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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an army of

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Speaker 1: normal folks. Let's continue with part three of our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Officer Tommy Norman. Right after these brief messages from

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Speaker 1: our general sponsors, we now talk about the crosses Tommy

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Speaker 1: has spared. Tommy, you had a couple of pieces of

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Speaker 1: tragedy in your life that I think is important for

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Speaker 1: our listeners to know about, because it hadn't been all

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Speaker 1: peaches and cream for you. Tell me about your daughter, Tommy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my Daughterlyssa Norman passed away November seventeenth of last year,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, twenties.

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Speaker 1: That's not long ago.

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Speaker 2: No, a year ago, a year ago, and I'm still struggling,

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Speaker 2: still grieving. Alyssa Norman born July twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 2: And it was a daddy's girl her entire life. I mean,

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Speaker 2: when you talk about a daddy's girl, she wanted to

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Speaker 2: be with her dad, She wanted her dad to comb

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Speaker 2: her hair, she wanted to go places with her dad.

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Speaker 2: And she played volleyball, she played basketball, she played softball.

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Speaker 2: She made friends easily, yes, and so she knew her

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Speaker 2: dad's heart. She would always go to events with me,

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Speaker 2: block parties.

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Speaker 1: Would she go with you, take her with you? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And her brother Mitchell, Yes, they would come. They would

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Speaker 2: come with me. Sometimes they'd be underneath tables, you know,

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Speaker 2: just playing around.

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Speaker 1: And so they your kids were engaged in the stuff

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: They knew, they knew what her dad loved. And I'm thinking, gosh,

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Speaker 2: if they're watching what I'm doing as a police officer

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Speaker 2: and as a humanity arrian, this can't be a bad thing,

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Speaker 2: you know. I mean, they're learning what it's like to

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Speaker 2: be friends with other people.

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Speaker 1: You're teaching them by example. Right, It's beautiful. And so.

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Speaker 2: We As Alyssa got older her late teens and in

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Speaker 2: her early twenties, there were times Bill that I didn't

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Speaker 2: speak to her. There are times that our relationship were

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Speaker 2: a little bit was a little bit rocky. Whether that

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Speaker 2: be me being prideful and spending too much time in

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Speaker 2: the community and not choosing to stay at home. One

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Speaker 2: of the things I've always been good at is connecting

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Speaker 2: with people in the community. One of the things I've

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Speaker 2: always been good at is public service. So I'm thinking,

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Speaker 2: go out and do something you're good at. It comes

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Speaker 2: easy to me. And there were times when I should

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Speaker 2: have stayed home with the listener. There are times I

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Speaker 2: should have stayed home with my son, Mitchell, but I

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Speaker 2: chose to go out in the community because the community

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Speaker 2: needed me more. At least I felt the community needed

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Speaker 2: me more. So Alissa. At times in her early adulthood,

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Speaker 2: she would get in trouble was she was experimenting with drugs.

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Speaker 2: You're a cop, Exactly did you know this was going on?

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Speaker 2: I did, eventually. I did, eventually when other people would

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Speaker 2: tell me.

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Speaker 1: It's weird, even when your cop. Parents are the last

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Speaker 1: to know, exactly, the last to know, even for a cop.

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Speaker 2: And I remember one time, you know, Alyssa had snuck

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Speaker 2: out and she went to another city, your coworker, Sherwood, Arkansas,

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Speaker 2: and the Sherwood police had called me and said, this

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Speaker 2: is what teenagers do. We got your daughter here at

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Speaker 2: the park. She's here. I passed curfew, come pick her up.

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Speaker 2: You know, I did the same thing. And so last

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Speaker 2: year in June, she wrote me a letter and she

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Speaker 2: had it mailed to my house, and a beautiful letter,

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Speaker 2: a beautiful letter. She was twenty five. This was June.

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Speaker 2: She was getting ready to turn twenty six, and at

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Speaker 2: the time she wrote me the letter, we hadn't talked

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Speaker 2: for a few months. In the letter, it's his dad.

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Speaker 2: I'm at the Harbor Home in Conway, Arkansas. It's a

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Speaker 2: home for women only that are coming out of addiction.

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Speaker 2: We have church every Sunday at four o'clock. I would

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Speaker 2: love if you would come to church and see me

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Speaker 2: at the Harbor Home. In that letter, it says, I

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Speaker 2: miss you. I never thought that relationships between dads and

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Speaker 2: their little girls should ever be broken. I miss cuddling

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Speaker 2: with you and miss crawling in bed with you. I

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Speaker 2: want to see you. So the next God, you must

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Speaker 2: have melted and I don't. I don't even bring the

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Speaker 2: letter with me now to read it because it's I

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Speaker 2: couldn't even.

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Speaker 1: Get through it. I can only imagine this is my

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Speaker 1: baby girls. That are my baby girls. And if I

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Speaker 1: got that letter, I'm at the letter alone, would oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, it about my own reaction to that.

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Speaker 2: And it's it's it's it's cute, it's handwritten, I want

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Speaker 2: to say. It was even in pencil, which just made

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Speaker 2: it even more special. So the next Sunday I show

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Speaker 2: up and I surprised her, and uh, I was I

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Speaker 2: was trying to make it to why when I came

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Speaker 2: in the back door of the church, she wouldn't see me,

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Speaker 2: and I'm tippy toeing and other people are seeing me

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Speaker 2: walk in there, not letting her know. When she turns

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Speaker 2: around and she catches me and she runs to me,

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Speaker 2: and I remember I got on a white button down

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Speaker 2: shirt and she buries her head and she's like that,

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Speaker 2: I love you and I missed you. And I said

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Speaker 2: I love you and I miss you too, Alyssa, and

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Speaker 2: said I'm sorry I haven't been here. And when she

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Speaker 2: moves her head back from my shirt, the shirt over

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Speaker 2: my heart is soaking wet with her tears. And you

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Speaker 2: may say, well, why have it, why weren't you there?

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Speaker 2: I just didn't really know how to be a parent

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Speaker 2: to my daughter who had been in trouble.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be there. But then she's older, so

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Speaker 2: we don't talk as much. So every Sunday after that,

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Speaker 2: I would come to the Harbor Home and after church,

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Speaker 2: the house leader would let me take Alyssa out to

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Speaker 2: eat dinner. So for all the time we missed from

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Speaker 2: what was her aduction timing fentanyl and heroin? Oh God,

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Speaker 2: so heroin, Yes, what's fentanyl is even more powerful than heroin.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, I know, it's just we're not talking about

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Speaker 1: cocaine and weed right about injecting some heavy stuff into her.

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Speaker 1: I mean she was, but that was grip. But that

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Speaker 1: wasn't Alyssa. That was not Alyssa.

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Speaker 2: So we had so much fun from I got the

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Speaker 2: letter in June, I went to there, and then her

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Speaker 2: birthdays in July and then we have all this fun.

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Speaker 2: We usually spend about three or four hours together on

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Speaker 2: a Sunday afternoon. And every time that we would finish

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Speaker 2: dinner and I would drive her back to the Harbor Home,

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Speaker 2: we would sit outside on a bench in front of

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Speaker 2: the Harbor Home in this kind of tux in my

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Speaker 2: heart because Alissa didn't want me to leave. And I

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Speaker 2: knew why she did not want me to leave, because

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Speaker 2: she would keep it, coming up with different stories to

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Speaker 2: talk about and subjects and different topics. And I remember

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Speaker 2: one time it was dark and and the house mom

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Speaker 2: comes out and she kind of picks her head out

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Speaker 2: the door. I think, Alissa, I think that that's a

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Speaker 2: hint that you need to get time for you to

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Speaker 2: go inside, you know you because that they pray before

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Speaker 2: they went to bed. But then she she was in

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Speaker 2: phase one of the Harbor Home. So phase one you're

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Speaker 2: in this church that they transformed into a home. Then

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Speaker 2: phase two is a big trailer that's on the same property.

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Speaker 2: If you get to phase two, you get your phone back,

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Speaker 2: you get a job. I got to see her on

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Speaker 2: more than Sunday.

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Speaker 1: You get a little bit of freedom bound, yes exactly.

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Speaker 1: But you're still living on You're.

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Speaker 2: Still living on the property. Yes, on campus.

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Speaker 1: Correct.

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Speaker 2: So we got her van running. She got a job

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Speaker 2: at a restaurant in Conway, Arkansas, got her gym membership

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Speaker 2: to Planet Fitness. When it got her get I mean

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Speaker 2: she's working. We got her these no slip shoes. She

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Speaker 2: worked in the kitchen and well actually she was a

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Speaker 2: waiter waitress. But and then November sixteenth, I talked to

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Speaker 2: her that night. And that was on a Tuesday, so

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Speaker 2: once again more privileges. That next day is and Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: I said, Alissa, text me or call me when you

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Speaker 2: get off work. I want to come see you tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: I want to hang out with you. So she calls

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Speaker 2: me when she got off and she text me, she said, down,

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Speaker 2: I'm off work.

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Speaker 1: I love you.

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Speaker 2: I said, I love you too, And then she called me.

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Speaker 2: Her voice sounded different. She did not sound like Alyssa.

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Speaker 1: Did you suspect then she'd gotten back into something.

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Speaker 2: I felt like she had taken something, said Alissa. I

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Speaker 2: didn't mention it to her, but Bill, it bothered me

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Speaker 2: all night. It bothered me all night. And when I

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Speaker 2: hung up from her, I'm thinking, it's just I wish

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Speaker 2: I could be a cop.

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Speaker 1: And you've been doing it for twenty something years. Right,

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Speaker 1: you have a sense of when things are right and

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Speaker 1: aren't wrong that people that aren't cops maybe don't have.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the cop in you probably tickled you a little.

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Speaker 2: And how many times have I talked to my daughter

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Speaker 2: and I know how she sounds on a normal day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the next morning, get up, go to work. It's

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Speaker 2: around seven fifteen, seven thirty meter and two other officers

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Speaker 2: are sitting at a local park, chit chatting, and my

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Speaker 2: phone rings and it says the Harbor Home. Well, I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking as I decide to do I want to answer

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Speaker 2: or not. Alyssa has her cell phone back. Why would

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Speaker 2: she be calling me number one this early? The number two?

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Speaker 2: It's an odd time, right, Why doesn't she call me

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Speaker 2: from her cell phone, and I'm thinking, before I finally

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Speaker 2: swipe to answer, I'm thinking, she probably got in trouble

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Speaker 2: the night before. I'm probably going to get a call

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Speaker 2: that she got into some trouble, pulled over, something like that.

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Speaker 1: So you're answering this phone call with a sense of

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Speaker 1: dread that at this point it's got to be one

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Speaker 1: of these crap here we go again. We're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to start back over again. That's the dread you're thinking.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things I thought about, maybe even a.

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Speaker 1: Little pissed off and frustrated at her for doing it exactly.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking, Okay, she's gonna have to go back to

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Speaker 2: phase one and start this all over again. And sometimes

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Speaker 2: that's had to happen there at the harbor.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, all that calculus going on, your mad,

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Speaker 1: You're kind of mad, you're kind of frustrated. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm listening to you. I don't want to put words,

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Speaker 1: but if it was me, i'd be sad, mad, pissed off,

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Speaker 1: frustrated and.

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Speaker 2: Like but all of those. But I was scared to

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Speaker 2: answer that phone. I swiped it and it's the house mom.

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Speaker 2: What news was I about to receive. So, hello, Officer Norman.

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Speaker 2: This is Laura from a Harbor home and Alyssa overdose

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Speaker 2: last night. So I'm in my uniform, IM in my

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Speaker 2: police car. You know, I'm just police officer. Okay, where

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Speaker 2: is she at? What hospital?

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Speaker 1: Is shit?

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Speaker 2: I'll leave work right now and I'll go see her.

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Speaker 2: Because overdose doesn't always mean that you're dead. Sometimes overdose

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Speaker 2: you go to the hospital and you've been in our

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Speaker 2: hand and your life has been saved. And not Alyssa.

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Speaker 2: We things have been going great. Our relationship, we're reconnecting.

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Speaker 2: She's doing right with her She's doing right, She's in

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Speaker 2: phase two. She's got a gym membership, she's.

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Speaker 1: Happy, got a job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a vehicle, cell phone, she's made great

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Speaker 2: friends out there.

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Speaker 1: Where is she?

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Speaker 2: I will leave right now and.

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Speaker 1: Go see her. And I'm shaken.

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Speaker 2: I'm nervous once again in that uniform. So you got

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Speaker 2: this image. You know, you're not supposed to break in

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Speaker 2: a uniform. Alissa is not in the hospital. Alissa died.

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Speaker 2: We found her dead in the bathroom. So I said, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm on my way. So I didn't cry, and I'll

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Speaker 2: get more of that in a minute. So I dropped

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Speaker 2: my phone and my head hit the steering wheel. But

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Speaker 2: I'll start screaming, and I said, oh my god, oh

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Speaker 2: my god. So Officer humphreys House, Yes, thankfully, you're exactly right,

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Speaker 2: because if I do we were by myself, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what would have happened. But we're a close knit

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Speaker 2: family and at least the guys that I work with.

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Speaker 2: And so Officer Humphreyes gets out, he pulls me out.

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Speaker 1: Of the car.

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Speaker 2: What's going on?

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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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Speaker 2: I said, Lissa, they just found a lista dead. What

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Speaker 2: happened was Bill is that she was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: at prayer that morning. She didn't show up at prayer.

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Speaker 2: She's not in her room, the bathroom doors closed. They

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Speaker 2: had to force the bathroom door open, and she's laying

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Speaker 2: face down on the bathroom floor. She'd been deceased for

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Speaker 2: a few hours. So whether heroin or yes, it was

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Speaker 2: it was fentanyl. It was fentanyl. She was face down

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Speaker 2: and even had a bruise on her face from hitting

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Speaker 2: the floor.

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Speaker 1: So what when she'd been out working and stuff and

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Speaker 1: got a little bit of money, the grip still had

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Speaker 1: her and she just.

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Speaker 2: She gave She had a weak moment, and we all

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Speaker 2: have weak moments, but that weak moment took my daughter's.

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Speaker 1: The problem is a weak moment for me is when

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Speaker 1: I lose my tip with my kids or my wife.

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Speaker 1: A weak moment for an addict can kill them.

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Speaker 2: And you want to know something, Alyssa wasn't planning on

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Speaker 2: dying that night. She was planning on going back and

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Speaker 2: getting in bed and waking up the next morning for prayer.

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Speaker 2: Some solace that I've found in this is that she

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Speaker 2: just stopped breathing. Fintanah, you're just gonna stop. Your heart's

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Speaker 2: going to stop eating. So it was a peaceful debt.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back. Do you think she knew she

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Speaker 2: was buying fentanyl? Oh yes, I believe so, But.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows such stuff's killing folks.

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Speaker 2: Now, I think she was just gonna try some. She

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Speaker 2: just gave in. I will back up and say that

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons that this came about is she

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Speaker 2: met a young lady at her job that was an addict. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they became friends. They had this conversation.

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Speaker 1: It's a problem. That was a problem.

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Speaker 2: So my coworkers put me in their police car, they

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Speaker 2: drive me home. I called Roslyn I called my mom. Actually,

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Speaker 2: now I called my sister, Michelle said, Michelle, Lissa's dad,

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Speaker 2: call the family. Roslyn comes home. She drives me to Conway.

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Speaker 2: Roslyn my wife, your wife. Yes, she's a school teacher.

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Speaker 2: She came home and she's been such a God's send

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Speaker 2: throughout all of this. But so Conway thirty minutes, twenty

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Speaker 2: five minutes from North ol Rock. It's a college town.

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Speaker 2: So we pull into the Harbor Home. I see the

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Speaker 2: corners van, I see police cars. I see Alissa's mom

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Speaker 2: and stepdad. And we pull in and everything went into

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Speaker 2: slow motion. The rocks of the hit, you know, the

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Speaker 2: tires of the vehicle I'm in, and everything's in slow motion.

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Speaker 1: So you're hearing it, you're feeling it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, this is a movie scene. This is not.

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Speaker 2: I'm not getting ready to pull up and see my

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Speaker 2: daughter being taken out in a body bag. So, as

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Speaker 2: a police officer twenty five years, you've seen that, you've had,

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Speaker 2: you don't cry. So I had this luxury, so to speak,

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Speaker 2: to flip it on. So I flipped it on police mode.

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Speaker 2: And so I pull up and get out, and everybody

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Speaker 2: standing on the parking lot from the Harbor Home their

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Speaker 2: mouths over their their faith, their their hands over their

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Speaker 2: mouth like that. Right, people are crying. You could hear

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Speaker 2: a pin drop. People are in shock.

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Speaker 1: They love to lissen.

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Speaker 2: So I get out and after about ten minutes, I

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Speaker 2: hear feet shuffling and they're opening up the door to

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Speaker 2: the Phase two trailer and there came my daughter in

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Speaker 2: a white body bag. I'm going in police mode right

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Speaker 2: like I need to get information. I need to get

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Speaker 2: this person's day to birth. That's the only way i

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Speaker 2: can protect my emotions because I'm not believing that this

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Speaker 2: is my daughter, my baby girl is being carried out

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Speaker 2: in a white body bag. I asked a corner and

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Speaker 2: I knew they answer to this question, but I asked him, anyway,

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Speaker 2: can you go back inside with my daughter? I want

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Speaker 2: to see it one more time? He said, no, mister Norman,

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Speaker 2: I can they put her in the back of the

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Speaker 2: Corners van. And as far as that van traveled away

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Speaker 2: from the Harbor Home until I could see it no more.

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Speaker 2: I stared at that van because that's my daughter in

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Speaker 2: the back of that vand once again, I'm still in

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Speaker 2: the shock and I'm not crying. Ninety nine percent of

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Speaker 2: people out there listening to this. If you see your

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Speaker 2: baby girl, your baby boy, or your husband or your

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Speaker 2: wife carried out in the body bag, you're gonna lose it.

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Speaker 2: Thirteen months later, I still haven't had the cry that

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Speaker 2: I want to have. I don't know why I want

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Speaker 2: to have that cry. Will say Officer Norman, just cry.

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Speaker 2: You can't just cry. And I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: I'm still protecting my brain. I feel like with with

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Speaker 2: one good cry, the cries that you, tears are just flowing,

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Speaker 2: and after that you take a good nap. Those cries.

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Speaker 2: I can't. I can't have it, and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be strong. I want I think it's because I'm

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Speaker 2: a cop, because I've always been in control. I've been

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Speaker 2: in control of people's lives for twenty five years. As

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Speaker 2: a police officer. You pretty much call the shots if you.

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Speaker 1: Get caught to it be a personal burden to carry

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Speaker 1: it is. And do you feel like you haven't given

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Speaker 1: your daughter or just do because you haven't. That's crossed.

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Speaker 2: That's crossed my mind.

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Speaker 1: Bill.

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Speaker 2: I prayed to God, give me. I want to be

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Speaker 2: weak for twenty minutes. Let me be weak, let me cry.

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Speaker 2: And there's been times that it's almost came out. But

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Speaker 2: I feel like I owe Alissa tears now. I'm know

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Speaker 2: that she's watching this and she wants her dad to

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Speaker 2: be strong.

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Speaker 1: Sheelsea knows what's in your heart.

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Speaker 2: She does, and I feel like it's why my daughter

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Speaker 2: died at twenty six years old of a devil of

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Speaker 2: a drug. And I can't cry, and I just you know,

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Speaker 2: it's I mean, you see things in life as a

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Speaker 2: police officer that I wouldn't want my mom to see.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want you to see. Would I've seen some

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Speaker 2: bad things that have made me.

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Speaker 1: You think it's to sicitize you to death.

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Speaker 2: It has because guess how many times I've responded to

348
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Speaker 2: overdoses in twenty five years A lot. Guess so many

349
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Speaker 2: times I've cried zero zero You walk out with a pen,

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Speaker 2: But it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's obviously not that you don't care and love and

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Speaker 1: have concern, because you do. That's been your entire career.

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Speaker 1: But somehow you've become desensitized to the finality of death.

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Speaker 2: That's but it pisses me off Bill that I can't cry.

355
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Speaker 2: It makes me angry.

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Speaker 1: Could you cry before you were a cop? Oh?

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Speaker 2: I'm a cry, cry baby, don't take me to don't

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Speaker 2: take me. Don't don't take me to a movie. Don't

359
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Speaker 2: take me to a movie that's gonna make me cry.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I remember one time and I'm I'm a I don't know,

362
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Speaker 2: I was before I became an officer, but I was

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Speaker 2: on a date and I started. She's like, are you crying?

364
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,959
Speaker 2: I was like, yes, I'm crying. But but I'm telling you.

365
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Speaker 2: You see people on the interstate and horrific accidents, decapitated,

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Speaker 2: and you know, people are driving by like, oh my gosh,

367
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 2: me once again, pen notepad, getting information, getting information. It's just,

368
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 2: you know, it's just routine as being a police officer.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you've processed your daughter in a personal way.

370
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Speaker 2: I don't think I have. It's only been a year, right,

371
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Speaker 2: and so.

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Speaker 1: It's still I think you're still a cop there. And

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Speaker 1: let me ask you this have well, hell, I'm just

374
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,680
Speaker 1: gonna ask it. Have you felt sorry for yourself yet?

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Speaker 1: And what I I mean by that is this, here's

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Speaker 1: the great Tommy Norman who has changed lives in North

377
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Speaker 1: Little Rock, Arkansas, and it's given so much of his

378
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Speaker 1: time and his effort and his love to people who

379
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 1: desperately need it, and you did it out of the

380
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 1: goodness of your own heart. Why your daughter, I feel

381
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 1: like that, Why not someone else? Why does that guy's

382
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,479
Speaker 1: darter get taken from him? Why not some assholes darters

383
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 1: get taken from him? I mean, if you had that,

384
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Speaker 1: I've had that thought.

385
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 2: Because Alyssa was, she was breaking out of addiction, she

386
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 2: was doing so well.

387
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Speaker 1: Why build you up with all that anticipation and hope

388
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Speaker 1: and then just rip your guts out when all you've

389
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: done for twenty five years is help people. Have you

390
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: allowed yourself to feel sorry for yourself in that regard,

391
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Speaker 1: because as you and I both know, we all deal

392
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Speaker 1: with all kinds of heartache and even on our lives,

393
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's it's nothing personal against you, obviously,

394
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: but I just wonder if you'd allowed yourself to fall

395
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Speaker 1: into that rabbit hole.

396
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 2: Well, to me, I feel like it would be a

397
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 2: little unfair if I feel sorry for myself when Alyssa

398
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: is the one that struggled with addiction and there were

399
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: times that I should have been there for a Listen,

400
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Speaker 2: I'm not going to make any bones about it. I

401
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 2: should have been there more. Now, God is an amazing man,

402
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 2: because guess what God did. God brought a listen to

403
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 2: her dad back together before she passed away. Imagine if

404
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: I got a call at work and listen, I hadn't

405
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Speaker 2: talked for months.

406
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: The guilt, oh off, Sir Norman, the guilt you would

407
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: have had.

408
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 2: But I just talked to her the night before. And

409
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 2: guess what our last text messages were, Bill, I love

410
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Speaker 2: you and I love you too.

411
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: She probably spoke to and interacted with you. You were

412
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Speaker 1: probably the last person.

413
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I was one of the last people, if

414
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: not the last. But God, I mean, it's just the

415
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 2: fact that she wrote me that letter, and she thought

416
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 2: twice about sending that letter. She asked the head of

417
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 2: the harbor home she read it. The lady says, yes,

418
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: send that to your dad right now. So we had

419
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 2: all this time together, and God knew that Elsa neated

420
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: her daddy and I needed a listen.

421
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: Now.

422
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're going to talk about my

423
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: healthcare that happened four months after. Yeah, it's coming, okay,

424
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: all right, So I want to That's that's a pretty

425
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 2: crazy story.

426
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: But it's just it's just again, your story has so

427
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: many different levels, and the things you've done are so inspiring,

428
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: but it's just life sucks. Life is harf and and

429
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to sensatialize your daughter's death.

430
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to do that. I'm just trying to

431
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: emphasize that, you know, we continue to do the things

432
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: we do in spite of terrible circumstances, not because all

433
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: our circumstances are perfect. And I think you dealing with

434
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: the death of your daughter is a perfect example of

435
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: dealing with struggles.

436
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: And I want to say this that if any person

437
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: listening to this can can learn something from Melissa's death

438
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: is if you have a daughter or a son, or

439
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: a friend or a mom or a dad that you're

440
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: not talking to, swallow your pride, text them, call them

441
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 2: and have a conversation.

442
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 1: Because you never know. You never literally. Maybe that's cliche

443
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: as crip that it may be the last day, but

444
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: it you're living proof that it could be.

445
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 2: And I don't know that I could be here with

446
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: you right now sharing my story. If Alissa passed and

447
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: we hadn't reconnected, Dad would have ate me away.

448
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: The guilt would have ketch it.

449
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: But God knew what he was doing. And that's beautiful.

450
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: There's some silver linings throughout Alissa's death. I've used her

451
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: story to save other addicts lives. I've had addicts reach

452
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: out to me because of Alyssa Norman's death. They want

453
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: to get help. And people all across the world now

454
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: know about Alyssa for the reasons I want them to

455
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: know about her. But she was this vibrant, beautiful young lady.

456
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,719
Speaker 2: She just passed her real estate exam so and she's

457
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 2: closer to graduating from the Harbor Home and starting her

458
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 2: life over again. She was a mom and she Alisa

459
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: was amazing, And you know, it's not going to question God,

460
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: although I did, but I miss her. It's tough. The holidays.

461
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: You know, we're just finishing up with the holidays. It

462
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: was the holidays were tough. I think last year I

463
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: was in shock. So she passed away a week before Thanksgiving.

464
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 2: This year felt like maybe the first year's or the

465
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 2: first year of holidays, because the numbness is starting to

466
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: wear off, and this shield over my heart that has

467
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: come somewhat from being a police officer starting to kind

468
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: of chip away, and maybe that cry is coming.

469
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. But as you deal with that grief,

470
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: even though you haven't been able to cry. As you said,

471
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: it took a pretty big toll on you physically. You

472
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: hadn't even after that, you had even another challenge, you

473
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: had a heart attack. I did.

474
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 2: March nineteenth was on a Saturday.

475
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: Night, which is we're talking four or five months.

476
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: Almost four months of the day, almost four months of

477
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: the day. So still in shock, heartbroken, grieving, depressed, anxiety,

478
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: all the things that were never in my vocabulary.

479
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: Are you still on your beat?

480
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 2: Oh?

481
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: Yes, still on your beat, still putting a brave smile on,

482
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: talking to kids, talking to families, posting pictures of kids.

483
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: You're still going through your life. Yeah. But guess what,

484
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: But underneath all of it, you're miserable.

485
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm still I still suffer from depression. And I

486
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: think that someone that has a platform that I've been

487
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: blessed with, it's important to share that I am depressed.

488
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: I miss my daughter. I never want to see her again,

489
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: at least I'm not on this earth. And so March nineteenth,

490
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 2: go to bed on a Saturday night. March Madness, Right,

491
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: I'm watching March Madness. Yeah, basketball, fact, you gotta be Yeah,

492
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: I just love it so pain in my chest.

493
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: Tell my wife, are you sure you're painting your chest?

494
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: Because Arkansas is not in it?

495
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 2: Oh? No, I think they were in it. They went

496
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: to the Elite eight again, so at that time they

497
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 2: were still there, all right, And then so go to

498
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: sleep and wake up the next morning. I'm in briefing

499
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: and I feel the pain in my chest again. It's

500
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: starting to kind of go down my left arm, but

501
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: it would stop like right below my shoulder.

502
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: That's scary.

503
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: I mince it to my sergeant and then come.

504
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: On, dude, you're a cop. You've been around this twenty

505
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: five years. You knew exactly what it was.

506
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: So, oh, it gets better. So I go eat lunch

507
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: with two of my coworkers.

508
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: You still hadn't done anything. No, it is, the pain

509
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: still there.

510
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 2: So when I left lunch, I had to pull over

511
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 2: on the side of my patrol area. I'm having shortness

512
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 2: of breath and the pain was getting worse. What do

513
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: I do? I go get a sprite? Really, because if

514
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: you I thought coke zebra was well, but if you

515
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: want to burp drink a sprite, I'm thinking it's indigestion.

516
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?

517
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: I was having a massive heart attack.

518
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: But hold on.

519
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 2: So I finished my shift. And then later on that

520
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: evening March madness is getting even juicier.

521
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: Come out. You still hadn't paid attention to.

522
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: It, okay, because this is when I finally paid attention.

523
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: I'm putting on my night clothes. Rosin's there. We're gonna

524
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: watch basket ball.

525
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: Pain.

526
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: Who's my wife, Roslyn?

527
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? Got it?

528
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: The pain. This is when she took me to the er.

529
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: The pain was on the left side of my face,

530
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: traveled down my left arm and to my left fingertips.

531
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 2: She took me to the er. And when I got

532
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: in the truck, because once again, I've been in control

533
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: of my life almost the entire time, but I feel

534
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: like something serious is happening, I hit the side of

535
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: the truck and I say a curse word because I'm scared.

536
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: The previous time I was this scared was when I

537
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: had to answer the phone about the Lissa's death. I'm scared.

538
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 2: I get to the er.

539
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: The r is packed.

540
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: They do it ekg my blood pressure. I tell them

541
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: my symptoms. They bypassed everybody. I'm walking straight in, put

542
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: a gown on me, drew my blood. Blood comes back.

543
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: My traponing levels. Trapponing levels are elevated, that's a sign

544
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 2: of a heart attack. They admit me to c CEEU,

545
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: and the doctor comes in and does a caf He

546
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: puts two stints in my heart and and I finally

547
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: wake up. These are some of the scariest words Bill

548
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: I've ever heard in my life. Is his name's doctor

549
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: Yadav Love the guy, mister Norman, you suffered a massive

550
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: heart attack.

551
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: If I would have waited much longer, I wouldn't be here.

552
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: All right, let me ask you something I don't know

553
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: much about heart attacks. I probably should be in fat

554
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: and redheaded, in a high stressed position in my life

555
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: and everything else. So my understanding is diet weight. But

556
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: extra pressures such as stress and heartache and depression can

557
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: also have a significant effect on your body. In fact,

558
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: there's a book called The Body Keeps the Score that's

559
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: written by a psychologist who has done an enormous amount

560
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: of work connecting trauma to body elements and how trauma

561
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: and unresolved especially literally makes people physically. To what extent

562
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: do you think the death of your daughter contributed five

563
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: months later, and your depression and your sadness and your

564
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: inability to properly mourn contributed to your heart actually giving

565
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: out on you.

566
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: Other than genetics, on my dad's side of the family,

567
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: there was a history of heart disease. But everything you

568
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: mentioned was like the icing on the cake. My heart

569
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: was under so much trauma from heartache, from the depression

570
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 2: and from the anxiety and me losing some hope in life.

571
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: Was never suicidal, but I was very, very depressed. So

572
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: I'm laying in the hospital bed Bill, and there's all

573
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: these machines, and I'm hooked up to these machines, and

574
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: I hear beeping, but I hear in my ear my daughter, Wilyssa,

575
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: and she says, Dad, not today, meaning not today, You're

576
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: not going to die today. Medical personnel saved my life,

577
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: and God saved my life, but Alyssa Norman is the

578
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: one that really saved my life. She knew that it

579
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: wasn't time for her dad to reunite with her. I've

580
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: got more work to do on this earth. And Alyssa

581
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: knew that. Alyssa saved my life.

582
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: And so you rehabilitate, when when do you When do

583
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: you get to go back to work?

584
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: So I was off ironically seven I guess is considered

585
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: a lucky number. I was off seventy seven days. So

586
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: I go back to work and this was amazing.

587
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: So this is Mark Chapel made June July.

588
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it was in the It was right around

589
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: my work anniversary, which is June fifteenth. And I go

590
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: back to work and the love I received from not

591
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: only my coworkers, but my communities which mean the most

592
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: of me, you know, welcome back officer to Norman and

593
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: honking and waving and hugging me. It's like I'm back

594
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: where I need to be. I'm back where Alissa Norman

595
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: wants me to be. I'm back with my my family.

596
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: I'm back in living rooms. I'm back on front porches,

597
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: I'm back on front lawnes. I'm back going to birthday parties. Now,

598
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: I will say, thirteen months later, I'm.

599
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: Still hurt.

600
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: Like I said those words, and taking medication for anxiety depression. No, no, no,

601
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: no no, but I do. Because you can be a

602
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: police officer and you can think you can save the world,

603
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: but God's going to sit you on your butt.

604
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: We'll see. That's kind of you know. Look, before we met,

605
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: I read a lot, looked at a bunch of articles.

606
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: You know, producers put together good information so that I

607
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: have a better idea of who I'm talking to, and

608
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, looked at your social media and everything else.

609
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: But this is what dawned on me in the and

610
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: the tapestry I'm trying to stitch together is is it

611
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago you went into a community that

612
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: was scared the death of cops, and that you've taught

613
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: us many cops were scared to death of the communities

614
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: than their beat and you simply got out of your

615
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: car and were kind, and you build a communal family

616
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: and a relationship between the police and the community. And

617
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: then after all that great work, you go through a

618
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: miserable year where you lose your daughter and you have

619
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: a heart attack and you damn near die. And then oddly,

620
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: the very community that you work to save is probably

621
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: the very thing that gives you hope, and that is

622
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: saving you. And that's kind of the payoff, because you

623
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: get so much more out of what you put into it,

624
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: and your story is just present proof of that very thing.

625
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing, man. I mean that the community

626
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: that you felt like you needed to be in early

627
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: in your life is the community that you know you

628
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: need to be in now, and they're as supportive of

629
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: you as you were of them. I mean, I don't

630
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: know what community police it's supposed to look like, but

631
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: that's beautiful.

632
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 2: Having a heart and just kind of being an advocate

633
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: for humanity is much bigger than community policing because in

634
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 2: three years, in about six months, I can technically retire,

635
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: but guess what, I'm not going to be done giving

636
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: That uniform will be hung up and you know, I'll

637
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: have this retirement ceremony and probably the next day, if

638
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 2: not that same day, I'm going to be right back

639
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 2: out there. Because once again, it's like with you coaching football.

640
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure you told them you know, it wasn't that

641
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: uniform or the name on the back, but it's more

642
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 2: about your heart and giving at fifteen years old. I'm

643
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: fifteen now, it's I've been given for thirty five years.

644
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 2: And whether it's a handshake, whether it's a hug, whether

645
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: it's telling someone I love you, that's giving.

646
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: Right.

647
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: Like I said, you don't have to be Bill Courtney

648
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: or Tommy Norman to give. So people out there listening,

649
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: go out and do something in your community. Hold the

650
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: door open for somebody. Somebody's at Walmart and they can't

651
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: reach that out of them. Off the top, chef, get

652
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 2: that autumn off the top. Shif that's going to make

653
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: you feel good?

654
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean, And what you might find out, as in

655
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: my case and yours, is that oddly life has a

656
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: way of reminding you that you get so much more

657
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: out of it than you put into it. Yeah, in

658
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: your case. In my case, I think that's completely evident

659
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: and true.

660
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 2: I just can't thank you enough for this opportunity just

661
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 2: from hearing your story. And I know you're a humble person,

662
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 2: but I will say this today, I've met a real

663
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: life hero. And come on, I know you don't like it.

664
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: I listened to your story, but man, just whenever Alex

665
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: walked me in and I.

666
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: Told Alex is her producer.

667
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Alex the producer. And I told Elizabeth and Kaya

668
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 2: is like, that's Bill talking, that's his voice. So I've

669
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: got a video of me me you that I'm going

670
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: to post. So so a million people are going to

671
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: see your red hair.

672
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: I love that. Now.

673
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 2: I got a question I know we got that. Is

674
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: that a University of Manassas Youth? No, it's not Okay,

675
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: I thought to say, you and.

676
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: My oldest daughter. You would normally see me in an

677
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: old misshat. Oh, graduate from a miss but my my

678
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: oldest daughter spent the last year doing canyoneering in Montana,

679
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: And when Lisa and I went to visitor, they have

680
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: the University of Montana there and this is the University

681
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: of Montana Grizzlies football. Okay, yeah, that's what it is.

682
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: And I wear it around here because nobody knows what

683
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: it is. So that's it. Okay. This is an army

684
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: of normal folks. And at the end of the day,

685
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you have two and a half

686
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: follow two and a half million followers or not. You're just

687
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: a normal dude, and we established that the way you

688
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: grew up. One of the things we're trying to do

689
00:36:54,719 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: is connect people. Any of the stories we tell, we've

690
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 1: always and up to me, we'll give out our personal

691
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: contact information because if anybody hears what we're talking about

692
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: and is incentive to do something in their communities, we

693
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: want to make sure that the guest on this show,

694
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: as well as me and anybody else, they can use

695
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: as a resource. So Tommy, would you mind sharing your

696
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: contact information? Maybe there's a police officer out there that

697
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: has heard this that wants to reach out. Maybe there's

698
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: a middle aged guy like you and me struggling with

699
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: a depression. Maybe there's a twenty five year old young

700
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: woman out there struggling with addiction. Maybe there's community leaders

701
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 1: out there that want to hear how Tommy Norman polices.

702
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: God only knows in your story. There's all kinds of

703
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: different ways that you can have a positive effect, and

704
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: we want people to be able to reach out to

705
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: you if they want to. Would you mind sharing your

706
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: contact information?

707
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

708
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: So.

709
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: My email address is oh if it's oh as an

710
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 2: ocean f as in Frank Thomas Norman at yahoo dot com.

711
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: Social media Facebook is Officer Tommy M. Norman. Instagram is

712
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 2: T Norman twenty three twenty three for who Bill Michael

713
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: Jordan Michael Jordan's brother, and then the last is Twitter.

714
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: Twitter is that Officer Norman. So follow me on any

715
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: one of those and I would love to hear from you.

716
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: You need to let the North Little Rock Police, you

717
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: need to talk them into letting twenty three.

718
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: That would be nice.

719
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: One Adam twelve Tommy Norman twenty three, twenty three that's it,

720
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: all right, buddy, Thanks for shaving that. And if anybody

721
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: wants to reach out to you, should they should they

722
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: be afraid to?

723
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 2: Or oh no, no, no no, I'll maybe talk your

724
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: ear off, but now please reach out.

725
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: Love it, Tommy. I want to tell you something. It

726
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: has been a distinct honor to spend time with you.

727
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: Your story is phenomenal. You know, I'm late to the game.

728
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: You got two and a half million followers, so there's

729
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: plenty of people that know all about your story. But

730
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: I hope more hear the story, and most importantly, I

731
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: hope more are in fired by what you do. And

732
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: I am absolutely of the belief that you know so

733
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: much of what ails us can be fixed by a

734
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: normal guy from North Little Rock who grew up with

735
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: eight siblings, who decided he wanted to be a policeman

736
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: not to write tickets and arrest people, but to actually

737
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: love people and meet them and actually protect and serve.

738
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: And you've changed lives, and your life has been changed,

739
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: and your story is just so damn inspiring, and it's

740
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: really been an honor to spend these last few hours.

741
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: With you, Tommy, coming from you to say that my

742
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 2: story is inspiring. It means a lot, and thank you

743
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: for all you do. Thank you for your hospitality and coach.

744
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: I mean, I love you.

745
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: Love you too, brother. You know I've met the guy

746
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: once and I honestly do Tommy Norman, it's a bona

747
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: fide bromance. We both think. All of you who made

748
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: it through all three parts, I hope you found it

749
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: as worthwhile as I did. I learned a ton. Thank

750
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: you to join an army in normal folks. Go to

751
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: normal folks dot us and sign up to become a

752
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: member of the movement. We would love to hear what

753
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: you do. And if there's stories you've heard that you

754
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 1: think I need to know, write me anytime at Bill

755
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: at normal folks dot us. As you've heard, everyone we're

756
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: featuring myself included, are sharing our direct contact information. We're

757
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: hoping to build a real community that's unlike anything America

758
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: has ever seen. If you enjoyed this episode, rate it,

759
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: review it, share it with friends that on social retweet

760
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: it or twitter it or Facebook it or whatever Alex

761
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: calls it. All the things that you can do will

762
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: help us grow an army of normal folks. Bill Cortning,

763
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week

764
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 2: M