WEBVTT - Dave Mason 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.080 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Side Podcast. 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.560 My guest today is the truly legendary Dave Mason, and 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.119 that star, as I say, rock Dave's bucks. We really 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.520 have the rock and roll lifestyle here. Okay, So Dave, 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.600 how long is this tour? Uh? This is well, it's 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.960 only been about let's see, it ends on the of 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.760 the month October. I've really done a lot this year. 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:41.320 How much? Um? Some in January early in the year. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.040 I think it was January February early in the year, 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.000 and then um, and then the first actually, the first 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.080 part of it was the my which he was a 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.360 continuation from the previous year, which was my Rock and 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.600 Soul review with me and Steve Cropper. How do you 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.440 know Steve Cropper? Oh? I met Kropp a long time 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.399 ago here in l A. Really so this is after 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.160 he paid his dues in Memphis, I guess. So. Um. 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.480 I mean, you know I've been a fan since I 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.640 was eighteen nineteen years old. Well, it's funny. He's such 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.240 a big guy. You think of a studio guy, and 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:23.280 he looks like I could play basketball. Um, it's great. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.039 It was a great show. So who else was in 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.560 the band for how many players did with my with 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:32.400 my band okay, and just with Steve with Steve my band. 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:37.280 And also we had um a girl from Maui, uh, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.720 Gretchen Rhodes who was part of it. Now some of 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.280 the time you live in Maui? Is that how you 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.360 met her? Yeah? Okay, let's go back a few years. 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:50.440 Whose decision was it to have the Pizza album the 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:55.640 first alone together where it was multi colored? Um, well, 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.560 basically was supposed to come out like a sunburst. Oh really, 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:05.280 but there was no controlling the colors in the press, so, um, 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.000 every one of them, we just came out different. And 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:14.239 whose decision was to do that? Though? Um, it was 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:19.799 just a collective decision with Camouflage was the company that 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:25.760 did the design work on the album, and um, I 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.120 guess it's just to put something out you know, different. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.600 And who's your manager? Back then? Alan Peiser was the 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.960 manager Group three management? Okay? And how did you end 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:42.200 up on Blue Thumb through the Group three? So in hindsight, 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.720 good decision, bad decision. Cross now is dead. It's not 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:50.680 a big deal. Good and bad. It's all good, you know, 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:56.520 but bad. I mean they were all you know, most 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:01.359 people in music business or musicians, as far as I'm concerned, 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.639 would either be either that or life or crime. It 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:11.919 would be one or the other. Okay, let's go back 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:15.840 to the real beginning. Where'd you grow up Worcester, England? 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.040 You know, we live in America. We're like focused solely 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.200 on Mary. We could. I know we're Worcester Masses. What's 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.640 where's Worcester in England? What's does the heartland of England 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:33.880 twelve miles from the Welsh border? Okay, Strafford on Avon? Okay? 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.960 And then what did your father or mother do for 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:43.320 a living there? Well, I say my dad was born 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:51.120 in so he was relatively old. She was fifty two. Wow. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:57.880 My mother was I think forty six or forty seven. Um, 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.960 they have My father had a candy store for forty 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:07.400 eight years and um an ice cream factory. Um. And 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:12.800 but mostly he was he was racist. He was a 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.400 what horse racing? Ah, now, I know that's big in 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.960 the U. Okay, was he did the candy store exists 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:29.120 during the Second World War? Good question? Um? I'm not sure. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.719 I suppose it must have done. Actually, yeah, I must have. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.599 My father was in the First World War because I 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.360 was in candy ration then it was hard to get 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:41.320 probably okay, So but he knew, you know, he knew 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.440 a guy. He knew a guy, right, and uh the 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.839 ice cream factory he owned, Yeah, just a small one 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.280 for making ice cream for the store. And you had 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.719 as much ice cream as you wri wanka couldn't have 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:03.320 been better. I have to te time. Okay. So, had 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.240 either your parents been married before? No? So, how many 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:12.960 kids were there in the family. Um? I had one 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.400 sister that has passed away. There was about seventeen years 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.440 between us and just the two of you, two of us, 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:25.160 and then my father had three kids. Um, from previous Oh, 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:27.960 my father was married before I had from a previous marriage. 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:29.919 And were you close to those kids or they were 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.760 already in their own world? Not? No, not really so 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:37.080 we you mean, he pretty much kicked them all out 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.440 when they were sixteen seventeen. So we take care of yourself. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.760 So were you like the you know, the fear haired 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.040 child that they put all their investment in you? Or 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:50.040 we were ignored and let able to run free all 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.840 of it? Pretty much? I was spoiled. And when did 0:05:54.880 --> 0:06:02.400 you first start playing music? Why? Out? I guess music 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.520 and stuff was pretty much from you know, at school, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:13.400 school choirs, stuff like that, school plays, um, and then 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:19.960 you know, pretty much guitar was kind of it was 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.560 like the next thing from model airplanes from me. So 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:33.159 we were pre Beatles same time as Beatles um before before. 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.599 I mean, it wasn't something. My dream was to go 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:40.599 in the Royal Air Force. Really, what where did that 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.800 come from? That's what I wanted to do, and so 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.760 I wanted to fly. Why how when did you you? 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.160 I'm sure you flew on other substances further down the road, 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.960 but when did you give up the dream? Well? Pretty much, 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:59.520 I just wasn't my you know, most of it was 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:05.040 just my math skills weren't up to par. So did 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.840 you try the exams for right? Did you try? Um? 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.640 Not really, because it was a question of going to 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:17.360 the right schools h and I just basically didn't really 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.640 try that hard. Okay, So what what age were you 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:30.280 when you got your guitar? Well, I guess I don't know. Well, 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:36.200 my sister moved to America anyway in the fifties, h 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.760 to San Diego, and my mother and I went and 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:45.360 visited her when I was around about I don't know. 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:52.080 Probably gosh, I don't know what your was. Maybe I 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:58.240 was twelve thirteen, Yeah, and that's where a lot of 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.200 things for me would different because then Ray, what was 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.640 happening on the radio TV was you know, I mean 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.840 I grew up with We grew up with you know, 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:14.120 black and white TV and one station, the BBC, and 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:15.680 a lot of stuff that for me was on the 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:23.360 radio radio shows and so and or radio radio Luxembourg 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.320 or things like that. Um SO bought a lot of 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.800 stuff I got turned. Of course, that was the you're 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.800 at the beginning of all that, you know, bands and 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:41.040 guitar and and then while I was in San Diego, 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.560 I found this ukulele in a trash can and just 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.440 have a clue what to do with it. But I 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:52.280 sort of banged away on it. And then, um, I 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.640 guess when I got back, I I was still in school. 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:00.719 I got my dad bought me a guitar when I 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.840 just take it to school. So it was basically that. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.080 I mean, I just you know, I saw these other things, 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.520 bands and stuff. I think, well, Ship, I could do that. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:16.440 I think, so you're you're a confident and gentleman. I 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:21.560 guess I didn't do any difference. Okay, So was it 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.360 tough coming back to uh, the UK after being in 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:31.000 San Diego? Not that I don't think. So. Okay, you 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.600 say you brought your guitar to school? Did you? Did 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.000 they have like a music program or you played? I 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.719 played in art class. I got to talk to the 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:43.160 art teacher, didn't mind if I bring this in there? 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.640 And are you self taught? And can you read music? No? 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:54.640 No way? Okay, So how far do you go in school? Um? 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.960 Well I went to what was called a secondary modern 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.439 pretty much of which there was A, B and C 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.040 in D streams and I pretty much was in the 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.920 A stream stream being the best. And how did that 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.880 end for you? Well, you go there into your m 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:18.160 about sixteen, and then you either go into college or 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.880 you go to work. And for part of the time 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.280 I figured I would try my hand at being a draftsman. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:31.600 Went to a technical college for about a year a half, 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.120 and by then I was getting more and more into 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:39.480 playing and figured, um, you know, I just knew that 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.160 I was never gonna work nine to five because your 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.080 personality or something never gonna work for me. I was 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.920 never gonna There's no way because you're not good with 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.440 ordering bosses or you're not good with it, you know, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.280 this structure, all of it. Probably I'm just you know, 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:03.560 and we're your parents supportive. My mother was, yeah, but 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.360 that would imply your father wasn't. Well. I pretty you know. 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:12.280 I I sort of exited myself. And it's about sixteen anyway, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:17.120 out of the house. And did you support yourself after sixteen? Okay? 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.920 Playing playing music at that point? You know, sixteen seventeen 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.600 we had I think it was about that day's when 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:28.120 it formed. The Jaguars play you know, pubs, local gigs 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:34.680 and covers. I assume, oh yeah, all covers. So what 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.119 was the game? So what year we in? Like sixty 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:44.079 six years? Are like, um, I don't know what I'm 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.400 I don't know what you're I mean, I forget what 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.439 your traffic started sixty seven. The record came out in 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.160 the Maryland in sixty seven, so would have started basically 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:58.480 in sixty six. So yeah, I would have been sixty 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.120 five sixty four. So you're playing with your band, you're 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.080 playing covers, and you're happy or you see, there's gotta 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.880 be something bigger than this. Well, no, I was determined 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.840 it was going to be successful one way or another. Okay, 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.120 so was it a regular band with the same guys 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:22.280 UM at first UM, but then it sort of changed around. 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.560 There was there was the Jaguars. Then we had a 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:30.320 band called the Deep Feeling UM, and then I got 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.800 and then Jim Capody and I got involved in a 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:39.520 band because he lived twelve miles away from me and 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.480 he had a band called he Was, so he Jim 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:48.239 was like an erstwhile Elvis fronting a band called the Sapphires, 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.559 and then we uh we formed a band called the Hellian's. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:02.360 UM actually did a record for Hi Jackie de Shannon's 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:07.520 song which went nowhere. I went out and backed UM. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:08.959 I think it was with a Helly and so I'm 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.640 trying to remember if it was with them, went out 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:20.240 and did a tour with backing p J PROBYO and UM. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.839 Then I kind of moved down to London and a 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.400 little bit slower. So when you're playing with these bands, 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:30.640 do you feel these bands are gonna make it or 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.600 you're better than the bands and you have to carry 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.040 the whole thing. I don't really know. I was just 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:44.199 I mean, I I mean, I was hoping any one 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.880 of them could really, I suppose, And so who got 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.360 you the deal with Pie? You know, I we I 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.839 think we got well with that group, the Hellians. We 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:58.319 got signed. We had a management company down in London. 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:08.480 Um M guy named Maurice King, who um the other two? 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.880 I forget what other acts? There was one act the 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.200 Walker Brothers. He had he had the Walker Brothers, one 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:21.320 of whom just recently passed, and and so that got 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:30.600 me more into the sort of professional seeing. And then um, 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:35.200 you know, we played a lot of gigs in Birmingham, um, 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:40.360 which is basically where Jim and I met Winwood? Oh 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.200 really okay, so Jim you met just because in the 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.880 BN scene he was fronting a band. And then we 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.640 you know, we it finally sort of got to where 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.600 you pulled. We tried to pull the best of all 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.920 the local bands and find the guys and put them together. 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.080 And when did Jim start playing the drums stopping in 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.680 front man M Bay, I don't know, basically he I mean, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:09.480 he was never a drummer. He just could just do it. Okay, 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:14.160 So how did you meet Winwood in Birmingham? Met him 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.120 at a place called the Elbow Room. And so you 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.080 were just hanging out or you went to you were 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.280 performing or he was performing. It was an after hour 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:26.360 sat my private club, unvite a couple of guys that 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.600 Jamaican guy in UM guy named Don Carlos. And at 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.600 this point, when would it already had his hits with 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.600 the Spencer David Well, dimpos was a hit when he 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:41.040 was fifteen. So and so how did it is? How 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.120 we did you decide you could form a band? We 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:48.160 just started kind of hanging out basically, just just hanging out, 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.840 smoking a lot of hash, listening to all kinds of 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.800 music and just just hanging out when we could. And 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:03.160 I guess he got to the point where he just, um, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.160 I didn't want to be Spencer Davis group anymore. So 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.880 when you would do something different. And during that time, 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:15.880 through all that, I was um a roadie for them 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.560 for about three or four months. Okay, So when you 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.400 were you know, Windwood was a star and when you 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.520 got to meet him, was he just another musician or 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.560 you say this guy is a star or this is 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.480 a guy that can work with Well, I wasn't. I'm 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.960 a star. I mean he just was. You know, he 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:39.160 was just a an inordinate amount of of of natural talent. 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:47.960 So Um and Jim and I we were fans, and 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.040 so you know, it's just sort of But then, like 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.320 I said, we just started hanging out basically. Um, and 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.320 so you were a roady for the end of the 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.440 Spencer Davis group or from the beginning of I was. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.280 I was. I mean, I you know, I sang I'm 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.720 singing the harmony on Somebody Help Me. Well really, um, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:12.520 I mean, uh, me and Jim are both on give 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.080 Me Some Love and I'm a Man. Really I didn't 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.600 know that. Okay. So during when you met him, before 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:24.159 the heyday of the Spencer Davis group, Um, because you 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.240 were singing on all those songs I'm a man, give 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:29.600 Me some Love. Those were the hits in the US, 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:31.679 I know. He yes, I mean they had, you know, 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:42.200 keep on running writing things for you, big hits in England, Europe. Okay, 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:47.120 So what well you were hanging with Winwood. Have you 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.840 stopped being in your own band touring around? Are you 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:54.680 still doing that simultaneously? Um? Well, I at that point 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.560 I didn't really have it well. Played with a guy 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:03.200 named Don Kove for a little while in London, and 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.280 then when it got more to the point where the 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.879 four of us were like we're gonna you know, Steve 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.160 is really going to leave and we're going to form 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.400 a band. So I didn't do anything for about three 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.720 or four four months or more. And that's why I 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.639 was playing road manager with Spencer Davis Group. Okay, were 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.480 your road manager or road like a road He was 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.000 kind of a road I mean, so he did a 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.960 little bit of everything. I was just there to hang 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.840 out with Steve. Okay. Did it feel like a step down, 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.399 as you know, doing the behind the scenes stuff instead 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:36.760 of being on the flat? I don't care. I mean 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.800 I knew we were going to form a band. So 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.520 and how did everybody react when Steve said he was 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:48.000 going to leave the Spencer Davis Group. Um, not too happy. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:53.480 Spencer flipped out. I mean, I I under I get it. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.199 I mean he was the Spencer Davis Group exactly. There 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:04.320 was nothing after that, you know. So, and that's basically 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.080 how you know, kind of Traffic started? How do how? 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.240 Why was it named traffic? We were trying to come 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:16.160 up with a name, you know, and pretty much every 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:22.760 band was the and we're trying to think of something different. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.480 We spent weeks with what about this? What about this? 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.120 What about this? And then Jim and I were at 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:37.320 a a um a movie, an afternoon movie in Worcester, 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.680 and in the cinema when you came out, the front 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.960 doors had steps that went right down onto the high street, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:52.720 and we walked out and he just went, I got 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:58.720 it traffic. And did you think it was a good idea? Immediately? Yeah? 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.199 Immediately it was like yeah, perfect, Okay, Just so I 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:06.280 know how far is Wooster from Birmingham. Um, it's about 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.159 thirty miles okay, relatively close. Yeah. And then how did 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.040 Chris Wood get involved? Chris was a friend of Steve's 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.520 and he was always going to be involved. Um, I guess, 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.359 I mean they were friends. He was an art school guy. Okay, 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.760 so now you formed traffic. Chris. Chris Blackwell comes into 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.359 the situation. Well, he he managed Spencer Day, he had 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.840 Spencer Davis group. Anyway, it's at Steve. I mean, did 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.760 you feel like, well, now I've really hit the big 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:39.280 time or well I knew that that at that point, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.159 having being involved with Steve, being involved in it, it 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:48.960 was certainly going to get attention. And then it was 0:20:49.040 --> 0:21:05.160 Blackwell helpful, unhelpful, good dad? Mhm um in what sense? Hey? 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.119 Is he atively or just okay, he was a businessman. 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.520 Doesn't he get credit for producing that first record? No, 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.280 he didn't produce the first year. No, but I think 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.639 he takes credit though probably Okay, took everything else pretty much. 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:22.240 So okay, there you have it. Now when you want 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.000 to go, are you signed individually? I mean Jimmy Miller 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.200 produced the first album. He brought Jimmy Miller. Chris brought 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:32.760 Jimmy Miller over to produce Traffic, and Jimmy Miller one 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.040 of the unsung heroes of rock and roll. So what 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.160 was he like because he died way before his time. 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:44.680 Jimmy was just great, just very cool personality, great producer. 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.720 But with Traffic, it was, you know, we were Steve 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:54.200 wanted to get away from the from the young Ray 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:59.600 Charles dubbed that he got and do something different. So 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.520 and at first we were gonna we talked about a 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:07.760 lot of covers and doing you know, Bobby Bland stuff 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:14.439 or but when it started, that was my when I 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:19.800 sort of went, you know what, I'm gonna need to 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:27.360 start writing. Oh, you didn't write before then? No? Uh. 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:30.040 The first song I ever wrote was their biggest hit, 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:38.199 fantasy song called Hole in My shoe right, which was 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:40.840 the beginning of the end. Why was it the beginning 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:45.679 of the end. It was the beginning of the end because, 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:53.879 um because mostly because I guess, I don't know, probably 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.840 a bunch of reasons. I'll never know really why. Um. 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.760 But most of everything, most of the things that I wrote, 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.159 we're all, we're because I was there for the first 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:10.439 two albums. Um. But let's start with the first album. 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:12.720 First album, you're in the band and then you're out 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:18.800 of the band. Well, I wrote sort of nearly half 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.359 the songs, and we and we were kind of like 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.720 when the first little group of people that just sort 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:30.440 of we sequested ourselves away in that house in Berkshire 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.960 which had no no electricity, no running water until we 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.440 started putting it in there, um, just to see what 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.199 we could come up with. And I was trying to 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:46.199 you know, I didn't know what I could do or 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:53.040 couldn't do, so I wrote on my own, um, and 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:56.320 they were pretty much naive songs because I had no 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:01.600 I mean, street Smart was not part of my ringing, okay, 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:05.280 but literally between the album coming out in the UK 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:12.960 and the U s you you're no longer in the band. Um, Yeah, 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:17.399 pretty much, um. And the thing I was that happened 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:19.720 was that that hold of my shoe became a number 0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:25.439 two record in in England and was a hit in Europe. 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:35.680 And for me, it all happened so fast and suddenly 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:42.159 you're that thing that you've been wanting. Is there press this? 0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:45.760 That it all got too much for me and I 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:52.240 couldn't deal with it. It was basically what happened. I'm 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:55.080 just a kid from Worcester, you know, I grew up. 0:24:55.160 --> 0:25:00.000 My upbringing was not unlike Tom Sawyer, were running around 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.840 the fares, building rafts, bose narrows and okay, so you 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.240 wrote it all too much for me. So I left 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:12.040 and you left, and you intended to do what I 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:15.119 didn't know, but you felt you were done with this 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:19.480 music game. No no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:23.159 not at all. I mean I never got into this 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:29.440 be star. I got into this to make music and 0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:34.800 and make money, which came first? Make music or make money? Um? 0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:38.360 When the music always comes first? Okay, So when you 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.320 leave traffic, the spotlight is upon it. Did you see 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:45.200 it in the money from hole in my shoe? Um? 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.080 Who knows? I have no clue? Must have seen something. 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:51.320 I mean blackbo took all the publishing on everything because 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:56.000 I didn't know any different. Okay, so when you leave 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:59.800 the band, what are the other three members saying? Uh 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:05.359 m hmm, I don't know. They pretty much sort of 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:07.520 went on as their own, the three of them. And 0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:09.159 how did you come back to the ban for the 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:13.760 second they were they were in well whilst I was 0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:20.080 whilst in that time that I had left. See part 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:23.040 of it was I was so Traffic was an interesting 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:27.680 group of well because we all have a very diversified 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:32.399 musical tastes. I mean, we loved all kinds of music, 0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:39.480 so which I thought was its strength. And um, it 0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:41.679 didn't really matter who wrote the hit song to me 0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:47.000 because at least that got attention to the band. And 0:26:47.000 --> 0:26:52.520 there was so much other material there. Um. And so 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:56.360 after I had to take a break from the fame. 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.720 From the fame, I guess of it. But that's when 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:05.919 I m got to know Hendricks. Um, I like to 0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:09.959 know McCartney. I produced an album called Music the Dolls 0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:16.680 House for the whop called the Family, UM put out 0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:24.960 the first compatible stereo single. UM. And so I and 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:27.879 I'd come back and I come back to America a 0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:33.119 few times and for what reason, Because mostly for the 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.280 reason I finally came here, because this is where it 0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:40.119 all starts. This is where it all starts, This is 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:44.600 where it all comes from. Okay, we just copied you up. 0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:47.119 We just copied everything and sold it back to you. 0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:51.200 We were asleep at the wheel and we The other 0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:55.320 big thing is too, as I see we all in 0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:58.480 England Europe is we didn't have all that segregation going on. 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.560 We didn't, you know, so we had all those great 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:05.400 that's why that blue stuff started happened so much over there. 0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:10.159 There wasn't any radio segregation of music over there, so 0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:14.280 we heard it all. So you're saying you heard it 0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:18.280 all in the UK. So were you caught off guard 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:26.199 when you experienced the segregation in America? I mean, I 0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:29.000 don't know if I really if I really paid that 0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:36.040 much attention at the time and be honest with you, um, 0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:39.960 but anyway, I sort of came back and forth a 0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:44.720 few times and then and also at the time, I 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:49.280 during that period of time too, I went to Greece 0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:53.240 for a couple of months, to the island of Hedra 0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:57.600