1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Hanoi is one of the most rapidly developing cities in 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Asia and also has some of the poorest air quality 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: on the continent. Hongwi Tea was already keenly aware of 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: the city's pollution problem, but a study from Harvard University 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: brought the issue into sharper focus for her. 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: This is a video about Vietnamese activists. 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 3: Hong Hui Chi in twenty eighteen and she won the 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 3: Goldman Prize, a prestigious environmental award given to a handful 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 3: of extraordinarily impactful environmental activists every year. 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: She received the award. 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 3: For her work convincing the government not to include a 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 3: massive coal buildout in its energy blueprint for Hanoi. Four 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 3: years later, the Vietnamese government had arrested and imprisoned her 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: for tax evasion, charges that legal observers have deemed false 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 3: and politically motivated. For Other prominent environmental activists have also 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 3: been arrested and jailed for tax evasion in Vietnam since 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one. Here's Betsy Apple, executive director of the 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: Global Climate Legal Defense Network, to explain, you have. 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 4: Five people who were advocating for renewable energy policy in 20 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 4: Vietnam a just transition to sustainable energy sources, and four 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 4: people initially and then a fifth were arrested for tax 22 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 4: evasion and are in jail and have been criminally convicted 23 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 4: for tax evasion, which seems like it has nothing to 24 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 4: do with the climate, but in fact it's a way 25 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 4: that the Vietnamese government has been able to weaponize the 26 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 4: law against people whose activities they don't like in the 27 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 4: context of the climate. 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: Person she mentioned was another internationally renowned environmental activist. 29 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 5: Honk team Meing Honk in Hoshim in Vietnam. 30 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: This is a press conference that the UN held about 31 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 3: the arrest. 32 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 5: According to credible sources, Honk and several colleagues were detained 33 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 5: for questioning by the Police Division for Economic Crimes on Wednesday, 34 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 5: while others were subsequently released and asked to return to 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 5: the police station for further questioning. She was presented with 36 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 5: a temporary detention ordered with chargs of alleged tax evasion. 37 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 6: Hong is an Obama Foundation scholar who, along with her colleagues, 38 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 6: successfully advocated for the government to committal policy of NAZERI 39 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 6: carbon missions by twenty fifty. 40 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: Ben Swanton, co director of the nonprofit eighty eight Project 41 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: put out a report last month on this trend of 42 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: using tax division laws to lock up climate activists in Vietnam. 43 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 6: And Kong is probably the most activist of the group. 44 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 6: She took a particularly activist approach to her work that 45 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 6: involved educating the public and mobilizing communities to stop the 46 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 6: construction and financing of new coal fired power plants. So 47 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 6: in twenty seventeen, for example, her organization Changed spearheaded a 48 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 6: petition to stop the construction of a call fired power 49 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 6: plant in Vietnam's Longand Province, which gained about fifteen thousand 50 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 6: signatures and was widely shared on social media. Work on 51 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 6: the petition, however, had to stop after. 52 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 7: Change came under fire from the police. 53 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 6: At the time, Holme said that the signatures were planned 54 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 6: to be sent to South Korean owners and investors of 55 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 6: the planned col fed power plant, and also to Vietnamese 56 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 6: government leaders, but due to police harassment, she and our 57 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 6: organizations decided not to send the pocision. 58 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: Following the rest of four other climate activists between twenty 59 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: twenty one and twenty twenty two, Hong had closed her 60 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: environmental organization. 61 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 5: She feared she would also be prosecuted. The chilling effect 62 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 5: on such cases brought under tax laws is palpable among 63 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 5: civing society in Vietnam, and rask holding back debate on 64 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 5: issues of importance to society as a whole. 65 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 3: President Biden is in Vietnam right now as part of 66 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: a general move that the US government is making to 67 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 3: upgrade its diplomatic and trade relationship with the country. Human 68 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 3: rights advocates are encouraging the president to address the government's 69 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: move to lock up climate activists and perhaps even make 70 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 3: certain aspects of the relationship between two countries contingent on 71 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: the Vietnamese government committing to protecting civil society. Quiden's visit 72 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: is his first as president. When former President Obama visited 73 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 3: at the end of his presidency, he met with a 74 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 3: handful of activists in Vietnam. 75 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 8: I just had a wonderful conversation with some pre eminent 76 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 8: civil society activists here in Vietnam, and I just want 77 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 8: to thank them for taking the time to meet with 78 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 8: me and discussing with me some of the important work 79 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 8: that they're doing and the progress that's being made here 80 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 8: in Vietnam. 81 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: Two of those activists he mentioned there are now in 82 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: prison on trumped up tax evasion charges. That's our story 83 00:05:49,200 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: today after the break, Welcome back to drill the real 84 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: free speech threat. I'm Amy Westervelt. Ben Swanton says his 85 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: report was meant to document something a lot of people 86 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: have been speculating about in Vietnam. 87 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 6: An attempt, you know, to really do a deep dive 88 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 6: investigation into what a lot. 89 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 7: Of people perceived to be a series. 90 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 6: Of politically motivated prosecutions, but you know, there was little 91 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 6: evidence to substantiate that, and at the same time to also, 92 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 6: you know, explore some of the nuances of the political 93 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 6: context of Vietnam and what's been going on since Wenzoodchop 94 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 6: and his hardline faction of Becoming a Society came into 95 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 6: power in twenty sixteen. 96 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: The Vietnam example is very interesting for US people, I 97 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: think because the sort of conservatives people in the US 98 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: are very much like, oh, these protesters are communists and whatnot. 99 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: And you look at what's happening in Vietnam, and you 100 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: have a communist government locking people up for protests, but 101 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: saying and doing a lot of the same things that 102 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: people in quote unquote democratic countries are doing too. 103 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 6: So it's it's an interesting dynamic, right, I guess you know. 104 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 7: One thing to. 105 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 6: Note is that Vietnam is is communist in name only. 106 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 6: It's very little that's socialists about the contemporary Vietnamese state. 107 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 6: Communities have almost no control of policy making, and there's 108 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 6: no democratic or popular control of enterprises and films. And 109 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 6: I think you know one important place to start is 110 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 6: that Vietnam is a one party state. People can't vote 111 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 6: their government out of power, and so since the end 112 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 6: of the Vietnam War and subsequent reunification, the Communist Party 113 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 6: has been the only game in town, and the party 114 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 6: doesn't accept any political opposition. People who have tried to 115 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 6: establish independent political parties have been in prison and persecuted, 116 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 6: and those organizations that they've established have been immediately smashed. 117 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 6: So there are very few avenues available to Vietnamese people 118 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 6: who want to participate in politics. 119 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: Could I have you talk a little bit about the 120 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 2: Vietnam four or I understand it's now five people. 121 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 7: So the five are. 122 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 6: My Fanli Back, Houng Zoom Dunding Back, and Juan Ti Minghong, 123 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 6: who was arrested on during the first of twenty twenty three. 124 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 7: So she's the most recent person. 125 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 6: To be arrested and they. 126 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 7: Were all charged with tax evasion. 127 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: Was there anything in particular that spurred this sudden kind 128 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: of push to criminalize them in the last couple of years. 129 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 6: Yeah, So what I argue in the report is that 130 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 6: the criminalization of climate activism in Vietnam actually reflects a 131 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 6: broader issue of criminalization of policy activism and civil society movements. 132 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 6: And this is something that has intensified since when Fuchamp 133 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 6: and his hardline faction of the Communist Party came to 134 00:09:58,679 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 6: power in twenty sixteen. 135 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 7: Yeah. 136 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 6: One of the first things that he did was to 137 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 6: submit hostility to the very concept of civil society in 138 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 6: official party policy. And I think we can understand these 139 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 6: arrests as a backlash to not only the organizing that 140 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 6: these folks did, but the fact that they were actually 141 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 6: successful and pushed the government to commit to a policy 142 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 6: of net zero carbon emissions by twenty fifty and therefore 143 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 6: challenge the Communist Party's monopoly on policy making. And the 144 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 6: way they did this was by organizing nonprofits to non 145 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 6: governmental organizations into powerful advocacy coalitions that worked within the system, 146 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 6: within the law and within the rules, and let leverage 147 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 6: state institutions like the state run media and sympathetic government 148 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 6: officials to advocate for progressive policy change, and immediately after. 149 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 7: They did that, they were rounded up and attained and 150 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 7: arrested and challenged. 151 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: But I thought it was interesting how all five of 152 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 2: these people were doing three different types of activism. That 153 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 2: there's someone who's involved in media, there's a lawyer activist. 154 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: I'm curious if that's something that's happening across the board 155 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: with civil society in general, where it's an effort to 156 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: go after not just people who might be showing up 157 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: in the street with a protest sign, but also doing 158 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: these professional services type job. 159 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, I think so, And that's why I said, 160 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 6: I think that the criminalization of climate activism in Vietnam 161 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 6: is the tip of the iceberg of a broader crackdown 162 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 6: on activism, des scent and civil society. And so we 163 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 6: can understand this as an attempt by the Communist Party 164 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 6: to prevent anyone challenging its monopoly on policy making by, 165 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 6: for example, organizing registered nonprofits into advocacy coalitions to advocate 166 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 6: for more progressive climate policies, and also by cracking down 167 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 6: on efforts to create an autonomous civil society movement. These 168 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 6: individuals were not just climate activists, they were also press 169 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 6: freedom activists, they were civil society activists. They were trying 170 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 6: to create independent institutions, and that was a bridge too 171 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 6: far for the Communis spot. 172 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting too that you mentioned, I 173 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 2: think towards the end of the report, this idea that. 174 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 7: I'm going to forget the name of it, the particular JETP, 175 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 7: the agreement, that's right. 176 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was super interesting and also applicable 177 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: in a lot of different situations as we head into 178 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: COPP this idea that it's not just a matter of 179 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: countries taking climate action, it's also a matter of preserving 180 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: civil society. I was wondering if you could talk about 181 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: that in a little bit more detail. 182 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 6: So in December twenty twenty two, the just NTY Transition Partnership, 183 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 6: of which the United States is a member, agreed to 184 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 6: provide fifteen billion dollars in funding to help Vietnam cut 185 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 6: its reliance on fossil fields. 186 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 7: This is a third such agreement that's been. 187 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 6: Made between the G seven and developing countries. GETP stands 188 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 6: for Just Energy Transition Partnership and it's supposed to be 189 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 6: just in that it is based on a recognition of 190 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 6: the historical responsibility of industrialized Western. 191 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 7: Nations in creating the problem of climate. 192 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 6: Change and its disproportionate impact on developing countries like Vietnam, 193 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 6: although another aspect of justice is that the people who 194 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 6: will be affected by the transition to renewable energy should 195 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 6: have a say in deciding how the process is designed 196 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 6: and implemented, and recognizing this, the declaration that established the 197 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 6: JETP for Vietnam states that for the transition to be 198 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 6: just and equitable, regular consultation is required with media, non 199 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 6: governmental organizations, and other stakeholders. But the Vietnamese government imprisonment 200 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 6: of the country's leading climate activists makes a mockery of 201 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 6: this requirement because obviously there can't be a just transition 202 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 6: while the leaders of the climate change movement remain behind bars. 203 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 6: And so what organizations like Mine Projectity eight have been 204 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 6: advocating for is for donor countries to jet P, that is, 205 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 6: the G seven, including the United States and also Denmark 206 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 6: and Norway, to start attaching some conditionality to this aid 207 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 6: and at the very least secure the release of these 208 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 6: climate activists from prison. 209 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 7: In Vietnam before they go ahead. 210 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 6: With funding the country's energy transition, although unfortunately, up until now, 211 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 6: there's been very little political will to make any demands 212 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 6: of the Vietnamese government, let a leone to actually condition 213 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 6: the aid on the release of the activists. And so 214 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 6: I think what we're seeing here is climate change diplomacy 215 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 6: taking precedence over human rights, and climate change diplomats like 216 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 6: Special Presidential ONLDE John Kerry, being more concerned about preserving 217 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 6: diplomatic accomplishments like JETP than securing the release of the activists. 218 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: I have to say, I've been surprised that I don't 219 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: know that I've heard any high level climate negotiator from 220 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: a global north country, at least recently, talking about the 221 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: need to even address this issue at COP Are you 222 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: seeing that is there any appetite for having that discussion 223 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: or including human rights in the discussions. 224 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 6: I haven't either, and I can only imagine that they're 225 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 6: not talking about it because it's not a priority to that. 226 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 7: When they do talk about. 227 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 6: Human rights, it's often in more general terms or in 228 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 6: terms of the right to a clean environment. So this 229 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 6: is what I talk about as being an example of 230 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 6: human righted defenders being left out. 231 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 2: I don't think that Vietnam is unique in terms of 232 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 2: repression of climate activists, being very much tied to repression 233 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 2: of civil society and dissent in general, and I think 234 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: it kind of goes hand in hand with a breakdown 235 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: of civil society across the board. So, you know, I 236 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,719 Speaker 2: don't know how people think they're going to get climate 237 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: action without civil society. 238 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 7: Well, the theory of change. 239 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 6: That the g seven seems to be putting forward is 240 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 6: that it's going to happen as a result of diplomacy 241 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 6: and cooperation between states. Yeah, if you look at the 242 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 6: text of the GFP agreement, for example, civil society is 243 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 6: not even mentioned. It only mentions the media and non 244 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 6: governmental organizations, and it just says that these institutions need 245 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 6: to be consulted. 246 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 7: So civil society isn't viewed. 247 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 6: As playing a major role in the transition to real 248 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 6: energy sources. And I think that it's just based on 249 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 6: an inaccurate understanding of how progressive change comes about. Though, 250 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 6: I suspect that it's easier to pretend that through diplomatic 251 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 6: initiatives and a very state centric process, we're going to 252 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 6: be able to solve the threat of climate change. So 253 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 6: something that my organization has observed is that the year 254 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 6: twenty twenty three marks the tenth anniversary of the Vietnam 255 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 6: United States Comprehensive partnership. But far from promoting greater respect 256 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 6: for human rights, the achievement of closer ties between the 257 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 6: US and Vietnam has actually coincided with a significant increase 258 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 6: in human rights abuses by the Vietnamese government against its 259 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 6: own citizens, and there are several indicators of this. One 260 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 6: is the fact that Vietnam kills more of its own 261 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 6: citizens than almost any other country in the world. Between 262 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 6: twenty thirteen and twenty sixteen, which is the most recent 263 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 6: time period for which data is available, the government went 264 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 6: on a killing spree, executing four hundred and twenty nine people, 265 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 6: and this puts Vietnam behind only China under Iran in 266 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 6: its use of the death penalty. And this happened at 267 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 6: the time when globally, use of the death penalty is 268 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 6: at an all time low. So at the end of 269 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 6: twenty twenty two, one hundred and twelve countries had abolished 270 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 6: the death penalty for all crimes. 271 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 7: But instead of. 272 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 6: Ceasing this barbaric practice, Vietnam continues to execute people at 273 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 6: an alarming rate, and government plans show that the country 274 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 6: tends to expand its capacity to administer executions in virtual 275 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 6: international isolation. And you know, to be sure, Vietnam was 276 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 6: never a beacon of human rights, but the situation has 277 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 6: worsened since twenty sixteen, when when FUCHA sees power and 278 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 6: under Chunk's reign, the Ministry of Public Security, which is 279 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 6: the police force, has overseen a brutal crackdown and active 280 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 6: business dessent in civil society, and they've imprisoned scores of 281 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 6: dissenters and human rights activists for violating general and vague 282 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 6: provisions in the country's penal code, which criminalizes all sorts 283 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 6: of behaviors such as conducting propaganda against the state and 284 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 6: abusing democratic freedoms. Vietnam now has close to two hundred 285 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 6: political prisoners, but it's important to note that this number 286 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 6: masks how many people have been persecuted into silence or 287 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 6: into exile, and the results of this crackdown have meant 288 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 6: the full disclosure of the early independent publishing houses, the 289 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 6: early Independent Journalists Association, and the early independent anti corruption organization. 290 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: That we're all trading in the country, all That would 291 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,239 Speaker 2: seem like pretty important stuff for Biden to bring up 292 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: as he is upgrading the United States relationship with Vietnam. 293 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 2: But then he might have to say. 294 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 3: Something about the climate activists being jailed and falsely accused 295 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 3: in his own country too. Don't worry, we're going to 296 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 3: get into that story soon. That's it for this week. 297 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.