Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: We're watching out of course for any more news on
Speaker 2: the EUUs trade talks. But another big event is happening
Speaker 2: here in Brussels today. The European Commission due to present
Speaker 2: its plan for its next seven year budget for the EU,
Speaker 2: which will be worth well over a trillion euros. It's
Speaker 2: the start of a long political process that we'll have
Speaker 2: far reaching consequences for the EU's future. Joining me now
Speaker 2: in studio to discuss that and more as the EU's
Speaker 2: Commissioner for Democracy, Justice, Rule of Law and Consumer Protection,
Speaker 2: Michael mcgra Michael McGraw, Good morning, Good morning, Stephen Bloomberg Radio. Now,
Speaker 2: you have a very large portfolio, as your job title
Speaker 2: attests too, but I did want to just start with
Speaker 2: that issue of trade, where of course waiting to see
Speaker 2: what might happen on that front. Can a deal be
Speaker 2: done by the first of August? The time is ticking
Speaker 2: away now.
Speaker 1: Yes, I believe it can. We have two weeks ahead.
Speaker 1: I think of intense negotiations. It is in everybody's interests
Speaker 1: that there is a deal, that we achieve trade peace,
Speaker 1: and that we secure a stable turn of trade for
Speaker 1: businesses on both sides of the Atlantic. This is the
Speaker 1: most important trade and investment relationship in the world between
Speaker 1: the EU and US. It is unquestionably mutually beneficial, supporting
Speaker 1: millions of jobs in both the US and the EU.
Speaker 1: These are challenging, complex negotiations. We were surprised and disappointed
Speaker 1: to receive the letter last weekend flagging the possibility of
Speaker 1: thirty percent tariffs because the negotiations had been progressing well overall,
Speaker 1: and we remain focused as an EU on the substantive
Speaker 1: discussions because it's a big prize if we can secure
Speaker 1: an agreement and we can do what we do best
Speaker 1: in the EU, which is export goods and services all
Speaker 1: over the world, and we want to give our businesses
Speaker 1: the certainty that they need so that they can make
Speaker 1: decisions in camera waters Now.
Speaker 2: I mentioned as well the YOUU bodget so the Commission
Speaker 2: proposal due to be published later. I know you can't
Speaker 2: go into the details of what's going to be in
Speaker 2: that unfortunately, but as a former finance minister, I wonder
Speaker 2: how you view this process and how difficult it's going
Speaker 2: to be because there are a lot of pressures financially
Speaker 2: on the EU repaying the debt being some of that
Speaker 2: as well. Is this going to be a very difficult
Speaker 2: budget negotiation?
Speaker 1: It will, and it's certainly a lengthy one, as you
Speaker 1: alluded to yourself, because the current multi annual financial framework
Speaker 1: runs to the end of twenty twenty seven, and in
Speaker 1: the EU you have a lot of stakeholders. You have
Speaker 1: the twenty seven member states, you have the European Parliament.
Speaker 1: The Commission will make the proposal, and it is being
Speaker 1: framed and challenging circumstances with the capital repayments on the
Speaker 1: COVID loans next generation EU beginning to be repaid from
Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight, so that does place additional pressure that
Speaker 1: could be twenty to twenty five billion euro every year.
Speaker 1: So that's the first call on the budget as such,
Speaker 1: and we have to consider what our appropriate new own resources.
Speaker 1: Where the EU will seek to raise additional revenue, we
Speaker 1: have to have an understanding of how much the member
Speaker 1: states are also willing to pay in and also then
Speaker 1: decide on the level of prioritization across a whole range
Speaker 1: of different spending programs. Ultimately, the adoption of a multi
Speaker 1: annual EU budget is subject to unanimity among the member states.
Speaker 1: So we need every single one eventually to sign off
Speaker 1: and approve it, and then it's subject to the consent
Speaker 1: of the European Parliament. They face a yes or no
Speaker 1: question and at the very end of the process, so yes,
Speaker 1: I think two years of tough negotiations ahead. Today is
Speaker 1: a significant day though, where the Commission agrees. Hopefully later
Speaker 1: on this morning, I'll be going to the College meeting
Speaker 1: directly after this interview, and I hope that we will
Speaker 1: be in a position to agree the draft budget that
Speaker 1: the Commission can propose.
Speaker 2: Okay, now you have previously spoken about using the EU's
Speaker 2: budget as a way to improve rule of law issues
Speaker 2: in the EU, which is a key part of your
Speaker 2: own portfolio. What would that like? Is this cash for reforms?
Speaker 1: So at the moment we do have rule of law
Speaker 1: conditionality built into the budgets. To be fair, the last Commission,
Speaker 1: the Member States and the Parliament all work together to
Speaker 1: build a pretty strong toolbox in the area of rule
Speaker 1: of law. But I think we have to learn from
Speaker 1: the lessons of recent years we have worked that remains
Speaker 1: to be done, as you will have seen in the
Speaker 1: rule of law reports to be published last week for
Speaker 1: every single country of the EU. There are challenges, there
Speaker 1: are outstanding issues. So we have been examining and considering
Speaker 1: what is the best rule of law architecture within the
Speaker 1: next MFF, and I think you will see changes. It's
Speaker 1: no secret that we are moving towards national and regional
Speaker 1: partnership plans, so we do intend to build in by
Speaker 1: design links to reforms as part of those plans, and
Speaker 1: that will include the funds.
Speaker 2: Hasn't really worked. I mean there's been billions frozen, for example,
Speaker 2: for hunger for many months now and there's no progress,
Speaker 2: as your report allated to in addressing some of the
Speaker 2: concerns the EU has. I mean, how much stricter do
Speaker 2: the rules need to be?
Speaker 1: Well, I think we need tools that are more agile
Speaker 1: and flexible so that we can respond more quickly, and
Speaker 1: also so that member states are absolutely clear what the
Speaker 1: expectations in relation to rule of law are and I
Speaker 1: think they really should have no excuses on that front.
Speaker 1: EU law takes primacy. We have our Charter of Fundamental Rights,
Speaker 1: so the requirements are clear. But we are now going
Speaker 1: to build in by design into the new MFF a
Speaker 1: set of architecture that I think will give us a
Speaker 1: very good prospect of achieving better compliance with rule of law,
Speaker 1: which isn't an optional extra It's a core obligation of
Speaker 1: EU membership. And we have a set of tools currently
Speaker 1: that I think can be refined, can be improved, and
Speaker 1: can make a positive difference.
Speaker 2: Later today, you're going to be speaking to businesses about
Speaker 2: the ease Data Protection rules the GDPR. You've already come
Speaker 2: up with some proposals that will ease some of the
Speaker 2: burden of those rules for small businesses. What sort of
Speaker 2: further changes could businesses expect on that more simplification.
Speaker 1: We are looking at this through the lens of simplification.
Speaker 1: I really want to hear from businesses, but other stakeholders
Speaker 1: too about what their practical day to day experience of
Speaker 1: GDPR is. GDPR is a global standard set by the EU.
Speaker 1: It is also treaty based, and we have an extensive
Speaker 1: amount of case law within the European Union from the
Speaker 1: Court of Justice. So for me, the question is, can
Speaker 1: we achieve the same very high standard of protection of
Speaker 1: personal data but in a way that is less burdensome,
Speaker 1: or in a way that can be simplified for those
Speaker 1: who carry the obligation. And I want to hear directly
Speaker 1: from all of the stakeholders about their experience. No doubt
Speaker 1: they will have many ideas. We do need to be
Speaker 1: careful because the protection of personal data is in our
Speaker 1: Charter of Fundamental Rights. It is a key pillar of
Speaker 1: the legal a key within the European Union. That will
Speaker 1: remain the case. But can we do it in a
Speaker 1: way that eases the burden and companies and others. That's
Speaker 1: the question that we'll be seeking to answer. And today
Speaker 1: is an important milestone because we'll have what we call
Speaker 1: an implementation dialogue and we will then reflect on what
Speaker 1: we have heard and consider whether we can frame proposals
Speaker 1: in that regard.
Speaker 2: Is there a risk that by making changes to GDPR
Speaker 2: that you're seen as perhaps following a lead that's coming
Speaker 2: from the US in terms of weakening protections in many
Speaker 2: areas as well? Is that a concern that when you're
Speaker 2: making changes that it's not seen as being following a
Speaker 2: lead that's been taken by the US in this area.
Speaker 1: We don't intend to weaken protections. I can be crystal
Speaker 1: clear on that, because it is a core right of
Speaker 1: EU citizens and we have to defend. Didn't stand over
Speaker 1: that and It's also the case that the EUS GDPR
Speaker 1: is the basis of a lot of international agreements and
Speaker 1: adequacy decisions. So with the United Kingdom, for example, we
Speaker 1: have a set of adequacy decisions which means that we
Speaker 1: recognize the standard set in each other's systems and that
Speaker 1: allows for data flows, and that set of data flows
Speaker 1: then underpinned trade, supports a lot of very good work
Speaker 1: in the criminal justice area. Similarly, with the US, we
Speaker 1: have an EU US Data Privacy framework, so if you
Speaker 1: pull one thread, it can have wide ranging consequences. That's
Speaker 1: why we need to be careful. But there may well
Speaker 1: be opportunities for simplification achieving the same goal but in
Speaker 1: a way that's less burdensome. Is a repetition, for example,
Speaker 1: that we can eliminate.
Speaker 2: Is that agreement with the United States that you mentioned,
Speaker 2: though MEPs have highlighted their concerns over the future of
Speaker 2: that after President Trump's inauguration and his decision to fire
Speaker 2: several individuals involved with overseeing transit antic data transfers. Are
Speaker 2: you worried about this? Does the privacy shield as the
Speaker 2: agreement is now need to be reviewed as a result.
Speaker 1: But we have received very strong reassurances directly from the
Speaker 1: US administration of their commitment to the EUUs Data Privacy Framework,
Speaker 1: including from the Attorney General Pambondi. When we had the
Speaker 1: EUUs Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting in Poland just
Speaker 1: a few weeks back, and further back in March, I
Speaker 1: would have met with Andrew Ferguson, the chair of the
Speaker 1: Federal Trade Commission, had a good discussion with him as well.
Speaker 1: In both meetings, I would have underlined the importance from
Speaker 1: the EU side of the US protecting all of the
Speaker 1: safeguards that underpin that EU US Data Privacy Framework, and
Speaker 1: they receive such assurances. Of course, we continue to monitor
Speaker 1: the situation.
Speaker 2: Is there a review of that tale underway?
Speaker 1: We have our own obligations as well that we have
Speaker 1: to continue to uphold. There isn't a formal review of
Speaker 1: that framework. It continues to operate. We monitor developments and
Speaker 1: we are also defending in the courts within the European
Speaker 1: Union a challenge to that agreement.
Speaker 2: Also, just staying with that issue of data transfers as well,
Speaker 2: the Irish Data Protection Commission recently had a fine for
Speaker 2: tech talk about data transfers to China. Does more attention
Speaker 2: need to be paid to the Chinese side of that
Speaker 2: equation as well and how EU personal data is being
Speaker 2: used in that country.
Speaker 1: So the national data protection authorities are completely independent and
Speaker 1: they implement the data protection law within their own country,
Speaker 1: but increasingly they do so in a coordinated manner through
Speaker 1: the network of data protection authorities around the EU. And
Speaker 1: I think that their conclusion and their finding in that
Speaker 1: case was very clear and set out exactly what the
Speaker 1: obligations are in relation to the transfer of data.
Speaker 2: All right, Michael McGrath, the EU's Commissioner for Democracy Justice
Speaker 2: through a long consumer protection thank you very much for
Speaker 2: joining us in our Brussels radio you doing this morning