WEBVTT - Author and Journalist Alison Kosik Talks Gender Equality

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Researchers from McKinsey recently

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<v Speaker 1>determined that women spend less time on the job than

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<v Speaker 1>men in comparable roles in career paths eight point six

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<v Speaker 1>years for women versus ten years for men, and that

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<v Speaker 1>they were more likely to make decisions putting them in

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<v Speaker 1>roles in industries that were dying. Gosh, it's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>it's really grim. Yeah, large career gaps, especially during child

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<v Speaker 1>rearing years, and the desire for more flexible work took

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<v Speaker 1>a toll. Listen to this, Carol. Such time and career choices,

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<v Speaker 1>they said, docked women's lifetime pay by a cool half

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Women, they urged, need to choose careers in fast grown

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<v Speaker 1>fields and spend more time on the job.

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<v Speaker 3>Rap.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a strong message. I mean, that's a big difference.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you think about people living longer and like

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<v Speaker 2>maybe on their own, like how do you support yourself?

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<v Speaker 1>Simone Foxman writing about this for Blueberg News, check out

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<v Speaker 1>that story and more if you're interested.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, curious what Alison Kassik has to say about

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<v Speaker 2>all of this. She's the author and journalist who has

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<v Speaker 2>worked at CNN and is a freelance correspondent for ABC News.

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<v Speaker 2>Equal Page just one of the things she tackles in

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<v Speaker 2>her deeply personal new book. It's entitled What's Up with

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<v Speaker 2>Women and Money? How to do all the financial stuff

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<v Speaker 2>You've been avoiding. She joins us from Long Island. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we've been talking about your book, and you know very

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<v Speaker 2>deeply personal your story. You go there right in the

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<v Speaker 2>beginning of the book. Tell us about and share with

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<v Speaker 2>our audience why you said about writing this.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, great to be on your show, Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 3>So I wrote this because yes, I was CNN's business correspondent,

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<v Speaker 3>often reporting from the New York Stock Exchange. But at

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<v Speaker 3>the beginning of my time there, I wasn't involved in

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<v Speaker 3>my own financial life. I let my husband handle all

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<v Speaker 3>things financial, and that was That was not a good

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<v Speaker 3>decision because when the marriage went't bad, when you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I wanted to get out of the marriage, I felt stuck.

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<v Speaker 3>I stayed in the marriage longer than I should have,

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<v Speaker 3>years longer than I should have, because he kind and

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<v Speaker 3>knew where all the money was and how to handle

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<v Speaker 3>all the money things. And I had two kids under

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<v Speaker 3>the age of ten. At the time. You know, what

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<v Speaker 3>if I made a mistake, what if I lost all

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<v Speaker 3>of our money? The difference is is that I just

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<v Speaker 3>didn't have the confidence to make those big financial decisions.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't have the experience of making the decisions over

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<v Speaker 3>the course of my marriage, and that in essence cut

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<v Speaker 3>down on my confidence in my ability to make those decisions.

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<v Speaker 3>But as I got through that, I realized that there

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<v Speaker 3>are a lot of women, different kinds of jobs, high

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<v Speaker 3>income scale to low income scale, married, divorced, widowed, single,

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<v Speaker 3>who feel the way I felt that. You know, they

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<v Speaker 3>don't have any kind of involvement or as much involvement

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<v Speaker 3>as they should have in their own financial lives. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's not something that women talk about because, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we don't want to be seen as unintelligent. There's also

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of embarrassment and shame around it as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do you think men are the ones who end

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<v Speaker 1>up doing this stuff in a lot of relationships? Like

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<v Speaker 1>you have a chapter in here on how to buy

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<v Speaker 1>a car with confidence, understanding insurance, negotiating in your words

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<v Speaker 1>like a man. Why do men? Why are men the

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<v Speaker 1>ones who usually do this in relationships?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I think if I could answer that in

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<v Speaker 3>one reason only, there are I think there are many reasons,

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<v Speaker 3>but I think the biggest reason is that it is cultural.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a cultural aspect that women have with money, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think it starts early when we are girls, and

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<v Speaker 3>whether we like it or not, girls and boys are

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<v Speaker 3>socialized differently. And it's not that girls are told not

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<v Speaker 3>to care about money. It's just that boys are often

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<v Speaker 3>introduced to the family finances earlier, They're encouraged to be

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<v Speaker 3>financially independent earlier, and so you've got these girls who

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<v Speaker 3>grow up being uninvolved, and they can grow up to

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<v Speaker 3>be women who avoid money issues, and that avoidance can

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<v Speaker 3>be compounding in the way that you avoid something long enough,

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<v Speaker 3>you become fearful of it. And so lack of interest

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<v Speaker 3>can lead to a lack of information, and that lack

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<v Speaker 3>of information can lead to a lack of confidence in

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<v Speaker 3>being able to manage all things financial, you know, whether

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<v Speaker 3>it's managing your spending, managing your debt, being able to invest,

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<v Speaker 3>and being able to negotiate your salary. All of that

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<v Speaker 3>hits confidence. And I think I think if I'm going

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<v Speaker 3>to answer it in one answer only, I'd say it's

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<v Speaker 3>the culture. It's got to be the culture.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, it's it's it's interesting. Carol mentioned this

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<v Speaker 1>is a deeply personal book, and I mean it really is.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not just you don't. You don't just talk about

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<v Speaker 1>your relationship and your marriage that prompted you to write this,

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<v Speaker 1>but also your upbringing and your relationship with your father.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think a lot of people would say that

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<v Speaker 1>that was really challenging. I'm wondering, though, as a parent now,

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<v Speaker 1>how you make sure that your kids are equipped to

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<v Speaker 1>make these decisions independently.

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<v Speaker 3>Very good question. I'm not a perfect parent, and I've

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<v Speaker 3>got two kids once nineteen, my son is nineteen, my

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<v Speaker 3>daughter is twenty two. They are invested in the market. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>I've taught them how to do it, and I've encouraged

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<v Speaker 3>them to consistently invest as much as they can. I've

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<v Speaker 3>explained to them the difference between savings and investments and

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<v Speaker 3>what the difference is, and why it's important to invest

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<v Speaker 3>your way to wealth because you can't save your way

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<v Speaker 3>to wealth. You know. The thing is these things are

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<v Speaker 3>not taught in school, so there's only so much parents

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<v Speaker 3>can do. And really, I think so much of this

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<v Speaker 3>is is really just taking the effort to learn it

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<v Speaker 3>on your own or through osmosis, or hopefully you've got

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<v Speaker 3>parents to guide you. I'm certainly trying to guide my

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<v Speaker 3>kids as much as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's interesting, Allison. We talk about this a

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<v Speaker 2>lot here, and I feel like you've obviously you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you're a journalist, and I know this topic has come

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<v Speaker 2>up over the years, and I would say for those

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<v Speaker 2>of us who've been doing it for a while, just

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<v Speaker 2>like yourself, I feel like I could go back ten

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<v Speaker 2>years and have this conversation. Twenty years, I could have

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<v Speaker 2>this conversation. I think about CEOs, female CEOs who've come

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<v Speaker 2>in and talked about even that in their households to

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<v Speaker 2>some extent. So I'm wondering, you know, why haven't we

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<v Speaker 2>we've talked about financial literacy forever. Why isn't that happening?

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<v Speaker 2>What is it that we are missing? Because you can

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<v Speaker 2>teach stuff at home, right, But I wonder if we

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<v Speaker 2>made it part of our curriculum from kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>younger age, teaching kids about money, the importance of money

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<v Speaker 2>and all that good stuff, how different things might be.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I am one hundred percent with you, and to

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<v Speaker 3>be honest with you, I don't know why this stuff

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<v Speaker 3>isn't really being taught, and I think it's actually beginning

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<v Speaker 3>to be taught. It's being thrown into the curriculum. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know how much really, And I'm wondering if maturity

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<v Speaker 3>has a lot to do with it, because can you

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<v Speaker 3>imagine getting into all the finer details of investing with

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<v Speaker 3>a fifteen sixteen year old there's all I think there's

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<v Speaker 3>also maybe a mindset here of younger of younger people.

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<v Speaker 3>I know when I was younger, and it may have

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<v Speaker 3>just been because we didn't have access to investment platforms

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<v Speaker 3>like we do today. Right in fractionally investing, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I think that I think that you think that you

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<v Speaker 3>have got, you know, fifteen years old. Let's say they

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<v Speaker 3>bring it into the schools at fifteen the curriculum at

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<v Speaker 3>fifteen years old, you'll pay attention. But I guess how

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<v Speaker 3>seriously will the kid take it because they think they've

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<v Speaker 3>got forever to start investing. And I think unless the

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<v Speaker 3>curriculum really hits home about the importance of investing early

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<v Speaker 3>and consistently, but investing early, maybe then it'll catch on.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think you make a really good point, and

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<v Speaker 3>I did. I did write this book through a journalist's lens.

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<v Speaker 3>So not only did I get the tips and tools

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<v Speaker 3>of financial literacy, I wanted to tell stories, so not

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<v Speaker 3>just inspirational ones through the celebrities that I interviewed, but

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<v Speaker 3>also names you wouldn't recognize a lot of these people.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of these women are anonymous because they are

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<v Speaker 3>ashamed that they're in this situation. So I, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>I interviewed a venture capitalist who who described money as

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<v Speaker 3>something that she was fearful of. And she at fifty

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<v Speaker 3>three years old, she hadn't invested in one retirement account,

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<v Speaker 3>didn't know the basics of personal financing, and and really

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<v Speaker 3>was felt overwhelmed. And this is a woman in venture capital,

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<v Speaker 3>in the venture capital space who was highly highly successful,

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<v Speaker 3>but she had not invested in herself because she didn't

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<v Speaker 3>have the confidence. I mean, it is really amazing that

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<v Speaker 3>we can we can be badasses at our jobs, but

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<v Speaker 3>then in our own life there's this disconnect that's really inexplicable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I guess what I would say in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of I agree with you, like a teenager, they're going

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<v Speaker 2>to be like yo, you know investing, you know, Warren Buffett,

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<v Speaker 2>like all that stuff might go past, but just the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of debt versus not debt savings versus, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of those kinds of things are like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you even talk I love this idea. I think I

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<v Speaker 2>even remember my parents like having an envelope in the

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<v Speaker 2>drawer of cash that was like the cash for the

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<v Speaker 2>month or something. And we don't really do that anymore, right,

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<v Speaker 2>everything's digital, but having that concept of like a digital

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<v Speaker 2>envelope of this money is my spending money, this is

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<v Speaker 2>my savings money. Like, those concepts are really clean and

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<v Speaker 2>pure and I think make a lot of sense. And

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<v Speaker 2>I do think about even today of giving a kid

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<v Speaker 2>and saying, here's some spending money. That's it. You've got

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<v Speaker 2>it for the month, figure it out, Like that's teaching

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<v Speaker 2>them to budget.

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<v Speaker 3>Right right and getting them involved. And as parents, you

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<v Speaker 3>know your kids are watching you. They're watching if you're

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<v Speaker 3>piling on dead onto your credit cards, they're watching you

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<v Speaker 3>know how you shop around for things if you broke,

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<v Speaker 3>if the refrigerator's broken, do you just buy whatever? Or

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<v Speaker 3>are you taking them with you to go shop around

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<v Speaker 3>and get the or at least online to shop around

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<v Speaker 3>and get the cheapest price. You know, I think involving

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<v Speaker 3>children in money details is really a first step. It

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<v Speaker 3>seems so simplistic, but it really is a way to

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<v Speaker 3>get them involved.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, we have been talking about your book in the

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<v Speaker 2>newsroom and you coming on, and I have a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of questions, actually from one of my producers. We only

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<v Speaker 2>have time for one. We only have about a minute

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<v Speaker 2>left here. But if you've got two four oh one

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<v Speaker 2>K plans from different employers, how do you determine whether

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<v Speaker 2>to merge it or just leave it alone.

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<v Speaker 3>I've been told, I've been told to merge them, but

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<v Speaker 3>you're asking the wrong person. I'm not a certified financial planner.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't even I can't even give you financial advice. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>that is not my realm. I So, like I said,

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<v Speaker 3>I approached this book as a journalist. I did research

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<v Speaker 3>and interviews to get these to get these topics on paper.

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<v Speaker 3>And yeah, they'll have to go talk to their at CFP.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, that's fair.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually good advice.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually that's great advice. And she's a journalist too, and

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<v Speaker 2>I know she'll end up doing research. Thirty seconds left here.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot in the book. It's very usable, it's

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<v Speaker 2>really fun. What's one piece of advice you want to

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<v Speaker 2>leave our audience with just quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>Ladies, be involved in all things finel in your house.

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<v Speaker 3>Have great visibility onto what's happening. Know what your assets are,

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<v Speaker 3>know your debt, know who your beneficiaries are on your accounts,

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<v Speaker 3>know the passwords to your accounts, and especially know how

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<v Speaker 3>much debt you are caring and get involved in the

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<v Speaker 3>tax process as well. It's so as we're nearing tax

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<v Speaker 3>time here, be involved in filing your taxes.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, really fine, good luck with everything. Alison Kassick

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<v Speaker 2>joining us her new book, What's Up with Women and Money?

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<v Speaker 2>How to do all the financial stuff you've been avoiding,

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<v Speaker 2>Joining us from Long Island,