1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Welcome back

5
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt, my name they

6
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: call me Ben. We were joined as always with our

7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,760
Speaker 1: super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you,

8
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

9
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 1: want you to know. Every time you do that, every

10
00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: time you do it, I feel like I'm about to

11
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,440
Speaker 1: get into some kind of freestyle or something. There's a

12
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 1: cadence to it. When you did, didn't, didn't do? Do

13
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 1: do do? I get so hyped. Have you been listening

14
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: to a lot of hip hop recently? A little bit? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Oh,

15
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 1: I've got to send you some stuff as well. I've

16
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 1: been listening to some amazing things. I almost was caught.

17
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 1: I was in Vegas. Circumstances found me in Vegas this

18
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,120
Speaker 1: past weekend and I almost ended up at at a

19
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 1: weird party with some notable people. But being layne, I

20
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,759
Speaker 1: went to my hotel and read a book. Yeah you did,

21
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 1: wink he did? And he totally ran that party. I

22
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,200
Speaker 1: think so, yeah, I'm looking at no over here. I

23
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 1: don't think you did, dude. I think he's telling the truth.

24
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 1: How do you guys have a good weekend? Yeah? I

25
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,479
Speaker 1: had a great weekend. Hey, I played a lot of

26
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 1: that Detroit Becoming Human. It was the free game on

27
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 1: the PlayStation network. Totally worth it, best gaming I've played

28
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,800
Speaker 1: in a long time. Highly recommended. If you're into story,

29
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 1: if you want some complex game play, don't don't do it.

30
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 1: But if you just want to learn about how androids

31
00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 1: will one day, you know, become a free and independent people,

32
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 1: go for it. In Detroit. They'll become human in Detroit. Yeah, they'll. Well,

33
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 1: in my case, don't spoil it for anybody. Things turn

34
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,960
Speaker 1: out well, that's good. I've got to say. It's so

35
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,720
Speaker 1: it's so weird that we don't do more video games stuff.

36
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 1: I would love to play a video game called stuff.

37
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 1: They don't want you to know with that weird hand. Yeah,

38
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: uh and uh, you know, maybe one day, maybe one

39
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,080
Speaker 1: day we'll we'll mess with some video game type folks.

40
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 1: I really like old like video games that tied in

41
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 1: with movies that look nothing like the movie, like on Nintendo.

42
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 1: You know, it would be like back to the future

43
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: of the game, but you'd just be like this little

44
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,080
Speaker 1: blocking Marty McFly. Yeah, you know remember ET the game.

45
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 1: That was where I was just going to mention that, Yeah,

46
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,240
Speaker 1: ET the game one of uh the universally agreed worst

47
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 1: video games ever. Yeah, I think I think there's an

48
00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 1: exactly see. But in our video game, you'd get to

49
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 1: choose to be one of us or Paul, and you

50
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 1: would go through and you'd have to solve conspiracies with

51
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,519
Speaker 1: the help of the others. It would be a multiplayer game.

52
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,040
Speaker 1: You could have four people at once playing, right, can

53
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 1: you play solo? You can totally play. So that's how

54
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 1: I would play it. But what I'm saying is if

55
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,440
Speaker 1: you were into playing together, you guys could investigate going

56
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 1: down different leads. You report back. Ben's found out everything

57
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 1: about the Black Hand. I've been busy over here with

58
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: an extra trest real angle. For some reason, they're connected.

59
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,799
Speaker 1: Then we figure out the next place to go. I'm

60
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 1: telling you this video game rules. Get at me and

61
00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 1: Ben and Noel and and Paul whoever you are you

62
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,240
Speaker 1: video game developers out there, Yeah, tell us your idea

63
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,360
Speaker 1: if you had if you had a video game about

64
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 1: your own personal experience, what would it be? You don't

65
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 1: have to write it all out. You can call us

66
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 1: and give us your three minute pitch. We are one

67
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 1: eight three three st d w y t K. If

68
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 1: you're a long time listener, you can probably tell that

69
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 1: we're all we're all film buffs here or voracious sponges

70
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 1: of story and information. Uh. We we enjoy that in

71
00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 1: terms of video games, terms of music, art, and you know,

72
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 1: film and books and so on. And we were talking

73
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,040
Speaker 1: a little bit off air about Tom Cruise, who will

74
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: be familiar to all our fans of Tom Cruise Control

75
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: mentioned in earlier episode. In seventeen, the actor Tom Cruise

76
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,920
Speaker 1: starred in a film called American Maid. American Maide follows

77
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 1: the highly fictionalized life and times of a real life

78
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 1: pilot named Barry Seal, a pilot amongst other things, a

79
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,480
Speaker 1: pilot amongst other things. And we asked, oh, I forget that, Paul,

80
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 1: Mr Control, how are you doing today? All right? We

81
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 1: got a good thumbs up, and Paul, you also gave

82
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,920
Speaker 1: a thumbs up to American Maide? Is that correct? That's

83
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,479
Speaker 1: official double thumbs? Wow. Nobody wants to know how I'm doing.

84
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 1: Wait a second, I asked how you guys were doing that?

85
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 1: Was that was my fault? I said, how are you

86
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 1: guys doing that? I derailed it and I sent it

87
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,279
Speaker 1: to Ben. That was my fault. No, no, no, no,

88
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,479
Speaker 1: it's cool. What's up in your life? No? Did you

89
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 1: go on that date we talked about I take you

90
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 1: on a day? It's true. I saw a cast movie

91
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,240
Speaker 1: that you guys should all see, called The Last Black

92
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 1: Man in San Francisco. I enjoyed it thoroughly. It's kind

93
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 1: of like a weird It kind of fits in with

94
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,400
Speaker 1: our show because it's got this weird kind of alternative

95
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,720
Speaker 1: history version of San Francisco where like everyone that grew

96
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: up there has been forced out, which is not made

97
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,040
Speaker 1: up at all. That's absolutely what's happening. But there's this

98
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,200
Speaker 1: backdrop of this kind of like toxic event that they

99
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 1: never really name, but like the fish are poison and

100
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: like the water is all poison, and the whole thing

101
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 1: has this like kind of crazy Terry Gilliam or like

102
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 1: Michelle Gondry kind of vibe. I really recommended highly very dreamlike,

103
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,720
Speaker 1: very powerful, very very special movie. I liked a lot

104
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 1: done what were the what were the ratings or reviews?

105
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,680
Speaker 1: They were good, They're very good. But I just, yeah,

106
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 1: I think it's something it's hard to describe, and I'm

107
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 1: not even gonna bother trying too hard, but something that

108
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 1: you guys should all see. I think, Well, the movie

109
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about today, American made, has some pretty dang

110
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 1: good ratings, at least according to Rotten Tomatoes. Right, what

111
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,559
Speaker 1: are the premier rating sites? Can you lay those numbers

112
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,719
Speaker 1: on us? Yeah, let's let's give it to you. Critics

113
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,120
Speaker 1: gave it eight six percent. The audience gave it seventy eight. Now,

114
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,159
Speaker 1: generally gotta say those two numbers are flopped where the

115
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,720
Speaker 1: critics will give it a slightly lower rating, and then

116
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 1: audience members will enjoy a movie a little bit better

117
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 1: than the critics perhaps gave it, give it credit for. Yeah,

118
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,039
Speaker 1: I don't know, but in this movie, in this case,

119
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,159
Speaker 1: the critics really liked it. And here's the question, what

120
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,680
Speaker 1: those ratings change if the film were to follow the

121
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 1: true story of Barry Seal, the story that even today

122
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 1: runs rife with the stuff they don't want you to know.

123
00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 1: So here are the facts. We've been throwing this name

124
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 1: around a lot Barry Seal who is Barry Seal. Barry

125
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,560
Speaker 1: Seal was born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana on July sixteenth,

126
00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, and his father was a candy wholesaler

127
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,240
Speaker 1: and a klansman. Yeah, he was a member of the

128
00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 1: ku Klux Klan, which um you know that sounds like

129
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,479
Speaker 1: on the inspiratorial side today, but at the time it

130
00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 1: was pretty commonplace for white dudes in Baton Rouge. Sad

131
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 1: but true. So Barry grew up obsessed with airplanes and

132
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: he took his first solar flight at fifteen, one year

133
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 1: before he actually got his legit pilot's license, and then

134
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 1: not too long after that, you work for one of

135
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 1: those companies that have like the banners that were towed

136
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 1: behind the planes for advertising, which is a thing that

137
00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,480
Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated by, Like who is that person

138
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 1: that does that? And it's a great idea for prank

139
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 1: to It's a my secret list of dream pranks is

140
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: to take one of those advertising banners. This is the

141
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: most sith lord version taking advertising banner. Hire someone to

142
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,440
Speaker 1: fly out a banner that says will you marry me?

143
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,920
Speaker 1: And just hear the relationships crumble around the city for

144
00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: anyone who accidentally looks up and then they're they're significant

145
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,120
Speaker 1: other goes, oh my god, yes I will. Yeah, I've

146
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 1: always thought that was a pretty like blunt instrument way

147
00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,960
Speaker 1: of doing that, right. You know, in general, it's pretty

148
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 1: inconsiderable super Man ruin ruining everybody's beach day. So to

149
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 1: jump back to Barry Seal really fast, you guys, yes, um,

150
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 1: it's fascinating here is one of the first things we've

151
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 1: learned about him is that prior to even getting a

152
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,239
Speaker 1: pilot's license, he's bending the rules a little bit and

153
00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 1: taking a solo flight, something that is both irresponsible, really

154
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 1: dangerous to himself, but also um adventurous, right sure. Yeah,

155
00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 1: he's a drilline junkie, adrenaline junkie living on the edge

156
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,920
Speaker 1: of the rules. Yeah, and also has myopic obsessions. To

157
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 1: be fair, it's safe to say that many many people

158
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 1: in this country in the US do something similar when

159
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,960
Speaker 1: they're learning to drive cars. Right, your your parents are

160
00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,959
Speaker 1: an older person or someone with a license will take

161
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,199
Speaker 1: you out to a parking lot, and generally law enforcement

162
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,440
Speaker 1: will look the other way as this fourteen year old

163
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 1: is just of being a clutch You know, but but

164
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,160
Speaker 1: it's a little different, I would argue with planes right,

165
00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 1: and his obsession with flight in general would lead him

166
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 1: to the first steps on his long, controversial, conspiratorial, and

167
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,439
Speaker 1: ultimately fatal career. He joined the Civil Air Patrol and

168
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 1: fifty five and he stayed based in Baton Rouge, and

169
00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 1: he took part in a Civil Air Patrol joint training

170
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 1: mission with the New Orleans unit that was run by

171
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,520
Speaker 1: a guy named David Ferry. David Ferry later will be

172
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 1: a peripheral figure in the JFK assassination. And that's not

173
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 1: all of the connection between this character, Barry Seal and

174
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 1: the JFK assassination. Whatever do you mean? I mean, there's

175
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,760
Speaker 1: somebody else that allegedly he met, At least according to

176
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:54,720
Speaker 1: another Civil Air Patrol member person named John Odom, they

177
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 1: say that Seal actually encountered Mr Lee Harvey Oswald while

178
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 1: he was meaning, oh oh, that's true. But wait, wait,

179
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,360
Speaker 1: there's more, as more as Billy Mays was wont to say, yes,

180
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: Tosh plum Lee another figure later related to the JFK assassination.

181
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,080
Speaker 1: That's a great name, by the way, Gosh plumb Lee.

182
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 1: I love that sounds like a character and clue, Yeah,

183
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 1: it really does. He claims that Barry Seal began working

184
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 1: for the CIA in the mid nineteen fifties. We have

185
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,240
Speaker 1: a quote from Tash on this. I think Tosh Plumbly

186
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: would sound like a Berry. Seal was involved with military

187
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 1: intelligence in the early days. Military intelligence was the real game,

188
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,680
Speaker 1: with the CIA just acting as logistical people. Berry was

189
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,640
Speaker 1: a periperal player back then, but he was a CIA

190
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,199
Speaker 1: contract pilot all the way back to nineteen fifty six

191
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,280
Speaker 1: or fifty seven. Now, remember this is Baton Rouge, doesn't matter.

192
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,679
Speaker 1: This is how Plumly sounds, my man. He's an aristocrat

193
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 1: of the highest order. And Seal would later in sworn

194
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 1: test Simoni deny any affiliation with the CIA whatsoever in

195
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,360
Speaker 1: any shape, form or fashion. That'll come up later. Let's

196
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,560
Speaker 1: keep going. In n he began ferrying weapons to Fidel Castro,

197
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 1: fighting against the Bautista regime in Cuba. At the same time,

198
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,079
Speaker 1: a section of the CIA was supporting the overthrow of

199
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 1: the Batistas. So if he said he had no involvement,

200
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 1: I guess he was. It was just another contractor, and

201
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,640
Speaker 1: maybe maybe Castro had like a four thirty PM appointment

202
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 1: with the CIA and a five fifteen appointment with Barry

203
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 1: Seal who knows, or maybe he wasn't actually meeting. Like,

204
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,959
Speaker 1: here's the tough thing. It seems as though if you're

205
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: going to be flying weapons in to a group like uh,

206
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 1: at least any member of Fidel Castro's resistance force you

207
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 1: are going to, it's going to be a known mission, right,

208
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,200
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of handling that occurs with that.

209
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 1: It's not just oh hey, I'm gonna I'll be there

210
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: around three see see in a little bit. Fidel guys,

211
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,920
Speaker 1: Fidel's dudes. Um, I guess just what I'm saying is

212
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,480
Speaker 1: it was certainly under the radar when it was occurring,

213
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: right with authorities, or at leasie would have to be,

214
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,400
Speaker 1: unless it was explicitly known that this was occurring as

215
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: a mission and part of the CIA. So yeah, that's

216
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 1: that's another part. Because astute listeners, you just heard us

217
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 1: say the CIA was at the time supporting the overthrow

218
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 1: of Batista. However, the policy changed soon after Castro gained power,

219
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 1: and Barry's Seal apparently started taking part in air attacks

220
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 1: on the emergent new government. Either way they like to

221
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 1: he's doing nine, he became a CIA pilot in Guatemala.

222
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: It's true, and we were I'm just trying to point

223
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 1: out some things here that have to do with themes

224
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,240
Speaker 1: with Barry's life, right. This idea of possibly playing both

225
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,360
Speaker 1: sides there, of both supplying the new regime with weapons

226
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,840
Speaker 1: but then also participating in tax once they've gained power, exactly.

227
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,239
Speaker 1: Kind of a fair weather friend at the very least exactly.

228
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,320
Speaker 1: So let's go, let's go to ninety nine. Now he's

229
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,920
Speaker 1: in Guatemala and he's officially a CIA pilot. He has

230
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 1: officially a CIA pilot in Guatemala. It's also believed he

231
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 1: was involved in training Cuban exiles on No Name key

232
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 1: another excellent name in Florida and on the north shore

233
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,440
Speaker 1: of Lake ponch Train in Louisiana. He also ran a

234
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,120
Speaker 1: couple of companies based in his hometown, Baton Rouge, Seal

235
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: Sky Service and Aerial Advertising Associates. That's the banner thing

236
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,080
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. He had an office in the

237
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 1: International Traits Center run by Clay Shaw. Can we just

238
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:52,199
Speaker 1: talk about Aerial Advertising Associates? Sure? In triple A. I mean,

239
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:53,920
Speaker 1: first of all, you're gonna get in trouble just with

240
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,640
Speaker 1: those a's, right, you can't. You can't just use all

241
00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 1: three a's. Come on, there's a big company out there.

242
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 1: They're gonna take you down. But the other thing is

243
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 1: it sounds like some kind of CIA front, doesn't it.

244
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 1: When we've over the course of this show, every CIA

245
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,040
Speaker 1: FBI front has the most banal name to it of

246
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,040
Speaker 1: the most This is exactly what this thing is. Uh,

247
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,480
Speaker 1: it feels very much like that to me. I'm not

248
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,240
Speaker 1: saying it was a CIA friend, just saying sure, it's

249
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 1: like Legitimate Business Partners Associated LLC. Yeah, American, No, not

250
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,400
Speaker 1: American Airlines. What was it called? Was the Big One America?

251
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,120
Speaker 1: How could you? How could you hate that? Hate America?

252
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,360
Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty two December, he joins the twenty

253
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 1: first Special Forces Group. He attends the Fort Benning Jump School.

254
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,320
Speaker 1: In sixty three. The next year he's assigned to Company D,

255
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 1: Special Operations Detachment of the twentie Special Forces Group Airborne.

256
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 1: In sixty four, he joins the Engineer Battalion based in St. Louis.

257
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 1: He leaves there in sixty six. He's Sir is in

258
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 1: the Louisiana Army National Guard. The Army Reserve. He joins

259
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 1: t w A trans World Airlines in nineteen sixty eight

260
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: as a flight engineer and later becomes one of the

261
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 1: youngest command pilots in the entire fleet. So he loves flying.

262
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,760
Speaker 1: He's good at it. You just can't entirely trust that

263
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,280
Speaker 1: he will have your back with the chips are down. Yeah,

264
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 1: and he has had a lot of involvement with various

265
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:33,000
Speaker 1: military groups. It's the it's he's an experienced guy by

266
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:40,200
Speaker 1: the time. He's not that old, yeah, exactly borne yep,

267
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,800
Speaker 1: so not even thirty. And his shady and at times

268
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 1: contradictory career finally caught up with Barry Seal. On July one,

269
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, he was arrested in New Orleans. He

270
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: was accused of sending C four explosives to anti Castro

271
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,600
Speaker 1: Cubans based in Mexico. A DC war that was a

272
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: plane news line was seized at the Shreveport Regional Airport,

273
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 1: loaded with around seven tons of plastic explosive, seven thousand

274
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 1: feet of explosive primer cord, and two thousand, six hundred

275
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 1: electric blasting caps. So this was going to be one

276
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 1: hell of a party. And then James Miller, Richmond Harper,

277
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 1: and Marlon Haggler and also somebody Murray Kessler were arrested

278
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 1: along with Celan. Kessler's partner man my name of Manny

279
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 1: Gambino was kidnapped around the same time the others were arrested.

280
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 1: Very fishy, uh and Gambino's course was later found in

281
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 1: a New Jersey garbage jump some mob stuff right here right,

282
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: This is that Gambino clearly exactly. Yeah. Well, then the

283
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 1: plot just continues to thicken after that because at this point, yes,

284
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: very nice little um because that plane, the d C four,

285
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 1: was actually owned by this guy named James Boy, who

286
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 1: was in fact an associate, a known associate of the CIA.

287
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:07,959
Speaker 1: James Boy, Jim Plumbly and boy Natash Plumly and James

288
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 1: Boy sounds like made up names. I love it. Well

289
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: here's again there there are these weird um. This is

290
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: a web, there's a string in the web. It's literally

291
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 1: a Gary web. And uh so this guy, James Boy,

292
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 1: his aircraft later was used by Oliver North essentially to

293
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 1: uh to send mercenaries hired by him to fly in

294
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 1: and out of Honduras, which again we've got three points

295
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 1: of connection here already that are just mind blowing right, right,

296
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 1: Maybe not enough connections to jump to a conclusion, but

297
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 1: three points is what you need to climb up a

298
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 1: conspiracy mountain, right. So the man who organized the entrapment

299
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,480
Speaker 1: of Seal, the reason he got caught with all these explosives,

300
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 1: and that his friends got caught as well, it was

301
00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 1: a guy named Cesario Dilstad uh, an official with US Customs.

302
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,800
Speaker 1: It took the authorities over two years to bring Seal

303
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: and Code to trial, and then things got really fishy.

304
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 1: So the trial finally gets underway June four, but government

305
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,119
Speaker 1: prosecutors do something that automatically, without questions, sinks the case.

306
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: They introduced into evidence an automatic weapon that has nothing

307
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 1: to do with the charges against the defendants. None of

308
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 1: them have ever touched. The chain of custody is completely

309
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 1: unrelated to them, and so a mistrial is declared. Seal

310
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 1: and his buddies are released, no probation, UH, no monitoring,

311
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,360
Speaker 1: no sentencing. This was not to be his first arrest.

312
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 1: And this is about a plane filled to the brim

313
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 1: with explosives. Okay, not quite that large, but enough explosives,

314
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 1: like we said, to do serious damage somewhere and they

315
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 1: just get let off. Yeah. Uh this, this is also

316
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 1: going to become a pattern in the life of Seal.

317
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 1: This was not to be, of course, his final arrest.

318
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 1: Uh it. What we can see is that evidence indicates

319
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 1: that every step along the way, someone, some suit would

320
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 1: step in and take over the investigation. After Barry's first arrest,

321
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: his career takes off, or maybe it's more appropriate to

322
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 1: say it veers off in a darker, more sinister direction.

323
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: And we'll we'll tell we'll examine a little bit about that.

324
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 1: But first let's talk about his death. This is the

325
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: hinge of today's episode, and we'll talk about it right

326
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 1: after a quick word from our sponsor. On February Barry

327
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,919
Speaker 1: Seal was shot to death by a machine gun in

328
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,640
Speaker 1: front of a Salvation Army facility located on Airline Highway

329
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 1: in his hometown of Baton Rouge. And I believe we

330
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: can play a little clip of the reporting. Yeah, this

331
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 1: will be a really short clip from NBC. He used

332
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 1: to smuggle drugs and he got caught. Then he became

333
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 1: one of the government's most valuable informants in the war

334
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 1: against cocaine. The Last Night on Louisiana, Barry steals, animies

335
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 1: caught up with him and killed him. So Barry's murder

336
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 1: ends a d E A investigation, the investigate the drug

337
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: enforcement Agency. The investigation was never resolved, has not been

338
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 1: to this day, and according to some sources, the murder

339
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: was never truly solved either. And just to continue with

340
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: this web motif that we're already starting to create here

341
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 1: and all of the themes, we realized that Barry's death

342
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: connected directly to a two part series we made in

343
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 1: sixteen called Banks, Drugs, and Money that was based on

344
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: a film called The Infiltrader. Right, Yeah, And Barry Steal

345
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: appears in The Infiltrader, which is inspired by true events.

346
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: I believe he has a different sort of death in

347
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,239
Speaker 1: this story though, is that correct? Yeah? Yeah, because you know,

348
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 1: in the in the series, we're talking to Robert Maser, right,

349
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: and he was this d A agent who went under

350
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 1: cover and he ended up busting up part at least

351
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: of Pablo Escobar's drug trafficking cartel and then sinking an

352
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 1: international bank that was connected to the to that cartel.

353
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 1: And in this movie, there there's a scene where Robert

354
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: Mazer's character is being driven around by Barry Seal, and

355
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 1: Barry Seal's character is complaining, essentially complaining about Ronald Reagan

356
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 1: and Nancy Reagan and the anti drug movement um, talking

357
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: about his high level connections with government officials essentially and

358
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: how he's been doing this stuff, um, trafficking drugs for

359
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: the government essentially. I didn't clock it. All of that

360
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 1: was him in the movie. Interesting, Yeah, it's he's introduced,

361
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: and it's kind of shown that way. But then instead

362
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: of the way we've described it before, where Barry being

363
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: shot to death in front of the Salvation Army facility

364
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: just in his car or he's getting out of his car,

365
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 1: he's killed within a drive by a motorcycle assassin essentially

366
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: comes by and shoots him while he's driving the car.

367
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: And we noticed that this was the only depiction of

368
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: Barry Steal's death where he wasn't just in his car

369
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: or getting out of his vehicle. He was actually driving

370
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: while it was occurring. So to our mind, and to

371
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: I guess, to your mind, you should at least know

372
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: that that's probably not what happened to him. Um. But

373
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: at the same time, we I think it's just interesting

374
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 1: to note these connections we've been making here. Before we

375
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: started this episode, Noel pointed out that he felt like

376
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,959
Speaker 1: he had already talked about Barry Steal, and then we

377
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: discussed how in covering Gary Webb, um who who was

378
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: the other guy? Robert Maser and I think there was

379
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 1: one other main story that we've spoken about before. Where

380
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: was c I a drug trafficking? Um? Just how common

381
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: this feels to us? So if that's not really what happened,

382
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: it wasn't really a motorcycle drive by then what did

383
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: actually occur? Who killed Barry Seal? And why? Here's where

384
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: it gets crazy. So we talked about that first arrest,

385
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: and we mentioned his career changed after his first arrest

386
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four, when Barry got off scott free,

387
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: he went face first into drug smuggling, both for drug

388
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: cartels and apparently eventually for factions of Uncle Sam the

389
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 1: US government. His talent, his bravado, his kutzbah had attracted

390
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: the attention of the Medine cartel and their leader, Boblo Escobar,

391
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: who many of us may recognize from Netflix. It was

392
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: on Escobar's suggestion that Barry Seal moved his airstrip from

393
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: Louisiana to uh kind of a podunk place in West Arkansas,

394
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: and by the early nineteen eighties he had orchestrated the

395
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: importation of thousands of pounds of cocaine and marijuana into

396
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: the US via this middle of nowhere strip in Arkansas.

397
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: And he started out, as far as we can tell,

398
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: kind of smuggling marijuana on his own, and then he

399
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: realized the pound for pound cocaine is where you get

400
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: the most gas money. Is he depicted in that Netflix

401
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: show Narcos Berry Seal is Yes, Okay, I'm only in

402
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: the first season. It's been a spoiler alert. His death

403
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: is also portrayed in Narcos. I thought that rang about.

404
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: It's been a lot of time as I've seen that,

405
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: but that makes sense. His death has been actually depicted

406
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: multiple times, which is surprising because he's not a huge

407
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: public figure today and arguably he should be. He was

408
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: busted again in Florida eighty three, was charged with conspiracy

409
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: to distribute get this, four hundred and sixty two pounds

410
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: of coke. That's an estimated street value in three of

411
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty eight million. So just for just

412
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: for giggles, let's look at how much a hundred and

413
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: sixty eight million dollars in nineteen eight. Three is worth

414
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. We're gonna pull up the number with

415
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: some help from Mission control. Can we get a drum roll? Please?

416
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: Just a sound of someone snorting something on a table?

417
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: Even better? Perfect. I don't know how you found the

418
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: happy happy medium between those, Paul, but my god, that's why.

419
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: That's why you're a super producer. We're gonna we have

420
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: to take out to Apple Piece to apologize. Here's the answer.

421
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: A hundred and sixty eight million dollars three has the

422
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: purchasing power of over four hundred and thirty two million

423
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: dollars in twenty nineteen, so it's more than doubled over

424
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: that time. He was on the way to becoming a

425
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: what we would consider a billionaire today. Wow, you something else,

426
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: mickey chuckle? What's that? Barry seals alias or one of

427
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: them was Ellis mckpickle. No, not not Ellis, Ellis mcpickle.

428
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: He so it seems like such a good stand up guy.

429
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: It's weird because you wonder why he would need an alias, right,

430
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: Smugglers often do. But he turned and started working for

431
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: the FEDS as an informant. Yeah, because he got caught

432
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: with a hundred and sixty eight million dollars worth of cocaine.

433
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: So he was either just gonna go away forever or

434
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: he was gonna turn and start workings. Got flipped, yeah hard,

435
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: You got flips hard. So the d A crack this

436
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: deal with him. They said, all right, Barry, keep carrying

437
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: on your business as usual, keep flying your smuggling roots.

438
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: We're going to give your plane the exhibit treatment, you

439
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: know what I mean. We're going to put high tech

440
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: surveillance equipment in there, and we're gonna pimp your ride

441
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: to include the most expensive cryptic radio communications we had

442
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: ever seen at the time, according to d e A

443
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: agent Ernest Jacobson. And it and it paid off. It delivered.

444
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: On his first trip, Oh yeah, he got some photographs

445
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: of Cuban officials, Nicaraguan soldiers and Sandinista government officers hauling

446
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: duffel bags of cocaine. Hauling duffel bags. These are officials.

447
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: They're just picking them up and loading on the plane.

448
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: You can see a little bit of footage in this

449
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: from that NBC clip we played earlier. You can find

450
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: it on the YouTube video. It's insane. Um. He even

451
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: brought back a picture of this guy, this kind of

452
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: ghost or this myth that exists out there, Pablo Escobar.

453
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: But he was, um, he was in one of those

454
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: striped polo shirts that I can't remember if he was

455
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: portrayed this way in the infiltrader, but you've seen media

456
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: or depictions of Pablo Escobar in this shirt down there,

457
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: and uh, Seals Intel then transformed him into literally the

458
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 1: most significant witness in the US is war on drugs.

459
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: Almost overnight. We literally that's what occurred, This this thing

460
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: we've kind of told you about, where he got arrested

461
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: with all this stuff, got flipped, got his plane, pimps,

462
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: went out there and started doing this stuff. It was

463
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: not a long term situation. It was not a slow burn,

464
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: You're right, Matt. In fact, the Philadelphia Inquirer later called

465
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: Seal quote the most important witness in the history of

466
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: the US Drug Enforcement administration, not in terms of this project,

467
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: but in terms of the history of the administration. Can

468
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: we just talk about the stakes at which he's playing

469
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: his life right now? Sure after you know, having a

470
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: military career through all that stuff, then flipping to become

471
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: a drug smuggler, then flipping back to being an agent

472
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: out of control. Can you imagine, like how this guy

473
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: slept at night. I can know how much he slept. Well,

474
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: if you think he was getting high his on supply, yes, well,

475
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: But still though, wouldn't that bring about wouldn't that enhance

476
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: the paranoia that you would probably feel in that situation

477
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: if you're anywhere near a normally functioning lack of s

478
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: paired with the effects of the narcotics themselves. I'm sure

479
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: he was a mess. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I would

480
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: imagine just the stress. Not long into his career as

481
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: an informant, trouble begins. There's a front page story in

482
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: the Washington Times by journalist Edmund Jacoby which seems to

483
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: out Seal as a government agent. This is also one

484
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: of the first public statements that later led to the

485
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: Iran Contra scandal, and the d A said, well, a

486
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: known snitch is a no good snitch to us. Yeah, yep,

487
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: So they caught him loose, and not long after, the

488
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: FBI arrest him in Louisiana and the Baton rouge u

489
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: s attorney's office says we're gonna We're gonna put this

490
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: guy away for being a kingpin He's like, what brutal,

491
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm just flying planes for y'all. And they somehow in

492
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: a country that will put people under the prison for

493
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: like small time possession, you know, like barely intend to distribute.

494
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: He was slapped for five years probation and then he

495
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: had to do six months at a local halfway house.

496
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: This is kind of like the drug dealer version of

497
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: a Jeffrey Epstein quote unquote deal. And that's why he

498
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: ended up at that Salvation Army on Airline Highway. That

499
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: was part of his probation, and that's where he was

500
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: murdered in February. And he was murdered, But who actually

501
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: murdered him? We will give you our best guests and warning, Uh,

502
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: this is a little bit off the edges of the map,

503
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: so there's some speculation involved, but you learn more after

504
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. Okay, two things, let's divide

505
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: it two ways, dividing conquert. First, there is the official story.

506
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: You can't see it here, folks, but I'm sort of

507
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: waving my right hand in the air. And then there

508
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: are the conspiracy theories. I'm waving my left hand in

509
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: the air. Who would have killed Barry Seal and why

510
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: the official story is pretty clear. Legally speaking, this is solved. Yeah,

511
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: I mean it was obviously having something to do with

512
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: his involvement with these drug cartels and essentially assisting in

513
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: bringing them down and you know, going to give testimony

514
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: against them, right, But I mean, even if he wasn't

515
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: going to testify drug cartels don't take kindly. Two folks

516
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: that you know, leave the life. Right not to mention

517
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: that are like cooperating with any kind of law enforcement

518
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: is Yeah. The cartels, even back then were infamous for

519
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: their brutality, they're in humanity, their cruelty, and being an informant,

520
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: regardless of which cartel is. This was medie related, but

521
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: being an informant is a tremendous, profound sin in the

522
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: culture of cartel's. This means that if you are caught snitching, you, uh,

523
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: the the thought of a quick, clean death is an

524
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: unreasonably happy outcome. Pigs will fly before. The cleanest way

525
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: you can die is by your own hand. That's it.

526
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: If Yeah, well it's almost it would be. If you

527
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: could control how this person dies, it would not be

528
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: a fast death, right, that's the that's the idea, right,

529
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: because they the cartel at plans, right, they didn't just

530
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: want him dead for informing or cost him millions and

531
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: lost products. And let's be honest, that's compounded on millions

532
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: and bribes because now the the government officials they're bribing

533
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: have more leverage to say, oh, well, things are getting

534
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: a little hot right now. You know, I wouldn't want

535
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: the US president finding out about this. And they're like,

536
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: come on, Oliver, be cool, Oliver North, Yeah, exactly. Well,

537
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: and then let's talk about the situation. He's alone in

538
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: his car at the Salvation Army some and approaches him

539
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: and shoots the bullets into him while he's sitting there

540
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: in his car. If this were a situation where it

541
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: was preferable to kidnap him, it seems like that would

542
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: have been an easy situation to accommodate that, right because

543
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: the way cartels do it, the way cartels handle this

544
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: stuff internally, as they'll put out a bounty, and the

545
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: bounty will have a pricing schedule based on the person

546
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: being delivered alive which is preferable, the person being delivered

547
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: sort of alive but maimed, which is a little bit less,

548
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: or the person being dead, which is proof of death.

549
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: You know, you have a body part or report or something.

550
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: Cartel wanted him kidnapped so they can slowly torture him,

551
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: not just to get their giggles and their jollies, but

552
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: also as an example for other potential turn coach who

553
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: are also pilots or government affiliates, and maybe even get

554
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: some information about who he talked to him without what

555
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: he told them, so they could get a sense of

556
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: how to get ahead of it. Right, Yeah, exactly, that's

557
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: assuming that they're not all already in cahoots with Uncle Sam. Right. So,

558
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, here here's the evidence. So Colombian

559
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: assassins were sent by the Medine cartel. They were apprehended

560
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: while trying to leave Louisiana shortly after Seal's murder. That's true.

561
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: The authorities then reasonably concluded seals murderers were hired by

562
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 1: the Achoa brothers. These three assassins were indicted on March.

563
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: In May of seven, these three men are convicted of

564
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: first degree murder and Seal's death. They are sentenced to

565
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: life in prison without parole. Their names are Louise Carlos

566
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: Glintedo Cruz, Miguel Videz and Bernardo Antonio Vasquez. And on

567
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: March sixteenth, one month after Seal is assassinated, then President

568
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan tries to get more congressional support for the contrast,

569
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: and he is showing off some photographs Seal is taken

570
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: during his time as an informant. Reagan suggests that a

571
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: top ranking Sandinista official is involved in drugs smuggly, which

572
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: is hilarious And I'm really sad that Reagan's comedy career

573
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: didn't take off. Then. He was a man ahead of

574
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: his time. He's in physical comedy in the in the

575
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: movies back in the day, right, Yeah, I mean he

576
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: does that's pretty comedic things in uh, in his time

577
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: as president too. So okay, should we talk about how

578
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: we feel about this one? Ye? Should we just go?

579
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: I mean, legally speaking, that's true. They were convicted, Well,

580
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: they were convicted showing that they actually pulled the trigger

581
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: and knowing that they were trying to leave the country

582
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: after this guy died. It feels like two very different things.

583
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: But I guess if they were convicted, I don't know

584
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: the full details. We don't have the full details will

585
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: lay out here for you about you know, the weapons

586
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: that were used in the bullets that were found and

587
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: trajectory and all of the forensics on that scene. But

588
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, okay, that feels plausible. Yes, now we'll enter

589
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 1: the realm of what is still oddly sorry, let me

590
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: be serious when I say this. Uh, now we're entering

591
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: the realm of what is still oddly enough considered conspiracy theory.

592
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: What if Uncle Sam was somehow involved. What if the

593
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: FEDS were somehow involved, what would their motivation be? The

594
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: motivation for the cartel is that, uh, this guy was

595
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: an informant and bad for business and could make business

596
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: even worse if, as you said, old, they got information

597
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: from him and he could testify, and he could testify. Yeah,

598
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam's motivation for those who believe that the US

599
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: was involved in this assassination was that he could he could, Uh,

600
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: those benefiting from the snitch would become the victims of

601
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: the snitch, and that that Barry Steal wouldn't just give

602
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: intel to the d e A about the cartel operations,

603
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: but he would eventually be in a public court of

604
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: law saying yeah, let me name some names and people

605
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: on the CIA's uh you know, their payroll. Let me

606
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: name some names of the people in the FBI who

607
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 1: got me out of all those times I got caught

608
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: and with the plane for real, Let's let's go over

609
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: all this stuff first. Then I just want to talk

610
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah. And one other thing, possible involvement in

611
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: the JFK assassination, because Tosh plum Lake, who we mentioned earlier,

612
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: stated numerous times that he flew a secret flight taking

613
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: the CIA to the assassination site because the CIA knew

614
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: that the murder was coming and they actually wanted to

615
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: prevent it. That's plum trees statement. According to let's look

616
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: at the evidence though, Okay, so involvement in state sponsored

617
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: drug deals and maybe JFK assassination. According to one of

618
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: Seal's three wives, Deborrah, Barry Seal flew a ghetto way

619
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: playing out of Dallas after JFK was murdered. WHOA, that's intense,

620
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: and we have more descriptions. Tosh Plumbly pops up again,

621
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: giving us some details about Barry Steal's previous activity with

622
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: illegal government projects. Bers Berry Seal did a lot of

623
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: damn good stuff in the late sixties and sixties. Seven

624
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: and sixty eight, he was with the American South Vietnam

625
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: and LAOS doing search and destroy and special ops with

626
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: Ted Shackley's boys. Uh, he'd been recruiting, recruited even for

627
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: special ops because of the Cuban thing. Can we just

628
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: jump in here and talk about his involvement right there

629
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: with Air America. Hello, let's do it. Hello, everybody that's

630
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: the front are America in South Vietnam? Yeah, I mean

631
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: remember how he got out Scott free for that first arrested. Well,

632
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: according to Uh, I'm a gentleman named Pete Bruton who

633
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Mafia Cia and George Bush. Uh.

634
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: He says, as soon as Seal was freed, he quote

635
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: began working full time for the c i A, traveling

636
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: back and forth from the U S to Latin America.

637
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: And then we have a statement from Daniel hop Sicker.

638
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: Hop Sicker claims that Seal was now sheep dipped into

639
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: the d e A as an agent for the Special

640
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: Operations Group. Seal worked under a guy named Lucien Coning,

641
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: who ran secret missions for the d e A. Sheep

642
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: dipped is intelligence community slang which means to give someone

643
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: a pretty water proof, if not iron clad, alternate identity,

644
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: so make pickles or whatever. There you go. Hopefully it

645
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: was better than that one. Uh So this is weird though,

646
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: here's another piece. So those are three pieces of evidence

647
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: that Uncle Sam may have been involved. The fourth piece,

648
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 1: which I think is one of the most difficult to deny,

649
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: is that despite being apparently a very very very valuable

650
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: ass and witness, he had absolutely no protection when he

651
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 1: was out in the field. He had He was out

652
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: in the wild with no guards and no monitoring. And

653
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: the local legal machinery caught wind of this and they

654
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: were livid. After Seal died, Louisiana Attorney General William Goost

655
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: hand delivered a letter to U S Attorney General Edwin

656
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 1: Mee in protest of the government's failure to protect Seal.

657
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: Goose called him a heinous criminal, but he added at

658
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: the same time, of all his own purposes, he had

659
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: made himself an extremely valuable witness and infollmant in the

660
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: conscious fight against illegal drugs. Barris Seal's murder suggests the

661
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: need for an in depth but rapid investigation into a

662
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: number of areas. Why was such an important witness not

663
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: given protection, whether he wanted it or not, There's still

664
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: no answer to this question today, because if you are,

665
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: if you are an informant like that or important witness,

666
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: you don't get to a shoe protection like you can

667
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: say no, you can't come in my house, for instance,

668
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: but you can't you can't stop somebody from parking that

669
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: window list flower van down the street. Oh for sure,

670
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: but no one was there sleep at the switch. You know,

671
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: there's even uh, there's an attorney who who gives you

672
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: kind of It's a great picture of probably what occurred

673
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: within Barry seals life numerous times where he was caught

674
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: red hand in smuggling drugs. The d e A, the

675
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: c i A get involved that when they show up

676
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: the people who actually were there who said, you know,

677
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: put your hands up, we've found all your drugs. You're

678
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: under arrest. Those guys get told to get the heck

679
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: out of there, while the d A and c c

680
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: i A come through out, Yeah, and they take over

681
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: the operation. Then who knows what actually occurs to very deal,

682
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: But it doesn't appear that he's being charged with anything. Nope,

683
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: So are we complicit here? What gifts? Yeah? At this

684
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: point again to be absolutely and I would argue overly fair.

685
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: The three Cartel assassins are legally considered the guilty parties here,

686
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: one of them has already died in prison. But it

687
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: does seem strange if you think about the way organized

688
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: crime works in this, in this, you know, in this

689
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: theater of underground war, it seems very strange that the

690
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: cartel might risk an assassination when there's already so much

691
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: heat on seal and so much media attention. Why would

692
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: you risk angering the world's most dangerous and largest military

693
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: governmental apparatus if you could find any other possible way

694
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: to do it, like because that that could easily spark

695
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: a war. So that means that the cartel must have

696
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: had some sort of internal logic or calculation, because they

697
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: are a rational actor, they must have said, uh, this

698
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: is somehow worth it. Well for a while there he

699
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: is sending a ton of product over into a market

700
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: for it to be sold right for these cartels, So

701
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: he is certainly valuable to them. He has whatever connections

702
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: he needs to have, and he's a skilled enough pilot

703
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 1: to where he is the guy that they're looking for.

704
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: They already had plenty of skilled pilots that they could find,

705
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: they did, but he had some special sauce with connections

706
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: with people or something, right, I mean, it has you

707
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: have to imagine that he there is something special to

708
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: this guy. It's a combination of the skill and also

709
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: that hood spot you were talking about at the top

710
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 1: of the show, Ben, I mean, it takes a special

711
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: kind of bravado to make these flights so regularly and

712
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: not be you know, scared of the consequences. Right, Yeah, So,

713
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's a valid point, and it's

714
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: something that he supported to in interviews that people had

715
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: with him before his death. He said, you know, putting

716
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 1: yourself in life and endangering situations is what I'm all about.

717
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: But again, it's it's a question why would the cartel

718
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: do such a blatant, obvious hit and get caught and

719
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: then not why did the U. S. Government take no

720
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: real action against the cartel Because they did get caught,

721
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: the cartel may have had a green light from the U. S. Government.

722
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of people believe. The medine Hits

723
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: story always had this big flaw. Who would try to

724
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: kill one of the CIA's own. And then this means

725
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: that we inevitably trace back the bread crumbs along you know,

726
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: the strings along the web and ask ourselves could this

727
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 1: be related to the story of the octopus and Danny

728
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: Castelero or related investigators like Gary Webb, both of those men,

729
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: by the way, who died under what are arguably mysterious circumstances.

730
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: It really feels like it's connected up to all of

731
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 1: these things that we've talked about before, This concept of

732
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: the US military and intelligence agencies, at least factions of

733
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: them working with drug cartels using this money to finance

734
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: essentially conflict in other countries in South America and other

735
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: places for coups like this money maker. You know, it's

736
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: it's crazy. It feels like there's something much, much bigger.

737
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we kind of get we we get these

738
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: tiny little windows right through all these men's stories of

739
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: the investigators who seem to have found something or have

740
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: worked in some capacity but end up losing their lives.

741
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: But it really does feel like somebody needs to come

742
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: forward and give a really big picture to what this

743
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: really looks like. People have said they were about to

744
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: and you know, we don't know if they all have

745
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: the same big picture, but one thing is for sure,

746
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 1: they keep dying before the word gets out. Yeah, we're

747
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we are only not trying to do that.

748
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: Women do not have a big picture. No, we do

749
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: not know an essay. In turn, we do not. We

750
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: are just some guys reading stuff on the internet and

751
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: watching some movies. That's all. Except well, Paul knows a

752
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: little more. But he's oh no, no, he's saying he doesn't.

753
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 1: He'll never tell them. I'll never tell So it's it's

754
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: strange because we draw to an unhappy conclusion. During the

755
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: bulk of Barry Steal's career, at the time, most people

756
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: and media outlets refused to acknowledge the CIA's deep involvement

757
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: in the Central and South American drug trade. You know,

758
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: the idea that someone was bringing cocaine that would later

759
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: be made into crack into urban areas in the eighties. Uh,

760
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: the idea that the government would be at all aware

761
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: of that was treated as anathema in in mainstream media,

762
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: and instead these accusations would be dismissed as conspiracy theories,

763
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: which is odd when you think about it, because dismissing

764
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: that stuff as a conspiracy theory meant those same authorities,

765
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 1: the NBC S, the CBS s, and so on, were

766
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: participating in the very conspiracy they purported to investigate and

767
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: dismiss and even now mentioned this at the top. Some

768
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: people will argue Seal was never involved with the c

769
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: i A. And that's based on entirely on a statement

770
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: in court and the fact that those statements were considered

771
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: sworn testimony, which is like they put their hand on

772
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: a book, they said they would tell the truth, and

773
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 1: so an ergo everything they say after that point must

774
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: be true. What a broken system. But we have a

775
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: statement from former FBI agent Del Han explaining this. The

776
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: only federal agency Seal ever worked with was the d

777
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: e A. Seal sworn testimony was that he had no

778
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 1: knowledge of ever working for the CIA. In debriefings after

779
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: his plea bargain, he never told me or anyone else

780
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: he was a CIA asset or had worked for any

781
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: agency other than the d e A. Our task force

782
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: never developed any evidence that the CIA was involved with

783
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: Seal in drug smuggling. There is not one iota of

784
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: credible evidence that Seal ever worked for the CIA or

785
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: assisted them in any operations. And the CIA denied any

786
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: connection with Seal. Oh, okay, so that solves it. Yeah,

787
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: I mean he's under oath and I guess we believe him,

788
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,959
Speaker 1: and the CIA said they didn't do anything. Of course

789
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: they did, why would they do anything? So we do

790
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,479
Speaker 1: have to note that Han does admit at least four

791
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: CIA associated pilots also smuggled various things into and out

792
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: of South America, so he knew it happened. He's not

793
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: saying it didn't happen. He's just saying that the CIA

794
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: and SEAL both denied involvement and they couldn't find anything,

795
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: so he thinks it's not true. But enough about agent hand,

796
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 1: what do you think you listening now, would a government

797
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: agency actually cooperate with a drug cartel to murder one

798
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: of their own For believers of certain GfK conspiracy theories,

799
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: the answer is obvious, but we want to hear from

800
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: you and and also what do you guys think is

801
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: this also kind of almost like a false flag attack

802
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: where it's like not an attack like in the sense

803
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 1: of a war, but it's like a subterfuge right where

804
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: it's like, of course it was the cartel that killed him,

805
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: all signs point to that, you know, but it was

806
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: actually us making it look like those the cartels that

807
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: killed him, because that was the easiest thing to you know,

808
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: that was the easiest, most logical explanation. I guess right, well,

809
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: the whole thing is a proxy war that he's getting

810
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: involved with, whether he knows it or not, and he's

811
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: playing both sides. It's so tough. It's so tough. You're

812
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: asking what we think, ben so so who Let's let's

813
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 1: just put it this way. Is the d e A

814
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: going to send a crapload of C four in a

815
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: plane over to assist either side with Cuba? D A,

816
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 1: probably not c I A shrug, Dot Gift. I mean,

817
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: shrug for sure, Dodd Gift. But I guess what I'm saying,

818
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: is this this idea that he wasn't working for them

819
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 1: in some way that would entail him working I guess

820
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: for himself directly with you know, Fidel Castro's crew to

821
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: bring all that the C four over to them. Was

822
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: he just like a patsy? Was he just kind of

823
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 1: like a pawn because he got screwed and then kind

824
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: of had to continue playing both sides for his own

825
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: well being? I guess, you know what I mean. I

826
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: don't know, like he was just it seemed like he

827
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: was at one point being super clever, and then something

828
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 1: went wrong, and then he kind of didn't have control

829
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: over his own destiny anymore. Right. Well, Also, former FBI

830
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 1: agent that we talked about earlier, Haunt said the evidence

831
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: indicated if he had not been shot, he already had

832
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 1: plans to jump jump probation, leave town, live in Costa Rica,

833
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: and start cocaine operations up again the next day. He

834
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: was leaving the next day. Interesting. So it makes you

835
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: wonder if someone found out about that FBI and put

836
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: a stop to it. Um, that's just me talking, by

837
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: the way. I'm gonna say personally my opinion, and I

838
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: don't want to color I don't want to influence anybody

839
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: writing into us what we want. We do want to

840
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: hear your takes. But my opinion, based on the stuff

841
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: we found, is that maybe not the CIA proper, but

842
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: factions within the CIA or factions within related government agencies

843
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: absolutely greenlit this staff and in in the way in

844
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: such a way that there would be plausible deniability, you

845
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I would have to agree with you, Ben,

846
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: because it I mean, we've kind of outlined exactly why.

847
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't make sense to just shoot a

848
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: guy sitting there where he was, you know, in his

849
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: car where he was if you really wanted to get

850
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: revenge on him, how it feels more like shutting him up? Yeah? Well,

851
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: how did the how did the cartels do it? Why?

852
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if it feels like I'm not saying

853
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: the ce I told him to do it. But at

854
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: the very least, as we say in the South, the C,

855
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: the CIA, and the U S government did not hurt

856
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: their neck looking for the responsible parties and they didn't.

857
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: They also didn't protect an asset that they had in him.

858
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 1: The elso didn't retaliate, Yeah, which is weird because we

859
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: were pretty pro retaliation culture here in the US. I

860
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: don't know, what do you think? No, No, I agree

861
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: with you guys completely, Like it's there's just no logical

862
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 1: way of explaining this whole thing without there being some

863
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: kind of weird double dealing by our government. The biggest

864
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: question for me, and you actually have put this in

865
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: the end of the outline here, Ben, the biggest thing

866
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: that we kind of glossed over, but we we mentioned

867
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: it for sure, his possible involvement with the JFK assassination. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

868
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: what if that's the reason. I don't know, you know,

869
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: the plumbly story about the CIA attempting to prevent the

870
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: assassination was fascinating to me. I think also at times

871
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: it's tempting, for we've talked about this in the past,

872
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: it's tempting for us to think of these agencies as

873
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: monolithic entities. They most certainly are not. Things are very

874
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: competitive at that level, their rivals. I'm sure there's more

875
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: than a bit of ego involved. Anyone is corruptible, and

876
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: people who seem to in public speaking and so on,

877
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: get get along, well maybe working backstage for directly um,

878
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: directly contradictory forces, you know. Well, And we just have

879
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: to mention here that a human being can be convinced

880
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: fairly easily that one course of action is not only

881
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: the best course of action, but it is also either

882
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: just or it is um. I don't know how to

883
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: how to put this correctly, That the doing A is

884
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: the right thing to do, and we have to do

885
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: A in order to achieve our goals. Right, and the

886
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 1: greater good argument, the greater good argument can be so

887
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 1: many different things. For one situation, um, that you could

888
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: have factions who are simultaneously within the CIA attempting to

889
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: this is just hypothetic factions within the CIA attempting to

890
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,720
Speaker 1: assassinate the president, whi at the same time, a faction

891
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: of the CIA is attempting to stop the the other

892
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: part of the CIA from assassinating the president, whether they

893
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: know the other one is doing, whether or not there's

894
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: some true blue idealists or patriots. And then, I don't

895
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 1: know the scary thing about so much congressional testimony, especially

896
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: when you get to uh, private and public entities cooperating,

897
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: which is just the drug cartels a business. It's it's uh,

898
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: it's products may differ from Halliburton, but that doesn't mean

899
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,919
Speaker 1: it's also they're not both international businesses and the FAI

900
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: earlier to realize that leads to a great many problems

901
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: and discourse today. If you see those congressional testimonies, they're

902
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: chilling because a lot of what people describe as they're

903
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: greater good means taking something that will be good for

904
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: me and making it great other people. Be damned. There's

905
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: a ton of narcissism and this kind of stuff, and yeah,

906
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: it's disgusting and reprehensible to see it justified quote unquote

907
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 1: as like oh, we're we're fighting communism. That's why I

908
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: need a million dollars or whatever. And it's it's just

909
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: a it's a macro cosmic view of what happens in

910
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: a micro cosmic way every single day of of a

911
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: person's life. I'm not saying that every person listening does

912
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. I'm saying that you certainly know

913
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: someone who has screwed you or people you care about

914
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 1: over because they saw a greater good and they thought,

915
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: like no one thinks that of the bad guy. It's

916
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 1: all for the greater good all the time. The person

917
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: who steals handicapped parking space says, the psychological engine is

918
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: the same. It's a me, me me thing. Sure, And

919
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 1: I guess the scary thing is that you can convince

920
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: people with the perhaps false motivation there of finding communism,

921
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: you can convince people that that is the true thing

922
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: you're fighting for, and then you can get people to

923
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: do things for you for our interest, for national security.

924
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: I don't know what what do you folks think? Yes,

925
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: please write to us. We you can find us on

926
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: Twitter and on Facebook. Were conspiracy stuff. We are conspiracy

927
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: stuff show on Instagram. You guys have your own Instagrams, right, Yeah?

928
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at how now Noel

929
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 1: Brown and you can find me at Ben Bolan on

930
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: Instagram and at then bolan hsw on Twitter. If you

931
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: don't like social media, you can give us a call.

932
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: Your comments might get on the air. Tell us about

933
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: what you think about this episode. Tell us what you

934
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: think about some other topic or some topic you'd like

935
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: for us to dig into. Really anything you want to do,

936
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: just a personal message for one of us. Do it,

937
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: we don't care. Sing a song, do a dance what

938
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: I was going to do the whole lyrics, but I don't.

939
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: I don't know them. Make a little love? Oh get

940
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,919
Speaker 1: down tonight? Is that the one? Well, don't do that.

941
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: Just leave a message and you might get on the air.

942
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,919
Speaker 1: That's that's the whole thing. Here's our number one eight

943
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. Hey do

944
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: us a solid leave us a review on whatever podcast

945
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: platform of choice that you consume this uh, this podcast on,

946
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: especially if it's Apple Podcast, because that's the one that

947
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: really lets people discover the show and kind of gives

948
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: the algorithm a kick in the pants. On our behalf

949
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: um because yeah, we could definitely use some more reviews

950
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: for the size of the show and how many of

951
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: you are listening. I would say we're a little light

952
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: on the review. So do us a solid and make

953
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: us make us a nice one. And if none of

954
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: that quite bags your badgers, we have good news. There

955
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: is one other way that you can communicate with us.

956
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: Aside from meeting at midnight at a crossroads. You can

957
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. We are Spiarcy

958
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You

959
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: to Know is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works.

960
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i

961
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

962
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.