Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, it's justin Richmond. Today on the show we
Speaker 1: have Grammy Award winning singer songwriter Lyle love It. Love
Speaker 1: It follows in the footsteps of Texas troubadours like Gary Clark,
Speaker 1: Walter Hyatt, and my personal favorite textan of all time,
Speaker 1: towns Van Zandt. In nineteen eighty six, he laid the
Speaker 1: foundation for alternative country in Americana movements with his debut
Speaker 1: self titled album. The album shot up to number fourteen
Speaker 1: on the Billboard Country Charts, and the rest, as they say,
Speaker 1: is history. Since that time, Love It has continued to
Speaker 1: light up country music with a rich blend of country,
Speaker 1: big band, blues, folk, and jazz. All of those sounds
Speaker 1: are on display in twelfth of June, his first new
Speaker 1: album in a decade. On today's episode, Lovett speaks to
Speaker 1: Bruce Headlam about his new album, a project rooted in
Speaker 1: home and family, which makes sense considering his role as
Speaker 1: a newly minted dad to twins at sixty four. Love
Speaker 1: It also shares stories of his early days playing gigs
Speaker 1: around Texas A and M University. This is broken record,
Speaker 1: Liner notes for the digital age. I'm just a mission.
Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Headlam with Lyle Love It. You have a
Speaker 1: new album. You're first in ten years. It would have
Speaker 1: been eight years had it not been for the pandemic,
Speaker 1: but that was the idea. We cut tracks in November
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen with the idea of finishing in March, maybe
Speaker 1: into April of twenty twenty. I did a tour from
Speaker 1: the end of January into the seventh of March. Seventh
Speaker 1: of March was the last live date I played on
Speaker 1: that tour. It was the last live date I played
Speaker 1: until after The Serious Isolation. You've always had a heavy
Speaker 1: tour schedule. I assume that means you like touring. What
Speaker 1: was it like to just be forced off the road.
Speaker 1: It was, you know, anxious, and it was fraught with
Speaker 1: worry and figuring things out constantly. But the flip side
Speaker 1: of that was being home. I hadn't been at home
Speaker 1: that much, you know, since since I started, and I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that, you know. I like getting to be
Speaker 1: in the room with smart and talented people, and I've
Speaker 1: been fortunate to be blessed in that way my whole
Speaker 1: life and my career. And I get to work with
Speaker 1: some of the best and most known musicians in the world,
Speaker 1: and that's uplifting and inspiring. I missed my association with
Speaker 1: my friends, but I love being home. Now. Are you
Speaker 1: the kind of writer who needs to write every day?
Speaker 1: I wish I were the kind of writer that needed
Speaker 1: to write every day, or that could write every day.
Speaker 1: I lack the skills to approach it as a craft.
Speaker 1: I think my songs come more from feelings than they
Speaker 1: do from thought, and so that's something I think about,
Speaker 1: that's something I work towards still. But writing for me
Speaker 1: is not a thought about kind of thing. It's more
Speaker 1: of an emotional reaction. So are you the kind that
Speaker 1: do you have a notebook with you all the time
Speaker 1: right now? No. When I was a boy, my parents
Speaker 1: both worked and I come home from school and have
Speaker 1: three or four hours by myself at home, and I
Speaker 1: would watch afternoon TV. And one of the shows that
Speaker 1: I would watch the afternoon was the old Mike Douglas Show.
Speaker 1: One time I saw Buck Owens on the Mike Douglas Show,
Speaker 1: and you know, years later I got to meet Buck.
Speaker 1: He was really sweet to me, really kind and funny,
Speaker 1: and reminded me of my uncle's. You know, I kind
Speaker 1: of get tease you and give you a hard time.
Speaker 1: Mike Douglas asked him that do you, well, how do
Speaker 1: you write songs? How do you And Buck said no,
Speaker 1: he said, I figure if it's good enough, I'll remember it.
Speaker 1: I just always thought of that, and so that's might
Speaker 1: see us anyway. I blame it on. But it surprises
Speaker 1: me when you say all your songs come out of feelings,
Speaker 1: because I think most people would think of you as
Speaker 1: a pretty cerebral song writer. There's a lot of wordplay,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of images. You know, if I had
Speaker 1: a boat, has that image of someone on a pony
Speaker 1: on a boat, which I think probably everybody who knows
Speaker 1: and loves that song keeps in their mind. It almost
Speaker 1: does a kind of Buster Keaton quality. I mean my
Speaker 1: songwriting process, yeah, it starts always with some sort of
Speaker 1: feeling and then thinking about how to express that and
Speaker 1: thinking about you know what am I trying to say here?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's always a puzzle and it's always a challenge.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how other writers approach writing any
Speaker 1: kind of writing, but I always feel as though I'm
Speaker 1: lost and just trying to find my way through the darkness.
Speaker 1: Having the complete idea is the hardest part, and then
Speaker 1: writing words to that idea is still hard for me,
Speaker 1: but it's easier once you have something to write too.
Speaker 1: And when you say right two, does that mean like
Speaker 1: an image or a turn of phrase, an image or
Speaker 1: just what you want the song to? Ultimately say? What
Speaker 1: am I trying to communicate? Music's impact on us as people,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, is an emotional impact. It makes you
Speaker 1: feel something. You can take in a work of music
Speaker 1: and not have to hit the pause button on your life.
Speaker 1: You know, to stand in front of a painting, you
Speaker 1: have to stand still and look at it. To go
Speaker 1: to a film, you sit in a dark theater and
Speaker 1: you watch a film. To read a book, you stay
Speaker 1: in one place and you read. You can fix supper,
Speaker 1: you can drive somewhere you know, you can carry on
Speaker 1: with your life and listen to music. And you can
Speaker 1: either listen to it intently as though it's a film,
Speaker 1: as though it's a play, as though it's a book,
Speaker 1: or you can have it be background music and it
Speaker 1: can still make you feel something. And the nicest compliment
Speaker 1: that I feel like I ever get paid it's when
Speaker 1: they say I remember exactly what I was doing the
Speaker 1: first time I heard that song for me. When my
Speaker 1: song reminds somebody of his own life, his or her
Speaker 1: own life, I feel like that's the most I can
Speaker 1: ask for. So, what were the feelings you're trying to
Speaker 1: capture going into this album? To answer your question the
Speaker 1: way you ask it would make it seem more deliberate
Speaker 1: than it is. I feel somehow compelled to write about
Speaker 1: my feelings just for myself, and I evaluate later if
Speaker 1: what I've made up could be a song in my
Speaker 1: show or a song I'm worth playing to somebody. And
Speaker 1: so in these last years, I mean, the thing that's
Speaker 1: been my life, the thing that's consumed my life gladly,
Speaker 1: has been wanting to have a family and then having
Speaker 1: a family. My original songs are about family, or are
Speaker 1: inspired by family and those kinds of close relationships that
Speaker 1: evolve over a person's life. These songs range from being
Speaker 1: in the moment, but also to looking back and talking
Speaker 1: about the shift in perspective, from being a eighteen year
Speaker 1: old kid trying to play a gig anywhere he could,
Speaker 1: to being a twenty eight year old recording act with
Speaker 1: his first album out, you know, to being sixty four
Speaker 1: years old and trying to be relevant in my own time,
Speaker 1: not trying to fit into what's going on currently, what's
Speaker 1: necessarily popular, but just trying to be accurate and trying
Speaker 1: to be where I am at this point in my life.
Speaker 1: You also look ahead in the song June the twelfth,
Speaker 1: which is your children's birthday. Is that right? It is? Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: looking ahead wondering how long you're going to be there.
Speaker 1: I never considered my age really or didn't think about
Speaker 1: it in the same way until they were born. I
Speaker 1: started doing the math. I thought, you know, gosh, I
Speaker 1: hope I can make it until they start school. I
Speaker 1: hope I make it until they graduate from eighth grade
Speaker 1: or high school. You know, if I can see him
Speaker 1: go to college, wouldn't that be wonderful? If I see
Speaker 1: I'm getting married, if I see them have children, wouldn't
Speaker 1: that would be miraculous? And so I started, you know,
Speaker 1: thinking in those terms. I don't know if the best
Speaker 1: description is there's songs about knowing you're out of love
Speaker 1: or just incompatibility or fate. You've got some beautiful songs
Speaker 1: in that vein on this album i'd like you to
Speaker 1: talk about. Which is the first is the mocking Ones?
Speaker 1: Thank you? Once again. It's a kind of an age
Speaker 1: perspective and that when you're younger, you imagine being close
Speaker 1: always to people you're close to, and it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: work out that way. I mean, you just don't stay
Speaker 1: close to everyone you'd like to stay close to you.
Speaker 1: So it's really a song about friendship, and it's a
Speaker 1: song about lives growing apart, and how you know when
Speaker 1: you might run into somebody that you knew from who
Speaker 1: was important to you from before, it affects you, that
Speaker 1: doesn't affect you. It's mixed, isn't it. In a way,
Speaker 1: it's a wonderful bringing of that time back immediately, and
Speaker 1: it also brings up a feeling of loss, and ultimately
Speaker 1: in that song resolves in hey, it's great to see you.
Speaker 1: Before we pause for a break, let's hear Lyle Lovett
Speaker 1: plays new song mocking Ones from the album twelfth of June.
Speaker 1: My old friend, you know you're good to see. How
Speaker 1: have missed the way you look at me? You bring
Speaker 1: a man of many memory of how things were and
Speaker 1: how they couldn't be because we never did see id
Speaker 1: eye STEI loved each other. God knows why. Now it's
Speaker 1: light aids in the western sky, all that chances esteem
Speaker 1: to pass us by. Nor I've always wished for you
Speaker 1: good luck. But as I rummaged to the rest and
Speaker 1: us to save myself, I said it and did us
Speaker 1: and thought of you and me no more. Oh we
Speaker 1: never did see add eye stew We love each other.
Speaker 1: God knows why. Naw, it's light's in the residence sky.
Speaker 1: Oh my chances steamed the beast less by, I said before,
Speaker 1: and now the long times come to wait, to get
Speaker 1: and still remember some the whole my heads above laughing
Speaker 1: ungs bawling from faces of the mocking ones. So, my
Speaker 1: old friend, you know you could disease. You bring a
Speaker 1: man such lovely memories. Oh, I missed the way you
Speaker 1: look at me. We're back with Bruce Hellam's conversation with
Speaker 1: Lyle love It. You mentioned growing up coming home, your
Speaker 1: parents both working. Was their music in your house? Growing up?
Speaker 1: My parents subscribe to the Old Columbia Record Club and
Speaker 1: they get a new album every month, and they were
Speaker 1: really nice about letting me play their records when they
Speaker 1: were away from home, and I was very particular about
Speaker 1: them anyway, So I listened to their records a lot,
Speaker 1: and there was quite a variety of artists that the
Speaker 1: record club would send them, and they would buy records too.
Speaker 1: Their record collection had country records. I remember a great
Speaker 1: sampler record with Carl Smith and Lefty Frizelle. You know,
Speaker 1: they had Ray Charles Records, they had Ray Price Records,
Speaker 1: they had Nat King Cole Records, Perry Como Records, had
Speaker 1: Glenn Miller Records. And growing up in a city like
Speaker 1: Houston that Cosmo falls in a place radio was well
Speaker 1: represented pop radio, country radio. I would go from channel
Speaker 1: the channel and listen to all kinds of music. I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about Nat King Cole because you
Speaker 1: cover two songs of his two songs he made famous
Speaker 1: on this album, and in fact, two songs he recorded
Speaker 1: in the same session. I think I didn't know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the same session he recorded Straighten Up and Fly Right,
Speaker 1: which he rode, and Gee Baby and I Good to You.
Speaker 1: I was just a boy when his television show was
Speaker 1: on the air, and I used to love watching him.
Speaker 1: He was such an elegant host and so gracious with
Speaker 1: his guests. Both of the songs I wouldn't have thought
Speaker 1: to approach, But in nineteen ninety three, Matt Rawlings, who
Speaker 1: has played piano and keyboards with me from the very beginning.
Speaker 1: Matt was doing a solo, his first solo record for
Speaker 1: the MCA Master Series, which was an instrumental label that
Speaker 1: MCA Nashville was doing, and Matt asked me if I
Speaker 1: would sing g Babiana Good to You with him, and
Speaker 1: it was more about the piano, and there were extended
Speaker 1: piano breaks, and it was his playing was brilliant as always,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a really fun session. David Hungate
Speaker 1: played guitar. A few years later, Gary Marshall asked me
Speaker 1: to record Straighten Up and Flywright for his film Dear God,
Speaker 1: and so I got the guys together when we recorded that.
Speaker 1: Getting a specific request from someone else always felt gave
Speaker 1: me permission to do a song that I would otherwise
Speaker 1: maybe have just learned and played the edge of my
Speaker 1: bed in my bedroom for the fun of it. Approaching
Speaker 1: a classic where there's absolutely no reason for my version
Speaker 1: of it to exist except that someone like Gary Marshall
Speaker 1: or like Matt Rawlings has asked me to do it.
Speaker 1: That's reason enough to say yes. And it's great fun
Speaker 1: to sing a great song, to sing a standard, sing
Speaker 1: a classic beautifully written song like that, it's like being
Speaker 1: in the greatest garage band in the world. So we
Speaker 1: recorded those songs then and would occasionally play them. They
Speaker 1: became part of the set list, and in the last
Speaker 1: few years, as a way to feature Francine Reid, who
Speaker 1: I've started with since nineteen eighty four, we made duets
Speaker 1: out of g Baby, Annaga, do You and Straighten Up
Speaker 1: and Fly Right, And so we've the last few tours
Speaker 1: we've done those live. Our versions of the songs developed
Speaker 1: into something that seemed unique to the large band after
Speaker 1: you know, an eight or ten year break. I wanted
Speaker 1: this album to in a way be an overview. I
Speaker 1: wanted it to represent the different styles that I've worked
Speaker 1: in over the years and kind of represent the spectrum
Speaker 1: of things that somebody might expect to hear if they
Speaker 1: come to see me live. I thought those arrangements would
Speaker 1: represent the large band. That's why I picked those to
Speaker 1: be on the record. If those songs hadn't become part
Speaker 1: of my work over the years, I probably wouldn't have
Speaker 1: just selected the mattathin air. We're talking about your large
Speaker 1: band songs, which is, you know, one of the buckets
Speaker 1: of the kind of wild love it repertoire. Do you
Speaker 1: put any of your own songs up with those songs
Speaker 1: like Straighten Up and fly Right and G Baby? In
Speaker 1: terms of arrangement, yes, you know. We arranged one of
Speaker 1: my songs, pants is Overrated with the horn section and
Speaker 1: the vocal group, So I think of that as a
Speaker 1: large band arrangement on this album. But I didn't have
Speaker 1: other songs that I felt would represent the band as
Speaker 1: well to record on this record. And because we'd been
Speaker 1: playing G Baby, Annaga do You and straight Up and
Speaker 1: Flywright live the last couple of tours, I wanted to
Speaker 1: be on the record so people who had heard them
Speaker 1: live would have recordings of them. I guess I'm looking
Speaker 1: back over your career. I'm thinking there are songs of
Speaker 1: yours She's an a Lady, That's right, that have kind
Speaker 1: of entered the consciousness that sort of American songbook River. Well,
Speaker 1: that's nice to say. The idea of the large band
Speaker 1: really came about because of one generous, supportive, consistently involved person,
Speaker 1: Billy Williams from Phoenix, Arizona. Billy was the music director
Speaker 1: for Javid Sloane and The Rogues. Jay David Sloane was
Speaker 1: the lead singer and as a wonderful man and a
Speaker 1: wonderful singer. He and Billy were about the same age.
Speaker 1: I met them in nineteen eighty three in Luxembourg my
Speaker 1: friend Claude Weber, who was a country music fan, and
Speaker 1: his stage name was Buffalo Wayne. He said he named
Speaker 1: himself after his two favorite American cowboy heroes, Buffalo Bill
Speaker 1: and John Wayne. My friend Claude he had something to
Speaker 1: do with the city fair in Luxembourg called the Schuber four,
Speaker 1: and he asked me if I wanted to play between
Speaker 1: sets of the two main bands that were playing this
Speaker 1: American music tent at the schuberfour. One band was a
Speaker 1: top forty cover band from Orlando that billed itself as
Speaker 1: a Las Vegas show band, and they were called Body
Speaker 1: and Soul. I still know some of those folks as well.
Speaker 1: And the other band was Jay David Sloan and the Rogues,
Speaker 1: who were the house band at the Just Most Happening
Speaker 1: Country music nightclub in Phoenix, a place called Mister Lucky's.
Speaker 1: For years and years they were a house band. Billy
Speaker 1: Williams was originally from Michigan and then ended up in Phoenix.
Speaker 1: But he would produce demos for Buddy Cannon started working
Speaker 1: with Jay David Sloan, who he knew already, and they
Speaker 1: would look for talented musicians in the area. And they
Speaker 1: were the swingingest jazzist country band that I'd ever heard.
Speaker 1: Matt Rawlings would play a solo in a country song
Speaker 1: and I think, my goodness, I've never heard anything like
Speaker 1: that before in my life. Meeting up with them at
Speaker 1: the schuberfour was serendipitous, to say the least. But what
Speaker 1: made it so important was that we were there together
Speaker 1: for a month, playing five nights a week. My first
Speaker 1: day there, first time I played, I could see that
Speaker 1: my performance was unnecessary and superfluous. I played the set
Speaker 1: change between the two bands, and I wasn't they'd even
Speaker 1: set me up on stage. I was on the little
Speaker 1: dance floor in front of the stage while they changed
Speaker 1: the stage. People that came to this event because of
Speaker 1: Jay David Sloan and the Rogues being an American country band,
Speaker 1: you know, would come in their best cowboy stuff or
Speaker 1: best fact similear cowboy Steff, kind of messed up hats
Speaker 1: and cowboy clothes and some wearing wooly shafts with saddle
Speaker 1: Oxfords instead of boots, that sort of thing. The event
Speaker 1: was sponsored by Cargo Airline, and my friend Claude designed
Speaker 1: a poster of a cowgirl with Cisco Kid kind of
Speaker 1: gun belts criss crossed across her bare breasts. Didn't go
Speaker 1: over great with Cargo Lucks. Claude was dismissed and as
Speaker 1: a result, I was also, you know, on the bubble.
Speaker 1: Claude spoke for me and they kept me on the gig.
Speaker 1: My pay at that point had been a one way
Speaker 1: ticket to Luxembourg. I went to Jay David Sloan and
Speaker 1: to Billy Williams and I said, yeah, I'm a little
Speaker 1: worried about this, you know, I really I'm playing this
Speaker 1: gig for airfare and I'm a little worried that i
Speaker 1: might not get my return ticket and that would be
Speaker 1: important to me. And they said, we'll learn some of
Speaker 1: your songs, and why don't you sit in with us
Speaker 1: during our sets every night, and you know that way
Speaker 1: you will have worked and they'll have to pay you.
Speaker 1: So that's what we did. Jay and Billy negotiated my
Speaker 1: ticket home and at the end of that month they said,
Speaker 1: if you ever want to do any recording, come out
Speaker 1: here to Phoenix and we'll give you the first day
Speaker 1: in the studio for free. And so in early June
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty four, I called Billy and I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: it's your offer still good? Can I come out? And
Speaker 1: he said, sure, coming out. He booked us time at
Speaker 1: a really nice little studio in Scott's Dalely, Arizona, in
Speaker 1: the backyard of Ed and Marie Ravenscroft. They called their
Speaker 1: place Chatan Recordings, and an engineer named Steve Moore recorded
Speaker 1: us to twenty four track analog two inch tape, and
Speaker 1: we recorded four songs that first day, complete with harmony
Speaker 1: vocals and Billy overdubbing solos with his guitars less Paul
Speaker 1: plugs straight into the board. And those four songs were
Speaker 1: the first four songs that I took with me on
Speaker 1: my first trip to Nashville. A couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: Well what are those songs? They were if I were
Speaker 1: the man you wanted, Cowboy Man, closing Time and give
Speaker 1: Back My Heart, Well, those are some pretty good songs. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. And recording with that band was
Speaker 1: just a revelation to me. I loved their playing, and
Speaker 1: I loved their take on well just their feel, and
Speaker 1: I was just grateful that they would let me play
Speaker 1: with him. We'll be right back with more from Bruce
Speaker 1: Headlam and Lou Love It after quick Break, but before
Speaker 1: we go enjoyed Love It's live performance of one of
Speaker 1: his greatest hits. If I had a boat, if I
Speaker 1: had able, I'd got out on the ocean, and if
Speaker 1: I had a bony, I'd ride him on my book,
Speaker 1: and we good all together and go out hut on
Speaker 1: the ocean, I said me, upon my bony on my book.
Speaker 1: If I will Roy Rogers, I shall enough this angle.
Speaker 1: I couldn't bring myself to marry in the old day.
Speaker 1: Let just be me intured. We go right and do
Speaker 1: them movies. Then we buy a boat and on to
Speaker 1: see leeds to see it. And if I had a boat,
Speaker 1: I go out on the ocean, and if I had
Speaker 1: a pony, I'd ride him on my boat, and we
Speaker 1: good all together, go out put on the ocean. I
Speaker 1: setting me up on my pony on my boot. But
Speaker 1: now the mysterymaged man was smart. He got himself Badanto.
Speaker 1: Cassanto did the dirty work for Breath. Badanto. He was smarted,
Speaker 1: and one had beamis ibby because my eyes. I bought
Speaker 1: a book. I'm pulling out to see. And if I
Speaker 1: had a book, I go out on the ocean. And
Speaker 1: if I had a pony, I'd rightly won my pool
Speaker 1: and we good all agether, go out hut on the ocean.
Speaker 1: I send me up on my pony on my book.
Speaker 1: And if I were like a lightning, I wouldn't need
Speaker 1: those stingers. Would I come in go whenever I would please?
Speaker 1: And I scare remand the shame dree and I'm scaring
Speaker 1: by the light boot. But when I scared my pony
Speaker 1: on my boot out on see. But if I had
Speaker 1: a book, I'd go out on the ocean. And if
Speaker 1: I had a pony, I ride on my boat and
Speaker 1: we good all the day, go out put on the ocean.
Speaker 1: I setting me up on my pony on my boat.
Speaker 1: I setting me upon my oy on my boot. We're
Speaker 1: back to the us of Bruce's conversation with Lyle love It,
Speaker 1: starting with how love It got his start in the
Speaker 1: music business. My dad's boss in nineteen eighty four was
Speaker 1: a man named mister Bress. Joe Bress and his son
Speaker 1: liked the idea of being in the music business. So
Speaker 1: he went to school at Middle Tennessee State University in Murphysboro,
Speaker 1: Tennessee to really get into the business. Dad knew that
Speaker 1: and talked to him, mister Bress, and we called his
Speaker 1: son Bow and both said, hey, I'll make some calls
Speaker 1: for you. He said, are you affiliated with you performing
Speaker 1: rights organizations? And I said, well, I've joined ASCAP six
Speaker 1: years ago or so when i started copywriting my songs.
Speaker 1: I joined as I'm a member of ASKAT. He said, well,
Speaker 1: he said, let me call ASCAP for you, set you
Speaker 1: up a meeting with a membership rep. And I said,
Speaker 1: do you think they do it? He said, well, that's
Speaker 1: what they do. It's their job to talk to their songwriters.
Speaker 1: That was my first meeting with a man named Merlin Littlefield.
Speaker 1: He was just enthusiasm, soonified and started making calls from
Speaker 1: me and set up meetings for me all over town
Speaker 1: that week. And Jim Rooney, if you know about Jim,
Speaker 1: is just an amazing, incredible human being on the planet.
Speaker 1: I think he's eighty two now lives up in Vermont,
Speaker 1: but he was part of the whole Cambridge folks scene
Speaker 1: and part of the new York folks scene in those days.
Speaker 1: Used to play music with Bill Keith. He's, you know,
Speaker 1: written books and I mean he's you know, deep and
Speaker 1: just you know, makes the world a better place. He
Speaker 1: would let me sleep on his couch when I'd come
Speaker 1: to Nashville, you know, in those days, I'd go to
Speaker 1: Nashville every four to five to six weeks and make
Speaker 1: the rounds again. He'd say, yeah, if you need a
Speaker 1: place to say, come over here, and so I took
Speaker 1: him up on that occasionally. He was emotionally supportive and
Speaker 1: saved me some money. Were you writing songs? Always try
Speaker 1: to be working on something. Was still playing the same
Speaker 1: eight places once every couple of months. That's sort of
Speaker 1: my usual rotation. Not making enough money to make a
Speaker 1: legitimate living as an adult, and so I was living
Speaker 1: back at home, you know, in my room with my parents' house.
Speaker 1: Jim Rooney helped me and ultimately took me over. He said,
Speaker 1: you know, he said, have you met any of the
Speaker 1: folks over at Criterion Music? I said, no, I haven't,
Speaker 1: and he took me to Criterion's Nashville office on seventeenth Avenue.
Speaker 1: That the guy that was running his name was Ted
Speaker 1: Criterion shared an office with Rodney Crow and Rosanne Cash,
Speaker 1: and I met Rodney and Rosanne at that same same meeting,
Speaker 1: and I was thrilled, you know, to meet them. Ted
Speaker 1: listened to my tape and he said, well, sent, He said,
Speaker 1: our headquarters out in Los Angeles. I'll send it out
Speaker 1: there to them. And I thanked him and that was
Speaker 1: it and didn't hear anything from him. That was in
Speaker 1: February of nineteen eighty five. In July nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 1: I got a phone call and the person said, it's
Speaker 1: a bow Golson from Criterion Music. Ted and Nashville just
Speaker 1: sent me your tape and I just listened to it.
Speaker 1: Would you like a publishing deal like that? Now? Every
Speaker 1: publisher I had talked to up to that point was
Speaker 1: encouraging to me, but no one had said, would you
Speaker 1: like a publishing deal? Would you like to write for us?
Speaker 1: People said things like, gosh, you know, I like this personally,
Speaker 1: but I just don't know what we'd do with it.
Speaker 1: Nobody expressed any kind of commitment until bow Golson and
Speaker 1: Bo said that in the you before I even said
Speaker 1: hello back, and he and he added, if you signed
Speaker 1: with us, I think we have a record deal for you,
Speaker 1: And I said, really, I said with who? He said,
Speaker 1: signed with us, and I'll tell you. So he invited
Speaker 1: me to come out to Los Angeles to see their
Speaker 1: offices out there and to meet him. I went, and
Speaker 1: he couldn't have been nicer. And they had an incredible catalog.
Speaker 1: I mean, they owned all of Charlie Parker's stuff. Lee
Speaker 1: Hazelwood was one of their writers. Rodney Kroll had been
Speaker 1: one of their writers, so Tom Kimmel was one of
Speaker 1: their writers. I just couldn't believe the titles that they
Speaker 1: had at that point. Did you still think you were
Speaker 1: going to be a performer or did you want to
Speaker 1: write for other people? I enjoyed performing and I had
Speaker 1: no intention of stopping performing. But I didn't have any
Speaker 1: expectation of performing beyond the gigs that I was already doing,
Speaker 1: you know, playing to places that held seventy five or
Speaker 1: a hundred people. Now, before you did that, you were
Speaker 1: at Texas A and M. That's true, and you met
Speaker 1: a lot of your songwriting heroes writing for the paper there.
Speaker 1: I did, were you really interviewing them? Were you just
Speaker 1: hitting them up for ideas? I started playing out when
Speaker 1: I was eighteen, So by the time I got into
Speaker 1: the School of Journalism, my main focus was performing. I
Speaker 1: didn't think performing was a realistic expectation for my life.
Speaker 1: Going to school was important to me because it was
Speaker 1: important to my parents. I've always been close to my
Speaker 1: parents and have always in any situation I've ever been in,
Speaker 1: if my parents would show up, I would always feel better.
Speaker 1: That's how supportive they always were. They were giving me
Speaker 1: the chance to do things they didn't get to do.
Speaker 1: That all seemed clear to me. You know. Halfway through,
Speaker 1: when I'd gotten my prerecorsites out of the way, I
Speaker 1: stopped thinking about, well, what do I want to study.
Speaker 1: I want a degree in, and I started thinking what
Speaker 1: can I get a degree in? And I'd always done
Speaker 1: well on papers, so I thought, let me just check
Speaker 1: into this. And when I got to the College of Journalism,
Speaker 1: when I went and met professors there and looked around
Speaker 1: and saw the students working at our daily paper, the Battalion,
Speaker 1: they were as as interested in writing and in getting
Speaker 1: that paper out and publishing as I was in booking
Speaker 1: my next gig. It was an electric atmosphere and I
Speaker 1: was drawn to it immediately. I was on the city desk.
Speaker 1: I went to every city council meeting for a year
Speaker 1: and a half and enjoyed learning about the local politics,
Speaker 1: enjoyed getting to know the councilman. But entertainment stories we
Speaker 1: would kind of draw straws for the entertainment stories were
Speaker 1: fun to do, you know, to be able to talk
Speaker 1: to two artists. I always put my name in the
Speaker 1: hat for the kinds of performers that I like to
Speaker 1: go and hear and often got to write about them.
Speaker 1: I mean it was certainly personally enriching, and I was
Speaker 1: I was just honored and excited to be in the
Speaker 1: room talking to somebody I was a fan of. But
Speaker 1: my objective in writing those stories was to, you know,
Speaker 1: to spread the gospel of Nancy Griffith, of Eric Taylor,
Speaker 1: of Don Sanders, of Stephen Fromhol's Michael Martin Murphy. And
Speaker 1: although Murphy was really well known and it was a
Speaker 1: big hit in those days, he did a concert in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five at Texas and m that I attended
Speaker 1: that was just pivotal in my growing up because he
Speaker 1: had a number one pop hit on the radio at
Speaker 1: that time wildfire, I mean pop hit, and there he
Speaker 1: was filled up the basketball arena and he did a
Speaker 1: two hour show, the first hour of which was him
Speaker 1: and his guitar, and he had, you know, seven thousand
Speaker 1: people at Gee Riley White Coliseum. Just made it seem
Speaker 1: like he was in a room of a hundred people.
Speaker 1: It was so quiet and such an intimate performance. And
Speaker 1: I saw the power of that, and I just thought,
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be amazing to do something like that? And
Speaker 1: when had you started playing guitar. I'm embarrassed to admit this,
Speaker 1: but I've started taking guitar lessons in second grade. I'm
Speaker 1: not a guitar player. I play well enough to accompany
Speaker 1: my songs, but nobody would hire me to play guitar
Speaker 1: in their band, you know. But I always loved playing.
Speaker 1: And my guitar teacher in those days was a man
Speaker 1: named Chuck Woods who was a session player around Houston.
Speaker 1: Our lessons were exercises and enjoyment. Really. He taught me
Speaker 1: to read treble Cleff taught me to count. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: would practice a little bit during the week, and other
Speaker 1: times I wouldn't practice at all, but I always looked
Speaker 1: forward to that that Monday night and later Thursday night
Speaker 1: lessons with him guitar with something in my life that
Speaker 1: it was just just always a positive. It was always
Speaker 1: something that I enjoyed. I don't feel like I'm really
Speaker 1: a competitive kind of person, so I didn't really have
Speaker 1: any kind of you know, anybody to play guitar with
Speaker 1: in school? Did he teach you fingerpicking a little bit?
Speaker 1: But my fingerpicking came from in my high school years.
Speaker 1: I took lessons at H and H Music Company on
Speaker 1: Caroline Street in downtown Houston. My buddy Bruce Lyon, who
Speaker 1: was a year older than I in high school and
Speaker 1: had his driver's license a year ahead of me. He
Speaker 1: would drive us in those days, totar a lesson and
Speaker 1: Freddie was his teacher. That's how I met Freddie. Freddie
Speaker 1: was a graduate student at University of Houston. He had
Speaker 1: this gorgeous read Gibson ES three fifty five stereo guitar
Speaker 1: and they played through a Fender amp and Freddie loved
Speaker 1: chet atkins. We learned chet arrangements of songs. He taught
Speaker 1: me how to alternate my thumb, so I owe that
Speaker 1: to Fred Foss. And then listening to Texas singer songwriters
Speaker 1: like Murphy. If you listen to Murphy's first album, in
Speaker 1: particular with a song like Boyfriend the Country, it's all
Speaker 1: about alternating that thumb. I asked, because there's something very
Speaker 1: distinctive about your finger picking on some songs. I must
Speaker 1: not be the only one who thinks this, because if
Speaker 1: you go on YouTube, there are about a thousand instructional
Speaker 1: videos to play If I Had a Boat to me,
Speaker 1: it's very snipped. A skinny Legs is another one that
Speaker 1: has that sound. You know, typically with fingerpicking, you know,
Speaker 1: people get the bass going and then they add a
Speaker 1: little right off the top. Particularly on If I Had
Speaker 1: a Boat, it's full of notes. You've got like sixteen
Speaker 1: notes right at the top of that, and not many
Speaker 1: people play that way. It's very it's very distinctive. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you. It's not unique and it's not even that unusual.
Speaker 1: John Hyatt and I are friends and have worked together
Speaker 1: for years doing songs, swap kinds of shows, and sometimes
Speaker 1: John will throw in one of those forward roles just
Speaker 1: to go, hey, I'm Auntie, I know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: And one of his songs which he gives he'll give
Speaker 1: me a grind. But that style alternating bass, that style
Speaker 1: of fingerpicking was prevalent among songwriters I would hear around Houston,
Speaker 1: like Eric Taylor, like Nancy Griffith, like Don Sanders, like
Speaker 1: Vince Bill. Because the performers I was drawn to were
Speaker 1: playing original music clubs and they're usually laying solo, that
Speaker 1: kind of fingerpicking, that those kinds of arrangements were a
Speaker 1: way to to have kind of a complete accompaniment, you know,
Speaker 1: without having to have a band. You know, there was
Speaker 1: something complete about that style of playing to my ear
Speaker 1: as I saw other people do it, That's why I
Speaker 1: did it. You know, you can express the song with
Speaker 1: just your guitar, but now you're playing. It's a little
Speaker 1: bit like your singing in a way. When I listened
Speaker 1: to you, you're very forward in the pocket the way
Speaker 1: you sing. Even when you sing blues gut you know,
Speaker 1: my baby, don't tolerate it's it's this big bluesy album
Speaker 1: of yours, but you're very at the top of each bar.
Speaker 1: I think, do you think? I think maybe because I
Speaker 1: worry about laying it back too much, I do think
Speaker 1: about that. I do you find that in the in
Speaker 1: the towards the end of the phrases. Sometimes I'll try
Speaker 1: I try not to lay it back too much. We're
Speaker 1: talking to Paul Simon. You know, he talked about when
Speaker 1: he was singing with Garfunkel, everything was very upfront, and
Speaker 1: when he became a solo arts and he really had
Speaker 1: to rethink, he found himself moving further and further back
Speaker 1: in the pocket. And you know he's got that now.
Speaker 1: I've had the good fortune of being around Paul Simon
Speaker 1: a few times. You know, I wouldn't say we're you know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know him well, but I've gotten to
Speaker 1: be part of some special events with him, and I
Speaker 1: know Edie and he's such a lovely, you know, brilliant person. Gosh,
Speaker 1: you know what a wonderful combination of feeling and thinking
Speaker 1: the impact of his music feels purely emotional. But then
Speaker 1: you know it's all thought out. I mean, there's not
Speaker 1: a word or a note that hasn't been considered. There's
Speaker 1: so much going on in those songs. Two beautiful albums
Speaker 1: to listen to. Amen Back in the old days, you know,
Speaker 1: and I made my first demos and really only my
Speaker 1: first record that we mix on an analog board. But
Speaker 1: mixes were as much of a performance as tracking was.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you'd have three or four people on a board
Speaker 1: making their moves at the right time. And the question
Speaker 1: at the end of a mix wasn't well, show we
Speaker 1: mix it again? It was always well you think we
Speaker 1: can beat that one? I mean it was a performance. Well,
Speaker 1: now I'm mixing. Isn't like that? Because everything's automated, You
Speaker 1: can recall mixes ten back if you want to, and
Speaker 1: go back to something if you feel like if you've
Speaker 1: gotten away from what was good. The ability to be
Speaker 1: detailed is endless, and artists like Paul Simon are they
Speaker 1: realize everything is important. Every sound has an impact. How
Speaker 1: detailed are you in the studio? I'm detailed? My mom
Speaker 1: her last secret Joe's job was in the publications department
Speaker 1: at X which which is really part of the reason
Speaker 1: that I was interested in journalism. The publications department would
Speaker 1: allow my mom to check out cameras. Ended up writing
Speaker 1: for Local Motorcycle publication. The art director for Xon Publications
Speaker 1: is a really sweet man named Richard Paint. He agreed.
Speaker 1: I asked him if he would paint a helmet for me,
Speaker 1: because all the you know, how you looked was almost
Speaker 1: as important as how fast you went. He drew up
Speaker 1: several designs which I rejected, and then finally he came
Speaker 1: with the design that I liked, and he scrawled a
Speaker 1: note across his drawing of it, and he said, Burnell,
Speaker 1: that's my mom's name, Burnell. See if this does anything
Speaker 1: for that piggy kid. Now I was thirteen, you know
Speaker 1: I'm thirteen. I have that framed in my office. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been accused of being I don't think I'm picky.
Speaker 1: I just want to get things the way they sound
Speaker 1: good to me. But you know, I've been fortunate to
Speaker 1: work with generous people in my life that tolerate my
Speaker 1: preferences and help me, you know, ultimately, just help me
Speaker 1: get something to where I like it. Tony Brown, Billy
Speaker 1: Williams and Chuck Anley, who engineered the Large Band record,
Speaker 1: and George Massenberg, Nathaniel Kuncle, who I met together in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one to record Joshua Joe's Ruth and then
Speaker 1: recorded everything since that with Nathaniel Kuncle. Before we get
Speaker 1: off the subject of that great wave of Texas songwriters,
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you more about how they
Speaker 1: influenced you. I do want to ask you about one,
Speaker 1: and that's willis Allan Ramsay who's this sort of singular figure,
Speaker 1: maybe because he put out one album, But can you
Speaker 1: tell me a bit about about him and your relationship
Speaker 1: with him. I've discovered his first record through my friend
Speaker 1: Bruce lyon gosh it was nineteen seventy four, and bought
Speaker 1: it and just you know, immediately started trying to learn
Speaker 1: every song on it. The thing that really drew me
Speaker 1: into Willis, besides his melody and use of language, was
Speaker 1: his blues influence. All of those songs, you hear blues
Speaker 1: in all of them, and I loved his voice, and
Speaker 1: I just thought, gosh, this is amazing. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is old blues and new music. Could you just a
Speaker 1: couple bars of a Willis Alan Ramsey song? True, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish it was a millionaire. I play rocking music
Speaker 1: and grow along. Tell you boy, I buy new roads,
Speaker 1: bringing women come to me. I give mall the third degree.
Speaker 1: You can send Jeeves to keep Martha's streeting to do Halleluia,
Speaker 1: let me zaga due, praise the Lord Pas and Mascal
Speaker 1: lad and grate your whole Oh you come as soon
Speaker 1: as him and blen my glab. Willis is a major
Speaker 1: influence on me. I got to know Willis personally, and he's,
Speaker 1: you know, one of my closest friends. I just admire
Speaker 1: his He's now talk about detailed Willis Is. I'm convinced
Speaker 1: that Willis allan Ramsay, can hear things that I can't hear.
Speaker 1: He perceives things sonically that other people are imperceptible. I
Speaker 1: got to interview him in nineteen seventy nine because the
Speaker 1: Basement booked me to open for him, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: I'll ask the Battalion if I can write about it.
Speaker 1: And I said yes, And so I'm interviewing him in
Speaker 1: between sets. And I asked him in nineteen seventy nine
Speaker 1: the obvious question. The first thing I said to him
Speaker 1: was when you know, meaning the second album? And I
Speaker 1: asked him a one word question. When he gave me
Speaker 1: a one word answer, he said soon. And that was
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine. I asked friend of mine who
Speaker 1: teaches journalism in Austin, now, what is your most Texas song?
Speaker 1: And he said, this old porch Ah very nice and
Speaker 1: which is a which was a you know, a collaboration,
Speaker 1: which is an unintended co write with my friend Robert O'Keane.
Speaker 1: And he said Robert enjoys saying son of a bitch
Speaker 1: a little more than you do in that song, and
Speaker 1: I and I put it in, Yeah, Robert. It was
Speaker 1: the spring of nineteen eighty and Robert and I had
Speaker 1: stretched our undergraduate career as long as we could at
Speaker 1: tex AM. Robert was class of seventy eight. I was
Speaker 1: class of seventy nine. We graduated in August of nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty on the same day. We were two of just
Speaker 1: a few students from the college with Liberal Arts who
Speaker 1: graduated that day. His name started with a K, mine
Speaker 1: with an L. We sat right next to each other.
Speaker 1: It was it was perfect, but we were both thinking, well,
Speaker 1: what are we going to do? You know, neither one
Speaker 1: of us had been interviewing for jobs. We wanted to
Speaker 1: play music. And Robert played for me that spring a
Speaker 1: new song and it was the first three verses of
Speaker 1: what he called the front Ports song, and it was,
Speaker 1: you know, a different tempo than I play it, and
Speaker 1: it had some spoken word connections between the verses, which
Speaker 1: suited Robert's personality great. And I said, well, I want
Speaker 1: to learn that right now. Teach it to me. So
Speaker 1: he did, and I went back to my apartment and
Speaker 1: kept played it and played it, played it, and I
Speaker 1: started thinking to myself, Robert painted these beautiful pictures of
Speaker 1: places that we would go to, of places we loved,
Speaker 1: in places we would miss, but he left himself out
Speaker 1: of the song. And Robert had a wonderful relationship with
Speaker 1: his landlord, man named Jack Boyett, who was in his seventies.
Speaker 1: He seemed ancient, but he was just in his seventies.
Speaker 1: And that area of town had been the Boyett family
Speaker 1: farm years before and been sold off subvided a dilapidated
Speaker 1: old farmhouse with a front porch that was always in
Speaker 1: need of propping up, and Robert and his roommate Brian
Speaker 1: Duckworth were always working on it and we'd all help,
Speaker 1: and it was just the place where we all hung out.
Speaker 1: I learned Robert's song, played it over and over, and
Speaker 1: I started thinking about the tenderness Robert showed to mister Boyett,
Speaker 1: who was regarded by his other tenants as being a
Speaker 1: slum lord insensitive. And one thing that mister Boyett was
Speaker 1: sort of famous for was he would just walk into
Speaker 1: those rent houses as though they were his, as though
Speaker 1: somebody else wasn't living there. And most of his tenants.
Speaker 1: I mean some people moved out. Most of his tenants
Speaker 1: were upset by that. And Robert when mister Boyett would
Speaker 1: just walk in the front door and walk into the
Speaker 1: kitchen and look into the refrigerator and say, hey, mister Boyett,
Speaker 1: come on in. And I just always admired Robert's relationship
Speaker 1: with him. I admired how Robert looked out for mister Boyett,
Speaker 1: how he would go down to his mister Boyett's farm
Speaker 1: place in Millican, Texas and help him with his cows
Speaker 1: and help him patch the fence and just whatever he
Speaker 1: needed to do, or go to lunch with mister Boyett.
Speaker 1: And so I started thinking about that, and I wrote
Speaker 1: the last three verses of that song and then went
Speaker 1: to Robert and said, look, I'm not trying to meddle,
Speaker 1: but can play this for you. And he really meant
Speaker 1: a lot to me. He said, oh, I love that.
Speaker 1: Let's keep it. We didn't really write the song together.
Speaker 1: We wrote it separately in two parts, and I played
Speaker 1: it the way I play it, and I left out
Speaker 1: Robert's spoken word parts because I thought those who should
Speaker 1: be unique to him. It's interesting that he had spoken
Speaker 1: word parts that you say, sort of connected some of
Speaker 1: the images. Yes, you know a lot of your writing
Speaker 1: I think of back then as being very impressionistic. Don't
Speaker 1: spell everything out, leave room for people to connect the
Speaker 1: dots themselves, don't tell them how to connect the dots.
Speaker 1: That kind of writing appeals to me. Is it something
Speaker 1: where you have the idea and then you strip away
Speaker 1: the connections or does it come out of the language.
Speaker 1: I think it's more fun to drop breadcrumbs than it
Speaker 1: is to pave the path. So a song like Pontiac,
Speaker 1: for example, Yes, did that start with a character? Or
Speaker 1: did that it did start with character? Was that something
Speaker 1: you observed Before everybody became a songwriter. People sometimes would
Speaker 1: suggest topics to write about, and my girlfriend at the
Speaker 1: time said, you know what, you should write a song
Speaker 1: about it? You know, My first thought was, yes, anything
Speaker 1: except for what you're about to say. And she said.
Speaker 1: She told me where she lived, and there was a
Speaker 1: there was an art gallery next door, and she said,
Speaker 1: there's a you know, there's a man that parks here
Speaker 1: every afternoon. He says you should go talk to him,
Speaker 1: and so I paid attention, and sure enough, he had
Speaker 1: one of those old kind of faded GM blue that
Speaker 1: that they had in those in those days. This was
Speaker 1: in the mid eighties and I can't I can't remember
Speaker 1: if it was a Vonneville, but what it was, it
Speaker 1: was a sedan. He would open the door and Jack's
Speaker 1: leg at the side, and he would smoke a cigarette
Speaker 1: and there would be a can of coke on the
Speaker 1: dashboard and he would It was just kind of on
Speaker 1: a hill that went down to Shoal Creek in Austin,
Speaker 1: and I thought, I don't want to talk to him.
Speaker 1: It's like it seemed like such a ritual to him
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't want to disturb it. I just imagined
Speaker 1: what his story might be. But the idea was you
Speaker 1: just don't know everything that's behind that face that you're seeing.
Speaker 1: It's an experience that's common to all of us. That's
Speaker 1: why in the music video, it is the very first
Speaker 1: music video I ever did. I wanted to just have
Speaker 1: portraits of people in a way to say this story
Speaker 1: could belong to any of these people, or conversely, to
Speaker 1: say the story that you're hearing about, each of these
Speaker 1: people have their own story as well. And I'm in
Speaker 1: the very last shot of that, and the record company
Speaker 1: just you know, had very little reaction to the video
Speaker 1: except you're not in it. And I said, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm there there, I am right there. It's just at
Speaker 1: the very end. I said, well, yeah, it's a song
Speaker 1: like a simple song. It's the same way. There's no
Speaker 1: chorus to it. It goes right through. Was that something
Speaker 1: Guy Clark or another songwriter had done that you admired.
Speaker 1: It was just how it came out, and it was,
Speaker 1: you know, simple song was earlier. You know, I made
Speaker 1: up simple song. I think when I was eighteen. I
Speaker 1: was a freshman and we were studying in English class.
Speaker 1: We were studying the five paragraph paper. So I was
Speaker 1: I thought, okay, I'm going to try to make up
Speaker 1: a five verse song, you know, with the introductory verse,
Speaker 1: three verses in the body, and then a conclusion verse.
Speaker 1: That was a simple song. But but I don't I
Speaker 1: didn't feel as though songs needed, you know, necessarily needed
Speaker 1: a chorus. Funny thinking about that album, maybe one of
Speaker 1: the most conventional songs is La County, which is actually
Speaker 1: the most violent song, but it has the most um
Speaker 1: immediately grasped kind of feel and structure. It's a story
Speaker 1: song and you've got the chorus, but it's got the
Speaker 1: most surprising ending and musically. But musically it's really unconventional
Speaker 1: in that, you know, there are only two chords in
Speaker 1: the song. Playing that for the first time to Tony Brown,
Speaker 1: he raised his eyebrows. He said, really, really, it's just
Speaker 1: two chords. I said, let's just try it. Let's try it.
Speaker 1: So it was very order. All right, I've taken up
Speaker 1: to the norms fount of your time, but it's been
Speaker 1: hugely enjoyed. I'm sorry I talked so much. We're not
Speaker 1: using tape anymore, so it's not like we're seeing the
Speaker 1: real Thanks allow love It for coming on Broken Record
Speaker 1: to talk about his life, career and a new level.
Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite Lyle Lovett songs
Speaker 1: on my playlist at Broken record podcast dot com. Be
Speaker 1: sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot
Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record Podcast, where we can find all
Speaker 1: of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter
Speaker 1: at broken Record. Broken Record is produced help from the
Speaker 1: Arose Jason Gambrel, Bent Holiday, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez
Speaker 1: the engineer, and help from Nick Chafee. Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Neil be Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
Speaker 1: If you like this show and others from Pushkin, consider
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Speaker 1: spyt Candy Beats, I'm justin Richmond,