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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

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Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five.

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Speaker 2: Or she had us an email at trust Me pod

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Speaker 2: at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Trust Me, trust Me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 4: I've never lived.

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Speaker 3: To you, I never have a live.

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Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 1: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about colts, extreme

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Speaker 1: belief and the abuse of power from two weeklings who've

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Speaker 1: actually experienced it. I am Lola.

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Speaker 5: Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: Clearly I forgot I was a weakling for a moment there.

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Speaker 1: This week, our guest is a very non weekling, Tara Newall.

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Speaker 1: She is a life coach, an animal lover, and survivor

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Speaker 1: of the attack by the now infamous Dirty John. This week,

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Speaker 1: she's going to tell us about how her mom, Debbie,

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Speaker 1: started seeing a man from a dating app who claimed to.

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Speaker 5: Be a doctor.

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Speaker 1: Was always wearing scrubs for some reason, and some of

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Speaker 1: the weird behaviors seeing gauged in that set off everyone's flags,

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Speaker 1: and how he love bombed her mom.

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Speaker 2: We'll also get into the Thanksgiving confrontation where things started

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Speaker 2: to get really uncomfortable with the private investigator her sister

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Speaker 2: hired discovered, and we'll discuss gray rack, a method of

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Speaker 2: communicating with narcissists.

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Speaker 1: It's a very important one to know, might I add.

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Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, I'm glad to know it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And next week we will get into the knife

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Speaker 1: attack that she survived that also ended John's life. Tara

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Speaker 1: is a badass, you guys. I know that badass is,

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Speaker 1: like you know, sometimes it's a term that basic bitches used.

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Speaker 1: But I'm gonna go ahead and say she is a badass.

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Speaker 5: Good shit. I agree, she certainly is. Should I do

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Speaker 5: my culdiest thing of the day.

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Speaker 1: Give me the coldest thing of any period of time?

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Speaker 5: Really? Okay, So you kind of already know this story.

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Speaker 2: I started telling it to you before, but I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna break it down really quick again.

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Speaker 5: My friend was dating a guy he turned out.

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Speaker 2: To be, as sometimes they are in Los Angeles, a

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Speaker 2: certified lunatique narcissist, crazy person. So he told her when

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Speaker 2: they broke up, Oh, one of your girlfriends DMed me

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Speaker 2: she slid into my DMS just so you know. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, that didn't happen. I know it didn't

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Speaker 2: happen because I know your friends and we wouldn't do that.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to catch a narcissist and a lie.

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Speaker 5: So I like, got hype on it.

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Speaker 2: Not a smart idea, okay, because they won't stop.

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Speaker 5: Yah.

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Speaker 2: So what happened was he was like, oh my gosh, okay,

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Speaker 2: well the person it was I actually blocked and I

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Speaker 2: forgot their name, so I can't tell you who it is.

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Speaker 1: And we're like, well, of course, why don't you go

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Speaker 1: to your block list?

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Speaker 2: No, it doesn't work that way. Blah blah blah blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Oh didn't you say that? He said he blocked so

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Speaker 1: many people.

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Speaker 5: She's had to block so many women who message.

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Speaker 1: Him because people just constantly are trying to hi, come

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Speaker 1: fuck me, Oh my god please.

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Speaker 5: So I was just like, wow, this is really interesting.

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Speaker 2: You're like, no matter what evidence you have, they're never

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Speaker 2: gonna say they're wrong, right Yo.

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Speaker 1: No, that's the thing. That's why you can't engage with them,

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: So that's what gray rocking is all about. You guys,

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Speaker 2: just gray rocket, I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 5: I think about this man all the time. Now.

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Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with.

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Speaker 1: You do Yeah, because you want to take it. You

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Speaker 1: want to like prove that he's wrong.

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Speaker 2: I want to prove to him that he is wrong,

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Speaker 2: because I truly think he thinks one of her friend's message,

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Speaker 2: it's just busy.

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Speaker 1: You think he thinks so. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that he knows no, but I think

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Speaker 2: that he's one of those people who emotionally got himself

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Speaker 2: so worked up that he really thinks that he's right.

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Speaker 1: Mm. Yeah. Man. It's like, even if you get them

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Speaker 1: to somehow admit that they did the thing, there will

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Speaker 1: be a justification for it, and it will be someone

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Speaker 1: else's fault.

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Speaker 5: It will never end.

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Speaker 1: There's just no way to possibly engage with someone who's

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Speaker 1: like that. They're not living in reality. Their goal is

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Speaker 1: not to like meet in reality like yours is. Their

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Speaker 1: goal is to you know, have power of view, which

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Speaker 1: we discussed later.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I'm not like super into reality or anything,

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Speaker 2: but some sort of basis of ground level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it would be great.

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Speaker 4: What about you?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna preface this by saying I think that wokeness,

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Speaker 1: to use that term is like overall net positive, a

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Speaker 1: constructive thing has moved us forward as a society. We

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Speaker 1: need to be aware of all the various kinds of microaggressions.

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Speaker 1: We need to be aware of rape culture. We need

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Speaker 1: to be aware of all the various ways in which

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Speaker 1: whiteness is prioritized, and straightness and sisness and all those

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Speaker 1: things net positive very very important. However, I do observe

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Speaker 1: from time to time that in my own life there

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Speaker 1: are people and there are situations in which I start

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Speaker 1: to feel like I shouldn't talk because if I make

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Speaker 1: a mistake, then I will be turned on. My understanding

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Speaker 1: of social justice is that we want to bring people

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Speaker 1: into our perspective. We want to like recruit other you know,

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Speaker 1: white people or straight people or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 1: The goal is to educate kindly and to be like

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Speaker 1: and to hear what their perspective is, and like offer

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Speaker 1: an alternative perspective and be like, well, the reason why

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Speaker 1: that might not be useful is actually because someone was

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Speaker 1: hurt by that. Like, there are ways to approach it

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Speaker 1: that are helpful and constructive, and then there are ways

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Speaker 1: to approach it that get really culty where it's it

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Speaker 1: does become about purity, And the reason that it's bothering

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Speaker 1: me so much this week is because there are certain

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Speaker 1: people who I have observed make mistakes that in the

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Speaker 1: wrong place at the wrong time, like could theoretically get

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Speaker 1: them canceled, which obviously I would never do. I have

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Speaker 1: no interest in doing that. I think that's a terrible

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Speaker 1: thing to do, unless it's something egregious, you know, sexual

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Speaker 1: assault or something. But they kind of casting the first

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Speaker 1: stone quite a bit, just being like hypercritical of other

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Speaker 1: people's mistakes when I know for a fact they have

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Speaker 1: made similar mistakes in their own lives. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what about extending like a modicum of basic human understanding

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Speaker 1: that like sometimes shit slips out of our mouth and

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Speaker 1: it's the wrong thing, We said the wrong thing and

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Speaker 1: it was messed up, But that's not a reflection of

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Speaker 1: our inherent character.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think it goes back to that thing you chose

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Speaker 2: me did the Amanda Knox interview, you know, thinking.

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Speaker 5: Well, they did that because they're a rude, awful person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I did it because I was really tired and hungry

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Speaker 2: and hunt and sucks exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's called the fundamental attribution error.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think about that a lot.

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Speaker 1: I do too. I do too, And most people, I mean,

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Speaker 1: anyone who listen to this show knows I think this

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Speaker 1: by now. But like most people are, like, we are

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Speaker 1: a product of a combination of our genetics in our environments, right,

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Speaker 1: and the environments that we've been in will largely dictate

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Speaker 1: the things that we believe. But more than that, like,

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Speaker 1: sometimes as a fucking podcast host who thankfully has an editor,

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Speaker 1: I can say, like sometimes shit comes out wrong, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: you say that the wrong way. You're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I did not mean to see to say that. Take

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Speaker 1: that out. That sounds horrible.

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Speaker 2: When they were trying to do something I don't remember,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, so you're making a new race

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Speaker 2: of people and he was like absolutely no, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, delete a race.

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Speaker 5: Take back. I didn't mean it like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like things just come out of your mouth when

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Speaker 1: you're like to yeah, yeah, when like when you're like, literally,

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Speaker 1: that's not what I meant, Like, it's just it's the

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Speaker 1: wrong word or it was the wrong It just came

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Speaker 1: out wrong. The fact that there's so little empathy being

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Speaker 1: extended toward other people really makes me feel like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is an environment that doesn't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: self awareness, right, and doesn't have a lot of empathy,

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Speaker 1: or at least it's very tunnel vision empathy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's still so new, right, and.

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Speaker 1: It does worry me because I see how people, you know,

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Speaker 1: who average people react to that, and I like I'm like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: like that's not that's not how it is. It's I

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Speaker 1: promise you, this is a good thing. I promise you

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Speaker 1: this is This is like overall, the thing that we

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Speaker 1: all want is like progress, equality and fucking everyone to

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Speaker 1: be able to eat and get good health care and

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Speaker 1: get an education. Like, I promise you this is a

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Speaker 1: good thing. But when they're exposed to that version of it,

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Speaker 1: it starts to turn people off. And I don't know, man,

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Speaker 1: reading people's history of the United States and stuff, I

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Speaker 1: feel like just my biggest takeaway from that book is

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Speaker 1: like we need people power, Like we need people to

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Speaker 1: enact any kind of political change. What you need is coalition.

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Speaker 1: You need to bring people together. And so like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's annoying to have to like think about the way

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Speaker 1: that you say things, and people should be interograting themselves,

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Speaker 1: but humans are humans, and the fact is we respond

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Speaker 1: to messaging. That is why marketing is a thing. Like

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Speaker 1: the way that something is presented to us impacts the

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Speaker 1: way that we receive it. That is, it's basic psychology.

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Speaker 1: Like depending on whether you put the positive or the

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Speaker 1: negative thing first in the sentence, like that changes the

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Speaker 1: way that that sentence is perceived. This is just how

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Speaker 1: it works. I wish it wasn't so. I wish people

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Speaker 1: were self aware enough to like interrogate their own defensiveness,

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Speaker 1: but not because they're fucking human and most people don't

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Speaker 1: have time to be thinking about that.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a certain situation in mind? Is there

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Speaker 2: somebody in the public eye that we can kind of

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Speaker 2: know what you mean?

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Speaker 5: Or is this more private?

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Speaker 1: No, No, it's more it's just sort of an overall

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Speaker 1: pattern thing.

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Speaker 3: And it is.

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Speaker 1: But it is a lot of like jumping on, jumping

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Speaker 1: on celebrity hate bandwagons and listen, rich people whatever, we

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Speaker 1: don't like. I'm not trying to side with rich people

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Speaker 1: by any means, but I do think that there's a

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Speaker 1: level of hypocrisy that concerns me right and then makes

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Speaker 1: in turn makes me afraid because I'm like, well, if

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Speaker 1: you're not even aware that you yourself do the same thing,

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Speaker 1: then you're certainly not going to extend me empathy if

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Speaker 1: I make mistake. And that is not a culture that

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Speaker 1: fosters growth. And that is what I as a person

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Speaker 1: am interested in personally and also societally, and I do

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Speaker 1: not like that version of it, in my opinion, is

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Speaker 1: not growth. I'm very into I'm a big fan of

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Speaker 1: age Marie Brown. If anyone doesn't know who she is,

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Speaker 1: you wrote a book called We Will Not Cancel Us.

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Speaker 1: When you look into like police abolition, prison abolition, like

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Speaker 1: these frameworks, these political frameworks really do emphasize understanding why

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Speaker 1: people are behaving the way that they are and fixing

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Speaker 1: those societally as a whole, so that we don't have

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Speaker 1: to rely on punishment and imputative justice, either within prisons

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Speaker 1: or within our own lives. Like it is inherently a

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Speaker 1: forgiveness focused way of viewing the world. And to me,

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Speaker 1: there is an inherent disconnect between saying like we don't

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Speaker 1: want the police, we don't want prisons, and saying you're

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Speaker 1: bad because you said a word wrong right, But those

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Speaker 1: to me are inherently incompatible, and it's that incompatibility that

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Speaker 1: frustrates me because I'm like, do you do you actually

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Speaker 1: want change or do you just want to position yourself

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Speaker 1: as someone who knows what's up and someone who's like

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Speaker 1: on the good team or whatever, because to me sometimes

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Speaker 1: it can seem like the latter, right, you know? Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, that like it was the thing I had

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Speaker 1: a hard time even really talking about for a long

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Speaker 1: time because I was like, I'm scared that if I

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Speaker 1: say that, I think canceling people can backfire if we

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Speaker 1: do it too much. I was like scared that that would,

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Speaker 1: you know, get me canceled.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when I saw that all of the members

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Speaker 2: of the Black Lives Matter Board and all of the

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Speaker 2: members of the Me Too movement have now been canceled,

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Speaker 2: I was like, I give up.

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Speaker 5: I will be canceled. Like let's yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I also want to add one more thing and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to shout out my mom here, because in

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Speaker 1: addition to being an incredible cult survivor and abuse survivor

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Speaker 1: who's doing great work with the FLDS and so many

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Speaker 1: different things, she also has her PhD in media psychology,

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Speaker 1: and what she focused on in her work was media trauma.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that she discusses in her dissertation,

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Speaker 1: which is amazing, is that basically, like social humiliation is

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Speaker 1: more painful than in the long term than physical pain. Sure,

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Speaker 1: because we are wired to want to be in the group.

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Speaker 1: We are wired because if we you know, evolutionarily speaking,

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Speaker 1: we're kicked out of the group, that would mean we

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Speaker 1: would not survive. So when we are kicked out of

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Speaker 1: our group, even if it's just on the internet or whatever,

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Speaker 1: we are hardwired for that to feel like panic, panic, panic, panic,

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Speaker 1: life is over, I'm going to die. There is some

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Speaker 1: great literature now on how people become suicidal after they're

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Speaker 1: publicly shamed. People like it is a very very serious,

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Speaker 1: serious mental health liability. And while I don't have empathy

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Speaker 1: for serial rapists, I do think that we underestimate the

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Speaker 1: power that that has over someone's life. Like even like, sure,

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Speaker 1: a rich person did another job sometime, but that is

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Speaker 1: not like we're not taking serious the emotional consequences of

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Speaker 1: something like this. Ye, And so when it's regular people

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Speaker 1: especially and not like someone who has a lot of power,

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Speaker 1: and we're canceling regular people who don't have that sort

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Speaker 1: of like existing cushion of existing power, like you're really

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Speaker 1: putting people in danger, like for real, for real? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so is there a better way? Can you talk to

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Speaker 1: the person? That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Man, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said it. I said it, she said it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Man, this shit gets so cold. It's like, yes, okay, great,

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Speaker 1: you've found something you believe in. That's awesome. Now don't

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Speaker 1: make that your cult, right, like, make balance your cult,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 5: Put it on a pillow.

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Speaker 1: Balance is my cult. We'll sell t shirts love it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want it all right. Now that I've ranted my

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Speaker 1: fucking ass off, should we talk to Tarah?

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Speaker 5: Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Welcome Tara Noel to the show. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for coming.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is so exciting to have you on. I

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Speaker 1: was just listening to your voice brushing up this morning.

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Speaker 1: Your story is incredible. So you are best known as

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Speaker 1: the person who killed Dirty John. Yes, that is correct.

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Speaker 1: Obviously there's so much more to you as a person,

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Speaker 1: but that is what you are best known for. So

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Speaker 1: can you just start us at the beginning. It's twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: your mom starts dating this new guy. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: the first time you met and like what you thought

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Speaker 1: of him?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, So I had talks with my sister beforehand.

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Speaker 3: My sister warned me that she didn't necessarily care for

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Speaker 3: this guy, and so I went out there with my

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Speaker 3: boyfriend at that time, and we drove out with three dogs,

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Speaker 3: and we were helping my mom.

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Speaker 4: Move into her apartment.

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Speaker 3: And the first thing we saw when we pulled up

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Speaker 3: was this guy wrestling with a man mattress on top

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Speaker 3: of like the ambrosia trucks that my mom has for

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Speaker 3: her company. And he just looked like he was struggling

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Speaker 3: and I couldn't really do it, and so my boyfriend

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Speaker 3: at the time went over to try to help him,

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Speaker 3: and that was our first introduction. And he didn't really

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Speaker 3: give us like the warmest kind of vibe at first,

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Speaker 3: and he wanted to get a mattress on top.

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Speaker 4: Of the car by himself.

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Speaker 3: So he was like letting my boyfriend at the time

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Speaker 3: know that, like he's got it.

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Speaker 1: So some toxic masculinity right up front.

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Speaker 2: Yep, you didn't know, were you like, this is my

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Speaker 2: mom's boyfriend or you were like, who's this random weird person.

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Speaker 3: Well, I kind of assume because like her company's van,

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Speaker 3: you know, and then he was down there, so you know.

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Speaker 3: But it's like usually when you get an introduction, you're

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Speaker 3: like your mom's introducing you. So it's like a weird

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Speaker 3: introduction right at the gut gun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you want it. It would be like, so nice

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Speaker 1: to meet you, or the daughter of my girlfriend.

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, hi, I'm Sarah, yeah John right right, So

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Speaker 3: your mom's like a cool business woman doing cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: So, which is probably one of the reasons I would

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Speaker 1: imagine that he's like targeting her, do you think.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Well, she's had articles out in like different design magazines,

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Speaker 3: so she was google able, and what showed up for

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Speaker 3: her was that she was this successful interior designer that

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Speaker 3: owned her own company.

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Speaker 2: They met on a dating website or like that app,

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Speaker 2: which one was.

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Speaker 5: It Our Time, Okay, so what is that?

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Speaker 3: It's like for fifties and overs the seniors, and she

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Speaker 3: was hitting that age of her life. So she was

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Speaker 3: on that app, and she's heard from different friends that

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Speaker 3: they had great experience on it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think generally most people are probably not

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Speaker 1: evil conmon so that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I've had a weird experience on dating apps,

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Speaker 3: so like.

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Speaker 1: You gotta be careful on I mean, there are shady

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Speaker 1: people for sure, don't get me wrong, but maybe not

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Speaker 1: that many comments. But still yeah, okay. So so then, like,

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Speaker 1: did you get a bad vibe from him once you

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Speaker 1: started interacting more? It seemed like your sister Jacqueline's her

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Speaker 1: name right, seemed like Jacqueline had more of an immediately

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Speaker 1: like response of like something wrong with this guy?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, Jacqueline can kind of see like a

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Speaker 3: bullshitter from a mile away. That's like she can just

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Speaker 3: read right through people. And I met him and I

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Speaker 3: really wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt

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Speaker 3: because he was making my mom happy and I wanted

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Speaker 3: her to be happy. But then I started to get

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Speaker 3: to know him, and you know, it was interesting because

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Speaker 3: I was having health problems at the time and he

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Speaker 3: was trying to diagnose me, and he told me that

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Speaker 3: I had an overian cyst, and that sounded like so

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Speaker 3: on point, it wasn't an OVERI insist though.

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Speaker 5: Because he said he was a doctor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's an anacsiologist in this and so you're like, oh, hello, doctor,

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Speaker 2: they assist.

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Speaker 5: That's interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well I was telling him my symptoms and everything, and

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Speaker 3: he's like, oh, it sounds like an ovarian cyst. And

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Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, I'll go to Obgynn and I actually did,

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Speaker 3: and that doctor actually ended up helping me. She was like,

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Speaker 3: you don't have overian cis, but I'm going to do

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Speaker 3: your blood test for you, because you're very stressed right

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Speaker 3: now and I can see you don't want to.

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Speaker 4: Go to other places.

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Speaker 3: So she actually did my blood work and stuff for

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Speaker 3: me there, and it turned out that I had thyroid

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Speaker 3: issues and hormone and balanced problems, probably from all the

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Speaker 3: stress in my life.

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Speaker 4: During that time.

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Speaker 3: And then I also had a stomach ulcer. But I

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Speaker 3: also my ex was in the entertainment industry and like.

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Speaker 4: Those hours are crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was getting into golden hours some days where

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Speaker 3: they're like twenty two hours. So gosh, that relationship is

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Speaker 3: also stressed on the right right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So as someone whose mother also met a like terrible

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Speaker 1: con Men person con man yourself, Yes, myself. I remember

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Speaker 1: when I met my like the guy who ended up

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Speaker 1: being our like prophet or whatever, I like had a

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Speaker 1: I definitely had a weird feeling about him and then

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Speaker 1: I sort of like pushed it down and ignored it.

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Speaker 1: Kind of a similar thing. I was like, well, he

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Speaker 1: makes my mom happy. And then I found out that

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Speaker 1: he was a prophet, and then that was a whole

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Speaker 1: other thing.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what I need to know more, but maybe later.

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Speaker 1: That's why we host this podcast. Yeah, so I'm I

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Speaker 1: guess I just want to know a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about like what you what you thought of him, and

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Speaker 1: like what some of the red flags that you started

408
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Speaker 1: to see were like right in the beginning.

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Speaker 3: Well, first we went out to dinner and he did

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Speaker 3: pay for the meal and everything, but I wonder if.

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Speaker 4: You paid in my mom's gift cards.

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Speaker 3: Because he wanted to go.

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Speaker 4: To CBK and he knew that.

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Speaker 3: I like CBK for pizza kitchen for the people that

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Speaker 3: don't know it's okay pizza shout up, yes, so you

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Speaker 3: know it's good.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty like affordable.

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Speaker 3: It's not like you're going to Mastro's steakhouse. And so

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Speaker 3: you know, he pain and we talked about my medical

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Speaker 3: stuff and that was like my vibes. But I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm like Gulobal sometimes, so I was like, yeah, I

422
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 3: totally have Overari insists and until like I started, we

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Speaker 3: actually got back and this was the weird thing.

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Speaker 4: I told John.

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Speaker 3: I was like, Hey, the child Locke is on the car,

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Speaker 3: you need to let me out.

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Speaker 4: I thought's okay, and.

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Speaker 3: He didn't hear me, or he like pretended like he

429
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Speaker 3: didn't hear me, and so I said it again and

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Speaker 3: he literally got out and went upstairs.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: And it was like me, my boyfriend at the time,

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Speaker 3: and my best friend in the car and we were

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Speaker 3: all just like wait, what, like weird really happened.

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Speaker 5: I do that too.

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Speaker 2: I mean I don't wait to see if people get out,

437
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Speaker 2: but I do just like open all the time.

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Speaker 5: People are like what are you doing?

439
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Speaker 2: And I'm like oh, and I was like at my

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Speaker 2: own nice is Yeah, so that's funny that you said that.

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00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he did that and then just got upstairs.

442
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 3: And then I had to text my mom to be like, hey,

443
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 3: can you come Dan to let me out of the car?

444
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: Super weird, Okay, all right, So then they start getting

445
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: closer and your mom's really happy. It sounds like you

446
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: like kind of love bombed the crap out of her,

447
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, it made her feel so special.

448
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's kind of lonely before and like just ready

449
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 2: for some romance and fun.

450
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 5: Is that the vibes or what?

451
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 3: No, because it's not like my mom didn't have people

452
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 3: wanting her. She had like many options for dates. Yeah,

453
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 3: and she just like didn't like the guy that was

454
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 3: like the boring, nice guy, right. You know, she wanted

455
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 3: something a little bit more exciting because when you're in

456
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 3: toxic relationships, you usually have a pattern of repeating toxic relationships,

457
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 3: and so you know, her pattern was she's had a

458
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 3: bad picture and picked a lot of past not.

459
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 4: So great choices.

460
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know this it was it was different

461
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 3: because of like that situation, if that makes.

462
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 4: Sense, right, Right?

463
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 5: Was he handsome?

464
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: I mean he's not my type.

465
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 5: He was really tall, right, Yeah, he was.

466
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 3: Tild like if you were in your fifties, guess you

467
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 3: could be like your type I.

468
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: Mean tall doctor in shape.

469
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah sure, I personally, like I don't really

470
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 3: like would want to date a doctor because like I know,

471
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 3: they're hours. I just don't want to date anyone that

472
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 3: has crazy.

473
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 4: Hours in stuff. Right, And then I.

474
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 3: Just noticed that there's a lot and I don't want

475
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 3: to say this and offend anyone, And I'm sure, if

476
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: you had a great reason to become a doctor. But

477
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 3: there is a lot of doctors that you know, do

478
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: have the ego, you know, doctor def and all those

479
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 3: other things.

480
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: Interesting the detail I find it this one fascinating where

481
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: he just like is constantly wearing scrubs, yeah, to like

482
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: play the part of a doctor. But it's like doctors

483
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: don't just walk around and scrubs all the time.

484
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 5: He went on their first date and scrubs, right.

485
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was their no, not their

486
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 3: first date, their first date, he was wearing like khakis

487
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: or something like that.

488
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 5: Okay, well that's fine, I guess, but yeah, from then.

489
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: On to a nice restaurant to like some shorts to

490
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 3: a restaurant, and they do have a dress code. Bear

491
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 3: even though like I've shown up many times hearing Lululemons

492
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: and they're fine with it, right right, I don't think

493
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 3: the khakis are a vibe, right right, you know, like

494
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 3: you could get away with like the Lululemon housewife by.

495
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: Sure, right, okay, okay, yeah, all right, so putting on this,

496
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: putting on a show. He's doctor man, but Jacqueline's getting

497
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: a weird vibe. Jacqueline did she think he wasn't really

498
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: a doct like what did she think?

499
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 3: She started to have a lot of suspicions of him.

500
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 3: She actually worked for a plastic surgeon beforehand, so she's

501
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 3: been like around that environment, and so she started to

502
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 3: notice that there wasn't some things right with what he

503
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: was saying. And then he kind of walked into the apartment,

504
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: which my mom and my sister shared at the time,

505
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: and he kind of just lurked and she noticed that

506
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: where my sister's like, he's just like betting out what

507
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: he wants, right.

508
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: Interesting, there was an intruder who kim in correct.

509
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 5: So do you think this was a setup? Because after

510
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 5: this intruder there was cameras put up everywhere.

511
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: So from the beginning it happened like from the moment

512
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: that I found out that there was someone that broke

513
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: into the place, I thought it was a setup. And

514
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: you know, we don't have proof that it was a setup,

515
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 3: but there's a lot of speculation that it was.

516
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: So it was a woman and a strange woman in

517
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: the house wearing was she wearing your mom clothes?

518
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 5: Yes?

519
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like drinking oval tine. Okay, she's called the

520
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: oval teene lady nice.

521
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, and then after that, cameras get installed everywhere

522
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: and he starts using them to like check up on

523
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: her behavior.

524
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 5: So creepy.

525
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: When did the like tension between John and like the

526
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,479
Speaker 1: kids start? Like when did he start trying to isolate

527
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: your mom from her family?

528
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 3: So it was different with all of us because we

529
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: kind of all started to buzz in her ear. And

530
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 3: then that's when he would be like, Oh, that person,

531
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 3: you know just wants your money. That person isn't wanting

532
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 3: your best interests at her person. That person's jealous that

533
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: we're together. But it's like, why would we be jealous

534
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 3: that are moms with someone? Yeah, right, we don't have

535
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 3: that relationship with her, so we're happy. Yeah, And for

536
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 3: the most part, all of us had relationships that we

537
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 3: were in, so it's not like.

538
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we just want to be alone together.

539
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe brought me to my show.

540
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 3: I mean, it would be great if she didn't date

541
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 3: a psychopath.

542
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: Sure, but right right when they got married, that was

543
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: a secret.

544
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we didn't know about that.

545
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: That was only two months into the relationship, yes, crazy.

546
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 3: And like one month or like a couple of weeks

547
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: after my mom and me had a big falling out

548
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 3: and John was there too, So that's like the last

549
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: time I talked to her kind of before things like

550
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 3: other than other than I hate you, you know, he

551
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: needs to leave and stuff.

552
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 5: When was the first moment you were like, I hate him?

553
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 3: Get out that moment when he came up to the door.

554
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: It was the day before Things Giving, and I bought

555
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: all the groceries for Things Giving, had everything planned. I

556
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: usually am one of the people that cooks all the

557
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 3: stuff for Thanksgiving, so I bought everything. And he's been

558
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 3: around for like a month and like a couple of weeks,

559
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: which is.

560
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: Like nothing okay, but in Narcissi's timeline, that's like.

561
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

562
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: But he just he came up behind my mom and

563
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 3: I was arguing with her because I was asking her

564
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 3: about like why is he driving your car? Isn't he

565
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: a doctor? Doesn't he have his own car? You know,

566
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: can't he go get a car with.

567
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: His budget doctor money?

568
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

569
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 3: Why is he living here? You know, I get the

570
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: vibe that he's living here, And she was lying to

571
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: me about that or you know, in her mind. I

572
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 3: don't know if she thinks that he was living there

573
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 3: during that time or if she thinks that he was

574
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 3: just staying there a lot. But I started to have

575
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: those concerns, and I went to go see my sister

576
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 3: who was getting her hair done, and we all have

577
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: the same hairdresser, and the hairdresser was just like saying

578
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 3: stuff that like, hey, that's not right, that's weird, you know,

579
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 3: and having her opinion about things.

580
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 4: So we were like, okay, And.

581
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: Then my mom told me that she was at the

582
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 3: hospital with him. And I've had a lot of friends

583
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 3: who like had heroin addictions and have been junkies and stuff,

584
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: and I was like, he's in the hospital getting a fix,

585
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 3: and there's just like that vibe.

586
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: How did how what? What led that led you to

587
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: that conclusion?

588
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: We like, why would he be in the hospital for

589
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: his arm hurting? That's usually like that's like the biggest.

590
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: To the doctor as opposed to like for work.

591
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you're shooting up in your arm all

592
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,239
Speaker 3: the time, your veins are gonna be like offset and

593
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: you're like you're gonna do anything to try to go

594
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: get that fix. And then I he even told me

595
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: something about like insurance, like he was changing. He was

596
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: a month and a half into like it with my mom,

597
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 3: but he was changing our insurance and stuff.

598
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh ooh.

599
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: So like he was saying that Kaiser had like the best,

600
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, but that was probably like easiest

601
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: for him to get drugs through that system.

602
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 4: I don't interesting.

603
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, So did he act like could you tell

604
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: was there anything addicty about his general behavior?

605
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: Well, when he came back, he was so happy and

606
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: like normally when you're like coming back from the hospital

607
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: and stuff, you're a little out of it. You're like,

608
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: I just want to rest, I just want to like,

609
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: you know, get better. But no, he was on a

610
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: good one.

611
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: He's like, I got my payment, I got my opiates.

612
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 3: I'm feeling good.

613
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 5: I mean, as an addict, I do know the feeling.

614
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

615
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 5: Wow, yeah, okay, so he's flying on top of the world. Yes.

616
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about that day,

617
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: the day before Thanksgiving, because it sounds like you guys

618
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: had a real there was a real confrontation that day, right.

619
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

620
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: Well, I was just talking to my mom and then

621
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: he came up in the doorway right behind her and

622
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: kind of just saying that I wanted my mom all

623
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 3: to myself, that I was like basically that I was

624
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 3: having these feelings because of jealousy and I was taking

625
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: advantage of my mom.

626
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 4: And I remember just yelling lots of fews.

627
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 3: And then saying, no, John, that's what you want, right,

628
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 3: And it was like once I kind of said that,

629
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: it was like, well, what am I gonna do. I'm

630
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 3: not gonna stay here and I'm not like welcomed here.

631
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 3: So I started like I was packing my stuff and

632
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,479
Speaker 3: like she wasn't telling me no, please stay. It was

633
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 3: like okay, like We're going to continue to yell until

634
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 3: you get your stuff out of here. And I lived

635
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: in Vegas at the time, so I was staying at

636
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: her place and I didn't have anywhere to go except

637
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: for like my sister's house. But my sister's house didn't

638
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: allow dogs, so we had to like hide the dogs

639
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: and bring them up in like.

640
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 4: Boxes to her apartment.

641
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: And it was just like it was the worst time

642
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 3: because after that John took my mom's phone and was

643
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 3: sent My sister was standing up for me and being like,

644
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: how dare you do this to Tara, Like you kicked

645
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 3: her out of the house and you're choosing this guy

646
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: over like your daughter and he took he had my

647
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: mom's phone and was like telling my sister to go

648
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: kill herself from like my mom and so.

649
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: And did she know that it wasn't your mom saying that.

650
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 3: At the time, but it was like I I was

651
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: like holding my sister trying to tell her like I

652
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: don't think that's mom. I don't think that's mom. Look

653
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: at the wording. I don't think that's mom. Like mom

654
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: doesn't use these words, so you know, but if it's

655
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 3: coming from like mom and text message, it's like my mom's.

656
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 4: Telling me to go kill myself.

657
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

658
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: So he was just you know, yeah, how did you

659
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: feel about what was your relationship with your mom? Like then?

660
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: Were you just so angry?

661
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: Like I was very angry and my sister and I

662
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 3: weren't invited to Thanksgiving even though this guy was a

663
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 3: month and a half in the picture, crazy and you

664
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: know he's having Thanksgiving with my family. Yeah, and that

665
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: I also like caused a lot of turmoil in my

666
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: relationship at the time too, because but that relationship it's

667
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 3: going to come to it and eventually, but you know,

668
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: it was causing just chaotic all the way around.

669
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: So your sister and her boyfriend at the time boyfriend.

670
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 3: So my sister and then my brother in law, so

671
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: my other sister's husband. They were the ones that hired

672
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: the private investigator and then started looking more into them

673
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 3: where Shad was actually hanging out with like my mom

674
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: and John and stuff. Oh interesting, and until John made

675
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 3: this comment about shooting my sister with a sniper rifle.

676
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: And then that's when Shad kind of started to not

677
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: be friends with him anymore and actually get into it

678
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: with him, and they would send each other nasty messages

679
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: all the time and stuff.

680
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: Right, So there are so many throughout the series, there

681
00:33:53,560 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: are so many just like really mean, like scary, vitriolic, Yes,

682
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: is back and forth like oh, he was saying some crazy.

683
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 3: Shit, although never to me though, because I well, he

684
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: tried to send me stuff, but he I didn't see

685
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: it until after everything happened, because I just like, I

686
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 3: don't engage with people like thought. I don't engage with

687
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: like people you know, trying to send me threats and stuff, right, terrorists,

688
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 3: you good, you don't engage with the narcissist. And then

689
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: you play the gray Rock method.

690
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 4: And you you know.

691
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: Yes, we love gray Rock for actually if anyone doesn't

692
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: know what gray rock means, can you kind of describe it?

693
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: Okay, so you basically like your teplon. So if the

694
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 3: narcissist is saying mean things to you, I was gonna

695
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 3: be sarcastic there and saying not nice things. But you know,

696
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: with the narcissist is kind of like rapid fire, you know,

697
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 3: and he's saying you're terrible blah blah blah blah blah.

698
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: You know, you kind of are just like, Okay, I'm

699
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 3: sorry you feel this way, and then you kind of.

700
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 4: Just like you don't react.

701
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you're just like or you don't even

702
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: say like, I'm sorry you're feeling this way, you.

703
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 4: Can just like not do anything, you know.

704
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 3: But if sometimes you don't do anything, you just have

705
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 3: to play neutral, right. You know.

706
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: My understanding is like you, they want to get a

707
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: reaction out of you of any kind. So if you're

708
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: just as boring as possible and do not react, they

709
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: start to get bored because they're like, well, I can't

710
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: manipulate this person.

711
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: Here's the magic saying maybe you're right, yeah.

712
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 5: Maybe're right.

713
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, even when they're just trying to go to you

714
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: into like twisting reality or any of that stuff, like

715
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: just don't argue with them, just like be boring.

716
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, or.

717
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes if it keeps coming at you just

718
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: don't respond.

719
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: Or don't respond yea ideally don't respond, but you do respond,

720
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: be boring.

721
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: So it's like you're it's called the great rock thing

722
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: because it's just it's not shiny, it's not interesting. I'd

723
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: never heard of it referred to that before, so it's

724
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 2: really great.

725
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

726
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: So it's just like be a boring rock that they

727
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 2: don't even notice because you're not shining at them back

728
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: anything fun.

729
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 5: Right, cool.

730
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a really great book called The Verbally Abusive Relationship,

731
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: which my old therapist had recommended to me after a

732
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: particular relationship. But what they talk about is how abusive

733
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: people slash narcissists they're not operating on the same plane

734
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: of reality because their entire goal is to get power

735
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: over you. So when you like argue with their points

736
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: and they're distorting reality, what you're actually doing is playing

737
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: into what they want, which is like a Hi, I

738
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: can manipulate, I can get a reaction, I can get

739
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: a rise, whereas when you're like, I will not engage

740
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 1: with you when we're like not operating on the same

741
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: playing level here. It's just like whatever, if you have

742
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: to deal with them, it's.

743
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 5: The healthier way to deal with them.

744
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: Yes, anyway, just a fun little aside because I don't

745
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: I don't think we'd talk about that.

746
00:36:58,760 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 5: We haven't.

747
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: So a private investigator comes in and starts getting all

748
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: this information out and can you just like tell us

749
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: some of the stuff that came out through this process?

750
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 3: Oh okay, So he had stocked other women. He almost

751
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: got like thirty three or thirty one million dollars from

752
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 3: this one Brazilian lady.

753
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: That much money, yeah, oh my god.

754
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: Because he claimed to be like her doctor or her anesthesiologist. Sorry,

755
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 3: And she met him at the hospital and he got

756
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 3: in a relationship with her, and she was this wealthy

757
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 3: author from Brazil and she had all her money over

758
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 3: there and needed it to come here.

759
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 4: Oh no, and so.

760
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 3: Like that was like his plan is like, oh, I'll

761
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: help you get the money here. Than one of her

762
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: friends was like, what are you doing. This guy has

763
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 3: access to thirty one million dollars or however it was

764
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: like around that, and then she was like, oh, maybe

765
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 3: you're right. I shouldn't do that.

766
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 5: I'm surprised he didn't try to hold her hostage or something.

767
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 3: Oh well, after she refused, And she actually talks about

768
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 3: it in the documentary that was in Oxygen with all

769
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: the players. She talks about how he would send her

770
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 3: threats and stuff after and.

771
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that is that the woman who was recovering

772
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: from brain surgeryy, yes, that story is bunkers. This woman

773
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: has is waking up from freaking brain surgery and this

774
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: man's like, Hi, I'm your anesthesiologist.

775
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 5: Just wearing scrubs in a hospital pretending.

776
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: You know.

777
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 3: I don't know if it exactly happened like that, but

778
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: I think it did. I sometimes I get like the

779
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 3: the sh.

780
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: And fax skill little I understand. Yeah, but either way,

781
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: like what a? What a? Of course you're like, oh

782
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: you helped me, thank you? Oh my goodness, did this

783
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: is so sweet that you've come to check up like whatever?

784
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: Such a crazy, manipulative thing to do. And then it

785
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: turns into a stalker basically, yeah.

786
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: Well, it's like he's hitting her in like her lowest stage,

787
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 3: in a point of weakness, and she needs someone to help,

788
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 3: so you know she's gonna be more wanting to rely

789
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: on this person exactly than if she was one hundred Okay, right.

790
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: I mean brain surgery in particularly, like that's got to

791
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: be like the most vulnerable thing that could be happening

792
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: in a hospital, that's your brain. Yeah, yeah, you're definitely

793
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: not yourself, I would imagine. Wow, Yeah, what else? What

794
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: else did did you guys learn?

795
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 3: So there was a storage and I think it was

796
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 3: Cathedral City or something like that, storage somewhere, and there

797
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: was a refrigerator inside. It had like stuff for cyanide,

798
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 3: zip ties, a children's book, but it was in like

799
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 3: a backpack.

800
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 2: That's the scariest combination of things I ever heard, right,

801
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: storage in a children's book, cyanide, No, yeah, zip.

802
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: Ties and a children's book.

803
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 5: Okay.

804
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 3: And then I don't know if this was from the

805
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: private investigat or something we found out closer to like

806
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 3: my mom leaving him, but he literally cut open his

807
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 3: stomach in jail and stuff feces in it so that

808
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 3: he go to the hospital and get a fix.

809
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm just like in shock.

810
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 3: Well, and then when I heard that information, I knew

811
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 3: that if he could do that to himself, oh yeah,

812
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 3: he could cut a person, no problem, for sure.

813
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 2: So this is when you start getting a little bit

814
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: more scared that something physical could happen.

815
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 3: Well, it kind of just confirms that I might validate

816
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: my own you know. And because I had dreams about

817
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: killing him with a knife.

818
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 5: Have you ever had a dream like that before?

819
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 4: Just like I've had dreams that.

820
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: Like have happened that come true in stuff, but not

821
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: like stabbing.

822
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and King, I never had.

823
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: I don't think I sabbed anyone in a dream, So

824
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: that's kind of it. I watched a lot of horror movies,

825
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: so it's that weird.

826
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 5: But I just personally.

827
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: So he it turned out that he was a nurse,

828
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,959
Speaker 1: but his license was revoked and he was not never

829
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: an anasthesiologist. That was completely lie. Yes, but he.

830
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 3: Did start to go to school for nurse.

831
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: And neesetus okay, but he didn't finish. He was never practicing, right,

832
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: that's so.

833
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 4: Unclear to me.

834
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, He's a little bit of a mystery in

835
00:41:58,840 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: some way.

836
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: Still interesting either way, he's like fudging his life. Definitely,

837
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: he's not working at a hospital anyway.

838
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: At least if he would have gotten the nurissis thing,

839
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: he could have done like botox or something.

840
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 5: Helpful, but not even that.

841
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 3: No, he had a good like straight psychopath.

842
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, multiple restraining orders had gone to jail. And and

843
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: again tell me if this if this was another twisted fact.

844
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: But from what I understand, he had been in jail

845
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: right up unto the point where he met your mom. Yes,

846
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: that was true, and that's why he looked like so

847
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: kind of haggard.

848
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess so.

849
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 3: But you know, I don't know who he.

850
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: Was before then, right, Maybe maybe he always looked like that, like.

851
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 2: I'm out of jail, I'm going to get on our

852
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 2: time and find some somebody to skim immediately.

853
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 4: That was his mo for like every woman.

854
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: It was just really weird that he married her because

855
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 3: that wasn't his typical you know moo with what he

856
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 3: did with women was like he got in there, found

857
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 3: way to take money and take advantage of them. But

858
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 3: I wonder if my mom kind of led on that.

859
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 3: She was like in es sense, like a narcissist dream

860
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 3: like super agreeable and gonna give him whatever he wanted,

861
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: where he was able to have this cash cow for years. Yeah,

862
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 3: I think that maybe that was his hope. But when

863
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: you meet the family, it's a different vibe.

864
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder if just all the other

865
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: women just like called bullshit event like in time for

866
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: it to not get to that point. Although he was

867
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: in that marriage for a while, I guess with the way.

868
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: With Tanya until he left her for another woman, and

869
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 3: then she started to catch light of like some things.

870
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: And I don't know if that like made him be like, oh,

871
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to leave her right now, or if it

872
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: was because of the other women.

873
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: But all around, like not a good person to date even, yeah,

874
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: even if you take all the violence out, like not

875
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: a good person to be dating.

876
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 4: Not at all.

877
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And well, like what work.

878
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 4: Does he have?

879
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: Like he has all the stuff claiming to be stolen

880
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 3: and stuff like why would you want to get into

881
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 3: a relationship with a guy that has a bunch of

882
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 3: stuff stolen? You know, don't don't be the nice girl

883
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 3: and feel sorry for these guys.

884
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, although yeah, sometimes maybe someone.

885
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 3: Might actually the stuff stolen.

886
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: No, I don't know what that story is. But I

887
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: also want to just mention, like from your mom's perspective,

888
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: what it sounded like was this was a really intoxicating

889
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: He was like doting on her, he was doing everything

890
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: for her and running her errands and making her feel beautiful,

891
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: like it's not like she wasn't getting anything out of it.

892
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you know sex on top of that.

893
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 3: I hate to talk about that, even though it's my mom,

894
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 3: but when you're getting in a relationship and you're having

895
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: sex earlier on, you're having so many chemicals and hormone

896
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 3: thrown at you that your mind isn't able to think straight,

897
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 3: and all you're thinking about is let's procreate and recreate babies.

898
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 1: You know, fashion well, and narcissists are supremely good at

899
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: making it feel like a storybook romance right and like

900
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: sweeping you off of your feet, love bombing the fuck

901
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: out of you. It's like, if somebody seems too into

902
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: me right away, I'm immediately like, what's wrong here?

903
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 3: This?

904
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: You don't know me?

905
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 5: What is this?

906
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: Because I have had that experience and I have observed

907
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: that so much in my life, Like that is a

908
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: pretty big red flag. But when you're in it, it

909
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: feels so good.

910
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 4: Oh it is.

911
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: Well.

912
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: I especially love the Druggies because they're so in it

913
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 3: and happy at one time, and then you're like, I

914
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 3: don't like it when they're bad. But it's like they

915
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: want to do everything. They're like, oh, let's.

916
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 5: Go here, let's go do this, let's.

917
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 3: Go off roading. And you're like, yeah, this sounds like

918
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: what an adventure.

919
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 5: That's so true?

920
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. But then so your mom obviously finds out

921
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: all this stuff about him at the same time as like,

922
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: you guys are telling her about his history, right.

923
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: So they found out and then they called me and

924
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: were like, I'm gonna call Mom or Deborah and tell her,

925
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 3: and I just want you to be aware of this.

926
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 3: And it was like something was finally getting answered, like

927
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 3: a weight was getting lifted off her shoulders. And that's

928
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 3: how it felt to get that news, to tell her,

929
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 3: even though you're getting this terrible news, but it just

930
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 3: feels like there's hope.

931
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

932
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 3: And then they went and told her. My mom ended

933
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: up leaving. She stayed with my sister and her kids

934
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 3: and her husband and whatnot. And then she started to

935
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 3: go back to John because he was able to convince

936
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: her that these things that had happened weren't all him, right.

937
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: Can you do you remember some of the specific explanations

938
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: he had, Because that's the thing. I'm the most I'm

939
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: always the most interested in is like this is so common. Also,

940
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: I want to say, like for people who might not

941
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: be familiar with this type of situation and be like, well,

942
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: why would you go back? Obviously it's a bad guy,

943
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: but like this happens so so much, and it's because

944
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: they're like I mean, it's a lot of different factors

945
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: at play, but one of them is that they're just

946
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: really really good manipulators. So yeah, do you remember any

947
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: of the like specific explanations or stories he gave her?

948
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 3: So he would tell her that like, look, these are

949
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 3: different socials like social Security card numbers and stuff like, look,

950
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 3: these are different socials, so they're not me. And look

951
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 3: this is like Jonathan me Haarren, that's not me. And

952
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: then he also took her to a lawyer, and the.

953
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: Lawyer was like supposed to be on his side and

954
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: be like he's telling the truth.

955
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 5: But am I remembering this?

956
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 3: Right?

957
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 5: Was the lawyer did he tell your mom like your

958
00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 5: life is in danger with this?

959
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 3: So I'm not sure. I don't think it was that lawyer.

960
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: It was like a different lawyer that told I think

961
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 3: it was maybe someone that was involved with helping him,

962
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 3: like sue everyone else.

963
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: I see, I see it was still somebody that should

964
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: have been on his team, but was like run, No, he.

965
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 4: Didn't warn my mom.

966
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 5: I see.

967
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 3: My mom actually got with another lawyer I see, and

968
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 3: she he was the one that was like this guy

969
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 3: I hear, and John went to that one too, and

970
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 3: this guy was like, hey, I want you to be careful,

971
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 3: you know.

972
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: And that was they went to that lawyer to negotiate

973
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,479
Speaker 1: the terms of their mayor or why.

974
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 5: Did they go to that lawyer?

975
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 4: I don't know.

976
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 3: There was a lot of stuff he was I think

977
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 3: because one of my mom's past relationships had stolen lots

978
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 3: of money from her, and so John wanted her to

979
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 3: sue him to get money.

980
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, yeah, okay, wow, Oh that's ironic.

981
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 3: Well, he like, how can I generate more money from her? Yeah?

982
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. Some of these parallels between John and my

983
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: former quote profit are like I am striking, yeah, because

984
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: he is a sewer. He tries to sue everyone and

985
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: fortunately he's incompetent and he's never done it correctly, but

986
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: anyone who's spoken out against him. He manages to swindle

987
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 1: people out of their money and sign their wills over

988
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: to him, and he's he's tried to sue me before.

989
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm shocked he hasn't tried to sue me since this

990
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: podcast started. Honestly, I don't know why he hasn't done it.

991
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: I will crush him if he tries. Don't try it,

992
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: I fucking dare you. But yeah, and like finding multiple

993
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: just women over and over again, like finding so many

994
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: different people to swindle, although in his case it was

995
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: more from the instead of pretending to be a doctor,

996
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: he was pretending to be a prophet. And with women, okay, yeah,

997
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: and men. He has a male victim. He has a

998
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: whole following out. But yeah, the parallels among these guys

999
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: are just like interesting. It doesn't matter what your story is,

1000
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: you're still just doing the same thing.

1001
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 2: Completely dead inside. Yeah, and intent on making everyone measure.

1002
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: Taking people's money, and trying to intimidate people. Yeah, anyway,

1003
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: I like.

1004
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: Just want to know more.

1005
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: Episode one of our shows.

1006
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I will tune in.

1007
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: Okay, so your mom leaves. That must have been such

1008
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: a relief when she first leaves.

1009
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but I also had the feeling that this

1010
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: isn't over. You know, I've been with Sewing Toxic before

1011
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 3: and that hit me with a car and so like

1012
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 3: I went back to that relationship several times, even though

1013
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 3: that guy did that to me. So it's just like

1014
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 3: I just had that sense that like, oh, she's going

1015
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,760
Speaker 3: to be back. It's not done yet, but I'm happy

1016
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 3: that there's this awareness.

1017
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: Now it's begun. Yeah. Can you so you have some

1018
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: unique insight into why people return? Can you do you

1019
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on like the six psychology of why

1020
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: that happens?

1021
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 4: Well, there's so many reasons.

1022
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 3: It really depends on the situation and everything. For me,

1023
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: I have watched my parents be in, you know, not

1024
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 3: this great relationship. I love them both, and I think

1025
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 3: that they're great separate.

1026
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 4: They're just great separate people.

1027
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, when a relationship is not working,

1028
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 3: it's always toxic, right, And that's the thing that people

1029
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 3: need to realize is that you don't have to be

1030
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: with a narcissist to be in a toxic relationship. You

1031
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 3: could be with so incodependent and it's just not working

1032
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: on either end. So for me, I grew up in

1033
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 3: this Christian family and in the Christianity religion, and one

1034
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 3: thing that I was taught was like, you get married

1035
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 3: and you have babies, and you teach them to be

1036
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 3: these Christian loving people, and for me, I felt kind

1037
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 3: of cohersed into this lifestyle that I wanted and that

1038
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: the man is superior and whatnot, and then seeing it

1039
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 3: in my mom's relationships played out that I kind of

1040
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 3: went into these toxic relationships where like the first time

1041
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 3: I had sex, like I was like a good Christian girl,

1042
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 3: but then this guy comes in and he claims to

1043
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 3: be a good Christian too, and then he's like, well,

1044
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 3: sex is okay, you can have it. And then he

1045
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 3: told me like, I don't know how much longer I

1046
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 3: could be in this if we don't do this, and

1047
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 3: you know, so all these things are being told and

1048
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 3: then so that's why I did it, and I do

1049
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 3: it to please and because not gonna lie. I'm insecure

1050
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 3: and I wanted to feel loved and supported by someone.

1051
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: And the only way I saw that was in the

1052
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 3: light of me being a relationship with a mill and

1053
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 3: someone that's controlling, because that's what I liked, because I

1054
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: liked for someone to tell me what to do and

1055
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 3: what I needed to do because I didn't know who

1056
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 3: I was myself, and I didn't have my voice, so

1057
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 3: it took me a long time to kind of realize

1058
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 3: that that relationship was toxic, except well, like when he

1059
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 3: hit me with car, it's kind of like, well, I

1060
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 3: don't want to go back and I have all that trauma.

1061
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 3: But then he gets back in and I remember one

1062
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 3: day after he hit me with a car too, he

1063
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 3: shows up at my work like nothing happened. And it's

1064
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 3: like these guys sometimes, well they're true abusers. They're going

1065
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 3: to pretend like nothing happened. They're not going to validate

1066
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 3: your feelings, but they might tell you sorry one time

1067
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 3: just to get you hooked back in.

1068
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know it, friend, I'm talking about.

1069
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: I have a friend who got punched in the face

1070
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: by a man and she like tried to tell him

1071
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: she was angry at him, and he just like kept

1072
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 1: deflecting and being like what do you but why but

1073
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 1: besides the punch, why are you mad at me? Oh?

1074
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: And like fully just like totally guess lighting her and

1075
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: making her think that that was like just a normal

1076
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: thing that happened. It's crazy how they do this.

1077
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so crazy.

1078
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: And to your point about not having an identity, some

1079
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: of these people are all of these people. One thing

1080
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: that they're really good at is even if you're not

1081
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 1: already sort of the perfect type of victim that they're

1082
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: looking for or whatever, what they're really good at is

1083
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: smashing your identity. So even if you had it before,

1084
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: they crush it, and then you need them, and then

1085
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: you feel like you need them, and then they have

1086
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: power over you, and then you do look to them

1087
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,959
Speaker 1: for like your decisions and whatever. So it's like they

1088
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,959
Speaker 1: create that in you, even if that wasn't in you before.

1089
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Well, like what you're talking

1090
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 3: about too is what like the abusers do with trauma

1091
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 3: bonding is where you know, first they start love bombing

1092
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: you and then they start to kind of there's like

1093
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 3: seven stages, but that is I think like one of

1094
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 3: the fifth stages or something where it's like a crazy cyclone.

1095
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 4: I have I have notes.

1096
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 3: I made them for my mom to use and I

1097
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 3: was like, why didn't I study them?

1098
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1099
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1100
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: So anyway, this is all to say that like this

1101
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: is really common and it's not an accident, and it's

1102
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: not because women are just weak who do this. It's

1103
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: because like there's somebody manipulating them who's able to identify

1104
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: their vulnerabilities and prey upon them. Okay, to be continued

1105
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: next week. It's crazy, y'all. She did a very impressive thing,

1106
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: So Megan, Yes, I mean, you know, what do you

1107
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: think guy dating app handsome doctor wears scrubs all the

1108
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: time and doesn't really seem to have a consistent place

1109
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: that he goes. But what do you think would.

1110
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 2: You Hey, you know what, man, I'm dated weirder, Let's

1111
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 2: be honest. You know, first day out with John, I

1112
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 2: would probably think what an eccentric doctor we have on

1113
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: our hands.

1114
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 5: I can't wait to get to know him better. Yeah,

1115
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 5: you know, yeah, for sure.

1116
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: Whatever, I've been out with people and I've been like, oh,

1117
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: that thing seems weird, and then I get to know

1118
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:29,720
Speaker 1: them and I'm like that wasn't that weird?

1119
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 3: Why?

1120
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: Like why was I so worried about that? And then

1121
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: it's other not to say that, Like red flags are

1122
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: legitimate and you should like trust your intuition if you

1123
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: get a red flag. But I think I've been surprised

1124
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: by people so many times, or like misjudged them so

1125
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: many times that I would absolutely overlook a couple of

1126
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: weird things and be like he's probably great. Yeah, you know, sure,

1127
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: once the money starts coming into it, maybe that's when

1128
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: you can start to be concerned.

1129
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think next week's episode will kind of open

1130
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: up to the uh the real time when.

1131
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 5: When you start to be like hmm, maybe not. Yeah.

1132
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 1: And also I've gone out with guys and seen red

1133
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,240
Speaker 1: flags that were legitimate, and I knew they were red flags,

1134
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: and I still fucking continued to go out with them

1135
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: because they were exciting. Like of course, that's just like, yeah,

1136
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,959
Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard to resist an exciting red flag.

1137
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: I'll tell you.

1138
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 5: I mean, you don't have to tell me twice.

1139
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: It's exciting to resist. No, I was, fuck, I was

1140
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: charged to tell you twice.

1141
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 5: Do we have anything else to add?

1142
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: Maybe happy Saint Patrick's Day.

1143
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 5: Either way, we'll see you next week. We can't wait

1144
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 5: to talk to you again this week. Remember to follow

1145
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 5: your gut, watch out for red.

1146
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: Flags, and never ever trust me.

1147
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 3: Bye