Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning and if you haven't heard yet,
Speaker 1: a lot has been happening with Betrayal. First, we'll be
Speaker 1: back with season two of Betriyals starting May eighteenth. We
Speaker 1: even have a sneak peek at the end of this episode.
Speaker 1: Second Trial Season one is being turned into a documentary.
Speaker 1: More details on when and where it will launch, so
Speaker 1: stay tuned on the feed for updates. Hundreds of Betrayal
Speaker 1: listeners have reached out to betrayalpod dot com over the
Speaker 1: past year to share personal stories about their own betrayals.
Speaker 1: Others have written about knowing Spend personally. Some of the
Speaker 1: hardest letters to read have been from Spencer's former students.
Speaker 1: It's been surprising that so many months after we launched Betrayal,
Speaker 1: we are still receiving messages from graduates that encountered him
Speaker 1: during his twenty plus years as a high school teacher.
Speaker 1: We heard from many women over the last year who
Speaker 1: wanted to share their experiences with Spencer, but also heard
Speaker 1: from male students who were deeply affected, like Paul, Paul,
Speaker 1: it's so nice to meet you.
Speaker 2: It's nice to meet you as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for listening. To the podcast, of.
Speaker 2: Course it was.
Speaker 4: It was definitely inlightening to hear you know, more about
Speaker 4: what happened.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious as a former student, you know, you
Speaker 3: knew this person pretty well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I knew Spencer extremely well. You know,
Speaker 4: he was like a mentor to me even beyond high school.
Speaker 4: And you know, herry the arrests. First of all, just
Speaker 4: a lot of disbelief. Didn't really believe it, you know,
Speaker 4: is this true? And then the arrest comes and it's like, okay,
Speaker 4: you know, I still am like, is it it really is?
Speaker 4: Could this really be true? Like I just don't fully
Speaker 4: believe it until really he's guilty, and then you come
Speaker 4: out with the podcast, and that's you know, I jumped
Speaker 4: right on, like I have to figure out and hear
Speaker 4: for myself, like what what did he really do?
Speaker 2: Did he really do these things? People are saying.
Speaker 3: Right well, And that's one of the questions that I get.
Speaker 3: You know, why do you need to know? But you
Speaker 3: do when you know somebody or you think you know
Speaker 3: somebody and then they turn out totally different. Don't you
Speaker 3: want to find those answers?
Speaker 4: Especially how well I knew him After high school? I
Speaker 4: met up with him past graduation. You know, I helped
Speaker 4: him with his newer students and went back to the
Speaker 4: school to kind of help teach him and teach him
Speaker 4: with the new students and take care of the lab.
Speaker 4: So I was very close with him, and you know,
Speaker 4: I considered him a.
Speaker 2: Friend of mine.
Speaker 4: So just hearing it was just such a shock and
Speaker 4: just really hurtful. I still look at it to this
Speaker 4: day and try to ask myself, how did I not
Speaker 4: see any of it?
Speaker 5: What was your experience with him as a teacher?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean he was one of my favorite teachers.
Speaker 4: I spent any free time I had, you know, with
Speaker 4: him in his room. I worked on the video yearbook forum,
Speaker 4: I was on the morning show supporting that as well.
Speaker 4: A lot of extra time outside of the normal school
Speaker 4: day was spent in that lab working with him on
Speaker 4: different videos and that yearbook. So I was extremely close
Speaker 4: to him during the school year and had nothing but
Speaker 4: great things to say about him.
Speaker 5: Huh what made him a good mentor?
Speaker 4: To you? My original goal out of high school, I
Speaker 4: was going into video production, and he was really helping
Speaker 4: me understand what's the real world's like, where I can
Speaker 4: go look for jobs? How I can get into that field,
Speaker 4: and just being astounding board for hey, you know, here's
Speaker 4: what I'm thinking about, which way should I go? And
Speaker 4: just helping give me that drive and motivation because I really,
Speaker 4: you know, in a high school I really didn't know
Speaker 4: where I wanted to go in life, and he really
Speaker 4: kind of framed that for me. He portrayed a family man,
Speaker 4: happy marriage, He had great kids, you know, things that
Speaker 4: I looked for and I wanted myself, so I you know,
Speaker 4: I kind of attached to that.
Speaker 5: Did he always feel like a friend or did that
Speaker 5: come later, Let's.
Speaker 4: Say, you know, after graduations, when I really felt like
Speaker 4: that closer friendship you know, started the bond because it
Speaker 4: was no longer a.
Speaker 2: Student teacher relationship.
Speaker 4: It was you know, two men, you know, working together,
Speaker 4: bettering each other, you know, going to see his band play,
Speaker 4: and you know, so on and so forth.
Speaker 3: Did you ever come to the wine bar?
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 4: I was at the wine cart when you were just
Speaker 4: a cart and then you know, the wine bar and
Speaker 4: really enjoying seeing that success of a dream come to life.
Speaker 5: So when you were listening to the podcast, was it
Speaker 5: hard for you?
Speaker 4: It was definitely difficult. You know, I would be lying
Speaker 4: if I didn't say. There were some tears just with
Speaker 4: I think that he really did these things and that
Speaker 4: you know, these women were coming out about it. The
Speaker 4: one episode where I hear his voice, you know, I
Speaker 4: was just like, I really just want to call him
Speaker 4: and just say why, Like why.
Speaker 2: Are you the kind of person? You know? I had
Speaker 2: trust in you.
Speaker 4: I looked up to you, and you really, you know,
Speaker 4: did these things that I just unimaginable, you know, and
Speaker 4: I put myself in the shoe because I have a
Speaker 4: five year old daughter. Wow, I can't imagine what these
Speaker 4: you know, these students have gone through, let alone these
Speaker 4: other females that he's interacted with, and who knows how
Speaker 4: many or elpler out there. I mean, it really hit
Speaker 4: home with me too, being a father and having a daughter.
Speaker 6: I'm sitting here and I'm just really sorry that you
Speaker 6: had to go through that. You know, teachers are supposed
Speaker 6: to be our mentors, so I'm really sorry that that
Speaker 6: happened to you as well.
Speaker 2: I'm more sorry that it happened to you.
Speaker 4: I mean, I remember when he got married to you.
Speaker 4: Really know, I was in his life then and he
Speaker 4: seems so happy, And if I had ever known he
Speaker 4: was going to do something like I wish I could
Speaker 4: have saved you from going through all of this.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you're doing it.
Speaker 4: You're extremely brave and just an amazing person to look
Speaker 4: up to, to be able to, you know, go through
Speaker 4: this and unravel all of this lies and and then
Speaker 4: talk to people about it, you know. That's that's the
Speaker 4: biggest reason I wanted to be a part of this
Speaker 4: is I want other females out there that may be
Speaker 4: dealing with something that isn't right to know that there's
Speaker 4: people here to help you, and then come out and
Speaker 4: step forward and you know, make a voice for yourself.
Speaker 4: Don't be scared, and don't be bullied into keeping quiet,
Speaker 4: you know. And that's really where that's where it comes
Speaker 4: from my heart, Like we need more people to speak
Speaker 4: up and talk about his experiences and make sure this
Speaker 4: doesn't happen to anybody else as best we can.
Speaker 5: That's right, I mean, that's the whole point. If you
Speaker 5: were to run into him on the street, would you
Speaker 5: say anything to him or would you keep walking?
Speaker 2: That's a funny question.
Speaker 4: I think if I was by myself and I saw him,
Speaker 4: I would definitely want to confront him and just stop
Speaker 4: him and just say why. I think that's the last
Speaker 4: piece of closure I don't have, is just talking directly
Speaker 4: to him.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get.
Speaker 4: An answer I want, right, but for some reason in
Speaker 4: my mind, I just want to be able to just
Speaker 4: unload my feelings and make him understand how I feel.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 4: If I was with my family, oh, I would probably
Speaker 4: have to look the other way. I don't want my
Speaker 4: five year old daughter anywhere in the vicinity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that last episode where I was able
Speaker 3: to speak with him the last time, it was just
Speaker 3: kind of brief because I thought I wanted to talk
Speaker 3: to him. I thought I wanted these answers h But
Speaker 3: then I realized that he's not capable.
Speaker 2: Nope, And you could hear it in his voice.
Speaker 4: He truly doesn't think he's done something wrong at this point.
Speaker 4: He really believes his life. He won't understand anything I say.
Speaker 4: I won't get the closure I truly want, but I
Speaker 4: will get enough closure of just getting words out and
Speaker 4: walking away from him and never sing again, but at
Speaker 4: least get those last words because it still bothers me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Paul, I really appreciate your time
Speaker 1: and being willing to speak to me and.
Speaker 4: Jen, I'm an open book with this at this point
Speaker 4: because I just I want to I want to help
Speaker 4: any other victims that could be out there from anything,
Speaker 4: you know, any anyone that's going through something like this.
Speaker 4: I hope, I hope they listen in and I definitely
Speaker 4: hope this helps them feel comfortable coming forward.
Speaker 1: Amber, another graduate of Kel High School, listened to Betrayal
Speaker 1: and wrote in to share her experiences with Spencer. So Amber,
Speaker 1: tell me when did you graduate Cal twenty twelve in May?
Speaker 1: And did you have Spencer as a teacher.
Speaker 7: I did. I believe I had three classes with him,
Speaker 7: one sophomore, junior, and senior year, but not my freshman.
Speaker 7: Up until senior year, I didn't have any sort of
Speaker 7: vibes or wonderings. But when I was approaching graduation, which
Speaker 7: was in twenty twelve, is when there were a couple
Speaker 7: incidentss that were questionable. He did call me into his
Speaker 7: closed door office for some random reason, not anything specific
Speaker 7: to talk to me about. He wanted to show me
Speaker 7: something cool on a camera, and it was a handheld
Speaker 7: camera with a flipout screen. So when you're showing that
Speaker 7: to someone you're kind of, you know, shoulder to shoulder
Speaker 7: with them, and he had turned the lights out and
Speaker 7: closed the door so we could see better. But I
Speaker 7: just remember when he did that, his body was like
Speaker 7: touching the other side of my body, and you know,
Speaker 7: him leaning over and showing this thing with all the
Speaker 7: lights off. My heart started racing and I was like, whoa,
Speaker 7: this is pretty close. It's pretty dark, and I'm not
Speaker 7: even focusing on what he's showing me. I'm more wondering why,
Speaker 7: you know, he's feeling so comfortable being this close to me.
Speaker 7: Someone had interrupted, actually, someone had tapped his door and
Speaker 7: kind of pushed it open. It was another student, and
Speaker 7: I was kind of like, thank you for opening the door.
Speaker 7: I'm out of here. When it happened, it felt like
Speaker 7: an outlier. It was so borderline of it being something passable,
Speaker 7: because what other teacher would have the opportunity to turn
Speaker 7: the lights off to show someone something like that video
Speaker 7: production had that sort of pass you know, it was
Speaker 7: very borderline.
Speaker 3: Well, and part of that is because of who he was,
Speaker 3: you know, he was this beloved teacher, so those borderline
Speaker 3: things were kind of blown off, I think because it
Speaker 3: was like, oh, no way, it could be coach Haarn.
Speaker 3: He would never I feel like people just trusted him,
Speaker 3: you know exactly.
Speaker 7: I think also, when you have someone who's trustworthy, who
Speaker 7: can kind of bend the rules and be cool, you
Speaker 7: don't want to ruin that. You know, obviously that would
Speaker 7: be him ruining it himself, but you almost just don't
Speaker 7: want to believe that he would do that because it's
Speaker 7: you know, it was such a special class and it
Speaker 7: didn't deserve to be tainted.
Speaker 5: And abused by his thought.
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry you had that experience in his office.
Speaker 1: Was there anything else that you experienced that made you
Speaker 1: say this feels off?
Speaker 7: There were three other times too while I was in school.
Speaker 7: One of the time senior year, during graduation, I had
Speaker 7: just gotten a new camera, like handheld digital camera, and
Speaker 7: of course I was running around taking pictures with students
Speaker 7: and teachers, and I had someone take a picture of
Speaker 7: him and I and he put his hand around my
Speaker 7: waist and pulled me like up to his body. And
Speaker 7: I'm super sensitive to touch, so when those things happened,
Speaker 7: it's I'm very aware of it. And I remember wondering, like, oh,
Speaker 7: is this how he acts when people graduate and turn eighteen,
Speaker 7: like he feels that he can make a touch like that.
Speaker 7: That was the last time I had seen him. And
Speaker 7: then a year later in twenty thirteen, in June, he
Speaker 7: sent me a Facebook message. The first message that he
Speaker 7: sends me is I miss Miami, which is this made
Speaker 7: up nickname based off of my name with a bunch
Speaker 7: of exclamation points. He's never called it to me before.
Speaker 7: And him saying I miss you and then using this
Speaker 7: made up nickname, I was just really confused, and again
Speaker 7: was just like, is this just how he talks to
Speaker 7: grad students, Like he just suddenly switches to this like
Speaker 7: flirty person that uses nicknames. And then we were talking
Speaker 7: a little bit about what I was studying in school,
Speaker 7: and then again he just switches back and goes, you know,
Speaker 7: I just knew how special you were. I always knew
Speaker 7: just how special you were. The last message he sent
Speaker 7: me was, hey, babe, what's up. That's just not something
Speaker 7: that it's appropriate at all.
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you want to share that's important
Speaker 1: for people to hear.
Speaker 7: I feel like the takeaway from this could be that
Speaker 7: we should have more of these conversations, and students should
Speaker 7: have more confidants and more people that they feel safe
Speaker 7: confiding and when it comes to sexual harassment or anything
Speaker 7: insinuating sexual conduct that is inappropriate in any way.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good message. And thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your time, Amber. I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 1: And thanks to you guys, our Betrayal community.
Speaker 5: And get ready, we'll.
Speaker 1: Be back with season two of Betrayals starting May eighteenth.
Speaker 1: It's about a new betrayal that I barely ever is
Speaker 1: spoken about, but will confront it head on.
Speaker 5: Here's a sneak peek.
Speaker 8: My husband and I were opening a business. His first
Speaker 8: job was that very next day. One of the clients
Speaker 8: had asked if they could bendmo him, so he'd called
Speaker 8: me that morning September twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. He
Speaker 8: was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo,
Speaker 8: and I was like, all right, use your name and
Speaker 8: password for whatever email is connected to your venmo. So
Speaker 8: he sent me the log in for his iCloud and
Speaker 8: as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back. He
Speaker 8: was like, Oh, don't worry about it, we'll do it
Speaker 8: together when we get home, Like, I'm sorry, it's going
Speaker 8: to be too much like don't do it. I knew
Speaker 8: by the tenor of his voice that he was trying
Speaker 8: to hide something. I thought maybe he bought something that
Speaker 8: he didn't want me to know about. There was nothing
Speaker 8: in his photos, and then I scrolled down, and that's
Speaker 8: when I saw a hidden folder and I opened it.
Speaker 8: You know, when you open your photos, it's going to
Speaker 8: show you like a whole bunch of them at once.
Speaker 8: I slammed my computer shut. What the hell did I
Speaker 8: just see.
Speaker 7: That?
Speaker 5: Season two of Betrayal