Speaker 1: Whoa come back to the Fire Drill. On this week's episode, uh,
Speaker 1: Matt Janilla joined the three of us uh to have
Speaker 1: his takes on the Genesis. But before we get into that,
Speaker 1: Tuesday episode five of The Grind on our YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: fire Pick Collective YouTube, go there, UH subscribe, like comment,
Speaker 1: do all those things. Thanks to Golf Chech for their
Speaker 1: support of that awesome series. Uh get a lot of
Speaker 1: messages on Twitter about Hey, I like the full swing
Speaker 1: or it was okay, but I'd like to see some
Speaker 1: Well we have one, so go check it out. It's
Speaker 1: about the grinders and what life looks like for people
Speaker 1: not flying in private plants. Um. So this week's episode,
Speaker 1: Matt joined us Michael Allen myself and we talked John
Speaker 1: ram in his domination. We obviously talked Tiger Uh. He
Speaker 1: was the biggest story of the week despite Ron's Rom's
Speaker 1: dominant u Uh. We talked Bernhard Longer in his dominance
Speaker 1: on the Champions Tour. And so another great conversation with
Speaker 1: a lot of great stories from everybody. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: everything that I love about the Fire Drill. It's the
Speaker 1: four of us talking golf. Here we go that do
Speaker 1: my head can't get jan Nothing think what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: That can't get him. Now, Jen not to think what
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan ship Knuck back
Speaker 1: for another Fire Drill podcast, as always, joined by Michael
Speaker 1: Bamberger and Ryan French, and today we have the pleasure
Speaker 1: of Matt Janella joining us. We have Philadelphia, ocean side,
Speaker 1: and the heartland of America covered and I'm here in
Speaker 1: northern California, so we've all been tuned to to the
Speaker 1: final round at Riviera. John Ram is a monster. He's
Speaker 1: the Master's favorite. He's the clear number one in the world,
Speaker 1: no matter what some dumb math formulas says. Um command
Speaker 1: performance by John Ram? Uh, what do we I mean,
Speaker 1: we're talking about this guy all year. He seems like
Speaker 1: he's winning every week. But uh, Riviera is a place
Speaker 1: where Tiger Woods never won or Jack Nicholas and Ram
Speaker 1: actually mentioned that he was aware of that unusual statistic
Speaker 1: and uh said to be meaningful to pick one off here.
Speaker 1: It's an elevated event. There's all these different layers to this.
Speaker 1: But what do you guys think of this performance in
Speaker 1: this victory long past? Uh? The I mean, the guy
Speaker 1: is ridiculous it's it's like, I mean, I he's how
Speaker 1: is he not the favorite every time he tees it up?
Speaker 1: And no matter what course it is, I mean, he's Uh.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of debate on this show, on
Speaker 1: this podcast on others of like is camp Smith is
Speaker 1: John Ram? The best player in the world right now
Speaker 1: is Max Homa uh alst general, the dude is ridiculously
Speaker 1: good and uh a stone cold killer and complains more
Speaker 1: than any best offer in the world I've ever seen
Speaker 1: in my life. That's part of his charm. You know.
Speaker 1: If we don't get to see cam Smith playing on
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour anymore, if he were, he possibly give
Speaker 1: this guy a run for his money. But lacking that, uh,
Speaker 1: we don't have him. I mean this camp Smith makes
Speaker 1: puts from everywhere and uh probably puts better and chips
Speaker 1: better and pitches better than anybody in the game. Uh.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of really hard to know. Uh. It
Speaker 1: was a wonderful tournament. It's a great dis super Viera. Uh,
Speaker 1: but it kind of does make you miss some of
Speaker 1: the some of the people who aren't in the field.
Speaker 1: I'm not taking a single thing away from John Ram, uh,
Speaker 1: but it is a little Yeah, he's the runaway best
Speaker 1: call from the Putriot Tour right now. But the putret
Speaker 1: Tour is missing some big talents. That's a good point, Matt.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Well, I think it's it's Rom.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, Ram has proven himself to be
Speaker 1: the guy who to go to to get to number one,
Speaker 1: you've got to go through Rom and Scottie Scheffler went
Speaker 1: through Rom to get there. And I think other players
Speaker 1: are going to try to to compete with him, but
Speaker 1: it's it's it's his for the taking and keeping for
Speaker 1: the foreseeable future. He's going you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: there's going to be this long chunk of time where
Speaker 1: John Ram isn't able to perform at a very high level,
Speaker 1: regardless of the course, regardless of the conditions of the course,
Speaker 1: set up of the course, whether it's a major and
Speaker 1: elevated event, Ryder Cup. He's a beast. He you know,
Speaker 1: he's his focus is being number one and being the
Speaker 1: greatest of all time and winning as many you know,
Speaker 1: like he's a product of Sevy Tiger technology, you know, athleticism,
Speaker 1: he's got, He's got everything and and and a focus.
Speaker 1: I've told this story recently on one of these podcasts
Speaker 1: of adjacent day event and everyone's partying and frattonizing and
Speaker 1: having fun, and all he was doing was just hitting shots,
Speaker 1: competing against himself or competing against anybody wanting to compete
Speaker 1: against him. He's he's built for this and and I
Speaker 1: just don't see him, you know, letting go of that
Speaker 1: wheel anytime, since it's gonna be fun to watch. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a great point because Rory his for a while now,
Speaker 1: has seemed ambivalent about uh, you know, he wants he
Speaker 1: wants to de emphasize results and not let them define him.
Speaker 1: And he wants to you know, be uh an ambassador
Speaker 1: and a statesman and a dad and a husband and
Speaker 1: you know, a book critic. It seems like sometimes golfers
Speaker 1: way down the list for him, and a brand builder
Speaker 1: and a visionary and an a venture capitalist and all
Speaker 1: these things. Rom just wants to win tournaments. He wants
Speaker 1: to be number one. Like his life is simple and
Speaker 1: um as you say, Matt like he he he doesn't
Speaker 1: try and hide from it. He's he's very open with
Speaker 1: his ambition, and I think that frees him up, you know,
Speaker 1: where Roy is almost conflicted, like, oh, it's golf too important.
Speaker 1: And uh, for Ram it's like it's it's the sun
Speaker 1: and the moon for him. And that's what I like.
Speaker 1: I mean that it's always frustrating when you have a
Speaker 1: massive talent who doesn't chase it as hard as they
Speaker 1: could write in any sport um and sometimes Roy it
Speaker 1: feels that way Rory, but with Rom it's like, just
Speaker 1: bring it on, man. He wants it every week. And
Speaker 1: to me, I mean that's why I love and a
Speaker 1: great athlete. Alan. Where is Rom with he still managed
Speaker 1: by Steve Layers any? Yes? And does Lloyd still managed Phil? Yes?
Speaker 1: And what what are the other relationships there? He's he's
Speaker 1: good friends who hills her? And yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: Tim Mickelson was Rom's agent until he decided to become
Speaker 1: Phil's full time caddy. And I mean I asked Rom
Speaker 1: about this not that long ago, and uh, I guess
Speaker 1: it was in Cappalua and he said, he's still friends
Speaker 1: with Phil. You know, they they'll still play recreational golf.
Speaker 1: He still respects him. They just have a strong disagreement on,
Speaker 1: you know, where to make their living. But you know
Speaker 1: one thing that's been impressive about Rom is in this
Speaker 1: very um acrimonious time for professional golf. He's been a
Speaker 1: voice of reason and and you know, gentleness, and he's
Speaker 1: been conciliatory. You know, he's he he it's been genuine
Speaker 1: from him where he said, you know, I wish we
Speaker 1: could all be together. I'd like these guys on the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup team. And I was just talking to a
Speaker 1: a live golfer who must remain anonymous unfortunately, and he
Speaker 1: was basically like funk Rory, like that guy. Were so
Speaker 1: tired of his sanctimony. But Ram Rom's cool, you know,
Speaker 1: I seem around He's really cool to all of us.
Speaker 1: I thought it was it was just that's the feeling
Speaker 1: a lot of the guys on that tour. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: the Ram is as state above the fray, even as
Speaker 1: he's you know, been a strong advocate for the tour
Speaker 1: and he's he's you know, he's his his his allegiance
Speaker 1: to the tour, his fealty to the tour has been
Speaker 1: very important. But um, he's managed to very to walk
Speaker 1: a very fine line where he can still say nice
Speaker 1: things about to live guys. You can still hope that
Speaker 1: we can put the game back together. And and I
Speaker 1: think he's kind of been elevating all this as as
Speaker 1: just a voice of reason. He's sort of Dustin Johnson
Speaker 1: like in that regard, one might say Dustin Johnson is
Speaker 1: to America with John ram is too to to Europe.
Speaker 1: You know, just sort of people like him, even though
Speaker 1: uh they don't resent his talent and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and he just walks a fine line of being honest
Speaker 1: and standing for golf, which there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: that right now. Yeah. No, nobody has shown really any
Speaker 1: any ill will towards Dustin for going to live, which
Speaker 1: is amazing. But part of it is because he very
Speaker 1: publicly resigned his PGA tour membership in the in the beginning,
Speaker 1: and he didn't sign on to the lawsuits. And that's
Speaker 1: why a lot of the tour guys been bitter because
Speaker 1: they're getting sued by their ex colleagues and and they
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of them and they wanted both ways.
Speaker 1: They want to play in the FedEx Cup, they want this,
Speaker 1: they want that. You know, Dustin has never asked for
Speaker 1: any of that. He's he's always just said, hey man,
Speaker 1: I took the money, I'm having fun and um, and
Speaker 1: he's he's made his position very clear. So I think
Speaker 1: you're right. No one's mad at at Rom, no one's
Speaker 1: mad at Dustin. Everyone else is kind of caught in
Speaker 1: the shrapnel. But Ryan, have you ever had a chance
Speaker 1: to get to a riviera? I did. Uh. I candied
Speaker 1: for Mark in a pro am last year. Uh. For
Speaker 1: those that are listening that don't know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of pro ams that happened that are not associated with
Speaker 1: the like the actual Wednesday program that most people know. So, Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pros that get paid to Mark.
Speaker 1: I got paid three to thousand dollars and uh, and
Speaker 1: we Mark and I talked about it this week. Is uh.
Speaker 1: I mean it just shows the top players how good
Speaker 1: they are. I think Mark shot like one hunder or
Speaker 1: something like that, and he like hit it. That course
Speaker 1: is so hard and like to think that whatever he
Speaker 1: finished that it's just ridiculous. The place was ridiculously good.
Speaker 1: So for the for the three of you guys, and
Speaker 1: so all four of us have been there, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure Matt Nollen uh like you've probably been there lots
Speaker 1: over the years. Uh. What do you think of the course? Uh?
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of ways to say this is
Speaker 1: the start of the PGA Tour, but getting to Riviera
Speaker 1: is a staple of the PGA Tour season. What what
Speaker 1: was it like for you guys seeing the golf course
Speaker 1: on TV? Go ahead, Matt, and I know you have
Speaker 1: some feelings on this. No, I mean, I love the
Speaker 1: golf course. I love I love the tournament. I love
Speaker 1: how it separates players who are playing great from players
Speaker 1: who are not playing great. You know, over four days,
Speaker 1: you know, four rounds, all the different shots you have
Speaker 1: to do, you have to hit, all the different great
Speaker 1: iron shots you have to hit. Where you miss matters,
Speaker 1: I mean in so many way, shapes and forms. Um.
Speaker 1: I just it's Golden Age, Golden Age architecture at its finest.
Speaker 1: It's it gets lauded by the by the architectural geeks,
Speaker 1: but it also gets appreciated by people who just love
Speaker 1: love great golf. It gets, you know, gets it's got
Speaker 1: respect from the greatest players of the game, from the
Speaker 1: modern day architects. It's marveled for. It's marveled at for
Speaker 1: all the right reasons. I love. You know, it's got
Speaker 1: controversial or you know, the tenth hole, it's elf creates
Speaker 1: so much great debate. Um, and you know, Home averting
Speaker 1: it all four days. Of course he did because he appreciates, understands,
Speaker 1: you know, respects great architecture, strategy. He's a thinking you know,
Speaker 1: he's a thinker out there on the golf course. You know,
Speaker 1: I just I love Rivera. You know, I think Daniel
Speaker 1: Rapp report said, oh, this is the greatest course of
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour season, and there's not a close second.
Speaker 1: I disagree with that. I think just at the A
Speaker 1: T and T, you have three golf courses that are
Speaker 1: in the conversation whether or not you think pebbles better
Speaker 1: than Rivera, or Spyglass is better than Pebble, or Monterey
Speaker 1: Peninsula Shore is in the conversation. I think they're in
Speaker 1: the conversation. I I love Rivera for all that it provides,
Speaker 1: um and and I wish we had more of it
Speaker 1: on the tour where it's not necessarily just about like
Speaker 1: brute strength and length and you have to move it
Speaker 1: right and left and long and short. UM. I think
Speaker 1: it's it is. It's a fabulous venue. Thankfully we get
Speaker 1: to see the best players play it. It's a private
Speaker 1: golf course, not a lot of us, of any of
Speaker 1: us whatever us is gets to play it. So it's
Speaker 1: fun to watch it and and and and enjoy it
Speaker 1: every every year. I agree with every word of that.
Speaker 1: But you know, watching today the you know the fourth
Speaker 1: hold that that very damn part three. You know, only
Speaker 1: fourteen percent in the field actually in regulation and it's
Speaker 1: just a bad hole. They got to redo that green,
Speaker 1: Like you can't have a part three, but no one
Speaker 1: can hold the green and so that's a little blemish.
Speaker 1: And ten, I mean I've always you say, Fort Dollan,
Speaker 1: did you say fourteen percent of the players hit that green? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a joke. I mean that Shinka kills level joke. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I mean that that's on that's a mis factor.
Speaker 1: That's a modern day green speed. But you know, and
Speaker 1: things have to be things have to evolve and adjust
Speaker 1: and maybe they look at those numbers say okay, we
Speaker 1: have to adjust it. You know, a tweak there would
Speaker 1: be very helpful. Even the problem with ten is that
Speaker 1: the green has gotten so extreme. I mean, what's great
Speaker 1: about a a drive all part four is you can
Speaker 1: actually drive the green, right, nobody can drive the green there.
Speaker 1: It's impossible to hold it. So then the smart play
Speaker 1: like is just to lay it up out there to
Speaker 1: the left, and it's basically now like a fifty yard
Speaker 1: Part three. You just laid up a little short left,
Speaker 1: you pitch it on and okay, but but hold let
Speaker 1: me just stop you there for a second, because if
Speaker 1: you say it's a drivable part four, maybe it's not
Speaker 1: a drivable far it's just a short for short for
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's drivable. Just because it's short doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you should be able to actually drive it, I guess,
Speaker 1: But I mean people used to try, and but now
Speaker 1: it's just like the penalty that it's so extreme around
Speaker 1: that green if you're if you're out of position, you
Speaker 1: can easily make a six. And so the plays become
Speaker 1: more and more just to go out there to the
Speaker 1: left and just kind of pitch it on and um.
Speaker 1: So I think you're right. I mean, you're right. MAT's
Speaker 1: how you define it. But if you if you're twenty
Speaker 1: years ago, it was a drive all part four and
Speaker 1: people try to drive it, and you could drive it,
Speaker 1: and and now it's just like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think that you talk about evolution because of the equipment
Speaker 1: and everything else. I think that hole is evolved for
Speaker 1: the worst so that's my look, complaint Riviera. You have
Speaker 1: two holes that are very borderline, and it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a fun debate. I threw out there on Twitter today
Speaker 1: and a bunch of people wrote back saying, that's why
Speaker 1: I love it. You know, the game's too easy for
Speaker 1: these guys. I want them to be and I'll give
Speaker 1: you Alan, I'll give you a three I'll give you
Speaker 1: a third hole. How about eighteen was slatoris and driver
Speaker 1: in a sandwich? You know that's a joke. I know
Speaker 1: it's I remember I remember um Robert Allen be hitting
Speaker 1: a forward in there to win a playoff back in
Speaker 1: the day in the nineties, Like that's not really raining,
Speaker 1: and there was like nine it was a little chilly. Nevertheless,
Speaker 1: I mean I put out a tweet about ten that
Speaker 1: I don't have an opinion because I saw I saw
Speaker 1: so many articles, tweets, uh, long form deep dives. I
Speaker 1: was just like, I just like everybody to know I
Speaker 1: have no opinion about number ten. I don't know, it's fun.
Speaker 1: It's just all did you console with Jeff Ogilvie's mother
Speaker 1: And I just was like, hey, you know what, I
Speaker 1: don't care about number fourteen. At Detroit Country Club. You
Speaker 1: know why, I just don't care about it. I just don't.
Speaker 1: That's totally valid. I mean, it's the ultimate first world
Speaker 1: problem that seventy eight articles about a fucking Paul Just
Speaker 1: can we just move on with it? A right? We can?
Speaker 1: Or make it too or make a nine and let's
Speaker 1: go to the eleventh hole. Okay, eleven is a great
Speaker 1: by the way. I mean, I love that, right, you're
Speaker 1: absolutely right, But it does speak to something larger about how,
Speaker 1: you know, we've got these ancient playing fields that are
Speaker 1: a hundred years old or more. They're the most beloved
Speaker 1: courses we have. And to Michael's point about you know,
Speaker 1: flip wedges in the eighteen, I mean, as the game
Speaker 1: is always evolving, and of course, like ruviea is hemmed in,
Speaker 1: they can't they can't, they can't stretch it at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's nowhere to go. And so it brings
Speaker 1: up these larger points about the equipment, about the U.
Speaker 1: S J Being asleep at the wheel, and it makes
Speaker 1: you know, it makes you wonder about the you know,
Speaker 1: the feutre like I mean, and Riviera is now this
Speaker 1: is even more relevant because it's gonna host the Olympics. Um,
Speaker 1: it's got a lot of big time. It's got the
Speaker 1: US Women's Open coming, like it's on a it's going
Speaker 1: to be a stage, like that's one of the elite
Speaker 1: and the entire sport. And so if it's being compromised
Speaker 1: by all these different factors, it's it demands a little examination,
Speaker 1: to your point. So an interesting thing about Tenant Revere
Speaker 1: and I can't believe I'm gonna say this because I
Speaker 1: just said I don't care about it, and I'm why
Speaker 1: I care about him. I don't care. But but one
Speaker 1: thing Scott Foss that for those that don't know decade,
Speaker 1: like he kind of changed the game, Like everybody used
Speaker 1: to lay up or a large majority of players used
Speaker 1: to lay up on that whole and then he did
Speaker 1: all the shot link thing, and it's like it plays
Speaker 1: a half a stroke easier if you go at the green,
Speaker 1: and now everybody goes at the green. And now it
Speaker 1: might have changed this year, but like it's crazy what
Speaker 1: modern technology not only on the course but off the course,
Speaker 1: Like no one had access to every single shot and
Speaker 1: what that player made from that spot. And so Scott
Speaker 1: Foss said, is like, hey, here's the facts. Like, if
Speaker 1: you go at the green, you're going to make it
Speaker 1: half a stroke less over four days. Then if you
Speaker 1: lay up, that's not you know, he's made effectual. So
Speaker 1: the technology that avancements are not just the club in
Speaker 1: the ball, it's access to those numbers that make the
Speaker 1: decision mathematical. That's a fantastic point. I mean, it also
Speaker 1: speaks to how hard that green is it Guys laying
Speaker 1: up to a sand wed, you know, full sing swing
Speaker 1: sand wed, like they can't even hold the green from
Speaker 1: eight yards or whatever. So it's it's an interesting debate
Speaker 1: that we don't have to continue any further, but it's
Speaker 1: an an annual one. I think we should. I'd really
Speaker 1: like to hear more one. Just kidding, all right, we well,
Speaker 1: no disrespect to John rom but in some at least
Speaker 1: Thursday and Friday, i'd say the star of and possibly
Speaker 1: even Saturday when you played great, the star of the
Speaker 1: week was the host Tiger Woods. And you know, his
Speaker 1: his first time at a at a real tournament, uh
Speaker 1: in quite a while, and uh you know he grounded out. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: he's over par on Sunday, which is continues his trend.
Speaker 1: Where as the week goes on, he just he just
Speaker 1: loses vigor and and and it's more more of a
Speaker 1: struggle with his with his ankle and his his leg
Speaker 1: and his body. And so there was just enough flashes
Speaker 1: there where you know, it looks like Tiger Woods can
Speaker 1: still play golf. But for him to walk, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty miles across four days and all the preparation that
Speaker 1: needs to be tournaments sharp, you know that. I think
Speaker 1: it's an open question. But Michael, you wrote a very
Speaker 1: insightful piece on fire Pit Collective dot com ahead of
Speaker 1: the tournament um and one of the takeaways was, you know,
Speaker 1: it's Tiger Woods. You can never underestimate him, so be careful,
Speaker 1: do so at your own peril. But what what did
Speaker 1: you make of his performance? It had so much the
Speaker 1: performance more just looking at the man, where he is
Speaker 1: in his life and how much he still needs competitive
Speaker 1: golf in his life, because like Michael Jordan's and many
Speaker 1: others that we've seen over the years, it's really his
Speaker 1: defined his life. And uh, he he is a tremendous philanthropist.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure all of us have have read
Speaker 1: a lot of about what he's done, and he seems
Speaker 1: to be very devoted to his to his kids and
Speaker 1: putting architecture, business and all the rest. But he's a
Speaker 1: competitive golfer. Forty seven is not old today if you
Speaker 1: haven't had all the setbacks to your body that the
Speaker 1: Tiger has had. So it's it's kind of actually heartbreaking
Speaker 1: to see how important it is to him, but it's
Speaker 1: also just part and parcel of the life of the athlete,
Speaker 1: in this particular athlete, I think it's it's. Uh, I
Speaker 1: don't see an easy path forward for him to be
Speaker 1: really truthful about it. I don't. I don't know what
Speaker 1: really is going to bring deep meaning to his life
Speaker 1: because this is probably pretty much as good as he
Speaker 1: can play right now. I mean, after that deep thought,
Speaker 1: what do I do? What are you following that up with?
Speaker 1: But uh, it is I think it. I just wrote
Speaker 1: an article. I love Tiger for different reasons, and I'll
Speaker 1: take it from a different perspective, like he's just such
Speaker 1: an icon in the game. The guy barely made the
Speaker 1: cut for most of the day Friday was outside the
Speaker 1: cut um and he is always the needle and whatever
Speaker 1: tour he's on he is going to is going to
Speaker 1: be the tour that people want to be on. And
Speaker 1: and no matter what, this, whether it's realistic or not,
Speaker 1: today gives everyone hope that in April he can win
Speaker 1: the Masters again and then we'll all be locked in
Speaker 1: and he changes the game. That's all there is to it.
Speaker 1: Like I tweeted jokingly, like I took a picture of
Speaker 1: he was one below the cut line. It's like, hey, all,
Speaker 1: you guys are playing for a lot of money because
Speaker 1: of the guy there's one outside the cut line. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's time to make some bogies. But um on my
Speaker 1: article on fire Pit Collective dot com that will be
Speaker 1: out today tonight is I think he's just matured as
Speaker 1: a human being. And he's a flawed human being like us,
Speaker 1: but he's just an important part, so important part of
Speaker 1: the game. And his little interaction with Justin after the
Speaker 1: first round and the way he does interviews. Now, I
Speaker 1: just think that he's grown up a lot, uh, and
Speaker 1: it's just fun to see him out there now. But
Speaker 1: you guys, you know, in some ways, I think I
Speaker 1: would agree with you, Ryan. I think he's growing up.
Speaker 1: We all we're all on our own path of maturation perspective,
Speaker 1: you know, life altering experiences, whether those be car accidents
Speaker 1: or someone close in your life dies, or something happens
Speaker 1: that rocks you to the core and makes you think differently.
Speaker 1: We have again covering Tiger since I know Michael, We've
Speaker 1: all we've all been basically covering him in some way,
Speaker 1: shape or form. Um. I I there, there's Tiger the golfer, competitor.
Speaker 1: There's Tiger sort of the dad and man. There's Tiger
Speaker 1: the buddy and and and jokester. You know, there's Tiger
Speaker 1: the businessman. There's is all kinds of layers to this guy. Um,
Speaker 1: for me, I've just continued, I've kind of I've stopped
Speaker 1: looking to Tiger as the guy, you know, who I
Speaker 1: want to idolize and marvel at in anything other than
Speaker 1: just the competitor. Tiger the competitor and what he's done
Speaker 1: for the game of golf and what he does for
Speaker 1: us when he's on camera trying to beat his his peers,
Speaker 1: what he's done to to create the John Rams and
Speaker 1: the Max Homas and the Justin Thomas is and cultivating
Speaker 1: this engaging with this next generation. I'm I'm all for it.
Speaker 1: I think watching him over the course of the last
Speaker 1: four days at Riviera. Do what he did, Shoot what
Speaker 1: he shot, Hit it three and thirty five yards, you know,
Speaker 1: drive it by all these guys, swing speed. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: every time he tease it up, I'm with Tiger. I
Speaker 1: think he can potentially win win a golf to him,
Speaker 1: Ben Crendaw had no business winning the Masters the second time.
Speaker 1: He had no game. Nothing was going to say that
Speaker 1: he was capable of doing that. He caught magic, Harvey Peenix,
Speaker 1: Funeral came in Boom won the Masters. Jack Nicholas had
Speaker 1: no business winning the eighties six Master. He was done.
Speaker 1: He came back in one one another major champion, you know,
Speaker 1: Darren Clark done one an Open. Cheff Adam Scott was done.
Speaker 1: He was flawed. He can't win wins a major. Che
Speaker 1: like Justin Rose at the age of thirty two wins
Speaker 1: the US Open like he was gone again. I keep saying,
Speaker 1: if they all can do it, then why can't Tiger.
Speaker 1: You know Tom Watson at the age of fifty nine
Speaker 1: almost won an Open championship. So if Tom Watson can
Speaker 1: do it at the age of fifty nine, you don't
Speaker 1: think Tiger Woods can't. Of course he can. If he
Speaker 1: can hit it three thirty and be Tiger Woods and
Speaker 1: finished four rounds like he just did at a very
Speaker 1: hard walking golf course, then you know I'm here to
Speaker 1: watch him go on and win another PGA Tour event
Speaker 1: and or majors or do whatever he wants to do
Speaker 1: in the game of golf. If I'm looking to Tiger
Speaker 1: Woods to be a role model for me as a man,
Speaker 1: or for my kids to role model him as like
Speaker 1: how he conducts himself off the course, or if he
Speaker 1: happens to get caught sliding a tan packs to Justin
Speaker 1: Thomas in a very private sort of jovial uh, you know,
Speaker 1: buddy to buddy, little side joke that obviously he orchestrated
Speaker 1: well before you know, walking off that t he knew
Speaker 1: he was going to drive it by these guys, and
Speaker 1: he set that up in which he was gonna and
Speaker 1: it happened to get caught by a camera that zoomed
Speaker 1: in and realized, oh, he was passing him a tampon.
Speaker 1: It's like, did did it surprise anybody on this podcast
Speaker 1: that Tiger Woods is like a sense of humor is
Speaker 1: always been like the least impressive thing about Tiger Woods.
Speaker 1: He has been laughed at by people his whole life,
Speaker 1: regardless of whether the jokes are funny or not. He's
Speaker 1: not you know, he can say something funny. We all can.
Speaker 1: He's just not a comedian. He's not who I'm looking
Speaker 1: to like. He is the most awkward guy I've ever
Speaker 1: one of the most awkward people I've ever been around.
Speaker 1: But I'm marveled at his competitive nature, is dog and
Speaker 1: approach to trying to be the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1: I marveled at his two wins in fifteen majors. But
Speaker 1: when he does ship like that, it's like, yeah, that's Tiger.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, you know, I'm you know, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: we don't have to debate the merits of whether or
Speaker 1: not it was a funny joke. Um, but it is
Speaker 1: revealing and certainly there there's been a lot of discussion
Speaker 1: about it, and the comment is amused me the most
Speaker 1: on Twitter is it it was just a private joke
Speaker 1: between two guys. It's like Tiger, more than anybody knows
Speaker 1: that every single thing he does or says is always
Speaker 1: going to be looked at through a magnifying glass. Believe
Speaker 1: he's in the middle of a tournament and he no
Speaker 1: matter how SMOOTHI is. People are gonna see something some handoff.
Speaker 1: The whole point is to get a reaction from justin
Speaker 1: someone's gonna catch it. They zooming on everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: remember his his his chip two years ago. He tried
Speaker 1: to hide that under the scarf, like he should know
Speaker 1: more than anyone that it's going to get found out.
Speaker 1: And as you say, man, it was clearly like you know,
Speaker 1: how long is he carrying in his pocket for holes?
Speaker 1: Like what if it fallen out and he's going to
Speaker 1: mark a putt? Like the whole thing is just like
Speaker 1: so ridiculous and sophomoric and um, but it is revealing
Speaker 1: of who Tiger really is. And we've known it all along.
Speaker 1: Go back to g Q at the beginning. Why he
Speaker 1: stopped hating the press started hating the press in the beginning.
Speaker 1: He's just he's got like this odd sense of humor. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's basically it's one of things that happens when you
Speaker 1: become famous. Is I think your development basically stops when
Speaker 1: you become famous. Whatever age that is. So for Tiger
Speaker 1: it was definitely twenty, but possibly sixteen or seventeen, Like
Speaker 1: he's never really matured beyond that, and there's little glimpses
Speaker 1: of it in opportune times, like what just happened. And
Speaker 1: you know, we're not gonna pretend it was an international crisis,
Speaker 1: but it was just kind of dumb and it it
Speaker 1: definitely be smirched. It was otherwise an impressive performance. But
Speaker 1: I will say I don't fully agree with what you said, Matt.
Speaker 1: Like all those guys you cited who who pulled off
Speaker 1: unlikely major championship victories, their bodies were sound now, their
Speaker 1: golf games could come and go um, and they had
Speaker 1: things going on their lives, whether it's Jack facing the
Speaker 1: bankruptcy or Ben crunch I was losing his his his instructor.
Speaker 1: But Tiger, can he wake up four days in a
Speaker 1: row after three or four or seven or eight days
Speaker 1: of preparation? Can you wake up four days in a
Speaker 1: row at a major championship where his body feels good
Speaker 1: and he's able to make the swings he wants and
Speaker 1: he's not exhausted by the last five holes, And like,
Speaker 1: look at Ben Hogan, I mean, majors, did you went
Speaker 1: after the car crash? That that is the precedent. But
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, there's clearly still some magic and
Speaker 1: Tiger's hand some of those shots he hit. He remains
Speaker 1: a great tactician, and a lot of these these majors
Speaker 1: become more like chess than anything else, so you can
Speaker 1: never count them out. But you know, if you just
Speaker 1: if you look at at his results in all these
Speaker 1: events since has come back, he just gets generally worse
Speaker 1: as the week goes on and Sundays when he's really struggling,
Speaker 1: and um, so maybe that can change, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like what's going on in his body can initially
Speaker 1: be rehabbed in a gym, right It's not like I
Speaker 1: don't think he can make his ankle stronger, or he
Speaker 1: would have by now. He's had a lot of time,
Speaker 1: right Like, it feels like he's probably as good as
Speaker 1: he can be physically right now. I don't know how
Speaker 1: he gets twenty or or sixty year eight percent better,
Speaker 1: which is what what he probably needs. So obviously I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not a physical trainer. I just play one
Speaker 1: on the internet. But um, it's hard to imagine Tiger
Speaker 1: is gonna get any better physically, and he can only
Speaker 1: get worse. So whether he's got four days in a
Speaker 1: row of really clean golf, which is what's gonna take
Speaker 1: to beat John rom right now. I mean also eight
Speaker 1: thousand yards on at Augusta National when you count it
Speaker 1: all in, I mean, look at how optimized rom is
Speaker 1: and Max Homa and camp Smith he'll be at the
Speaker 1: Majors and Ry McIlroy. Tiger has to be all those guys.
Speaker 1: They're not all to have a bad week at the
Speaker 1: same time, Like he's just given up so much. Um
Speaker 1: So I just want to clip this. I just want
Speaker 1: to clip this Jake, Clip this Jake, and he's this
Speaker 1: is going to be the lead on the Sunday Night
Speaker 1: Masters when I slipping on the green jacket. I've been
Speaker 1: wrong before. None of what you're going to say now
Speaker 1: is going to be it part of the clip that
Speaker 1: we show. So it's too late, so you've already you've
Speaker 1: already said it. We're not gonna add like but but
Speaker 1: but you know, no but but nothing like everyone's gonna
Speaker 1: destroy you guys when we just take that minute and
Speaker 1: to half like he impossible, no way, he can't do it,
Speaker 1: And it's just like, oh, Tiger's putting another green jacket.
Speaker 1: I didn't say it's impossible. I didn't say he can't
Speaker 1: do it again. And none of what you're about to
Speaker 1: say it's gonna help the clip. This this golf course
Speaker 1: has always been his nemesis. I think just if you
Speaker 1: look at his ability, his swing speed, is ability to
Speaker 1: move the golf ball, and given his competitive nature and
Speaker 1: his hands and his ability to get the ball in
Speaker 1: the hole and what he does, you know under pressure,
Speaker 1: I mean eight two and fifteen. Add up all the guys,
Speaker 1: will you just talk about list them, go through all
Speaker 1: their You can't add up their credentials to get to
Speaker 1: eighty two and fifteen. If Tiger could take a golf
Speaker 1: cart in the Major's, I would say he's much more dangerous.
Speaker 1: He has to walk thirty miles in four days. He
Speaker 1: can't get from the parking lot for the first team
Speaker 1: without a major pimp swag because he's just he can't.
Speaker 1: He's got a huge limp. Like do you guys follow
Speaker 1: the Twitter account old takes exposed of course for moments
Speaker 1: just like this right here, that clip is going to
Speaker 1: go viral of like's if he couldn't took a card,
Speaker 1: or he can't do it, or he can't walk there,
Speaker 1: and then they'll like it. It'll just be like, oh,
Speaker 1: here's Alan and Matt talking about how Tiger alright to
Speaker 1: be wrong. Michael, what are your thoughts if well, now
Speaker 1: you've you've started, You've started eighty two and fifteen a
Speaker 1: number of times. Those are iconic, iconic numbers. Can you
Speaker 1: imagine if he can get to eighty three and sixteen.
Speaker 1: If he gets eighty three and sixteen, then of course
Speaker 1: he's got snead. But then I think the math is
Speaker 1: going to change and people are going to go back
Speaker 1: to the eighties six math, which was oh, Jack nikl
Speaker 1: was just one of his twenty major and I'm by
Speaker 1: that math, Tiger will be up to right help me
Speaker 1: out rrect he would, He's still behind Jack. But one, okay,
Speaker 1: the races on the race has been on for a
Speaker 1: quarter century. I mean, listen, it would be spectacular. I
Speaker 1: was on the grounds of nineteen Augusta and it was epic,
Speaker 1: and I never thought that would happen. And I said
Speaker 1: that ahead of that for years, Like I think I said,
Speaker 1: at some point, you know, after all the surgeries and
Speaker 1: the chip yips and shooting eighty five the memorial, and
Speaker 1: you know that humongous gouge you made on the first
Speaker 1: tea box at St. Andrew's and all that. I mean,
Speaker 1: as iftographers can come back and win any tournament, even
Speaker 1: the Bob Hope. It'll be one of the greatest accomplishens
Speaker 1: of his career. And not only he won that, he
Speaker 1: won the Tour Championship, he won the freaking Masters. Like,
Speaker 1: I've been wrong before, and that's why I've never definitive,
Speaker 1: like you're trying to make it out to be Ryan,
Speaker 1: I always leave a little wiggle room again, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: they can edit out that wiggle room all and you
Speaker 1: still get buried. We're not running any of this. The
Speaker 1: clip that we're going to take out is very definitive.
Speaker 1: I would. People being people, they they'll say things like, oh,
Speaker 1: does old Ship Nuck know that's not called the Bob
Speaker 1: Hope anymore. I think he knows, but he'll still make
Speaker 1: it out to think like still, Michael, I would. I'd
Speaker 1: be curious just to get your thoughts, given your place
Speaker 1: in the game and your perspective. But Tiger the man
Speaker 1: and evolution and the the you know, the the odd
Speaker 1: sense of humor and the incident with Justin Thomas and
Speaker 1: what what what what's your what are your thoughts on
Speaker 1: all that. You know, the overall statement on Tiger will
Speaker 1: always be what it was from the beginning, from the
Speaker 1: most unlikely background, with a mother who's an immigrant, a
Speaker 1: father who faced so much racism as a kid, who
Speaker 1: grew up playing not country clup golf but military golf,
Speaker 1: who came at the game with a completely different perspective
Speaker 1: and dominated like nobody has ever dominated any sport ever.
Speaker 1: Really secretary would probably be the only thing that comes
Speaker 1: to mind. So he Kelly Slater, Okay, that's interesting. Um,
Speaker 1: not knowledge to to know that, but I'll take your
Speaker 1: word for that. But I think he'll go down in
Speaker 1: history that all that other stuff will just sort of
Speaker 1: fall by the wayside, and we'll think of him as
Speaker 1: we think of you know, the great boxer years of
Speaker 1: of yesteryear, as just a completely dominant athlete for whom
Speaker 1: the mindset was everything. And you take all the talent
Speaker 1: in the world and then have the mindset of um,
Speaker 1: I will not accept defeat. And we are definitely including
Speaker 1: this week seeing it still to this day he nearly
Speaker 1: killed himself in that car crash. That car crash is
Speaker 1: completely inexplicable, and we don't need to get into it
Speaker 1: because we've we've done it before. And to come back
Speaker 1: and just to be able to play four rounds of
Speaker 1: golf and beat a lot of people, beat everybody who
Speaker 1: didn't make the cut, and then beat you know, twenty
Speaker 1: or so other players. I don't know the exact number.
Speaker 1: Is a remarkable statement to the broad thing of what
Speaker 1: we're saying. There is no quit in this person's mentality,
Speaker 1: and uh, he separated himself from the crowd forever on
Speaker 1: that basis alone. You don't, Michael, you don't think that
Speaker 1: all the off the core stuff is going to be
Speaker 1: part of how tires thought of. Because it's certainly it's
Speaker 1: it's l evaded Jack Nicholas in that he was such
Speaker 1: a classy champion and he was such a gracious loser
Speaker 1: and tigers both of those things too. But when you
Speaker 1: know the the totality of why Nicholas has been so
Speaker 1: revered for so long, it was just the way he
Speaker 1: he lived his life with with Barbara and the kids
Speaker 1: and all this and that, and um, you know, for
Speaker 1: better and for worse, it becomes part of how athletes
Speaker 1: are remembered. And you don't think that's gonna be I mean,
Speaker 1: because when I watched Tiger now I feel a deep
Speaker 1: pang of melancholy because he's just destroyed his body in
Speaker 1: so many different ways, and it's been mostly willful and
Speaker 1: and like it's the ultimate what if in in Gulf
Speaker 1: is would take away the sex scandal? How many how
Speaker 1: many majors does does Tiger have? I mean that sent
Speaker 1: that derailed his career in a profound way, and whatever
Speaker 1: he was searching for in the kill house with the
Speaker 1: green berets when he hurt his knee, and you know,
Speaker 1: possible he busted as Achilles and all these things like
Speaker 1: this all has played got him to where he is now.
Speaker 1: And you know the car accident, uh, you know, as
Speaker 1: he always said, it's in the police report, it isn't
Speaker 1: the police report. I mean that pedal was held down
Speaker 1: a force throughout the whole thing. That's you can't say
Speaker 1: he fell asleep or he was just he was just
Speaker 1: texting like something really dark cap in there. And you
Speaker 1: know he's just his It's a monumental career even without
Speaker 1: without all that others. But to me, it's the ultimate
Speaker 1: what if. And um, so you know he's he's a
Speaker 1: year older what than Jack was when he won the Masters,
Speaker 1: But like Jack and Arnie, they were hailing hardy into
Speaker 1: their sixties and seventies. I mean, they could still swing
Speaker 1: the club, and they could still they could still walk
Speaker 1: golf courses and in competitive golf was part of their
Speaker 1: life still, and that Tigers taken that away from himself
Speaker 1: in a large part. I mean, so, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I I agree that the Tiger's the most dominant golf
Speaker 1: has ever lived, despite everything, but I do think that
Speaker 1: everything is part of his legacy. Alan It's fascinating to
Speaker 1: hear you all say all that. You remind me of
Speaker 1: somebody I know very well, me because that's exactly how
Speaker 1: I feel about everything. But I've got a big accept
Speaker 1: and the big accept is this, It's the power of
Speaker 1: the Nike argument. Winning takes care of everything. I think,
Speaker 1: all those things that are so important to the four
Speaker 1: of us, all those subtle things. How how big Jack
Speaker 1: handled all those nineteen runner up finishes and the majors.
Speaker 1: We saw the arm go around uh Watson at Turnberry
Speaker 1: and literally hundreds of other things. You know, how he
Speaker 1: handled the President's Cup in South Africa and the thing
Speaker 1: with Jacqueline and give him the put at the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: Literally a hundred plus things over the years, and Tiger
Speaker 1: doesn't have that. But we live in a culture now
Speaker 1: where it's all about how do you make the money,
Speaker 1: how do you win? Not how do you win studio
Speaker 1: win the tournaments. Uh he's got the eight three in
Speaker 1: the sixteen whatever turns out to be in the end,
Speaker 1: and uh no, And if we're really talking about legacy,
Speaker 1: if that's what this conversation is now about, No, I
Speaker 1: don't think all those other things that are so meaningful
Speaker 1: to the four of us, I don't think, broadly speaking,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think they'll they'll matter. Just just
Speaker 1: one quick additional thought to that. I was stunned, Not stunned,
Speaker 1: that really wouldn't be the right word. But I was
Speaker 1: interested to hear Tigers referred to Arnold as quote my hero.
Speaker 1: And I knew that he admired Arnold greatly, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot to admire about Arnold. But these two guys
Speaker 1: couldn't be more different. But when he said that, it
Speaker 1: tells me. I think it tells me that he wishes
Speaker 1: he had what Arnold had, which is natural warmth, natural
Speaker 1: desire to be around people, and just really, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, an immense comfort with himself, enjoy
Speaker 1: from being the person that he is, where I don't
Speaker 1: think Tiger sadly has that. I'll take it from one
Speaker 1: different angle that one of the people in this conversation
Speaker 1: that we're talking about outside of Tiger was a famous
Speaker 1: womanizer too. It's a different time, right, like the correct
Speaker 1: and the social media and TMZ and all of those
Speaker 1: things changed golf, Like I mean, ja can cut it
Speaker 1: out or whatever. I mean, I don't know. It was
Speaker 1: a famous womanizer. We all know that, Like, like he
Speaker 1: had people, but like it's a different time, right, Like
Speaker 1: no one ever took pictures of anyone else where. It is,
Speaker 1: so I think I'm not an article. I mean, my
Speaker 1: deeper thoughts are in an article. It'll be out today.
Speaker 1: But like his transgressions are indefensible. Uh, but it's a
Speaker 1: different time, like we didn't we didn't, we didn't live
Speaker 1: in a world where every movement of every famous person
Speaker 1: was put on social media. I totally agree with you know,
Speaker 1: part of me thinks that that's you know, why Tiger
Speaker 1: wishes he could be our you know, could be Arnold Palmer,
Speaker 1: could could do do whatever he was doing. The womanizing
Speaker 1: and the drug addictions and the you know, getting pulled
Speaker 1: over and not even knowing what state he's in. I mean,
Speaker 1: the car accidents. The Again, he's a flawed individual, and
Speaker 1: so is Phil and you know, in many ways, so
Speaker 1: was Arnold Palmer and you know Jack Nicholas. I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody has their their stuff. But you know, Ray Lewis
Speaker 1: is on ESPN being lauded as like one of the
Speaker 1: great like you know, George Foreman was a flawed individual
Speaker 1: and reinvented himself. You know Tom Weiskoff, we talked about
Speaker 1: him last week. You know, he belt with dealt with
Speaker 1: alcohol addiction and and had had you know, had a
Speaker 1: horrible reputation as a pro and reinvented himself, became an
Speaker 1: incredible analyst, incredible architect, and shared openly about like all
Speaker 1: the evolution he's got. Like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: they're people. These guys are are actually human beings. They're
Speaker 1: going through their stuff. They were the products of their environment.
Speaker 1: You know, Tiger it Is as a teen, was predicted
Speaker 1: to like have more of an impact, or just as
Speaker 1: much of an impact as Gandhi. Like what is that?
Speaker 1: Like where does like what is all of that? You know, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's flawed, he's got issues. I've just compartmentalized him
Speaker 1: and looked to him and marvel at him as strictly
Speaker 1: like this competitor, you know, and when the gun goes off,
Speaker 1: the guy is one of the toughest guys to beat,
Speaker 1: regardless of the situation, and marvel at his his abilities
Speaker 1: under pressure, his accomplishments inside the ropes, outside the ropes.
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. You know, he is it is
Speaker 1: what he is. It's just he's an athlete. He is not.
Speaker 1: He's not God's gift to like mankind beyond if you
Speaker 1: really love and appreciate the game of golf, I just
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't try to make him something he's not.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's all well said, Matt. But part part
Speaker 1: of why we care about athletes is because they are
Speaker 1: humans and we get invested in their lives. I mean,
Speaker 1: why was to use your example, like, why was the
Speaker 1: crunch Ob victory so emotional? It's because it's because of
Speaker 1: what was happening away from the golf course. You know
Speaker 1: that the hug between Philip Amy and two thousand ten
Speaker 1: because she had cancer. You know, when he wins the
Speaker 1: masters for her, Like it's it's what's it's the it's
Speaker 1: the humanity that draws us to them. Otherwise they're just
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's sit in the same seven iron Who
Speaker 1: cares that? I mean, okay, I'm gonna pop my article again,
Speaker 1: but like, that's that is why I love Tiger is
Speaker 1: he's flawed. I'm not defending any of those things, none
Speaker 1: of them. I they're in defense of like, none of them.
Speaker 1: But we're all, like I mean the opening articles, sit
Speaker 1: and think about the worst mistake you've ever made in
Speaker 1: your life and have it played out I'm in public
Speaker 1: persona and be lauded from the age of two literally
Speaker 1: as the greatest thing to mankind, and not grow up
Speaker 1: with some sort of ego where you think that you
Speaker 1: can get away with the things that Tigers thinks he
Speaker 1: can get away with. Still the only three years ago
Speaker 1: he was busted for for you know, d y or
Speaker 1: under the influence. Um. I just uh, he's a flawed
Speaker 1: human saw. We're all flawed, and he's amongst it. And
Speaker 1: maybe he's more flawed than all of us. Uh, But
Speaker 1: he has seemed to mature a little bit, seems to
Speaker 1: be a good father. He gets along with Ellen, which
Speaker 1: is or it seems to they Obviously we're not privy
Speaker 1: to private conversation is but the fact that they share
Speaker 1: custody and not have a public fighting court all the
Speaker 1: time speaks to at least a little bit of uh
Speaker 1: maturing on his part. So I see where you guys
Speaker 1: are going from and taking from a different angle, and
Speaker 1: that's great. I mean, that's I love that. And you know,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of empathy for Tiger like he's
Speaker 1: he's been through a lot. And I'm if I sound
Speaker 1: like I'm judging in that, that's not it at all.
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at in the context of to me,
Speaker 1: when I see his career and what could be, it's
Speaker 1: hard not to feel a pain because it's you totally
Speaker 1: agree with that too, But I mean, the the only
Speaker 1: the only word that made would be better than career
Speaker 1: for me in that sense sound would be his life.
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you look at Tiger Woods his
Speaker 1: life and not being pain for him? And you know,
Speaker 1: millions and millions of people would have traded place with
Speaker 1: Arnold Palmer in a New York minute, But I don't
Speaker 1: know that millions of people would trade to place with
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods. I don't think Rory McElroy would trade places
Speaker 1: of Tiger Woods. No, definitely, not um Or. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure even a guy like Max Holm has never win
Speaker 1: a major with Jane, would trade places with him. But
Speaker 1: I'll be curious. No, you're you've You've done a lot
Speaker 1: of reporting this here. Uh. One are the things that
Speaker 1: separates live golf from the PGA Tours? Of course, the
Speaker 1: size of the field. Tiger has such a big voice
Speaker 1: in the tour, and what will happen to these elevated
Speaker 1: events a year from now when there's a reconfiguration. What
Speaker 1: these elevated events are? What do you think this if
Speaker 1: Tiger could have his stamp on it, What do you
Speaker 1: think the size of the field would be for for
Speaker 1: the l A tournament. I want to say seventy It
Speaker 1: may get Do you think that's what Tiger would want?
Speaker 1: Only seventy? Or came out and said that's what he wants. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Rory said that's what Tiger wants. You know that he
Speaker 1: that's what he wants. I mean, honestly, Rory has more
Speaker 1: juice and Tiger now because he's the guy who's talking
Speaker 1: to players every week and he's on the board of directors,
Speaker 1: and um, you know Tiger is, he's Tiger, but he's
Speaker 1: not really playing a lot of PJ Tour events anymore.
Speaker 1: So uh. And also, I mean, Tiger more than anybody else,
Speaker 1: believes in a meritocracy. And so I think he would
Speaker 1: say listen, if you want to, if you want to
Speaker 1: be in the field, play better. I think he would
Speaker 1: be the ultimate play better guy. And um, you can
Speaker 1: always play your way into the field, but you gotta
Speaker 1: make more birdies. So, um, it could, but there is
Speaker 1: there's a vicious debate going on among the players, and
Speaker 1: it could that could get bumped up to eighty or ninety. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, but even a hundred of streats. So I
Speaker 1: I think seven eighty or ninety no cutter with a cut. Well,
Speaker 1: when you get to that many people, you'd have to
Speaker 1: have a cut. You know, seventy there's there's probably just enough.
Speaker 1: Uh you know what players from seventy, what's that cut?
Speaker 1: Twenty players from seventy. No, seventy would be no cut.
Speaker 1: Seveny would be no cut. If you get a hundred,
Speaker 1: you gonna have to have a cut. But um, so
Speaker 1: no I think this I think you know now Keith
Speaker 1: Mitchell didn't play well. He swings beautifully. I like to
Speaker 1: watch him and swing, But to me, with Kevin Keith
Speaker 1: Mitchell in the mix makes the tournament more interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Kashmir Keith, he's fun to watch, I mean, but he's um,
Speaker 1: he's a guy who's who's upwardly mobile in his career.
Speaker 1: And you know it's if you're in the top seventy,
Speaker 1: you're stoked because then you know you're gonna show up
Speaker 1: these tournaments a dozen times a year or whatever, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna make a check. You're gonna make
Speaker 1: a fat check. You don't have to worry out making
Speaker 1: the cut. And that's what these guys want. They want
Speaker 1: to get paid. I mean they're pretty open about it.
Speaker 1: So um, but anyway that that'll get announced, I believe
Speaker 1: there's a there's a big player meeting at bay Hill
Speaker 1: and I think, um, that's where it's gonna get unveiled
Speaker 1: and it's gonna go public. So we'll we're not gonna
Speaker 1: have to wait too much longer to to get the
Speaker 1: resolution to this. But before we go, I think we
Speaker 1: should just tip our caps to Bernhard Longer, who won
Speaker 1: again today on the Senior Tour tied the all time
Speaker 1: record for wins with guy named Hill or in um.
Speaker 1: And you know, Michael, you're probably the world's foremost expert
Speaker 1: on Bernhard Longer. You've written a ton about him, and uh,
Speaker 1: like I was, I was like at the gym. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't really follow the Senior to I don't know
Speaker 1: who falls it super closely, And all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it's like Bernard Longer gonna win this terment, Like, are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? I mean it's the guy eighty yet
Speaker 1: it's just unbelievable. Okay, I have a question. I have
Speaker 1: a question before Michael answers better odds to win the Masters,
Speaker 1: Bernhard Longer or Tiger Woods. Bernhard Linger has absolutely zero chance.
Speaker 1: Tiger has north of zero, so that that's not a question.
Speaker 1: It's a question, but it's not if they play the
Speaker 1: Masters for the members tease, I would say Bertie Longer
Speaker 1: all the way. But at yards, I mean Tiger can
Speaker 1: still move it. Now, you know, power is a big
Speaker 1: thing there, so Um, the answer to you, the question
Speaker 1: has to be Tiger, but it's it's not. I mean,
Speaker 1: Bernie can't hit it three thirty yards. It's just not
Speaker 1: you got it? You would that be great if they
Speaker 1: if they said, you know what, we're gonna We're gonna
Speaker 1: do something a little different this year. We're gonna play
Speaker 1: it from from the members tease, and we're gonna bake
Speaker 1: the greens out. We're gonna put the pins in crazy places.
Speaker 1: And like I would be all in on that. Freddy
Speaker 1: Reddy wins by Freddie. We have Freddie wins out, Like
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right about that. Uh. One of
Speaker 1: the great moments from Jero thousand nineteen now. And you
Speaker 1: and I talked about this when after Tiger one and
Speaker 1: ro Hug bro Hug bro Hug and you know, with
Speaker 1: Zack Johnson and Boba and various others who are hanging around,
Speaker 1: and there's Bernhard at the end of the receiving line
Speaker 1: and just a man full of regular conventional handshake from
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods to Bernhard Langer really spoke of Tiger's respect
Speaker 1: for Langer. Uh. Head language effect for Tigers. I've spoken
Speaker 1: about about about the able, but again, I mean, and
Speaker 1: I've talked Bernard a lot, and I've i've you know,
Speaker 1: I bumped into him from time to time crossing paths,
Speaker 1: you know, Here's what. Here's what Longer does. He outworks
Speaker 1: his competition. He is on the right, He is a machine.
Speaker 1: He is honing his game. John rom same thing, Max Homa.
Speaker 1: You know, a couple of years ago said I'm done
Speaker 1: with podcast. I'm gonna focus. I'm gonna try to work
Speaker 1: be the best I can possibly be. You know, there
Speaker 1: is something to be said for people who work really
Speaker 1: hard who also have talent and experience. I mean, that
Speaker 1: is how Hail Irwin got to where he got. That's
Speaker 1: why Longer has gotten to where he's got. That's where
Speaker 1: Jack got to where he's got. Tiger is back to
Speaker 1: where he is today, being able to walk, make a cut,
Speaker 1: play four rounds, shoot four or five under like because
Speaker 1: he's working at He's physically dedicating himself to getting to
Speaker 1: a place where he can hit it yards off to
Speaker 1: tea and compete against the guys he wants to compete with.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're oh by the way, work matters look
Speaker 1: at Longer. Longer doesn't just rock up and try to
Speaker 1: beat his competition. He outworks them, and that's why he's
Speaker 1: had the career he's had. His physic actually looks almost
Speaker 1: identical to what it does and what it didn't met made.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but what's amazing is he saws the need
Speaker 1: and the desire to keep working like that into his
Speaker 1: late sixties. Like that's what's incredible. It's incredible. But it is,
Speaker 1: it's there, it lives in him. That's what he is.
Speaker 1: It defines him. He's a golfer. He's dedicated to his craft.
Speaker 1: He wants it, like you know, that's what's in him.
Speaker 1: He's a golfer. Yeah, Carlos Franco is a golfer too.
Speaker 1: I mean, but he didn't try very hard, but like
Speaker 1: you know, he probably had more talent than Bernhard longer.
Speaker 1: But it's just like it's incredible, you know. I hope
Speaker 1: that when I'm Bernie's age, like I'm grinded like that.
Speaker 1: I have a Twitter follower who is so hung up
Speaker 1: on on Bernhard Anchoring and and sends me pictures weekly
Speaker 1: of Bernhard and finally I just replied to him today.
Speaker 1: Usually ignore when I just replied us like it's the
Speaker 1: Champions Tour man. No one, no one is this mad
Speaker 1: about about Bernhard uh Anchoring, but his career Ryan. I
Speaker 1: actually have heard I have heard other players who are
Speaker 1: plenty mad. But when you look at a really closely,
Speaker 1: it's like, Oh, it's the blouse sweater that's making contact.
Speaker 1: It's such a bad rule. They should have never allowed
Speaker 1: in the first place. They should have kept putters for
Speaker 1: thirty six inches or something. But as the Great Man says,
Speaker 1: it is what it is. I do have a fantasy, Matt,
Speaker 1: like to hear your opinion on this and everybody else's
Speaker 1: because everyone else to hurt me on this. I have
Speaker 1: this fantasy that Tiger will turn the three senior majors
Speaker 1: into a thing nobody's ever won. I don't think Garrett
Speaker 1: Playerber did the British British Senior British US Senior Open
Speaker 1: in the Senior p J Championship in the same year.
Speaker 1: It would be me healthy Ish Ish Tiger at fifth
Speaker 1: would say, I'm going after it. Uh. Do you think
Speaker 1: if that happened, man, do you think it could turn
Speaker 1: into a thing that people would care about if this
Speaker 1: one particular golfer, Tiger woodskid it. Of course, any Tiger anything.
Speaker 1: He made the PNC Father and Son a thing. It's
Speaker 1: like he can turn anything into a thing. He's about
Speaker 1: to turn simulator golf into a thing. He's doing it
Speaker 1: right under the nose of everybody who's boxing at live
Speaker 1: doing a breakaway tour. He and Rory have their own
Speaker 1: breakaway tour. It's happening right as we speak, signing players,
Speaker 1: making a team concept, creating you know, a more you know,
Speaker 1: a more livelier venture of the game of golf. Whatever
Speaker 1: Tiger does that involves a golf club and a golf ball.
Speaker 1: In some sense, it's just scoring is a thing. It's official. Well,
Speaker 1: so well match whatever, rinse and repeat. Well it was,
Speaker 1: you know, not not to get too in the weeds
Speaker 1: on the future of the senior majors. But theoretically Phil
Speaker 1: could play those two You's band from the Senior Tour, right,
Speaker 1: It's like, because they're they're in the same the same
Speaker 1: little gray area as is everything else. So how about
Speaker 1: Phil and Tiger going at it head to head for
Speaker 1: the US Senior Open, Like that would be epics. So
Speaker 1: you're saying from the from the Senior he's not they're
Speaker 1: they're not. You know, those tournaments are not under the
Speaker 1: hammer of the PGA Tour. Yeah, I mean that that
Speaker 1: could be. You know, that's delicious to think about, And
Speaker 1: it goes to what I said forty minutes ago. I mean,
Speaker 1: tiger in a golf cart is dangerous and um, of
Speaker 1: course they don't really use them in the majors, do they.
Speaker 1: I don't even watch the Senior Tour enough to know.
Speaker 1: I know they don't do it for the US Senior
Speaker 1: U their four rounds welcome. Yeah, if the Champions Tour
Speaker 1: had gone back to forty four years old, a long
Speaker 1: time ago, would would we be? It would would live exist?
Speaker 1: Like if if if, if these guys had the option
Speaker 1: of being able to extend their careers, the Paul Cases
Speaker 1: and the Graham mcdowells, and the you know, Ian Poulter's
Speaker 1: and all these guys that are going to march towards
Speaker 1: their you know, there that mid level zone in which
Speaker 1: they are struggling to compete against the twenty somethings, but
Speaker 1: they're not old enough to compete against the fifties somethings.
Speaker 1: Like why isn't the Champions Tour young? Why doesn't Why
Speaker 1: doesn't the Champions Tour get down and start competing in
Speaker 1: all of this by creating a scenario in which people
Speaker 1: have the choice of playing both tours or playing one
Speaker 1: or not the other, that's why not? Why not let
Speaker 1: these names that are in these tweener phases of their
Speaker 1: career have an outlet for competitive golf. Right, But now,
Speaker 1: I would say, Matt, I think twenty years ago, forty
Speaker 1: four look like a better number. Now, with guys staying
Speaker 1: as fit as they are, I think the probably is
Speaker 1: a good number. But but okay, then what then? Then?
Speaker 1: What happened with all the guys that are now gone
Speaker 1: to live that couldn't compete, you know, compete against the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. You say that It's sort of true, yes,
Speaker 1: from a technology, but the younger guys benefit from that
Speaker 1: same technology that the forties sums that they're benefiting from
Speaker 1: as well. And it's all relative, so is it? Can
Speaker 1: they still compete with a bad back or a bad
Speaker 1: you know, Lee West? The names go on and on
Speaker 1: and on. This was their Outlive was an outlet in
Speaker 1: which they can keep making money playing quote competitive golf.
Speaker 1: You guys want to hear a shocker, And I think
Speaker 1: Alan knows this. The first live events in cheus, No,
Speaker 1: it's in Mexico. The second one in the United States
Speaker 1: and chews. I think, of course that nobody wants to
Speaker 1: like nobody don't care about that. If we're more invested
Speaker 1: in the actual competition on Lived, someone would do a
Speaker 1: deep dive on the tournament venues because they're not a
Speaker 1: plus and um. But there's certainly gonna be more articles
Speaker 1: about the tenthile reviewer than about the Live schedule. But uh,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah that that that course is no no bueno,
Speaker 1: the one they're going to in Tulsa, when you're like
Speaker 1: the fourth best course in Tulsa, that's a problem. The
Speaker 1: one in Orlando, you would know that one. Matt um Alan,
Speaker 1: can you just summarize for us to the San Francisco
Speaker 1: federal ruling and if it's meaningful and what it means?
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, man, we're touching them all on this podcast,
Speaker 1: so it is meaningful. The um in in this big
Speaker 1: antitrust suit between the you know, Live is sued the
Speaker 1: PGA tour Um. They're now in the deposition phase and
Speaker 1: the the guy who runs a public investment fund, his
Speaker 1: excellency Yassir all ramayan Um, who's very involved in all
Speaker 1: the negotiations and I've heard, you know when when he's
Speaker 1: part he's a big part of Live Golf. There's no
Speaker 1: question he's been involved in the contracts and a lot
Speaker 1: of the decision making. No one disputes that. Um, so
Speaker 1: the PJ for player lawyers want to depose him and
Speaker 1: the Rumayan he his excellency. He's known as h E
Speaker 1: among live players, or they called the investor, which I like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of he's the investor. He's claimed diplomatic community
Speaker 1: because he's the holder of many state secrets. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's one of he's probably the number two guy in
Speaker 1: all of Saudi Arabi. He's always been close to MBS
Speaker 1: and this guy runs you know, the PIFF and he's
Speaker 1: also the chairman of a Ramco, which is the most
Speaker 1: profitable company in the world. Like this is this guy's
Speaker 1: he's the man. He but he claimed of back community
Speaker 1: and the judge based said no, sorry, you're um. If
Speaker 1: you're disinvolved in in in the day to day dealings
Speaker 1: of of live golf, you can be deposed. So now
Speaker 1: that that puts, you can imagine this is like alarm
Speaker 1: bell are going off in the palaces around Saudi Araby
Speaker 1: because the last thing they want is for him to
Speaker 1: be deposed under oath, and it introduces the possibility that
Speaker 1: Live could just withdraw the suit like that never mind
Speaker 1: it's not worth it, or they could they could refile
Speaker 1: it in a much more limited way. But this is
Speaker 1: kind of the worst case scenario for live learning. Now
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to make a hard choice on how
Speaker 1: do you compel a non US citizen to uh to
Speaker 1: stand under a questioning of an American lawyer in American
Speaker 1: court systimes at work? Well, the I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: a lawyer. I just played one on the internet. But
Speaker 1: you know that the court the cases has been live
Speaker 1: golf filed the case in in in California in the
Speaker 1: United States. They chose the venue. They didn't they didn't
Speaker 1: they didn't do this in in in London or anywhere
Speaker 1: else like you know, they chose, they set the rules
Speaker 1: of engagement. Therefore the court has jurisdiction. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: if if if remind doesn't give into you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what happens if you just flat out refuses
Speaker 1: to do it, does the whole thing just fold? You know? Um,
Speaker 1: but it it's just it's not a great scenario for
Speaker 1: a live golf and so, um, how they handle this
Speaker 1: will be interesting to see. Doesn't mean that, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he will ultimately be deposed and um, there'll be
Speaker 1: some limits placed on what canon camp, he asked. But
Speaker 1: of course the tour lawyers are gonna try to make
Speaker 1: it as uncomfortable and controversial as possible. And and uh
Speaker 1: that's why this is also much fun. All right, This
Speaker 1: has been another Fire Drill podcast for Matchinella and Michael
Speaker 1: Bamberger and Ryan French. I'm Alan chip Nick. Thank you's
Speaker 1: always for listening. We'll do this again next week. I
Speaker 1: will actually be calling in from Mexico. I'm going to
Speaker 1: be at the live event in my Acoba. Greg Norman design. Um.
Speaker 1: First event of the year should be juicy, should be fun.
Speaker 1: There'll be lots to talk about, um, but until then,
Speaker 1: we appreciate your fidelity. And uh that's the end. I
Speaker 1: bet big and I played to win, made a fortune,
Speaker 1: win my ship game. Man. I ran the table, never
Speaker 1: thought I could fall down. The wintertime hit me like
Speaker 1: a cannon. The ball and now I can't shake this,
Speaker 1: losing the streak. Every road I take is a dead
Speaker 1: end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get aloud,
Speaker 1: trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I gotta
Speaker 1: dancing my head. I can't get him out and trying
Speaker 1: not to think what I'm thinking about,