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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three thirty five of the

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Speaker 1: Theory for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

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Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors introducing our new

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Holiday gift collection. Our new ensemble

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Speaker 1: of drinkwaar totes, journals and sweaters were made to remind

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Speaker 1: you of the importance of centering your mental health. Purchase

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Speaker 1: your TVG gifts at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash shop.

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Speaker 1: Happy Holidays, y'all, remember to take good care and give

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Speaker 1: good gifts. While Andy Williams famously proclaimed this to be

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Speaker 1: the most wonderful time of the year. We know that

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Speaker 1: the holiday season can be more than a little stressful

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Speaker 1: for many of us, whether we're navigating changing traditions, grieving

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Speaker 1: the loss of a family member, are considering opting out

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Speaker 1: of the holidays entirely. The question becomes how to communicate

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Speaker 1: these feelings to our family members, friends, and others we

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Speaker 1: may usually celebrate this time with. Joining me today to

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Speaker 1: help sort out these holiday induce stressors is Returning Guests

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Speaker 1: Nedra Glover to WAB. Nedra is a licensed therapist, sought

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Speaker 1: after relationship expert, and the author of New York Times

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Speaker 1: bestsellers Set Boundaries, Find Peace, and Drama Free. Nedra has

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Speaker 1: appeared as an expert on Red Table Talk, The Breakfast Club,

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Speaker 1: Good Morning America, and The CBS Morning Show, just to

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Speaker 1: name a few. In our conversation today, Nedra and I

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Speaker 1: discuss ways you might share a grievance with a family

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Speaker 1: member without severing the relationship, navigating holiday induced grief, and

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Speaker 1: communicating a change in tradition or a decision to stay

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Speaker 1: home for the holidays. If something resonates with you while

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Speaker 1: enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media

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Speaker 1: using the hashtag TBG in session or join us over

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Speaker 1: in the sister circle to talk more about the episode.

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Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls

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Speaker 1: dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us again today, Deadre.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to be back.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this is your third time with us here in

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Speaker 1: the chair. The last time you visited with us was

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. We are talking all about maintaining

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Speaker 1: digital boundaries. So update us on what has changed, what

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Speaker 1: has happened since we last chatted.

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Speaker 2: While I have a newer book, Drama Free, where I

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Speaker 2: talk about family relationships and how we can make them healthier,

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Speaker 2: how we can be healthier in them because most of

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Speaker 2: the time it is us making the changes, not those

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Speaker 2: family members. So that is my newest book, Drama Free.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, So we are embarking upon the holiday season

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Speaker 1: and we know that this is one time of the

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Speaker 1: year where those boundaries can be really, really helpful. So

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Speaker 1: can you walk us through some of the difficult feelings

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Speaker 1: and situations that you've heard from clients, are just people

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Speaker 1: in your community that are difficult to really manage during

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Speaker 1: the holidays.

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Speaker 2: One of the big ones is for folks who have siblings.

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Speaker 2: Thanks seeing those childhood dynamics replay as an adult. So

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Speaker 2: if your brother is a favorite, or if no one

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Speaker 2: ever listens to you, or if they make fun of you,

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Speaker 2: like during the holidays, that stuff comes up and we

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Speaker 2: have to learn how to shift those dynamics as adults,

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Speaker 2: and that work. Again, it's on us. It's having those conversations,

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Speaker 2: hopefully before Thanksgiving dinner, hopefully before we see folks on Christmas.

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Speaker 2: We start to do that work as soon as possible.

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Speaker 2: Often we wait to the last minute. So the big

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Speaker 2: thing that I see as the sibling dynamics. The other

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Speaker 2: issues we might see is figuring out what to do

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Speaker 2: for the holidays. We come from strong traditions sometimes where

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Speaker 2: every year we go to our mom's house, but this year,

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Speaker 2: maybe we want to do a friends giving, or maybe

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Speaker 2: we want to go on vacation with our girls or

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Speaker 2: with our boo, and so this is the time to

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Speaker 2: start talking about that as well. Sometimes we'll wait to

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Speaker 2: the last it will be passive and we'll say, oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing, and we have an

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Speaker 2: exact idea of what we're doing or what we don't

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Speaker 2: want to do. Another big thing staying with family. We

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Speaker 2: don't have to. We do not have to stay with

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Speaker 2: our families. We do not have to sleep in our

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Speaker 2: sixteen year old bed, We do not have to share

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Speaker 2: bedrooms with our cousins or sleep on anybody's couch. If

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Speaker 2: you feel more comfortable staying in a hotel, or staying

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Speaker 2: out a friend's house, or even just going in for

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Speaker 2: dinner and leaving, you can do any of those things.

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Speaker 2: You know, during the holidays is when my practice picks up.

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Speaker 2: I've had calls on Christmas Eve and worked the day

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Speaker 2: before Thanksgiving because people have waited until the last minute,

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Speaker 2: and the crisis that they had last year is going

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Speaker 2: to be the crisis that they have again this year

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Speaker 2: if they don't work through those issues.

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Speaker 1: So, Ninda, what do you think it is about the

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Speaker 1: holiday season that often is so stressful for people.

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Speaker 2: Families have expectations, and we have expectations. We want things

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Speaker 2: to go often the way that they've always gone, whether

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Speaker 2: that's good or bad. People don't want to change anything.

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, if I tell them I don't want

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Speaker 2: to do this thing, then so we're forecasting. If I

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Speaker 2: say I don't want to do this, everybody's going to

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Speaker 2: be upset. If I don't cook everything for this feast,

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Speaker 2: Everyone's going to be mad at me. There's such a

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Speaker 2: variety of ways we can celebrate the holidays. We can

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Speaker 2: go out to eat, we can stay at home, we

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Speaker 2: can potlook it, we can do something by ourselves. We

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Speaker 2: could househop. We have to be willing to explore a

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Speaker 2: different thing when the past thing has not worked. And

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Speaker 2: that's the hardest thing for us because we are creatures

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Speaker 2: of habit and we don't want to plan for this.

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Speaker 2: So it's like Thanksgiving, same time every year sneaks up

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Speaker 2: on us. Christmas is like, oh my gosh, December twenty fifth.

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Speaker 2: Again we are shot that we didn't do anything until

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Speaker 2: maybe a week before. But we have to plan for

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Speaker 2: these things, especially when we know that they are a problem.

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Speaker 1: M So it sounds like you're advocating a lot for

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Speaker 1: prep work as you get into the holidays. What kinds

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Speaker 1: of questions can people be asking to get in touch

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Speaker 1: with some of these values that it sounds like you're

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Speaker 1: talking about.

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Speaker 2: What do I enjoy doing for the holiday? What are

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Speaker 2: some traditions that are new and different from me, that

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Speaker 2: I might want to incorporate with others? What sort of

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Speaker 2: things have worked, what sort of things have not worked?

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Speaker 2: Who do I want to spend the holidays with?

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Speaker 1: And would you encourage people to like actually write that

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Speaker 1: down or is this just kind of like mental prep

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Speaker 1: work that they're doing. Well.

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Speaker 2: I love writing everything down, But you know, some of

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Speaker 2: us are not journalers, right, But I think those are

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Speaker 2: wonderful questions to write down and to answer, or to list,

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Speaker 2: or to do an audio note, or even to talk

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Speaker 2: to a friend about. Sometimes we do really good with

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Speaker 2: account of ability. And maybe you have a friend where

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Speaker 2: you could say what do you'd like to do on

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Speaker 2: the holidays? And now it's a conversation with someone else,

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Speaker 2: and they will give you some ideas that you may

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Speaker 2: not have considered but you might want to practice. So

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Speaker 2: even sharing that question with someone else and creating some

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Speaker 2: community around it could be really helpful. But I would

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Speaker 2: love for us to sit with ourselves and just journal

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Speaker 2: about what hasn't hasn't worked, what practices you want to incorporate.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we may see something on TV and be like,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, that's a wonderful idea to have a

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Speaker 2: Thanksgiving treat where everybody writes down what they're thankful for

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Speaker 2: that might be a new thing you want to incorporate.

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Speaker 2: So there has to be some exploration around what this

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Speaker 2: holiday could look like.

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Speaker 1: So you already mentioned, Naer that sometimes we have decided

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Speaker 1: we want to opt out completely of going to the

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Speaker 1: family holidays, or maybe we want to do something different

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Speaker 1: like travel. What would you say to people for how

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Speaker 1: they broached this conversation with family members to let them

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Speaker 1: know they want to opt out that bread stands at all.

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Speaker 2: Start early, Start early. If you do something this holiday

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Speaker 2: season that does not work, start discussing it in January,

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Speaker 2: start discussing it in February. So people aren't planning on

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Speaker 2: you being there because when you wait to November first,

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Speaker 2: they already have a mental seat at the table for you.

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Speaker 2: So if you have that conversation earlier, they've already worked

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Speaker 2: you out of there, like, oh, you're not in the plan,

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Speaker 2: you're going to Jamaica, You're spending the time at home.

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Speaker 2: So start having those conversations earlier. The other thing is

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Speaker 2: we have to allow people to be disappointed, sad, and upset.

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Speaker 2: I know that's really hard. We want everybody to be

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Speaker 2: happy with us at all times, and we want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that they're feeling good, but it's just not possible.

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Speaker 2: It's not possible for both of us to get our

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Speaker 2: way in these interactions, and so you may have to

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Speaker 2: take the unco comfortable but necessary step and change what

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Speaker 2: you don't want to do anymore. And I know that's tough.

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Speaker 2: I live, you know, in a different city from where

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Speaker 2: I grew up, and I have not been back for holidays,

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Speaker 2: not the cold holidays, because I'm from a cold place.

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Speaker 2: So I appreciate not having to travel houses with my

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Speaker 2: snow boots on, right and having to be bundled up

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Speaker 2: or caught in a snowstorm. And so having those conversations around,

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Speaker 2: I invite you to come to me. I invite you

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Speaker 2: to explore something that's a little bit different. As adults,

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Speaker 2: we get to create these new things in our lives,

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Speaker 2: and I know that that sometimes means breaking tradition, but

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Speaker 2: if you think about it, our parents did it, our

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Speaker 2: grandparents did it, and now we have the opportunity to

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Speaker 2: create the type of holiday experience we want to have.

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Speaker 1: And I think even when that happens, people should still

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Speaker 1: be prepared that it will feel a little different the

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Speaker 1: first time. You do some things different, right, like it

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Speaker 1: could trigger grief that you are not anticipating related to

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Speaker 1: changing up traditions. What other things would you say people

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Speaker 1: need to be mindful of when they do change up

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Speaker 1: traditions for the first.

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Speaker 2: Time, that it may not go as planned. I just

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Speaker 2: finished watching What's That Almost Christmas? With Danny Glover, and

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Speaker 2: he's trying to recreate this sweet potato pie recipe from

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Speaker 2: his late wife. Right, and he creates that thing about

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Speaker 2: ten times before it is the exact recipe, and it's

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Speaker 2: after the holiday. Right. You have to embrace that it

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Speaker 2: might not go as planned, that things may not be perfect,

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Speaker 2: That you may try this new thing. You might say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to stay at a hotel and then feel

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Speaker 2: really lonely once you get there. So maybe you don't

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Speaker 2: continue to do that. Maybe there's a different thing you

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Speaker 2: can do when you stay with family. Maybe that's just

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Speaker 2: going for a walk and not staying in the house

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Speaker 2: the whole time, or being a person who says, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'll go to the grocery store to grab it. Maybe

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Speaker 2: there are other ways to do this thing. If it

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Speaker 2: doesn't work, you don't have to repeat it.

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Speaker 1: So, Dedra, I wonder if you could help us with

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Speaker 1: a little bit of language translation, because we know sometimes

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Speaker 1: we want to say things, but we want to also

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Speaker 1: maybe keep the relationship intact. So I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 1: a few examples, and I wonder if you could give

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Speaker 1: me some ways that we might say this. So the

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Speaker 1: first one is, I'm not coming over for the holidays

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Speaker 1: because you all give me a headache.

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Speaker 2: This year, I will spend the holiday at home.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So we don't even have to address the headache peace.

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Speaker 1: We can just say I'm just not coming over.

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Speaker 2: The headache part sounds like you're ready for a fight,

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Speaker 2: if I'm being honest, because now we're asking the person

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Speaker 2: to change who doesn't have an issue with themselves or

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Speaker 2: the situation. Now we're telling them you need to redo

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Speaker 2: your whole holiday to fit what is peaceful for me. Now,

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Speaker 2: it may be true that they are giving you a headache,

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Speaker 2: and you have the power to figure out what would

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Speaker 2: make your holiday better, and perhaps that is staying at home,

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Speaker 2: perhaps as deciding to do something else with other people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've heard people say like, oh, I hate

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Speaker 2: going to my family's house because they don't get dinner

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Speaker 2: ready until seven pm. Well you can go at five pm.

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Speaker 2: Or you can maybe hit a few other houses and

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Speaker 2: then go to your family's house. Or you could say, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do Thanksgiving breakfast and I'll be over

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Speaker 2: there for dinner. There are many ways to take the

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Speaker 2: power back in that situation without telling everyone else. You

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Speaker 2: need to start cooking earlier, right, that's not their process.

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Speaker 2: This is the time that they have things prepared every year.

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Speaker 2: So you have to figure out what can I do

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Speaker 2: in my situation?

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Speaker 1: Got it? Okay? What about I'm kind of buying expensive

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Speaker 1: and thoughtful gifts for people who don't do the same

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: This year, I will be on a spending budget and

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Speaker 2: you may not see as big or as many gifts

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Speaker 2: as you've seen from me in the past.

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Speaker 1: Okay, more from our conversation after the break. You kind

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Speaker 1: of answered this one, But I wonder if there's something

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Speaker 1: else you would say. So, I'd much rather spend the

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Speaker 1: holiday with my boo and their family than with you.

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Speaker 1: I love these.

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Speaker 2: These are given Jerry Springer. This is like fighter Aunt

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Speaker 2: Tea comments, Yeah, I would say this holiday season, I

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Speaker 2: will be spending the holiday with my partner. Again, we

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Speaker 2: don't have to pull people into it, because what are

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Speaker 2: we signing to them, you need to be a different

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Speaker 2: person for me to like you. You need to do

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Speaker 2: this different for me to want to spend the holiday

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Speaker 2: with you. Okay, let's say that they oblige. Right, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll be quiet this whole holiday. What if you still

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Speaker 2: don't want to spend the holiday there, Like the issue

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Speaker 2: hasn't been you still want to spend the holiday with

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Speaker 2: your booth. So sometimes even asking this other person to

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Speaker 2: change doesn't take away from the thing that you actually

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Speaker 2: want to do.

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Speaker 1: I love these So it sounds like in all of

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Speaker 1: these responses it really is about looking at where you

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Speaker 1: have power to make some changes and not depending on

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Speaker 1: the other person to do that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I don't think we're changing our parents, our siblings,

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Speaker 2: our aunties, uncles and cousins by telling them about themselves

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Speaker 2: and expecting them to have this therapeutic journey in twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours. That is a recipe for disappointment and failure

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Speaker 2: and probably some challenges in the relationship. A huge part

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Speaker 2: of existing in relationships sometimes is expecting people to be themselves.

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Speaker 2: Else you will be yourself on Thanksgiving, on Crispin, on Kwanza,

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Speaker 2: on everybody birthday. You gonna be yourself, and a part

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Speaker 2: of me being in relationship with you might be noticing

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Speaker 2: where I need to pull back and when I need

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Speaker 2: to speed ahead.

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Speaker 1: So we have some less Jerry Springer like scenarios that

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Speaker 1: our community submitted, but we just love to get your

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Speaker 1: insight on. So Eleanor is hosting the holidays at her

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Speaker 1: home for the first time this year. She's feeling anxious

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Speaker 1: about having so many people that are home at once.

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Speaker 1: She's worried that you'll make a mistake and people will

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Speaker 1: regret spending the holidays with her. She feels like she'll

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Speaker 1: have to always be on in order to make a

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Speaker 1: good impression. How can she prepare for this beforehand?

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Speaker 2: I wonder what is her idea of making a good impression?

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Speaker 2: Like is it Hallmark movie having the house decked out

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Speaker 2: smelling a certain way, or is the expectation having all

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Speaker 2: of your family together in your home. The expectations that

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Speaker 2: we set for ourselves can sometimes be really big and unreasonable,

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Speaker 2: and if one part of that dynamic falls apart, where

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Speaker 2: like the whole holiday was a disaster, and so we

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Speaker 2: have to be really reasonable. The point of the holidays

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Speaker 2: is to gather, is to gather and be in community.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes when we're hosting, we have elaborate plans. We

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Speaker 2: may overschedule. I've seen people do it where it's like,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have an itinerary and at this time, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna do this, and we're gonna go to the parade,

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Speaker 2: and then we're gonna sit down and play cards, and

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Speaker 2: then we're gonna sit down to eat. And if one

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Speaker 2: of those things are off schedule or if we need

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Speaker 2: to change anything, we're like, oh, the total holiday was trash.

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Speaker 2: That is hard to do with more than one person.

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Speaker 2: If you've ever been on a group trip, you know it.

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Speaker 2: The only person you can manage in a group of

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Speaker 2: people is yourself. You try to be on time, you

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Speaker 2: try to but getting three, four, eight people on the

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Speaker 2: same accord that can be challenging. And so some of

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Speaker 2: the hosting might be having more flexibility and what that

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Speaker 2: looks like, who can be on guard instead of you?

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Speaker 2: Are there other people to manage other things while you're

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Speaker 2: maybe cooking. Is there a person who can facilitate some

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Speaker 2: activity or play. Figuring out who your helpers can be

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Speaker 2: and not putting this all on you and your helpers

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Speaker 2: can be a child. Some of these kias can get

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Speaker 2: these grandparents really going sometimes. So it's not that it

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Speaker 2: has to be a person your age. You have to

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Speaker 2: get really creative with this and make sure you're not

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Speaker 2: putting all of the responsibility on you because it's in your.

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Speaker 1: House, all right. Here's the second one. Tiana always feels

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Speaker 1: anxiety going into the holidays because there are certain family

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Speaker 1: members that she knows she'll always have tension with. She

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Speaker 1: knows for sure that her aunt is gonna question why

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Speaker 1: her life isn't together yet, her parents will always be

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Speaker 1: fighting over something, her grandmother is gonna say something insensitive

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Speaker 1: about her Wheat. She attends every year, even though she

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Speaker 1: dreads it because she feels an obligation to and she

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Speaker 1: knows that her family members will call her selfish if

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Speaker 1: she doesn't. How can she endure this time of the

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Speaker 1: year that brings her lots of stress?

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Speaker 2: This one is really tough because I'm hearing a lot

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Speaker 2: of choosing chaos. I'm not hearing a lot of choosing

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Speaker 2: self as much as I am choosing chaos because this

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Speaker 2: is what everybody else wants. I am in an environment

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Speaker 2: where I'm not emotionally safe, where I'm not respected, but

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Speaker 2: I have to do it because it's what I've always done.

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Speaker 2: If you feel obligated to attend a family function, I

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Speaker 2: would say, choose your life of time. I've always attended

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Speaker 2: some and is you know, it's some people who show

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Speaker 2: up real late and they leave her a life. They're

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Speaker 2: gonna come get a plate, and then they're gonna be like,

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Speaker 2: all right, y'all, that's all they can manage, that's all

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Speaker 2: they can handle. It's gonna be some people who are

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Speaker 2: there the whole time. So maybe choose the length of

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Speaker 2: time you want to be around people. Maybe think about

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Speaker 2: some conversation starters with your aunt. Maybe think about some comebacks.

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Speaker 2: I think for our bullies, whether it's a bully and

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Speaker 2: our family or at school or wherever, we have to

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Speaker 2: think of some comebacks. And I'm not saying you know, roachcha,

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Speaker 2: aunt Tea, but I am thinking how old were you

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Speaker 2: when you got married, Auntie? You know, just some of

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Speaker 2: those things. To turn it back on the other person,

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Speaker 2: Why do you worry so much about my dating life?

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Speaker 2: How does these things impact you? Or have you even

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Speaker 2: said I don't want to talk about this. Sometimes with family,

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Speaker 2: we get into these patterns of conversation and we've never

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Speaker 2: told the other person I don't want to talk about this,

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Speaker 2: so they continue to ask because they don't even know

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Speaker 2: you're bothered with it. You can certainly say to someone

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Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about dating. Let's talk about

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Speaker 2: how to play dominoes properly, because I think I've been

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Speaker 2: cheating the whole time. I mean, you can come up

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Speaker 2: with any sort of scenario to talk about other than

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Speaker 2: your dating life, other than your weight, other than these things,

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Speaker 2: like you know, these are things I just don't want

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Speaker 2: to talk about.

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Speaker 1: All right. Here's our third one. Augusta lives in a

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Speaker 1: different state than her family and can't afford to fly

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Speaker 1: and see them for the holidays. She's feeling depressed because

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Speaker 1: she loves her family and really wants to see them.

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Speaker 1: She no longer wants to celebrate at all. If it's

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Speaker 1: not with them, What can she do.

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Speaker 2: Technology is a beautiful thing, and when we can't afford

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Speaker 2: to be close, we can certainly zoom, or we can

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Speaker 2: FaceTime with the people we love. And I've seen people

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Speaker 2: of a certain age demographic it's almost like FaceTime or nothing, right,

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Speaker 2: Like they don't even talk on the phone. Everything is video.

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Speaker 2: You can spend your entire day on FaceTime with your family,

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Speaker 2: just talking to different people. You can't be with them

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Speaker 2: just in the background as you're watching TV. Just moving

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Speaker 2: throughout your day with them, maybe not physically in your space,

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Speaker 2: but in your space via video. That is one way

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Speaker 2: to have them present with you, even while you're cooking.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you're cooking the same thing at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you say, hey, give me your recipe and I

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Speaker 2: will prepare it along with you. We have to get

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Speaker 2: really creative with connecting with people. I know on a

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Speaker 2: lot of video apps, you know, you can even sync

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Speaker 2: up when you watch something on Netflix or Amazon. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: let's have watch parties. So get really creative around what

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Speaker 2: that community looks like when you can't be with the

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Speaker 2: people you love that now. Because I don't go home

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Speaker 2: for the holidays, that's something that I often do there

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Speaker 2: for the family who is not here with me, who

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00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: have chosen not to travel or who can't travel. We FaceTime,

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Speaker 2: We talk throughout the day, we're sending videos. Those things

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Speaker 2: keep us connected even if we're not in the same space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really beautiful offering, and I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes people are hesitant to do something like that

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Speaker 1: because they feel like it'll make them sadder, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I know, if I'm not there in person, the videos

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Speaker 1: might hurt more. But I think my experience has been

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Speaker 1: that it is actually comforting, even if initially you feel

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Speaker 1: like a little bit more sad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have to work within the parameters that

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Speaker 2: we have, and so we can't exclude a holiday because

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Speaker 2: it's not the exact experience we want. We need to

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Speaker 2: figure out a way to have our holiday at different levels,

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Speaker 2: whether I am with people or without people. There are

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Speaker 2: some folks who don't have a lot of family connections,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a holiday experience.

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Speaker 2: So it might mean figuring out a way to have

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Speaker 2: a soul oh holiday, figuring out a way to have

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00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 2: a holiday experience with your community locally. Those are some

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00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 2: things that you may want to do as well. And

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Speaker 2: if you can't figure that out, volunteering on the holiday

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00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: can be a really helpful way to connect with other.

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Speaker 1: People more from our conversation after the break. So something

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Speaker 1: else that often makes the holiday season difficult is lost, right,

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Speaker 1: So when family members have passed, I think especially that

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Speaker 1: first holiday season after someone has passed is often very difficult.

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Speaker 1: What kinds of things would you encourage people to do

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Speaker 1: to celebrate and honor the family member who's no longer

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Speaker 1: with them?

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Speaker 2: While I have suggested things from having a seat at

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Speaker 2: the table for that person and just everyone going around

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Speaker 2: and saying something on to having your own Sarah Moon

435
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: a personal experience of today, I am reflecting on this

436
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: person in this way. But the biggest thing is let's

437
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: not ignore the grief, because if you're feeling it, everybody

438
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 2: else is too, and that's something that we should probably

439
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 2: talk about. Papa is not here anymore, and I'm feeling

440
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: that today that will invite other people to talk about

441
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: that person as well. You know, in many of our

442
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: families grandmothers, when the grandmother leaves the family, the structure

443
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: of the holiday shifts because I find that grandmothers really

444
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: brings families together. So when the matriarch departs, it can

445
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: really shift with the holiday. Looks at whose house will

446
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: it be at? It's a big old stirrup and we

447
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: have to adjust to Wow, now we have to figure

448
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 2: out something new to do for the holiday because what

449
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: we've done for fifteen years or twenty years, this person

450
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: is no longer here, So again, I think those early

451
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: conversations and that's not be surprised by Thanksgiving. I know

452
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: it's hard when you're grieving, but even thinking about this

453
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 2: year will be different. Nobody can make mama's dressing. But

454
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: what can we do to continue to get together even

455
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: though this will look a little bit different?

456
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: And we already talked a little bit about finances, and

457
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: you know, I think black women, a lot of us

458
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: have been socialized to kind of like make it happen

459
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: for our children, especially related to gifts and spending money

460
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: that we may not have. What kinds of things would

461
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: you say to people to really allow themselves more space

462
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: around this financial pressure and these expectations to gift give

463
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: during this season.

464
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: Pull a name. That's my favorite thing. Poll hello, pull

465
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: a name. You know what, when you have siblings and

466
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: all the siblings got kids and aunts and uncles and grabmighty,

467
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: pull a name. I think the easiest thing is to

468
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: buy for the people in your house and to pull

469
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: a name for everybody else. We're getting one gift outside

470
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 2: this house.

471
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: I think that that is so smart. But you know,

472
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: even in my own family Ndor, it feels like people

473
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: have been really resistant to this idea, and I can't

474
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: quite figure out why do you have any thoughts around

475
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: why playing a name is such a like, oh, we

476
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: don't want to do that.

477
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: Well, I will become your cousin and I will advocate

478
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: with you. We will be the pull a name cousins.

479
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: I am now a cousin and I'm gonna come with

480
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: you put me up on FaceTime because I am advocating

481
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: for putting You know, there is something really special about

482
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: buying each and every person a gift. It feels very thoughtful,

483
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: it feels very loving, but it strains our pockets. It's

484
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: a lot of mental energy sometimes with gift giving. I

485
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: think about this. This is the part that cracks me up.

486
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 2: With the nieces and nephews. I think this, So you

487
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: buy my key as something, then I buy your key

488
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 2: as something. So we just bought two and two? Why

489
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 2: did we do that? I could have just bought my

490
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 2: kid stuff. You could have just bought your kids stuff,

491
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: and then we could have just said Merry Christmas. Did

492
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: we really have to? I feel like it's an gift swap.

493
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 2: I get it, you want the thoughtfulness to be there,

494
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: But is there another way that we can celebrate people.

495
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 2: Can we be heavier on the birthday and maybe not

496
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: on Christmas because that's a concentrated time for buying gifts.

497
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: You're buying gifts for teachers, for maybe other people who've

498
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: helped you in life, and all your family members. Maybe

499
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: if we lessen the load on family, it can be

500
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: really hopeful to others. So think about that, maybe gifting

501
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: in another season such as birthdays or just because gifts,

502
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: or pulling a name, or simply saying well, not simply

503
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: because I know it's so hard, but saying to people.

504
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: The way my bank account is set up, this year,

505
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: I am red using the amount of gifts that I

506
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 2: typically give. I will only be buying for kids. I

507
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: will only be buying for people under the age of

508
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 2: twelve some sort of parameter. I will only be buying

509
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: gifts for my parents. I will not be buying gifts

510
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: this year for my siblings. So being clear about what

511
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: the boundaries around gift giving can look like in my family,

512
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: I like to have a gift limit for kids of

513
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: about fifty dollars. It can become a lot when you

514
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: have lots of nieces and nephews, So fifty dollars I

515
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: feel like I'm being generous. I've been thinking about this

516
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 2: and this is what seems affordable. Now. I'm heavier on

517
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: the birthday. I'm a heavy birthday person. And we have

518
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: to be really strategic. So there are are bank accounts

519
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: that we could start at any time of the year

520
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: to start saving for Christmas. But we have to be

521
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: very wise about not overspending because no one wants us

522
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: to be in debt. No one wants us to be

523
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 2: in debt. If we were to tell people, hey, I

524
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: bought you this bike, but now I'm paying triple the

525
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: amount for this bike because I couldn't afford it, I

526
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: don't think they would want that bike. No one wants

527
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: that for you, and I don't want it for you.

528
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: So we have to think about, yes, I want to give,

529
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: but in what way. One of the things I'm thinking

530
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: about giving this year, and I promise is not because

531
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: I'm being cheap. But here's what I'm giving. Seeds from

532
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 2: my garden. I have harvested some seeds from some of

533
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: my plants this summer, some of my flowers. I'm putting

534
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: them in little baggies and I am sending them to

535
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: some loved ones. Here you go. Here are my zenias,

536
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: Here are my prize green bell peppers. I will send

537
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: people packets of my favorite teas, just getting really creative.

538
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: It does save money, but I'm actually trying to be

539
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: really thoughtful. This is something that I really love and

540
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: that I have curated. Maybe for you, is n't it

541
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 2: in a blanket? Maybe for you it's bedazzling a phone case.

542
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. But is there a

543
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: gift that you can give that's a little bit cheaper

544
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: but also very thoughtful.

545
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: I love that because you started this conversation by saying

546
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of us have been socialized

547
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: to think that the only ways we can show care

548
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: is through like large financial purchases, right, But could we

549
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: up the thoughtfulness in other ways, something that is handmade,

550
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: or like a letter or something that it is maybe

551
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: even more thoughtful but not as financially expensive. Yeah. Yeah,

552
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: So you've given us such incredible information. Ndra is there

553
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: anything else that you want to share with the community

554
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: around navigating the holiday season? Things that might make it

555
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: a little easier for them.

556
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: Creating your own personal traditions is really important because you

557
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 2: can carry them from relationship to relationship, whether you are single,

558
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: whether you're with children, whether you are a partner in

559
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: your family, all over the place, and some of those

560
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: things might be having a favorite Christmas movie that you

561
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 2: watch on a particular day, Christmas songs, creating the Christmas

562
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 2: spirit in your home, certain things you do around Thanksgiving,

563
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: friends giving traditions curate what you want to have. Often

564
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: we're looking to everyone else like, oh my gosh, no

565
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: one planned my holiday for me, when in actuality, it

566
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: is up to us. It's up to us what sort

567
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: of experience do you want to have this holiday season?

568
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: Nothing in your life needs to change for this thing

569
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: to start happening for you.

570
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that, Nindra. So let us

571
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: know where we can stay connected with you. What is

572
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: your website as well as any social media handles and

573
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: where can we grab your book book?

574
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: Yes, Lurrel Books. Yes, my books are available everywhere books are,

575
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: so please buy them at independent bookstores if you have

576
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: the means to do so. Also, my website is nadra

577
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: toowobb dot com and I am nadra to wob on

578
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: most social media platforms.

579
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: Beautiful. We'll be sure to include all of that in

580
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some

581
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: time with us today.

582
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: Nindra, You're welcome. Thank you.

583
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Ninjra was able to join us again

584
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: to share her expertise, To learn more about her and

585
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: her work, or to grab a copy of one of

586
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: her books. Visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls

587
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: dot Com slash Session three thirty five, and don't forget

588
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: to text two of your girls right now and encourage

589
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: them to check out the episode. If you're looking for

590
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory

591
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if

592
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: you want to continue to gin into this topic or

593
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: just be in community with other sisters, come on over

594
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy

595
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You

596
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.

597
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and

598
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all

599
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look

600
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

601
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: Take good care. What