WEBVTT - Understanding Copyrights in Photography & Videography

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<v Speaker 1>Earners.

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<v Speaker 2>What's up.

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<v Speaker 3>You ever walk into a small business and everything just

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<v Speaker 3>works like The checkout is fast, the receipts are digital,

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<v Speaker 3>can keep pushing your vision forward. This episode is brought

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<v Speaker 3>to you by P and C Bank, a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>people think podcasts about work are boring, and sure they

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<v Speaker 3>Bank Brilliantly Boring since eighteen sixty five. Brilliantly Boring since

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I'd tell a lot of photographers, just

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<v Speaker 1>look out for that word work for hire. Work for

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<v Speaker 1>hire means literally you don't own anything that you took.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you sign any contract and say work for

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<v Speaker 1>hiring you're a photographer that they own that photo. They

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<v Speaker 1>can do whatever they want with it, t shirts, product,

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<v Speaker 1>sell it, flip it, whatever they want to do with it.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't own it anymore. So you look out for

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<v Speaker 1>those terms. But then you when you went into contracts.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of the Nike and Nadidas unless it's something like major,

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<v Speaker 1>they don't really need it longer than like a year

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<v Speaker 1>or two, and they'll buy like global rights to use

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<v Speaker 1>it what they call above the line or below the

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<v Speaker 1>line above the line, meaning they can use it like

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<v Speaker 1>for anything in terms of like on a product or

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<v Speaker 1>on a billboard or a lot of stuff. Then some

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<v Speaker 1>of the below the liwn might be social media or

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<v Speaker 1>Instagram things like. It may have different tiers to what

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<v Speaker 1>they can use it for, but that's where the money

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<v Speaker 1>is at, because that's when you own your content. Then

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<v Speaker 1>you can start to charge for like licensing and rights

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<v Speaker 1>and things of that nature.

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<v Speaker 2>So been a can right well cam. But then speaking

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<v Speaker 2>of Nike, is the iconic situation with Jordan's. Remember this

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<v Speaker 2>situation years ago with the photo of him like when

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<v Speaker 2>you think his rookie season, and the photographer sued Nike.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like a twenty year lawsuit and I think

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<v Speaker 2>he actually ended up losing, but it was a very

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<v Speaker 2>public situation where he the iconic. The thing the Jordan's

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<v Speaker 2>actually that I'm thinking about as the jumpman, the Jumpman symbol.

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<v Speaker 2>The photographer that took the photo of the Jumpman symbol

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to sue Nike because he was saying that

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<v Speaker 2>it was his intellectual.

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<v Speaker 1>Property that made them choose the logo exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And like I said, I don't think that he actually

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<v Speaker 2>won that lawsuit, but it was like a twenty year,

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<v Speaker 2>extensive fight, eight millions of dollars and da da da.

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<v Speaker 2>But here's my thing. I respect the photographer, but if

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<v Speaker 2>I'm paying somebody take a photo, then I don't. I

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<v Speaker 2>just don't understand. Why is it not my photo? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>That's fair. I'm not saying that it's right, it's just

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<v Speaker 1>the way the laws are written that if you don't

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<v Speaker 1>make me sign a paperwork to grant you those rights,

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<v Speaker 1>just the way the laws are.

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<v Speaker 2>So technically, anybody that takes a photo. If you take

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<v Speaker 2>a photo of me, right, and I use that photo

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<v Speaker 2>for set album cover, and that album sells ten million records, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you come back five years later and say, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I want twenty percent of these record sales. You can't

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<v Speaker 2>do that, though, But what can you do? You can't

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<v Speaker 2>do that per se. So in a situation like that,

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<v Speaker 2>if I take a photo of.

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<v Speaker 1>Either one of you all and we didn't do no paperwork,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you exploited the photo and work, I could

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<v Speaker 1>be subject to certain rights. Right, So the first thing

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<v Speaker 1>that's gonna happen. My best friend's a lawyer, so he

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<v Speaker 1>done already gain me his game because I thought the

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<v Speaker 1>same way, like a million dollars, somebody play with me. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the first thing that's the first thing that happens is

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<v Speaker 1>really like that. They're going to say, what are your

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<v Speaker 1>true damages? Right? So, like, how did this did you

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<v Speaker 1>doing that impact my ability to monetize that photograph? So

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<v Speaker 1>then they're gonna go into my records and say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>right now, if you take a dope photo, how much

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<v Speaker 1>money do you make off that photo? So if I

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<v Speaker 1>have no proof of like every time I take a photo,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm making a million dollars. If I don't have that,

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<v Speaker 1>if it's like, well, you've never sold your work and art,

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<v Speaker 1>you've never put out an album cover yourself that went

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<v Speaker 1>and made money off of, then they'll go to the

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<v Speaker 1>precedent of what you have and then they'll say, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>you might be old standard rights, what photo album cover

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars fifty hundred whatever, They're gonna go down to

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<v Speaker 1>what my damages are. And now I can prove that

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<v Speaker 1>by you doing that, you stop my ability and I

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<v Speaker 1>had a clean ability to make money off that image,

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<v Speaker 1>and you exploited that and stole that from me. I

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<v Speaker 1>would have to kind of prove how that impacted me

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of what my numbers would be. But there's

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<v Speaker 1>nobody in the history, as far as I know, a

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<v Speaker 1>music industry that's ever gotten percentage of an album sell

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<v Speaker 1>for an album cover. And then I got to prove

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<v Speaker 1>that those sales were are all based off of my photo,

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<v Speaker 1>not that you're a dope rapper and you did thirty

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<v Speaker 1>other things.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's use a better example. Let's use a photo that's

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<v Speaker 2>put on merch. That happens a lot. You see iconic

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<v Speaker 2>photos of like Supreme with yep dip set right, or

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<v Speaker 2>you see Mike Tyson, somebody that's used a lot in

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<v Speaker 2>photos for merch, did Biggie Yep did the Biggie image.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a lot on photos. So a lot of a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of merch has been sold with for iconic

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<v Speaker 2>photos that were photo shoots that got turned into actual merch.

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<v Speaker 2>How does that work?

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<v Speaker 1>So you you have a better chance of winning that

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<v Speaker 1>one because the person bought that photo based off the

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<v Speaker 1>visual I mean, bought that T shirt or merch based

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<v Speaker 1>off the visual of what's on it. So it's harder

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<v Speaker 1>for a brand or somebody to say they didn't buy

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<v Speaker 1>it because of this photo. It's like this on the

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<v Speaker 1>damn you know what I mean, it's there. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>like music where I bought it to hear the song.

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<v Speaker 1>I bought it for that. So you have a better

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<v Speaker 1>chance of winning those. So like people have sue, like

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<v Speaker 1>Urban Outfitters and I want to say, H and M.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone have gotten sued off for that. I know it's

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<v Speaker 1>a big TUPAC case where it's on his photos in

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<v Speaker 1>the Urban Outfitters shirt and they sued and he won

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of thousands of dollars. Photographer photographer did.

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<v Speaker 4>The photographer who took Cam's iconic pink f pink cell

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<v Speaker 4>phone he put that on a T shirt. Yeah, the

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<v Speaker 4>dude who actually took the picture sued yep, and he won.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah he will win.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he had to. So Cam actually well I don't

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<v Speaker 4>know if he's paid it yet, but he deal was

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<v Speaker 4>actually a judgment where he has to pay the photographer

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<v Speaker 4>using a picture of himself. That's crazy, which is like

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<v Speaker 4>when you think about it's like.

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<v Speaker 1>It's wild, but it's an art form. See that's the

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<v Speaker 1>part that people have to respect. It's like if I

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<v Speaker 1>painted you or if I did like I literally had

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<v Speaker 1>to do something to make that image. It is a

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<v Speaker 1>true I think it's a true collaboration. In my opinion,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it should be fifty to fifty my opinion,

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<v Speaker 1>that's how I think it should work, because that photo

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<v Speaker 1>of cam is nothing. If that was Joe Blow on

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<v Speaker 1>the street in the same outfit with the same phone

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<v Speaker 1>to his ear, cam Ron made that photo what it is.

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<v Speaker 1>So I definitely think that there has to be some

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<v Speaker 1>type of synergy between a respect between both sides. But

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<v Speaker 1>it has to be both sides because some artists take

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<v Speaker 1>advantage of it on this side and they take a

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<v Speaker 1>photo and they just do whatever they want with it,

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<v Speaker 1>don't even talk to you about it. It's like it's got

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<v Speaker 1>to go both ways. I know Jonathan Manon was in

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<v Speaker 1>a big suit against jay Z over that, and they

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<v Speaker 1>had a really big lawsuit where jay was suing Jonathan

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<v Speaker 1>because he kept selling his artwork, like selling photos of

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<v Speaker 1>jay Z for tens thousands of dollars. But Jonathan's like,

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<v Speaker 1>I own it to who own it? I want to say.

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<v Speaker 1>They settled out of court. I'm not sure who won

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<v Speaker 1>or what they what the resolution, But you're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Mayon, who's whole career he shot every single jay

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<v Speaker 1>Z album. Girl, Like their connection is crazy. To ever

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<v Speaker 1>see them have to go to litigation just proves that

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<v Speaker 1>there's something wrong with the waiter the laws set up

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<v Speaker 1>honestly for both parties, like something needs to be done

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<v Speaker 1>with it. Butareness to like the subject matter subjects that's

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<v Speaker 1>being shot, you don't own it until you it works.

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<v Speaker 2>So what's this thing I've been seeing on social media

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<v Speaker 2>about people that shoot videos that like, let's say like

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<v Speaker 2>this video that we're shooting out right, we don't own

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<v Speaker 2>the video. I've seen like this thing like similar to that, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't own it. That guy that turned that camera owns it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's that about.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the same concept.

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<v Speaker 2>Explain that it's the same.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's like I pressed, I left the cameras on,

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<v Speaker 4>I turned it on.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't do that.

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<v Speaker 1>To be like that like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so explain that because for content creators to

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<v Speaker 2>understan nobody ever thinks about that, right, Like you're shooting

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast, you're shooting an episode, you're shooting even a

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<v Speaker 2>rap video, right, and you know you got a videographer,

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<v Speaker 2>You're gonna pay the videographer. So I'm paying you for

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<v Speaker 2>your services. You set the camera up, but I'm the

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<v Speaker 2>one that's actual doing it. It's the work.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep. It's the same way with photography. Whoever is behind

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<v Speaker 1>that camera that pushed the button in that composition the

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<v Speaker 1>photo and created the layout and the set, that person

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<v Speaker 1>technically owns it. Now, I do think it gets a

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<v Speaker 1>little tricky. I'm not a lawyer by any means, but

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<v Speaker 1>I do think it gets a little tricky if you

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<v Speaker 1>guys own the camera that they're using. So these cameras

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<v Speaker 1>come with copyright information built into the camera. So when

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<v Speaker 1>I buy my camera, the first thing I do out

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<v Speaker 1>of my camera is I set my copyright information within

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<v Speaker 1>the camera that automatically is imprinted on anything captured with

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<v Speaker 1>this camera. You do that, it's setting for your camera.

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<v Speaker 1>You going there and you just put your name copyright this.

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<v Speaker 1>So that is one way. So now if it's y'all's

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<v Speaker 1>cameras and I just hand you my cameras to take

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<v Speaker 1>a photo of me, it gets it can get kind

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<v Speaker 1>of tricky to say that. Now I gotta say you

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<v Speaker 1>did that it's because I bought it. Now, if I'm

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<v Speaker 1>bringing my own camera, my own lighting, my own to

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<v Speaker 1>y'all's thing and I shoot it, and if that payment

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<v Speaker 1>and spell out that this is a work for hire

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<v Speaker 1>or this is in exchange for that, I technically could

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<v Speaker 1>say I own it. Now, will I win in long like?

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<v Speaker 1>Because some things are still gonna be about like what

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Like did you know that or were you

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<v Speaker 1>whether you up front that you owned it, and did

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<v Speaker 1>you do certain things on your end to ensure that

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<v Speaker 1>there's clarity there? Because if I go along with the

0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:23.839
<v Speaker 1>idea of letting you all do what y'all want to

0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.280
<v Speaker 1>do with it, I don't believe I can just like

0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.720
<v Speaker 1>undercut you later like, oh, they don't know that they

0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't sign a paper where I'm gonna wait TOI this

0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.240
<v Speaker 1>blow up, Like I don't think you can do that

0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.480
<v Speaker 1>in good faith and still be doing business and then

0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:38.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna catch them ten years later. I don't. I

0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:40.520
<v Speaker 1>don't think you can do that, And I think you're

0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.760
<v Speaker 1>gonna have a harder time winning that one if in

0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.000
<v Speaker 1>good faith you let them, you let them to believe

0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.160
<v Speaker 1>they owned it and could do whatever they want with it.

0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.480
<v Speaker 1>But it's it's a real thing, and it's it's becoming

0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.920
<v Speaker 1>more real now with more content being created and these

0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.640
<v Speaker 1>these things coming out, like you gotta know what it is.

0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:03.400
<v Speaker 5>An illegal alien from charged with raping a child in Massachusetts.

0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.080
<v Speaker 5>An MS thirteen gang member from Al Salvador accused of

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<v Speaker 5>murdering a Texas man of Venezuelan charged with filming and

0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.120
<v Speaker 5>selling child pornography in Michigan. These are just some of

0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.880
<v Speaker 5>the heinous migrant criminals caught because of President Donald J.

0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.720
<v Speaker 5>Trump's leadership. I'm Christy Noman, the United States Secretary of

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<v Speaker 5>Homeland Security. Under President Trump, attempted illegal border crossings are

0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.000
<v Speaker 5>at the lowest levels ever recorded, and over one hundred

0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.920
<v Speaker 5>thousand illegal aliens have been arrested. If you are here illegally,

0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.720
<v Speaker 5>your next you will be fined nearly one thousand dollars

0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.880
<v Speaker 5>a day, imprisoned, and deported. You will never return. But

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.480
<v Speaker 5>if you register using our CBP home app and leave now,

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 5>you could be allowed to return legally. Do what's right.

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:55.520
<v Speaker 5>Leave now. Under President Trump, America's laws, border and families

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:56.560
<v Speaker 5>will be protected.

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<v Speaker 4>Sponsored by the United States Department of Homeland Security,