WEBVTT - Students — Bonus | Jenifer's Story

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning and if you haven't heard yet,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot has been happening with Betrayal. First, we'll be

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<v Speaker 1>back with season two of Betrayals starting May eighteenth. We

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<v Speaker 1>even have a sneak peek at the end of this episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Second Trial. Season one is being turned into a documentary.

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<v Speaker 1>More details on when and where it will launch, so

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<v Speaker 1>stay tuned on the feed for updates. Hundreds of Betrayal

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<v Speaker 1>listeners have reached out to betrayalpod dot com over the

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<v Speaker 1>past year to share personal stories about their own betrayals.

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<v Speaker 1>Others have written about knowing spend personally. Some of the

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<v Speaker 1>hardest letters to read have been from Spencer's former students.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been surprising that so many months after we launched Betrayal,

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<v Speaker 1>we are still receiving messages from graduates that encountered him

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<v Speaker 1>during his twenty plus years as a high school teacher.

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<v Speaker 1>We heard from many women over the last year who

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to share their experiences with Spencer, but also heard

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<v Speaker 1>from male students who were deeply affected, like Paul, Paul,

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<v Speaker 1>it's so nice to meet you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's nice to meet you as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you so much for listening to the podcast, of.

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<v Speaker 2>Course it was. It was definitely inlightening to hear you know,

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<v Speaker 2>more about what happened.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I'm curious as a former student, you know, you

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<v Speaker 3>knew this person pretty well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I knew Spencer extremely well. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he was like a mentor to me even beyond high school.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, herry the arrests, first of all, just

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of disbelief. Didn't really believe it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is this true? And then the arrest comes and it's like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I still am like, is it it really is?

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<v Speaker 2>Could this really be true? Like I just don't fully

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<v Speaker 2>believe it until really he's guilty, and then you come

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<v Speaker 2>out with the podcast, and that's you know, I jumped

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<v Speaker 2>right on, like I have to figure out and hear

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<v Speaker 2>for myself, like what what did he really do? Did

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<v Speaker 2>he really do these things? People are saying.

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<v Speaker 3>Right well, And that's one of the questions that I get.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, why do you need to know? But you

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<v Speaker 3>do when you know somebody or you think you know

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<v Speaker 3>somebody and then they turn out totally different. Don't you

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<v Speaker 3>want to find those answers?

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<v Speaker 2>Especially how well I knew him. After high school, I

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<v Speaker 2>met up with him past graduation. You know, I helped

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<v Speaker 2>him with his newer students and went back to the

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<v Speaker 2>school to kind of help teach him and teach him

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<v Speaker 2>with the new students and take care of the lab.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was very close with him, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I considered him a friend of mine. So just hearing

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<v Speaker 2>it was just such a shock and just really hurtful.

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<v Speaker 2>I still look at it to this day and try

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<v Speaker 2>to ask myself, how did I not see any of it?

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<v Speaker 1>What was your experience of him as a teacher?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean he was one of my favorite teachers.

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<v Speaker 2>I spent any free time I had, you know, with

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<v Speaker 2>him in his room. I worked on the video yearbook Forum,

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<v Speaker 2>I was on the morning show supporting that as well.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of extra time outside of the normal school

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<v Speaker 2>day was spent in that lab working with him on

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<v Speaker 2>different videos and that yearbook. So I was extremely close

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<v Speaker 2>to him during the school year and had nothing but

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<v Speaker 2>great things to say about him.

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<v Speaker 1>Huh what made him a good mentor?

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<v Speaker 2>To you? My original goal out of high school, I

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<v Speaker 2>was going into video production, and he was really helping

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<v Speaker 2>me understand what's the real world's like, where I can

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<v Speaker 2>go look for jobs? How I can get into that field,

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<v Speaker 2>and just being astounding board for hey, you know, here's

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm thinking about, which way should I go? And

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<v Speaker 2>just helping give me that drive and motivation because I really,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in a high school I really didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>where I wanted to go in life, and he really

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<v Speaker 2>kind of framed that for me. He portrayed a family man,

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<v Speaker 2>happy marriage, He had great kids, you know, things that

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<v Speaker 2>I looked for and I wanted myself, so I you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of attached to that.

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<v Speaker 1>Did he always feel like a friend or did that

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<v Speaker 1>come later, Let's.

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<v Speaker 2>Say, you know, after graduations, when I really felt like

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<v Speaker 2>that closer friendship you know, started the bond because it

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<v Speaker 2>was no longer a student teacher relationship. It was you know,

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<v Speaker 2>two men, you know, working together, bettering each other, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>going to see his band play and you know, so

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<v Speaker 2>on and so forth.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you ever come to the wine bar?

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<v Speaker 2>I did. I was at the wine cart when you

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<v Speaker 2>were just a cart and then you know, the wine

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<v Speaker 2>bar and really enjoying seeing that success of a dream

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<v Speaker 2>come to life.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you were listening to the podcast, was it

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<v Speaker 1>hard for you?

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<v Speaker 2>It was definitely difficult. You know, I would be lying

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<v Speaker 2>if I didn't say. There were some tears just with

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<v Speaker 2>I think that he really did these things and that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, these women were coming out about it. The

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<v Speaker 2>one episode where I hear his voice, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>was just like, I really just want to call him

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<v Speaker 2>and just say why, Like why are you the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of person? You know? I had trust in you. I

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<v Speaker 2>looked up to you, and you really, you know, did

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<v Speaker 2>these things that I just unimaginable, you know, And I

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<v Speaker 2>put myself in the shoe because I have a five

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<v Speaker 2>year old daughter. Wow, I can't imagine what these you know,

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<v Speaker 2>these students have gone through, let alone these other females

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<v Speaker 2>that he's interacted with, and who knows how many or

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<v Speaker 2>elpler out there. I mean, it really hit home with

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<v Speaker 2>me too, being a father and having a daughter.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sitting here and I'm just really sorry that you

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<v Speaker 4>had to go through that. You know, teachers are supposed

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<v Speaker 4>to be our mentors, so I'm really sorry that that

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<v Speaker 4>happened to you as well.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm more sorry that it happened to you. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when he got married.

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<v Speaker 4>To you really.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, I was in his life then and he seems

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<v Speaker 2>so happy. And if I had ever known he was

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<v Speaker 2>going to do something like I wish I could have

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<v Speaker 2>saved you from going through all of this. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know how you're doing it. You're extremely brave and just

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<v Speaker 2>an amazing person to look up to, to be able to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, go through this and unravel all of this

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<v Speaker 2>lies and and then talk to people about it, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's the biggest reason I wanted to be a

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<v Speaker 2>part of this is I want other females out there

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<v Speaker 2>that may be dealing with something that isn't right to

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<v Speaker 2>know that there's people here to help you and then

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<v Speaker 2>come out and step forward and you know, make a

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<v Speaker 2>voice for yourself. Don't be scared, and don't be bullied

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<v Speaker 2>into keeping quiet, you know. And that's really where that's

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<v Speaker 2>where it comes from my heart, Like we need more

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<v Speaker 2>people to speak up and talk about his experiences and

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<v Speaker 2>make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else as best

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<v Speaker 2>we can.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, I mean, that's the whole point. If you

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<v Speaker 1>were to run into him on the street, would you

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<v Speaker 1>say anything to him or would you keep walking?

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<v Speaker 2>That's a funny question. I think if I was by

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<v Speaker 2>myself and I saw him, I would definitely want to

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<v Speaker 2>confront him and just stop him and just say why.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's the last piece of closure I don't have,

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<v Speaker 2>is just talking directly to him. I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 2>get an answer I want, right, but for some reason

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<v Speaker 2>in my mind, I just want to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>just unload my feelings and make him understand how I feel.

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<v Speaker 5>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>If I was with my family, oh, I would probably

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<v Speaker 2>have to look the other way. I don't want my

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<v Speaker 2>five year old daughter anywhere in the vicinity.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know that last episode where I was able

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<v Speaker 3>to speak with him the last time, it was just

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<v Speaker 3>kind of brief because I thought I wanted to talk

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<v Speaker 3>to him. I thought I wanted these answers h But

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<v Speaker 3>then I realized that he's not capable.

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<v Speaker 2>Nope, And you could hear it in his voice. He

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<v Speaker 2>truly doesn't think he's done something wrong at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>He really believes his life. He won't understand anything I say.

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<v Speaker 2>I won't get the closure I truly want, but I

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<v Speaker 2>will get enough closure of just getting words out and

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<v Speaker 2>walking away from him and never sing again, but at

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<v Speaker 2>least get those last words because it still bothers me.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Paul, I really appreciate your time

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<v Speaker 1>and being willing to speak to me and.

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<v Speaker 2>Jen, I'm an open book with this at this point

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<v Speaker 2>because I just I want to I want to help

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<v Speaker 2>any other victims that could be out there from anything,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, any anyone that's going through something like this.

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<v Speaker 2>I hope, I hope they listen in and I definitely

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<v Speaker 2>hope this helps them feel comfortable coming forward.

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<v Speaker 1>Amber, another graduate of Kel High School, listened to Betrayal

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<v Speaker 1>and wrote in to share her experiences with Spencer. So Amber,

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<v Speaker 1>tell me when did you graduate Cal twenty twelve in May?

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<v Speaker 1>And did you have Spencer as a teacher.

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<v Speaker 5>I did. I believe I had three classes with him,

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<v Speaker 5>one sophomore, junior, and senior year, but not my freshman.

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<v Speaker 5>Up until senior year, I didn't have any sort of

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<v Speaker 5>vibes or wonderings. But when I was approaching graduation, which

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<v Speaker 5>was in twenty twelve, is when there were a couple

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<v Speaker 5>incidentss that were questionable. He did call me into his

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<v Speaker 5>closed door office for some random reason, not anything specific

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<v Speaker 5>to talk to me about. He wanted to show me

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<v Speaker 5>something cool on a camera, and it was a handheld

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<v Speaker 5>camera with a flipout screen. So when you're showing that

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<v Speaker 5>to someone, you're kind of you know, shoulder to shoulder

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<v Speaker 5>with them, and he had turned the lights out and.

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<v Speaker 1>Closed the door so we could see better.

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<v Speaker 5>But I just remember when he did that, his body

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<v Speaker 5>was like touching the other side of my body, and

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<v Speaker 5>you know, him leaning over and showing this thing with

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<v Speaker 5>all the lights off. My heart started racing and I

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<v Speaker 5>was like, whoa, this is pretty close. It's pretty dark,

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<v Speaker 5>and I'm not even focusing on what he's showing me.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm more wondering why, you know, he's feeling so comfortable

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<v Speaker 5>being this close to me. Someone had interrupted, actually, someone

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<v Speaker 5>had tapped his door and kind of pushed it open.

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<v Speaker 5>It was another student, and I was kind of like,

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<v Speaker 5>thank you for opening the door. I'm out of here.

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<v Speaker 5>When it happened, it felt like an outlier. It was

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<v Speaker 5>so borderline of it being something passable, because what other

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<v Speaker 5>teacher would have the opportunity to turn the lights off

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<v Speaker 5>to show someone something like that video production had that

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<v Speaker 5>sort of pass you know. It was very borderline.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and part of that is because of who he was,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, he was this beloved teacher, So those borderline

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<v Speaker 3>things were kind of blown off, I think because it

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<v Speaker 3>was like, oh, no way it could be coach Haarn,

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<v Speaker 3>he would never I feel like people just trusted him,

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<v Speaker 3>you know exactly.

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<v Speaker 5>I think also, when you have someone who's trustworthy, who

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<v Speaker 5>can kind of bend the rules and be cool, you

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<v Speaker 5>don't want to ruin that. You know, obviously that would

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<v Speaker 5>be him ruining it himself, but you almost just don't

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<v Speaker 5>want to believe that he would do that because it's

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<v Speaker 5>you know, it was such a special class and it

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<v Speaker 5>didn't deserve to be tainted and abused by his thought.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm really sorry you had that experience in his office.

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<v Speaker 1>Was there anything else that you experienced that made you

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<v Speaker 1>say this feels off?

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<v Speaker 5>There were three other times too, while I was in school.

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<v Speaker 5>One of the time senior year, during graduation, I had

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<v Speaker 5>just gotten a new camera, like handheld digital camera, and

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<v Speaker 5>of course I was running around taking pictures with students

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<v Speaker 5>and teachers, and I had someone take a picture of

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<v Speaker 5>him and I and he put his hand around my

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<v Speaker 5>waist and pulled me like up to his body. And

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<v Speaker 5>I'm super sensitive to touch, so when those things happened,

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<v Speaker 5>it's I'm very aware of it. And I remember wondering, like, oh,

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<v Speaker 5>is this how he acts when people graduate and turn eighteen,

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<v Speaker 5>Like he feels that he can make a touch like that.

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<v Speaker 5>That was the last time I had seen him. And

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<v Speaker 5>then a year later in twenty thirteen, in June, he

0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 5>sent me a Facebook message. The first message that he

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:20.320
<v Speaker 5>sends me is I miss Miami, which is this made

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.680
<v Speaker 5>up nickname based off of my name with a bunch

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.760
<v Speaker 5>of exclamation points. He's never called it to me before.

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.720
<v Speaker 5>And him saying I miss you and then using this

0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:37.120
<v Speaker 5>made up nickname, I was just really confused, and again

0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.280
<v Speaker 5>was just like, is this just how he talks to

0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.520
<v Speaker 5>grad students, Like he just suddenly switches to this like

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:49.760
<v Speaker 5>flirty person that uses nicknames. And then we were talking

0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.840
<v Speaker 5>a little bit about what I was studying in school,

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.560
<v Speaker 5>and then again he just switches back and goes, you know,

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 5>I just knew how special you were. I always knew

0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.800
<v Speaker 5>just how special you were. The last message he sent

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:10.440
<v Speaker 5>me was, hey, babe, what's up. That's just not something

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.360
<v Speaker 5>that it's appropriate at all.

0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Is there anything that you want to share that's important

0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.000
<v Speaker 1>for people to hear?

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 5>I feel like the takeaway from this could be that

0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 5>we should have more of these conversations, and students should

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:31.120
<v Speaker 5>have more confidants and more people that they feel safe

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 5>confiding and when it comes to sexual harassment or anything

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 5>insinuating sexual conduct that is inappropriate in any way.

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a really good message. And thank you

0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 1>so much for your time, Amber. I can't thank you enough.

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 1>And thanks to you guys, our Betrayal community. And get ready,

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 1>we'll be back with season two of Betrayals starting May eighteenth.

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.840
<v Speaker 1>It's about a new betrayal that I barely ever is

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>spoken about, but will confront it head on. Here's a

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>sneak peek.

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.160
<v Speaker 6>My husband and I were opening a business. His first

0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.640
<v Speaker 6>job was that very next day. One of the clients

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 6>had asked if they could bendmo him, so he'd called

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 6>me that morning September twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. He

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 6>was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo,

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.600
<v Speaker 6>and I was like, all right, use your name and

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 6>password for whatever email is connected to your venmo. So

0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 6>he sent me the log in for his iCloud and

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 6>as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back. He

0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 6>was like, Oh, don't worry about it, we'll do it

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 6>together when we get home. Like, I'm sorry, it's going

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 6>to be too much, Like, don't do it. I knew

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:56.120
<v Speaker 6>by the tenor of his voice that he was trying

0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 6>to hide something. I thought maybe he bought something that

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 6>he didn't want me to know about. There was nothing

0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 6>in his photos, and then I scrolled down, and that's

0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.280
<v Speaker 6>when I saw a hidden folder and I opened it.

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 6>You know, when you open your photos, it's going to

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 6>show you like a whole bunch of them at once.

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.120
<v Speaker 6>I slammed my computer shut.

0:16:24.560 --> 0:17:04.200
<v Speaker 7>What the hell did I just see.

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 5>That?

0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Season two of the Trial