were edited by Andrea Lopez Russado and 632 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: Marta Martinez. Our editorial director is Julio Ricardorella. Our engineers 633 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,880 Speaker 1: are stuffing the bow Julia Russo and Leah Shaw Damaran, 634 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,120 Speaker 1: with help this week from Gabrielle Bayaz and jj Carubin. 635 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: Our digital editor is DUIs Duna. Our New York Women's 636 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,080 Speaker 1: Foundation IGNIT fellow is Mari es Kinka. Our intern is 637 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,840 Speaker 1: Oscar de Leon. Our theme music was composed by Zaniel Robinos. 638 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:18,920 Speaker 1: If you like the music you heard on this episode, 639 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,840 Speaker 1: stop by Latinousa dot org and check out our weekly 640 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,360 Speaker 1: Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer Marie jo Josa. 641 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,279 Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode, and in the 642 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: meantime find us on social media and I loos BeO hi. 643 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,400 Speaker 7: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 644 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,000 Speaker 7: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide, 645 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 7: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and funding 646 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,680 Speaker 7: for Latino USA is Coverage of a culture of Health 647 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,080 Speaker 7: is made possible in part by a grant from the 648 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:55,760 Speaker 7: Robert Wood Johnson Foundation