Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women
Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zeph and
Speaker 1: bast start changing it with the Bechdelcast podcast.
Speaker 2: Isn't home? But is it? Kind of? I think it
Speaker 2: kind of is. I think it's so fascinating that you're
Speaker 2: able to engage with musical theater only ironically. Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 2: I like that you're going to be an honorary theater
Speaker 2: kid today.
Speaker 3: Look I went, I crossed a sea and ocean to
Speaker 3: go see musical theater. It was Paddington the Musical.
Speaker 2: True's but I loved it. I know, I know. What
Speaker 2: do you do?
Speaker 3: You ever listen to the soundtrack? Yes, I've been anytime
Speaker 3: I go on a walk, I've been listening to it
Speaker 3: and the.
Speaker 2: Songs of the Bank, but the bangers tell us.
Speaker 3: I would say the best song is probably pretty Little
Speaker 3: Dead Things. That's the villain song. Whoa rhythm of London
Speaker 3: is amazing, Don't touch that is amazing. Marmalade obviously, there's
Speaker 3: a song called Marmalade and it slaps, explore and the
Speaker 3: bear honestly, like hard Stare, there isn't a week song
Speaker 3: in the entire production. It's top to bottom incredible. Highly
Speaker 3: recommend everyone listen to the Paddington the Musical soundtrack. And
Speaker 3: I'm not just saying that because I love Paddington. It's like,
Speaker 3: legitimately so good. I love musical theater.
Speaker 2: It turns out I cannot wait for there to be
Speaker 2: a Tory production. I mean, I'm sure tickets will be
Speaker 2: in wildly high demand, but I can't wait.
Speaker 3: I would spend many dollars and travel great distances to
Speaker 3: see it again. Anyway, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. Absolutely,
Speaker 3: the Bechdel.
Speaker 2: Camp, Oh my god. Yeah. Do you think people would go? Yes,
Speaker 2: it would just be us criticizing the elements of the
Speaker 2: camp to be like, actually this sucks. I no, I
Speaker 2: think I think the Bechtel Camp would be really fun.
Speaker 2: It would be like this camp, very queer and very
Speaker 2: loud and very dramatic. Yeah, yeah, no, I think people
Speaker 2: would attend. I think we should do it absolutely and
Speaker 2: see you this summer. Bitches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm camp counselor Caitlyn Dorante.
Speaker 2: Who are you, Jamie, Oh, I'm janitor Jamie who ends
Speaker 2: up actually stealing the show at the end of the summer,
Speaker 2: just like Ben Platt's husband. And that is how I'll
Speaker 2: be referring to him throughout.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, amazing. Anyway, this is the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 3: We examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Speaker 3: Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point. And what
Speaker 3: is that tell Jamie.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you. It is a media metric created
Speaker 2: by queer cartoonist and presumably owner of the Bechdel Camp,
Speaker 2: Alison Bechdel.
Speaker 3: She's an investor. Yeah, she's an angel investor.
Speaker 2: I would say it's one of the Patty Harrison's of
Speaker 2: the camp. And it's a media metric that she wrote
Speaker 2: in a comic that has since been adapted to a
Speaker 2: more mainstream way. Our version of the test requires that
Speaker 2: there be two characters of a marginalized gender with names
Speaker 2: who speak to each other about something other than a
Speaker 2: man for more than two lines of meaningful dialogue. Now
Speaker 2: it happens in this movie. It happens in this movie,
Speaker 2: and it's also not I think this movie is interesting
Speaker 2: to me because it sort of reminds me of the
Speaker 2: Fire Island discourse around the Bechdel test where this movie
Speaker 2: doesn't pass the Bechdel test a ton but in a
Speaker 2: way that is a great example of why it is
Speaker 2: just a jumping off point for discussion totally where I
Speaker 2: do remember that there was I mean, if you recall
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, there was like one bad
Speaker 2: faith actor online who is like Fire Island, a movie
Speaker 2: famously about gay men on Fire Island doesn't pass the
Speaker 2: Bechdel test. How am I supposed to respect this thing?
Speaker 2: And at this point, it's like we're urging you to
Speaker 2: get over yourself and take a step back and look
Speaker 2: at the forest and not just this tree or angry
Speaker 2: at Anyways, I'm so excited to discuss this movie today.
Speaker 2: Theater Camp twenty twenty three. Kind of some Nepo baby
Speaker 2: excellence afoot here. Sure throw a rock and you've got
Speaker 2: someone with Broadway producer parents, and yet it is just
Speaker 2: like genuinely a really good movie and a movie that
Speaker 2: I feel like, even though it it made more money
Speaker 2: at the box office than I thought it had. It
Speaker 2: made like four point six million, but I do feel
Speaker 2: like it was a movie that was kind of what
Speaker 2: am I I'm thinking knee capped, knee capped. That feels
Speaker 2: too dramatic. I'm thinking of what happened to Tanya Harding.
Speaker 2: There's like a phrase, my brain is not oh. I
Speaker 2: mean it was held back. It was held back by
Speaker 2: the fact that it was released and would have been
Speaker 2: promoted largely during the SAG and WGA strikes of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three, which is part of way I feel like
Speaker 2: this there wasn't more noise made about this movie is
Speaker 2: because the creators and the actors were not going to
Speaker 2: cross a picket line to do so. Sure so, Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: I feel like this movie didn't really get as big
Speaker 2: of an audience or buzz as it deserved. I know,
Speaker 2: but today that changes. Today they're getting the Bechdel cast bump.
Speaker 2: And what an important and influential bump it is. It's
Speaker 2: so true. I did see this movie in theaters.
Speaker 3: I was one of the few. I saw a trailer
Speaker 3: for it, and I was like, this seems so funny.
Speaker 3: It seems like a great cast. I love a mockumentary,
Speaker 3: and it got my butt in the seat and it
Speaker 3: did not disappoint. I loved it. I thought it was
Speaker 3: so funny. I am not nor have I ever been
Speaker 3: a theater kid myself, but you don't need to have
Speaker 3: that experience to enjoy this movie because it's so funny,
Speaker 3: it's very heartfelt. The themes resonate with me because capitalism
Speaker 3: is the enemy and community is the hero of the movie.
Speaker 2: And I loved it.
Speaker 3: So I saw it in theaters, but I haven't I
Speaker 3: didn't watch it since, so it was a joy to
Speaker 3: revisit it. And because I barely have a functioning memory anymore,
Speaker 3: it was kind of like watching it for the first
Speaker 3: time prep for this episode, and yeah, it was. It
Speaker 3: was such a treat to rewatch. So, Jamie, what's your
Speaker 3: history with it? And I was also curious if you've
Speaker 3: ever been to summer camp before? Oh have you?
Speaker 2: I did go to.
Speaker 3: Girl Scout Camp nice, but it was it wasn't like
Speaker 3: a long term camp. It was like it was sleep
Speaker 3: away camp for like four days for five days kind
Speaker 3: of thing. So it wasn't like a week's long thing.
Speaker 2: But I did that. We've got to bring back Girl
Speaker 2: Scout cinema. Yeah, I feel like there was a moment
Speaker 2: in the eighties and nineties. I mean, obviously Troop Beverly
Speaker 2: Hills was that it.
Speaker 3: Well, there was a more recent one called I want
Speaker 3: to say it was.
Speaker 2: Called Troops zero. Is that the name?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yes, another movie that I feel like wasn't really given
Speaker 2: a proper promotional push.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I don't think it had a theatrical release,
Speaker 3: or if it did, it was like pretty sparse. But
Speaker 3: I thought it was maybe like a straight to streaming
Speaker 3: Yeah movie, I didn't see it. But yeah, there's only
Speaker 3: a small handful of Girl Scout movies, and there should
Speaker 3: be more, but there's no shortage of set. This is
Speaker 3: I think the first theater camp. I mean, this movie
Speaker 3: shares so much DNA with one of my favorite mockumentaries
Speaker 3: ever and one that innovated the form, Waiting for Guffman,
Speaker 3: which we will be covering at some point. Obviously, the
Speaker 3: filmmakers here, our Christopher guest fans are not.
Speaker 2: Shy about that, nor should they be. He's amazing, So Okay.
Speaker 2: My history with this movie is that, in spite of
Speaker 2: it being a movie that is ostensibly made for me
Speaker 2: to watch, I hadn't seen it. I don't remember why
Speaker 2: Sumber twenty twenty three was chaotic. I was on tour
Speaker 2: and then I was in the most toxic relationship of
Speaker 2: my life, and then my dad got cancer. So I
Speaker 2: think like in somewhere in the somewhere in there, I
Speaker 2: just didn't see theater camp Fair, but maybe it would have.
Speaker 2: Maybe my father would be here today if I had.
Speaker 2: We'll never know. Oh well, well, ever, no, I guess
Speaker 2: we will never know. Cinema heels, but it's too late.
Speaker 2: I am in like a wild mood today. Okay, So no,
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen it before, but I knew I was
Speaker 2: gonna love it, and I did love it. I'm a
Speaker 2: fan of I mean this is I did call them
Speaker 2: nepo babies, which is not a slur, it is true.
Speaker 2: But I'm a fan of, like truly everybody involved in
Speaker 2: this movie. Molly Gordon is amazing. I think Ben Platt
Speaker 2: rips and I kind of don't know who that is
Speaker 2: aside from the context of this movie.
Speaker 3: Like I know he really, I know he's someone I
Speaker 3: should know. I know that dear Evan Hansen is a thing.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2: So Ben Platt is a the star of the stage
Speaker 2: and screen, but I think better known for the stage.
Speaker 2: He is the sun, and as is Molly Gordon. They're
Speaker 2: both children of tremendously successful theater producers who actually at
Speaker 2: theater camp, at a bougie theater camp when they were children.
Speaker 2: So the pictures that you're seeing of them are real,
Speaker 2: they're not photoshopped. But yeah. Ben Platt is best known
Speaker 2: for starring in Dear Evan and Hansen, and also starring
Speaker 2: in the rather unfortunate theatrical adaptation of Dear Evan Hansen,
Speaker 2: which is one of the great Whig crimes of our age.
Speaker 2: Enough has been said about that I will not add
Speaker 2: but Ben Platt. Yeah, he's the son of Mark Platt,
Speaker 2: who I think most famously produced Wicked and also famously
Speaker 2: is a huge Zionist, which Ben Platt is not, so
Speaker 2: we're breaking generational curses. Ben Platt, I have only I
Speaker 2: mean little Hollywood insider stuff. I've just only heard the
Speaker 2: nicest things about him, and that he's like a terrific
Speaker 2: and thoughtful person. There's a story I heard, I've heard
Speaker 2: more than once about Ben Platt and his husband, who
Speaker 2: also appears in this and also played Evan Hansen on Broadway.
Speaker 2: They were the first two Evan Hanson's and then they
Speaker 2: got married. Wow. Now, if that's not a Broadway story
Speaker 2: to Evan Hanson's getting married. Tell me what is? Tell
Speaker 2: me what is? You literally can't, but I it's this
Speaker 2: like lovely story that I've heard many times about. I
Speaker 2: forget who it is. It's like someone I know. Sorry
Speaker 2: if I'm putting them on blast. But they got very
Speaker 2: drunk at a party and were kind of stumbling home
Speaker 2: and on the streets of New York came across Ben
Speaker 2: Platt and his husband, which she doesn't remember. And Ben
Speaker 2: Platt and his husband Noah Galvin, let's say, because he's
Speaker 2: terrific in the movie as well.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, also one of the screenwriters, Yes yeah.
Speaker 2: Along with a third NEPO baby. A third NEPO Baby
Speaker 2: has hit the production team of Theater Camp. But but
Speaker 2: the two the Evan Hanson's too not just got her
Speaker 2: into an uber and made sure that she made it
Speaker 2: home safely. But when she woke up there was a
Speaker 2: care package from them. I guess she had drunkenly given
Speaker 2: them her phone number and they called her to make
Speaker 2: sure that she was okay. And that was how she
Speaker 2: learned that Ben Platt had gotten her home the previous night.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, And I was just so I think of
Speaker 2: that story. That is just so wholesome. I hope that
Speaker 2: there's not something about Ben Platt that I'm missing because
Speaker 2: I'm really singing his praises. But he got a lot
Speaker 2: of heat for being in the bed Evan Hansen movie,
Speaker 2: and I just he's also in the Pitch Perfect movies,
Speaker 2: which I totally forgot. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I just
Speaker 2: think he's delightful. He's one of our seminal Broadway stars.
Speaker 2: I think he's like one of the millennial Broadway stars.
Speaker 2: And then Molly Gordon also fantastic. I know she had
Speaker 2: done she like her parents are movie and theater producers.
Speaker 2: She'd been off Broadway before I saw her another movie
Speaker 2: she co wrote and starred in last year called Oh Hi, Yes.
Speaker 3: I saw that on a plane recently, in fact, on
Speaker 3: the plane ride to London to see Paddington the Musical.
Speaker 2: And also Caitlin, I can't believe you didn't leave with
Speaker 2: this because you've seen it and I haven't. She's in
Speaker 2: The Sheep Detectives. She sure is.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the Gordon of Sheep Detectives fame.
Speaker 2: Even know she was in the Oh my God. Now
Speaker 2: that's what she's most famous to be for. But she's
Speaker 2: also in BookSmart, Shiva Baby the Bear like Romie. She's
Speaker 2: been in so much and she's also a great writer director.
Speaker 2: This is the exact kind of movie that like never
Speaker 2: gets made, and I like when Nepa babies use their
Speaker 2: powers for good and get a cool movie made. Indeed,
Speaker 2: I did go to summer camp and I did go
Speaker 2: to theater camp, but they were not necessarily the same thing.
Speaker 2: I went to a community theater like summer program, just
Speaker 2: like in my hometown. It was just like a day program.
Speaker 3: Okay, so not like a sleep away camp.
Speaker 2: No. I did go to a sleep away camp, but
Speaker 2: it was religious. My theater camp was in my hometown
Speaker 2: and it was like it was called Act one, Scene
Speaker 2: one in Brockton, Massachusetts. I did it, I think three
Speaker 2: or four times, and it was really fun. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: couldn't afford what happens in this movie, but we had
Speaker 2: We had a nice time. And the I mean, regardless
Speaker 2: of what class you're in, the dynamics of a theater
Speaker 2: camp are pretty much always the same from what I
Speaker 2: can tell. It's just you can't stop theater children from
Speaker 2: being so loud and dramatic. They life will find a
Speaker 2: way regardless. I have like a very clear memory because
Speaker 2: I was I was like never, I was always a
Speaker 2: chorus girl in theater camp. And then once I got
Speaker 2: out of musical theater because I am not a good singer.
Speaker 2: That's not true. I love voice, thank you. I wasn't clearing,
Speaker 2: I wasn't clear. But yeah I did high school. I
Speaker 2: did like high school drama, cob and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: And then my sleep away camp was in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2: My cousin and I got a scholarship to go twice. Okay,
Speaker 2: but it was like this, like Jesus Horse camp.
Speaker 3: Oh, I remember you've talked about this before.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so different experience. I wish I had gone
Speaker 2: to a theater camp. I also went to band camp.
Speaker 2: I went to sleep away band camp.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, missus Obo, missus Obo.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you know, like many children, my parents did
Speaker 2: not want me around in the summer and would apply
Speaker 2: to various scholarships so I wouldn't have to be But
Speaker 2: this is like this, I feel like Presents. It seems
Speaker 2: like it's based on the experiences of the filmmakers, and
Speaker 2: this is like the dream. This is the kind of
Speaker 2: theater camp that I feel like every theater kid wants
Speaker 2: you know, it's beautiful, it's scenic.
Speaker 3: Seems like good vibes all around.
Speaker 2: Everyone who's been there has been there for since time immemorial.
Speaker 2: Like it's it's just awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll
Speaker 3: come back for the recap. Okay, So here's the story
Speaker 3: of theater camp. We meet Joan Rubinski played by Amy Sidaris.
Speaker 2: Love her. I love to start on an Amy like
Speaker 2: you just I just didn't see her coming. She's there barely.
Speaker 2: But and then I was like, wait, how did I
Speaker 2: not know she's in this? And the answer is because
Speaker 2: she kind of isn't right. She worked for two days.
Speaker 3: Because what happens is she runs a summer theater camp
Speaker 3: for kids called adirond Acts get it swish.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: I love the puns in this movie. There's so many.
Speaker 3: She and her colleague re To Cohen played by Caroline
Speaker 3: Aaron are trying to recruit kids and raise money for
Speaker 3: the camp for the upcoming summer, but in a middle
Speaker 3: school production of Bye by Bertie, Joan suffers a strobe
Speaker 3: light related seizure and ends up in a coma. You
Speaker 3: hate to see it, You hate to see it. So
Speaker 3: now Joan's son will take over running the camp. This
Speaker 3: is Troy Rubinski played by Jimmy Tautro, who I most
Speaker 3: recognized from American Vandal. Did you watch that show?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: I did. Yeah, he's been in a lot of stuff,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I throw back because I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: that was almost ten years ago.
Speaker 3: That's scary really, oh my gosh, twenty eighteen lies. Anyway,
Speaker 3: he is super broy like crypto bro kind of guy,
Speaker 3: not a theater kid type at all, so he's very
Speaker 3: out of place in this role of running this theater camp.
Speaker 3: Everyone else starts Arriving at the camp for the summer,
Speaker 3: we meet a couple of the teachers best friends, Rebecca
Speaker 3: Diane played by writer director star Molly Gordon and Amos
Speaker 3: played by Ben Platt, star slash screenwriter. Because the movie
Speaker 3: was co directed by Molly Gordon and Nick Lieberman, who
Speaker 3: also co wrote the screenplay along with Noah Galvin and Ben.
Speaker 2: Platt, it kind of reminds me of I and again,
Speaker 2: I will stop sounding the NEPO baby alarm at this point, sure,
Speaker 2: but it does make me it feels very please don't
Speaker 2: destroy that there is a token not NEPO baby, and
Speaker 2: it is Noah Galvin, God it it's the second Evan Hanson,
Speaker 2: right right? Yes?
Speaker 3: So, Rebecca, Diane and Amos are head of music and
Speaker 3: head of drama respectively.
Speaker 2: At the camp. They are freaking out about Joan not
Speaker 2: being there.
Speaker 3: They hate her son, Troy, and so do all of
Speaker 3: the campers because again, he is not one of them.
Speaker 2: He's a post boloone fan.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Rebecca, Diane and Amos announce all the productions that
Speaker 3: will be going up that summer, including an original that
Speaker 3: they will be writing and directing called Joan Still, a
Speaker 3: tribute to their boss Joan. Meanwhile, Troy has fired several
Speaker 3: teachers in an effort to cut costs because his sort
Speaker 3: of journey throughout most of this movie is trying to
Speaker 3: raise funds for the camp, save money, save the camp financially, etc.
Speaker 3: But he's trying to cut costs, so he fires several
Speaker 3: people and then hires someone to replace them. All this
Speaker 3: is Janet, played by friend of the show Iowa Debris,
Speaker 3: whose resume is stacked, but who is clearly lying about
Speaker 3: all of her experience with things like stage combat, accent work, jousting, etc.
Speaker 2: If there is one thing I could want in this
Speaker 2: movie it's more, I know, but I'm assuming she This
Speaker 2: was a year where she had like five hundred movies
Speaker 2: come out, so I'm assuming that there just could be
Speaker 2: more scenes with her. Yeah, they're all very funny, so funny.
Speaker 3: We also meet characters like technical director Glenn played by
Speaker 3: Noah Galvin, costume designer Gigi played by Owen Teal, and
Speaker 3: head of dance Clive played by Nathan Lee Graham.
Speaker 2: Wait really quick, because there's also none of them get
Speaker 2: like extremely characterized. But I really enjoyed the child cast
Speaker 2: of this movie as well. They're just so talented. I
Speaker 2: would watch a spinoff show with just the kids, sure,
Speaker 2: but my favorite child and I think it's just like
Speaker 2: it reminds me of the kid in School of Rock
Speaker 2: who is like the costume designer slash It or like
Speaker 2: Miranda Cosgrove in School of Rock. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: School of Rock energy to this movie. But I love Alan,
Speaker 2: who plays the tiny manager or like the tiny agent
Speaker 2: aspiring agent. Yeah, a tiny agent is gonna get me
Speaker 2: every single time. So funny. And he's also the kid
Speaker 2: from Manari.
Speaker 3: Yes, that character reminded me of the kid in Wet
Speaker 3: Hot American Summer who is always sort of off on
Speaker 3: his own, broadcasting a radio show that's not actually hooked
Speaker 3: up to anything, so he's not broadcasting, but he's like
Speaker 3: talking into a microphone that's not plugged in, just in
Speaker 3: the sense that they're like both like off on their own,
Speaker 3: kind of doing their own thing, not involved with most
Speaker 3: of the other stuff that's happening.
Speaker 2: Shout out Alan Kim, Yeah, you're a legend. Yeah.
Speaker 3: His character I think is Alan Park. So there's him there.
Speaker 3: There's this kid, Devin. The joke with him is that
Speaker 3: he's straight, but his.
Speaker 2: He's closeted straight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's there because his gay dads sent him
Speaker 3: to theater camp.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 3: There's a teenager named Darla who is one of the
Speaker 3: stars of Joan.
Speaker 2: Still. Yeah, there's there's a bunch of great kids in
Speaker 2: the cast. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, So then it's time for these kids to audition
Speaker 3: and we get a fun montage, but it's interrupted when
Speaker 3: Caroline Krause played by Patty Harrison, comes in. She's a
Speaker 3: financial consultant there on behalf of Camp Lakeside, a nearby
Speaker 3: camp for super rich kids, and she tells Troy that
Speaker 3: the bank is weeks away from foreclosing on Camp Adirondacks
Speaker 3: because of defaults on mortgage payments, but Caroline thinks they
Speaker 3: can work some de out. But technical director Glenn overhears
Speaker 3: this conversation and tells Troy do not do any deals
Speaker 3: with them. Camp Lakeside is like trying to take this land.
Speaker 3: They've been trying to get this land for years. All
Speaker 3: this to say the stakes are high for Camp Adirondacks. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: the counselors deliberate on which kids to cast in which roles.
Speaker 3: The cast lists are posted and there's a mad scramble
Speaker 3: to see who got which part. Some kids are happy,
Speaker 3: some kids are upset. Darla, who we mentioned earlier, is
Speaker 3: cast to play older Joan in Joan Still. Then there's
Speaker 3: a younger girl named Mackenzie who's cast to play like
Speaker 3: the younger Joan. Then we see the kids in classes
Speaker 3: and Janet Clive gg Amos, Rebecca Diane Area. There's another
Speaker 3: fun montage, and even Glenn teaches a class on stage
Speaker 3: managing and lighting and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I appreciated that because of this movie's budget, which was
Speaker 2: not publicly available but like I can't imagine, was especially high,
Speaker 2: made it so that they could only afford to license
Speaker 2: so many Broadway songs obviously, and I can't imagine post
Speaker 2: Malone was cheap at least three years ago. It might
Speaker 2: be cheap now, but in any case that they had
Speaker 2: to like write some Broadway sounding shows for the audition montage,
Speaker 2: even though obviously Joan still is all original music. But like,
Speaker 2: there are some things that I was like, what is
Speaker 2: that from? And the answer is nowhere, So good job movie.
Speaker 3: But when one kid auditions with a Wicked song, yes,
Speaker 3: define gravity, and they probably had access to that.
Speaker 2: Because because of Zionist Mark Platt. Yeah Mark Platt. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't even want to like Sully this discussion with
Speaker 2: his politics, but he sucks ass. But that is very
Speaker 2: likely why they were able to use Wicked specifically, right
Speaker 2: right right, yeah.
Speaker 3: Anyway, so we see this montage of the counselors teaching
Speaker 3: various classes, including Glenn. Although we've been getting some hints
Speaker 3: that Glenn is a talented performer in addition to being
Speaker 3: a talented behind the scenes person, this.
Speaker 2: Is my favorite, Like, I am such a sucker for
Speaker 2: this narrative, even if, like with Glenn, you can see
Speaker 2: it coming from one hundred miles away. But It's like
Speaker 2: seeing Lady Gaga step on stage during A Star is
Speaker 2: Born and you're like, I wonder if she'll be good
Speaker 2: and turns out twist she is. And Noah Galvin, who's
Speaker 2: like a decorated Broadway star, turns out they got pipes. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So so then Rebecca, Dianne and Amos start writing Joanes
Speaker 3: Still and then start rehearsing it with the cast. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: Troy is trying to raise money for the camp, so
Speaker 3: he hosts a dinner with potential donors slash investors and
Speaker 3: has some of the campers act as wait staff to
Speaker 3: serve them the meal. Very theatrically because he's also starting
Speaker 3: to He's also trying to understand the theater kids and
Speaker 3: like meet them on their level kind of thing.
Speaker 2: The thing with Troy that I appreciate is like a
Speaker 2: stock character that I is like fairly new but I'm
Speaker 2: growing to really appreciate, which is like the gentle himbo. Sure,
Speaker 2: because I feel like twenty years ago this character would
Speaker 2: be written as wildly homophobic, as hateful to the entire
Speaker 2: project of theater. But he's just like kind of clueless
Speaker 2: but curious, and I like the gentle himbo and Jimmy
Speaker 2: Tetro has played place any a gentle hymbo. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm into this new but I'm I'm coining of well,
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe the trope has been coined, but
Speaker 2: I'm coining the stock character and I'm claiming him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: illiterate but gentle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm fine with this character as well. You
Speaker 3: know himbos, But well, the whole thing with a himbo
Speaker 3: is that they they do tend to be They're nice
Speaker 3: but stupid. They're like clueless, but they're like sweet and
Speaker 3: gentle usually so right, So that's him in a nutshell anyway,
Speaker 3: He's he's like trying, He's he's trying to understand what
Speaker 3: his mom does here. He's starting to appreciate what she
Speaker 3: has done to build up this camp and build this community,
Speaker 3: and he wants to keep the camp going. But this
Speaker 3: dinner that he hosts goes poorly and he doesn't get
Speaker 3: any investors involved. Meanwhile, Rebecca Diane is receiving mysterious phone
Speaker 3: calls about oh, is she available that night for something
Speaker 3: but we don't know what, and then she keeps disappearing
Speaker 3: when she's supposed to be doing like a performance for
Speaker 3: the campers. She disappears when she's supposed to be at
Speaker 3: the annual mixer with Camp Lakeside, and Amos keeps being like,
Speaker 3: where the hell is my best friend?
Speaker 2: What is she up to? We don't know?
Speaker 3: And at said mixer, Troy really hits it off with
Speaker 3: the banker Caroline and he signs the camp over to her,
Speaker 3: though sort of accidentally he like doesn't really realize what
Speaker 3: he's doing. He misunderstands the deal, but either way, he's
Speaker 3: fucked up and he has like signed the camp over,
Speaker 3: which most people do not know about. Most of the
Speaker 3: counselors are aware of this. Then it's tech Week where
Speaker 3: they're doing all the tech rehearsals and everyone is scrambling
Speaker 3: to get all the productions ready, especially Glenn, who everyone
Speaker 3: is making all of these demands of. He's running around
Speaker 3: all day doing everything behind the.
Speaker 2: Scenes, everything but singing.
Speaker 3: Yet meanwhile, Amos is pissed at Rebecca for not being around,
Speaker 3: and he has not seen the big finale for Joan
Speaker 3: Still that she was supposed to be working on, and
Speaker 3: it's clear that she still hasn't written it, but she
Speaker 3: pretends like she has and improvs this terrible song on
Speaker 3: the spot and Amos is like, what the fuck was that,
Speaker 3: and she reveals that she has been preoccupied because she
Speaker 3: recently got a job. She signed a two year contract
Speaker 3: to perform on a cruise ship because she she wants
Speaker 3: to be a performer and not solely a teacher. And
Speaker 3: she feels that Amos has maybe been holding her back
Speaker 3: and she's made various sacrifices to stay working with him,
Speaker 3: but she's done doing that, and Amos feels utterly betrayed.
Speaker 3: Then Caroline comes in to announce that Camp Lakeside has
Speaker 3: bought Camp Adirondacks and they're about to tear it down.
Speaker 3: The kids are horrified. It's chaos. It's unclear if Joan
Speaker 3: Still will be taking place because it seems like it's
Speaker 3: dead in the water. But then Troy realizes that the
Speaker 3: contract he signed says that Camp Lakeside can only take
Speaker 3: over Camp Adirondacks if the bank forecloses on it, but
Speaker 3: if they prevent that from happening, they can still save
Speaker 3: the camp. So Troy goes to Glenn to encourage him
Speaker 3: to revive the production of Joan Still since Rebecca and
Speaker 3: Amos have kind of bailed on it. Yes and then
Speaker 3: Troy invites a bunch of his business influencer buddies to
Speaker 3: the show as potential investors in the camp. But oh no,
Speaker 3: the star of Joan still, Darla, is leaving early, leaving
Speaker 3: before the performance because she booked a movie role.
Speaker 2: I love that so much of Ben Platt's troubles towards
Speaker 2: the end of this movie have to are involved with
Speaker 2: like low stakes opportunities for women. He's relying on.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, true, because Darla is like, I got a
Speaker 3: role in a movie about a pregnant gymnast, so I
Speaker 3: have to go do that.
Speaker 2: But he says like a line, Oh god, it made
Speaker 2: me laugh. He's like, I'm not in a place where
Speaker 2: I can handle industry sides right now. And it's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he agrees to help her prep for the
Speaker 3: role anyway, and he's like, Okay, what are this character's allergies?
Speaker 2: And she's like what and he's like, oh, we have
Speaker 2: so much work to do, You're useless. It's so funny.
Speaker 3: Anyway, So Darla's leaving, so we're like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: who's gonna play old Joan. The show begins. The songs
Speaker 3: are wild. They were making me laugh.
Speaker 2: They're good. I also, like, I just the number of
Speaker 2: like really fun theater tropes that are like gotten into
Speaker 2: here and the fact that it's done by like legitimately
Speaker 2: very talented kids. It just is making me emotional the whole.
Speaker 2: Like it reminded me of like how to succeed in
Speaker 2: business without even trying, where they're like stocks stocks, stocks,
Speaker 2: and then like how And I say this with love,
Speaker 2: but the way that theater portrays addictions sometimes is so
Speaker 2: corny and over the top, and they're like que the
Speaker 2: cocaine and it's like the paper machine.
Speaker 3: Also, the first song is about how women can't read, but.
Speaker 2: Like but that also feels very like tongue in cheek
Speaker 2: of like raw, especially the further you go back in theater,
Speaker 2: how broad and corny immigration stories could be told. It
Speaker 2: all feels like done with I mean obviously like experience
Speaker 2: of the actual like theater, but just with so much
Speaker 2: affection for it, even the like problematic and corny parts.
Speaker 3: Right, well, the song itself is obviously problematic, but you
Speaker 3: see like the audience members like looking at each other
Speaker 3: being like what the fuck is this?
Speaker 2: What? It's satire? Yeah, so it's good satire. It's great.
Speaker 3: So Joan still is is happening, and then we get
Speaker 3: the reveal that old Joan is being played by Glenn,
Speaker 3: who does an amazing job.
Speaker 2: I also love the little tongue in cheek of like
Speaker 2: the fact that they're married to each other and that
Speaker 2: when Glenn is good, Ben Platt is like, I'm genuinely upset.
Speaker 2: I'm genuinely upset about it. He's like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: he's amazing, which is such a theater like, just, oh,
Speaker 2: what is more show business than resenting the success of
Speaker 2: a loved one? Come on, it's true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then it's time for the big finale, which
Speaker 3: is partly Rebecca Diane's improved version of the song, but
Speaker 3: it turns out that she ended up finishing it and
Speaker 3: polishing it and it's actually pretty good.
Speaker 2: And during this and of course it's a spoken word
Speaker 2: portion like here's how theater changed my life. And and the ending,
Speaker 2: I will say, is done pretty.
Speaker 3: Sincere uh where like the kids like the Camper's like
Speaker 3: expressing how important camp is to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like most lines in that concluding song, like
Speaker 2: there are some joke lines, but for the most part
Speaker 2: like the message of the song, Unlike the song about
Speaker 2: where women shouldn't be allowed to read. And one of
Speaker 2: my favorite jokes in the movie Jeffka is dead, yeah,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Like, but it is like a very sincere
Speaker 2: song about how theater camp can change your life, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, makes total sense given why we have this
Speaker 2: movie for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's really sweet and yeah sentimental. And during
Speaker 3: this song, Amos and Rebecca Diane apologize to each other
Speaker 3: and they have a tearful reconciliation. And then the text
Speaker 3: on screen says that Troy's influencer buddies loved the show,
Speaker 3: but it turns out they have no money to invest
Speaker 3: and they are under investigation by the SEC. But someone
Speaker 3: else makes a sizable donation to the camp because the
Speaker 3: show really spoke to him. It's Troy's Airbnb guest, which very.
Speaker 2: Last minute I silly Desx Airbnb guest exactly. Yeah. I
Speaker 2: learned just the other day from a friend of the show,
Speaker 2: Molly Lambert. Did you know that that convention of like
Speaker 2: the where are they now? Or like here's what happened next?
Speaker 2: Thing was invented by George Lucas. No, according to Molly,
Speaker 2: I haven't in American Graffiti, Okay, a movie I have
Speaker 2: not seen, but apparently that was like not a common
Speaker 2: thing to do in movies prior to that. But there's
Speaker 2: a silly character that I guess we meet in American Graffiti,
Speaker 2: a movie I would like to see and sounds like
Speaker 2: it would be worth covering, but like it's a you know,
Speaker 2: teen movie, and they do that thing at the end
Speaker 2: where it's like, here's where this teenager ended up. Here's
Speaker 2: where this teenager ended up, and one of them it
Speaker 2: just says, without further comment, he died in Vietnam, which
Speaker 2: was obviously like a big George Lucas political Like I mean,
Speaker 2: George Lucas was very anti Vietnam example Star Wars and
Speaker 2: New Hope or not anti Vietnam, anti the Vietnam War, right,
Speaker 2: But anyways, I just I now, every time I see that,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be like, wow, that was George Lucas's idea.
Speaker 2: I had no idea. But they're used very frequently in mockumentaries. Yes,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't realize that I've seen American Graffiti, but
Speaker 3: it was it was during the great Caitlyn movie binge
Speaker 3: of two thousand and five, so it was decades ago, yes,
Speaker 3: but yeah, so we get all these all this text
Speaker 3: on screen about like where are they now? But the
Speaker 3: camp is saved, it.
Speaker 2: Seems, and we even get to see Amy Sedaris one
Speaker 2: more time.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, she wakes up and she's like, don't let
Speaker 3: Troy run the camp.
Speaker 2: It's very funny. But yeah, that is the movies.
Speaker 3: So let's take a quick break and we'll come back
Speaker 3: to discuss, and we're back where to begin.
Speaker 2: I feel like for me because we've recently covered a
Speaker 2: we okay, this is a good plug for the Matreon.
Speaker 2: If you haven't been a matran subscriber, which you can
Speaker 2: do right now Patreon dot com. Slash back to past
Speaker 2: five dollars a month gets you access to two new
Speaker 2: movies a month, as well as a back catalog of
Speaker 2: over two hundred episodes. That said, we recently did Catherine
Speaker 2: O'Hara month, who is a mockumentary icon because of her
Speaker 2: appearances in Christopher Guestswork, and so many of the notes
Speaker 2: that we had about Best in Show which we cover
Speaker 2: are fully like this just feels like a more mature
Speaker 2: version of that of that format where there are some
Speaker 2: dated stereotypes around where people that appear in that movie
Speaker 2: and in basically every movie that came out in the
Speaker 2: two thousands. Unfortunately that by the time we get to
Speaker 2: Molly Gordon, Ben Platt, Noah Galvin, and the fourth guy,
Speaker 2: Nick Lieberman, shout out to him that like this is
Speaker 2: a just like fully queer satire, of like a very
Speaker 2: loving queer satire, and I love it. It's like everything that
Speaker 2: you would want from a mockumentary without the dated, problematic
Speaker 2: elements of watching certain documentaries. Totally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I And again I can't speak from personal
Speaker 3: experience about the theater camp experience or being a theater kid,
Speaker 3: but from everything I've read and heard from people.
Speaker 2: It definitely gets it, Like I think gets it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: especially given like who is making this movie where it's
Speaker 2: like you're a hard pressed to tell to Evan Hansen's
Speaker 2: that they got the theater community wrong. They definitely got it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Just to share a quote from Noah Galvin, he spoke
Speaker 3: to Glad at I believe the premiere of this movie,
Speaker 3: which was at sun Dance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so pre strike. So they got to promote it
Speaker 2: a little bit, and then they had to stop promoting
Speaker 2: it and then I think I don't remember if the
Speaker 2: sag let me check when the SAG strike ended.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't remember the exact date.
Speaker 2: I think it was after yes, So yeah, so the
Speaker 2: writers strike I believe ended sometime in the late spring
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, so they could promote it in
Speaker 2: a writing capacity, but SAG was on strike until November
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, which is why most of the
Speaker 2: promo you'll find for this movie was prior to both strikes,
Speaker 2: because for the most part, it's like you have to
Speaker 2: imagine Ben Platt and Molly Gordon and Noah Alvin are
Speaker 2: both members of the WGA and SAG. SAG. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: a little bit of a little bit of strike lore
Speaker 2: going on there, yes, But yeah, before that they were
Speaker 2: able to promote it.
Speaker 3: It premiered its sun Dance. Glad was there and they
Speaker 3: were talking to various members of the cast and the
Speaker 3: creative minds behind this movie, and we're just kind of
Speaker 3: asking about, like what makes theater such a safe space
Speaker 3: for the queer community, because many of the characters in
Speaker 3: this movie are queer.
Speaker 2: Many you say, cast if one of the like crucial
Speaker 2: jokes is a young boy coming out as straight, to say,
Speaker 2: almost everybody in this movie is queer or queer coded exactly. Yes.
Speaker 3: So Noah Galvin says this quote, theater is a space
Speaker 3: for people to express themselves and try on different personalities
Speaker 3: and step into other people's shoes, and I think it
Speaker 3: gives people the freedom to really explore. And I think
Speaker 3: throughout those processes of being able to try on different
Speaker 3: costumes and selves, you end up really finding your authentic
Speaker 3: being unquote.
Speaker 2: Which that's beautiful, Which is.
Speaker 3: A sentiment that resonates throughout the movie where it's so
Speaker 3: clear that the kids and the counselors have found their
Speaker 3: people and their community at theater camp, and they are
Speaker 3: among people who they feel comfortable, you know, being themselves
Speaker 3: around and exploring themselves around, and that they're wary of
Speaker 3: someone like Troy because he represents the type of person
Speaker 3: who typically doesn't embrace them and doesn't make them feel
Speaker 3: comfortable to be themselves. Like there's that moment when Amos
Speaker 3: goes up to Troy to be like, kids are here
Speaker 3: because they found community. They're sort of like the outcasts
Speaker 3: from heteronormative society and they are accepted here and they
Speaker 3: belong here, and you're not one of us, because like
Speaker 3: Troy is this like super BROI he's a jock totally.
Speaker 3: There's one of my favorite moments is when he is
Speaker 3: like up at the podium in the like cafeteria area
Speaker 3: and he's like talking into the microphone and then some kid.
Speaker 2: Just goes sis head bitch. It's so funny.
Speaker 3: But but to your point, Troy like comes around or
Speaker 3: he doesn't fall into that like stereotype of being like
Speaker 3: super toxic sis head bro guy who's gonna reject everyone
Speaker 3: he sees because.
Speaker 2: Now and it's like as misguided and the I don't know,
Speaker 2: like every Patty Harrison character is the funniest character in
Speaker 2: a movie and it's just like too bad for anyone
Speaker 2: else who was in a movie with her. But his
Speaker 2: whole thing was like I appreciate it. It was and
Speaker 2: I feel like this is normal for mockumentaries. There's really
Speaker 2: only room for like one or two actual emotional arcs
Speaker 2: and then you're getting just like a lot of characters,
Speaker 2: which is definitely true for this. It's very focused around Rebecca,
Speaker 2: Diane and Amos's friendship. Yeah, but I do like that
Speaker 2: with Troy, you get the feeling that like this whole
Speaker 2: journey in spite of the fact that he like has
Speaker 2: one brain cell is like he's trying to save his
Speaker 2: mom's business. He's trying to like and in the process
Speaker 2: is like learning and better understanding who she is and
Speaker 2: how loved she is in this community that he has
Speaker 2: never really been a part of, which you know, it's
Speaker 2: like clearly not like the emotional thrust of the movie.
Speaker 2: Sorry for saying thrust. I mean music to my ears.
Speaker 2: I know it's kind of your thing. Sorry, it's okay,
Speaker 2: but you know, I appreciate that that is like present.
Speaker 2: And again it's like, there were so many lazy tropes
Speaker 2: that if this was written by a straight guy twenty
Speaker 2: years ago probably would have been present and isn't here,
Speaker 2: which I think is one of the this movie's many
Speaker 2: strengths is that this movie is written primarily by women
Speaker 2: and queer people. I don't really again, sorry to Nick Lueberman,
Speaker 2: I don't really know anything about him. So while there is,
Speaker 2: as we discussed at the beginning, certainly a lot of
Speaker 2: privilege to the primary creative team, the movie is also
Speaker 2: written and directed by women and gay men, and that's
Speaker 2: who you want to be writing a movie about theater camp,
Speaker 2: especially someone who like the specificity. I mean, there's a
Speaker 2: specific dynamic in this movie that I'm excited to talk about,
Speaker 2: which is like a codependent again, it's like something that
Speaker 2: we've seen in tropier ways, But there's this codependent friendship
Speaker 2: that exists between Rebecca, Diane and Amos that evolves over
Speaker 2: time that I'm sure many people have seen themselves in.
Speaker 2: I saw myself in this relationship between them, where it's
Speaker 2: like a same straight or a woman who's attracted to
Speaker 2: men who falls in love with her best friend who
Speaker 2: turns out to be gay and not interested, and then
Speaker 2: it's like okay, processes that information and then the two
Speaker 2: of them go on to form one of the most
Speaker 2: codependent friendships to ever exist. It is such a unique dynamic,
Speaker 2: and it's so specific, and it is expressed I think
Speaker 2: even in the like even though it's over the top,
Speaker 2: it's so loving and I just really agree and that
Speaker 2: like they build in a way that I think again
Speaker 2: like a lesser, less tapped in writer group would have,
Speaker 2: you know, basically American pied it and turned it into
Speaker 2: this like big broad goofy story. There are like real
Speaker 2: dynamics that exist obviously within that friendship, as would any
Speaker 2: like of professional rivalry of like I am afraid of
Speaker 2: you succeeding in ways that I'm not because what does
Speaker 2: that say about me? And what does that say about us?
Speaker 2: And just I don't know. I feel like this movie
Speaker 2: really nails this specific friendship dynamic and in a greater sense,
Speaker 2: codependent friendship dynamics in general.
Speaker 3: Totally another hilarious joke. A lot of my notes for
Speaker 3: this movie is just I've written down all the funny
Speaker 3: joke that I like that's in the movie, and that's
Speaker 3: feminism because the movie is just so damn funny. But
Speaker 3: there's a scene where the counselors are gathered around a
Speaker 3: campfire and kind of sharing stories and experiences, and Io's
Speaker 3: character says something like, Yeah, it seems like the two
Speaker 3: of you have a really codependent friendship, and Amos is like, no,
Speaker 3: we don't. We just heavily depend on each other.
Speaker 2: It's like, uh, there's I mean, obviously, codependent friendships exist
Speaker 2: across the sexuality spectrum, but there is something very specific
Speaker 2: about this codependent friendship that felt both loving and familiar.
Speaker 2: And I would imagine a lot of this movie's target
Speaker 2: demographic knows what the shape of this friendship is. Definitely,
Speaker 2: and I do like that this movie has the courage,
Speaker 2: and I do think it is brave to have not
Speaker 2: every character be successful to the extent that they wanted
Speaker 2: to be at the end of the movie. It's something
Speaker 2: that I always really like about Christopher Guest movies as well,
Speaker 2: where I feel like, very often this convention of like,
Speaker 2: and here's what happened to them is used to be
Speaker 2: like and don't worry whatever struggles they were having. At
Speaker 2: the end of the movie, they went on to achieve
Speaker 2: their wildest dreams, and in this case, like that's not true.
Speaker 2: They end up basically normal, which in some ways you
Speaker 2: could say is hilarious coming from Ben Platten, Molly Gordon
Speaker 2: to objectively very successful people. But just from a writing perspective,
Speaker 2: I did appreciate that, like he continues at the theater camp,
Speaker 2: and I think maybe my favorite joke is he starts
Speaker 2: the check off like theater program for children of divorce,
Speaker 2: which is just a great joke. And that Rebecca Diane,
Speaker 2: you know, does like go on to experience success, but
Speaker 2: like she arrives at the bottom of the middle of
Speaker 2: theater success, which is like playing a minor role on
Speaker 2: a cruise ship. And I really, I really liked that.
Speaker 2: I feel like at the end of those movies you expect,
Speaker 2: especially in I think like twenty tens and twenty twenty
Speaker 2: movie culture, where everyone needs to have a redemption arc
Speaker 2: and like we there is, especially movies directed at younger audiences.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about more recent Pixar movies too, where it's
Speaker 2: like no one is allowed to leave with a bad
Speaker 2: feeling and no one can die or get a boo boo.
Speaker 2: This is me being a Republican.
Speaker 3: I guess, wow, these Snufflake movies.
Speaker 2: I'm Tucker Carlson. No, but I am really like we
Speaker 2: need to be pushing villains off cliffs and failures should
Speaker 2: be an.
Speaker 3: Option, Quitting should be an option. Yeah, yeah, Like life
Speaker 3: is messy life. You heard it here first, and it
Speaker 3: should be represented that way on screen.
Speaker 2: Take it from a podcast or in year ten. Things
Speaker 2: don't always work out the way you expected. Wow, j.
Speaker 3: This was your lifelong dreams.
Speaker 2: You know you're right, You're right. But I liked where
Speaker 2: everybody landed at the end of the movie. I thought
Speaker 2: it was very charming.
Speaker 3: Right because like at the end of Legally Blonde, for example,
Speaker 3: it's like an Elle Woods graduates Magna Kum Laude of
Speaker 3: Harvard Law School and goes on to be the best
Speaker 3: lawyer ever.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately with Ellwood's I guess I will make an exception.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I believe it. I believe that she did that,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't know. I just this is again,
Speaker 2: like the dynamics in this movie are so specific and
Speaker 2: so like broad but also I guess specific and broad
Speaker 2: at the same time, which is just like a good satire.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of other characters, characters I would
Speaker 2: have liked to see more of, but I'm assuming we
Speaker 2: were not able to because of availability. This is I mean,
Speaker 2: especially in like a cast this large, you have to
Speaker 2: imagine that they were not always able to get a
Speaker 2: ton of people all the time. But Owen Teel is
Speaker 2: so funny and so talented and plays GG. Yes, he
Speaker 2: plays GG and has been in so many things in
Speaker 2: the last couple of years, but I feel like has
Speaker 2: yet to have like his big moment. I'm looking forward
Speaker 2: to it. He was in Overcompensating and Adults, two shows
Speaker 2: I iconically have not watched, but I hear people like
Speaker 2: and he also is a NEPO baby, because you have
Speaker 2: to be to be in this movie. Of course, let's
Speaker 2: see what else. Oh and Nathan Lee Graham as Clive,
Speaker 2: who just I have to assume like he just like
Speaker 2: was not available because he's on stage constantly, just a legend.
Speaker 3: We talked about him recently because he's he has a
Speaker 3: small role in Hitch He Dies and Zoolander.
Speaker 2: He's been in so many movies we've covered because he's
Speaker 2: also in Sweet Home Alabama. Oh right, yeah, he's in
Speaker 2: everything and originated one of the Broadway roles of Priscilla,
Speaker 2: Queen of the Desert. So oh, no kidding, there's so
Speaker 2: many Nathan Lee Graham overlaps certainly a queer icon, and
Speaker 2: the love for theater in this movie is clear. And
Speaker 2: then and then you have like a few people from
Speaker 2: the comedy world as well. You have obviously like Amy Sedaris,
Speaker 2: who I don't know if she's ever done Broadway. I
Speaker 2: feel like she has, but I don't know. I don't
Speaker 2: know either. Her energy to me says yes, let me,
Speaker 2: let me, let me check this. Yes, okay, actually so much. Yes, okay,
Speaker 2: so that makes sense. So she's Broadway. But with I
Speaker 2: love I like Io and Patty are so well used
Speaker 2: in this movie. Patty's character like who becomes a larger
Speaker 2: character than you expect in a really fun way. She
Speaker 2: becomes like Jimmy Tatro's love interest. But it doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like they're gonna end together because I'm pretty sure the
Speaker 2: last you hear of her, she's like, this sucks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she doesn't like the production of Joan Still. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: that's his mother. That's his mom, and he's like she
Speaker 3: feels so endeared by the performances.
Speaker 2: I was really kind of taken. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 2: Jimmy Tattra is moving me right now. This is crazy.
Speaker 2: It's just like it's a great ensemble cast. There are
Speaker 2: certain people that I would have liked to see more of.
Speaker 2: I think, like we were talking about Owen Teal Nathane
Speaker 2: graham Io to that point.
Speaker 3: One of my notes about this movie is that it
Speaker 3: does center like the cast at the very center of
Speaker 3: this movie are white actors, and it is a racially
Speaker 3: diverse cast, but the main characters are predominantly white, and
Speaker 3: all the characters that I would have liked to see
Speaker 3: more of two like you said, Gg Clive Janet, tend
Speaker 3: to be non white actors and characters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I do think is more of a contemporary
Speaker 2: thing that I've noticed. I don't know if you've ever
Speaker 2: like specifically talked about it, but having a diverse setting
Speaker 2: but not necessarily a diverse movie in terms of whose
Speaker 2: stories are prioritized where I don't know whatever, pretending this
Speaker 2: movie came out in two thousand and three not twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three, I think we would have a story that
Speaker 2: centers white actors and they're surrounded by white actors. I
Speaker 2: mean Christopher Guest's movies are a great example of this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but now it's like we are still primarily especially like
Speaker 2: and this it wasn't a gigantic release, but it was
Speaker 2: released by Searchlight, like it was a big enough release
Speaker 2: for this to be a worthy criticism. It still centers
Speaker 2: white stories, but they're in a more diverse environment, which
Speaker 2: is maybe like not the flex that it seems like
Speaker 2: right in any case, and there's there's always I will
Speaker 2: qualify that with like, I have no idea what this like.
Speaker 2: It's very possible think certainly with people like Io who
Speaker 2: are like constantly working, Oh, Intel is working a lot
Speaker 2: like that. This is just like how it shook out
Speaker 2: based on availability, but does feel worth mentioning.
Speaker 3: And I mean you know, you look at the writing
Speaker 3: and directing team and it's like they're broughtting themselves as
Speaker 3: the main characters, which is understandable, this happens a lot.
Speaker 3: But also it's like, Okay, who gets the opportunity to write, direct,
Speaker 3: and star in their own movies? It is usually white people.
Speaker 2: And white people from very privileged backgrounds, right, which is
Speaker 2: what this movie is. And again it's like I say that,
Speaker 2: Do I say that out of bitterness, yes, but it
Speaker 2: is also like worth mentioning in a way that I hope,
Speaker 2: like it doesn't take away from their you know, artistry,
Speaker 2: Like they're this movie is really good. They're talented writers
Speaker 2: and performers and also objectively, they're going to get to
Speaker 2: the front of the line each and every time because
Speaker 2: of how society works. Yes, I honestly don't have a
Speaker 2: lot else to say about this movie, just that I
Speaker 2: think it's so funny and there are so many hilarious
Speaker 2: jokes puns that I loved. The Gentra Vacation Project, the
Speaker 2: Caroline Helms, Yeah, that was her brainchild. That was her brainchild.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Troy is doing on Troy preneurship funny.
Speaker 2: Okay, I had to hate that one. But I it's this, like,
Speaker 2: this movie is everything that I feel like we're constantly
Speaker 2: being told are the kinds of movies you just don't
Speaker 2: get anymore. And I think it is like a nice
Speaker 2: reminder that we do get movies like this with some frequency.
Speaker 2: They're just like way harder to get made and seen
Speaker 2: than they once were because Hollywood studios don't invest in
Speaker 2: promoting original stories like this. Yeah. Yeah, So if you're wondering, like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, why aren't they making like these fun
Speaker 2: indie style movies like they used to, they are, you
Speaker 2: just have to look harder for them, unfortunately. Totally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people are always saying like, oh, everything that comes
Speaker 3: out is a Marvel or a Star Wars or whatever
Speaker 3: other huge franchise movies, big studio IP movies, and that
Speaker 3: is a lot of what comes out and a lot
Speaker 3: of what gets the big budgets and all the promo.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But in this year alone, twenty twenty three, when Theater
Speaker 3: Camp came out, there was also Dix the Musical, which.
Speaker 2: Was another movie that didn't get it's due.
Speaker 3: Totally Polite Society came out this year, Wicked Little Letters
Speaker 3: came out that year. One of my favorite films from
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. It's fun and.
Speaker 2: The thing that is and I guess like it that's
Speaker 2: not even we're not even criticizing the audience for this,
Speaker 2: because I feel like there is just like so much
Speaker 2: gaslighting in the way that, like the way that people
Speaker 2: are told quote unquote what audiences want, because if you
Speaker 2: look at like box office numbers, to get pedantic for
Speaker 2: a second, if you look at box office numbers for
Speaker 2: these like big tent pole like Marvels or Marvel style releases,
Speaker 2: they're making way less money than they used to because
Speaker 2: people get burnt out, they get sick of seeing the
Speaker 2: same kind of movie over and over and over. And
Speaker 2: original stories are doing much better even though they you know,
Speaker 2: still often need and this has been true forever, like
Speaker 2: some star power to get them out there. I'm like
Speaker 2: thinking about the drama as a recent example of like
Speaker 2: that movie made over one hundred million dollars and it's
Speaker 2: an original story, whether you liked it or not, Like
Speaker 2: it's a great case study for it, and it's like
Speaker 2: people want to see original stories. But I feel like
Speaker 2: we're still kind of that most original stories, especially if
Speaker 2: you don't have a huge star or you don't have
Speaker 2: a rich parent or whatever. It is like, it's just
Speaker 2: going to be harder for your work to get seen.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that it is happening. And you know,
Speaker 2: the next time you see a headline that's like, no
Speaker 2: one wants to see original stories, that's why we're disinvesting
Speaker 2: in them. It's just not true. It's just not true.
Speaker 2: It's like the same. I feel like we've had this
Speaker 2: conversation around like movies for women and specifically older women
Speaker 2: of like how I think of like The First Wives
Speaker 2: Club example, While and while that is like a wealthy
Speaker 2: white movie, but that was a great case study for oh, well,
Speaker 2: we don't think this audience exists, and then it very
Speaker 2: much existed. Black Panther, same thing, even though that's a
Speaker 2: Marvel movie. They're like, there's no market for a black
Speaker 2: superhero and then it makes a billion dollars. It's just okay,
Speaker 2: that's that's my little rant for the day. You're so true.
Speaker 3: Also, Bottoms came out this year. So like some of
Speaker 3: the funniest movies that have come out in recent years,
Speaker 3: many of them came out in twenty twenty three. These
Speaker 3: were all original stories, lower budget films. That were so
Speaker 3: funny and smart and.
Speaker 2: Did find their audience it just they but didn't get
Speaker 2: the push they deserved exactly.
Speaker 3: Do you have anything else you want to talk about?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, this is just like a good If you haven't
Speaker 2: seen this movie, it is, I believe on Hulu, and
Speaker 2: it's a great movie to like, invite some friends over
Speaker 2: and have some fun. I have yet to hear of
Speaker 2: a theater fan friend who has a negative thing to
Speaker 2: say about this movie. Like they did it right, They
Speaker 2: sure did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like you said, it does pass the Bechdel test,
Speaker 3: it does. Yeah, And we already talked about it at
Speaker 3: the top of this show. I don't think we need
Speaker 3: to be labor the point any further. But what about
Speaker 3: our nipple scale, the Bechdel cast nipple scale where or
Speaker 3: the Bechtel camp Y scale where we rate the movie
Speaker 3: on a scale of zero to five nipples examining it
Speaker 3: through an intersectional feminist lens.
Speaker 2: Right, Ray, Ray, I'm gonna give it.
Speaker 3: I think like a three point seventy five nice It's
Speaker 3: doing pretty well. The representation we see is very diverse
Speaker 3: across gender sexuality. I would say to a lesser extent race,
Speaker 3: because again the movie does center the white characters, but
Speaker 3: there's body diversity.
Speaker 2: We see.
Speaker 3: It's a very inclusive group generally. Again, one of the
Speaker 3: sentiments that keeps being expressed throughout the movie is uh
Speaker 3: and that, like the asked and the filmmakers have talked
Speaker 3: about when they speak about this movie and they speak
Speaker 3: about theater camp and theater kids and just theater experience
Speaker 3: in general, that it is an inclusive group and that
Speaker 3: everyone is welcome because you know, like Island of Misfit
Speaker 3: Toys kind of thing. So there's places where I think
Speaker 3: it could have been more inclusive in general, but it's
Speaker 3: it's doing a great job.
Speaker 2: It's so funny.
Speaker 3: There's so many good jokes in this movie. The cast
Speaker 3: is terrific. The Jones still should be winning Tony's.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you enjoy the soundtrack of the movie,
Speaker 2: it did come out. I do believe it is streaming,
Speaker 2: which is kind of as is Dicks the musical. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel like twenty twenty three was a great year
Speaker 2: for musical comedies that were under promoted. And it's a crime,
Speaker 2: and it's a crime to humanity, and in the twenty twenties,
Speaker 2: for some reason we have no idea or willingness how
Speaker 2: to promote musicals anyway. It's true. So three point seventy five,
Speaker 2: who are you giving them to?
Speaker 3: Oh, just everybody, everyone in the cast and crew, because
Speaker 3: behind the scenes people matter too, as we see with Glen.
Speaker 2: Glen, I will I'll meet you there. I think that
Speaker 2: for our metric. Yeah, there are certainly like a few
Speaker 2: notes on the rampometer on the amount of fun this
Speaker 2: movie is ten out of ten, and that it's like doing.
Speaker 2: I think it is like a clear progression in this
Speaker 2: genre specifically that is like very encouraging and very cool
Speaker 2: and is a more inclusive approach to the mockumentary genre
Speaker 2: that we don't always get. And yeah, it's super funny.
Speaker 2: I really love it and you should watch it if
Speaker 2: you haven't. I am going to give my nipples too.
Speaker 2: I guess I'll just split my three point five nipples
Speaker 2: among the writers, but I'll give two to Molly Gordon
Speaker 2: because I'm a really big fan of her work. I
Speaker 2: think Rebecca Diane is so funny and I also felt
Speaker 2: very seen by her.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, there you have it. You can follow
Speaker 3: us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to
Speaker 3: the aforementioned Matreon at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 3: You you already said that all the things, two hundred
Speaker 3: plus episodes in the back catalog, that you get access
Speaker 3: to two brand new episodes every month on an amazing theme.
Speaker 2: And that's where you can hear. Most of our mockumentary
Speaker 2: episodes I believe are over on the Matreon.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because we've done best and show, we've done
Speaker 3: what we do in the shadows, among others, others.
Speaker 2: We've been doing the show for ten years. Please be
Speaker 2: patient with us. Grandma's are going to bed. Yeah, but yes,
Speaker 2: if you if you want more, there is there is
Speaker 2: so much more. And it's also just like such a
Speaker 2: fun community. And we will be announcing our ten yure
Speaker 2: tour later in the yearth and you will get first
Speaker 2: path at tickets if you are a matron, So head
Speaker 2: over there for that. And with that, let's go audition
Speaker 2: for the next regional production of Joan Still I'm there,
Speaker 2: Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,
Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 3: And me Caitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by
Speaker 3: Sophie Lichtermann and.
Speaker 2: Edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of them? That's Me
Speaker 2: and our logo and merch and all of our artwork
Speaker 2: in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 3: Ever heard of her?
Speaker 2: God? And our theme song, by the Way, was composed
Speaker 2: by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski. Iconic and
Speaker 2: especial thanks to the one and only Aristotle Ascevedo.
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