1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:22,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, it's justin Richmond. Today on the show we 2 00:00:22,916 --> 00:00:27,116 Speaker 1: have Grammy Award winning singer songwriter Lyle love It. Love 3 00:00:27,156 --> 00:00:30,796 Speaker 1: It follows in the footsteps of Texas troubadours like Gary Clark, 4 00:00:31,076 --> 00:00:34,436 Speaker 1: Walter Hyatt, and my personal favorite textan of all time, 5 00:00:34,756 --> 00:00:38,156 Speaker 1: towns Van Zandt. In nineteen eighty six, he laid the 6 00:00:38,196 --> 00:00:42,076 Speaker 1: foundation for alternative country in Americana movements with his debut 7 00:00:42,156 --> 00:00:45,396 Speaker 1: self titled album. The album shot up to number fourteen 8 00:00:45,436 --> 00:00:48,356 Speaker 1: on the Billboard Country Charts, and the rest, as they say, 9 00:00:48,676 --> 00:00:52,276 Speaker 1: is history. Since that time, Love It has continued to 10 00:00:52,396 --> 00:00:55,316 Speaker 1: light up country music with a rich blend of country, 11 00:00:55,476 --> 00:00:59,916 Speaker 1: big band, blues, folk, and jazz. All of those sounds 12 00:00:59,916 --> 00:01:02,836 Speaker 1: are on display in twelfth of June, his first new 13 00:01:02,836 --> 00:01:07,236 Speaker 1: album in a decade. On today's episode, Lovett speaks to 14 00:01:07,276 --> 00:01:10,556 Speaker 1: Bruce Headlam about his new album, a project rooted in 15 00:01:10,636 --> 00:01:14,276 Speaker 1: home and family, which makes sense considering his role as 16 00:01:14,316 --> 00:01:18,316 Speaker 1: a newly minted dad to twins at sixty four. Love 17 00:01:18,316 --> 00:01:20,836 Speaker 1: It also shares stories of his early days playing gigs 18 00:01:20,916 --> 00:01:27,716 Speaker 1: around Texas A and M University. This is broken record, 19 00:01:28,076 --> 00:01:30,756 Speaker 1: Liner notes for the digital age. I'm just a mission. 20 00:01:31,676 --> 00:01:35,076 Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Headlam with Lyle Love It. You have a 21 00:01:35,116 --> 00:01:38,556 Speaker 1: new album. You're first in ten years. It would have 22 00:01:38,556 --> 00:01:41,276 Speaker 1: been eight years had it not been for the pandemic, 23 00:01:41,396 --> 00:01:43,716 Speaker 1: but that was the idea. We cut tracks in November 24 00:01:43,876 --> 00:01:48,676 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen with the idea of finishing in March, maybe 25 00:01:48,676 --> 00:01:51,476 Speaker 1: into April of twenty twenty. I did a tour from 26 00:01:51,476 --> 00:01:53,956 Speaker 1: the end of January into the seventh of March. Seventh 27 00:01:53,956 --> 00:01:57,236 Speaker 1: of March was the last live date I played on 28 00:01:57,276 --> 00:01:59,236 Speaker 1: that tour. It was the last live date I played 29 00:01:59,516 --> 00:02:02,796 Speaker 1: until after The Serious Isolation. You've always had a heavy 30 00:02:02,796 --> 00:02:05,996 Speaker 1: tour schedule. I assume that means you like touring. What 31 00:02:06,116 --> 00:02:08,196 Speaker 1: was it like to just be forced off the road. 32 00:02:09,196 --> 00:02:12,116 Speaker 1: It was, you know, anxious, and it was fraught with 33 00:02:13,356 --> 00:02:17,876 Speaker 1: worry and figuring things out constantly. But the flip side 34 00:02:17,916 --> 00:02:20,676 Speaker 1: of that was being home. I hadn't been at home 35 00:02:20,956 --> 00:02:24,636 Speaker 1: that much, you know, since since I started, and I 36 00:02:24,876 --> 00:02:27,956 Speaker 1: really enjoyed that, you know. I like getting to be 37 00:02:28,036 --> 00:02:32,596 Speaker 1: in the room with smart and talented people, and I've 38 00:02:32,636 --> 00:02:35,516 Speaker 1: been fortunate to be blessed in that way my whole 39 00:02:35,516 --> 00:02:37,596 Speaker 1: life and my career. And I get to work with 40 00:02:37,596 --> 00:02:42,756 Speaker 1: some of the best and most known musicians in the world, 41 00:02:42,956 --> 00:02:48,276 Speaker 1: and that's uplifting and inspiring. I missed my association with 42 00:02:48,316 --> 00:02:51,596 Speaker 1: my friends, but I love being home. Now. Are you 43 00:02:51,636 --> 00:02:54,196 Speaker 1: the kind of writer who needs to write every day? 44 00:02:54,876 --> 00:02:57,236 Speaker 1: I wish I were the kind of writer that needed 45 00:02:57,276 --> 00:02:59,236 Speaker 1: to write every day, or that could write every day. 46 00:02:59,476 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 1: I lack the skills to approach it as a craft. 47 00:03:02,996 --> 00:03:08,436 Speaker 1: I think my songs come more from feelings than they 48 00:03:08,476 --> 00:03:12,276 Speaker 1: do from thought, and so that's something I think about, 49 00:03:12,316 --> 00:03:15,676 Speaker 1: that's something I work towards still. But writing for me 50 00:03:15,796 --> 00:03:17,836 Speaker 1: is not a thought about kind of thing. It's more 51 00:03:17,836 --> 00:03:21,396 Speaker 1: of an emotional reaction. So are you the kind that 52 00:03:21,756 --> 00:03:24,356 Speaker 1: do you have a notebook with you all the time 53 00:03:24,636 --> 00:03:27,476 Speaker 1: right now? No. When I was a boy, my parents 54 00:03:27,476 --> 00:03:31,556 Speaker 1: both worked and I come home from school and have 55 00:03:32,676 --> 00:03:34,836 Speaker 1: three or four hours by myself at home, and I 56 00:03:34,836 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 1: would watch afternoon TV. And one of the shows that 57 00:03:36,796 --> 00:03:39,196 Speaker 1: I would watch the afternoon was the old Mike Douglas Show. 58 00:03:39,916 --> 00:03:42,636 Speaker 1: One time I saw Buck Owens on the Mike Douglas Show, 59 00:03:42,676 --> 00:03:44,316 Speaker 1: and you know, years later I got to meet Buck. 60 00:03:44,356 --> 00:03:47,196 Speaker 1: He was really sweet to me, really kind and funny, 61 00:03:47,276 --> 00:03:49,276 Speaker 1: and reminded me of my uncle's. You know, I kind 62 00:03:49,316 --> 00:03:50,916 Speaker 1: of get tease you and give you a hard time. 63 00:03:51,476 --> 00:03:53,956 Speaker 1: Mike Douglas asked him that do you, well, how do 64 00:03:53,996 --> 00:03:56,876 Speaker 1: you write songs? How do you And Buck said no, 65 00:03:57,156 --> 00:03:59,796 Speaker 1: he said, I figure if it's good enough, I'll remember it. 66 00:04:00,236 --> 00:04:03,476 Speaker 1: I just always thought of that, and so that's might 67 00:04:03,556 --> 00:04:06,876 Speaker 1: see us anyway. I blame it on. But it surprises 68 00:04:06,876 --> 00:04:08,956 Speaker 1: me when you say all your songs come out of feelings, 69 00:04:09,436 --> 00:04:12,236 Speaker 1: because I think most people would think of you as 70 00:04:12,276 --> 00:04:15,836 Speaker 1: a pretty cerebral song writer. There's a lot of wordplay, 71 00:04:16,356 --> 00:04:18,956 Speaker 1: there's a lot of images. You know, if I had 72 00:04:18,956 --> 00:04:22,636 Speaker 1: a boat, has that image of someone on a pony 73 00:04:22,716 --> 00:04:25,196 Speaker 1: on a boat, which I think probably everybody who knows 74 00:04:25,236 --> 00:04:27,956 Speaker 1: and loves that song keeps in their mind. It almost 75 00:04:27,996 --> 00:04:30,836 Speaker 1: does a kind of Buster Keaton quality. I mean my 76 00:04:30,916 --> 00:04:33,876 Speaker 1: songwriting process, yeah, it starts always with some sort of 77 00:04:34,076 --> 00:04:37,396 Speaker 1: feeling and then thinking about how to express that and 78 00:04:37,476 --> 00:04:39,956 Speaker 1: thinking about you know what am I trying to say here? 79 00:04:40,396 --> 00:04:42,876 Speaker 1: I mean, it's always a puzzle and it's always a challenge. 80 00:04:43,276 --> 00:04:45,876 Speaker 1: And I don't know how other writers approach writing any 81 00:04:45,956 --> 00:04:50,476 Speaker 1: kind of writing, but I always feel as though I'm 82 00:04:50,636 --> 00:04:54,196 Speaker 1: lost and just trying to find my way through the darkness. 83 00:04:54,636 --> 00:04:59,316 Speaker 1: Having the complete idea is the hardest part, and then 84 00:04:59,356 --> 00:05:03,636 Speaker 1: writing words to that idea is still hard for me, 85 00:05:03,716 --> 00:05:07,276 Speaker 1: but it's easier once you have something to write too. 86 00:05:08,036 --> 00:05:10,156 Speaker 1: And when you say right two, does that mean like 87 00:05:10,156 --> 00:05:13,516 Speaker 1: an image or a turn of phrase, an image or 88 00:05:13,556 --> 00:05:16,076 Speaker 1: just what you want the song to? Ultimately say? What 89 00:05:16,156 --> 00:05:20,796 Speaker 1: am I trying to communicate? Music's impact on us as people, 90 00:05:21,116 --> 00:05:24,716 Speaker 1: in my opinion, is an emotional impact. It makes you 91 00:05:24,836 --> 00:05:28,436 Speaker 1: feel something. You can take in a work of music 92 00:05:29,356 --> 00:05:32,516 Speaker 1: and not have to hit the pause button on your life. 93 00:05:32,716 --> 00:05:34,436 Speaker 1: You know, to stand in front of a painting, you 94 00:05:34,476 --> 00:05:37,556 Speaker 1: have to stand still and look at it. To go 95 00:05:37,636 --> 00:05:40,876 Speaker 1: to a film, you sit in a dark theater and 96 00:05:40,956 --> 00:05:43,276 Speaker 1: you watch a film. To read a book, you stay 97 00:05:43,316 --> 00:05:48,036 Speaker 1: in one place and you read. You can fix supper, 98 00:05:48,916 --> 00:05:51,956 Speaker 1: you can drive somewhere you know, you can carry on 99 00:05:51,996 --> 00:05:54,036 Speaker 1: with your life and listen to music. And you can 100 00:05:54,036 --> 00:05:58,076 Speaker 1: either listen to it intently as though it's a film, 101 00:05:58,156 --> 00:06:00,516 Speaker 1: as though it's a play, as though it's a book, 102 00:06:01,076 --> 00:06:03,396 Speaker 1: or you can have it be background music and it 103 00:06:03,436 --> 00:06:09,036 Speaker 1: can still make you feel something. And the nicest compliment 104 00:06:09,196 --> 00:06:13,516 Speaker 1: that I feel like I ever get paid it's when 105 00:06:13,556 --> 00:06:16,476 Speaker 1: they say I remember exactly what I was doing the 106 00:06:16,556 --> 00:06:20,716 Speaker 1: first time I heard that song for me. When my 107 00:06:20,876 --> 00:06:24,716 Speaker 1: song reminds somebody of his own life, his or her 108 00:06:24,756 --> 00:06:29,076 Speaker 1: own life, I feel like that's the most I can 109 00:06:29,116 --> 00:06:31,796 Speaker 1: ask for. So, what were the feelings you're trying to 110 00:06:31,836 --> 00:06:34,996 Speaker 1: capture going into this album? To answer your question the 111 00:06:35,036 --> 00:06:37,516 Speaker 1: way you ask it would make it seem more deliberate 112 00:06:38,076 --> 00:06:43,356 Speaker 1: than it is. I feel somehow compelled to write about 113 00:06:43,396 --> 00:06:48,316 Speaker 1: my feelings just for myself, and I evaluate later if 114 00:06:49,236 --> 00:06:54,516 Speaker 1: what I've made up could be a song in my 115 00:06:54,596 --> 00:06:57,236 Speaker 1: show or a song I'm worth playing to somebody. And 116 00:06:57,316 --> 00:07:00,476 Speaker 1: so in these last years, I mean, the thing that's 117 00:07:00,516 --> 00:07:05,596 Speaker 1: been my life, the thing that's consumed my life gladly, 118 00:07:06,356 --> 00:07:08,716 Speaker 1: has been wanting to have a family and then having 119 00:07:08,716 --> 00:07:14,716 Speaker 1: a family. My original songs are about family, or are 120 00:07:14,836 --> 00:07:20,876 Speaker 1: inspired by family and those kinds of close relationships that 121 00:07:21,476 --> 00:07:27,796 Speaker 1: evolve over a person's life. These songs range from being 122 00:07:27,836 --> 00:07:33,156 Speaker 1: in the moment, but also to looking back and talking 123 00:07:33,196 --> 00:07:37,396 Speaker 1: about the shift in perspective, from being a eighteen year 124 00:07:37,396 --> 00:07:41,676 Speaker 1: old kid trying to play a gig anywhere he could, 125 00:07:42,036 --> 00:07:45,756 Speaker 1: to being a twenty eight year old recording act with 126 00:07:45,836 --> 00:07:48,836 Speaker 1: his first album out, you know, to being sixty four 127 00:07:48,916 --> 00:07:54,156 Speaker 1: years old and trying to be relevant in my own time, 128 00:07:54,956 --> 00:07:58,516 Speaker 1: not trying to fit into what's going on currently, what's 129 00:07:59,156 --> 00:08:03,076 Speaker 1: necessarily popular, but just trying to be accurate and trying 130 00:08:03,116 --> 00:08:07,476 Speaker 1: to be where I am at this point in my life. 131 00:08:08,116 --> 00:08:11,596 Speaker 1: You also look ahead in the song June the twelfth, 132 00:08:12,476 --> 00:08:15,756 Speaker 1: which is your children's birthday. Is that right? It is? Yes, okay, 133 00:08:15,876 --> 00:08:18,876 Speaker 1: looking ahead wondering how long you're going to be there. 134 00:08:19,196 --> 00:08:22,716 Speaker 1: I never considered my age really or didn't think about 135 00:08:22,756 --> 00:08:25,916 Speaker 1: it in the same way until they were born. I 136 00:08:25,956 --> 00:08:28,636 Speaker 1: started doing the math. I thought, you know, gosh, I 137 00:08:28,676 --> 00:08:31,156 Speaker 1: hope I can make it until they start school. I 138 00:08:31,156 --> 00:08:34,836 Speaker 1: hope I make it until they graduate from eighth grade 139 00:08:34,916 --> 00:08:36,796 Speaker 1: or high school. You know, if I can see him 140 00:08:36,796 --> 00:08:38,796 Speaker 1: go to college, wouldn't that be wonderful? If I see 141 00:08:38,836 --> 00:08:41,276 Speaker 1: I'm getting married, if I see them have children, wouldn't 142 00:08:41,316 --> 00:08:44,716 Speaker 1: that would be miraculous? And so I started, you know, 143 00:08:44,836 --> 00:08:47,516 Speaker 1: thinking in those terms. I don't know if the best 144 00:08:47,556 --> 00:08:50,596 Speaker 1: description is there's songs about knowing you're out of love 145 00:08:50,876 --> 00:08:57,436 Speaker 1: or just incompatibility or fate. You've got some beautiful songs 146 00:08:57,436 --> 00:08:59,036 Speaker 1: in that vein on this album i'd like you to 147 00:08:59,076 --> 00:09:01,876 Speaker 1: talk about. Which is the first is the mocking Ones? 148 00:09:02,436 --> 00:09:04,796 Speaker 1: Thank you? Once again. It's a kind of an age 149 00:09:04,876 --> 00:09:12,356 Speaker 1: perspective and that when you're younger, you imagine being close 150 00:09:12,836 --> 00:09:18,876 Speaker 1: always to people you're close to, and it doesn't necessarily 151 00:09:18,916 --> 00:09:21,636 Speaker 1: work out that way. I mean, you just don't stay 152 00:09:21,636 --> 00:09:23,556 Speaker 1: close to everyone you'd like to stay close to you. 153 00:09:24,316 --> 00:09:26,836 Speaker 1: So it's really a song about friendship, and it's a 154 00:09:26,876 --> 00:09:31,916 Speaker 1: song about lives growing apart, and how you know when 155 00:09:31,956 --> 00:09:35,676 Speaker 1: you might run into somebody that you knew from who 156 00:09:35,796 --> 00:09:41,156 Speaker 1: was important to you from before, it affects you, that 157 00:09:41,316 --> 00:09:44,276 Speaker 1: doesn't affect you. It's mixed, isn't it. In a way, 158 00:09:44,356 --> 00:09:52,476 Speaker 1: it's a wonderful bringing of that time back immediately, and 159 00:09:53,796 --> 00:09:59,436 Speaker 1: it also brings up a feeling of loss, and ultimately 160 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:03,916 Speaker 1: in that song resolves in hey, it's great to see you. 161 00:10:05,276 --> 00:10:07,996 Speaker 1: Before we pause for a break, let's hear Lyle Lovett 162 00:10:08,036 --> 00:10:12,116 Speaker 1: plays new song mocking Ones from the album twelfth of June. 163 00:10:14,116 --> 00:10:22,236 Speaker 1: My old friend, you know you're good to see. How 164 00:10:22,316 --> 00:10:29,596 Speaker 1: have missed the way you look at me? You bring 165 00:10:29,596 --> 00:10:38,516 Speaker 1: a man of many memory of how things were and 166 00:10:38,836 --> 00:10:47,956 Speaker 1: how they couldn't be because we never did see id 167 00:10:47,996 --> 00:11:00,356 Speaker 1: eye STEI loved each other. God knows why. Now it's 168 00:11:00,556 --> 00:11:09,836 Speaker 1: light aids in the western sky, all that chances esteem 169 00:11:10,436 --> 00:11:17,756 Speaker 1: to pass us by. Nor I've always wished for you 170 00:11:17,836 --> 00:11:25,716 Speaker 1: good luck. But as I rummaged to the rest and 171 00:11:26,476 --> 00:11:34,476 Speaker 1: us to save myself, I said it and did us 172 00:11:37,436 --> 00:11:46,276 Speaker 1: and thought of you and me no more. Oh we 173 00:11:46,436 --> 00:11:55,436 Speaker 1: never did see add eye stew We love each other. 174 00:11:55,956 --> 00:12:05,036 Speaker 1: God knows why. Naw, it's light's in the residence sky. 175 00:12:08,476 --> 00:12:17,556 Speaker 1: Oh my chances steamed the beast less by, I said before, 176 00:12:18,036 --> 00:12:25,796 Speaker 1: and now the long times come to wait, to get 177 00:12:25,916 --> 00:12:35,116 Speaker 1: and still remember some the whole my heads above laughing 178 00:12:35,756 --> 00:12:47,556 Speaker 1: ungs bawling from faces of the mocking ones. So, my 179 00:12:47,636 --> 00:12:55,916 Speaker 1: old friend, you know you could disease. You bring a 180 00:12:56,036 --> 00:13:05,196 Speaker 1: man such lovely memories. Oh, I missed the way you 181 00:13:05,356 --> 00:13:35,196 Speaker 1: look at me. We're back with Bruce Hellam's conversation with 182 00:13:35,276 --> 00:13:40,116 Speaker 1: Lyle love It. You mentioned growing up coming home, your 183 00:13:40,116 --> 00:13:43,036 Speaker 1: parents both working. Was their music in your house? Growing up? 184 00:13:43,236 --> 00:13:46,876 Speaker 1: My parents subscribe to the Old Columbia Record Club and 185 00:13:47,036 --> 00:13:49,836 Speaker 1: they get a new album every month, and they were 186 00:13:49,876 --> 00:13:52,356 Speaker 1: really nice about letting me play their records when they 187 00:13:52,396 --> 00:13:55,236 Speaker 1: were away from home, and I was very particular about 188 00:13:55,236 --> 00:13:58,036 Speaker 1: them anyway, So I listened to their records a lot, 189 00:13:58,076 --> 00:14:01,356 Speaker 1: and there was quite a variety of artists that the 190 00:14:01,516 --> 00:14:04,196 Speaker 1: record club would send them, and they would buy records too. 191 00:14:04,716 --> 00:14:08,996 Speaker 1: Their record collection had country records. I remember a great 192 00:14:09,156 --> 00:14:13,756 Speaker 1: sampler record with Carl Smith and Lefty Frizelle. You know, 193 00:14:13,756 --> 00:14:16,476 Speaker 1: they had Ray Charles Records, they had Ray Price Records, 194 00:14:16,916 --> 00:14:20,156 Speaker 1: they had Nat King Cole Records, Perry Como Records, had 195 00:14:20,156 --> 00:14:23,076 Speaker 1: Glenn Miller Records. And growing up in a city like 196 00:14:23,156 --> 00:14:29,076 Speaker 1: Houston that Cosmo falls in a place radio was well 197 00:14:29,196 --> 00:14:33,276 Speaker 1: represented pop radio, country radio. I would go from channel 198 00:14:33,316 --> 00:14:36,716 Speaker 1: the channel and listen to all kinds of music. I 199 00:14:36,756 --> 00:14:38,876 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about Nat King Cole because you 200 00:14:38,996 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: cover two songs of his two songs he made famous 201 00:14:43,436 --> 00:14:46,716 Speaker 1: on this album, and in fact, two songs he recorded 202 00:14:46,716 --> 00:14:49,956 Speaker 1: in the same session. I think I didn't know that. Yeah, 203 00:14:49,996 --> 00:14:53,276 Speaker 1: in the same session he recorded Straighten Up and Fly Right, 204 00:14:54,156 --> 00:14:58,436 Speaker 1: which he rode, and Gee Baby and I Good to You. 205 00:14:59,156 --> 00:15:01,676 Speaker 1: I was just a boy when his television show was 206 00:15:01,676 --> 00:15:03,996 Speaker 1: on the air, and I used to love watching him. 207 00:15:04,036 --> 00:15:07,716 Speaker 1: He was such an elegant host and so gracious with 208 00:15:07,756 --> 00:15:11,476 Speaker 1: his guests. Both of the songs I wouldn't have thought 209 00:15:11,556 --> 00:15:17,716 Speaker 1: to approach, But in nineteen ninety three, Matt Rawlings, who 210 00:15:17,916 --> 00:15:22,156 Speaker 1: has played piano and keyboards with me from the very beginning. 211 00:15:22,636 --> 00:15:25,996 Speaker 1: Matt was doing a solo, his first solo record for 212 00:15:26,076 --> 00:15:29,196 Speaker 1: the MCA Master Series, which was an instrumental label that 213 00:15:29,516 --> 00:15:33,796 Speaker 1: MCA Nashville was doing, and Matt asked me if I 214 00:15:33,796 --> 00:15:36,956 Speaker 1: would sing g Babiana Good to You with him, and 215 00:15:36,996 --> 00:15:40,356 Speaker 1: it was more about the piano, and there were extended 216 00:15:40,396 --> 00:15:43,716 Speaker 1: piano breaks, and it was his playing was brilliant as always, 217 00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:47,036 Speaker 1: you know, it was a really fun session. David Hungate 218 00:15:47,156 --> 00:15:53,356 Speaker 1: played guitar. A few years later, Gary Marshall asked me 219 00:15:53,436 --> 00:15:56,516 Speaker 1: to record Straighten Up and Flywright for his film Dear God, 220 00:15:57,276 --> 00:15:59,356 Speaker 1: and so I got the guys together when we recorded that. 221 00:16:00,196 --> 00:16:05,836 Speaker 1: Getting a specific request from someone else always felt gave 222 00:16:05,876 --> 00:16:09,116 Speaker 1: me permission to do a song that I would otherwise 223 00:16:09,476 --> 00:16:12,036 Speaker 1: maybe have just learned and played the edge of my 224 00:16:12,076 --> 00:16:14,596 Speaker 1: bed in my bedroom for the fun of it. Approaching 225 00:16:14,596 --> 00:16:19,436 Speaker 1: a classic where there's absolutely no reason for my version 226 00:16:19,476 --> 00:16:23,836 Speaker 1: of it to exist except that someone like Gary Marshall 227 00:16:23,996 --> 00:16:26,836 Speaker 1: or like Matt Rawlings has asked me to do it. 228 00:16:27,116 --> 00:16:30,156 Speaker 1: That's reason enough to say yes. And it's great fun 229 00:16:30,276 --> 00:16:32,956 Speaker 1: to sing a great song, to sing a standard, sing 230 00:16:32,956 --> 00:16:36,676 Speaker 1: a classic beautifully written song like that, it's like being 231 00:16:36,716 --> 00:16:39,996 Speaker 1: in the greatest garage band in the world. So we 232 00:16:40,276 --> 00:16:44,596 Speaker 1: recorded those songs then and would occasionally play them. They 233 00:16:44,716 --> 00:16:47,316 Speaker 1: became part of the set list, and in the last 234 00:16:47,356 --> 00:16:51,476 Speaker 1: few years, as a way to feature Francine Reid, who 235 00:16:51,476 --> 00:16:55,276 Speaker 1: I've started with since nineteen eighty four, we made duets 236 00:16:55,396 --> 00:16:58,916 Speaker 1: out of g Baby, Annaga, do You and Straighten Up 237 00:16:58,916 --> 00:17:02,076 Speaker 1: and Fly Right, And so we've the last few tours 238 00:17:02,076 --> 00:17:05,876 Speaker 1: we've done those live. Our versions of the songs developed 239 00:17:05,876 --> 00:17:10,556 Speaker 1: into something that seemed unique to the large band after 240 00:17:10,916 --> 00:17:13,556 Speaker 1: you know, an eight or ten year break. I wanted 241 00:17:13,556 --> 00:17:17,476 Speaker 1: this album to in a way be an overview. I 242 00:17:17,516 --> 00:17:22,196 Speaker 1: wanted it to represent the different styles that I've worked 243 00:17:22,676 --> 00:17:26,276 Speaker 1: in over the years and kind of represent the spectrum 244 00:17:26,796 --> 00:17:30,476 Speaker 1: of things that somebody might expect to hear if they 245 00:17:30,796 --> 00:17:34,636 Speaker 1: come to see me live. I thought those arrangements would 246 00:17:34,676 --> 00:17:37,556 Speaker 1: represent the large band. That's why I picked those to 247 00:17:37,636 --> 00:17:40,996 Speaker 1: be on the record. If those songs hadn't become part 248 00:17:41,196 --> 00:17:44,916 Speaker 1: of my work over the years, I probably wouldn't have 249 00:17:44,956 --> 00:17:48,636 Speaker 1: just selected the mattathin air. We're talking about your large 250 00:17:48,676 --> 00:17:51,556 Speaker 1: band songs, which is, you know, one of the buckets 251 00:17:51,636 --> 00:17:55,956 Speaker 1: of the kind of wild love it repertoire. Do you 252 00:17:55,996 --> 00:17:58,596 Speaker 1: put any of your own songs up with those songs 253 00:17:58,636 --> 00:18:01,796 Speaker 1: like Straighten Up and fly Right and G Baby? In 254 00:18:01,876 --> 00:18:04,516 Speaker 1: terms of arrangement, yes, you know. We arranged one of 255 00:18:04,556 --> 00:18:07,476 Speaker 1: my songs, pants is Overrated with the horn section and 256 00:18:07,676 --> 00:18:10,236 Speaker 1: the vocal group, So I think of that as a 257 00:18:10,356 --> 00:18:14,156 Speaker 1: large band arrangement on this album. But I didn't have 258 00:18:14,396 --> 00:18:19,876 Speaker 1: other songs that I felt would represent the band as 259 00:18:19,916 --> 00:18:23,756 Speaker 1: well to record on this record. And because we'd been 260 00:18:23,756 --> 00:18:26,276 Speaker 1: playing G Baby, Annaga do You and straight Up and 261 00:18:26,316 --> 00:18:29,916 Speaker 1: Flywright live the last couple of tours, I wanted to 262 00:18:29,956 --> 00:18:31,516 Speaker 1: be on the record so people who had heard them 263 00:18:31,556 --> 00:18:35,276 Speaker 1: live would have recordings of them. I guess I'm looking 264 00:18:35,276 --> 00:18:39,396 Speaker 1: back over your career. I'm thinking there are songs of 265 00:18:39,476 --> 00:18:44,236 Speaker 1: yours She's an a Lady, That's right, that have kind 266 00:18:44,236 --> 00:18:49,676 Speaker 1: of entered the consciousness that sort of American songbook River. Well, 267 00:18:49,756 --> 00:18:52,396 Speaker 1: that's nice to say. The idea of the large band 268 00:18:52,476 --> 00:19:02,316 Speaker 1: really came about because of one generous, supportive, consistently involved person, 269 00:19:02,716 --> 00:19:07,596 Speaker 1: Billy Williams from Phoenix, Arizona. Billy was the music director 270 00:19:08,276 --> 00:19:12,636 Speaker 1: for Javid Sloane and The Rogues. Jay David Sloane was 271 00:19:12,676 --> 00:19:15,676 Speaker 1: the lead singer and as a wonderful man and a 272 00:19:15,716 --> 00:19:18,516 Speaker 1: wonderful singer. He and Billy were about the same age. 273 00:19:18,676 --> 00:19:24,356 Speaker 1: I met them in nineteen eighty three in Luxembourg my 274 00:19:24,476 --> 00:19:27,996 Speaker 1: friend Claude Weber, who was a country music fan, and 275 00:19:28,516 --> 00:19:31,436 Speaker 1: his stage name was Buffalo Wayne. He said he named 276 00:19:31,516 --> 00:19:36,036 Speaker 1: himself after his two favorite American cowboy heroes, Buffalo Bill 277 00:19:36,076 --> 00:19:39,236 Speaker 1: and John Wayne. My friend Claude he had something to 278 00:19:39,276 --> 00:19:42,796 Speaker 1: do with the city fair in Luxembourg called the Schuber four, 279 00:19:43,756 --> 00:19:46,876 Speaker 1: and he asked me if I wanted to play between 280 00:19:47,076 --> 00:19:50,796 Speaker 1: sets of the two main bands that were playing this 281 00:19:50,876 --> 00:19:54,476 Speaker 1: American music tent at the schuberfour. One band was a 282 00:19:54,596 --> 00:19:59,076 Speaker 1: top forty cover band from Orlando that billed itself as 283 00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:01,796 Speaker 1: a Las Vegas show band, and they were called Body 284 00:20:01,876 --> 00:20:05,356 Speaker 1: and Soul. I still know some of those folks as well. 285 00:20:05,556 --> 00:20:08,956 Speaker 1: And the other band was Jay David Sloan and the Rogues, 286 00:20:09,356 --> 00:20:13,156 Speaker 1: who were the house band at the Just Most Happening 287 00:20:13,796 --> 00:20:17,156 Speaker 1: Country music nightclub in Phoenix, a place called Mister Lucky's. 288 00:20:17,156 --> 00:20:20,156 Speaker 1: For years and years they were a house band. Billy 289 00:20:20,196 --> 00:20:23,556 Speaker 1: Williams was originally from Michigan and then ended up in Phoenix. 290 00:20:23,596 --> 00:20:27,396 Speaker 1: But he would produce demos for Buddy Cannon started working 291 00:20:27,396 --> 00:20:30,476 Speaker 1: with Jay David Sloan, who he knew already, and they 292 00:20:30,516 --> 00:20:34,116 Speaker 1: would look for talented musicians in the area. And they 293 00:20:34,196 --> 00:20:39,476 Speaker 1: were the swingingest jazzist country band that I'd ever heard. 294 00:20:39,836 --> 00:20:41,956 Speaker 1: Matt Rawlings would play a solo in a country song 295 00:20:42,036 --> 00:20:44,396 Speaker 1: and I think, my goodness, I've never heard anything like 296 00:20:44,436 --> 00:20:48,396 Speaker 1: that before in my life. Meeting up with them at 297 00:20:48,396 --> 00:20:53,956 Speaker 1: the schuberfour was serendipitous, to say the least. But what 298 00:20:54,316 --> 00:20:57,556 Speaker 1: made it so important was that we were there together 299 00:20:57,676 --> 00:21:01,716 Speaker 1: for a month, playing five nights a week. My first 300 00:21:02,516 --> 00:21:06,836 Speaker 1: day there, first time I played, I could see that 301 00:21:07,436 --> 00:21:12,676 Speaker 1: my performance was unnecessary and superfluous. I played the set 302 00:21:12,756 --> 00:21:15,596 Speaker 1: change between the two bands, and I wasn't they'd even 303 00:21:15,596 --> 00:21:17,116 Speaker 1: set me up on stage. I was on the little 304 00:21:17,196 --> 00:21:19,236 Speaker 1: dance floor in front of the stage while they changed 305 00:21:19,276 --> 00:21:23,156 Speaker 1: the stage. People that came to this event because of 306 00:21:23,396 --> 00:21:26,316 Speaker 1: Jay David Sloan and the Rogues being an American country band, 307 00:21:26,716 --> 00:21:30,876 Speaker 1: you know, would come in their best cowboy stuff or 308 00:21:31,716 --> 00:21:35,636 Speaker 1: best fact similear cowboy Steff, kind of messed up hats 309 00:21:35,676 --> 00:21:40,276 Speaker 1: and cowboy clothes and some wearing wooly shafts with saddle 310 00:21:40,316 --> 00:21:42,796 Speaker 1: Oxfords instead of boots, that sort of thing. The event 311 00:21:42,956 --> 00:21:49,076 Speaker 1: was sponsored by Cargo Airline, and my friend Claude designed 312 00:21:49,196 --> 00:21:53,836 Speaker 1: a poster of a cowgirl with Cisco Kid kind of 313 00:21:54,236 --> 00:21:59,236 Speaker 1: gun belts criss crossed across her bare breasts. Didn't go 314 00:21:59,276 --> 00:22:03,996 Speaker 1: over great with Cargo Lucks. Claude was dismissed and as 315 00:22:03,996 --> 00:22:08,196 Speaker 1: a result, I was also, you know, on the bubble. 316 00:22:08,356 --> 00:22:11,596 Speaker 1: Claude spoke for me and they kept me on the gig. 317 00:22:11,876 --> 00:22:14,236 Speaker 1: My pay at that point had been a one way 318 00:22:14,316 --> 00:22:19,116 Speaker 1: ticket to Luxembourg. I went to Jay David Sloan and 319 00:22:19,156 --> 00:22:21,436 Speaker 1: to Billy Williams and I said, yeah, I'm a little 320 00:22:21,476 --> 00:22:23,956 Speaker 1: worried about this, you know, I really I'm playing this 321 00:22:23,956 --> 00:22:27,596 Speaker 1: gig for airfare and I'm a little worried that i 322 00:22:27,676 --> 00:22:30,876 Speaker 1: might not get my return ticket and that would be 323 00:22:30,916 --> 00:22:33,916 Speaker 1: important to me. And they said, we'll learn some of 324 00:22:33,916 --> 00:22:37,516 Speaker 1: your songs, and why don't you sit in with us 325 00:22:37,636 --> 00:22:41,956 Speaker 1: during our sets every night, and you know that way 326 00:22:42,756 --> 00:22:44,356 Speaker 1: you will have worked and they'll have to pay you. 327 00:22:45,476 --> 00:22:49,596 Speaker 1: So that's what we did. Jay and Billy negotiated my 328 00:22:49,876 --> 00:22:51,996 Speaker 1: ticket home and at the end of that month they said, 329 00:22:52,316 --> 00:22:54,196 Speaker 1: if you ever want to do any recording, come out 330 00:22:54,196 --> 00:22:56,716 Speaker 1: here to Phoenix and we'll give you the first day 331 00:22:56,716 --> 00:23:00,636 Speaker 1: in the studio for free. And so in early June 332 00:23:01,596 --> 00:23:05,756 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty four, I called Billy and I said, Hey, 333 00:23:05,756 --> 00:23:08,116 Speaker 1: it's your offer still good? Can I come out? And 334 00:23:08,156 --> 00:23:11,116 Speaker 1: he said, sure, coming out. He booked us time at 335 00:23:11,156 --> 00:23:15,436 Speaker 1: a really nice little studio in Scott's Dalely, Arizona, in 336 00:23:15,476 --> 00:23:19,196 Speaker 1: the backyard of Ed and Marie Ravenscroft. They called their 337 00:23:19,196 --> 00:23:25,676 Speaker 1: place Chatan Recordings, and an engineer named Steve Moore recorded 338 00:23:25,756 --> 00:23:30,196 Speaker 1: us to twenty four track analog two inch tape, and 339 00:23:30,276 --> 00:23:34,916 Speaker 1: we recorded four songs that first day, complete with harmony 340 00:23:34,996 --> 00:23:40,796 Speaker 1: vocals and Billy overdubbing solos with his guitars less Paul 341 00:23:40,836 --> 00:23:45,516 Speaker 1: plugs straight into the board. And those four songs were 342 00:23:46,476 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 1: the first four songs that I took with me on 343 00:23:50,436 --> 00:23:52,516 Speaker 1: my first trip to Nashville. A couple of weeks later, 344 00:23:53,076 --> 00:23:57,356 Speaker 1: Well what are those songs? They were if I were 345 00:23:57,396 --> 00:24:03,116 Speaker 1: the man you wanted, Cowboy Man, closing Time and give 346 00:24:03,156 --> 00:24:06,396 Speaker 1: Back My Heart, Well, those are some pretty good songs. Well, 347 00:24:06,396 --> 00:24:10,956 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. And recording with that band was 348 00:24:11,636 --> 00:24:14,276 Speaker 1: just a revelation to me. I loved their playing, and 349 00:24:14,316 --> 00:24:18,556 Speaker 1: I loved their take on well just their feel, and 350 00:24:18,796 --> 00:24:21,356 Speaker 1: I was just grateful that they would let me play 351 00:24:21,396 --> 00:24:23,996 Speaker 1: with him. We'll be right back with more from Bruce 352 00:24:24,076 --> 00:24:26,556 Speaker 1: Headlam and Lou Love It after quick Break, but before 353 00:24:26,596 --> 00:24:29,796 Speaker 1: we go enjoyed Love It's live performance of one of 354 00:24:29,836 --> 00:24:46,396 Speaker 1: his greatest hits. If I had a boat, if I 355 00:24:46,756 --> 00:24:51,756 Speaker 1: had able, I'd got out on the ocean, and if 356 00:24:51,836 --> 00:24:55,876 Speaker 1: I had a bony, I'd ride him on my book, 357 00:24:56,916 --> 00:25:00,716 Speaker 1: and we good all together and go out hut on 358 00:25:00,876 --> 00:25:06,236 Speaker 1: the ocean, I said me, upon my bony on my book. 359 00:25:08,396 --> 00:25:12,916 Speaker 1: If I will Roy Rogers, I shall enough this angle. 360 00:25:13,476 --> 00:25:17,556 Speaker 1: I couldn't bring myself to marry in the old day. 361 00:25:19,436 --> 00:25:23,316 Speaker 1: Let just be me intured. We go right and do 362 00:25:23,636 --> 00:25:27,476 Speaker 1: them movies. Then we buy a boat and on to 363 00:25:27,676 --> 00:25:32,956 Speaker 1: see leeds to see it. And if I had a boat, 364 00:25:33,996 --> 00:25:37,836 Speaker 1: I go out on the ocean, and if I had 365 00:25:37,876 --> 00:25:42,796 Speaker 1: a pony, I'd ride him on my boat, and we 366 00:25:42,996 --> 00:25:47,876 Speaker 1: good all together, go out put on the ocean. I 367 00:25:47,996 --> 00:25:53,756 Speaker 1: setting me up on my pony on my boot. But 368 00:25:53,916 --> 00:25:59,076 Speaker 1: now the mysterymaged man was smart. He got himself Badanto. 369 00:25:59,956 --> 00:26:07,996 Speaker 1: Cassanto did the dirty work for Breath. Badanto. He was smarted, 370 00:26:08,516 --> 00:26:13,916 Speaker 1: and one had beamis ibby because my eyes. I bought 371 00:26:13,996 --> 00:26:18,476 Speaker 1: a book. I'm pulling out to see. And if I 372 00:26:18,836 --> 00:26:23,716 Speaker 1: had a book, I go out on the ocean. And 373 00:26:23,916 --> 00:26:28,316 Speaker 1: if I had a pony, I'd rightly won my pool 374 00:26:29,396 --> 00:26:34,156 Speaker 1: and we good all agether, go out hut on the ocean. 375 00:26:34,756 --> 00:26:38,996 Speaker 1: I send me up on my pony on my book. 376 00:26:55,796 --> 00:26:59,436 Speaker 1: And if I were like a lightning, I wouldn't need 377 00:26:59,756 --> 00:27:05,356 Speaker 1: those stingers. Would I come in go whenever I would please? 378 00:27:07,076 --> 00:27:10,996 Speaker 1: And I scare remand the shame dree and I'm scaring 379 00:27:11,156 --> 00:27:15,316 Speaker 1: by the light boot. But when I scared my pony 380 00:27:15,836 --> 00:27:20,476 Speaker 1: on my boot out on see. But if I had 381 00:27:20,556 --> 00:27:25,476 Speaker 1: a book, I'd go out on the ocean. And if 382 00:27:25,596 --> 00:27:30,876 Speaker 1: I had a pony, I ride on my boat and 383 00:27:31,076 --> 00:27:35,676 Speaker 1: we good all the day, go out put on the ocean. 384 00:27:36,316 --> 00:27:40,676 Speaker 1: I setting me up on my pony on my boat. 385 00:27:42,396 --> 00:28:08,556 Speaker 1: I setting me upon my oy on my boot. We're 386 00:28:08,636 --> 00:28:11,476 Speaker 1: back to the us of Bruce's conversation with Lyle love It, 387 00:28:12,156 --> 00:28:14,436 Speaker 1: starting with how love It got his start in the 388 00:28:14,556 --> 00:28:21,276 Speaker 1: music business. My dad's boss in nineteen eighty four was 389 00:28:21,316 --> 00:28:24,716 Speaker 1: a man named mister Bress. Joe Bress and his son 390 00:28:25,476 --> 00:28:27,796 Speaker 1: liked the idea of being in the music business. So 391 00:28:28,036 --> 00:28:32,356 Speaker 1: he went to school at Middle Tennessee State University in Murphysboro, 392 00:28:32,476 --> 00:28:36,116 Speaker 1: Tennessee to really get into the business. Dad knew that 393 00:28:36,436 --> 00:28:39,036 Speaker 1: and talked to him, mister Bress, and we called his 394 00:28:39,116 --> 00:28:42,076 Speaker 1: son Bow and both said, hey, I'll make some calls 395 00:28:42,116 --> 00:28:44,356 Speaker 1: for you. He said, are you affiliated with you performing 396 00:28:44,436 --> 00:28:48,316 Speaker 1: rights organizations? And I said, well, I've joined ASCAP six 397 00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:50,556 Speaker 1: years ago or so when i started copywriting my songs. 398 00:28:50,596 --> 00:28:52,556 Speaker 1: I joined as I'm a member of ASKAT. He said, well, 399 00:28:52,836 --> 00:28:55,236 Speaker 1: he said, let me call ASCAP for you, set you 400 00:28:55,356 --> 00:28:57,956 Speaker 1: up a meeting with a membership rep. And I said, 401 00:28:57,956 --> 00:28:59,356 Speaker 1: do you think they do it? He said, well, that's 402 00:28:59,396 --> 00:29:01,876 Speaker 1: what they do. It's their job to talk to their songwriters. 403 00:29:02,316 --> 00:29:05,076 Speaker 1: That was my first meeting with a man named Merlin Littlefield. 404 00:29:05,716 --> 00:29:11,116 Speaker 1: He was just enthusiasm, soonified and started making calls from 405 00:29:11,116 --> 00:29:12,916 Speaker 1: me and set up meetings for me all over town 406 00:29:12,996 --> 00:29:16,556 Speaker 1: that week. And Jim Rooney, if you know about Jim, 407 00:29:17,356 --> 00:29:22,036 Speaker 1: is just an amazing, incredible human being on the planet. 408 00:29:22,276 --> 00:29:25,316 Speaker 1: I think he's eighty two now lives up in Vermont, 409 00:29:25,356 --> 00:29:28,396 Speaker 1: but he was part of the whole Cambridge folks scene 410 00:29:28,396 --> 00:29:31,316 Speaker 1: and part of the new York folks scene in those days. 411 00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:34,436 Speaker 1: Used to play music with Bill Keith. He's, you know, 412 00:29:34,516 --> 00:29:37,436 Speaker 1: written books and I mean he's you know, deep and 413 00:29:37,756 --> 00:29:41,196 Speaker 1: just you know, makes the world a better place. He 414 00:29:41,276 --> 00:29:43,876 Speaker 1: would let me sleep on his couch when I'd come 415 00:29:43,876 --> 00:29:45,716 Speaker 1: to Nashville, you know, in those days, I'd go to 416 00:29:45,836 --> 00:29:50,116 Speaker 1: Nashville every four to five to six weeks and make 417 00:29:50,196 --> 00:29:52,516 Speaker 1: the rounds again. He'd say, yeah, if you need a 418 00:29:52,556 --> 00:29:55,036 Speaker 1: place to say, come over here, and so I took 419 00:29:55,116 --> 00:29:58,556 Speaker 1: him up on that occasionally. He was emotionally supportive and 420 00:29:59,116 --> 00:30:02,636 Speaker 1: saved me some money. Were you writing songs? Always try 421 00:30:02,716 --> 00:30:05,836 Speaker 1: to be working on something. Was still playing the same 422 00:30:06,356 --> 00:30:09,516 Speaker 1: eight places once every couple of months. That's sort of 423 00:30:09,556 --> 00:30:11,956 Speaker 1: my usual rotation. Not making enough money to make a 424 00:30:12,076 --> 00:30:15,716 Speaker 1: legitimate living as an adult, and so I was living 425 00:30:15,876 --> 00:30:19,196 Speaker 1: back at home, you know, in my room with my parents' house. 426 00:30:19,756 --> 00:30:24,236 Speaker 1: Jim Rooney helped me and ultimately took me over. He said, 427 00:30:24,276 --> 00:30:25,996 Speaker 1: you know, he said, have you met any of the 428 00:30:25,996 --> 00:30:28,996 Speaker 1: folks over at Criterion Music? I said, no, I haven't, 429 00:30:29,076 --> 00:30:35,156 Speaker 1: and he took me to Criterion's Nashville office on seventeenth Avenue. 430 00:30:35,796 --> 00:30:37,676 Speaker 1: That the guy that was running his name was Ted 431 00:30:38,476 --> 00:30:43,076 Speaker 1: Criterion shared an office with Rodney Crow and Rosanne Cash, 432 00:30:43,956 --> 00:30:47,876 Speaker 1: and I met Rodney and Rosanne at that same same meeting, 433 00:30:48,076 --> 00:30:51,756 Speaker 1: and I was thrilled, you know, to meet them. Ted 434 00:30:51,876 --> 00:30:54,276 Speaker 1: listened to my tape and he said, well, sent, He said, 435 00:30:54,276 --> 00:30:57,156 Speaker 1: our headquarters out in Los Angeles. I'll send it out 436 00:30:57,196 --> 00:30:58,716 Speaker 1: there to them. And I thanked him and that was 437 00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:01,236 Speaker 1: it and didn't hear anything from him. That was in 438 00:31:01,356 --> 00:31:05,516 Speaker 1: February of nineteen eighty five. In July nineteen eighty five, 439 00:31:06,596 --> 00:31:11,196 Speaker 1: I got a phone call and the person said, it's 440 00:31:11,196 --> 00:31:14,516 Speaker 1: a bow Golson from Criterion Music. Ted and Nashville just 441 00:31:14,556 --> 00:31:17,316 Speaker 1: sent me your tape and I just listened to it. 442 00:31:18,116 --> 00:31:20,716 Speaker 1: Would you like a publishing deal like that? Now? Every 443 00:31:20,796 --> 00:31:24,156 Speaker 1: publisher I had talked to up to that point was 444 00:31:24,356 --> 00:31:28,596 Speaker 1: encouraging to me, but no one had said, would you 445 00:31:28,676 --> 00:31:30,556 Speaker 1: like a publishing deal? Would you like to write for us? 446 00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:35,076 Speaker 1: People said things like, gosh, you know, I like this personally, 447 00:31:35,156 --> 00:31:36,636 Speaker 1: but I just don't know what we'd do with it. 448 00:31:36,916 --> 00:31:40,916 Speaker 1: Nobody expressed any kind of commitment until bow Golson and 449 00:31:41,156 --> 00:31:44,676 Speaker 1: Bo said that in the you before I even said 450 00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:48,636 Speaker 1: hello back, and he and he added, if you signed 451 00:31:48,716 --> 00:31:51,956 Speaker 1: with us, I think we have a record deal for you, 452 00:31:52,396 --> 00:31:55,236 Speaker 1: And I said, really, I said with who? He said, 453 00:31:55,516 --> 00:31:59,396 Speaker 1: signed with us, and I'll tell you. So he invited 454 00:31:59,436 --> 00:32:01,596 Speaker 1: me to come out to Los Angeles to see their 455 00:32:01,636 --> 00:32:04,036 Speaker 1: offices out there and to meet him. I went, and 456 00:32:04,596 --> 00:32:08,756 Speaker 1: he couldn't have been nicer. And they had an incredible catalog. 457 00:32:08,836 --> 00:32:13,076 Speaker 1: I mean, they owned all of Charlie Parker's stuff. Lee 458 00:32:13,156 --> 00:32:16,356 Speaker 1: Hazelwood was one of their writers. Rodney Kroll had been 459 00:32:16,476 --> 00:32:18,476 Speaker 1: one of their writers, so Tom Kimmel was one of 460 00:32:18,556 --> 00:32:21,956 Speaker 1: their writers. I just couldn't believe the titles that they 461 00:32:22,036 --> 00:32:25,436 Speaker 1: had at that point. Did you still think you were 462 00:32:25,476 --> 00:32:27,276 Speaker 1: going to be a performer or did you want to 463 00:32:27,396 --> 00:32:30,996 Speaker 1: write for other people? I enjoyed performing and I had 464 00:32:31,076 --> 00:32:35,236 Speaker 1: no intention of stopping performing. But I didn't have any 465 00:32:35,356 --> 00:32:39,356 Speaker 1: expectation of performing beyond the gigs that I was already doing, 466 00:32:39,556 --> 00:32:43,196 Speaker 1: you know, playing to places that held seventy five or 467 00:32:43,196 --> 00:32:46,156 Speaker 1: a hundred people. Now, before you did that, you were 468 00:32:46,196 --> 00:32:49,876 Speaker 1: at Texas A and M. That's true, and you met 469 00:32:50,236 --> 00:32:54,596 Speaker 1: a lot of your songwriting heroes writing for the paper there. 470 00:32:55,316 --> 00:32:57,836 Speaker 1: I did, were you really interviewing them? Were you just 471 00:32:57,956 --> 00:33:00,636 Speaker 1: hitting them up for ideas? I started playing out when 472 00:33:00,636 --> 00:33:03,076 Speaker 1: I was eighteen, So by the time I got into 473 00:33:03,156 --> 00:33:08,676 Speaker 1: the School of Journalism, my main focus was performing. I 474 00:33:08,796 --> 00:33:14,076 Speaker 1: didn't think performing was a realistic expectation for my life. 475 00:33:14,956 --> 00:33:18,876 Speaker 1: Going to school was important to me because it was 476 00:33:18,956 --> 00:33:23,236 Speaker 1: important to my parents. I've always been close to my 477 00:33:23,396 --> 00:33:28,596 Speaker 1: parents and have always in any situation I've ever been in, 478 00:33:29,556 --> 00:33:33,476 Speaker 1: if my parents would show up, I would always feel better. 479 00:33:34,836 --> 00:33:37,956 Speaker 1: That's how supportive they always were. They were giving me 480 00:33:38,076 --> 00:33:40,476 Speaker 1: the chance to do things they didn't get to do. 481 00:33:41,036 --> 00:33:44,916 Speaker 1: That all seemed clear to me. You know. Halfway through, 482 00:33:45,036 --> 00:33:47,676 Speaker 1: when I'd gotten my prerecorsites out of the way, I 483 00:33:48,076 --> 00:33:50,116 Speaker 1: stopped thinking about, well, what do I want to study. 484 00:33:50,516 --> 00:33:53,436 Speaker 1: I want a degree in, and I started thinking what 485 00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:56,156 Speaker 1: can I get a degree in? And I'd always done 486 00:33:56,636 --> 00:33:58,836 Speaker 1: well on papers, so I thought, let me just check 487 00:33:58,916 --> 00:34:02,356 Speaker 1: into this. And when I got to the College of Journalism, 488 00:34:02,396 --> 00:34:05,916 Speaker 1: when I went and met professors there and looked around 489 00:34:06,156 --> 00:34:10,596 Speaker 1: and saw the students working at our daily paper, the Battalion, 490 00:34:11,116 --> 00:34:14,916 Speaker 1: they were as as interested in writing and in getting 491 00:34:14,956 --> 00:34:18,876 Speaker 1: that paper out and publishing as I was in booking 492 00:34:18,956 --> 00:34:22,636 Speaker 1: my next gig. It was an electric atmosphere and I 493 00:34:22,716 --> 00:34:25,876 Speaker 1: was drawn to it immediately. I was on the city desk. 494 00:34:26,596 --> 00:34:30,556 Speaker 1: I went to every city council meeting for a year 495 00:34:30,596 --> 00:34:34,076 Speaker 1: and a half and enjoyed learning about the local politics, 496 00:34:34,236 --> 00:34:37,316 Speaker 1: enjoyed getting to know the councilman. But entertainment stories we 497 00:34:37,356 --> 00:34:40,196 Speaker 1: would kind of draw straws for the entertainment stories were 498 00:34:40,236 --> 00:34:42,116 Speaker 1: fun to do, you know, to be able to talk 499 00:34:42,156 --> 00:34:45,316 Speaker 1: to two artists. I always put my name in the 500 00:34:45,436 --> 00:34:49,716 Speaker 1: hat for the kinds of performers that I like to 501 00:34:49,796 --> 00:34:52,596 Speaker 1: go and hear and often got to write about them. 502 00:34:53,436 --> 00:34:56,956 Speaker 1: I mean it was certainly personally enriching, and I was 503 00:34:57,236 --> 00:34:59,836 Speaker 1: I was just honored and excited to be in the 504 00:34:59,916 --> 00:35:02,116 Speaker 1: room talking to somebody I was a fan of. But 505 00:35:02,676 --> 00:35:06,276 Speaker 1: my objective in writing those stories was to, you know, 506 00:35:06,356 --> 00:35:10,436 Speaker 1: to spread the gospel of Nancy Griffith, of Eric Taylor, 507 00:35:10,516 --> 00:35:16,556 Speaker 1: of Don Sanders, of Stephen Fromhol's Michael Martin Murphy. And 508 00:35:17,036 --> 00:35:20,196 Speaker 1: although Murphy was really well known and it was a 509 00:35:20,236 --> 00:35:22,356 Speaker 1: big hit in those days, he did a concert in 510 00:35:23,516 --> 00:35:26,236 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five at Texas and m that I attended 511 00:35:26,316 --> 00:35:31,516 Speaker 1: that was just pivotal in my growing up because he 512 00:35:31,676 --> 00:35:34,116 Speaker 1: had a number one pop hit on the radio at 513 00:35:34,156 --> 00:35:37,916 Speaker 1: that time wildfire, I mean pop hit, and there he 514 00:35:38,076 --> 00:35:40,636 Speaker 1: was filled up the basketball arena and he did a 515 00:35:40,676 --> 00:35:44,556 Speaker 1: two hour show, the first hour of which was him 516 00:35:44,636 --> 00:35:49,036 Speaker 1: and his guitar, and he had, you know, seven thousand 517 00:35:49,076 --> 00:35:53,756 Speaker 1: people at Gee Riley White Coliseum. Just made it seem 518 00:35:53,836 --> 00:35:56,836 Speaker 1: like he was in a room of a hundred people. 519 00:35:56,956 --> 00:36:00,996 Speaker 1: It was so quiet and such an intimate performance. And 520 00:36:01,156 --> 00:36:03,596 Speaker 1: I saw the power of that, and I just thought, 521 00:36:03,716 --> 00:36:07,596 Speaker 1: wouldn't that be amazing to do something like that? And 522 00:36:07,876 --> 00:36:11,556 Speaker 1: when had you started playing guitar. I'm embarrassed to admit this, 523 00:36:11,716 --> 00:36:14,876 Speaker 1: but I've started taking guitar lessons in second grade. I'm 524 00:36:14,916 --> 00:36:17,556 Speaker 1: not a guitar player. I play well enough to accompany 525 00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:19,596 Speaker 1: my songs, but nobody would hire me to play guitar 526 00:36:19,676 --> 00:36:22,796 Speaker 1: in their band, you know. But I always loved playing. 527 00:36:23,316 --> 00:36:27,236 Speaker 1: And my guitar teacher in those days was a man 528 00:36:27,316 --> 00:36:29,676 Speaker 1: named Chuck Woods who was a session player around Houston. 529 00:36:30,116 --> 00:36:34,076 Speaker 1: Our lessons were exercises and enjoyment. Really. He taught me 530 00:36:34,156 --> 00:36:38,676 Speaker 1: to read treble Cleff taught me to count. Sometimes I 531 00:36:38,716 --> 00:36:41,036 Speaker 1: would practice a little bit during the week, and other 532 00:36:41,076 --> 00:36:43,356 Speaker 1: times I wouldn't practice at all, but I always looked 533 00:36:43,396 --> 00:36:47,556 Speaker 1: forward to that that Monday night and later Thursday night 534 00:36:47,836 --> 00:36:52,236 Speaker 1: lessons with him guitar with something in my life that 535 00:36:53,396 --> 00:36:56,236 Speaker 1: it was just just always a positive. It was always 536 00:36:56,276 --> 00:36:58,956 Speaker 1: something that I enjoyed. I don't feel like I'm really 537 00:36:58,996 --> 00:37:01,396 Speaker 1: a competitive kind of person, so I didn't really have 538 00:37:01,516 --> 00:37:04,436 Speaker 1: any kind of you know, anybody to play guitar with 539 00:37:04,636 --> 00:37:09,436 Speaker 1: in school? Did he teach you fingerpicking a little bit? 540 00:37:09,596 --> 00:37:14,076 Speaker 1: But my fingerpicking came from in my high school years. 541 00:37:14,156 --> 00:37:17,236 Speaker 1: I took lessons at H and H Music Company on 542 00:37:17,436 --> 00:37:22,396 Speaker 1: Caroline Street in downtown Houston. My buddy Bruce Lyon, who 543 00:37:22,516 --> 00:37:26,076 Speaker 1: was a year older than I in high school and 544 00:37:26,196 --> 00:37:29,436 Speaker 1: had his driver's license a year ahead of me. He 545 00:37:29,516 --> 00:37:32,076 Speaker 1: would drive us in those days, totar a lesson and 546 00:37:32,476 --> 00:37:35,276 Speaker 1: Freddie was his teacher. That's how I met Freddie. Freddie 547 00:37:35,276 --> 00:37:37,876 Speaker 1: was a graduate student at University of Houston. He had 548 00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:44,796 Speaker 1: this gorgeous read Gibson ES three fifty five stereo guitar 549 00:37:45,756 --> 00:37:49,516 Speaker 1: and they played through a Fender amp and Freddie loved 550 00:37:50,196 --> 00:37:55,356 Speaker 1: chet atkins. We learned chet arrangements of songs. He taught 551 00:37:55,396 --> 00:37:58,836 Speaker 1: me how to alternate my thumb, so I owe that 552 00:37:58,956 --> 00:38:03,116 Speaker 1: to Fred Foss. And then listening to Texas singer songwriters 553 00:38:03,236 --> 00:38:07,036 Speaker 1: like Murphy. If you listen to Murphy's first album, in 554 00:38:07,156 --> 00:38:10,276 Speaker 1: particular with a song like Boyfriend the Country, it's all 555 00:38:10,356 --> 00:38:14,756 Speaker 1: about alternating that thumb. I asked, because there's something very 556 00:38:14,836 --> 00:38:20,276 Speaker 1: distinctive about your finger picking on some songs. I must 557 00:38:20,316 --> 00:38:22,036 Speaker 1: not be the only one who thinks this, because if 558 00:38:22,076 --> 00:38:25,076 Speaker 1: you go on YouTube, there are about a thousand instructional 559 00:38:25,156 --> 00:38:27,916 Speaker 1: videos to play If I Had a Boat to me, 560 00:38:27,996 --> 00:38:30,116 Speaker 1: it's very snipped. A skinny Legs is another one that 561 00:38:30,236 --> 00:38:34,116 Speaker 1: has that sound. You know, typically with fingerpicking, you know, 562 00:38:34,196 --> 00:38:36,796 Speaker 1: people get the bass going and then they add a 563 00:38:36,836 --> 00:38:39,876 Speaker 1: little right off the top. Particularly on If I Had 564 00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:42,876 Speaker 1: a Boat, it's full of notes. You've got like sixteen 565 00:38:43,036 --> 00:38:45,396 Speaker 1: notes right at the top of that, and not many 566 00:38:45,436 --> 00:38:48,196 Speaker 1: people play that way. It's very it's very distinctive. Well, 567 00:38:48,276 --> 00:38:52,036 Speaker 1: thank you. It's not unique and it's not even that unusual. 568 00:38:52,636 --> 00:38:54,876 Speaker 1: John Hyatt and I are friends and have worked together 569 00:38:55,036 --> 00:38:58,316 Speaker 1: for years doing songs, swap kinds of shows, and sometimes 570 00:38:58,396 --> 00:39:00,276 Speaker 1: John will throw in one of those forward roles just 571 00:39:00,396 --> 00:39:02,836 Speaker 1: to go, hey, I'm Auntie, I know what you're doing. 572 00:39:03,036 --> 00:39:05,956 Speaker 1: And one of his songs which he gives he'll give 573 00:39:05,996 --> 00:39:10,556 Speaker 1: me a grind. But that style alternating bass, that style 574 00:39:10,596 --> 00:39:18,796 Speaker 1: of fingerpicking was prevalent among songwriters I would hear around Houston, 575 00:39:18,996 --> 00:39:22,036 Speaker 1: like Eric Taylor, like Nancy Griffith, like Don Sanders, like 576 00:39:22,316 --> 00:39:25,476 Speaker 1: Vince Bill. Because the performers I was drawn to were 577 00:39:25,516 --> 00:39:28,916 Speaker 1: playing original music clubs and they're usually laying solo, that 578 00:39:29,156 --> 00:39:34,076 Speaker 1: kind of fingerpicking, that those kinds of arrangements were a 579 00:39:34,236 --> 00:39:39,356 Speaker 1: way to to have kind of a complete accompaniment, you know, 580 00:39:39,436 --> 00:39:41,876 Speaker 1: without having to have a band. You know, there was 581 00:39:41,956 --> 00:39:45,436 Speaker 1: something complete about that style of playing to my ear 582 00:39:45,476 --> 00:39:47,836 Speaker 1: as I saw other people do it, That's why I 583 00:39:47,956 --> 00:39:50,756 Speaker 1: did it. You know, you can express the song with 584 00:39:50,996 --> 00:39:54,316 Speaker 1: just your guitar, but now you're playing. It's a little 585 00:39:54,356 --> 00:39:58,156 Speaker 1: bit like your singing in a way. When I listened 586 00:39:58,156 --> 00:40:00,156 Speaker 1: to you, you're very forward in the pocket the way 587 00:40:00,196 --> 00:40:03,076 Speaker 1: you sing. Even when you sing blues gut you know, 588 00:40:03,156 --> 00:40:06,036 Speaker 1: my baby, don't tolerate it's it's this big bluesy album 589 00:40:06,076 --> 00:40:08,956 Speaker 1: of yours, but you're very at the top of each bar. 590 00:40:09,196 --> 00:40:12,356 Speaker 1: I think, do you think? I think maybe because I 591 00:40:12,516 --> 00:40:15,076 Speaker 1: worry about laying it back too much, I do think 592 00:40:15,116 --> 00:40:18,076 Speaker 1: about that. I do you find that in the in 593 00:40:18,196 --> 00:40:20,916 Speaker 1: the towards the end of the phrases. Sometimes I'll try 594 00:40:20,956 --> 00:40:22,876 Speaker 1: I try not to lay it back too much. We're 595 00:40:22,876 --> 00:40:25,036 Speaker 1: talking to Paul Simon. You know, he talked about when 596 00:40:25,076 --> 00:40:28,956 Speaker 1: he was singing with Garfunkel, everything was very upfront, and 597 00:40:30,356 --> 00:40:32,436 Speaker 1: when he became a solo arts and he really had 598 00:40:32,476 --> 00:40:36,316 Speaker 1: to rethink, he found himself moving further and further back 599 00:40:36,356 --> 00:40:39,116 Speaker 1: in the pocket. And you know he's got that now. 600 00:40:39,796 --> 00:40:42,116 Speaker 1: I've had the good fortune of being around Paul Simon 601 00:40:42,156 --> 00:40:44,076 Speaker 1: a few times. You know, I wouldn't say we're you know, 602 00:40:44,116 --> 00:40:45,756 Speaker 1: I know, I know him well, but I've gotten to 603 00:40:45,836 --> 00:40:49,436 Speaker 1: be part of some special events with him, and I 604 00:40:49,556 --> 00:40:56,756 Speaker 1: know Edie and he's such a lovely, you know, brilliant person. Gosh, 605 00:40:57,196 --> 00:41:00,516 Speaker 1: you know what a wonderful combination of feeling and thinking 606 00:41:00,836 --> 00:41:05,596 Speaker 1: the impact of his music feels purely emotional. But then 607 00:41:05,676 --> 00:41:09,036 Speaker 1: you know it's all thought out. I mean, there's not 608 00:41:09,316 --> 00:41:15,156 Speaker 1: a word or a note that hasn't been considered. There's 609 00:41:15,196 --> 00:41:18,836 Speaker 1: so much going on in those songs. Two beautiful albums 610 00:41:18,876 --> 00:41:21,116 Speaker 1: to listen to. Amen Back in the old days, you know, 611 00:41:21,716 --> 00:41:25,516 Speaker 1: and I made my first demos and really only my 612 00:41:25,836 --> 00:41:28,916 Speaker 1: first record that we mix on an analog board. But 613 00:41:29,156 --> 00:41:32,516 Speaker 1: mixes were as much of a performance as tracking was. 614 00:41:32,756 --> 00:41:35,516 Speaker 1: Sometimes you'd have three or four people on a board 615 00:41:35,916 --> 00:41:38,956 Speaker 1: making their moves at the right time. And the question 616 00:41:39,196 --> 00:41:40,836 Speaker 1: at the end of a mix wasn't well, show we 617 00:41:40,916 --> 00:41:43,436 Speaker 1: mix it again? It was always well you think we 618 00:41:43,476 --> 00:41:45,756 Speaker 1: can beat that one? I mean it was a performance. Well, 619 00:41:45,796 --> 00:41:48,276 Speaker 1: now I'm mixing. Isn't like that? Because everything's automated, You 620 00:41:48,356 --> 00:41:50,876 Speaker 1: can recall mixes ten back if you want to, and 621 00:41:50,956 --> 00:41:52,316 Speaker 1: go back to something if you feel like if you've 622 00:41:52,316 --> 00:41:55,476 Speaker 1: gotten away from what was good. The ability to be 623 00:41:55,676 --> 00:42:02,476 Speaker 1: detailed is endless, and artists like Paul Simon are they 624 00:42:02,596 --> 00:42:09,436 Speaker 1: realize everything is important. Every sound has an impact. How 625 00:42:09,596 --> 00:42:13,476 Speaker 1: detailed are you in the studio? I'm detailed? My mom 626 00:42:13,956 --> 00:42:16,436 Speaker 1: her last secret Joe's job was in the publications department 627 00:42:16,556 --> 00:42:19,076 Speaker 1: at X which which is really part of the reason 628 00:42:19,156 --> 00:42:22,156 Speaker 1: that I was interested in journalism. The publications department would 629 00:42:22,156 --> 00:42:25,716 Speaker 1: allow my mom to check out cameras. Ended up writing 630 00:42:25,756 --> 00:42:32,196 Speaker 1: for Local Motorcycle publication. The art director for Xon Publications 631 00:42:32,356 --> 00:42:36,796 Speaker 1: is a really sweet man named Richard Paint. He agreed. 632 00:42:36,996 --> 00:42:40,436 Speaker 1: I asked him if he would paint a helmet for me, 633 00:42:41,596 --> 00:42:44,956 Speaker 1: because all the you know, how you looked was almost 634 00:42:44,996 --> 00:42:47,596 Speaker 1: as important as how fast you went. He drew up 635 00:42:47,876 --> 00:42:52,236 Speaker 1: several designs which I rejected, and then finally he came 636 00:42:52,316 --> 00:42:55,516 Speaker 1: with the design that I liked, and he scrawled a 637 00:42:55,636 --> 00:42:59,916 Speaker 1: note across his drawing of it, and he said, Burnell, 638 00:43:00,076 --> 00:43:03,716 Speaker 1: that's my mom's name, Burnell. See if this does anything 639 00:43:03,836 --> 00:43:06,316 Speaker 1: for that piggy kid. Now I was thirteen, you know 640 00:43:06,476 --> 00:43:10,196 Speaker 1: I'm thirteen. I have that framed in my office. You know, 641 00:43:10,276 --> 00:43:12,476 Speaker 1: I've been accused of being I don't think I'm picky. 642 00:43:12,996 --> 00:43:15,516 Speaker 1: I just want to get things the way they sound 643 00:43:15,596 --> 00:43:18,676 Speaker 1: good to me. But you know, I've been fortunate to 644 00:43:18,796 --> 00:43:23,916 Speaker 1: work with generous people in my life that tolerate my 645 00:43:24,076 --> 00:43:27,276 Speaker 1: preferences and help me, you know, ultimately, just help me 646 00:43:27,996 --> 00:43:31,756 Speaker 1: get something to where I like it. Tony Brown, Billy 647 00:43:31,836 --> 00:43:36,116 Speaker 1: Williams and Chuck Anley, who engineered the Large Band record, 648 00:43:36,196 --> 00:43:40,916 Speaker 1: and George Massenberg, Nathaniel Kuncle, who I met together in 649 00:43:41,316 --> 00:43:43,836 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one to record Joshua Joe's Ruth and then 650 00:43:43,956 --> 00:43:48,396 Speaker 1: recorded everything since that with Nathaniel Kuncle. Before we get 651 00:43:48,436 --> 00:43:53,516 Speaker 1: off the subject of that great wave of Texas songwriters, 652 00:43:54,236 --> 00:43:55,756 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you more about how they 653 00:43:55,836 --> 00:43:57,676 Speaker 1: influenced you. I do want to ask you about one, 654 00:43:57,716 --> 00:44:03,236 Speaker 1: and that's willis Allan Ramsay who's this sort of singular figure, 655 00:44:03,876 --> 00:44:05,556 Speaker 1: maybe because he put out one album, But can you 656 00:44:05,636 --> 00:44:08,556 Speaker 1: tell me a bit about about him and your relationship 657 00:44:08,596 --> 00:44:12,796 Speaker 1: with him. I've discovered his first record through my friend 658 00:44:12,876 --> 00:44:19,036 Speaker 1: Bruce lyon gosh it was nineteen seventy four, and bought 659 00:44:19,076 --> 00:44:22,076 Speaker 1: it and just you know, immediately started trying to learn 660 00:44:22,436 --> 00:44:26,156 Speaker 1: every song on it. The thing that really drew me 661 00:44:26,236 --> 00:44:32,316 Speaker 1: into Willis, besides his melody and use of language, was 662 00:44:32,796 --> 00:44:37,156 Speaker 1: his blues influence. All of those songs, you hear blues 663 00:44:37,316 --> 00:44:40,316 Speaker 1: in all of them, and I loved his voice, and 664 00:44:40,516 --> 00:44:44,236 Speaker 1: I just thought, gosh, this is amazing. I mean, this 665 00:44:44,436 --> 00:44:49,916 Speaker 1: is old blues and new music. Could you just a 666 00:44:50,036 --> 00:44:54,396 Speaker 1: couple bars of a Willis Alan Ramsey song? True, yeah, 667 00:45:12,996 --> 00:45:17,316 Speaker 1: I wish it was a millionaire. I play rocking music 668 00:45:17,836 --> 00:45:24,196 Speaker 1: and grow along. Tell you boy, I buy new roads, 669 00:45:27,476 --> 00:45:33,516 Speaker 1: bringing women come to me. I give mall the third degree. 670 00:45:33,676 --> 00:45:55,276 Speaker 1: You can send Jeeves to keep Martha's streeting to do Halleluia, 671 00:45:56,716 --> 00:46:03,036 Speaker 1: let me zaga due, praise the Lord Pas and Mascal 672 00:46:03,156 --> 00:46:14,756 Speaker 1: lad and grate your whole Oh you come as soon 673 00:46:14,956 --> 00:46:43,476 Speaker 1: as him and blen my glab. Willis is a major 674 00:46:43,916 --> 00:46:48,716 Speaker 1: influence on me. I got to know Willis personally, and he's, 675 00:46:48,996 --> 00:46:52,116 Speaker 1: you know, one of my closest friends. I just admire 676 00:46:52,556 --> 00:46:58,036 Speaker 1: his He's now talk about detailed Willis Is. I'm convinced 677 00:46:58,076 --> 00:47:00,636 Speaker 1: that Willis allan Ramsay, can hear things that I can't hear. 678 00:47:00,716 --> 00:47:06,076 Speaker 1: He perceives things sonically that other people are imperceptible. I 679 00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:08,596 Speaker 1: got to interview him in nineteen seventy nine because the 680 00:47:08,676 --> 00:47:11,556 Speaker 1: Basement booked me to open for him, and I thought, well, 681 00:47:12,076 --> 00:47:13,956 Speaker 1: I'll ask the Battalion if I can write about it. 682 00:47:13,996 --> 00:47:16,396 Speaker 1: And I said yes, And so I'm interviewing him in 683 00:47:16,476 --> 00:47:20,276 Speaker 1: between sets. And I asked him in nineteen seventy nine 684 00:47:20,396 --> 00:47:23,916 Speaker 1: the obvious question. The first thing I said to him 685 00:47:24,036 --> 00:47:29,276 Speaker 1: was when you know, meaning the second album? And I 686 00:47:29,316 --> 00:47:32,036 Speaker 1: asked him a one word question. When he gave me 687 00:47:32,116 --> 00:47:34,716 Speaker 1: a one word answer, he said soon. And that was 688 00:47:34,756 --> 00:47:37,676 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine. I asked friend of mine who 689 00:47:37,676 --> 00:47:43,476 Speaker 1: teaches journalism in Austin, now, what is your most Texas song? 690 00:47:44,996 --> 00:47:47,996 Speaker 1: And he said, this old porch Ah very nice and 691 00:47:48,116 --> 00:47:50,796 Speaker 1: which is a which was a you know, a collaboration, 692 00:47:50,876 --> 00:47:54,436 Speaker 1: which is an unintended co write with my friend Robert O'Keane. 693 00:47:55,316 --> 00:47:58,036 Speaker 1: And he said Robert enjoys saying son of a bitch 694 00:47:58,076 --> 00:47:59,796 Speaker 1: a little more than you do in that song, and 695 00:47:59,956 --> 00:48:03,556 Speaker 1: I and I put it in, Yeah, Robert. It was 696 00:48:03,676 --> 00:48:06,756 Speaker 1: the spring of nineteen eighty and Robert and I had 697 00:48:07,516 --> 00:48:11,116 Speaker 1: stretched our undergraduate career as long as we could at 698 00:48:11,156 --> 00:48:13,396 Speaker 1: tex AM. Robert was class of seventy eight. I was 699 00:48:13,436 --> 00:48:16,956 Speaker 1: class of seventy nine. We graduated in August of nineteen 700 00:48:17,036 --> 00:48:22,636 Speaker 1: eighty on the same day. We were two of just 701 00:48:22,756 --> 00:48:25,676 Speaker 1: a few students from the college with Liberal Arts who 702 00:48:25,756 --> 00:48:29,436 Speaker 1: graduated that day. His name started with a K, mine 703 00:48:29,476 --> 00:48:31,316 Speaker 1: with an L. We sat right next to each other. 704 00:48:31,956 --> 00:48:35,516 Speaker 1: It was it was perfect, but we were both thinking, well, 705 00:48:35,556 --> 00:48:37,316 Speaker 1: what are we going to do? You know, neither one 706 00:48:37,316 --> 00:48:40,356 Speaker 1: of us had been interviewing for jobs. We wanted to 707 00:48:40,396 --> 00:48:45,076 Speaker 1: play music. And Robert played for me that spring a 708 00:48:45,156 --> 00:48:48,956 Speaker 1: new song and it was the first three verses of 709 00:48:49,356 --> 00:48:51,636 Speaker 1: what he called the front Ports song, and it was, 710 00:48:51,796 --> 00:48:54,316 Speaker 1: you know, a different tempo than I play it, and 711 00:48:54,396 --> 00:48:58,116 Speaker 1: it had some spoken word connections between the verses, which 712 00:48:58,156 --> 00:49:02,436 Speaker 1: suited Robert's personality great. And I said, well, I want 713 00:49:02,476 --> 00:49:03,956 Speaker 1: to learn that right now. Teach it to me. So 714 00:49:04,276 --> 00:49:07,516 Speaker 1: he did, and I went back to my apartment and 715 00:49:08,436 --> 00:49:10,996 Speaker 1: kept played it and played it, played it, and I 716 00:49:11,116 --> 00:49:15,876 Speaker 1: started thinking to myself, Robert painted these beautiful pictures of 717 00:49:16,356 --> 00:49:20,316 Speaker 1: places that we would go to, of places we loved, 718 00:49:20,996 --> 00:49:24,876 Speaker 1: in places we would miss, but he left himself out 719 00:49:24,916 --> 00:49:28,396 Speaker 1: of the song. And Robert had a wonderful relationship with 720 00:49:28,476 --> 00:49:31,316 Speaker 1: his landlord, man named Jack Boyett, who was in his seventies. 721 00:49:31,636 --> 00:49:33,596 Speaker 1: He seemed ancient, but he was just in his seventies. 722 00:49:34,196 --> 00:49:38,516 Speaker 1: And that area of town had been the Boyett family 723 00:49:38,596 --> 00:49:43,996 Speaker 1: farm years before and been sold off subvided a dilapidated 724 00:49:44,116 --> 00:49:47,036 Speaker 1: old farmhouse with a front porch that was always in 725 00:49:47,196 --> 00:49:50,396 Speaker 1: need of propping up, and Robert and his roommate Brian 726 00:49:50,516 --> 00:49:53,596 Speaker 1: Duckworth were always working on it and we'd all help, 727 00:49:53,716 --> 00:49:56,516 Speaker 1: and it was just the place where we all hung out. 728 00:49:57,356 --> 00:49:59,916 Speaker 1: I learned Robert's song, played it over and over, and 729 00:50:00,076 --> 00:50:05,036 Speaker 1: I started thinking about the tenderness Robert showed to mister Boyett, 730 00:50:05,076 --> 00:50:08,236 Speaker 1: who was regarded by his other tenants as being a 731 00:50:08,316 --> 00:50:12,596 Speaker 1: slum lord insensitive. And one thing that mister Boyett was 732 00:50:12,636 --> 00:50:14,996 Speaker 1: sort of famous for was he would just walk into 733 00:50:15,036 --> 00:50:17,956 Speaker 1: those rent houses as though they were his, as though 734 00:50:18,036 --> 00:50:21,636 Speaker 1: somebody else wasn't living there. And most of his tenants. 735 00:50:21,676 --> 00:50:23,556 Speaker 1: I mean some people moved out. Most of his tenants 736 00:50:23,596 --> 00:50:28,756 Speaker 1: were upset by that. And Robert when mister Boyett would 737 00:50:28,756 --> 00:50:31,076 Speaker 1: just walk in the front door and walk into the 738 00:50:31,156 --> 00:50:33,836 Speaker 1: kitchen and look into the refrigerator and say, hey, mister Boyett, 739 00:50:33,916 --> 00:50:38,996 Speaker 1: come on in. And I just always admired Robert's relationship 740 00:50:39,076 --> 00:50:42,756 Speaker 1: with him. I admired how Robert looked out for mister Boyett, 741 00:50:42,836 --> 00:50:45,316 Speaker 1: how he would go down to his mister Boyett's farm 742 00:50:45,396 --> 00:50:47,876 Speaker 1: place in Millican, Texas and help him with his cows 743 00:50:47,916 --> 00:50:50,356 Speaker 1: and help him patch the fence and just whatever he 744 00:50:50,436 --> 00:50:52,956 Speaker 1: needed to do, or go to lunch with mister Boyett. 745 00:50:53,516 --> 00:50:56,836 Speaker 1: And so I started thinking about that, and I wrote 746 00:50:56,916 --> 00:51:01,276 Speaker 1: the last three verses of that song and then went 747 00:51:01,516 --> 00:51:07,156 Speaker 1: to Robert and said, look, I'm not trying to meddle, 748 00:51:07,316 --> 00:51:13,836 Speaker 1: but can play this for you. And he really meant 749 00:51:13,876 --> 00:51:15,636 Speaker 1: a lot to me. He said, oh, I love that. 750 00:51:16,356 --> 00:51:19,796 Speaker 1: Let's keep it. We didn't really write the song together. 751 00:51:20,396 --> 00:51:24,316 Speaker 1: We wrote it separately in two parts, and I played 752 00:51:24,356 --> 00:51:26,796 Speaker 1: it the way I play it, and I left out 753 00:51:26,876 --> 00:51:29,956 Speaker 1: Robert's spoken word parts because I thought those who should 754 00:51:29,996 --> 00:51:34,116 Speaker 1: be unique to him. It's interesting that he had spoken 755 00:51:34,196 --> 00:51:37,196 Speaker 1: word parts that you say, sort of connected some of 756 00:51:37,236 --> 00:51:39,956 Speaker 1: the images. Yes, you know a lot of your writing 757 00:51:40,716 --> 00:51:44,716 Speaker 1: I think of back then as being very impressionistic. Don't 758 00:51:44,796 --> 00:51:47,876 Speaker 1: spell everything out, leave room for people to connect the 759 00:51:47,916 --> 00:51:51,756 Speaker 1: dots themselves, don't tell them how to connect the dots. 760 00:51:52,476 --> 00:51:55,116 Speaker 1: That kind of writing appeals to me. Is it something 761 00:51:55,236 --> 00:51:58,476 Speaker 1: where you have the idea and then you strip away 762 00:51:58,556 --> 00:52:01,756 Speaker 1: the connections or does it come out of the language. 763 00:52:02,236 --> 00:52:07,316 Speaker 1: I think it's more fun to drop breadcrumbs than it 764 00:52:07,476 --> 00:52:10,996 Speaker 1: is to pave the path. So a song like Pontiac, 765 00:52:11,036 --> 00:52:13,596 Speaker 1: for example, Yes, did that start with a character? Or 766 00:52:13,796 --> 00:52:16,236 Speaker 1: did that it did start with character? Was that something 767 00:52:16,276 --> 00:52:22,076 Speaker 1: you observed Before everybody became a songwriter. People sometimes would 768 00:52:23,076 --> 00:52:27,676 Speaker 1: suggest topics to write about, and my girlfriend at the 769 00:52:27,756 --> 00:52:30,996 Speaker 1: time said, you know what, you should write a song 770 00:52:31,036 --> 00:52:35,916 Speaker 1: about it? You know, My first thought was, yes, anything 771 00:52:36,636 --> 00:52:43,276 Speaker 1: except for what you're about to say. And she said. 772 00:52:43,396 --> 00:52:45,556 Speaker 1: She told me where she lived, and there was a 773 00:52:45,796 --> 00:52:49,476 Speaker 1: there was an art gallery next door, and she said, 774 00:52:49,836 --> 00:52:52,356 Speaker 1: there's a you know, there's a man that parks here 775 00:52:52,436 --> 00:52:54,796 Speaker 1: every afternoon. He says you should go talk to him, 776 00:52:55,236 --> 00:52:57,876 Speaker 1: and so I paid attention, and sure enough, he had 777 00:52:57,916 --> 00:53:01,116 Speaker 1: one of those old kind of faded GM blue that 778 00:53:01,316 --> 00:53:03,036 Speaker 1: that they had in those in those days. This was 779 00:53:03,116 --> 00:53:06,716 Speaker 1: in the mid eighties and I can't I can't remember 780 00:53:06,716 --> 00:53:10,516 Speaker 1: if it was a Vonneville, but what it was, it 781 00:53:10,636 --> 00:53:14,916 Speaker 1: was a sedan. He would open the door and Jack's 782 00:53:14,996 --> 00:53:18,596 Speaker 1: leg at the side, and he would smoke a cigarette 783 00:53:18,596 --> 00:53:19,956 Speaker 1: and there would be a can of coke on the 784 00:53:20,076 --> 00:53:24,436 Speaker 1: dashboard and he would It was just kind of on 785 00:53:24,596 --> 00:53:27,956 Speaker 1: a hill that went down to Shoal Creek in Austin, 786 00:53:28,236 --> 00:53:30,996 Speaker 1: and I thought, I don't want to talk to him. 787 00:53:31,556 --> 00:53:34,076 Speaker 1: It's like it seemed like such a ritual to him 788 00:53:35,076 --> 00:53:38,556 Speaker 1: that I wouldn't want to disturb it. I just imagined 789 00:53:39,756 --> 00:53:45,676 Speaker 1: what his story might be. But the idea was you 790 00:53:45,836 --> 00:53:51,036 Speaker 1: just don't know everything that's behind that face that you're seeing. 791 00:53:52,076 --> 00:53:55,356 Speaker 1: It's an experience that's common to all of us. That's 792 00:53:55,396 --> 00:53:57,476 Speaker 1: why in the music video, it is the very first 793 00:53:57,596 --> 00:54:00,076 Speaker 1: music video I ever did. I wanted to just have 794 00:54:00,276 --> 00:54:07,476 Speaker 1: portraits of people in a way to say this story 795 00:54:07,556 --> 00:54:10,836 Speaker 1: could belong to any of these people, or conversely, to 796 00:54:10,996 --> 00:54:14,716 Speaker 1: say the story that you're hearing about, each of these 797 00:54:14,796 --> 00:54:18,916 Speaker 1: people have their own story as well. And I'm in 798 00:54:18,956 --> 00:54:21,676 Speaker 1: the very last shot of that, and the record company 799 00:54:21,836 --> 00:54:24,796 Speaker 1: just you know, had very little reaction to the video 800 00:54:24,956 --> 00:54:29,476 Speaker 1: except you're not in it. And I said, well, yeah, 801 00:54:29,476 --> 00:54:32,036 Speaker 1: I'm there there, I am right there. It's just at 802 00:54:32,076 --> 00:54:35,356 Speaker 1: the very end. I said, well, yeah, it's a song 803 00:54:35,476 --> 00:54:37,356 Speaker 1: like a simple song. It's the same way. There's no 804 00:54:37,476 --> 00:54:40,356 Speaker 1: chorus to it. It goes right through. Was that something 805 00:54:40,516 --> 00:54:43,476 Speaker 1: Guy Clark or another songwriter had done that you admired. 806 00:54:44,276 --> 00:54:46,396 Speaker 1: It was just how it came out, and it was, 807 00:54:46,676 --> 00:54:49,596 Speaker 1: you know, simple song was earlier. You know, I made 808 00:54:49,676 --> 00:54:52,116 Speaker 1: up simple song. I think when I was eighteen. I 809 00:54:52,236 --> 00:54:57,636 Speaker 1: was a freshman and we were studying in English class. 810 00:54:57,676 --> 00:55:00,996 Speaker 1: We were studying the five paragraph paper. So I was 811 00:55:01,116 --> 00:55:02,996 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, I'm going to try to make up 812 00:55:03,036 --> 00:55:06,916 Speaker 1: a five verse song, you know, with the introductory verse, 813 00:55:07,956 --> 00:55:12,516 Speaker 1: three verses in the body, and then a conclusion verse. 814 00:55:13,316 --> 00:55:16,996 Speaker 1: That was a simple song. But but I don't I 815 00:55:17,396 --> 00:55:24,396 Speaker 1: didn't feel as though songs needed, you know, necessarily needed 816 00:55:24,476 --> 00:55:29,676 Speaker 1: a chorus. Funny thinking about that album, maybe one of 817 00:55:29,716 --> 00:55:34,356 Speaker 1: the most conventional songs is La County, which is actually 818 00:55:34,516 --> 00:55:37,636 Speaker 1: the most violent song, but it has the most um 819 00:55:39,036 --> 00:55:44,196 Speaker 1: immediately grasped kind of feel and structure. It's a story 820 00:55:44,276 --> 00:55:46,676 Speaker 1: song and you've got the chorus, but it's got the 821 00:55:46,756 --> 00:55:51,596 Speaker 1: most surprising ending and musically. But musically it's really unconventional 822 00:55:51,916 --> 00:55:54,716 Speaker 1: in that, you know, there are only two chords in 823 00:55:54,796 --> 00:55:58,396 Speaker 1: the song. Playing that for the first time to Tony Brown, 824 00:55:59,116 --> 00:56:02,636 Speaker 1: he raised his eyebrows. He said, really, really, it's just 825 00:56:02,756 --> 00:56:07,276 Speaker 1: two chords. I said, let's just try it. Let's try it. 826 00:56:07,556 --> 00:56:11,956 Speaker 1: So it was very order. All right, I've taken up 827 00:56:11,996 --> 00:56:13,356 Speaker 1: to the norms fount of your time, but it's been 828 00:56:13,956 --> 00:56:16,476 Speaker 1: hugely enjoyed. I'm sorry I talked so much. We're not 829 00:56:16,596 --> 00:56:19,036 Speaker 1: using tape anymore, so it's not like we're seeing the 830 00:56:19,116 --> 00:56:24,436 Speaker 1: real Thanks allow love It for coming on Broken Record 831 00:56:24,516 --> 00:56:27,116 Speaker 1: to talk about his life, career and a new level. 832 00:56:27,756 --> 00:56:29,676 Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite Lyle Lovett songs 833 00:56:29,756 --> 00:56:33,476 Speaker 1: on my playlist at Broken record podcast dot com. Be 834 00:56:33,596 --> 00:56:36,316 Speaker 1: sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot 835 00:56:36,356 --> 00:56:39,636 Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record Podcast, where we can find all 836 00:56:39,676 --> 00:56:42,876 Speaker 1: of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter 837 00:56:42,996 --> 00:56:45,876 Speaker 1: at broken Record. Broken Record is produced help from the 838 00:56:45,916 --> 00:56:50,356 Speaker 1: Arose Jason Gambrel, Bent Holiday, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez 839 00:56:50,476 --> 00:56:53,916 Speaker 1: the engineer, and help from Nick Chafee. Our executive producer 840 00:56:54,076 --> 00:56:58,356 Speaker 1: is Neil be Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 841 00:56:58,636 --> 00:57:00,916 Speaker 1: If you like this show and others from Pushkin, consider 842 00:57:00,996 --> 00:57:05,116 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 843 00:57:05,236 --> 00:57:08,596 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for 844 00:57:08,716 --> 00:57:13,316 Speaker 1: four na. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, 845 00:57:14,036 --> 00:57:16,396 Speaker 1: and if you like the show, please remember to share, rate, 846 00:57:16,436 --> 00:57:19,076 Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app. For the music, 847 00:57:19,076 --> 00:57:21,156 Speaker 1: spyt Candy Beats, I'm justin Richmond,