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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning and if you haven't heard yet,

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Speaker 1: a lot has been happening with Betrayal. First, we'll be

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Speaker 1: back with season two of Betrayals starting May eighteenth. We

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Speaker 1: even have a sneak peek at the end of this episode.

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Speaker 1: Second Trial. Season one is being turned into a documentary.

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Speaker 1: More details on when and where it will launch, so

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Speaker 1: stay tuned on the feed for updates. Hundreds of Betrayal

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Speaker 1: listeners have reached out to betrayalpod dot com over the

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Speaker 1: past year to share personal stories about their own betrayals.

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Speaker 1: Others have written about knowing spend personally. Some of the

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Speaker 1: hardest letters to read have been from Spencer's former students.

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Speaker 1: It's been surprising that so many months after we launched Betrayal,

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Speaker 1: we are still receiving messages from graduates that encountered him

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Speaker 1: during his twenty plus years as a high school teacher.

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Speaker 1: We heard from many women over the last year who

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Speaker 1: wanted to share their experiences with Spencer, but also heard

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Speaker 1: from male students who were deeply affected, like Paul, Paul,

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Speaker 1: it's so nice to meet you.

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Speaker 2: It's nice to meet you as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for listening to the podcast, of.

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Speaker 2: Course it was. It was definitely inlightening to hear you know,

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Speaker 2: more about what happened.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious as a former student, you know, you

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Speaker 3: knew this person pretty well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I knew Spencer extremely well. You know,

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Speaker 2: he was like a mentor to me even beyond high school.

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Speaker 2: And you know, herry the arrests, first of all, just

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Speaker 2: a lot of disbelief. Didn't really believe it, you know,

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Speaker 2: is this true? And then the arrest comes and it's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: you know, I still am like, is it it really is?

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Speaker 2: Could this really be true? Like I just don't fully

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Speaker 2: believe it until really he's guilty, and then you come

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Speaker 2: out with the podcast, and that's you know, I jumped

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Speaker 2: right on, like I have to figure out and hear

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Speaker 2: for myself, like what what did he really do? Did

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Speaker 2: he really do these things? People are saying.

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Speaker 3: Right well, And that's one of the questions that I get.

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Speaker 3: You know, why do you need to know? But you

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Speaker 3: do when you know somebody or you think you know

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Speaker 3: somebody and then they turn out totally different. Don't you

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Speaker 3: want to find those answers?

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Speaker 2: Especially how well I knew him. After high school, I

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Speaker 2: met up with him past graduation. You know, I helped

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Speaker 2: him with his newer students and went back to the

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Speaker 2: school to kind of help teach him and teach him

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Speaker 2: with the new students and take care of the lab.

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Speaker 2: So I was very close with him, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I considered him a friend of mine. So just hearing

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Speaker 2: it was just such a shock and just really hurtful.

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Speaker 2: I still look at it to this day and try

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Speaker 2: to ask myself, how did I not see any of it?

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Speaker 1: What was your experience of him as a teacher?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean he was one of my favorite teachers.

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Speaker 2: I spent any free time I had, you know, with

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Speaker 2: him in his room. I worked on the video yearbook Forum,

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Speaker 2: I was on the morning show supporting that as well.

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Speaker 2: A lot of extra time outside of the normal school

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Speaker 2: day was spent in that lab working with him on

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Speaker 2: different videos and that yearbook. So I was extremely close

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Speaker 2: to him during the school year and had nothing but

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Speaker 2: great things to say about him.

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Speaker 1: Huh what made him a good mentor?

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Speaker 2: To you? My original goal out of high school, I

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Speaker 2: was going into video production, and he was really helping

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Speaker 2: me understand what's the real world's like, where I can

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Speaker 2: go look for jobs? How I can get into that field,

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Speaker 2: and just being astounding board for hey, you know, here's

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Speaker 2: what I'm thinking about, which way should I go? And

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Speaker 2: just helping give me that drive and motivation because I really,

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Speaker 2: you know, in a high school I really didn't know

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Speaker 2: where I wanted to go in life, and he really

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Speaker 2: kind of framed that for me. He portrayed a family man,

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Speaker 2: happy marriage, He had great kids, you know, things that

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Speaker 2: I looked for and I wanted myself, so I you know,

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Speaker 2: I kind of attached to that.

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Speaker 1: Did he always feel like a friend or did that

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Speaker 1: come later, Let's.

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Speaker 2: Say, you know, after graduations, when I really felt like

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Speaker 2: that closer friendship you know, started the bond because it

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Speaker 2: was no longer a student teacher relationship. It was you know,

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Speaker 2: two men, you know, working together, bettering each other, you know,

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Speaker 2: going to see his band play and you know, so

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Speaker 2: on and so forth.

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Speaker 3: Did you ever come to the wine bar?

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Speaker 2: I did. I was at the wine cart when you

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Speaker 2: were just a cart and then you know, the wine

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Speaker 2: bar and really enjoying seeing that success of a dream

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Speaker 2: come to life.

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Speaker 1: So when you were listening to the podcast, was it

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Speaker 1: hard for you?

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Speaker 2: It was definitely difficult. You know, I would be lying

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Speaker 2: if I didn't say. There were some tears just with

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Speaker 2: I think that he really did these things and that

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Speaker 2: you know, these women were coming out about it. The

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Speaker 2: one episode where I hear his voice, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was just like, I really just want to call him

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Speaker 2: and just say why, Like why are you the kind

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Speaker 2: of person? You know? I had trust in you. I

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Speaker 2: looked up to you, and you really, you know, did

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Speaker 2: these things that I just unimaginable, you know, And I

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Speaker 2: put myself in the shoe because I have a five

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Speaker 2: year old daughter. Wow, I can't imagine what these you know,

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Speaker 2: these students have gone through, let alone these other females

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Speaker 2: that he's interacted with, and who knows how many or

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Speaker 2: elpler out there. I mean, it really hit home with

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Speaker 2: me too, being a father and having a daughter.

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Speaker 4: I'm sitting here and I'm just really sorry that you

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Speaker 4: had to go through that. You know, teachers are supposed

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Speaker 4: to be our mentors, so I'm really sorry that that

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Speaker 4: happened to you as well.

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Speaker 2: I'm more sorry that it happened to you. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I remember when he got married.

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Speaker 4: To you really.

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Speaker 2: Know, I was in his life then and he seems

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Speaker 2: so happy. And if I had ever known he was

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Speaker 2: going to do something like I wish I could have

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Speaker 2: saved you from going through all of this. I don't

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Speaker 2: know how you're doing it. You're extremely brave and just

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Speaker 2: an amazing person to look up to, to be able to,

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Speaker 2: you know, go through this and unravel all of this

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Speaker 2: lies and and then talk to people about it, you know.

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Speaker 2: That's that's the biggest reason I wanted to be a

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Speaker 2: part of this is I want other females out there

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Speaker 2: that may be dealing with something that isn't right to

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Speaker 2: know that there's people here to help you and then

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Speaker 2: come out and step forward and you know, make a

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Speaker 2: voice for yourself. Don't be scared, and don't be bullied

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Speaker 2: into keeping quiet, you know. And that's really where that's

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Speaker 2: where it comes from my heart, Like we need more

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Speaker 2: people to speak up and talk about his experiences and

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Speaker 2: make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else as best

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Speaker 2: we can.

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Speaker 1: That's right, I mean, that's the whole point. If you

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Speaker 1: were to run into him on the street, would you

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Speaker 1: say anything to him or would you keep walking?

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Speaker 2: That's a funny question. I think if I was by

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Speaker 2: myself and I saw him, I would definitely want to

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Speaker 2: confront him and just stop him and just say why.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the last piece of closure I don't have,

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Speaker 2: is just talking directly to him. I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: get an answer I want, right, but for some reason

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Speaker 2: in my mind, I just want to be able to

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Speaker 2: just unload my feelings and make him understand how I feel.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: If I was with my family, oh, I would probably

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Speaker 2: have to look the other way. I don't want my

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Speaker 2: five year old daughter anywhere in the vicinity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that last episode where I was able

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Speaker 3: to speak with him the last time, it was just

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Speaker 3: kind of brief because I thought I wanted to talk

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Speaker 3: to him. I thought I wanted these answers h But

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Speaker 3: then I realized that he's not capable.

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Speaker 2: Nope, And you could hear it in his voice. He

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Speaker 2: truly doesn't think he's done something wrong at this point.

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Speaker 2: He really believes his life. He won't understand anything I say.

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Speaker 2: I won't get the closure I truly want, but I

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Speaker 2: will get enough closure of just getting words out and

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Speaker 2: walking away from him and never sing again, but at

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Speaker 2: least get those last words because it still bothers me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Paul, I really appreciate your time

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Speaker 1: and being willing to speak to me and.

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Speaker 2: Jen, I'm an open book with this at this point

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Speaker 2: because I just I want to I want to help

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Speaker 2: any other victims that could be out there from anything,

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Speaker 2: you know, any anyone that's going through something like this.

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Speaker 2: I hope, I hope they listen in and I definitely

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Speaker 2: hope this helps them feel comfortable coming forward.

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Speaker 1: Amber, another graduate of Kel High School, listened to Betrayal

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Speaker 1: and wrote in to share her experiences with Spencer. So Amber,

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Speaker 1: tell me when did you graduate Cal twenty twelve in May?

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Speaker 1: And did you have Spencer as a teacher.

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Speaker 5: I did. I believe I had three classes with him,

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Speaker 5: one sophomore, junior, and senior year, but not my freshman.

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Speaker 5: Up until senior year, I didn't have any sort of

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Speaker 5: vibes or wonderings. But when I was approaching graduation, which

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Speaker 5: was in twenty twelve, is when there were a couple

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Speaker 5: incidentss that were questionable. He did call me into his

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Speaker 5: closed door office for some random reason, not anything specific

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Speaker 5: to talk to me about. He wanted to show me

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Speaker 5: something cool on a camera, and it was a handheld

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Speaker 5: camera with a flipout screen. So when you're showing that

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Speaker 5: to someone, you're kind of you know, shoulder to shoulder

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Speaker 5: with them, and he had turned the lights out and.

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Speaker 1: Closed the door so we could see better.

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Speaker 5: But I just remember when he did that, his body

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Speaker 5: was like touching the other side of my body, and

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Speaker 5: you know, him leaning over and showing this thing with

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Speaker 5: all the lights off. My heart started racing and I

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Speaker 5: was like, whoa, this is pretty close. It's pretty dark,

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Speaker 5: and I'm not even focusing on what he's showing me.

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Speaker 5: I'm more wondering why, you know, he's feeling so comfortable

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Speaker 5: being this close to me. Someone had interrupted, actually, someone

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Speaker 5: had tapped his door and kind of pushed it open.

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Speaker 5: It was another student, and I was kind of like,

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Speaker 5: thank you for opening the door. I'm out of here.

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Speaker 5: When it happened, it felt like an outlier. It was

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Speaker 5: so borderline of it being something passable, because what other

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Speaker 5: teacher would have the opportunity to turn the lights off

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Speaker 5: to show someone something like that video production had that

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Speaker 5: sort of pass you know. It was very borderline.

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Speaker 3: Well, and part of that is because of who he was,

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Speaker 3: you know, he was this beloved teacher, So those borderline

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Speaker 3: things were kind of blown off, I think because it

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, no way it could be coach Haarn,

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Speaker 3: he would never I feel like people just trusted him,

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Speaker 3: you know exactly.

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Speaker 5: I think also, when you have someone who's trustworthy, who

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Speaker 5: can kind of bend the rules and be cool, you

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Speaker 5: don't want to ruin that. You know, obviously that would

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Speaker 5: be him ruining it himself, but you almost just don't

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Speaker 5: want to believe that he would do that because it's

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Speaker 5: you know, it was such a special class and it

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Speaker 5: didn't deserve to be tainted and abused by his thought.

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Speaker 1: I'm really sorry you had that experience in his office.

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Speaker 1: Was there anything else that you experienced that made you

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Speaker 1: say this feels off?

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Speaker 5: There were three other times too, while I was in school.

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Speaker 5: One of the time senior year, during graduation, I had

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Speaker 5: just gotten a new camera, like handheld digital camera, and

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Speaker 5: of course I was running around taking pictures with students

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Speaker 5: and teachers, and I had someone take a picture of

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Speaker 5: him and I and he put his hand around my

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Speaker 5: waist and pulled me like up to his body. And

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Speaker 5: I'm super sensitive to touch, so when those things happened,

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Speaker 5: it's I'm very aware of it. And I remember wondering, like, oh,

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Speaker 5: is this how he acts when people graduate and turn eighteen,

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Speaker 5: Like he feels that he can make a touch like that.

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Speaker 5: That was the last time I had seen him. And

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Speaker 5: then a year later in twenty thirteen, in June, he

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Speaker 5: sent me a Facebook message. The first message that he

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Speaker 5: sends me is I miss Miami, which is this made

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Speaker 5: up nickname based off of my name with a bunch

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Speaker 5: of exclamation points. He's never called it to me before.

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Speaker 5: And him saying I miss you and then using this

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Speaker 5: made up nickname, I was just really confused, and again

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Speaker 5: was just like, is this just how he talks to

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Speaker 5: grad students, Like he just suddenly switches to this like

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Speaker 5: flirty person that uses nicknames. And then we were talking

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Speaker 5: a little bit about what I was studying in school,

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Speaker 5: and then again he just switches back and goes, you know,

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Speaker 5: I just knew how special you were. I always knew

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Speaker 5: just how special you were. The last message he sent

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Speaker 5: me was, hey, babe, what's up. That's just not something

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Speaker 5: that it's appropriate at all.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything that you want to share that's important

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Speaker 1: for people to hear?

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Speaker 5: I feel like the takeaway from this could be that

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Speaker 5: we should have more of these conversations, and students should

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Speaker 5: have more confidants and more people that they feel safe

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Speaker 5: confiding and when it comes to sexual harassment or anything

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Speaker 5: insinuating sexual conduct that is inappropriate in any way.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really good message. And thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for your time, Amber. I can't thank you enough.

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Speaker 1: And thanks to you guys, our Betrayal community. And get ready,

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Speaker 1: we'll be back with season two of Betrayals starting May eighteenth.

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Speaker 1: It's about a new betrayal that I barely ever is

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Speaker 1: spoken about, but will confront it head on. Here's a

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Speaker 1: sneak peek.

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Speaker 6: My husband and I were opening a business. His first

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Speaker 6: job was that very next day. One of the clients

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Speaker 6: had asked if they could bendmo him, so he'd called

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Speaker 6: me that morning September twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. He

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Speaker 6: was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo,

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Speaker 6: and I was like, all right, use your name and

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Speaker 6: password for whatever email is connected to your venmo. So

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Speaker 6: he sent me the log in for his iCloud and

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Speaker 6: as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back. He

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Speaker 6: was like, Oh, don't worry about it, we'll do it

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Speaker 6: together when we get home. Like, I'm sorry, it's going

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Speaker 6: to be too much, Like, don't do it. I knew

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Speaker 6: by the tenor of his voice that he was trying

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Speaker 6: to hide something. I thought maybe he bought something that

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Speaker 6: he didn't want me to know about. There was nothing

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Speaker 6: in his photos, and then I scrolled down, and that's

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Speaker 6: when I saw a hidden folder and I opened it.

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Speaker 6: You know, when you open your photos, it's going to

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Speaker 6: show you like a whole bunch of them at once.

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Speaker 6: I slammed my computer shut.

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Speaker 7: What the hell did I just see.

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Speaker 5: That?

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Speaker 1: Season two of the Trial