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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Side Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is the truly legendary Dave Mason, and

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Speaker 1: that star, as I say, rock Dave's bucks. We really

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Speaker 1: have the rock and roll lifestyle here. Okay, So Dave,

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Speaker 1: how long is this tour? Uh? This is well, it's

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Speaker 1: only been about let's see, it ends on the of

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Speaker 1: the month October. I've really done a lot this year.

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Speaker 1: How much? Um? Some in January early in the year.

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Speaker 1: I think it was January February early in the year,

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Speaker 1: and then um, and then the first actually, the first

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Speaker 1: part of it was the my which he was a

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Speaker 1: continuation from the previous year, which was my Rock and

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Speaker 1: Soul review with me and Steve Cropper. How do you

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Speaker 1: know Steve Cropper? Oh? I met Kropp a long time

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Speaker 1: ago here in l A. Really so this is after

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Speaker 1: he paid his dues in Memphis, I guess. So. Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know I've been a fan since I

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Speaker 1: was eighteen nineteen years old. Well, it's funny. He's such

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Speaker 1: a big guy. You think of a studio guy, and

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Speaker 1: he looks like I could play basketball. Um, it's great.

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Speaker 1: It was a great show. So who else was in

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Speaker 1: the band for how many players did with my with

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Speaker 1: my band okay, and just with Steve with Steve my band.

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Speaker 1: And also we had um a girl from Maui, uh,

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Speaker 1: Gretchen Rhodes who was part of it. Now some of

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Speaker 1: the time you live in Maui? Is that how you

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Speaker 1: met her? Yeah? Okay, let's go back a few years.

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Speaker 1: Whose decision was it to have the Pizza album the

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Speaker 1: first alone together where it was multi colored? Um, well,

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Speaker 1: basically was supposed to come out like a sunburst. Oh really,

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Speaker 1: but there was no controlling the colors in the press, so, um,

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Speaker 1: every one of them, we just came out different. And

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Speaker 1: whose decision was to do that? Though? Um, it was

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Speaker 1: just a collective decision with Camouflage was the company that

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Speaker 1: did the design work on the album, and um, I

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Speaker 1: guess it's just to put something out you know, different.

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Speaker 1: And who's your manager? Back then? Alan Peiser was the

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Speaker 1: manager Group three management? Okay? And how did you end

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Speaker 1: up on Blue Thumb through the Group three? So in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: good decision, bad decision. Cross now is dead. It's not

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Speaker 1: a big deal. Good and bad. It's all good, you know,

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Speaker 1: but bad. I mean they were all you know, most

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Speaker 1: people in music business or musicians, as far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: would either be either that or life or crime. It

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Speaker 1: would be one or the other. Okay, let's go back

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Speaker 1: to the real beginning. Where'd you grow up Worcester, England?

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Speaker 1: You know, we live in America. We're like focused solely

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Speaker 1: on Mary. We could. I know we're Worcester Masses. What's

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Speaker 1: where's Worcester in England? What's does the heartland of England

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Speaker 1: twelve miles from the Welsh border? Okay, Strafford on Avon? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And then what did your father or mother do for

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Speaker 1: a living there? Well, I say my dad was born

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Speaker 1: in so he was relatively old. She was fifty two. Wow.

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Speaker 1: My mother was I think forty six or forty seven. Um,

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Speaker 1: they have My father had a candy store for forty

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Speaker 1: eight years and um an ice cream factory. Um. And

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Speaker 1: but mostly he was he was racist. He was a

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Speaker 1: what horse racing? Ah, now, I know that's big in

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Speaker 1: the U. Okay, was he did the candy store exists

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Speaker 1: during the Second World War? Good question? Um? I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I suppose it must have done. Actually, yeah, I must have.

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Speaker 1: My father was in the First World War because I

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Speaker 1: was in candy ration then it was hard to get

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Speaker 1: probably okay, So but he knew, you know, he knew

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Speaker 1: a guy. He knew a guy, right, and uh the

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Speaker 1: ice cream factory he owned, Yeah, just a small one

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Speaker 1: for making ice cream for the store. And you had

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Speaker 1: as much ice cream as you wri wanka couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been better. I have to te time. Okay. So, had

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Speaker 1: either your parents been married before? No? So, how many

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Speaker 1: kids were there in the family. Um? I had one

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Speaker 1: sister that has passed away. There was about seventeen years

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Speaker 1: between us and just the two of you, two of us,

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Speaker 1: and then my father had three kids. Um, from previous Oh,

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Speaker 1: my father was married before I had from a previous marriage.

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Speaker 1: And were you close to those kids or they were

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Speaker 1: already in their own world? Not? No, not really so

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Speaker 1: we you mean, he pretty much kicked them all out

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Speaker 1: when they were sixteen seventeen. So we take care of yourself.

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Speaker 1: So were you like the you know, the fear haired

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Speaker 1: child that they put all their investment in you? Or

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Speaker 1: we were ignored and let able to run free all

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Speaker 1: of it? Pretty much? I was spoiled. And when did

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Speaker 1: you first start playing music? Why? Out? I guess music

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Speaker 1: and stuff was pretty much from you know, at school,

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Speaker 1: school choirs, stuff like that, school plays, um, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, pretty much guitar was kind of it was

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Speaker 1: like the next thing from model airplanes from me. So

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Speaker 1: we were pre Beatles same time as Beatles um before before.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't something. My dream was to go

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Speaker 1: in the Royal Air Force. Really, what where did that

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Speaker 1: come from? That's what I wanted to do, and so

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Speaker 1: I wanted to fly. Why how when did you you?

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you flew on other substances further down the road,

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Speaker 1: but when did you give up the dream? Well? Pretty much,

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Speaker 1: I just wasn't my you know, most of it was

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Speaker 1: just my math skills weren't up to par. So did

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Speaker 1: you try the exams for right? Did you try? Um?

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Speaker 1: Not really, because it was a question of going to

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Speaker 1: the right schools h and I just basically didn't really

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Speaker 1: try that hard. Okay, So what what age were you

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Speaker 1: when you got your guitar? Well, I guess I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 1: my sister moved to America anyway in the fifties, h

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Speaker 1: to San Diego, and my mother and I went and

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Speaker 1: visited her when I was around about I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Probably gosh, I don't know what your was. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: was twelve thirteen, Yeah, and that's where a lot of

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Speaker 1: things for me would different because then Ray, what was

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Speaker 1: happening on the radio TV was you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: I grew up with We grew up with you know,

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Speaker 1: black and white TV and one station, the BBC, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that for me was on the

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Speaker 1: radio radio shows and so and or radio radio Luxembourg

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Speaker 1: or things like that. Um SO bought a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff I got turned. Of course, that was the you're

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of all that, you know, bands and

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Speaker 1: guitar and and then while I was in San Diego,

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Speaker 1: I found this ukulele in a trash can and just

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Speaker 1: have a clue what to do with it. But I

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Speaker 1: sort of banged away on it. And then, um, I

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Speaker 1: guess when I got back, I I was still in school.

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Speaker 1: I got my dad bought me a guitar when I

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Speaker 1: just take it to school. So it was basically that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just you know, I saw these other things,

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Speaker 1: bands and stuff. I think, well, Ship, I could do that.

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Speaker 1: I think, so you're you're a confident and gentleman. I

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Speaker 1: guess I didn't do any difference. Okay, So was it

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Speaker 1: tough coming back to uh, the UK after being in

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Speaker 1: San Diego? Not that I don't think. So. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: say you brought your guitar to school? Did you? Did

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Speaker 1: they have like a music program or you played? I

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Speaker 1: played in art class. I got to talk to the

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Speaker 1: art teacher, didn't mind if I bring this in there?

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Speaker 1: And are you self taught? And can you read music? No?

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Speaker 1: No way? Okay, So how far do you go in school? Um?

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Speaker 1: Well I went to what was called a secondary modern

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Speaker 1: pretty much of which there was A, B and C

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Speaker 1: in D streams and I pretty much was in the

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Speaker 1: A stream stream being the best. And how did that

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Speaker 1: end for you? Well, you go there into your m

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Speaker 1: about sixteen, and then you either go into college or

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Speaker 1: you go to work. And for part of the time

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Speaker 1: I figured I would try my hand at being a draftsman.

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Speaker 1: Went to a technical college for about a year a half,

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Speaker 1: and by then I was getting more and more into

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Speaker 1: playing and figured, um, you know, I just knew that

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Speaker 1: I was never gonna work nine to five because your

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Speaker 1: personality or something never gonna work for me. I was

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Speaker 1: never gonna There's no way because you're not good with

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Speaker 1: ordering bosses or you're not good with it, you know,

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Speaker 1: this structure, all of it. Probably I'm just you know,

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Speaker 1: and we're your parents supportive. My mother was, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: that would imply your father wasn't. Well. I pretty you know.

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Speaker 1: I I sort of exited myself. And it's about sixteen anyway,

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Speaker 1: out of the house. And did you support yourself after sixteen? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Playing playing music at that point? You know, sixteen seventeen

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Speaker 1: we had I think it was about that day's when

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Speaker 1: it formed. The Jaguars play you know, pubs, local gigs

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Speaker 1: and covers. I assume, oh yeah, all covers. So what

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Speaker 1: was the game? So what year we in? Like sixty

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Speaker 1: six years? Are like, um, I don't know what I'm

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you're I mean, I forget what

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Speaker 1: your traffic started sixty seven. The record came out in

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Speaker 1: the Maryland in sixty seven, so would have started basically

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Speaker 1: in sixty six. So yeah, I would have been sixty

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Speaker 1: five sixty four. So you're playing with your band, you're

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Speaker 1: playing covers, and you're happy or you see, there's gotta

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Speaker 1: be something bigger than this. Well, no, I was determined

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Speaker 1: it was going to be successful one way or another. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so was it a regular band with the same guys

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Speaker 1: UM at first UM, but then it sort of changed around.

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Speaker 1: There was there was the Jaguars. Then we had a

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Speaker 1: band called the Deep Feeling UM, and then I got

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Speaker 1: and then Jim Capody and I got involved in a

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Speaker 1: band because he lived twelve miles away from me and

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Speaker 1: he had a band called he Was, so he Jim

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Speaker 1: was like an erstwhile Elvis fronting a band called the Sapphires,

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Speaker 1: and then we uh we formed a band called the Hellian's.

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Speaker 1: UM actually did a record for Hi Jackie de Shannon's

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Speaker 1: song which went nowhere. I went out and backed UM.

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Speaker 1: I think it was with a Helly and so I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to remember if it was with them, went out

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Speaker 1: and did a tour with backing p J PROBYO and UM.

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Speaker 1: Then I kind of moved down to London and a

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Speaker 1: little bit slower. So when you're playing with these bands,

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Speaker 1: do you feel these bands are gonna make it or

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Speaker 1: you're better than the bands and you have to carry

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. I don't really know. I was just

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Speaker 1: I mean, I I mean, I was hoping any one

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Speaker 1: of them could really, I suppose, And so who got

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Speaker 1: you the deal with Pie? You know, I we I

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Speaker 1: think we got well with that group, the Hellians. We

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Speaker 1: got signed. We had a management company down in London.

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Speaker 1: Um M guy named Maurice King, who um the other two?

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Speaker 1: I forget what other acts? There was one act the

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Speaker 1: Walker Brothers. He had he had the Walker Brothers, one

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Speaker 1: of whom just recently passed, and and so that got

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Speaker 1: me more into the sort of professional seeing. And then um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we played a lot of gigs in Birmingham, um,

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Speaker 1: which is basically where Jim and I met Winwood? Oh

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Speaker 1: really okay, so Jim you met just because in the

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Speaker 1: BN scene he was fronting a band. And then we

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Speaker 1: you know, we it finally sort of got to where

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Speaker 1: you pulled. We tried to pull the best of all

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Speaker 1: the local bands and find the guys and put them together.

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Speaker 1: And when did Jim start playing the drums stopping in

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Speaker 1: front man M Bay, I don't know, basically he I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was never a drummer. He just could just do it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So how did you meet Winwood in Birmingham? Met him

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Speaker 1: at a place called the Elbow Room. And so you

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Speaker 1: were just hanging out or you went to you were

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Speaker 1: performing or he was performing. It was an after hour

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Speaker 1: sat my private club, unvite a couple of guys that

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Speaker 1: Jamaican guy in UM guy named Don Carlos. And at

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Speaker 1: this point, when would it already had his hits with

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Speaker 1: the Spencer David Well, dimpos was a hit when he

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Speaker 1: was fifteen. So and so how did it is? How

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Speaker 1: we did you decide you could form a band? We

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Speaker 1: just started kind of hanging out basically, just just hanging out,

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Speaker 1: smoking a lot of hash, listening to all kinds of

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Speaker 1: music and just just hanging out when we could. And

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Speaker 1: I guess he got to the point where he just, um,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be Spencer Davis group anymore. So

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Speaker 1: when you would do something different. And during that time,

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Speaker 1: through all that, I was um a roadie for them

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Speaker 1: for about three or four months. Okay, So when you

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Speaker 1: were you know, Windwood was a star and when you

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Speaker 1: got to meet him, was he just another musician or

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Speaker 1: you say this guy is a star or this is

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Speaker 1: a guy that can work with Well, I wasn't. I'm

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Speaker 1: a star. I mean he just was. You know, he

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Speaker 1: was just a an inordinate amount of of of natural talent.

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Speaker 1: So Um and Jim and I we were fans, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's just sort of But then, like

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Speaker 1: I said, we just started hanging out basically. Um, and

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Speaker 1: so you were a roady for the end of the

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Speaker 1: Spencer Davis group or from the beginning of I was.

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Speaker 1: I was. I mean, I you know, I sang I'm

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Speaker 1: singing the harmony on Somebody Help Me. Well really, um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, uh, me and Jim are both on give

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Speaker 1: Me Some Love and I'm a Man. Really I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that. Okay. So during when you met him, before

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Speaker 1: the heyday of the Spencer Davis group, Um, because you

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Speaker 1: were singing on all those songs I'm a man, give

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Speaker 1: Me some Love. Those were the hits in the US,

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Speaker 1: I know. He yes, I mean they had, you know,

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Speaker 1: keep on running writing things for you, big hits in England, Europe. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what well you were hanging with Winwood. Have you

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Speaker 1: stopped being in your own band touring around? Are you

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Speaker 1: still doing that simultaneously? Um? Well, I at that point

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have it well. Played with a guy

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Speaker 1: named Don Kove for a little while in London, and

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Speaker 1: then when it got more to the point where the

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Speaker 1: four of us were like we're gonna you know, Steve

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Speaker 1: is really going to leave and we're going to form

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Speaker 1: a band. So I didn't do anything for about three

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Speaker 1: or four four months or more. And that's why I

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Speaker 1: was playing road manager with Spencer Davis Group. Okay, were

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Speaker 1: your road manager or road like a road He was

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Speaker 1: kind of a road I mean, so he did a

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Speaker 1: little bit of everything. I was just there to hang

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Speaker 1: out with Steve. Okay. Did it feel like a step down,

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Speaker 1: as you know, doing the behind the scenes stuff instead

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Speaker 1: of being on the flat? I don't care. I mean

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Speaker 1: I knew we were going to form a band. So

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Speaker 1: and how did everybody react when Steve said he was

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Speaker 1: going to leave the Spencer Davis Group. Um, not too happy.

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Speaker 1: Spencer flipped out. I mean, I I under I get it.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was the Spencer Davis Group exactly. There

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Speaker 1: was nothing after that, you know. So, and that's basically

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Speaker 1: how you know, kind of Traffic started? How do how?

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Speaker 1: Why was it named traffic? We were trying to come

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Speaker 1: up with a name, you know, and pretty much every

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Speaker 1: band was the and we're trying to think of something different.

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Speaker 1: We spent weeks with what about this? What about this?

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Speaker 1: What about this? And then Jim and I were at

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Speaker 1: a a um a movie, an afternoon movie in Worcester,

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Speaker 1: and in the cinema when you came out, the front

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Speaker 1: doors had steps that went right down onto the high street,

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Speaker 1: and we walked out and he just went, I got

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Speaker 1: it traffic. And did you think it was a good idea? Immediately? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Immediately it was like yeah, perfect, Okay, Just so I

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Speaker 1: know how far is Wooster from Birmingham. Um, it's about

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Speaker 1: thirty miles okay, relatively close. Yeah. And then how did

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Speaker 1: Chris Wood get involved? Chris was a friend of Steve's

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Speaker 1: and he was always going to be involved. Um, I guess,

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Speaker 1: I mean they were friends. He was an art school guy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so now you formed traffic. Chris. Chris Blackwell comes into

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Speaker 1: the situation. Well, he he managed Spencer Day, he had

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Speaker 1: Spencer Davis group. Anyway, it's at Steve. I mean, did

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Speaker 1: you feel like, well, now I've really hit the big

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Speaker 1: time or well I knew that that at that point,

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Speaker 1: having being involved with Steve, being involved in it, it

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Speaker 1: was certainly going to get attention. And then it was

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Speaker 1: Blackwell helpful, unhelpful, good dad? Mhm um in what sense? Hey?

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Speaker 1: Is he atively or just okay, he was a businessman.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't he get credit for producing that first record? No,

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Speaker 1: he didn't produce the first year. No, but I think

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Speaker 1: he takes credit though probably Okay, took everything else pretty much.

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Speaker 1: So okay, there you have it. Now when you want

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Speaker 1: to go, are you signed individually? I mean Jimmy Miller

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Speaker 1: produced the first album. He brought Jimmy Miller. Chris brought

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Miller over to produce Traffic, and Jimmy Miller one

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Speaker 1: of the unsung heroes of rock and roll. So what

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Speaker 1: was he like because he died way before his time.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy was just great, just very cool personality, great producer.

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Speaker 1: But with Traffic, it was, you know, we were Steve

308
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Speaker 1: wanted to get away from the from the young Ray

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Speaker 1: Charles dubbed that he got and do something different. So

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Speaker 1: and at first we were gonna we talked about a

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Speaker 1: lot of covers and doing you know, Bobby Bland stuff

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Speaker 1: or but when it started, that was my when I

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Speaker 1: sort of went, you know what, I'm gonna need to

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Speaker 1: start writing. Oh, you didn't write before then? No? Uh.

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Speaker 1: The first song I ever wrote was their biggest hit,

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Speaker 1: fantasy song called Hole in My shoe right, which was

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the end. Why was it the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the end. It was the beginning of the end because,

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Speaker 1: um because mostly because I guess, I don't know, probably

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Speaker 1: a bunch of reasons. I'll never know really why. Um.

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Speaker 1: But most of everything, most of the things that I wrote,

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Speaker 1: we're all, we're because I was there for the first

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Speaker 1: two albums. Um. But let's start with the first album.

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Speaker 1: First album, you're in the band and then you're out

325
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Speaker 1: of the band. Well, I wrote sort of nearly half

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Speaker 1: the songs, and we and we were kind of like

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Speaker 1: when the first little group of people that just sort

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Speaker 1: of we sequested ourselves away in that house in Berkshire

329
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Speaker 1: which had no no electricity, no running water until we

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Speaker 1: started putting it in there, um, just to see what

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Speaker 1: we could come up with. And I was trying to

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know what I could do or

333
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Speaker 1: couldn't do, so I wrote on my own, um, and

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Speaker 1: they were pretty much naive songs because I had no

335
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Speaker 1: I mean, street Smart was not part of my ringing, okay,

336
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Speaker 1: but literally between the album coming out in the UK

337
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: and the U s you you're no longer in the band. Um, Yeah,

338
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Speaker 1: pretty much, um. And the thing I was that happened

339
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Speaker 1: was that that hold of my shoe became a number

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Speaker 1: two record in in England and was a hit in Europe.

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Speaker 1: And for me, it all happened so fast and suddenly

342
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Speaker 1: you're that thing that you've been wanting. Is there press this?

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Speaker 1: That it all got too much for me and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't deal with it. It was basically what happened. I'm

345
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Speaker 1: just a kid from Worcester, you know, I grew up.

346
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Speaker 1: My upbringing was not unlike Tom Sawyer, were running around

347
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Speaker 1: the fares, building rafts, bose narrows and okay, so you

348
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: wrote it all too much for me. So I left

349
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: and you left, and you intended to do what I

350
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: didn't know, but you felt you were done with this

351
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: music game. No no, no, no, no no, no, no, no,

352
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Speaker 1: not at all. I mean I never got into this

353
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Speaker 1: be star. I got into this to make music and

354
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: and make money, which came first? Make music or make money? Um?

355
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: When the music always comes first? Okay, So when you

356
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: leave traffic, the spotlight is upon it. Did you see

357
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: it in the money from hole in my shoe? Um?

358
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: Who knows? I have no clue? Must have seen something.

359
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: I mean blackbo took all the publishing on everything because

360
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Speaker 1: I didn't know any different. Okay, so when you leave

361
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Speaker 1: the band, what are the other three members saying? Uh

362
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Speaker 1: m hmm, I don't know. They pretty much sort of

363
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Speaker 1: went on as their own, the three of them. And

364
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Speaker 1: how did you come back to the ban for the

365
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: second they were they were in well whilst I was

366
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: whilst in that time that I had left. See part

367
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: of it was I was so Traffic was an interesting

368
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: group of well because we all have a very diversified

369
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: musical tastes. I mean, we loved all kinds of music,

370
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Speaker 1: so which I thought was its strength. And um, it

371
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 1: didn't really matter who wrote the hit song to me

372
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Speaker 1: because at least that got attention to the band. And

373
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Speaker 1: there was so much other material there. Um. And so

374
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Speaker 1: after I had to take a break from the fame.

375
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Speaker 1: From the fame, I guess of it. But that's when

376
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: I m got to know Hendricks. Um, I like to

377
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 1: know McCartney. I produced an album called Music the Dolls

378
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: House for the whop called the Family, UM put out

379
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: the first compatible stereo single. UM. And so I and

380
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: I'd come back and I come back to America a

381
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: few times and for what reason, Because mostly for the

382
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: reason I finally came here, because this is where it

383
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: all starts. This is where it all starts, This is

384
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: where it all comes from. Okay, we just copied you up.

385
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: We just copied everything and sold it back to you.

386
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: We were asleep at the wheel and we The other

387
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: big thing is too, as I see we all in

388
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: England Europe is we didn't have all that segregation going on.

389
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: We didn't, you know, so we had all those great

390
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: that's why that blue stuff started happened so much over there.

391
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: There wasn't any radio segregation of music over there, so

392
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: we heard it all. So you're saying you heard it

393
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: all in the UK. So were you caught off guard

394
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: when you experienced the segregation in America? I mean, I

395
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: don't know if I really if I really paid that

396
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: much attention at the time and be honest with you, um,

397
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: but anyway, I sort of came back and forth a

398
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: few times and then and also at the time, I

399
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: during that period of time too, I went to Greece

400
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: for a couple of months, to the island of Hedra

401
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: to work on songwriting because I thought my stuff was

402
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: sort of uh the you know, hold of my Shoe

403
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: was just a little fantasy thing that was ahead. Um,

404
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: but I wanted to write more mm hmm, just about

405
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: just life things, real things. Tom My. Whole thing was

406
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: wrong writing is to write something that's timeless. I don't

407
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: want it to be trapped in a fashion or time

408
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: or place. Since you had a number of hits, did

409
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: you right trying to have a hit or you said

410
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: they just yeah, well I have a a you know,

411
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: I have a somewhat of a pop sensibility. Okay, so

412
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: how do you come back into traffic for the second

413
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: I was in New York and they were at the

414
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: I think they were at the record plan to New

415
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: York working on the second album, and all they had

416
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: were five songs. M and I was at the studio visiting,

417
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: and I said, well I got five songs. Oh all right,

418
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: well we want to come sure, let's recording. Well, you

419
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: had except for forty thousand head Men, which is a

420
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: great track. You have the three best tracks on the

421
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: album feeling all right, Well, it feel it all right,

422
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: but that's a famous one. But it started the album

423
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: started where you could all join in. And my favorite

424
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: songs on the second side, crying to be heard. So

425
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: were those songs you've written in Hedra pretty much? Okay?

426
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: But you talk about A Hole in the Hole of

427
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: My Shoe being your first track most people, right, you know,

428
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: I read a hundred songs. The first ninety were bad.

429
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: Were you someone where every track, every song you worked

430
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: on and then it became quality? Uh? Well, I you know, basically,

431
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not I'm not very I'm not very prolific.

432
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: If I write something, it's I mean stuff. I well

433
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: if I if it doesn't feel right, I just throw

434
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: it out. So I am usually just concentrate. I concentrate

435
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: on what my version of quality is rather than quantity.

436
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: I guess my question would be those three tracks on

437
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: the second album with those songs that you wrote right

438
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: after A Hole of My Shoe or you written a

439
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: lot of other ones. No, no, they weren't. That's when

440
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: I mean it took me. It was just took me

441
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: two years to write those eight songs on alone together. Okay,

442
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: but let's go back to the second traffic and what's

443
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: the story. I'm crying to be heard? I don't even

444
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: remember just whatever it's saying. Okay, how I mets a

445
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: song I've never done. I've never sang that. I've never

446
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: performed that song. Why. I mean, I thought it was cool,

447
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: but hey, don't have that voice anymore for one thing,

448
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: and um, you know I'll do all join in, um,

449
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: But for me, crying to be heard was just a

450
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: it was an album track. It's important to me. But

451
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: at any event, what's the story? And you can all

452
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: join in? Remember how that came together? Um? I think

453
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: I wrote most of the lyrics for that sitting in

454
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: a cafe, outdoor cafe in Athens. And you know what

455
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: inspired it? Just basically what exactly what it's saying pretty much?

456
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: And what's the story of behind feeling all right? Feeling

457
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: all rights? Um? Feeling all right is about not feeling

458
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: too good myself. That's what feeling all right is? What

459
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: was the inspiration for that girl? Of course a woman?

460
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: And did it really all are okay? You have this?

461
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: Did the song a lot of times? When you're in

462
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: that mood, that the press mood, the creativity comes and

463
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: it comes out all in one batch. Did the song

464
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: kind of right itself? Or did you work on it

465
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: for a long time? I mean part of it too

466
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: was I was trying to musically I was trying to

467
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: write the simplest thing I possibly could come up with

468
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: because I had been playing sitar for some time, which

469
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: I used on the first album, and George Harrison gave

470
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: me the sitar that he learned on UM to start with.

471
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: So I've been playing sitar and I've been listened to

472
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: our Indian music, So having been listening to that basically

473
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: around a drone UM, it was part of the for

474
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: me was trying to write the simplest possible thing I

475
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: could come up with, and other than one chord, two chords. Okay.

476
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: Now that's all you know is literally legendary played a

477
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: lot today. Does Black well in the publishing on that

478
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: or do you no? I don't know in the publishing

479
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: on it, but you still get the writer's share I do, okay.

480
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: And then do you know how Joe Cocker ended up

481
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: covering it? Um? Not until Denny Cordell, I mean, the

482
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: producer got him to cover it. I mean that's the

483
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: definitive version. Okay, So you like it? Oh? Yeah, you're kidding.

484
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: I wish I'd have done it like that. I mean

485
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: I do on pretty much on stage, but it's you know,

486
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: it's an adaptable song. You can do it in so

487
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: many ways. You could do as a reggae song if

488
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: you want. So how did it end with Traffic? How

489
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: did Traffic decided to break up? So after the second

490
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: album came out, and of course my songs were the

491
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: single picks, And then I got a call to come

492
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: to a meeting at Chris Blackwell's house, and um so

493
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: I go over there and Chris and Steve and Jim

494
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: are they're sitting on the couch and I sit down

495
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: and the psycho okay, what's going on? And Steve looked

496
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: at me and says, I don't like the way you're saying.

497
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: I don't way. You're right, I don't like the way

498
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: you play. And you're out of the band. And that's

499
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: how it ended. And what did you say? I didn't

500
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: say anything too much, got up and left. And do

501
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: you see Winwood ever since then? Or he didn't see me?

502
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: But you maintained a relationship with Capaldi, right, coalities passed

503
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: away before that sort of sort of, But the band

504
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: itself ended up imploading, sure that they didn't have your

505
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: hit songs? Well possibly, okay, So track, you're done with Traffic?

506
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: Where does that leave you? Around the street pretty much

507
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: wondering what the hell I'm gonna do. And we tried

508
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: a couple of things. I mean, it was one point

509
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: where Steve had left the band and she left the band,

510
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: but the other three of you were carrying on. We

511
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: could try to carry on with a guy named winder

512
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: k Frog, but it was you know, you're not going

513
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: to replace Winwood. So you know, after all that, I

514
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: just finally went, you know what, I'm out of here.

515
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: That in the cents in the dollar taxes in England,

516
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, fuck this ship, I'm out

517
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: of here. I'm going west. And that's when I up

518
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: and left and came here to Los Angeles, came to

519
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Now, especially with today's situation, we're all very

520
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: familiar with immigration law. You can't stay here forever unless

521
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: you get a green card or you get a special visa.

522
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: How'd you end up being able to stay? I have

523
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: I am a I am an alien resident. Okay, But

524
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: back then, back in sixty eight or so, you applied

525
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: and you got that. Yeah, okay, you citizen now are

526
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: still in it, still an alien resident. Do you vote

527
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: in the UK? No? Do you care about Brexit? I don't.

528
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: I hope that passes because I think it should just

529
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: very simply why, Because I just don't think that wrapping

530
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: yourselves around the rest of Europe is going to benefit

531
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: England in any way. And do you go back at

532
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: this pointing back maybe twice three times really in fifty years? Okay,

533
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: so you don't sell any records there, never have. So

534
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: you're in America and I have no other reason to

535
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: go back there. You're in America, and then what do

536
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: you decide to do? Well? I came stayed with Graham

537
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: Parsons for for a little while. How do you know Graham?

538
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: I knew him through um met him through the rolling stones.

539
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: We've we've gotten, We've gone through Hendricks, We've gone through Harrison.

540
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: How did all this happen? Are you just the kind

541
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: of guy where everybody gets along with us? You could

542
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: meet every you could run into everybody, and there's only

543
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: one place. It's not like America where you had you

544
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: know how many music centers l A, New York, New Orleans, Philadelphia,

545
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: New York, Detroit, San Francisco. It was just London. And

546
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: that's so you've runned everybody there. We've done limited number

547
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: of studios, and Jimmy Miller was producing the Stones and

548
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: Hendricks and the Stones and Traffic and the rest of

549
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 1: us were all using the same studios, and wasn't unusual

550
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: for people to just drop by each other's sessions. And

551
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: when you start, so I am played on Street Fighting Man?

552
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: What are you playing on Street Fighting Man? Uh? Some

553
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: of the drums and that weird horn at the end

554
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: of it. How do you end up playing the weird horn?

555
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: Brian was a little too, he wasn't there actually, and

556
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: then Hendricks and IWI um during that period of time

557
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: where I left, there was a little rift going on

558
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: with him and no Redding, and jim and I actually

559
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: talked seriously about me taking Noh's place, but that would

560
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: be playing bass, and we did some recordings me playing

561
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: sitar and bass, so I have no clue where they are.

562
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: And then I got to sing on Crosstand Traffic and

563
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: then played the acoustic guitar and all along the watch Tower. Ah. So,

564
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: but then you come to the US, and then I

565
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: finally come to the US, and I've known a band

566
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: over here, which I tried to tell Chris Blackway, you

567
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: should really really signed this band if you want a

568
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: really great man, which was Delaneum Bunny. So I knew

569
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: all those people and I played and play guitar with

570
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: them for a while. Now were you you were also

571
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: in the band same time Clapton was in the band. Well, mhm,

572
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: Delaneum Bonny opened the Blind Faith to her. Actually where

573
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: I saw the Blind Faith tour in Chicago, taste was

574
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 1: the opener. But we opened a lot of the dates.

575
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: We were run a lot of the dates, and that's

576
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: where Eric got to really grab all, you know, get

577
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: to know all that. And were you cool with Eric? Yeah?

578
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean I was in the I mean I was

579
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: in the beginning of I was in the band of

580
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: Derek and the Dominoes at the very beginning. And how

581
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: did it? How did that end? Um? It mostly ended

582
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: because that's when Eric got into Heroin. There's a lot

583
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: of not a lot of not a lot was getting done,

584
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: and I was getting frustrated and just so, okay, this

585
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: is I can't deal with this. Who else was in

586
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: the band at that point, well, Jim Gordon and most

587
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: of the Delinean Bonny band, Bobby Gordon, Um, Karl Radl

588
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: And so how do you end up writing you only

589
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: you know and I know which is on the Delinean

590
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: Bonny album on tour. Well, I had written those that's

591
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: part of a loan together and those those eight songs

592
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: were written over a period of two years, and I

593
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 1: wrote only you Know and I Know up at Cass

594
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: Elliott's house. You ultimately did an album with Cass. How

595
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: did you meet Cass through Graham Parsons. Graham was the

596
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: type of person who knew everybody himself, right, and but

597
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: he at the time was on herrowin too, right, Um,

598
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,479
Speaker 1: I guess, I mean I was wasn't aware at the time,

599
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: and Cass was done with the mamas and the papas,

600
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: and what was your relationship with her? Well, the thing

601
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: was there was a couple living there at the house

602
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: up in Mulholland that I were really close friends of

603
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: mine from London, and I had no idea that they

604
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: were there, and so it was like, oh my god, people,

605
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: I actually know. This is great. So that was the

606
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: reason that I started going there a lot, spending a

607
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: lot of time there and right, and so how you

608
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: wrote only you Know and I knew there. I started

609
00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: writing it there and that and um, I think and

610
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: I was pretty much at the time, I was kind

611
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: of living at the Chateau Marma. She's where I wrote

612
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: I can't start worrying and finished only you know and

613
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: I know. Um, I think at one point Jim come

614
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: over or something somewhere. We got together and and he

615
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: had I had some music and a rhythm of something

616
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: that I was doing, and he had these lyrics, and

617
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: I read the lyrics and they went, oh, m okay,

618
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: they'll fit with it, and that became look at you,

619
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: look at me, okay. And then at the point, if

620
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: you're living in the Chateau Bauman, you must have had

621
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: some money from somewhere. Um, whether you know, there was royalties,

622
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: and there was stuff that I and I played show

623
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: you know, dates with them with Lillanium Bonny um. And

624
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: then I was also pretty much working on that record

625
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: deal with Blue Thumb. So how did that come together? Well,

626
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: when did you decide you wanted to do a solo album? Well,

627
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: I figured I was. I mean, that was the whole

628
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: object of it. I mean, there was I came here,

629
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: not nobody really, I mean that sort of when I

630
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: came here is pretty much when the traffic albums started

631
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: to come out over here. So nobody had a clue

632
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: who I was. Yeah, um, except I had those eight songs.

633
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: So how did it come together with Blue Thumb? Well,

634
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: like I said, that was through Group three because they

635
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: managed Llanium Bonny and that's how I got to that,

636
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: and that led to Blue Thumb. And did you think

637
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: that going to Blue Thumb was good? Or would you

638
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 1: have rather rather been at Warrener Brothers Columbia. Um at

639
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: the time, Um, I still like the idea of independent

640
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: labels because without a lot of artists on them, right,

641
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: But I figured I'd get a little more attention and

642
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: being on someplace where there's a huge run. To what

643
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: degree did they give you attention in the studio? Well? They,

644
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: I mean Tommy La Puma was basically who was a producer, producer,

645
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: just a real great guy. Um. And Tommy knew all

646
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,959
Speaker 1: those musicians that I finally finished at working with them there.

647
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: So did you have any idea that every did you

648
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: think everything was turning out? Well? All I knew was

649
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: was making a record. Okay, Well, the record came out

650
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 1: from the consumer side. It certainly have the multicolored plastic,

651
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: It had this three piano uh cover you could hang

652
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 1: up as a poster, and it was one of the

653
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: few albums of all time you could literally play from

654
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: beginning then there's not one cluck around the whole. The

655
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 1: great thing about it was when when when there really

656
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: was radio, which sadly is when the biggest reasons don't

657
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: put anything new at it anymore is nobody on. But

658
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: then you had DJs and people who were turning onto

659
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: the music. And the thing about one thing about that

660
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: album is it was very hard to see where the

661
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: groves where the church started in. Just put it on

662
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: and play the whole Sam a side so um yeah.

663
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: But then you got into a fight with Blue Thumb

664
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: right you didn't want came a hit. And because of

665
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: my experience with Blackwell and promises, certain things that he

666
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: made that he were nagged on. Is I just I said, okay, great,

667
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: and I want to you need to if you want

668
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: to do another one, you need to renegotiate the album

669
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: need my dear, And they wouldn't do it. And so

670
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: I was working on that second album. So it was Headkeeper,

671
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: the second album, Hey Keep. It was the second album

672
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: which is supposed to be a double album and R

673
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: and they just um, I kept reneging on it. And

674
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: I just said, I took the tapes and hit all

675
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: the tapes and put them somewhere all the masters. Okay,

676
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: So they went ahead and just put out an album

677
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: off the rough two tracks stuff that was left there.

678
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: And that's when I went in the press and I said,

679
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: don't buy the damn album. So this was before you

680
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: made your deal with Columbia. Yeah, okay, So where did

681
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: that leave you emotionally? When they put out all the

682
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: rough mixes? I was passed? And did you ever make

683
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: peace with them? With kras Now? No? Did you ever

684
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: get paid on that? Right? Those records? Who knows? He's

685
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: probably shuffled so many out of the back door. Who

686
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: knows what he did? I think they all everybody got screwed, right,

687
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm got screwed. Tommy got screwed. And so how did

688
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: you end up making a deal with Columbia? That's a

689
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: good question. UM, trying to think of a series of

690
00:48:51,080 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: events after after Um, I think it was after that

691
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: there was a fellow named Don Graham Don Sherman to

692
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: manage me for a little while. UM, I'm trying to

693
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: remember if it was him that that's how we got

694
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: to the Columbia deal. Okay, was were they? I mean

695
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: there was after the success of Alone Together, there was

696
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: gonna be somebody that was gonna stap of course, so

697
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: they were looking for you. Would you say, I would

698
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: imagine that, you know, I could have probably gone to

699
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: them or warners, or I probably could have gone to

700
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: all of them. So how was your experience being on Columbia?

701
00:49:49,520 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: Columbia is a very very experience, okayy um. I mean,

702
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: you know, I've always had freedom to do whatever I

703
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 1: want in the studio because I really don't. I tried

704
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: once to do something it was like that was stupid,

705
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: so um, and then there was a whole live side

706
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 1: of things trying to you know, become a I mean

707
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: for me, I had to hit I added Alone Together

708
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: hit record, but I really wasn't. I really wasn't prepared

709
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: to be a solo artist. So I mean we did

710
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: Colombia and we had um um, I forget what I

711
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: forget what to order? The first album was was It's

712
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 1: Like You Never Left? Was Was that the first one?

713
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gone for a while or something

714
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: or us to Dave Mason album. I think I think

715
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: Dave Mason was first, but I would have to look

716
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: it up myself. Yeah, and then you know, like the

717
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 1: problem with those the problem with the labels, which looking back,

718
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: I wish they were still well, I wish a number

719
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: of things were still around for artists, but they aren't.

720
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: Um um, I mean things you know, you were, you had.

721
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing was back then, when I was,

722
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: back in the days when we first started, somebody made

723
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: a decision and the whole and that moved the whole company.

724
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: And then as things progressed and we got into the

725
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:51,280
Speaker 1: bullshit of consensus, you know, well everybody's got opinion. Yeah, okay,

726
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: that's gonna knows too, but unlet's just somebody there. So

727
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 1: when you had somebody behind you that has some power

728
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 1: at the company, you know, you can pretty much get

729
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: something done. And then eventually it just you know, all

730
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: sort of and then every because then somebody would be

731
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: there from a little while and then they were gone.

732
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a great article back in the seventies,

733
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: early seventies on the front of the Wall Street Journal.

734
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: You always put that little little column there now to

735
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: the bottom. Used to be on the side, and they

736
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: used to be right there in the center of the page.

737
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, with all the news, and it was

738
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: always something a little different. And they did a thing

739
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: on the record business and they said, of all the

740
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: records put out by every label that exists in the US,

741
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: two make money. So you know, there's a lot of

742
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: cases where I mean, you got bands that did stuff

743
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: and made great albums, and the people that were there

744
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: to help and do it so only weren't there anymore.

745
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: So a lot of stuff was sholled. Um. Yeah, I

746
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: was scarious. The labels were the labels were an expensive

747
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: way to borrow money and try getting it back. Okay,

748
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: so how does we just disagree happening? How does that

749
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: become ahead? Um? Well, how does it become a hit? Um? Then?

750
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: And I did the I think at that point I

751
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: had I'm trying to think it's the I I get

752
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: because I don't specifically remember the times but the specific

753
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: order of things. But I think there was a period

754
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: where and now part of all some things I had,

755
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: some number of things happened. I and I went through

756
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: bankruptcy while you were signed to Columbia. I went through

757
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: a bankruptcy, and um, it was a legitimate bankruptcy. The

758
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: thing about a bankruptcy is is that the minute you

759
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: declared bankrupt, you're free and clear to do whatever you

760
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: want to go and do, unless as fraud involved, and

761
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: then you're screwed. But the part part about it is

762
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: within the recording agreements of the time, there was no

763
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: provision for that. And I really wanted to go with Ahmed,

764
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: and I was broke at the time. An Armored loaned

765
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: me fifty dollars personally and took me on the corporate

766
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: jet for ten days to Europe to a number of

767
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: rolling Stones consins, and then we got back and he said,

768
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: there's no precedent for this. We don't know what to do.

769
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,720
Speaker 1: I said, but if you can sign me it's legal,

770
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: it's fine, it said corporate attorneys. They don't know what

771
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: to do, he said. I just at the time, Clive

772
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: was at Columbia, and Clive had made an offer to

773
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: go back to Columbia, and Army said, just just go

774
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: take the offer. So so I went back to Columbia.

775
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: And that's when I had did um the letter Flow album,

776
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: which was again put out. It was put out colored album,

777
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: Blue and uh and had we just disagree on it.

778
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: And at the time I had a great band, Mike Finnegan,

779
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: Jim Kreeger, Gerald Johnson, and it was a song Jim

780
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: Kreeger had written and he brought it to me one

781
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: day said I got this and he said this, think

782
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: it's perfect for you. You know. It was like it

783
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: was just a great song. And so that's why I credit.

784
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: And then the guys, the the guys out on the

785
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: street were important, really important, the labels, the work, the

786
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: radio promotion, promotion guys, Mike Gustler one of them, UM,

787
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: a couple of other guys. They really helped make that

788
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: a hit. And Steve Popovitch was another great guy. UM

789
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: and Clive actually, I mean I always thought Clive is

790
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 1: a great record guy. It's a great ear for stuff

791
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: you're not you know. That whole to me, all that

792
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: whole asking him for over some bar mits for party

793
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: whatever it was, it was a lot of bullshit. I

794
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: think he's just getting I think that you had a

795
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: problem when you got too powerful, except of those places,

796
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: especially powerful or you do it couldn't make anything happen.

797
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:21,479
Speaker 1: He was screwed. So and then I tried a couple

798
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:29,439
Speaker 1: more things and with them and um Mariposta album, which

799
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: to me was a really good album. Um, I didn't

800
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: sell I mean, it went gold, but and then it

801
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: just sort of fell apart after that, and then Joe

802
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: Wizard did the last album I did, and Columbia did

803
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: nothing to push it was one of the reasons why

804
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: Joe Wizard left Columbia. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the story basically. Okay,

805
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: So now you're done with columb down with Colombia, do

806
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: you what do you think where you think you're at

807
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: at that point? We hit the eighties doing what I've

808
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: always done, playing playing live. So at this point in time,

809
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: how much do you work? How many days a year?

810
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean I've never stopped basically and then never stopped

811
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: really working. I mean the last couple of years is

812
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: that this year is probably the least I've worked. I

813
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: mean last year I took four months off first. I

814
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: haven't gotten out on So where can you play? Pretty

815
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: much anywhere in the world US, just the US, US,

816
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: some Canada, Okay, And you see a new audiencewer is

817
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: the same die hard Dave Mason. It's the saying, well,

818
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: it's just people who grow up with me. Basically, you know,

819
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: my my audience is basically fourdies to seventies. And do

820
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: you still occasionally I get you know, there's a young

821
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: kids come and usually they're like, Wow, it's all new

822
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: to them, but nobody's playing it to them. There's no nobody.

823
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: I mean, radio is just I mean, everybody talks about

824
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: the Internet and the power of the Internet. Terrestrial radio

825
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: is probably more powerful than the Internet. It's still a

826
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: very powerful media. So there's nobody there, so you don't

827
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: put It's why we don't put music out anymore. And

828
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: we're getting screwed worse by the Internet companies than we

829
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: were by the labels. Five thousand plays on on Pandora.

830
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: It's about saying your checks the same as the price

831
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: of a T shirt. I mean, half of our revenue

832
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: stream is gone, so or you're left with it's playing live.

833
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why I still play. I played for

834
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons, probably the same reason I gave

835
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: at the very beginning of the interview. I love I

836
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,919
Speaker 1: love playing, and I'm really good at disappointed at being

837
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: Dave Mason. And it's the only revenue stream that I am.

838
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: So you're gonna die on stage or at some point

839
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna miss the last show. And on that note, Dave,

840
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: thanks so much for doing the podcast I don't like

841
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: we can top. Thank you until next time. This is

842
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: Bob left Sex