Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back season three of All the motherfucking Smoke. Jack, what's
Speaker 1: up with you, my brother? What's going on out there
Speaker 1: in l a mane? Man? I can't call it, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I had to wait for the nanny to
Speaker 1: get here, so Ash wasn't burning the house down before
Speaker 1: we jumped on this interview with our brother right here.
Speaker 1: But Man, shout, you gotta get shout out every time. Ashes,
Speaker 1: crazy man running the house and two years old, but
Speaker 1: it looks like he's five. Man. We got a man,
Speaker 1: A special guest, A great guest, someone who shipped on
Speaker 1: our two thousand seven dreams of going to the finals.
Speaker 1: But someone I've always been a real big fan of. Man,
Speaker 1: huge game, very underrated to me. Um just went about
Speaker 1: his business in a cold way. Welcome to the show,
Speaker 1: Darren Williams. Man, what's up with you? Man? I'm telling boys,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me on my boy. I can't complain.
Speaker 1: What's life being like man? Since you've being retired. I
Speaker 1: see your beautiful family. I follow you on Instagram all
Speaker 1: the time. Super daddy duty, great husband. What's life been
Speaker 1: like since uh you stopp dribbling their ball? Well ship
Speaker 1: a lot, uh you know for you know, the first
Speaker 1: couple of years, it was kind of just figuring out
Speaker 1: what the hell is next? You know, Um, I didn't
Speaker 1: really want to, you know, jump into coach and I
Speaker 1: needed a break from that that travel, that lifestyle. Plus
Speaker 1: I had you know, my kids are a little older,
Speaker 1: so I want to be able to spend time with them.
Speaker 1: I got a daughter that's uh, she's off in college now,
Speaker 1: got another one who's playing volleyball in high school and
Speaker 1: doing the club circuits. So I want to you know,
Speaker 1: be able to spend time with them and see them,
Speaker 1: you know, grow up. So kind of that's that's what
Speaker 1: that's what you know, consumes a lot of my time. Now.
Speaker 1: I was playing a lot of golf, but kind of
Speaker 1: took a step back from that. Lately. You finished playing
Speaker 1: in what your sixteen fifteen seventeen you and not finished
Speaker 1: the same year? What was that? What I mean, it
Speaker 1: wasn't really like I need to hurry up and do something.
Speaker 1: But how long did it kind of take you to
Speaker 1: kind of find your rhythm? Because you gotta think we've
Speaker 1: been pooping our whole entire lives, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Now you're now your mid thirties, your early thirties for you,
Speaker 1: and now you still got more than half your life
Speaker 1: ahead of you. What was that time like? What it's stressful?
Speaker 1: Was it boring? Was it fun? What was it like
Speaker 1: for you? Yeah, I'm thirty seven now, actually, uh so
Speaker 1: I'm I'm headed up. I'm headed to the forties with
Speaker 1: you boys. Um waiting honestly, Honestly, the first the first year,
Speaker 1: you know, it was kind of one of the things
Speaker 1: where I was like, do I still want to play?
Speaker 1: Do I do? I not? Um? And I kind of
Speaker 1: just started traveling. You know. I was skiing a bunch.
Speaker 1: I picked up skiing because it's something I couldn't do
Speaker 1: when I was When I was I was playing, but
Speaker 1: I always something always wanted to try, you know. I
Speaker 1: was golfing a lot, kind of just staying busy like that.
Speaker 1: You know, kids as well, and there's only so much
Speaker 1: of that stuff you can do. Where you start you
Speaker 1: start feeling, you start feeling like you're a mom. You
Speaker 1: ain't what what what's you know? What is this what
Speaker 1: my life is about? You know? Like you said, it's
Speaker 1: you know, we woke up every day with a purpose,
Speaker 1: with a passion. And then you know they try to
Speaker 1: tell you in all the meetings are the NBA meetings,
Speaker 1: about how one day you're gonna wake up and it's
Speaker 1: just gonna be it's gonna be over. And so, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, after about two years of that, and I
Speaker 1: was just like, man, I gotta I gotta do something.
Speaker 1: I can't just this all this idle time, and you know,
Speaker 1: your mind starts wandering, started you know, doing crazy things
Speaker 1: on you. Then I was going through a divorce at
Speaker 1: the time, so all that you know, kinda kind of started,
Speaker 1: you know, creeping in my mind, started weighing on you.
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, I gotta find something to do.
Speaker 1: And um, I had always I had done a couple
Speaker 1: of spec homes, you know, some some house building, and
Speaker 1: all the moving I've done and living in the houses,
Speaker 1: I started to develop a love for architecture and interior design,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, man, I gotta this' that's
Speaker 1: what that's what I love to do, is kind of
Speaker 1: you know, what I want to do. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I started, you know, started building some spec homes out
Speaker 1: here in Dallas. That's dope. Parkersburg, West Virginia. Tell us
Speaker 1: about your upbringing, Um, shoe, I was. I was born
Speaker 1: in Parkersburg, West Virginia, lived in Williamstown until I was
Speaker 1: about about four years old, almost five, and then I
Speaker 1: moved to Texas. My mom, um moved me to Texas.
Speaker 1: My aunt was out here living and so you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't spend too much time, um, you know, living
Speaker 1: full time in West Virginia, but I did go back
Speaker 1: every summer to stay with my grandparents and spend time
Speaker 1: with them up until like seventh grade, til you know,
Speaker 1: you reached that agevia you're like, oh, I just want
Speaker 1: to be around my friends. Um. But but West Virginia
Speaker 1: was fun. It was different, you know, I was I
Speaker 1: was the only only person of my color in that town.
Speaker 1: Uh town about about about three thousand. So I used
Speaker 1: to get a lot of a lot of looks, a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of little comments at the time.
Speaker 1: I didn't really understand until I got older. Um, but uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I definitely enjoyed my time there. Are you
Speaker 1: just light skin or you buy racial? My mom's white,
Speaker 1: dad's black. Yeah. Yeah. He was involved with wrestling growing up.
Speaker 1: Why could you describe your younger self and what other
Speaker 1: sports you was in besides basketball wrestling? And I grew
Speaker 1: up playing everything, you know. I was just one of
Speaker 1: them kids where I just wanted to. I just wanted
Speaker 1: to whatever whatever the sport was that season, and whatever
Speaker 1: my friends was doing, I was I was gonna do it,
Speaker 1: and I was gonna I was in and it didn't matter,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter. And yeah, wrestling was my Wrestling and
Speaker 1: soccer were actually my first two sports. And I didn't
Speaker 1: even really play organized you know, team basketball till I
Speaker 1: think fourth grade. Um, so, uh, you know, wrestling actually
Speaker 1: is my first sport. My mom, I get from my
Speaker 1: uncle wrestled in high school, college and in the army,
Speaker 1: and so she just, I don't know, she randomly just
Speaker 1: asked me if I wanted to wrestle, and I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll try. I mean, I don't I was
Speaker 1: like I was four, so I don't, you know, I
Speaker 1: remember it, But she tells me the story and she's like, so,
Speaker 1: you know, you went to practice and you went out
Speaker 1: there in your first match, and she said I had
Speaker 1: to drag you out there because you was crying like
Speaker 1: you didn't want to go out, and uh she had
Speaker 1: to do that every match the whole season because she was,
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have no money, so she was like,
Speaker 1: I paid for this. I signed you up and paid
Speaker 1: for this exactly. And so every match, she said that
Speaker 1: whole year, I went out, cried, cried on the way out,
Speaker 1: went out there, I got whooped pent real quick and left.
Speaker 1: And uh so the next summer she comes back and
Speaker 1: she's like, she asked me if I wanted to do
Speaker 1: it again, and she's expecting me to instantly say no,
Speaker 1: and for some reason I said yes. And she said,
Speaker 1: like halfway through the year, it was the same thing,
Speaker 1: and she's like, here we go again, every match, crying,
Speaker 1: And then I guess something about halfway through flipped. I
Speaker 1: was sick of getting whooped and going home crying, so
Speaker 1: I kind of flipped the switch and and uh went
Speaker 1: the other way. You know, I'm a Texas boy myself,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Speak on being from Texas
Speaker 1: and being from Texas, who did you monther your game?
Speaker 1: After Shure? I had a you know a lot of
Speaker 1: guys I feel like I looked up to. I watched
Speaker 1: a lot of basketball, a lot of college basketball and
Speaker 1: so um a lot of NBA and I kind of
Speaker 1: just tried to model my game after a lot of people,
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I guess I set myself a
Speaker 1: student of the game at the time, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: JA Kid was was a big influence on me. Gary Payton,
Speaker 1: a lot of the a lot of the bigger guards,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the bigger guards. You know,
Speaker 1: when you're you're kind of the same size of them,
Speaker 1: and that's the trend at the time. That's who you're
Speaker 1: gonna you know, you're gonna watch and and try to emulate.
Speaker 1: But man, I was I was a fan of AI.
Speaker 1: I mean who wasn't who didn't want to who didn't
Speaker 1: want to have to cross over like AI. I watched Starberry,
Speaker 1: I watched Stevie franchise. Um. Man, I even watched guys
Speaker 1: like Sam casell Um, you know, Baron Davis, Um. You know, yeah, y'all,
Speaker 1: y'all's brother, we did. But you know, before that, I
Speaker 1: was a fan. I mean I wore I wore five
Speaker 1: in high school and him, him and J Kidd was
Speaker 1: a big reason. Um, you know, I didn't have athleticism
Speaker 1: uh b d there, But I was you know, I
Speaker 1: was a little sneaky, definitely got it all. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: high school star, you end up choosing Illinois. Was there
Speaker 1: anyone else you seriously considered before picking there? Yeah? I mean, my, my,
Speaker 1: my situation was a little crazy because I had kind
Speaker 1: of had like a top UM top four. It was
Speaker 1: Illinois was kind of number one, but but Dee Brown
Speaker 1: had already committed there, and I'm like, why why y'all
Speaker 1: still recruit me? And y'all got this little point guard
Speaker 1: who's ranked ahead of me. I've never seen him play,
Speaker 1: but he was ranked ahead of me. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not a two guard. I'm I'm a point guard.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I don't know. UM, Georgia Tech, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: and Maryland were my top four and so I was
Speaker 1: set to go on my uh my visits and the
Speaker 1: day before I was supposed to the week I was
Speaker 1: supposed to go to Illinois, UM nine eleven happened and
Speaker 1: so that set everything back and I had I don't
Speaker 1: know how many months I had to wait UM before
Speaker 1: I could take a visit. But in that time when
Speaker 1: I was waiting UM, the week before I was supposed
Speaker 1: to go to Tennessee for my visit. Uh C J.
Speaker 1: Watson committed to Tennessee and then the day before I
Speaker 1: was supposed to go, or the day I was supposed
Speaker 1: to go to Georgia tech um Jared Jack committed and
Speaker 1: then Maryland called me. It was like I had never met,
Speaker 1: really met Gary Williams except for like at a tournament,
Speaker 1: like saying hi. And they told me he wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: be on my visit, and I was like, well, I
Speaker 1: ain't gonna go. I ain't gonna go nowhere where the
Speaker 1: coaching would be on a visit, I ain't met him,
Speaker 1: and and Steve Blake was already there, so it was
Speaker 1: kind of like a It was a process of elimination.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, Illinois was kind of my
Speaker 1: top school anyway, so it worked out. So you started
Speaker 1: with Bill self there right, was that your first year? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Bill self and then he left after freshman came in
Speaker 1: and really helped you developed your game along alongside playing
Speaker 1: with Dee Brown and Luther Head. You guys had a
Speaker 1: good young a good young squad because I was finishing
Speaker 1: up right when you got into college. So I remember
Speaker 1: you guys, what were some of your biggest takeaways from
Speaker 1: Coach Webber and then being able to play with two
Speaker 1: future pros and Dee Brown and Luther Head. Yeah, honestly,
Speaker 1: I was. I was almost I was like, I was
Speaker 1: like pretty damn close to to to transferring, um after
Speaker 1: my freshman year, after coach coach self left because he
Speaker 1: was a big reason I went there, him and him
Speaker 1: and Billy Gillespie, and he Billy Gillespie had had took
Speaker 1: his first head job, you know, before my freshman year.
Speaker 1: And then coach self left and then Bruce Webber came
Speaker 1: in and I didn't really know much about him, um,
Speaker 1: and nobody really did at the time, and then Coach
Speaker 1: Webber loved him to death, you know, still talk to
Speaker 1: him all the time. But he's a little goofy, and
Speaker 1: so if you don't you don't really if you don't
Speaker 1: know him, it's hard to understand them, you know, hard
Speaker 1: to see where he's coming from as a coach, as
Speaker 1: a person. Um. So it took me a little bit
Speaker 1: of time, and I was I was pretty damn close
Speaker 1: to transferring. But I'm honestly, I'm glad I didn't, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for coach both coaches, but really coach
Speaker 1: Webber because he definitely helped me flourish in his offense. Um,
Speaker 1: it's kind of built for me and kind of you know,
Speaker 1: helped me prepare for the NBA. We ran in motion
Speaker 1: with a lot of picking rolls, which at the time
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of a lot of college
Speaker 1: teams were doing. And so it helped me learn learned spacing, UM,
Speaker 1: learned the pick and roll game really well. Oh, and
Speaker 1: then learning how to move without the ball, which definitely
Speaker 1: came in handy when I got when I got to
Speaker 1: Utah and playing in Jerry Sloan system. Junior year, you
Speaker 1: lead your team to the national Championship game but fall
Speaker 1: short to North Carolina and Raymond Felton. What do you
Speaker 1: remember about your junior year, Um, and then that national
Speaker 1: championship game? Yeah, I mean it was a crazy year.
Speaker 1: We we finished that sophomore year, like I said, we
Speaker 1: kinda we had a rough first half of the year,
Speaker 1: I think just we were all adjusting to the new system,
Speaker 1: new coach, UM. But we closed out that last that
Speaker 1: last UM half of the season pretty strong, won the
Speaker 1: Big ten Um Championship, and then you know, I had
Speaker 1: a pretty successful run, lost to Duke in the in
Speaker 1: the sweet sixteen, and so we kind of just built
Speaker 1: on on on that momentum, you know, going into the
Speaker 1: next season and started off you know, hot, about as
Speaker 1: hot as you can, you know, didn't lose until the
Speaker 1: last last game of the regular season. And I had
Speaker 1: always had hopes of playing in the NBA, and and
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like I was was good enough.
Speaker 1: But I was never one of those guys that was
Speaker 1: even in high school. I wasn't you know, highly touted.
Speaker 1: I wasn't McDonald's. I wasn't you know most of the part.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even top fifty besides a couple of little rankings,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't I believed in myself, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't seeing you know, my name on the draft wars.
Speaker 1: I wasn't seeing any of that stuff. And and that season,
Speaker 1: you know, as we kept winning, UM, you could just
Speaker 1: see my name just kind of slowly showing up and
Speaker 1: showed up on second round and would show up on um,
Speaker 1: you know, late first round, and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden we get to the you know, we get to
Speaker 1: the Elite eight, and I had that big game against Arizona,
Speaker 1: having to come back against them, and UM made it
Speaker 1: to the final four in the championship game, and my
Speaker 1: name just kept kept climbing, UM, and just honestly happened
Speaker 1: so fast because that season, you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: that season blew by UM and we get to that
Speaker 1: national championship game and fall short to I mean, they
Speaker 1: were a stack team. So who was who was on
Speaker 1: that Who else was on that team? Man? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Sean May, Ray Felton, r Shan mccainns UM, Jawal Williams,
Speaker 1: Marvin Williams, didn't even he was second pick in the
Speaker 1: draft and he came off the bench. Um. They were
Speaker 1: they were stating they had a good squad, and you know,
Speaker 1: I still think we could have beat him, but you know,
Speaker 1: they were the better team that night, for sure. But
Speaker 1: you were one of those rare players. And it's funny
Speaker 1: how you kind of just explained the same way, like
Speaker 1: you were at your best in the NBA. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes people are at their best in college
Speaker 1: and that's kind of the best of you, but like
Speaker 1: the best of you was yet to come, which I
Speaker 1: think is dope because you obviously became a star in
Speaker 1: the NBA. But go ahead, Jack. You declared for the
Speaker 1: NBA two thousand and five after that season. What was
Speaker 1: that thought process like after that season, after Louis Uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it took it, you know it. I
Speaker 1: had a little bit of thought of that maybe coming back, um,
Speaker 1: just because I felt like, you know, we could still
Speaker 1: be really good. Um. But it's hard when you're my mom.
Speaker 1: At the time, she didn't have she she had lost
Speaker 1: her job. I had a I had a child that
Speaker 1: I had my freshman year. She was about to be too.
Speaker 1: And you see that, you know, your guarantee top ten. Um,
Speaker 1: it was kind of a no brainer for me at
Speaker 1: the times. Yeah, I had to go get that money.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, if it was like it is
Speaker 1: now where these kids are getting paid and you know,
Speaker 1: you can get some endorsements, it might have been different.
Speaker 1: But at the time, you know, my stock was at
Speaker 1: an all time high. You know, nobody expected me to
Speaker 1: be a top five pick, and so, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I had to strike while I was hot. So the
Speaker 1: Utah Jazz had left you third uh CP three's in
Speaker 1: that class draft class. As you mentioned, Marvin Williams went
Speaker 1: right before you. Uh. Any memorable things happened draft nights,
Speaker 1: crazy stories anything you haven't told nobody, Not really, not really.
Speaker 1: I mean I had worked out. I didn't work out
Speaker 1: for Milwaukee. I think Andrew Bogan was pretty much a
Speaker 1: locket Number one. Worked out for Atlanta. I thought I
Speaker 1: had a really good workout and they needed a point
Speaker 1: guard at the time because they had like three small forward,
Speaker 1: power forward type players already. You know, I had your brother,
Speaker 1: al um, Josh Childress, they had Josh Smith, and then
Speaker 1: they end up picking up picking up Marvin. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, I knew it was either it was either
Speaker 1: them Utah or Charlotte. But New Orleans or Charlotte because
Speaker 1: I worked out for all those teams that were you know,
Speaker 1: two through five. Um, but nothing, nothing really stood out,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know. I knew. I knew CP
Speaker 1: was was more highly regarded than me, and so I
Speaker 1: figured he might go before me. But I knew Utah
Speaker 1: was kind of um big on my size and having
Speaker 1: a bigger, bigger point guard. M hm. So Salt Lake City, Utah,
Speaker 1: what is that like for you? As what are you
Speaker 1: nineteen or twenty at this point I was I had
Speaker 1: just turned twenty one two days before the draft, so
Speaker 1: what was that like culture shock, I'm guessing, Um yeah,
Speaker 1: it was different. I mean, but uh, I feel like
Speaker 1: I can live anywhere. I mean, I lived in Champagne, Illinois.
Speaker 1: It's number corn fields out there, you know. And um,
Speaker 1: I was I had, I had, I had a you know,
Speaker 1: a girlfriend at the time who ended up being my wife,
Speaker 1: you know, one baby and another one on the way.
Speaker 1: So I was kind of I think it was kind
Speaker 1: of good for me, you know that you didn't have that,
Speaker 1: didn't have that Atlanta nightlife, you know, things like that.
Speaker 1: It helps you, uh, you know, stay more focused, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I said you were like stacking you're allergic
Speaker 1: condoms at a young age. Huh, yeah, you can say that.
Speaker 1: You can say that I had I had four before
Speaker 1: I was twenty six. Four kids. Jackie might be with you,
Speaker 1: jack but then you definitely you definitely got him beat
Speaker 1: then because he got not even my category. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: not even my category, he's not even So what was
Speaker 1: what was your rookie experience? Like who was some of
Speaker 1: the bets you had on that squad? Uh? So I
Speaker 1: had I had, Like my vet vest was was note Pelosio.
Speaker 1: He was probably one that that helped me the most
Speaker 1: my rookie year kind of took me under his wing. Um.
Speaker 1: And then I had Matt Heartpering, Greg Ostertag and then
Speaker 1: you know Booze and and a K and Memo kind
Speaker 1: of vets. But they were still you know, they were
Speaker 1: like fourth year in. Um, we had a pretty pretty
Speaker 1: young team besides besides you know, Matt Harpering and Ostertag, Um,
Speaker 1: so we were ready to rock. What was that system like?
Speaker 1: And obviously a legendary coach like Jerry Sloan? How hard
Speaker 1: was it was? It was it a tough transition to
Speaker 1: kind of fit in or did you kind of fit
Speaker 1: in seamlessly? No? I feel like I fit in pretty seamlessly. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, the hardest thing was with coach Sloan was
Speaker 1: he he was one of those coaches that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: he was super old school, so he wasn't just gonna
Speaker 1: start a rookie just because you know he's picked third.
Speaker 1: You know, I remember to start the season, Keith McCloud
Speaker 1: was the starting point guard and Milt Um. Milt and
Speaker 1: me kind of rotated in. I would play a lot
Speaker 1: with Milk one, one, two. But I mean the first
Speaker 1: half of the season I was pretty much playing second
Speaker 1: and fourth quarters. That's it, just twenty four minutes second
Speaker 1: fourth quarter. So I would I would in the game,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't starting. And it still bothered me because
Speaker 1: I knew I was I was the best point guard.
Speaker 1: I knew I was the best option. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: as coach Slan, he wants to make you earn it.
Speaker 1: And I went through a lot of ups and downs
Speaker 1: that season, a lot of a lot of frustrations. UM,
Speaker 1: even a point where I was kind of I wasn't
Speaker 1: playing well. I wasn't playing a lot. It's like one
Speaker 1: game I played, I played a whole guy. I played
Speaker 1: forty eight minutes, and then the next game I played eight.
Speaker 1: And it's just I wouldn't I wouldn't know what And
Speaker 1: I think it's not. I don't say it's him working
Speaker 1: with me, but I mean it kind of was. And
Speaker 1: that's what I think. That's what he wanted to see,
Speaker 1: how you would react, how you respond. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and at the time you don't know this, you're t
Speaker 1: you know, you're twenty one years old. You're just like
Speaker 1: that funk this. You know there's some bullshit. Um, But
Speaker 1: when you look back on it. You know what, you
Speaker 1: see what he's doing. He's he's trying to you know, um,
Speaker 1: see what your character is, see how you're gonna respond.
Speaker 1: And and I had to at once. I think it
Speaker 1: was like All Star Break. I wasn't, like I said,
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I was gonna play. I didn't
Speaker 1: know I was gonna play the one. I was gonna
Speaker 1: play the two. And I took All Star Break, and
Speaker 1: I was like, man, you know what, when you come back,
Speaker 1: you just gotta no matter what you do, you just
Speaker 1: gotta go out there and play hard, because that's what
Speaker 1: he wants. He just wants you to play hard. Practice.
Speaker 1: It was practice. I was competing like like it was
Speaker 1: a game. I was gonna treat that like it was
Speaker 1: a game. Shoot around we had to take for shoot around.
Speaker 1: I was gonna treat that like a game. You had
Speaker 1: one of those around, yeah, yeah. And so it took,
Speaker 1: like I guess I think five games after after All
Speaker 1: Star Break, where I just was, I was just going hard,
Speaker 1: and then he ended up starting me and I started
Speaker 1: the rest of the season. We missed. We missed the
Speaker 1: playoffs by one game. I think we missed by one
Speaker 1: or two games, which I believe we could have made
Speaker 1: up for I would have started from the beginning, but
Speaker 1: you know that's that's neither hear there. What was kind
Speaker 1: of like your did you have like an all moment
Speaker 1: your first year playing anybody that you kind of idolize
Speaker 1: your look up to my first game, the first game
Speaker 1: of the season, Jay Kid, Yeah, played Jay Kuld. I
Speaker 1: had eighteen. Uh. I felt like I was on top
Speaker 1: of the world after that game, you know, I was like,
Speaker 1: I helped my own in twenty four minutes. So, um,
Speaker 1: I think that that definitely helped my confidence. I always
Speaker 1: knew that I belonged. I think from from from the
Speaker 1: get go. M uh, as you said, you kind of
Speaker 1: in and out, up and down, but you're still able
Speaker 1: to make a first team All rookie. Um next to
Speaker 1: Chris Paul the only one to receive Rookie of the
Speaker 1: Year votes. Was that, I mean not He's not really
Speaker 1: a surprise because you knew you had it in you,
Speaker 1: but the fact that it was kind of an up
Speaker 1: and down first half you were still to make All
Speaker 1: Team rookie was a surprise to you. Um No, I
Speaker 1: mean I knew I was first team, but I don't
Speaker 1: think I deserved to vote for uh for for Rookie
Speaker 1: of the Year. I think CEP definitely had that, you
Speaker 1: know he he you know, was kind of giving the
Speaker 1: keys to the ship right away, um and and play
Speaker 1: really well. So uh, my Loan, my loan vote was
Speaker 1: Ron Boone, which was he you know, he was TV
Speaker 1: for the Jazz. So shout out vote for that vote.
Speaker 1: But but I don't think I don't think I deserved
Speaker 1: it one thing about it. As much as I dislike
Speaker 1: playing in Utah and being in Utah, Coach Loan loved
Speaker 1: me bro He tried to actually he tried to give
Speaker 1: me out there a couple of times. And one thing
Speaker 1: I think the reason why he liked me because I
Speaker 1: was able to thrive in that Pop system and him
Speaker 1: and Pop are very similar with their coach at tactics,
Speaker 1: like they'll they'll do a lot of things to you
Speaker 1: as young players just to see how you're gonna react,
Speaker 1: gonna react. They already know how you gonna react and
Speaker 1: what's your response is gonna be, but they're still put
Speaker 1: you through it just to see how you're gonna respond.
Speaker 1: So that's one thing I respected about him because he
Speaker 1: was a tough minded coach. As long as you played hard,
Speaker 1: you gotta respect c P. I had a short stint
Speaker 1: with the Clippers. But during that short stint we played, y'all.
Speaker 1: And when I talked when for some reason for me,
Speaker 1: you know, I've always been a fan of you like me,
Speaker 1: and you talked doing my career, doing your career, talking
Speaker 1: about playing together d well, so but I know, for
Speaker 1: some reason, it seemed like U n c P had
Speaker 1: a battle to see who can cross each cross each
Speaker 1: other over the most. So that game I played for
Speaker 1: the Clippers, we played in Brooklyn, bro U n c
Speaker 1: P the first quarter must have crossed each each each
Speaker 1: other over about ten times a piece in these picking roles. Bro,
Speaker 1: What what what? What? What was it with you and CP? Bro?
Speaker 1: Was it was it just that the competitiveness, But it
Speaker 1: just seemed like, yeah, I was trying to cross each
Speaker 1: other over the whole game. Yeah, I mean I feel
Speaker 1: I feel like I tried to cross everybody over. Stat
Speaker 1: you know that. I mean, you know, it didn't matter
Speaker 1: who was But I think I think, I think the
Speaker 1: CP thing was it was a friendly robbery because we
Speaker 1: had known each other since since college, um, and we
Speaker 1: played each other in college they were number one at
Speaker 1: the beginning of that season or my junior year when
Speaker 1: when we both left and we ended up we ended
Speaker 1: up blowing them out, and we neither one of us
Speaker 1: really had good games. But I feel like that's kind
Speaker 1: of where where the rivalry started right there. And then
Speaker 1: I think going going three and four in the draft,
Speaker 1: one after each other, and and we were always linked
Speaker 1: to each other, you know, throughout the media. You know,
Speaker 1: they would always bring it up every game, and so
Speaker 1: you know, it's definitely and and we were, you know,
Speaker 1: to the up and coming point guards in the league.
Speaker 1: So I used to get up for that game for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean I get up for all the good point
Speaker 1: great point guards, but but definitely, you know, against cp UM,
Speaker 1: because you had to. You're gonna get embarrassed. Jack. I
Speaker 1: think I remember that game too where he actually crossed
Speaker 1: something over and had the audacity to try to dunk
Speaker 1: on Blake and Ryan Hollands, and Blake caught that ship
Speaker 1: with his r pit remember that dye. But if I
Speaker 1: would have, if I would have made it, hey, that
Speaker 1: would have been crazy because you were chested chance with
Speaker 1: six eleven and seven one. But when I look, when
Speaker 1: I look back. Yeah, I should have tried to up
Speaker 1: and under a scoop for something she was But now
Speaker 1: I like that you went hard, like fucking I'm gonna
Speaker 1: try to dunk this bit. He was in the Western
Speaker 1: Conference too, So what what what other matchups you look
Speaker 1: forward to? You know, you had the Legs, you had,
Speaker 1: the Spurs, you had, you know, the Mavericks. What are
Speaker 1: the matchups you look forward to? Besides, I always like
Speaker 1: to play Dallas and was like to play at home
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm from Dallas, so um, that was
Speaker 1: always fun to go go home and play in front
Speaker 1: from my family and friends. Definitely love playing against San
Speaker 1: Antonio just because they were always the best you know,
Speaker 1: UM and TP brought brought the best out of you
Speaker 1: and and just that system you have to be locked into.
Speaker 1: Play against the Spurs where you're gonna get embarrassed, um,
Speaker 1: because they were just a well oiled machine. Um. Definitely
Speaker 1: like playing against y'all um the Bay. Honestly, that was
Speaker 1: one of the That's one of the craziest arenas to
Speaker 1: playing when I was When I was playing at Oracle, Um, y'all,
Speaker 1: y'all fans, y'all fans, they had to come up and
Speaker 1: put um, well, they put security by my mom in
Speaker 1: the playoffs because my mom was crazy too. She'd be
Speaker 1: talking like she was like nobody talking about about me. Yea, so,
Speaker 1: and my mom whistled. She got that loud whistle where
Speaker 1: you you know, blow with your with your with your fingers,
Speaker 1: and she was doing that in the game. And so
Speaker 1: then this other dude started whistling in her like all close.
Speaker 1: So she calls up the the ushers and she she's
Speaker 1: explaining what's happening, and the usher basically ain't care, called
Speaker 1: another usher down, told her to stop, she needed to
Speaker 1: stop whistling, and in stood behind her and was whistling
Speaker 1: in her ear. This this is during this during the
Speaker 1: Western semis Um that this happened. But h man, it's
Speaker 1: it's honestly like I feel like when I was when
Speaker 1: I was playing, every night was was a tough match
Speaker 1: up at my position. I mean, you had the sons,
Speaker 1: you had Steve Nash, you know, Ai had come over
Speaker 1: to in Denver, and before that it was Chauncey you know, um,
Speaker 1: and so it was just I mean, every night was
Speaker 1: was was a battle. So you helped in the three
Speaker 1: year drought make the playoffs the two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: two thousand seventh season. What was that first round battle
Speaker 1: like with with Houston, Man, it was crazy, honestly, Um,
Speaker 1: nobody nobody expected us to win that. They had Team
Speaker 1: mac Man. Yeah, um yeah, way for Austin Bonds Wells yea, yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: nobody nobody expected us to win that. But you know
Speaker 1: we took him to Game seven and on the road
Speaker 1: and one down in Houston. Um, and so yeah, that
Speaker 1: that definitely, I think I think that whole season was
Speaker 1: you know, it was a was a big confidence booster
Speaker 1: for me because that's where I kind of started gaining
Speaker 1: notoriety around the league and in the media. But I
Speaker 1: think that that playoffs is what kind of gave me
Speaker 1: my confidence, like that superstar confidence where you feel like
Speaker 1: you're the best player on the court no matter who
Speaker 1: you play, and you was definitely playing like it. So
Speaker 1: second round we do the unthinkable and able to beat
Speaker 1: Dallas to meet you guys in the second round. Um,
Speaker 1: you guys beat us for they for too, you guys
Speaker 1: beat us. But I'm not gonna lie. I really felt
Speaker 1: like we got cheated by the rest in game one.
Speaker 1: In Game two with all the mother, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: hold on now, I would say we got cheated in
Speaker 1: game two, but game yeah, game too now, But it
Speaker 1: was to me, I mean, and Jack and I still
Speaker 1: talk about this. I mean, your guys crowd was crazy,
Speaker 1: sometimes crossed the line, but at the same time, we
Speaker 1: loved it because, like you said, the bullshit that you
Speaker 1: faced an oracle, like as players were thriving that like,
Speaker 1: we love that kind of negative energy towards us because
Speaker 1: it only gets us going more. But your guys crowd
Speaker 1: was wild. The more of us were out there acting up. Boy,
Speaker 1: That's that's what I hear. Man. So I never heard
Speaker 1: anything racial or anything like that. That's that's what I
Speaker 1: hear from everybody. So it's not like it's just one
Speaker 1: or two players said this. I hadn't heard it. I
Speaker 1: hadn't heard it from everybody. They're like, man, y'all fans
Speaker 1: be saying whatever took us for real? Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they were. They were crazy. I mean I remember my
Speaker 1: first I mean, our crowd was always great throughout the
Speaker 1: whole season was honestly, it was amazing, but that my first, um,
Speaker 1: that first playoff game that I ever played. And you
Speaker 1: talk when I ran out I got chills on all
Speaker 1: out of it because I wasn't expecting. I mean, the
Speaker 1: whole the whole arena was already filled and they was ready,
Speaker 1: you know, had all the same colored shirts on, and
Speaker 1: just man, you went out there and it just seemed
Speaker 1: like the roof was about the blow off. You remember
Speaker 1: the car board cut out the guy had of me
Speaker 1: under the basket and the jail. Mr I remember, I
Speaker 1: remember that Mr Wagby. Yeah, the LFE size. Let's to
Speaker 1: Mr Mr Wammy. He always had a little rubber chicken him.
Speaker 1: Not too long ago. I talked to him not too
Speaker 1: long ago on DN and my dear, that's Dough a
Speaker 1: one person who kind of I mean, obviously you guys
Speaker 1: were loaded with yourself Booze or Cord Young millsap someone
Speaker 1: who I think kind of got overlooked. But I know,
Speaker 1: you know how important he was. Talked to us about
Speaker 1: a K forty seven because to me, he changed the
Speaker 1: whole dynamic. Jack and Beady were both rolling in the
Speaker 1: first round and a K was someone who slowed both
Speaker 1: of them down a little bit. But talk to me
Speaker 1: about his versatility and how much he meant for your guys.
Speaker 1: Team man listen, if a if a K had a
Speaker 1: jumper insistent, I think he would have been the best
Speaker 1: player in the league at the time, Like honestly, because
Speaker 1: there's nobody it was they could fill up stats like him.
Speaker 1: I mean Lebron Lebron, But man, he just had he
Speaker 1: just he was everywhere um defensively and then offensively. He
Speaker 1: had he had a great feel for the game. He
Speaker 1: was a great passer, great understanding of where to be
Speaker 1: um and like you said, what he does on defense,
Speaker 1: I mean, he he changes the game. You know, he's
Speaker 1: he's he's his help side defense is incredible. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: he raised a lot of mistakes with him because we
Speaker 1: didn't have the say her shot blocker, you know we
Speaker 1: had we had been Moan boo, so they neither one
Speaker 1: of them was really shot blockers. It was a K
Speaker 1: that would would come and help and at the time,
Speaker 1: you know, the three position was probably one that you
Speaker 1: could help off the most in that area. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: but Bed did get him. That motherfucker was coming from
Speaker 1: the week stide blocking everything. But Beati went on that
Speaker 1: baseline that one time and got him. What were you
Speaker 1: thinking during that dunk? I'm so sick of seeing that
Speaker 1: ship and even this year that was the opening day.
Speaker 1: They had shirts, they had posters, this ship was twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. And then and then and then fast forward,
Speaker 1: Steph dunks and pulls up his shirt like recreating it.
Speaker 1: So then you know it goes back viral. Then you
Speaker 1: got you got all these you got all these I
Speaker 1: G s. You got throwback hoops, she got way back hoops,
Speaker 1: she got pastime hoops. They showed it, and then and
Speaker 1: then I feel bad because it's my dad fault. Terrible defense.
Speaker 1: Uh but yeah, I mean if you're a shot blocker,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get guys. It's just it's a but it
Speaker 1: was bad. Man. He smushed his nose when they showed him.
Speaker 1: It's it's bad. Next that next that next year we
Speaker 1: played on that first game. That's that's what was that
Speaker 1: had posters cut out of that his smudged nose with
Speaker 1: with Beati's hand on it. I was like, damn, my fault.
Speaker 1: I was all I could do is say sorry. The
Speaker 1: reason why I was so crazy though, because Beaty had
Speaker 1: a bad knee, he had a bad back. He wasn't
Speaker 1: supposed to play that game. Uh. All that, all that,
Speaker 1: all that that was going on. He said he didn't
Speaker 1: have it, he was back, was hurting, his knee was hurt.
Speaker 1: He was gonna play all that and he come out
Speaker 1: and do that. That that's that's what That's what really
Speaker 1: shocked us because we didn't know. I didn't know he
Speaker 1: had it in him. To be honest, yeah I did,
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I didn't know. He didn't tell me
Speaker 1: all that we was. I mean I literally was with
Speaker 1: him every before every game, and I definitely didn't know
Speaker 1: he was hurt. But you know, he ain't gonna say
Speaker 1: that to me because I'm very possible. Yeah, you're gonna
Speaker 1: go at him and take advantage of it. So you
Speaker 1: guys were able to advance to the Western Finals first
Speaker 1: time since ninety eight, since the Stockton the Malone era.
Speaker 1: You face a tough uh San Antonio Spurs team. What
Speaker 1: was that experience like for you? Man? It's a little
Speaker 1: bit like yours. I felt like we were cheated. I
Speaker 1: felt like Dick Bavetta got us in game games, game three, UM,
Speaker 1: because we were down. We lost both games in San Antonio, UM,
Speaker 1: and then had Game three and that was a game four,
Speaker 1: Game three, Game four, I can't remember. No, I think
Speaker 1: it was Game three because I think we went down
Speaker 1: three three, oh, which I mean you can't really do
Speaker 1: against him, But it was it was a good learning experience,
Speaker 1: you know. And it was one of those where, like
Speaker 1: I said, the confidence starts to grow. Um, I think
Speaker 1: for us as a team as well. Um, And we
Speaker 1: got to play against the champs. You know, they ended
Speaker 1: up winning. They end up sweeping uh Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Calves in the finals, and so you know, we felt
Speaker 1: like we felt like we belonged. We felt like honestly,
Speaker 1: I think we could have we could have beat Cleveland.
Speaker 1: If we would have, we would have got past San Antonio,
Speaker 1: MM old dirty Dick Bavetta. Huh. Let's talk about the teammates,
Speaker 1: Booze and Paul millsapp they tried to build them like
Speaker 1: a stock him a long time connection with you and Boozer,
Speaker 1: you know, talk about that team and how all that
Speaker 1: came together and how it was like playing with guys
Speaker 1: like Mill Sapping or callers. Booze, Yeah, man, I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: me and Booze definitely had a connection from from the start. Um. Offensively, uh,
Speaker 1: He's just he was so good in the pick a role.
Speaker 1: He's a very smart player. Um, you know, obviously went
Speaker 1: to Duke, so most of most of them dudes know
Speaker 1: how to play the game. You know, I understand where
Speaker 1: to be on the floor. And you know, he was
Speaker 1: a great finisher around the basket, could shoot that little
Speaker 1: the little fifteen seventeen foot pull up and um, it
Speaker 1: was a hell of a screener, that's for sure, big body.
Speaker 1: So you know, he made my job easy. Um. And
Speaker 1: then Paul mills at and I watched him, watched him
Speaker 1: developed from from a guy drafted forty thinkt um who
Speaker 1: nobody even really I didn't know who he was coming out. Um,
Speaker 1: and just every year, you know, it just he just
Speaker 1: got better, improved. And he's had a hell of a
Speaker 1: career if you would have Man, he's still playing the
Speaker 1: game right now at level you know, um, multi time
Speaker 1: All Star, um, you know, and and it's fun seeing
Speaker 1: him still still playing, hopefully hopefully be able to get
Speaker 1: a ring. Mm hmmm. What was your relationship like with
Speaker 1: Jerry Sloan. Obviously we're on the outside, so we only
Speaker 1: hear the media perspective, and we know sometimes the media
Speaker 1: perspective is off, but it was it was It was
Speaker 1: seemed like a little back and forth between you guys,
Speaker 1: and there was rumors that mid season he had uh
Speaker 1: stepped down because some situations had with you guys. Uh
Speaker 1: clear the air with your and Jared Sloan situation. Obviously,
Speaker 1: rest in peace to Coach Sloan. Yeah, yeah, rest in
Speaker 1: peace Coach Loan. Um. You know, I think our our
Speaker 1: relationship was was definitely strained at the end. I think, Um,
Speaker 1: I think I held onto that rookie year, you know,
Speaker 1: not starting and not you know, the way he kind
Speaker 1: of um, you know when I talked about earlier about
Speaker 1: how you know he didn't really play me and would
Speaker 1: play me, you know, a couple of minutes here and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I played. I think I took
Speaker 1: that personally for a while, you know, when I was
Speaker 1: younger and kind of held that, um, that grudge, and
Speaker 1: so I think that that affected me a little bit,
Speaker 1: and um, I was definitely a little shit at times,
Speaker 1: a little little prima donna, and so um Also I
Speaker 1: knew how Coach Sloan was, and I think I kind of, um,
Speaker 1: we poked the bear, you know, just to see his
Speaker 1: see his reactions to it. Was kind of like a
Speaker 1: little back and forth thing. And you know ship that
Speaker 1: I definitely wouldn't do now or you know, knowing what
Speaker 1: I know now. UM, but I always respected coach Sloan. UM,
Speaker 1: I learned a lot from him. UM, you know my
Speaker 1: best years were we're definitely in Utah. Um, I definitely
Speaker 1: my best basketball I definitely thrived in his system. And UM,
Speaker 1: you know I got a lot of love and respect
Speaker 1: for for him as a coach and as a person.
Speaker 1: Did you guys have any conversations after your career or
Speaker 1: just kind of once that situation and Utah kind of
Speaker 1: fell away, That's kind of what it was. I ended
Speaker 1: up meeting with him about I think about three two
Speaker 1: and a half years ago, maybe two years ago. UM
Speaker 1: the owner Greg Miller, old owner and and um GM
Speaker 1: got got me to go out there and meet with
Speaker 1: coach Loan and kind of clear the air and uh,
Speaker 1: we're able to talk. But I had always wanted to
Speaker 1: reach out. It's like one of those things where I
Speaker 1: always knew I need to reach out and apologize and
Speaker 1: to feel like, UM just kind of I don't know
Speaker 1: if I was scared or just you know, you just
Speaker 1: was Number one. Coach Sloan's intimidating even as even as
Speaker 1: a grown as a grown man. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: because I was with him when I was so young,
Speaker 1: it's like you always you know, looked at him differently
Speaker 1: and um um. But I was able to talk with him,
Speaker 1: you know. And and this is after he was diagnosed,
Speaker 1: you know, with dementia, and so he was you know,
Speaker 1: definitely um regressing a little bit. And and you know,
Speaker 1: our our conversations were kind of they actually got heated
Speaker 1: a couple of times. Well he got heated a couple
Speaker 1: of times, and it's like almost like he was right back,
Speaker 1: right back in the moment, you know, and I pissed
Speaker 1: him off. I was like, oh, ship, And you know
Speaker 1: Coach Loan, you know, Coach Solana fight you, no question,
Speaker 1: and Coach Slon will fight you. I've seen him. I've
Speaker 1: seen him try to go at Jerry Steakhouse for in
Speaker 1: the game, Like, coach, I don't know if you're gonna
Speaker 1: do that right now. Maybe that ain't the one, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. I was happy I was able to to
Speaker 1: get a chance, um before he passed, to talk with
Speaker 1: him and apologize for you know, being a little ship.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Well I think it's dope. I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: we've all had those moments in our career where in
Speaker 1: the moment it seems like everything, but then when we've
Speaker 1: got either down the line or after we're done, like, damn,
Speaker 1: I definitely could have did this different. I definitely could
Speaker 1: have acted this way different. But to me, it's all
Speaker 1: about growth and maturity. But the only teacher is that experience.
Speaker 1: So in the moment, like you said, you held onto
Speaker 1: that ship from your rookie year because you knew what
Speaker 1: it was. But then at the beginning of the interview
Speaker 1: years just like he was kind of testing my mental
Speaker 1: but at the time you didn't you were thinking about it.
Speaker 1: You're like, funk this dude, man with the funk, I
Speaker 1: should be out here playing. So I think it's dope
Speaker 1: for you know, in any situation, you know, sports, life, relationships,
Speaker 1: but to be able to kind of go back and
Speaker 1: kind of find where you could have did better, you know,
Speaker 1: or or what I could have did different to kind
Speaker 1: of help the situation. I always think that's dope. February
Speaker 1: twenty three, two thousand and eleven, You're traded to New
Speaker 1: Jersey for Devin Harris and Derek Favors first round picks,
Speaker 1: in some cash. How did you find out about it?
Speaker 1: And what was your thought process on leaving the place
Speaker 1: that you grew from a boy to a man and
Speaker 1: and you talk, Yeah, it was tough, and that honestly
Speaker 1: that shaped a lot of like the in the next
Speaker 1: years for me, just because that's it was right after
Speaker 1: the situation had happened with coach Sloan Um and so
Speaker 1: I was getting killed in the media and and and
Speaker 1: all that, and UM, I was in the training room
Speaker 1: in Dallas in the hotel, taping for shoot around and
Speaker 1: we were watching Sports Center. UM, because we're playing Dallas
Speaker 1: that night. I was on back home, you know, got
Speaker 1: like had a whole suite and like twenty other tickets
Speaker 1: to the game, and UM, all of a sudden, it
Speaker 1: pops across the screen because Mello had just been um
Speaker 1: traded to the next And then it was like breaking news,
Speaker 1: Darren Williams traded to the nets. And this is the
Speaker 1: first time I'd even heard my name mentioned in the trade.
Speaker 1: And so I called my agent and I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: this just happened, Like what's going on. He was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is my first time hearing it.
Speaker 1: So he gets on the phone and then called me
Speaker 1: back in like five minutes. He's like, yeah, you're you
Speaker 1: traded and so UM it was like, oh, um, unexpected.
Speaker 1: I had my young my youngest. UM was um my
Speaker 1: my wife at the time was pregnant with my youngest
Speaker 1: She was like seven months pregnant when when this happened.
Speaker 1: So I end up having to pick up go back
Speaker 1: get my stuff from from New York and I mean
Speaker 1: from uh Utah and head to New York. And it
Speaker 1: was a little bit of a shot, you know, because
Speaker 1: I'm going from a team who we made the playoffs
Speaker 1: in each of the four years, and I was going
Speaker 1: to a team who, you know, didn't really have a
Speaker 1: shot at making the playoffs. But you know, UM, I
Speaker 1: just kind of took it as a challenge. Is um
Speaker 1: trying to make him as as good as possible. So
Speaker 1: you go there, You go to a team that not
Speaker 1: really doing anything. You signed a big extension. You're you're
Speaker 1: the next season there. If I'm not mistaken, right, you
Speaker 1: signed a five year near a hundred million dollar deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, uh you guys moved to Brooklyn. Uh jay
Speaker 1: zs in the mix. Um, the win now mentality starts
Speaker 1: taking over what was that transition, like going to Brooklyn
Speaker 1: with this new energy and like you said, at first,
Speaker 1: you didn't have no hope, but then there's actually you know,
Speaker 1: you feel that you see like there's some light at
Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel. Yeah, I mean definitely, they
Speaker 1: definitely had to win now mentality, um, and we're trying
Speaker 1: to do whatever they could to you know, to put
Speaker 1: together a championship team. I think you know, um, that
Speaker 1: was always his goal from from the start when he
Speaker 1: took over the team and kind of had an unlimited
Speaker 1: budget and so you know you saw him spending money
Speaker 1: and doing different things. Um. And you know it was definitely, Uh,
Speaker 1: it was a different buzz when we moved to Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: you know, around the team and you know jay Z
Speaker 1: was there, you know, a lot of games and opened
Speaker 1: up the arena, you know, seven straight concerts. It was
Speaker 1: just a lot of energy in the building, you know,
Speaker 1: something that we we really didn't see in in uh
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, and it was fun. There was rumors,
Speaker 1: was it any truth to uh, the White Hour possibly
Speaker 1: coming and joining you there. Yeah. I mean honestly, I
Speaker 1: thought it was a done deal. Um several times, you know, UM,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what why it didn't work out
Speaker 1: in the end, um, but it would have been I
Speaker 1: think it would have been good for us. Man. That
Speaker 1: would have been scary. That's before that's that's so that did.
Speaker 1: He ended up going to the Lakers shortly after that, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he's stayed like another year and then was
Speaker 1: the Lakers he went to first? Or Rockets? Was it
Speaker 1: the Rockets first? Somewhere? It just was It wasn't the nets?
Speaker 1: Wasn't the net? What was it like? Uh, building chemistry
Speaker 1: and getting a chance to play with Joe Johnson is
Speaker 1: so Joe in a young Brook Lopez? Yeah, I mean, man,
Speaker 1: it was great. We had a lot of talent on
Speaker 1: that team. Um, you know, Uh, Joe was the first
Speaker 1: like two guards that I had ever played with that
Speaker 1: was like a ball, you know, bald domin it great score.
Speaker 1: You know, most of the guys I played with in
Speaker 1: Utah were either shooters, complimentary pieces, you know, defenders, um,
Speaker 1: you know, three and D guys um. And so this
Speaker 1: was my first time playing with with with a guy
Speaker 1: in the backcourt who was you know, you know, on
Speaker 1: the same level as me, and um, you know, it
Speaker 1: was definitely fun playing with Joe, he made the game easy. Uh,
Speaker 1: still getting buckets to this day wherever. I mean, the
Speaker 1: dude was just so strong, so talented, had ice in
Speaker 1: his veins, you know, love that that that uh to
Speaker 1: take the last shot. And then you know, it was
Speaker 1: fun watching Brooke developed too, you know, and and um,
Speaker 1: you know he was young and you know a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of it. Took a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: from the media for his lack of rebounding, but what
Speaker 1: he what he didn't do rebounding he made up for
Speaker 1: and a lot of other things. And he was very talented.
Speaker 1: You know, back to the basket guy and shoot if
Speaker 1: he would have been shooting. I knew he could shoot
Speaker 1: threes back then, but he wasn't doing it because it
Speaker 1: it was it wasn't like that and not not not
Speaker 1: like that, not like it is now. And uh, same
Speaker 1: thing with Paul millsapp when I played with him, he
Speaker 1: could shoot him, but he never did. And uh, but
Speaker 1: I was I was actually happy for Brooke when he
Speaker 1: got one this year. Yeah, that's dope. So what's your mindset?
Speaker 1: Two thousand thirteen, You guys pick up KG and Paul
Speaker 1: Pierce obviously the win now mentally what were your initial
Speaker 1: thoughts hearing that you're getting, you know, two feature Hall
Speaker 1: of Famers. I was excited, you know, and and you
Speaker 1: know it didn't It didn't work out, Um, And that's
Speaker 1: what everybody looks at. But I easily feel like it
Speaker 1: could have worked out just the same. Um. We just
Speaker 1: were hit with injuries. You know, Brooke end up breaking
Speaker 1: his foot and was out most of the season. Um
Speaker 1: Paul had got hurt. I started out the season hurt.
Speaker 1: Injury just kind of hit his KG was. I mean,
Speaker 1: Kg is one of the toughest Dude've ever been around. Man.
Speaker 1: I mean those days where his it's like he was
Speaker 1: dragging his knee, you know, around in practice and you
Speaker 1: have to they have to kick him off the court,
Speaker 1: you know, the trainers had to come out there and
Speaker 1: like physically removed him off the court because he didn't
Speaker 1: want to get off the court. And we'll be and
Speaker 1: we'll be mad, Um, And so it's just it's one
Speaker 1: of those things where we we started off the season terrible.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were like the laughing stock of the
Speaker 1: league for a while and end up um, you know,
Speaker 1: having a great second half of the season, and then
Speaker 1: UM end up losing to Miami team who obviously wouldn't
Speaker 1: won the championship. But you know, I feel like as
Speaker 1: much flak as we got for not not being what
Speaker 1: we should have been, it could have if if if
Speaker 1: the injuries didn't happen the way they did, you know,
Speaker 1: we could have been really really uh. I mean that
Speaker 1: was so that was you at the point, Joe at
Speaker 1: the two, Paul at the three, Kg at the four,
Speaker 1: and Brook at the five. Right, yeah, man, yeah, what
Speaker 1: is I mean? You spoke to Kg's toughness and mentality.
Speaker 1: He's a part of the Showtime family. Now what were
Speaker 1: you remember anything particularly You might have learned from maybe
Speaker 1: those a little bit later in your career, but to
Speaker 1: me being around him, I'm always like a sponge. Anything
Speaker 1: you remember that you kind of learned from KG, it's
Speaker 1: just his I mean, honestly, his work ethic, his work ethic.
Speaker 1: I've been around a lot of a lot of guys
Speaker 1: with with crazy work ethics, and I put his, you know,
Speaker 1: up there with him. You know, and even though he
Speaker 1: was you know older at the time, you know, he
Speaker 1: was older than a lot of the guys who I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. The bronze Um of the world, but his
Speaker 1: work ethic was he was one of the first in
Speaker 1: first last to leave. You know, what you want from
Speaker 1: a leader. You was way by the nest and they
Speaker 1: brought you out. What were you thinking after that? Like
Speaker 1: it was kind of a mutual thing where I thought
Speaker 1: it was time for me to go. Um. I just uh,
Speaker 1: I felt like my time and ran his course there.
Speaker 1: You know, I was dealing with injuries. I wasn't I
Speaker 1: wasn't playing up to my contract, which was you know,
Speaker 1: um not. It's a hard pill to swallow, but but
Speaker 1: it was true. And I just need to kind of
Speaker 1: a fresh start, you know. I kind of at that
Speaker 1: point I started I started really not loving the game,
Speaker 1: you know, um just because you know, it wasn't even
Speaker 1: like everybody thinks so I couldn't handle New York. It
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't that, it wasn't the media. It was
Speaker 1: more the pressure that I put on myself, you know,
Speaker 1: and and um, I had a lot going going on
Speaker 1: in my home life that you know, people don't know
Speaker 1: about or would never know about. And um, and so
Speaker 1: it was just somethinghere. I just needed to change the scenery.
Speaker 1: Um and ended up going to Dallas, back home um
Speaker 1: and kind of found that love for the game. Again,
Speaker 1: touch on this because we had a chance to talk
Speaker 1: to Isaiah Thomas about this and you briefly touched on it.
Speaker 1: But the mental of this game is out of this world.
Speaker 1: I you know, I coached my kids now and I
Speaker 1: tell them, you know, ship everybody could play. What's gonna
Speaker 1: set you far to get you get you to that
Speaker 1: next level is that mental approach. So when you're mental
Speaker 1: is still as strong as it's ever been, but then
Speaker 1: injuries start piling up, Like, how tough is that to
Speaker 1: kind of deal with? Because like you said, it wasn't
Speaker 1: It wasn't SI about the media. Everyone said the New
Speaker 1: York media is tough. If you could hoop, you could hoop.
Speaker 1: But when you're when when your mind is as sharp
Speaker 1: as it's ever been but your body is still not there,
Speaker 1: How tough is that for an elite player like yourself? Well,
Speaker 1: it's tough, man Um. For me, it's like, uh, like
Speaker 1: you said, I I had these injuries and they just
Speaker 1: it just kept happying, just like a little nagging. That's
Speaker 1: like I didn't I never had the you know, tear
Speaker 1: the A C L and have to come back. It
Speaker 1: was just always like I had the chronic ankle sprains
Speaker 1: and my ankles were swelling up the size of softballs.
Speaker 1: At night, I could really walk up the stairs, and
Speaker 1: then I would go to do a layup, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not even getting any left on my on my
Speaker 1: on my layups. I can't get to spots where I'm
Speaker 1: normally you know, used to getting to. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of like you get that self doubt once, that self
Speaker 1: doubt preas in you know, um, it's something that I
Speaker 1: never really had. I had always been able to all Right,
Speaker 1: I had a bad game, I'm gonna shake it off.
Speaker 1: But these these games, you know, started piling up and
Speaker 1: started messing with you. And then I remember, I remember
Speaker 1: when I was in New York when d Rose was
Speaker 1: going through his stuff and he, you know, thought about
Speaker 1: walking away from the game. And I had already had
Speaker 1: that thought, you know, several times where it's like, man, like,
Speaker 1: my my mentor is so messed up that I was
Speaker 1: just like, is it even worked it anymore? I'll walk
Speaker 1: away right now. They can have the money. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't care, um, And so you know that that
Speaker 1: stuff kind of started setting in, and so when when
Speaker 1: we came up with the resolution of the buyout, I
Speaker 1: was kind of I was. I was excited because, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gave up some money, but I just needed a
Speaker 1: I needed a fresh start. I needed a different, different perspective.
Speaker 1: So you landed Dallas. UM talked to us. You're back
Speaker 1: home now, you said, you find that you find the
Speaker 1: love for the game again. Um, what what was it
Speaker 1: like being in Maverick? That was great? You know. Um,
Speaker 1: I enjoyed planning, playing in Dallas. I enjoyed playing for
Speaker 1: for Cubes and and playing with Dirt. You know, Dirk
Speaker 1: is Is. You know, he's a good one. He's a
Speaker 1: great one. Great dude. UM couldn't play with um, you know,
Speaker 1: all the guys, just a great group of guys there,
Speaker 1: and UM, you know, I started to fall in love
Speaker 1: with the game again. But at the same time, I
Speaker 1: still was was getting these injuries, these nagging injuries. UM,
Speaker 1: that kept me from you know, being who I was.
Speaker 1: February twenty seventeen, you signed with the Calves, got a
Speaker 1: chance to play with the game Lebron James. What was that?
Speaker 1: What was that experience like? It was great? I mean
Speaker 1: I had played with with Lebron and two Olympics and
Speaker 1: so um, you know, of course I knew him and
Speaker 1: and knew what he brought to the table. Um, and
Speaker 1: it was great. Man. Um, when I talk about work
Speaker 1: ethics there, besides Kobe being around him in the Olympics,
Speaker 1: I mean, Lebron has has the best work ethic that
Speaker 1: I've ever been around. And then his mind, his basketball
Speaker 1: mind is unbelievable. You know, I consider myself, you know,
Speaker 1: a pretty smart human when it comes to the game
Speaker 1: of basketball and seeing things and understanding things. But his
Speaker 1: his mind works differently. And I've seen people talking here,
Speaker 1: I've heard people talk about it and seeing people talk
Speaker 1: about it on TV. But until you were actually, you know,
Speaker 1: there with him day in and day out, going over
Speaker 1: game plans, um, seeing him call out all the teams plays.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just on another level. The way he's prepared,
Speaker 1: how he prepares himself, and um, it's what makes him
Speaker 1: so good, not not only the physical gifts he has,
Speaker 1: but you know, his his mental approach to the game
Speaker 1: as well. Have you ever, I'm sure you have, But
Speaker 1: what it thought it? What it would it would have
Speaker 1: been like you and your prime getting a chance to
Speaker 1: play with that team and what kind of trouble you
Speaker 1: guys would have cost for for sure? I mean, um yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it definitely did. Um, And it was that
Speaker 1: was a tough situation for me because I came, I
Speaker 1: came in and fed worry, you know, over halfway through
Speaker 1: the season, and of course Kyrie is there, um and
Speaker 1: so you know, my my minutes we were very limited,
Speaker 1: and I'm in a role that I had never played before.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm used to having the ball in my hands.
Speaker 1: I'm used to making things happen. And there I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I was either running you know, pick and
Speaker 1: roll every now and then, or I was you know,
Speaker 1: spotting up in the corner. And um, so I didn't
Speaker 1: have the greatest you know impact, especially in the finals.
Speaker 1: I had you know, pretty shitty finals. But even that,
Speaker 1: I wish, not even being in my prime, just wishing
Speaker 1: I had a whole season to play that role too,
Speaker 1: to learn how to to force in that role, you know,
Speaker 1: to get confident with just you know, being able to
Speaker 1: come in and knock down shots. You know. Um, you
Speaker 1: know you guys know those those you know, you came
Speaker 1: off the bench a lot. It's tough. It's tough to
Speaker 1: to sit over there for twenty five minutes and then
Speaker 1: come in the game and you got to hit you know,
Speaker 1: shot when it's thrown to you, or you might not
Speaker 1: get another you might not get enough a shot. And
Speaker 1: that's what it depends on, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So to me, like you said, it was easy for me,
Speaker 1: you know, starting and then going to the bench, but
Speaker 1: knowing that, you know, kind of my job was to
Speaker 1: do that. But you're like, again, you're someone who has
Speaker 1: had the ball in his hands his whole career, making
Speaker 1: plays and then being able to get your own when
Speaker 1: you want. So when you're coming into a situation like
Speaker 1: that with two superstars already great team, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like, damn, at the end of
Speaker 1: that season, you guys lose to Golden State. Um, did
Speaker 1: you know right then it was time? No? UM, I
Speaker 1: think I was a little discouraged just because of of
Speaker 1: the role I had, and um again, I had a
Speaker 1: lot going on in my personal life that I just
Speaker 1: felt like, Um, between my all the injuries, it's like
Speaker 1: I felt like I I felt like I was at
Speaker 1: the point where I couldn't make it through a season
Speaker 1: without getting hurt. And I didn't know mentally if I
Speaker 1: could take that anymore. You know, just the impact that
Speaker 1: had on me. Um. And so I feel like me
Speaker 1: stepping away from the game was more you know, mental
Speaker 1: mentally for me than anything, just because of the place
Speaker 1: I was at mentally, and I felt like it was
Speaker 1: it was the best thing to do. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: of that member of the USA to two eight Olympics
Speaker 1: when I'm beating on the way to winning back to
Speaker 1: the gold medal after defeating Spain and living up to
Speaker 1: the redeemed team, what was that experience? Like, it's incredible,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I think I was only like twenty
Speaker 1: four at the time. So um, you know, for me
Speaker 1: to be able to be on that team, UM with
Speaker 1: with guys who I grew up watching, like Jason Kidd
Speaker 1: and you know, team up with Lebron and Mellow CP
Speaker 1: and d Wade and those guys, Um, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You know. We had a lot of we had a
Speaker 1: lot of expectations, um, because it was it was you know,
Speaker 1: it's been a while since the you know, USA took
Speaker 1: gold home and so there was a lot of pressure
Speaker 1: on us. But at the same time, we felt like
Speaker 1: we had the best team, you know, UM, hands down
Speaker 1: and UM put a lot of pressure on ourselves and
Speaker 1: and coach k did a great job with coaching us UM.
Speaker 1: But but that experience is one it's probably my I mean,
Speaker 1: both those gold medals were um, you know, uh meant
Speaker 1: a lot to me. But but that first one, getting
Speaker 1: that first one and being the redeem team, I think
Speaker 1: that meant a lot and definitely my best moment as
Speaker 1: as a basketball player. What's the backstory on the vibe
Speaker 1: Vibe Vito that came out you and Boston beating Hamburgers
Speaker 1: at the gas station. I don't even remember, honestly though,
Speaker 1: I don't know who took the video, Probably the way
Speaker 1: because he always had a camera on him. He stayed
Speaker 1: with the video video camera the whole the whole trip.
Speaker 1: And I heard he has a maybe a documentary coming
Speaker 1: out from that trip, so hopefully that that comes out.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was just I guess a little were
Speaker 1: we stopped at like a gas station, um, somewhere to
Speaker 1: get food. We're on a little road trip, and got food,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, that video keeps keeps popping
Speaker 1: up at every keep keeps circulating every every couple, couple,
Speaker 1: of months. So you guys ran it back in two
Speaker 1: thousand and twelve. Um, obviously the games are fun, you guys,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure. But what is it like
Speaker 1: on your downtime. I'm sure that that that's the time
Speaker 1: where it's it's fun, it's jokes, it's ship talking, it's
Speaker 1: it's reminiscing any dope stories off the court from those
Speaker 1: teams either oh eight or two thousand and twelve. Honestly,
Speaker 1: like the the most the most fun thing about you know,
Speaker 1: all these trips are the stuff we did, you know,
Speaker 1: um off the court. Um. You know, we had great meals,
Speaker 1: We had great, great card games for a little bit
Speaker 1: of cash, a little little bourey, little guts um. Now.
Speaker 1: I remember I remember going through Spain. We were in
Speaker 1: Barcelona before the London Olympics. It was like me, James,
Speaker 1: Katie and somebody else and we were riding segways just
Speaker 1: through Barcelona. It's all on the down the boardwalk, on
Speaker 1: the beach, you know, just things like that man just
Speaker 1: just kicking it off the court, um, you know, is
Speaker 1: some of the best moments I have from from both
Speaker 1: of those experiences. How challenging were those practices when you
Speaker 1: guys had your inner squads. They're unbelievable. Um, I mean
Speaker 1: you got you got fifteen of the most competitive dudes
Speaker 1: in the world, or twelve. I guess we only had
Speaker 1: twelve people, but twelve twelve were the most competitive dudes
Speaker 1: in the world. You know, on one court. So of course,
Speaker 1: you know, being led by by by Kobe and Lebron,
Speaker 1: you know, those practices are gonna be intense. You know
Speaker 1: how coach k is. You've you've heard how coach k
Speaker 1: is as a coach, and so man, it's it's you.
Speaker 1: The practices were amazing. The shooting games after after practice
Speaker 1: were competitive. I mean there was there wasn't nothing we
Speaker 1: didn't compete in when we were when we were together.
Speaker 1: I mean that's just fast. Mm hmmm. So transitioning to
Speaker 1: post career managing multiple businesses, but one thing I thought
Speaker 1: was dope that you own an m m A gym.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge m m A fan. You own a gym?
Speaker 1: You just sparring yourself. Obviously you had an early love
Speaker 1: with wrestling for your mom, But where did your love
Speaker 1: from mm A come from? Well, that's kind of bit.
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like, I mean I've been a
Speaker 1: fan of mm A for forever, you know, and I
Speaker 1: think I kind of gravitated towards it because of my
Speaker 1: wrestling background and you know how big of a part
Speaker 1: that plays in M m A and so, um, I've
Speaker 1: always been a fan and I've been training for you know,
Speaker 1: about eight eight nine years. Um. It's always a good,
Speaker 1: great way to stay in shape. And once I once
Speaker 1: I stopped playing basketball, I picked up my training. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I was training probably you know, four or
Speaker 1: five times a week for a while, but just kept
Speaker 1: getting hurt saying it, say it was a basketball court.
Speaker 1: But I gotta I gotta tell myself, I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not twenty three anymore. Um, But I just I just
Speaker 1: love the sport. Um. I love watching it, I love
Speaker 1: participating in it. And then you know, we have a
Speaker 1: bunch of men and women at our gym that are
Speaker 1: that are fighting in the UFC, and so UH enjoy supporting.
Speaker 1: Now that's what's up. I'll talk kind of the current
Speaker 1: landscape and how boxing him M m A are kind
Speaker 1: of colliding now for these whether you want to call
Speaker 1: them influencer fights or whatever you want to call him.
Speaker 1: But you know, the t Woodley's and Nate Robinson, the
Speaker 1: Jake Paul Way, the Logan Paul Way. What are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on kind of m m A intersecting with boxing.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, you know, because there's a there's
Speaker 1: a lot of back and forth going on between you know,
Speaker 1: boxers and mixed martial artists. Um. And and for the
Speaker 1: most part, you know, a boxer is gonna win a
Speaker 1: boxing match against the m m A guy, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just facts. Um. At the same time, if you
Speaker 1: put a boxer in the m m A uh cage,
Speaker 1: they're not They're not going to survive, you know. And
Speaker 1: so UM, I think it's interesting to see where it goes.
Speaker 1: I think it's just the beginning of it. And now
Speaker 1: you have, like you said, you have these celebrity you know,
Speaker 1: boxing matches and things of that nature that are catching on.
Speaker 1: And you know, as goofy as you might think they are,
Speaker 1: as stupid as you might think they are, people tune in,
Speaker 1: people watch it. I know I watched it. I certainly
Speaker 1: watched it. I would love to do one, y'all. Y'all
Speaker 1: find me opponent you because there they're fun, man, I
Speaker 1: think it it so it all brings notoriety to the
Speaker 1: sports you know, and and and brings attention to it
Speaker 1: and brings press and like like like you guys know
Speaker 1: all press is good press, tell us and tell us not.
Speaker 1: So what's the biggest difference between today's game and when
Speaker 1: you win your prime? You feel I would have loved
Speaker 1: to playing today's game, Like in my prime, I can't
Speaker 1: touch you wide open court, man, I mean, but just
Speaker 1: it's the it's the it's the confidence, you know. I've
Speaker 1: talked about it before, Like I played for an old
Speaker 1: school coach. Coach Sloan hated early shots he did, and
Speaker 1: I could get away with more than than most people.
Speaker 1: I think, oh my, you know on my team for sure,
Speaker 1: where I could come down in the five if I
Speaker 1: saw early three, I could take it. But if I miss,
Speaker 1: you know, two of them in a row, he wouldn't
Speaker 1: be happy. And now today, like those are all good shots,
Speaker 1: and these guys just have they have the utmost confidence
Speaker 1: to do anything out there. And so when you have that,
Speaker 1: when you have that confidence that you can take no
Speaker 1: matter what shot you shoot, you know, it's a good shot,
Speaker 1: that opens up a whole whole new can of worms.
Speaker 1: M hear that, who are some of the point guards
Speaker 1: and players, uh, you know outside of the Lebronze that
Speaker 1: that that you enjoy following these days, I mean shifts everybody.
Speaker 1: I still love watching Steph Dame. Um. I like that
Speaker 1: that young kid job Morant. I think he's gonna be special.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna be, you know, really special. Um LaMelo.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna be gonna be good. Um. But
Speaker 1: it's I mean it's the same as as when I
Speaker 1: was in the league. I mean the point guard position.
Speaker 1: You go around the league, there's not a yeah, there's
Speaker 1: not a point guard where you're you're like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: maybe one or two where you're like, oh, they shouldn't
Speaker 1: be starting or they're not a starting point guard. For
Speaker 1: the most part, everybody's a dog. Everybody's a dog. Anybody
Speaker 1: out there you see yourself to see that you reminds
Speaker 1: of a young d will mm hmm. Everybody says, friend
Speaker 1: Van Fleet, y'all just look alike, he ain't big enough,
Speaker 1: he ain't big enough, tall enough. You know. I feel
Speaker 1: like it's shifted. I mean that's that's the biggest thing,
Speaker 1: is the prototypical point guard. When I was you know,
Speaker 1: that big point guard is kind of it's kind of
Speaker 1: gone away. You know, it's more about you know, being quicker,
Speaker 1: more athletic. You know, there's not the post up game.
Speaker 1: Isn't it as as prevalent as it was when I
Speaker 1: was playing, And so it's just a different game. It's
Speaker 1: a different game. We're gonna put you on the spot
Speaker 1: right here. Still we're still obviously you haven't even started
Speaker 1: training camp is around the corner if that hasn't started already. Uh,
Speaker 1: your East in your West picks saying that all teams
Speaker 1: stay healthy, which probably will happen. But if everyone stays healthy,
Speaker 1: who do you got coming out of the East and
Speaker 1: you got coming out of the West. That's that's a
Speaker 1: no brainer. That's no The Lakers in the in the nets,
Speaker 1: right and who do you like it? Like? If it
Speaker 1: goes down seven games, who you got if they're if
Speaker 1: they're all healthy, that's against against the next in lines.
Speaker 1: I feel like I can't I could. It's like betting
Speaker 1: against Brady. You can't bet against Brady and I can't
Speaker 1: bet against Lebron. Very true, even though it's tough because
Speaker 1: you get a healthy Katie man, they're loaded healthy Katie,
Speaker 1: healthy Kyrie healthy James. Offensively, they're bad offensively better but
Speaker 1: I think defensively and I know how, I know how
Speaker 1: Lebron locks in them. Yeah, I'm going Lakers because he's
Speaker 1: in the playoff. Who y'all got I mean, I'm really
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. You mean to me, it's
Speaker 1: obviously health, it's going to be important. It's very hard
Speaker 1: to go against Lebron. But then again, it's very hard
Speaker 1: to go against a healthy Brooklyn Nets team. And if
Speaker 1: Kyrie is locked in and James is getting on all cylinders,
Speaker 1: man like, that's the best offensive treer I think we've
Speaker 1: ever seen in the history of basketball, hands down. So
Speaker 1: and what's and what's the scariest thinking about all both
Speaker 1: these teams now is none of these teams are called
Speaker 1: coming together mid season. They're getting training camp together. So
Speaker 1: it's gonna be scary to see how how these teams
Speaker 1: come out from the jump. If you had to choose
Speaker 1: one dark horse, a dark horse, who would you have,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say the Warriors. I'm not mad at that.
Speaker 1: I'm not mad at I mean, if Clay is healthy,
Speaker 1: if if if Steph is I mean, you see what
Speaker 1: he was doing towards the end of last year. Um,
Speaker 1: you gotta you can't forget a about them, and they're
Speaker 1: gonna make a trade. Wise, they're gonna make a trade.
Speaker 1: I'll just but I think they'll make a mid season
Speaker 1: or trade deadline move to to put them right in position.
Speaker 1: Who's going to Wiggins? Wiggins? Who knows? Who knows? It
Speaker 1: depends on what you get back. I mean they they
Speaker 1: got a lot of pieces too, good young pieces, which
Speaker 1: is gonna help them if they really make a move.
Speaker 1: But been a doe pass interview, we're down to quick hitters. Man,
Speaker 1: first thing that comes to your mind, spit it out.
Speaker 1: Toughest player matchup in your career? M hm ah or
Speaker 1: not even I wouldn't even say tough is. Maybe favorite
Speaker 1: is early in my career with Sam Cassell. People don't
Speaker 1: know how cold saying was. Man, Man, they don't. I
Speaker 1: used to have so many problems with him in the post.
Speaker 1: He was so crafty. Even though you were bigger and stronger,
Speaker 1: he still got that work in the post. And we'll
Speaker 1: talk to you the whole time. Oh school, y'all, fella, y'all, fellow.
Speaker 1: Top five point guards of all time? Oh oh jesus, wow,
Speaker 1: magic mm hmmm, Oscar Robinson, Okay, John Stockton, m oh geez, dang,
Speaker 1: this is tough. Mm hmmm. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say,
Speaker 1: Steph put you on the spot. It's all the smart
Speaker 1: there's one. It's like, all my I can't even think
Speaker 1: right now. I don't like this. Um, this is the
Speaker 1: something you're supposed to tell. Yes, Jakid, we put Jakid? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta go. I'm like, why can't I Why can't
Speaker 1: I think? Right now? I just gotta be ja kids
Speaker 1: favorite album of all time, no skips. You could listen
Speaker 1: from front to back All eyes on me. Nice classic. Yes. Indeed,
Speaker 1: if you can sit course side to any game in history,
Speaker 1: what game would it be? Oh? Oh, I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: the Finals game? Were Ray hit that that three in
Speaker 1: the corner in Miami in Miami against the first Because
Speaker 1: that's all what I can think of right now? Yeah?
Speaker 1: All right, Next up, you plus four of your current
Speaker 1: teammates throughout your career, plus a six man to build
Speaker 1: a super team. Who would you who? Who would you
Speaker 1: pick from your career that you've played with? These are
Speaker 1: these are prime? Yeah? Yeah, they're all in their prime
Speaker 1: and you're the point guard. Well that damn I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say me. Um, Joe, KG, Dirk, that's five. You're forgetting
Speaker 1: one and booze. You left Braun off? Oh shoot, I
Speaker 1: forgot I always playing with him for like five months.
Speaker 1: That's why I ain't thinking. I'm thinking of like I'm thinking.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, now you feel the guys you really went
Speaker 1: in with. I feel that. Yeah, like who I was
Speaker 1: like playing with Braun is definitely there. And then um,
Speaker 1: can I get seven because IM gonna put Kyrie on
Speaker 1: there too? Yeah? There you go. So so so you KG,
Speaker 1: Paul Pierce, Joe, Dirk, Lebron and kyr Rouf. That's a
Speaker 1: mob Elevate team. Last question and your answer to this question,
Speaker 1: just remember you have to help us with your answer.
Speaker 1: Who do you want to see on all the smoke?
Speaker 1: Oh guys, have your hat on. We only had nine.
Speaker 1: We won't have one who Woodley t Woodeny Connor will
Speaker 1: be fun. So it's crazy. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can help you out with that one. So it's crazy. Hey,
Speaker 1: so I've been working on some My motherfucking college roommate
Speaker 1: who played football U c l A shoutout audioitar As
Speaker 1: his manager. So I've been on this motherfucker like, man,
Speaker 1: let's get it. But it's always kind of round his
Speaker 1: fights and then you know, he's kind of been on
Speaker 1: a on a on a downwards. Who just I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's good. I don't know if it's good.
Speaker 1: But I've been working on Connor for a minute, man,
Speaker 1: so hopefully we're able to get him. Yeah, but y'all
Speaker 1: bring it, y'all bring in full circle. So it's like
Speaker 1: you know about touch every Yeah, you touch everything, so
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, for sure, all right man with d
Speaker 1: we appreciate your time. Great catching up with you with
Speaker 1: a big fanning while you play man and the glad
Speaker 1: you took some time to join us. Best of luck
Speaker 1: with the fam business. That's a wrap all the smoke
Speaker 1: season three. Man, we're here you castes on Showtime Basketball,
Speaker 1: YouTube and the I Heart Platform Black Effects. We'll see
Speaker 1: y'all next week. He appreciate you. Appreciate you, bro,