Speaker 1: I do part two as a one of a kind
Speaker 1: experience in podcasting and love.
Speaker 2: If you don't get right the first time, we're here
Speaker 2: to help you get it right the next time.
Speaker 1: I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Kelly ben Simone from
Speaker 1: the Real Housewives of New York and I know firsthand
Speaker 1: that love stories don't always have fairy tale endings, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean.
Speaker 2: You should give up on love.
Speaker 1: Today, I'm going to be joined with another one of
Speaker 1: our celebrity mentors. You know her as former pro dancer
Speaker 1: for twenty six seasons on Dancing with the Stars, and
Speaker 1: she's the host of the podcast Sex, Lies and Spray Tans.
Speaker 1: Please welcome Cheryl Burke to the podcast.
Speaker 3: Hi Cheryl, Hi, how are you Kelly?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm great? Thank you? How are you?
Speaker 2: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: First of all, you're so beautiful. Your life drop dead? Thanks,
Speaker 1: drop you dead. We have so much to talk about.
Speaker 1: We have so much in common.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 4: I read a little bit about you. I saw a
Speaker 4: couple of your past interviews, so yes, we do have
Speaker 4: a lot in common.
Speaker 1: Actually, I mean you were a dancer, I was a model.
Speaker 2: You have pretty long hair. I have pretty long hair.
Speaker 4: I mean, if I really were to take if I
Speaker 4: were to be real this, most of the hair is fake,
Speaker 4: you know, but it is what it is.
Speaker 2: It's fine, You're beautiful. We do have a lot in common.
Speaker 1: We've been we both have been through a lot of
Speaker 1: difficult times in our past with relationships, with finding love.
Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about your.
Speaker 1: Relationship and why you think that it didn't work out
Speaker 1: or why you know it didn't work out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just go backwards here.
Speaker 4: So now right as of today, I am single and
Speaker 4: celibate for the last three years, and I have definitely
Speaker 4: found power in that. I used to be a serial dater,
Speaker 4: so I always went from man to man to man,
Speaker 4: never had maybe a couple days off, like I'm not
Speaker 4: exaggerating whatsoever. And with my marriage to my ex husband,
Speaker 4: you know, we actually met when I first started Dancing
Speaker 4: with the Stars through his older brother who did Dancing
Speaker 4: with the Stars back in season three. So that was
Speaker 4: like in two thousand and seven, and I was very
Speaker 4: new to this entertainment industry and it was just bad timing,
Speaker 4: I guess too, because he was obviously still is, i'm assuming,
Speaker 4: an actor and he started as a child, and I
Speaker 4: was just at the height of the success of Dancing
Speaker 4: with the Stars. So we were on tour. We did
Speaker 4: two seasons a year, two tours a year, so I
Speaker 4: was just like working all around the clock, barely had
Speaker 4: a day off. And so we dated for a year
Speaker 4: and then we reconnected about a decade later and started
Speaker 4: dating and soon after got married. So and now not married.
Speaker 1: Right, So serial dater to getting married to not getting married.
Speaker 2: So dating someone marrying.
Speaker 1: Someone who was not in your financial bracket, right, I
Speaker 1: don't know how how better to say it.
Speaker 4: We we just weren't I guess he wasn't necessarily working
Speaker 4: right the time. Yeah, as much he was working, but
Speaker 4: not as much.
Speaker 1: Right, So that must have been really stressful because you
Speaker 1: were traveling and your hours are crazy, and you're worth
Speaker 1: a lot of new people.
Speaker 2: And I kind of.
Speaker 4: Knew what I was getting into, you know, like I
Speaker 4: am that's just my personality, Like I am never going
Speaker 4: to not make money. I think that comes from my mother,
Speaker 4: who's rags to riches story, you know, and I've seen
Speaker 4: her hustle, was raised with her hustle. So that's who
Speaker 4: I am ultimately, and I am actually proud of that.
Speaker 4: There's no shame with that for sure, And I knew
Speaker 4: what I was marrying, so like I knew what I
Speaker 4: was getting into financially. However, it did take a toll,
Speaker 4: I would say more. Maybe I'm not going to speak
Speaker 4: for him. I'm not here to bad mouth and whatsoever.
Speaker 4: But I believe that there is this gender role right
Speaker 4: where a man may feel a little emasculated when he
Speaker 4: doesn't make the majority of the money, and I think
Speaker 4: that may have taken a toll.
Speaker 1: So this episode is a lot about prenups. Did you
Speaker 1: guys have a prenup?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And why did you get the prenup? Well, you know,
Speaker 4: for obvious reasons. I mean I got a prenup. My
Speaker 4: family actually they were very involved with that. They my
Speaker 4: mother wanted you know, me to be protected. I also,
Speaker 4: my family has some money and we had to protect
Speaker 4: the family estate, but also for me as well. It clearly,
Speaker 4: you know, I was the one making more money, so
Speaker 4: my mom, you know, I owned a home and.
Speaker 3: There's just a lot of little details.
Speaker 4: I don't think a lot of people know when it
Speaker 4: comes to especially in California, you know, So I'm not
Speaker 4: sure if this is true. What we could ask the professional,
Speaker 4: who's about to be here soon? I hear that if
Speaker 4: somebody plants a succulent actually on your property, they could
Speaker 4: fight for your property if you guys divorce and without
Speaker 4: a prenup, that is. But that was no easy conversation.
Speaker 1: Right, I was just going to ask that, how did
Speaker 1: you approach that? You're like, let's go pumpkin picking and
Speaker 1: talk prenups?
Speaker 4: Like an ultimatum. Yeah, it was a full on ultimatum
Speaker 4: and my prenup attorney. First of all, it's not cheap.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 4: It consisted of like seventy to eighty five pages long,
Speaker 4: of lots of words and lots of fine detail and
Speaker 4: fine print. But this was something that my attorney suggested
Speaker 4: was to make sure I hire him an attorney as well.
Speaker 4: So that was definitely part of the deal. And I understood,
Speaker 4: like it's all good, but I have to say that
Speaker 4: it definitely it raised a lot of concerns, especially on
Speaker 4: his behalf, but there was really not much to do.
Speaker 4: Either we do this and we get married or we don't.
Speaker 4: And it's pretty black and white.
Speaker 1: You know, you and I are so similar because I
Speaker 1: also prepare to prenup for my ex fiance, and you know,
Speaker 1: I had this amazing lawyer that just really wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure that I was protected and my girls were protected.
Speaker 3: Yes, you have kids, so that's yes, I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just my you know, the opportunity for me
Speaker 1: to make a lot of money in the future with
Speaker 1: just real estate and working in a lot of different states.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure that I was going
Speaker 1: to be safe. He was married twice before, he's got
Speaker 1: a lot of kids, and so I just didn't want
Speaker 1: you know, I was trying to be optimistic, but I
Speaker 1: also needed to be protective of my own self. And
Speaker 1: you know, it was interesting how he had the prenup
Speaker 1: for a while and I was just always like, like
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: I was like, you can read it and sign it
Speaker 2: whenever you want.
Speaker 3: Did you guys, what was the conversation Like prior to that, there.
Speaker 2: Wasn't a conversation. I just wasn't. I was like, here,
Speaker 2: here's the prenup. It's coming to your way.
Speaker 3: Did he know there was a prenup coming?
Speaker 2: I mean I didn't.
Speaker 1: Again, like it wasn't like pumpkins and prenups like you know,
Speaker 1: It's like I literally went to I went to the
Speaker 1: lawyer and then afterwards, I said, you know, oh, there's
Speaker 1: going to be you know, a letter coming your way
Speaker 1: and you just want to check it out, and you know,
Speaker 1: see what the situation was. And it just really put
Speaker 1: me off. It really put me off that someone wouldn't
Speaker 1: want me, someone that wanted to marry me so badly
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to make sure that I was protected
Speaker 1: and provide for that really really bothered me. I think
Speaker 1: it really, I was just like what I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like an on and off switch.
Speaker 2: Like I just am like the mint.
Speaker 1: If I find if I feel like any fear, I'm
Speaker 1: like fight or flight, I'm like.
Speaker 4: Nope, yeah, no, I hear you're closed. I'm so used
Speaker 4: to that fight or flight or freeze feeling. It's insane.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I just wonder though, Like I remember
Speaker 4: my you know, the conversation. Obviously it was like there
Speaker 4: was you know, questions of do I not trust you
Speaker 4: know him, and all of that, and obviously you know,
Speaker 4: this is separate from love. Money does not equal love,
Speaker 4: and that is something that I think it's hard to
Speaker 4: and still is for me to this day. You know,
Speaker 4: back in the day, I thought I can control people
Speaker 4: with my money, and you know, obviously that is not
Speaker 4: the case it and that has a lot to do
Speaker 4: also with the way I was raised. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I do know. I've been in therapy my
Speaker 4: whole life. But at the end of the day, like
Speaker 4: I and I guess how the lines can be blurred
Speaker 4: and I understand and I don't understand, but I can
Speaker 4: have a little bit of a compassion, you know, for
Speaker 4: that other person. But for someone to just call off
Speaker 4: an engagement because you're wanting to protect your assets and
Speaker 4: you're it's something that we don't get our money handed
Speaker 4: to us, like we work our asses off money, and
Speaker 4: I know it ain't easy, and I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. Yeah, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1: There's no brand of money Tree, no house wives everywhere.
Speaker 3: Regardless if I come from. But my parents are very
Speaker 3: protective over I am.
Speaker 4: Well over eighteen, I'm forty years old, and I also
Speaker 4: have my own ego and pride, like I'm not going
Speaker 4: to ask mommy and Daddy for anything I never have, right.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because a lot of people are, you know, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're talking you're talking about prenups like Kelly, and they're like,
Speaker 1: is it just for you know, women in their like
Speaker 1: forties and fifties, and it's there was a study that
Speaker 1: millennials forty seven percent of millennials are getting prenups.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so they should.
Speaker 4: Everyone should get a prenup if if, if it's worth it,
Speaker 4: because it's not worth it if you guys are both
Speaker 4: not you know, you're just But if.
Speaker 2: You've made a little money.
Speaker 1: There was twenty thousand dollars That money at twenty years old,
Speaker 1: if you put it away for yourself could be a
Speaker 1: lot of money. It's you know, so you know, I
Speaker 1: think that it's just really I think it's really important.
Speaker 1: You know, Listen, I made the mistake. I should have
Speaker 1: talked to my ex earlier.
Speaker 2: I did. I made a mistake. I did. I made
Speaker 2: a mistake.
Speaker 1: I should have had like a more open conversation with him.
Speaker 1: I just have never had an open conversation with anyone
Speaker 1: about finances outside of my father. And so he's deceased,
Speaker 1: so he's not available. Hi Dad, love you say mom? Hi.
Speaker 1: So you know, I I should have probably had more
Speaker 1: of a you know, different narrative, but I am actually
Speaker 1: glad that I didn't have one at the beginning, because
Speaker 1: I may have. I may have been like, well, think
Speaker 1: about it, or he might have like maybe taught said, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't worry about it. We're gonna have a traditional marriage,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be like, Okay, so if we get
Speaker 1: divorced or what if I die, I'm taking care of
Speaker 1: your kids.
Speaker 3: It's not comfortable to have these conversations.
Speaker 4: And then, by the way, it's the easiest thing to
Speaker 4: do is not to have it, right, Like I mean really,
Speaker 4: but then at the end of the day you start
Speaker 4: to understand that, okay, well, without the communication, things are
Speaker 4: going to either blow up or have cause resentment. And
Speaker 4: I think this prenup definitely caused resentment within our marriage absolutely.
Speaker 2: So what about the press.
Speaker 1: You've been through the press and it hasn't been easy
Speaker 1: for you. So what did you think about the press,
Speaker 1: you know, talking about your prenup.
Speaker 4: Well, let me first say that because of the prenup,
Speaker 4: my divorce was pretty easy, right, So there was like
Speaker 4: that is the positive of it all, Like it was
Speaker 4: very lean and clear as far as what was happening
Speaker 4: and the next steps moving forward. So that in itself
Speaker 4: saved a lot of headache and stress. Now, as far
Speaker 4: as press goes, I mean, I mean, I've been on
Speaker 4: Dancing with the Stars. I was on it since two
Speaker 4: thousand and seven, never and I did twenty six seasons
Speaker 4: of it, and I went, I mean, I've been on.
Speaker 3: The press for my weight.
Speaker 4: I've been on the press for my all of my
Speaker 4: twenty six partners I've hooked up with, which is all
Speaker 4: a lie, right, like no, not even I mean Wayne
Speaker 4: Newton maybe, but kidding, but like I love it. It's
Speaker 4: this was this too shall pass like it's so, I mean,
Speaker 4: there's gonna be bigger and better news soon.
Speaker 3: So like that was what I was.
Speaker 4: It's not so much that it was more like for me,
Speaker 4: I get affected still and I can't wait till the
Speaker 4: day I don't, but I do get I care about
Speaker 4: what other people think of me, and I'm not even
Speaker 4: gonna lie.
Speaker 3: Like this is yeah, this is what I do.
Speaker 1: My my my publicist, you know, when he broke the
Speaker 1: news to the press and talked about the prenup, you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I've had such bad press,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I get great press from my work,
Speaker 1: but for my housewives life. It's like you're crazy, you're nuts,
Speaker 1: you're stupid, you're an idiot, You're this, you're that, you're awful.
Speaker 1: And I literally was like, he was like, shut your
Speaker 1: phone off and just go to bed. And I was
Speaker 1: actually getting a chronic while we were organizing this, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm serendipitous. I'm like I'm getting a colonic
Speaker 1: time to time to sever the ties. And uh so
Speaker 1: he was just like, shut your phone off, and so
Speaker 1: I did. And in the morning, people were like clapping
Speaker 1: and I would I was getting like all these clapping emojis,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, oh my, oh my.
Speaker 3: Gosh, like did you not say what was going to happen.
Speaker 1: I'm just so used to people saying that I'm nuts
Speaker 1: and crazy and stupid and idiot and awful and ugly
Speaker 1: and fat and whatever it is, and that I you know,
Speaker 1: I was just shell shocked.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: And then I thought to myself, oh my god, like
Speaker 1: I could actually help people like navigate these waters because
Speaker 1: to your point, you know, it's just the transparency is
Speaker 1: just it.
Speaker 2: It makes everything.
Speaker 1: It's like everyone talks about like you know, your partner's
Speaker 1: your best friend open up to them. Well okay, so
Speaker 1: you're opening up to them on all these different levels
Speaker 1: and telling them all these things, but then when it
Speaker 1: comes to your finances, it's like, oh, just whatever happens, devil,
Speaker 1: make care. And you know I I I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: for him, and I'm just so grateful for the press
Speaker 1: to be so proactive and supportive of me.
Speaker 2: It really meant a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm not shocked by that, just because, like,
Speaker 4: especially in today's age, I think maybe back in maybe
Speaker 4: the renaissance ages, people would have been like, who are you,
Speaker 4: especially as a woman, you know, But I totally am
Speaker 4: with you. I think this is why I'm People are
Speaker 4: like you overshare and I'm like okay, but I know
Speaker 4: I'm helping somebody feel like they're not alone regardless, And
Speaker 4: I think that's why, you know, I have chosen to
Speaker 4: talk about it with respect still to my ex obviously
Speaker 4: about my everything. I've talked about my mental health. I've
Speaker 4: talked about my sexual assault situation, being molested as little girl,
Speaker 4: like I have. I've been an open book and I
Speaker 4: know that I when I was a little girl going
Speaker 4: through that, I wish I could actually hear someone else
Speaker 4: who had a platform talk about it as well.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that I'm learning, I'm trying. I have a
Speaker 1: therapist now, which i've I've had a little on and
Speaker 1: off therapist. But I'm like, okay, how do I be
Speaker 1: a queen? And she's like, no more, try to be
Speaker 1: a queen, Kelly. She's like this, you need to get
Speaker 1: raw and real, and like, what is it that's making
Speaker 1: you attracted to these kind of men? And why would
Speaker 1: you even put yourself in a position like that? You
Speaker 1: have You've raised two girls on your own, You've survived,
Speaker 1: you know, the wrath of you know, wildness for so
Speaker 1: many years and still made it through the other side.
Speaker 1: Like why would you put your thoughtslf through this? And
Speaker 1: like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: Well? Why what was your answer? Why do you attract
Speaker 3: men like that?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: You said it in one of your in one of
Speaker 1: your articles, I think it was. I think it was
Speaker 1: like online you just said, like you picked, You're the
Speaker 1: wrong picker.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I'm a bad picker because of the abuse
Speaker 4: I dealt with as a little girl, that my definition
Speaker 4: of a man wasn't necessarily stable, right, So my mother
Speaker 4: and father divorced when I was two. My very first
Speaker 4: memory as a kid was seeing my father with another woman,
Speaker 4: and then it just then I got molested when I
Speaker 4: was about six years old, when to testify againstim at nine,
Speaker 4: and then from then on my whole high school career,
Speaker 4: I dated abusive men because that was my normal, right
Speaker 4: was my normal was that there was no normalcy as
Speaker 4: far as what a healthy relationship is. And when there
Speaker 4: was a good man that came or across my path,
Speaker 4: I was turned off by him because that was not
Speaker 4: something I was used to. But this is why I'm
Speaker 4: choosing to be single and celibate, because I need to
Speaker 4: retrain my brain and that takes time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that that's you. And you're
Speaker 2: sober as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, for six years.
Speaker 2: That's incredible.
Speaker 1: I mean that's so good because you're we're talking about
Speaker 1: the transparency. We're talking about that clarity, and now you're
Speaker 1: able to like see what is good for you and
Speaker 1: for your life, and.
Speaker 4: Which is also really hard because I also left the
Speaker 4: show for similar reasons. Like when I'm when I chose
Speaker 4: to be sober, my I became so clear that I
Speaker 4: was no wonder I was drinking and numbing you.
Speaker 1: Know, and were you numbing because of the pain from
Speaker 1: the from the.
Speaker 3: Pain in general?
Speaker 4: If I never felt my feelings like it was and
Speaker 4: when you don't feel your feelings though, it's easily said
Speaker 4: than done, for sure, And I'm still currently I'm a
Speaker 4: work in progress. I'm not perfect intellectually, I get it,
Speaker 4: But when it comes down to it, I am a
Speaker 4: professional number, even if it's not through alcohol or whatever. Like,
Speaker 4: I can numb through work and I can be so
Speaker 4: busy if I want to that I don't have to
Speaker 4: ever face my feelings. And I think that is an
Speaker 4: actual in society today, what we're all doing, to be
Speaker 4: quite honest.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I hope not doing that. I work
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 3: How busy are you, Cherry?
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm doing that, Oh my god.
Speaker 3: One thing at a time, a forever thing.
Speaker 2: Like moment with you. I'm gonna pay you a hard
Speaker 2: dollars when we're done.
Speaker 3: No, I don't need your money, girl.
Speaker 1: What do you What do you think of the double
Speaker 1: standard for women and for prenups.
Speaker 4: I don't like I haven't really thought too much about it.
Speaker 4: I really don't think it's our problem. I think it's
Speaker 4: the person who's receiving the prenup, which if it's the woman,
Speaker 4: then it's the person she's marrying, and it depends on
Speaker 4: that person's ego. Like, I don't know, I think people
Speaker 4: are very I think especially now, like I said earlier,
Speaker 4: people congratulate you for it. I think it's important to
Speaker 4: uh protect yourself regardless of who it is, a woman,
Speaker 4: a man, whatever. If you don't go by any gender,
Speaker 4: so be it. Like this is just life and we
Speaker 4: work too hard for us to give that away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's insane.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like the whole thing is just
Speaker 1: you know, I actually took I mean, I'm not celibate,
Speaker 1: but I did take the summer off. And I have
Speaker 1: so many of my friends asking, you know, oh, when
Speaker 1: are you gonna start dating again? And I actually started
Speaker 1: going on a couple of.
Speaker 3: Dates, which was like I hate that question.
Speaker 2: It was just really it was really awful.
Speaker 1: I'm like it doesn't you know, they're like, oh, she's
Speaker 1: just like would someone say like kick the dust off
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, I'm sorry, what dust?
Speaker 1: Yeah, plane break, so there's no dust anywhere near me
Speaker 1: or around me or perfectionism.
Speaker 4: Perfectionism is attact just like mine. That's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2: Do you think do you think the prenupts are unromantic?
Speaker 4: No, it's real. And I wish if I could have
Speaker 4: done it all over again. I wish I was because
Speaker 4: like anybody, I'm sure and I think, like you, I
Speaker 4: don't don't want to speak for you, but it was
Speaker 4: uncomfortable for me to have this conversation and we went
Speaker 4: to couple's therapy the moment we got back together the
Speaker 4: second time around, like the moment, like that was a requirement,
Speaker 4: it was non negotiable, no matter, you don't go to it.
Speaker 4: For me, I don't believe in just going to therapy
Speaker 4: when there's problems. You go before there's problems, because then
Speaker 4: you can really, you know, have those conversations because you're
Speaker 4: still at the honeymoon phase and god knows how long
Speaker 4: that lasts before you know, you talk about marriage. And look,
Speaker 4: there was a lot of red flags for me, and
Speaker 4: I think selfishly, I wanted to see if I could
Speaker 4: get married. I don't know if I was ready either,
Speaker 4: you know. And it was like a production. I made
Speaker 4: it literally, I made it like a Dancing with the
Speaker 4: Star's scene, like I worked with Mindy Weiss. We tried
Speaker 4: to micromanage her. It was a whole thing like this
Speaker 4: was there's just so many red flags.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I also had red flags.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting you say that because now, like looking back,
Speaker 1: I am saying like, Okay, you know, I probably my
Speaker 1: own self was probably telling my myself like, if he
Speaker 1: doesn't sign the pre nup, you're gonna be fine because
Speaker 1: he doesn't really want to be with you. My you know,
Speaker 1: my red flags were just you know, to be hundred
Speaker 1: percent transparent. And this is not to be a huge dig,
Speaker 1: but his his life with his ex wives was so
Speaker 1: messy and it was such a distraction and I just
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with it, and I just could.
Speaker 2: It was just messy.
Speaker 3: What did your kids think about him?
Speaker 1: My kids, my kids, you know, you know, I'm so lucky, Cheryl,
Speaker 1: so lucky. I just have a really great kids. And
Speaker 1: they you know, they've been through a lot. I mean
Speaker 1: they've been through they've been through the you know, Housewives,
Speaker 1: which is really really not the show was hard, but
Speaker 1: just like you know how some of the housewives can
Speaker 1: just be like just denamous. They're twenty four and twenty
Speaker 1: six and they've just like grown to be like such
Speaker 1: amazing humans and I'm so proud of that that you,
Speaker 1: oh my god, thank you appreciate that. So some of
Speaker 1: the red flags were just like you know, messiness with
Speaker 1: you know, with his his exes.
Speaker 4: Did he ever sign a prenup with them?
Speaker 1: He tried to post up with one of them. But
Speaker 1: you know, I just was that was just messy and
Speaker 1: it was just too much. I didn't want anything to
Speaker 1: do with it. And that was something because I love children,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, if you can't get along with me,
Speaker 1: you can't get along with anybody. I mean, I am
Speaker 1: the most easy going person, but if I don't like something,
Speaker 1: I'm like.
Speaker 3: Er good for you.
Speaker 4: Like we all have that, right, We all have an intuition.
Speaker 4: The question is if you follow it or not? You know,
Speaker 4: and you try and release control, because we can't control
Speaker 4: anybody but ourselves.
Speaker 1: Actually, I think that because I travel so much, and
Speaker 1: you know, I work in all these different cities and
Speaker 1: I travel a lot, and I have a very unusual
Speaker 1: work schedule, I think that, you know, he kind of
Speaker 1: thought that I wasn't paying attention and that what you know,
Speaker 1: that it was just kind of like, Okay, I actually
Speaker 1: was paying attention.
Speaker 2: I just was like not interested. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't like that kid.
Speaker 1: If I can handle two, if I can raise two
Speaker 1: kids and provide for two kids and not have all
Speaker 1: I've said this million times, like I don't mind if
Speaker 1: you have baggage, like you know, shebaiton a little gooch,
Speaker 1: you know, like the Farrel edition.
Speaker 3: It's not like emotional baggage.
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't have the keys for a
Speaker 1: storage locker. I'm not going to the storage locker. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is just not my vibe. I I can't do that.
Speaker 1: It's not happening.
Speaker 2: And he worked.
Speaker 3: Did he make money?
Speaker 2: He worked?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, he worked, he weren't so you know he worked,
Speaker 2: but you know I was.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I just have the more of more
Speaker 1: of an earning potential. Let's talk Let's talk about that
Speaker 1: again too, about like just being with men who you
Speaker 1: know married to men, being with men who who you
Speaker 1: know make less, like because I have done, I've.
Speaker 4: Only been with men that make less. And I think
Speaker 4: that's my issue with control. So I don't know if
Speaker 4: I could ever. I mean, I'm trying to change that
Speaker 4: because I don't. I think that there is a psychological
Speaker 4: issue there that I've been again working on with my therapist.
Speaker 4: But I am a controlling woman obviously, and I am
Speaker 4: and this is a pattern for me, right, So I've
Speaker 4: never not even I've never dated anybody who was more
Speaker 4: successful than me.
Speaker 1: So I've only dated a couple younger guys. The majority
Speaker 1: of the handful of guys that I've dated have been
Speaker 1: extremely successful. So except the namic one of them was
Speaker 1: younger and he was like starting off in finance and
Speaker 1: he had an amazing job. But most of them my
Speaker 1: serious guys. I mean it's different, like guys you hang
Speaker 1: out with. That's different, but like you know, real boyfriends.
Speaker 1: They were all really really successful, but they you know,
Speaker 1: someone when amen younger, And you know, it's funny because
Speaker 1: when I was with them, I would be like, you know,
Speaker 1: I would be so I was like so like attracted
Speaker 1: to the love and having the best time, but like
Speaker 1: in the back of my head, I was always thinking, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm provided for my kids, I've done this
Speaker 1: all this on my own.
Speaker 2: Who is going to take care of me?
Speaker 1: And sometimes it gets exhausting, Cheryl to be like constantly
Speaker 1: like sometimes I feel like the little hamster on the wheel,
Speaker 1: just like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can do it.
Speaker 3: I can do it.
Speaker 2: You know, I can do these places. I can get
Speaker 2: this next deal, I can bring this. I can do that.
Speaker 3: On my head, I know, I get it.
Speaker 4: I mean, this transition from this being on the show
Speaker 4: and having consistent work too then choosing not to be
Speaker 4: on it has been It is still hard. It's hard,
Speaker 4: you know, right, But going back to the reason why
Speaker 4: I think for me, I thought I could. I thought
Speaker 4: that if I made more, I was more successful, that
Speaker 4: they wouldn't cheat on me. And that's the big fear
Speaker 4: of mine, is infidelity.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's really funny, because you know it's
Speaker 1: so funny is because I would say, like, whatever if
Speaker 1: like we get into a fight or whatever, and they'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I just met this twenty three year old.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, son them a book and I'll
Speaker 2: sign it. Awful. I'm awful. I could be awful.
Speaker 1: I know I'm not, but awful no.
Speaker 3: I I hear.
Speaker 4: I mean, I look at hear what I've been saying,
Speaker 4: Like I'm a full on control freak. Like I would
Speaker 4: like to say I'm recovering, but I'm not recovering yet
Speaker 4: I'm still there.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm not the way the way.
Speaker 1: The book that I was going to send to them
Speaker 1: was called it Can Make You Hot, So wow.
Speaker 2: It's worse.
Speaker 3: I'm sure they would find that I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't make I'm sorry. I'm just being honest. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just I just need to be transparent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: Do you think this.
Speaker 1: Stereotype of men needing to make money will ever go away?
Speaker 3: It's just not true.
Speaker 4: So people could still live in the renaissance ages, that's fine,
Speaker 4: but I mean everyone evolves and so does this world,
Speaker 4: and that honestly just isn't true anymore. So my I think,
Speaker 4: and I also know that, like my mother was the
Speaker 4: breadwinner in both of her marriages, so I don't know
Speaker 4: anything else.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because like my daughters, you know, they're twenty
Speaker 1: four and twenty six, and they're you know, some of
Speaker 1: their friends are single parents.
Speaker 2: And my youngest daughter.
Speaker 1: She's like, Mommy, you're single, but you're not like you
Speaker 1: were divorced but separated, but you're not really like a
Speaker 1: divorce mom. Like, no, I'm not marry that means I said.
Speaker 1: She goes, well, we're not raised like that, because you're
Speaker 1: like the mom and the dad. We weren't really raised
Speaker 1: like that. But she's like, other moms are not like you,
Speaker 1: and they are looking for these men and desperate for
Speaker 1: these men. And when I go on these dates, these
Speaker 1: guys are like they want to know what vacation were
Speaker 1: going on. I'm like, vacation, like I don't have timeification Like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, you just asked me. You
Speaker 1: were just complaining about a woman going on vacation with you,
Speaker 1: and then now you're mad at me because I'm working
Speaker 1: so I can't see you until Thursday.
Speaker 4: How long was your break from your breakup with your
Speaker 4: ex that you were going to marry to dating?
Speaker 2: So we broke up at the end end of June.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then when did you start dating again?
Speaker 2: I'm just recently in the past, like a couple of minutes,
Speaker 2: got it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: No, I like, I'm not looking for anybody. I am
Speaker 4: first of all, the fact that I'm alone, like I
Speaker 4: live alone with my friend Siet. I'm like, and I
Speaker 4: love this life too much. My therapist is like, I'm
Speaker 4: a little worried about you. It's been three years, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, listen, you know, for every narcissist you date,
Speaker 4: supposedly you need to give back to yourself.
Speaker 3: Like two years.
Speaker 4: This is from doctor Romney, and I'm like, well, I
Speaker 4: still got a couple more years.
Speaker 1: Like I'm so if you can't drink and you can't
Speaker 1: and you're not doing to have sex, what about like dance.
Speaker 3: Lessons I've retired, remember, I know, but it's a little
Speaker 3: dirty dancing.
Speaker 4: I mean I could teach you it's a door but
Speaker 4: er no, I'm talking about you and your boyfriend or
Speaker 4: whoever your day.
Speaker 2: Have like poor let it's like hideous.
Speaker 1: Please I would love that, but no, but you don't
Speaker 1: want what about like just like.
Speaker 4: I have zero interest in dating. I'm not looking for anyone.
Speaker 4: I am definitely I know I'm looking for me at
Speaker 4: the moment. Like I'm currently trying to figure out my
Speaker 4: identity was so outside of me. The show was my identity.
Speaker 4: Everything that was so not uh, something that you could
Speaker 4: definitely just take.
Speaker 3: Out of my life.
Speaker 4: I don't want that feeling ever again in my life.
Speaker 4: Like I want to be able to find happiness within myself.
Speaker 4: And let me tell you, with a lot of the
Speaker 4: stuff that I've I guess not dealt with. It's all
Speaker 4: coming up right now at the moment, and so I
Speaker 4: still have a lot to work on within myself before
Speaker 4: I even am interested in dating. I've never been on
Speaker 4: a dating app. I have zero interest, none of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I actually went on dating app the summer and I
Speaker 1: talked about in my last podcast, and my housewives's nemesis
Speaker 1: end up dating him.
Speaker 2: So that was hideous.
Speaker 3: Is your housewife's nemesis.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to mention her.
Speaker 3: Okay, no need.
Speaker 2: To have a certain age.
Speaker 1: Anyway, back to the show, pubs, let's talk about setting
Speaker 1: me up.
Speaker 2: Let's get serious, you know, like now that I'm dating. Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm done.
Speaker 1: I had my time, took a summer off, I'm studying
Speaker 1: Texas life. I mean, I'm dating, but like I want
Speaker 1: to date with intention.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, so then you should get rid of the
Speaker 4: person you're talking to first, then we can talk.
Speaker 3: Are you into dancers?
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know how to dance, but I
Speaker 1: would learn how to dance.
Speaker 3: Opposites a tract? Okay, tell me what what are like?
Speaker 3: What what are.
Speaker 4: The physical features that you want versus what type of
Speaker 4: personality traits are you looking for?
Speaker 2: I would like a head, shoulder, sneeze, and toes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, nowadays you never know, No what am.
Speaker 2: I looking for? I'm looking for? You know?
Speaker 1: Actually it's funny because I don't really have like a
Speaker 1: specific body type, like my kids are, like, you don't
Speaker 1: really have a type. I've dated blondes, I've dated brunettes.
Speaker 1: I've dated shorter.
Speaker 3: Do they have to be fit?
Speaker 1: No, I've dated like some some chubbies. I've dated some
Speaker 1: like lean guys. I've dated like yeah, I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 4: How about personality traits? Is it okay if he was
Speaker 4: married before?
Speaker 1: Yes, just as long as doesn't not messy, Just as
Speaker 1: long as there's no like I hate my ex wife.
Speaker 2: She's calling me every day.
Speaker 1: It's like, you don't hate your ex wife, you want
Speaker 1: to talk to her if she's calling you every day?
Speaker 4: Are you avoidant or anxious attachment or secure attachment?
Speaker 2: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: These are really intense questions. Can I write these down?
Speaker 1: This's like an SAT question for like romance. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I am I think that I When I love, I like,
Speaker 1: really I have a lot of energy. I mean, you're
Speaker 1: you're talking to me, I'm like literally gonna leap out
Speaker 1: of the out of the screen.
Speaker 3: But like when it comes do you run away from committed?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 4: Are you scared? Or do you attached? Like do you
Speaker 4: like I'm anxious attachment.
Speaker 2: I'm like a wallaby.
Speaker 4: Joeyan like woo, yeah, okay, so you're so it supposedly
Speaker 4: statistics say I could be wrong here, but my therapist
Speaker 4: said this that anxious and avoidant always most of the
Speaker 4: time end up together.
Speaker 3: And my ex was avoidant and I'm very anxious.
Speaker 1: So so I mean all of those I have to
Speaker 1: actually look up all those different terms. I do not
Speaker 1: know your your Your emotional intelligence is a twelve and
Speaker 1: mine is a preschoolers.
Speaker 3: So I've been in therapy since I was five for
Speaker 3: obvious reasons. So that's why we just started.
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk to my therapist, like, there's some
Speaker 2: words I learned.
Speaker 3: Do you like?
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. She's very nice. She's actually so nice.
Speaker 2: She's like very warm with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what have you learned from yourself from being single?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 4: Well, the whole identity thing, you know. I said this
Speaker 4: on my during my goodbye speech with Tyra Banks when
Speaker 4: she was hosting the show a couple of years ago,
Speaker 4: and I was like this show has been my identity,
Speaker 4: and I'd like to say that it has now changed,
Speaker 4: because that for me was worse than my divorce was
Speaker 4: when I retired from the show, because it was a
Speaker 4: part of my life since I moved to La Like
Speaker 4: I went from Harlem, you know, being a starving competitive
Speaker 4: ballroom dancer with my partner slash boyfriend, and it was
Speaker 4: not a great healthy relationship whatsoever, to not even having
Speaker 4: a voice, to then having my own voice. And I
Speaker 4: still credit the show to this day for helping me
Speaker 4: with just finding my own voice, but then also that
Speaker 4: it's not my identity, you know, and having to separate
Speaker 4: that knowing that really the only that when people say
Speaker 4: you make me feel complete, that's a cracish like only
Speaker 4: you can make yourself feel complete, and that starts with
Speaker 4: self love, self care and prioritizing yourself and being selfish
Speaker 4: but in a good way, and all of that is
Speaker 4: what I'm currently learning.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're such a thoughtful person.
Speaker 1: I love that, and it's entirely just a beautiful I
Speaker 1: love her, just a beautiful human. Well, so are you,
Speaker 1: And I really appreciate that and I appreciate your honesty.
Speaker 2: Let's see what have I learned.
Speaker 1: I I've learned that sleeping in my bed alone is okay.
Speaker 1: I've learned that I actually really kind of like myself.
Speaker 2: I used to like not like myself.
Speaker 1: I used to be like, like everything that everyone's saying
Speaker 1: is is going through my head and I am.
Speaker 2: All those things.
Speaker 1: And I walk down the street, I would be like
Speaker 1: one of those people that's like, you know, I would
Speaker 1: see people and they.
Speaker 2: Would like pop up, be like you're crazy.
Speaker 1: I hate you because it's just like social media came
Speaker 1: out when I first started, so like that's just all
Speaker 1: I thought, and so I was just constantly in a
Speaker 1: sea of insecurity. And recently in the past, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I've had this crazy, wild awakening just you know,
Speaker 1: with all this new responsibility for myself and I had
Speaker 1: to move out in an apartment and try to find
Speaker 1: an apartment within a day and just really like taking
Speaker 1: control of my life overnight. I like felt just feel
Speaker 1: very very very proud of myself, which I never have ever.
Speaker 1: And it just feels really really good to feel proud,
Speaker 1: really good awesome.
Speaker 4: I mean, like talk about resilience right, like I mean
Speaker 4: fight flight or freeze to its finest what name three
Speaker 4: things about yourself that you love.
Speaker 1: My energy, my kindness and thoughtfulness towards others, and my
Speaker 1: ability to see the best in things.
Speaker 4: Now, name three physical traits you love about yourself that
Speaker 4: you love.
Speaker 1: I really like my hair, I really, I really. I
Speaker 1: hate my sorrisis.
Speaker 4: No, that's not part of it. That wasn't the question.
Speaker 4: Two more things, come on, two more.
Speaker 1: Okay, I really like my hair. My eyes look fired today.
Speaker 1: They're green, they do so I like those. And I
Speaker 1: love my teeth.
Speaker 4: Look at your cheekbones. You look snatched girl like. I
Speaker 4: would love to have your face structure.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. That was really
Speaker 2: nice and that was a nice exercise. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 1: Sorry to jump jump to another topic. I feel like
Speaker 1: we're like on like prenup ad D here, but what
Speaker 1: is what?
Speaker 2: Why are they so expensive? Why are these preanups so expensive?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean think about it. You're actually it's not
Speaker 4: that expensive. If you put everything into perspective, it's worth
Speaker 4: every single penny, especially if you're trying to save your
Speaker 4: life savings and you know whomever is attached to you,
Speaker 4: it's actually worth every penny to be quite honest. I
Speaker 4: don't regret it whatsoever. You know, why is its expensive
Speaker 4: because they can they can't charge that much because there's
Speaker 4: not a lot of people that work in this business.
Speaker 2: Right exactly.
Speaker 1: All right, guess what we are going to bring are
Speaker 1: guest the CEO and founder of Hello Prenup to talk
Speaker 1: more about all of this.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, Julia.
Speaker 5: So nice to see you both. Kelly. I also love
Speaker 5: your hair prenu.
Speaker 2: Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1: That's what we're just going to call you from now.
Speaker 1: I'm prenup fort the Julia call me.
Speaker 5: Call me whatever you want, Kelly.
Speaker 4: Said, Hello prenup, question mark or exclamation point or nothing.
Speaker 5: It's nothing, but I think point is great.
Speaker 3: I think so too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, Hello, peenup call me anytime.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, exactly exactly, visit helloprenup dot com anytime.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that, Julia. So we're talking all things prenup obviously.
Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl and I have both had some incredible
Speaker 1: journeys with our own prenups, which have been you know,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that I, you know, created prenup and Cheryl.
Speaker 2: Is for her past divorce. Why are these prenups so expensive?
Speaker 5: Well, they don't have to be you know, I think
Speaker 5: that number one. If you're going the traditional route and
Speaker 5: you're each hiring independent attorneys, that's fantastic. Obviously, that's not
Speaker 5: the least expensive way to go about it, right, attorneys
Speaker 5: have of high hourly rates and a lot of times
Speaker 5: if you don't walk into that engagement with an understanding
Speaker 5: of what you're looking for, there's going to be a
Speaker 5: lot of negotiation. Through a service like Hello, prenup. You know,
Speaker 5: we have flat rate pricing. We have flat rate pricing
Speaker 5: for the prenup alone, and then when you add on
Speaker 5: attorneys in forty five states, right, So there are ways
Speaker 5: to get a prenup that are affordable inaccessible to all.
Speaker 5: And that's you know, kind of the goal of my
Speaker 5: company and mission.
Speaker 4: What does that look like? What's successible mean like money
Speaker 4: whise range?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's five hundred and ninety nine dollars to
Speaker 5: use the platform, and then for representation with an attorney
Speaker 5: it's six hundred and ninety nine dollars. So ostensibly a
Speaker 5: couple can get a full prenup with two lawyers for
Speaker 5: under two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Wow, what is the difference between a prenup and
Speaker 1: a post up and our post nups?
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are post now?
Speaker 2: Are they? Do they really work?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Prenups should have worked alone.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes people get don't get a prenup and then
Speaker 1: they get a post up.
Speaker 5: Oh, got it exactly, So you know, post ups are fantastic.
Speaker 5: The main difference is a prenup has to be signed
Speaker 5: before you get married. If you do not get a
Speaker 5: prenup or you don't you start the prenup process, but
Speaker 5: you don't sign it before you get married. You can
Speaker 5: still get a post up if you have the option.
Speaker 5: A prenup is definitely more desirable. They're upheld more, they're
Speaker 5: more likely to be enforced. Some states are you know,
Speaker 5: questionable on whether or not they'll enforced post ups, whereas
Speaker 5: I think the vast majority of states full enforced prenups.
Speaker 5: And one of the things that's so great though about
Speaker 5: post ups is let's say you've been married for a
Speaker 5: period of time and you don't have a pre you
Speaker 5: didn't get a prenup. You can get a postup. You
Speaker 5: can realign and make sure that you're both you know,
Speaker 5: you have the same expectations. Sometimes things change in marriages too.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: Let's say this is a second marriage and you didn't
Speaker 5: get a prenup, but when off you starts a business, Well,
Speaker 5: let's sit down and talk about how that business should
Speaker 5: be held. Is that ours if we get a divorce
Speaker 5: in the future, or is that mine? Post up allows
Speaker 5: you to reassess and realign or.
Speaker 4: If, like all of a sudden, your partner makes more
Speaker 4: money than you. Yeah, are they allowed to do that?
Speaker 3: Like? Can they?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 5: Absolutely? And I think that it's if life changes or
Speaker 5: you know, if you know, you have kids and one
Speaker 5: party decides to stay home, that's an opportunity to say,
Speaker 5: all right, now I'm staying home, I'm not earning income,
Speaker 5: so I want to make sure that we reassess what
Speaker 5: we originally agreed to in our prenup where everything was
Speaker 5: going to be yours. I need to do that I'm protected, right,
Speaker 5: And so that's where you know, a post up, which
Speaker 5: is in some states it depends on which state you're in,
Speaker 5: is a modification to a prenup can be really beneficial.
Speaker 2: What should be in a pre nup?
Speaker 5: Well, you can contract almost anything you want. You can't
Speaker 5: contract to children, so you can't contracts. Yes, you can
Speaker 5: have succulents. I've never seen anyone contract.
Speaker 3: Is that true?
Speaker 4: Is that true what I said earlier about if they
Speaker 4: plant a succulent in California?
Speaker 3: Are you in California?
Speaker 5: I'm not in California, but hello, prenup operates in California
Speaker 5: forty five states.
Speaker 4: Is it true that if they plan a succulent, like,
Speaker 4: let's say I own the property and we did not
Speaker 4: get a prenup. Is it true that they can after
Speaker 4: a certain amount of years, that the person who planted
Speaker 4: the succulent, your partner, can actually fight and say that
Speaker 4: this is his property.
Speaker 5: I think the point that examples trying to make is
Speaker 5: that they now have earned some interest in that property.
Speaker 5: I think without a prenup, what you're doing is you're
Speaker 5: leaving it up to chance.
Speaker 4: Correct SHAREFF calls bush, and they favor the person who
Speaker 4: doesn't make as much money.
Speaker 3: I really believe that.
Speaker 1: What about what about dogs for babies? Are the range?
Speaker 1: Everybody is accident.
Speaker 4: She's gotten a huge fight about it, like it was crazy.
Speaker 4: I wish it was in the prenup, But he got
Speaker 4: me the dog when we were already married.
Speaker 5: Head clauses are really really popular.
Speaker 2: Ain't pet clause Okay, Yeah, you can.
Speaker 5: Decide on your pet custody. You can decide who's paying
Speaker 5: for what for the pet, and I think just aligning
Speaker 5: on those expectations is really important. What I always like
Speaker 5: to remind people is, like I always hear all like,
Speaker 5: prenups aren't romantic, Like it means you're planning for either
Speaker 5: childbirth exactly.
Speaker 4: I like, if I know, I was waiting for you
Speaker 4: to be like true story, I've never had a child.
Speaker 3: I can only assume I've had two.
Speaker 5: I've had a child, and I totally agree childbirth is
Speaker 5: not romantic. But you know, neither is the fact that
Speaker 5: if you don't have a prenup, you still have a
Speaker 5: prenup because it's just state legislature that is deciding how
Speaker 5: your assets get divided in divorce or death. So why
Speaker 5: are you leaving that up to chance? Why are you
Speaker 5: leaving that up to in your case, Cheryl, the state
Speaker 5: of California?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 5: Why are we not deciding what is best for us
Speaker 5: as a couple before we get married?
Speaker 3: Is it protocol?
Speaker 4: Like I have my attorney advice that I get at
Speaker 4: an attorney for my ax. Is that something that's like
Speaker 4: protocol or not protocol?
Speaker 3: But is that normal?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's completely normal, and I think it's
Speaker 5: very important to get legal advice. In certain states you
Speaker 5: are required to have an attorney for certain things, like
Speaker 5: in California, if you want to waive or modify spousal support,
Speaker 5: you must have an attorney. The other states you must
Speaker 5: have an attorney for, you know, again, certain conditions, And
Speaker 5: I think it's always advisable. Like if you're entering into
Speaker 5: a prenup and you are not sure what the default
Speaker 5: law would be if you didn't enter into the prenup,
Speaker 5: you don't know what those state requirements are, you should
Speaker 5: get legal advice.
Speaker 2: What about infidelity? How does that play out?
Speaker 3: And no one cares.
Speaker 2: I don't care about Carey anymore.
Speaker 4: So I'm the person involved cares the person who was
Speaker 4: being cheated on. Definitely, it's it's like, unfortunately, it's not.
Speaker 2: Like, oh he cheated on me. It's like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: that's not okay.
Speaker 3: No, it's not okay.
Speaker 1: Can you do an infidelity clause? Yes, I guess not
Speaker 1: New York, but you couldn't.
Speaker 3: You can not in California either.
Speaker 5: It depends on what state you're in, And infidelity clauses
Speaker 5: can be included in certain states. What I like to
Speaker 5: remind people is often like a prenup is just as
Speaker 5: much an emotional document as it is a legal one. Right,
Speaker 5: So just the mere act of including an infidelity clause
Speaker 5: in there, it means you had that conversation and you said, look,
Speaker 5: I'm okay with this or I'm not okay with this,
Speaker 5: but I'm not.
Speaker 4: Just morals, values and beliefs when you're marrying, and like,
Speaker 4: that's just like an obvious like, I mean, what would
Speaker 4: an infidelity clause look like?
Speaker 5: Exactly, Well, let's back up to your morals and beliefs. Right,
Speaker 5: that's the point of a.
Speaker 2: Pre cheated on me. He's a joke, he gets nothing.
Speaker 5: It's important.
Speaker 4: Can add where a lot of cut their penis off
Speaker 4: or that is that okay?
Speaker 5: In the that is illegal and you can be like Lorena, Yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean you can define infidelity and you can define
Speaker 5: a financial penalty for infidelity. It's not enforceable in all states,
Speaker 5: but yeah, they're very popular clauses, I think.
Speaker 1: So if you cheat on me, you get ten thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: So hello, that's going to be way more than that girl,
Speaker 1: I would hope, meaning like.
Speaker 3: Or you have to give me a million dollars. This
Speaker 3: is like you choose, I think I think a lot
Speaker 3: of here's a succulent.
Speaker 5: People are often afraid, you know, they're afraid to talk
Speaker 5: about a preno because they feel like it's scary.
Speaker 3: It's scary.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I and I understand why. I mean, Cheryl,
Speaker 5: you've had one when you were going into this process, Like,
Speaker 5: how did you approach it with your fiance at the time.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was there was no right way to
Speaker 4: do it, And to be honest, I wish I would
Speaker 4: have had I wish we would have discussed this more
Speaker 4: therapy when we were in therapy. But yeah, this was
Speaker 4: a discussion that also my parents had for them as well,
Speaker 4: like this was important and again this shouldn't have gotten
Speaker 4: it shouldn't. I mean, of course it's emotional, absolutely, and
Speaker 4: I have to say when it was time to sign everything,
Speaker 4: it wasn't necessarily the easiest, like with we had someone
Speaker 4: there obviously to what are they called again when when
Speaker 4: they're observing they have to be there too? Sure yea yeah,
Speaker 4: and it was quite like intense, you know, but uh, yeah,
Speaker 4: there's just the sooner the better, and try to talk
Speaker 4: about it before you hand them the prenup.
Speaker 1: Ideally, I think too, Like, you know, my father, he
Speaker 1: passed away a year and a half ago, and I
Speaker 1: think that if my father had met my ex, which
Speaker 1: they did, he would have said, if you you know,
Speaker 1: a what are your intentions with my daughter? Not to
Speaker 1: sound like all Jane Austen, but you know, what are
Speaker 1: your intentions? And if you do have any intentions, you're
Speaker 1: going to sign a prenum because I am the daughter
Speaker 1: of a lawyer, and I think that would have voutedly
Speaker 1: been a better time. Yeah, so that would have probably been.
Speaker 1: But you know, like when Julie, how do you like,
Speaker 1: how do you go? I mean I did not talk
Speaker 1: about it in a with my therapist. I literally just
Speaker 1: went to this amazing matrimonial lawyer in New York who
Speaker 1: is unbelievable, and she was such a maternal figure and
Speaker 1: was like, I'm very she was very very worried about me,
Speaker 1: very worried, and she was like, here's here, we have
Speaker 1: to lay this out. And she's like, if anything happened
Speaker 1: to you, he could get all this money and your kids,
Speaker 1: you know, it would be it wouldn't be good. And
Speaker 1: I got really, really freaked out, and I was I like,
Speaker 1: I literally turned me off the minute that I found
Speaker 1: out that I wasn't being provided and protected that I
Speaker 1: would have potentially been exploited.
Speaker 2: And so what are your thought?
Speaker 1: What are your How could I have? How could I
Speaker 1: have changed that? How could I have not saying that
Speaker 1: I want to go back or do anything, but like, like,
Speaker 1: I made a mistake, I'd handled it the wrong way.
Speaker 1: So how could I have Like, you know, for the
Speaker 1: for everyone out there, for like the young you know,
Speaker 1: millennials at forty seven percent, they're getting prenups, Like, how
Speaker 1: do you have that conversation in a way that's like palatable?
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, well I would say third date, second glass
Speaker 5: of wine.
Speaker 3: Three date.
Speaker 5: Wow, third date, second glass of wines.
Speaker 4: On your age, right, Like depends on what you're looking for,
Speaker 4: because like listen, when I eventually date, I'm in my
Speaker 4: I'm forty, Like yes, absolutely, third date.
Speaker 3: But people in their twenties same.
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, I mean I think it's the sentiment, right,
Speaker 5: you're having a conversation about what you want out of life.
Speaker 5: I mean, if you're in your twenties and you're just
Speaker 5: kind of dating for sport and you are not intending
Speaker 5: to get married. You're not serious, right, It's obviously a
Speaker 5: very different conversation, and you should wait until you're ready
Speaker 5: you're in that space in life. But I do think
Speaker 5: that you know, if you are dating because you want
Speaker 5: to find your person and you want to get married,
Speaker 5: especially as women, I mean, why should we be embarrassed
Speaker 5: to bring up the conversation, right?
Speaker 4: I think it's like it's kind of like I was
Speaker 4: scared for me about his reaction, like he was, you know,
Speaker 4: and that wasn't so much about like scared. I also
Speaker 4: wonder I wish I would have done this. I wish
Speaker 4: I would have educated myself about the state I was
Speaker 4: living in and what that required even before, Like what like,
Speaker 4: let me just read through this textbook of information or
Speaker 4: have someone explain it to me first of all, what
Speaker 4: a prenup is, why I would want to get a prenup,
Speaker 4: what that exactly means, and what does it mean for
Speaker 4: the state of California. Like, I think that is so
Speaker 4: important to educate yourself first. Because I had I'm still
Speaker 4: finding out things that I never knew.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what this podcast is all about, is
Speaker 1: people looking for love and that's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1: We're trying to educate and you know, show that there's
Speaker 1: there are solutions and that you know, you don't have
Speaker 1: to be worried about protecting yourself and you know you
Speaker 1: can provide them.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like they always say, like men are supposed to
Speaker 1: provide and protect, Well, they haven't for me, so I'm
Speaker 1: going to do it for myself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the regardless of the gender, you have to protect yourself.
Speaker 5: Yeah. And I think information is power, right, Yes, you know,
Speaker 5: the fear of the unknown is oftentimes the issue when
Speaker 5: it comes to the prenups, especially when you're talking Cheryl
Speaker 5: about state law and educating yourself and really understanding what
Speaker 5: goes into a prenup and what the process is. I mean,
Speaker 5: one of the reasons we started Hello Prenup was because
Speaker 5: we wanted to offer free information so that anybody could
Speaker 5: go to the website, choose their state and read all
Speaker 5: about it. Right, there's no barrier to entry, and I
Speaker 5: think it's really important to educate yourself but also to
Speaker 5: feel empowered by the process. The process should be one
Speaker 5: that is, you know, you're both participating. It's not one
Speaker 5: person serving a prenup. On the other you're each protecting
Speaker 5: your interests. I think in the case where there's family money,
Speaker 5: you know, there's a lot of pressure from parents. But
Speaker 5: I think that's an opportunity in the conversation of bringing
Speaker 5: up a prenup to say this is really important for
Speaker 5: my family, right, and you're relieving the pressure from yourself.
Speaker 5: I think in.
Speaker 4: Case also though, the family should have their own trusts, right, like,
Speaker 4: so that they're protected in general, right.
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes no trust don't take a second, so it
Speaker 1: takes a while to put put a trust together. And
Speaker 1: that's actually what happened to me too. That's another reason
Speaker 1: I had to get a prenupp. But so the prenups
Speaker 1: are not just for the person, they're also for the relationship.
Speaker 2: Can you just talk a little bit more about that, Julia.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, So a prenup is an opportunity. It's an
Speaker 5: opportunity to have those life conversations and set yourself up
Speaker 5: by building that foundation. A prenup is an opportunity to
Speaker 5: have those life conversations. So depending on where you are
Speaker 5: in life, it's like do we want to have kids,
Speaker 5: like do we want to retire at forty? And like
Speaker 5: travel the world? Do we want a white pick it fence,
Speaker 5: or you know, if you have children from a prior marriage,
Speaker 5: are you going to financially support them? And what does
Speaker 5: that look like for our marriage? So it's an opportunity
Speaker 5: to have these really important life conversations. And I think
Speaker 5: it's also important to remember that, you know, all marriages
Speaker 5: end the either end in death or divorce.
Speaker 3: I think that sen's forever.
Speaker 5: Nothing's forever. So let's be really sober about that fact,
Speaker 5: and like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're taking time bomb. We're all gonna die folks.
Speaker 1: Sorry, So do you do you have any like statistics
Speaker 1: about like prenups, like helping people not get divorced, or
Speaker 1: do you have any any any kind of statistics that
Speaker 1: can Yeah?
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 5: With that, I think one that's really important is forty
Speaker 5: seven percent of millennials are who are married or engaged
Speaker 5: have a prenup.
Speaker 2: I know, I said that that's crazy.
Speaker 5: And what that tells me, like, millennials are getting married
Speaker 5: a little bit later in life, right, They're getting married
Speaker 5: in their early thirties. By the time they get married me, Yeah,
Speaker 5: we have assets to pretend millennial. Yeah, amazing me too.
Speaker 1: In it.
Speaker 5: It looks like a millennial. Okay, definitely, I.
Speaker 2: Act like one, Oh, really, what is that supposed to mean?
Speaker 2: You know, spirited, young, spirited.
Speaker 5: You have assets to protect, maybe you have debt, right,
Speaker 5: maybe you start.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah right.
Speaker 5: Domestically, it's really important to you know, to pay attention
Speaker 5: to those facts and protect yourself. And I think that
Speaker 5: millennials get that, and they're also looking to like not
Speaker 5: do what their parents did. Twenty four percent of millennials
Speaker 5: have divorced parents. Right, we've seen what divorce does to
Speaker 5: our families, Like, let's not repeat that in our own marriages.
Speaker 3: Can you name just.
Speaker 4: Three qualities as to what happens, like three things that
Speaker 4: are just not that could happen if you don't have
Speaker 4: a prenap just scare people, please, Well, you could lose.
Speaker 5: Half your assets, you could be responsible for half your
Speaker 5: partner's debt. You could have to split your inheritance.
Speaker 2: Tail no yeah, yeah, well no.
Speaker 5: People don't think about the inheritance piece. They're like, oh,
Speaker 5: it's inheritance, it must be mine. Well not, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: it could be considered part of the marital estate for sure.
Speaker 3: Get a pre ed up.
Speaker 2: That's right, I too, I like what Julia said too.
Speaker 1: And I think you know, the number, the forty seven
Speaker 1: percent is such a it's such a big number.
Speaker 2: But I really believe that.
Speaker 1: Not only are you know, are women and men getting
Speaker 1: married a little bit older, but that they are they
Speaker 1: are coming from a lot of you know, single single
Speaker 1: parents and being raised by single parents, and I think
Speaker 1: they just don't want to have that happen again. And
Speaker 1: do you think the prenups are helping us stay married
Speaker 1: longer or do you think it's just kind of like No,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just I was just curious. I mean,
Speaker 1: I didn't he didn't sign it, so I am not.
Speaker 1: I'm in this conversation.
Speaker 4: My marriage was two days long, so I don't know.
Speaker 4: No years two who's counting?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I do. I do, because when you
Speaker 5: think about it foundationally, you are setting yourself up to
Speaker 5: talk about the tough stuff before you get married. When
Speaker 5: people get engaged, they're all about the wedding, right, They're
Speaker 5: focused on the flowers, then the bridesmaid's dresses and the
Speaker 5: guest list and all of those things that, like over
Speaker 5: the course of a marriage are just irrelevant. And so
Speaker 5: if you have a prenup, you're sitting down and you
Speaker 5: are intentionally consciously having these conversations about what do we want,
Speaker 5: what are our life pals, like, how do we want
Speaker 5: to split finances? Do we want to have a joint
Speaker 5: bank account? If I start a business, is that my business?
Speaker 5: How are we going to fund that business? And I
Speaker 5: think that is really important, and especially if you're on
Speaker 5: your first marriage, like are we going to have kids?
Speaker 5: And like is one of us going to stay home
Speaker 5: and care for those children? These are all really important topics.
Speaker 5: I think Kelly, in your situation too, where I know
Speaker 5: you talked about how your fans wouldn't sign the prenup,
Speaker 5: I think that's such a red flat. The fact that
Speaker 5: he didn't want to sign the prenup tells you you're
Speaker 5: not aligned, You're not on the same page. What is
Speaker 5: he really in it for? Right? And so I think
Speaker 5: we need to view prenups as being this opportunity to
Speaker 5: of alignment.
Speaker 1: That's another time for bigger conversation. We were definitely not aligned.
Speaker 1: Julia Rogers from Hello prenapp call her any time. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2: Thank you ready to find yourself. I'm kidding exactly what yourself.
Speaker 4: On your on Hello, prenup, do you have like a questionnaire?
Speaker 4: I think would also help for people to literally the
Speaker 4: person who's giving the prenup or wanting the person to
Speaker 4: sign the prenup should have like what you just went through,
Speaker 4: like top twenty questions to ask even before you hire
Speaker 4: a prenup attorney. I think we need to make this game, Kelly.
Speaker 4: You know how they have those like love card games
Speaker 4: or like emotional games, Like we need to do questions
Speaker 4: to ask before even putting a ring on it, like
Speaker 4: for real.
Speaker 5: This is we have eeers. Oh yes, I love it.
Speaker 3: That's helpful.
Speaker 5: All the articles, all the information.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Julia, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5: This was so much fun. It was great to chat.
Speaker 3: With you both. Bye bye.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Cheryl is and she's so great. She's great, so great.
Speaker 1: She has such good energy and it does. I just
Speaker 1: love that she's.
Speaker 4: I honestly I bow down to any attorneys whatsoever they
Speaker 4: have to deal with this, because this ain't fun.
Speaker 1: But also just like the way that she's communicating, and
Speaker 1: I mean at the price point that you know, you
Speaker 1: can be transparent and be safe and protect and provide
Speaker 1: for yourself and also be in love.
Speaker 2: There's there's nothing wrong with having both.
Speaker 4: And like I said, you have to separate the two
Speaker 4: like money is not love whatsoever.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Thank you Julia for coming on the podcast and answering
Speaker 1: all of our questions about prenups. It was a lot
Speaker 1: of great information for the listeners to hear, and I
Speaker 1: hope if you knew nothing think about prenups that you're
Speaker 1: leaving the conversation with a little more knowledge. Cheryl, this
Speaker 1: was so great getting to chat with you. I know
Speaker 1: the listeners are going to get so much advice from
Speaker 1: both of us as they're looking for love.
Speaker 4: So if you guys are wanting some relationship or dating advice,
Speaker 4: or if you're single and ready to find love again,
Speaker 4: call us at one eight four four four I Do Pod.
Speaker 4: That's eight four four four four three six seven sixty three,
Speaker 4: or email us at ID pod at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 4: Follow us on Instagram at I Do Part two Pod,
Speaker 4: I Do Part two. That's the number two pod, I
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Speaker 4: is the main objective.