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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: We're watching out of course for any more news on

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Speaker 2: the EUUs trade talks. But another big event is happening

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Speaker 2: here in Brussels today. The European Commission due to present

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Speaker 2: its plan for its next seven year budget for the EU,

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Speaker 2: which will be worth well over a trillion euros. It's

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Speaker 2: the start of a long political process that we'll have

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Speaker 2: far reaching consequences for the EU's future. Joining me now

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Speaker 2: in studio to discuss that and more as the EU's

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Speaker 2: Commissioner for Democracy, Justice, Rule of Law and Consumer Protection,

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Speaker 2: Michael mcgra Michael McGraw, Good morning, Good morning, Stephen Bloomberg Radio. Now,

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Speaker 2: you have a very large portfolio, as your job title

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Speaker 2: attests too, but I did want to just start with

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Speaker 2: that issue of trade, where of course waiting to see

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Speaker 2: what might happen on that front. Can a deal be

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Speaker 2: done by the first of August? The time is ticking

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Speaker 2: away now.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I believe it can. We have two weeks ahead.

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Speaker 1: I think of intense negotiations. It is in everybody's interests

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Speaker 1: that there is a deal, that we achieve trade peace,

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Speaker 1: and that we secure a stable turn of trade for

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Speaker 1: businesses on both sides of the Atlantic. This is the

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Speaker 1: most important trade and investment relationship in the world between

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Speaker 1: the EU and US. It is unquestionably mutually beneficial, supporting

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Speaker 1: millions of jobs in both the US and the EU.

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Speaker 1: These are challenging, complex negotiations. We were surprised and disappointed

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Speaker 1: to receive the letter last weekend flagging the possibility of

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Speaker 1: thirty percent tariffs because the negotiations had been progressing well overall,

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Speaker 1: and we remain focused as an EU on the substantive

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Speaker 1: discussions because it's a big prize if we can secure

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Speaker 1: an agreement and we can do what we do best

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Speaker 1: in the EU, which is export goods and services all

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Speaker 1: over the world, and we want to give our businesses

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Speaker 1: the certainty that they need so that they can make

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Speaker 1: decisions in camera waters Now.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned as well the YOUU bodget so the Commission

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Speaker 2: proposal due to be published later. I know you can't

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Speaker 2: go into the details of what's going to be in

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Speaker 2: that unfortunately, but as a former finance minister, I wonder

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Speaker 2: how you view this process and how difficult it's going

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Speaker 2: to be because there are a lot of pressures financially

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Speaker 2: on the EU repaying the debt being some of that

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Speaker 2: as well. Is this going to be a very difficult

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Speaker 2: budget negotiation?

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Speaker 1: It will, and it's certainly a lengthy one, as you

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Speaker 1: alluded to yourself, because the current multi annual financial framework

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Speaker 1: runs to the end of twenty twenty seven, and in

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Speaker 1: the EU you have a lot of stakeholders. You have

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Speaker 1: the twenty seven member states, you have the European Parliament.

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Speaker 1: The Commission will make the proposal, and it is being

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Speaker 1: framed and challenging circumstances with the capital repayments on the

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Speaker 1: COVID loans next generation EU beginning to be repaid from

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight, so that does place additional pressure that

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Speaker 1: could be twenty to twenty five billion euro every year.

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Speaker 1: So that's the first call on the budget as such,

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Speaker 1: and we have to consider what our appropriate new own resources.

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Speaker 1: Where the EU will seek to raise additional revenue, we

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Speaker 1: have to have an understanding of how much the member

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Speaker 1: states are also willing to pay in and also then

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Speaker 1: decide on the level of prioritization across a whole range

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Speaker 1: of different spending programs. Ultimately, the adoption of a multi

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Speaker 1: annual EU budget is subject to unanimity among the member states.

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Speaker 1: So we need every single one eventually to sign off

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Speaker 1: and approve it, and then it's subject to the consent

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Speaker 1: of the European Parliament. They face a yes or no

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Speaker 1: question and at the very end of the process, so yes,

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Speaker 1: I think two years of tough negotiations ahead. Today is

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Speaker 1: a significant day though, where the Commission agrees. Hopefully later

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Speaker 1: on this morning, I'll be going to the College meeting

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Speaker 1: directly after this interview, and I hope that we will

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Speaker 1: be in a position to agree the draft budget that

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Speaker 1: the Commission can propose.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now you have previously spoken about using the EU's

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Speaker 2: budget as a way to improve rule of law issues

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Speaker 2: in the EU, which is a key part of your

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Speaker 2: own portfolio. What would that like? Is this cash for reforms?

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Speaker 1: So at the moment we do have rule of law

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Speaker 1: conditionality built into the budgets. To be fair, the last Commission,

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Speaker 1: the Member States and the Parliament all work together to

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Speaker 1: build a pretty strong toolbox in the area of rule

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Speaker 1: of law. But I think we have to learn from

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Speaker 1: the lessons of recent years we have worked that remains

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Speaker 1: to be done, as you will have seen in the

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Speaker 1: rule of law reports to be published last week for

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Speaker 1: every single country of the EU. There are challenges, there

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Speaker 1: are outstanding issues. So we have been examining and considering

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Speaker 1: what is the best rule of law architecture within the

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Speaker 1: next MFF, and I think you will see changes. It's

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Speaker 1: no secret that we are moving towards national and regional

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Speaker 1: partnership plans, so we do intend to build in by

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Speaker 1: design links to reforms as part of those plans, and

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Speaker 1: that will include the funds.

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Speaker 2: Hasn't really worked. I mean there's been billions frozen, for example,

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Speaker 2: for hunger for many months now and there's no progress,

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Speaker 2: as your report allated to in addressing some of the

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Speaker 2: concerns the EU has. I mean, how much stricter do

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Speaker 2: the rules need to be?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think we need tools that are more agile

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Speaker 1: and flexible so that we can respond more quickly, and

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Speaker 1: also so that member states are absolutely clear what the

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Speaker 1: expectations in relation to rule of law are and I

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Speaker 1: think they really should have no excuses on that front.

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Speaker 1: EU law takes primacy. We have our Charter of Fundamental Rights,

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Speaker 1: so the requirements are clear. But we are now going

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Speaker 1: to build in by design into the new MFF a

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Speaker 1: set of architecture that I think will give us a

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Speaker 1: very good prospect of achieving better compliance with rule of law,

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Speaker 1: which isn't an optional extra It's a core obligation of

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Speaker 1: EU membership. And we have a set of tools currently

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Speaker 1: that I think can be refined, can be improved, and

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Speaker 1: can make a positive difference.

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Speaker 2: Later today, you're going to be speaking to businesses about

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Speaker 2: the ease Data Protection rules the GDPR. You've already come

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Speaker 2: up with some proposals that will ease some of the

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Speaker 2: burden of those rules for small businesses. What sort of

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Speaker 2: further changes could businesses expect on that more simplification.

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Speaker 1: We are looking at this through the lens of simplification.

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Speaker 1: I really want to hear from businesses, but other stakeholders

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Speaker 1: too about what their practical day to day experience of

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Speaker 1: GDPR is. GDPR is a global standard set by the EU.

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Speaker 1: It is also treaty based, and we have an extensive

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Speaker 1: amount of case law within the European Union from the

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Speaker 1: Court of Justice. So for me, the question is, can

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Speaker 1: we achieve the same very high standard of protection of

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Speaker 1: personal data but in a way that is less burdensome,

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Speaker 1: or in a way that can be simplified for those

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Speaker 1: who carry the obligation. And I want to hear directly

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Speaker 1: from all of the stakeholders about their experience. No doubt

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Speaker 1: they will have many ideas. We do need to be

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Speaker 1: careful because the protection of personal data is in our

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Speaker 1: Charter of Fundamental Rights. It is a key pillar of

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Speaker 1: the legal a key within the European Union. That will

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Speaker 1: remain the case. But can we do it in a

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Speaker 1: way that eases the burden and companies and others. That's

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Speaker 1: the question that we'll be seeking to answer. And today

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Speaker 1: is an important milestone because we'll have what we call

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Speaker 1: an implementation dialogue and we will then reflect on what

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Speaker 1: we have heard and consider whether we can frame proposals

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Speaker 1: in that regard.

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Speaker 2: Is there a risk that by making changes to GDPR

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Speaker 2: that you're seen as perhaps following a lead that's coming

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Speaker 2: from the US in terms of weakening protections in many

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Speaker 2: areas as well? Is that a concern that when you're

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Speaker 2: making changes that it's not seen as being following a

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Speaker 2: lead that's been taken by the US in this area.

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Speaker 1: We don't intend to weaken protections. I can be crystal

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Speaker 1: clear on that, because it is a core right of

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Speaker 1: EU citizens and we have to defend. Didn't stand over

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Speaker 1: that and It's also the case that the EUS GDPR

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Speaker 1: is the basis of a lot of international agreements and

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Speaker 1: adequacy decisions. So with the United Kingdom, for example, we

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Speaker 1: have a set of adequacy decisions which means that we

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Speaker 1: recognize the standard set in each other's systems and that

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Speaker 1: allows for data flows, and that set of data flows

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Speaker 1: then underpinned trade, supports a lot of very good work

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Speaker 1: in the criminal justice area. Similarly, with the US, we

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Speaker 1: have an EU US Data Privacy framework, so if you

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Speaker 1: pull one thread, it can have wide ranging consequences. That's

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Speaker 1: why we need to be careful. But there may well

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Speaker 1: be opportunities for simplification achieving the same goal but in

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Speaker 1: a way that's less burdensome. Is a repetition, for example,

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Speaker 1: that we can eliminate.

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Speaker 2: Is that agreement with the United States that you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: though MEPs have highlighted their concerns over the future of

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Speaker 2: that after President Trump's inauguration and his decision to fire

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Speaker 2: several individuals involved with overseeing transit antic data transfers. Are

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Speaker 2: you worried about this? Does the privacy shield as the

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Speaker 2: agreement is now need to be reviewed as a result.

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Speaker 1: But we have received very strong reassurances directly from the

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Speaker 1: US administration of their commitment to the EUUs Data Privacy Framework,

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Speaker 1: including from the Attorney General Pambondi. When we had the

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Speaker 1: EUUs Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting in Poland just

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Speaker 1: a few weeks back, and further back in March, I

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Speaker 1: would have met with Andrew Ferguson, the chair of the

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Speaker 1: Federal Trade Commission, had a good discussion with him as well.

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Speaker 1: In both meetings, I would have underlined the importance from

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Speaker 1: the EU side of the US protecting all of the

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Speaker 1: safeguards that underpin that EU US Data Privacy Framework, and

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Speaker 1: they receive such assurances. Of course, we continue to monitor

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Speaker 1: the situation.

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Speaker 2: Is there a review of that tale underway?

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Speaker 1: We have our own obligations as well that we have

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Speaker 1: to continue to uphold. There isn't a formal review of

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Speaker 1: that framework. It continues to operate. We monitor developments and

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Speaker 1: we are also defending in the courts within the European

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Speaker 1: Union a challenge to that agreement.

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Speaker 2: Also, just staying with that issue of data transfers as well,

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Speaker 2: the Irish Data Protection Commission recently had a fine for

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Speaker 2: tech talk about data transfers to China. Does more attention

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Speaker 2: need to be paid to the Chinese side of that

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Speaker 2: equation as well and how EU personal data is being

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Speaker 2: used in that country.

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Speaker 1: So the national data protection authorities are completely independent and

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Speaker 1: they implement the data protection law within their own country,

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Speaker 1: but increasingly they do so in a coordinated manner through

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Speaker 1: the network of data protection authorities around the EU. And

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Speaker 1: I think that their conclusion and their finding in that

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Speaker 1: case was very clear and set out exactly what the

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Speaker 1: obligations are in relation to the transfer of data.

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Speaker 2: All right, Michael McGrath, the EU's Commissioner for Democracy Justice

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Speaker 2: through a long consumer protection thank you very much for

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Speaker 2: joining us in our Brussels radio you doing this morning