1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,559
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

2
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's Friday night and it is special. In the

3
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:17,079
Speaker 2: last days, the US Attorney General Pam Bondi directs prosecutors

4
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,960
Speaker 2: to seek the death penalty for Luigi Mangioni. Bondi states

5
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,599
Speaker 2: Luigi Mangioni's murderer of Brian Thompson, an innocent man and

6
00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 2: father of two young children, was a premeditated, cold blooded

7
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,919
Speaker 2: assassination that shocked America. After careful consideration, I have directed

8
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,080
Speaker 2: federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty in this case

9
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,600
Speaker 2: and make America safe again.

10
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:44,240
Speaker 1: Wow.

11
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,199
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to

12
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I've got a pretty

13
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,400
Speaker 2: good idea why Bondi is directing federal prosecutors to seek

14
00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 2: the death penalty on Luigi mangione Growing up with a

15
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 2: silver spoon, no tea, silverspoons in his mouth, he guns

16
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 2: down a healthcare boss in broad daylight on the streets

17
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,840
Speaker 2: of Manhattan. Let me jog your memory.

18
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,320
Speaker 3: Earlier this morning, in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna

19
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 3: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old,

20
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,800
Speaker 3: mail on firearms charges at this time, he is believed

21
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 3: to be our person of interest.

22
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 2: From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western

23
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:39,360
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the

24
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,840
Speaker 2: health boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID

25
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,920
Speaker 2: in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and the New

26
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,080
Speaker 2: York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded

27
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,960
Speaker 2: execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a

28
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 2: silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what

29
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,279
Speaker 2: Elle was looking for in the case.

30
00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:08,720
Speaker 4: But is it him?

31
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 2: Does he match this description? According to a McDonald's employee,

32
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:13,919
Speaker 2: he does?

33
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 4: What else do we know?

34
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:15,919
Speaker 1: Where?

35
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 2: Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles

36
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 2: away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.

37
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 4: But the manhunt across the nation.

38
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 2: Going in every direction from Manhattan, divers, drones, you name it,

39
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 2: all used employed to find the killer of the health

40
00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:42,760
Speaker 2: care boss.

41
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 1: What led to the detainment of this guy?

42
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 2: We also understand that in his possession is a New

43
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 2: Jersey ID, a fake ID, possibly used to check into

44
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,400
Speaker 2: that Manhattan hostile press conference.

45
00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 4: Listen.

46
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,639
Speaker 5: A man was taken into custody today at ALTUDA Pennsylvania

47
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,519
Speaker 5: this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.

48
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 5: He's a mail twenty six years old. He was born

49
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 5: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to

50
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,080
Speaker 5: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.

51
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,239
Speaker 5: He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members

52
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,440
Speaker 5: of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania

53
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,560
Speaker 5: with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview

54
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 5: this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion

55
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,440
Speaker 5: based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including

56
00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 5: the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners at

57
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 5: the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,

58
00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 5: members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,

59
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 5: one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released

60
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 5: a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture

61
00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 5: was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive

62
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,720
Speaker 5: video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for

63
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 5: the public's health and identifying this subject, and the public responded.

64
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 5: Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each

65
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 5: tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional

66
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,000
Speaker 5: photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided

67
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 5: these photos to numerous media outlets. Local, national, and international

68
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,720
Speaker 5: outlets released the photo via television, print, social media, and

69
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 5: online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject

70
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 5: and called local law enforcement.

71
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 6: Members of the.

72
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 5: Altoona Police Department responded to the call and based on

73
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 5: their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still

74
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 5: active and ongoing. Thank you very much.

75
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:44,159
Speaker 7: I had a couple.

76
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 8: Questions about document that he was found in possession with.

77
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,840
Speaker 8: Can you go a little bit more in depth about

78
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,600
Speaker 8: those motivations that you mentioned. Was that CEO specifically named

79
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,880
Speaker 8: in that document? Was there anything more about in wanting

80
00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,120
Speaker 8: to go after others?

81
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 4: Also in that doctor?

82
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,120
Speaker 8: Was there any indication that explains us how the level

83
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,920
Speaker 8: of detail that he went into killing him, like, is.

84
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 5: There anything That document is currently in the possession of

85
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,599
Speaker 5: the Altoona Police Department as part of their investigation, but

86
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,280
Speaker 5: just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that

87
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 5: there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,

88
00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 5: but it does seem that he has some some ill

89
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 5: will toward corporate America.

90
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,160
Speaker 9: Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.

91
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 5: There's numerous lynchpins in this case. And the fact that

92
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 5: we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous

93
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 5: amount of video, and once again with your help and

94
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 5: the public SELP. So I couldn't. I really couldn't put

95
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,160
Speaker 5: it on one thing, but if I had to, it

96
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,240
Speaker 5: would be the release of that photograph from the media.

97
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 5: We had divers in the ward yesterday that came up

98
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 5: negative results the passport. We don't believe that he was

99
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,479
Speaker 5: planning on doing any traveling at this time. We don't

100
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,280
Speaker 5: think he at this point our investigation, we don't think

101
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:55,239
Speaker 5: he was trying to flee the country.

102
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,279
Speaker 4: Person at McDonald's where they buying, What were they doing.

103
00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,000
Speaker 10: At that exact comport?

104
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,720
Speaker 5: It was an employe at the McDonald's. But what was

105
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 5: the suspect, Dudes, he was sitting there reading neda from.

106
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 9: The New York Post.

107
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,200
Speaker 4: I was just hoping to get more details on the

108
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,720
Speaker 4: capture itself. Did he put up a fight? Did he

109
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 4: say through the cops? And we've also recorded that.

110
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 3: He published online anti health KA industry rantings can you share.

111
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,400
Speaker 8: With us some of the services that he posted.

112
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,640
Speaker 5: We're still working through his social media and we're going

113
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,560
Speaker 5: to do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,

114
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,320
Speaker 5: he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America,

115
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,400
Speaker 5: but that will all come out as part of our investigation.

116
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,599
Speaker 5: We're not done here. We're still going to be putting

117
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 5: this together. We're still going to be working very hard

118
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 5: to bring this to a successful conclusion.

119
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 2: A ghost gun, a silence sir, fake IDs, and a

120
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:47,360
Speaker 2: handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds.

121
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,160
Speaker 1: Like our guy. But what else led to this.

122
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 2: Detainment in Pennsylvania? Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us are

123
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 2: now psychoanalyst out of La, author of deal Breaker. You

124
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 2: can see her on Peacott and Doctor Bethany. The theory

125
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 2: that the assassin meant to scatter toy monopoly money.

126
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 4: Over the dead body.

127
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,560
Speaker 2: That tells me a lot about him. He's got a

128
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:17,600
Speaker 2: lot of time sitting in somebody's basement, thinking and plotting.

129
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,080
Speaker 4: It almost rules out a day job in my mind.

130
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 2: But that said, we know he's white male, we know

131
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,520
Speaker 2: he's got money and a guy that can fund himself

132
00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 2: cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan. We also

133
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 2: know that while he may have meant to scatter fake

134
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 2: monopoly money all over the dead body, sending a message

135
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,720
Speaker 2: as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that, he

136
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 2: didn't leave the money behind. But he did leave behind

137
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,200
Speaker 2: a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it. He

138
00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 2: left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left behind

139
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 2: a burner phone. If they can break into that burner

140
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 2: flow burner found that is going to be a tremendous

141
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:03,600
Speaker 2: source of evidence.

142
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 4: But he forgot to.

143
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,680
Speaker 9: Strow the money, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional.

144
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 9: In the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional,

145
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 9: meaning he has been thinking about this for a long

146
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 9: long time. When I have a patient like this come

147
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 9: into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at

148
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 9: one person and that is all they can talk about.

149
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 9: What they would like to do, what the person's look

150
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 9: on their face would be like, you know, Nancy, With

151
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 9: obsessional paranoia, the person the person sort of alleviates their

152
00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 9: rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.

153
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 9: But I also think although he obsessed about this and

154
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 9: planned it out. This was his first crime. He did

155
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 9: not he did not think about what it would be

156
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 9: like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle.

157
00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,080
Speaker 9: He didn't have time to plan them. He didn't have

158
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 9: time to scatter the monopoly money.

159
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 1: This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.

160
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,960
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this

161
00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,920
Speaker 2: area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner,

162
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 2: the cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance it's

163
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 2: his actual cell phone. But the reports we're hearing is

164
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 2: it's a burner phone. Lauren Conlin, Yes, no burner phone,

165
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,000
Speaker 2: actual phone.

166
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,680
Speaker 11: Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith.

167
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,440
Speaker 1: What I'm coming to you about is the phone? What

168
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 1: an idiot? I think. Bethany's right.

169
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 2: This may be his first time at the rodeo, and

170
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 2: you know, like, well, let me.

171
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,440
Speaker 1: Think of a good one. Robert Blake remember when he

172
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 1: and his henchman got.

173
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:44,680
Speaker 2: His bodyguards, got together and murdered bonding Lee Bakley, And.

174
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 1: They had this extensive to do list.

175
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 2: Very often you can catch the purp because of their

176
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 2: to do list and they're over planning, right, But the

177
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 2: burner phone, they're really hard to break into. Do you

178
00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 2: remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial. They had to bring

179
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 2: in the secret Service to crack his phone.

180
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 12: Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone

181
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,720
Speaker 12: and who knows what's on there. Yeah, he could just

182
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 12: use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it

183
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 12: out and knows Berner Phones and what to use him for.

184
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,320
Speaker 12: There may not be a lot on there, but the

185
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 12: ability to break in there might not be that difficult

186
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,720
Speaker 12: because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and Giugi

187
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,719
Speaker 12: are and the limited amount of information that'll be on.

188
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 2: There, all the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've

189
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 2: got so far. Talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,

190
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,080
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm going to follow up

191
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 2: with renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.

192
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: Dr Bethnany, He's not worried. Look at him. He has

193
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,800
Speaker 1: practiced this over and over and over.

194
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 2: He has been watching the victim like a hawk from

195
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,080
Speaker 2: the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows

196
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,000
Speaker 2: the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,

197
00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 2: he knew that.

198
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 1: That started at eight o'clock.

199
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,680
Speaker 2: He knew that the victim was going over ahead of time.

200
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,880
Speaker 2: From the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he

201
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,319
Speaker 2: was set to speak that morning. Now, all of this

202
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:18,680
Speaker 2: surveillance video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.

203
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: Check it out.

204
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,040
Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold, cool,

205
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:25,960
Speaker 2: and calculated.

206
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,200
Speaker 9: This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the

207
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,040
Speaker 9: panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.

208
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 9: He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,

209
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,240
Speaker 9: he would have known that there were surveillance cameras all

210
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 9: along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call. That

211
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 9: makes me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper

212
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,320
Speaker 9: where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,

213
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 9: or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and

214
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:54,600
Speaker 9: that's why he's on that phone.

215
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 2: Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifty minutes before the shooting,

216
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,600
Speaker 2: not a fifteen minute phone call.

217
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:02,079
Speaker 1: Correct.

218
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,079
Speaker 11: Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.

219
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 2: So, Doctor Bethany, But I agree with what you were saying,

220
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 2: But he did not yact for fifteen minutes. It's almost

221
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,720
Speaker 2: as if he's checking in. Because I'm wondering is he

222
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 2: speaking or is he listening? I can't tell plus his

223
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 2: mouth is covered right there, and I'll tell you why

224
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 2: Jason Ocean is joining me Renow defense attorney joining us

225
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,120
Speaker 2: out of this jurisdiction.

226
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,479
Speaker 4: Who also, you and I have walked this track before.

227
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:34,000
Speaker 1: Together at Jason Ocean. So back around court, TV and

228
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 1: HLN days.

229
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,959
Speaker 2: Jason absolutely the reason I'm wondering if he was listening

230
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,280
Speaker 2: to something and not talking.

231
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,679
Speaker 1: I prosecuted an arson murder, and just before.

232
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 2: The guy brined his mansion down and tried to fake

233
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,439
Speaker 2: that his wife died in the fire from smoking elation.

234
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 1: He called and checked the weather channel.

235
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 2: Jason, I was so happy he called and checked the

236
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 2: weather channel to find out if it was going to

237
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,320
Speaker 2: rain the day he was setting the house on fire.

238
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,000
Speaker 1: So for all I know.

239
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,959
Speaker 2: This guy's checking the bus schedule or checking was And

240
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,559
Speaker 2: now I know he was not on a flight.

241
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:14,720
Speaker 1: I know he was on a bus.

242
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 2: But every time I'm headed to Legardia, I call or

243
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 2: I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,

244
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,680
Speaker 2: how do I know if he was just checking something

245
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 2: or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,

246
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 2: what if he called someone it was a quick callment,

247
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 2: Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking. I

248
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,079
Speaker 2: just passed Starbucks. It could be that it could be anything.

249
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,160
Speaker 13: Anti I think the theory that, you know, the potential

250
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 13: theory that he was directed by someone and that's why

251
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 13: he was on the phone is fascinating.

252
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:47,839
Speaker 12: And then also.

253
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,480
Speaker 13: Struck by that his lack of knowledge, you know, the

254
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,079
Speaker 13: overall aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think

255
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,080
Speaker 13: he didn't plan for that. That was the one thing

256
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,200
Speaker 13: in this seemingly meticulous plan that was that was not done.

257
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,480
Speaker 13: But that phone call could be very critical if we

258
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,480
Speaker 13: can find out if it was an incoming or an

259
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 13: outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the

260
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 13: ability to bust that phone up.

261
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 2: I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually

262
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,880
Speaker 2: cracks it. You'd think it would be easy, because.

263
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert.

264
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,200
Speaker 2: When I was researching for my last book, Don't Be

265
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 2: a Victim, I found out that about I think it

266
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 2: was seventy percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number

267
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 2: of people still use the factory code that they had

268
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 2: on answer machines, or they do one two three four

269
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,800
Speaker 2: is their code or one one one one, or of course,

270
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 2: sixty nine, sixty nine, that's now tried and true, or

271
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,920
Speaker 2: let's see lucky numbers that they come up with, like

272
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,320
Speaker 2: seven seven seven seven.

273
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 4: It's so predictable.

274
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,760
Speaker 2: But then you got somebody like this who's uh half smart,

275
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 2: and he's probably got some bizarre code on his cellphone

276
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 2: the burner. You know how long it took them to

277
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,360
Speaker 2: crack Alex Murdock's final They had to bring in the

278
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:12,440
Speaker 2: secret Service to do.

279
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 14: It, exactly. Mean, if you look, that phone call could

280
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 14: have been something as simple as he called him sick

281
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 14: to work because he knew he wouldn't gonna make it.

282
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 14: Who you can call it? Six forty five am is

283
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 14: a very small group of people, So it could have

284
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 14: been he's checking the bus schedule because he's believing that

285
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,680
Speaker 14: morning and wants to make sure that's smart.

286
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:31,560
Speaker 1: It's smart smart.

287
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 2: Wait, you just really gave me clue, Cheryl, who are

288
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 2: you going to call at six o'clock.

289
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 1: In the morning? Okay?

290
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 4: Not very many people?

291
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 14: Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or

292
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 14: a sister or something like that, you're going to scare

293
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,840
Speaker 14: the day like that of them. So it's got to

294
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 14: be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message

295
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,600
Speaker 14: for somebody because you know they're not at work at

296
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 14: you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested

297
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 14: in that as I am his other messages. What he

298
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,720
Speaker 14: wrote on the shellcasing, the threat before the murder, the

299
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 14: fact that he would choose New York and not the victim,

300
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 14: poem state, why not shoot him at any red light

301
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 14: going to work?

302
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 2: Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,

303
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 2: I want to tell everybody. At first we were led

304
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:24,160
Speaker 2: to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.

305
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 1: Deny defend deposed.

306
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 2: We now know it was written with black sharp which

307
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 2: tells me even more. Do you know that you can

308
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,160
Speaker 2: get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I

309
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 2: think police are going to need a handwriting sample when

310
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,160
Speaker 2: they've got fingerprints in DNA, but you never know what

311
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 2: might click with the jury.

312
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 1: What about it? Cheryl?

313
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,280
Speaker 14: One hundred percent? But again, it tells you he took

314
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,280
Speaker 14: extra time to leave a message on shellcasings. He took

315
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 14: extra time to get the monopoly money. That's a message.

316
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 14: Shooting him in New York City the morning of that

317
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,560
Speaker 14: meeting was a message he could have shot him anytime

318
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,399
Speaker 14: in his home stated a red light, but he didn't.

319
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 14: This is somebody that was a laser focus about his

320
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 14: intended target and his motive.

321
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 1: Period crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

322
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 2: The US Attorney General directs federal prosecutors to seek the

323
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,480
Speaker 2: death penalty for Luigi MANGIONI.

324
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 1: You want to know why, I'll tell you why.

325
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,360
Speaker 3: The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by

326
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,360
Speaker 3: an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned

327
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 3: the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple

328
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,959
Speaker 3: fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.

329
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,160
Speaker 2: First, I want to go out to our dive expert.

330
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,439
Speaker 2: I'm curious about the in the lake at Central Park.

331
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,880
Speaker 7: The New York Police Department dive team is called into

332
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 7: action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.

333
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 7: The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind

334
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 7: an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,

335
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 7: in a body of water known as the Lake near

336
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 7: Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central

337
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,400
Speaker 7: Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee

338
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,000
Speaker 7: bike into the park. Police have not yet recovered the

339
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,640
Speaker 7: distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear if

340
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 7: officers recovered any evidence from the water.

341
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 2: Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,

342
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 2: also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.

343
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 2: He is an expert diver and he is actually a

344
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,680
Speaker 2: dive instructor.

345
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 1: Well.

346
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 10: I do a lot of police diving also and just

347
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,679
Speaker 10: into emergency diving, and so I'm looking at this on

348
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 10: Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that

349
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 10: makes it a lot easier than having to go into

350
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,960
Speaker 10: the ocean or a great lake or the chestbea bay,

351
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 10: so it makes it a little easier for the divers.

352
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 10: It's also I just looked it up it's only four

353
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 10: to six feet deep, so that also makes a lot

354
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 10: more simple to do a dive operation. But what they

355
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 10: could be doing is they're goulda be looking for anything

356
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 10: that they can find. And one thing that your listeners

357
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 10: and watchers need to understand is anything that exists above

358
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 10: water exists underwater. People use it as a garbage dump.

359
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 10: We find you name it, bikes, washing machines, shopping carts.

360
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 10: So there's a lot of debris. The more people that

361
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 10: are around, the more people use that as a dumping ground.

362
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,439
Speaker 10: But there's two things that I imagine they're looking for

363
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 10: just listening to the different news reports and listening to you.

364
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 10: They're looking for the firearm, obviously, but that telephone also,

365
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 10: they're looking for that. You know, those are both very

366
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 10: small items that are relatively easy to discard, and one

367
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 10: of the things that if you find an item like that,

368
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 10: you're gonna have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the

369
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 10: same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective,

370
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 10: But the one thing we have to keep in mind

371
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 10: is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water

372
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 10: is in air, so they all I can do is

373
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,719
Speaker 10: keep it in the air that's recovered underwater, you have

374
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 10: to recover it with the water. If you take it

375
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 10: out of the water, things start to break down relatively quickly.

376
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 10: What I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints if you take

377
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 10: something out of the water, and fingerprints can last for

378
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 10: about a week underwater, so the clock is ticking. But

379
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 10: if you remove whether it's a firearm or the telephone

380
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 10: or any piece of evidence, you're going to want to

381
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 10: take it out of the water and just bring some

382
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 10: of the local water with it and then bring that

383
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 10: to your forensics office and then they're going to drain

384
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 10: the water and then do all the magic that they

385
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 10: do to get the fingerprints off of it.

386
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 4: Okay, Ben Dobwin is joining me.

387
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 2: Not only Dane Professional Services at Virginia Westlingyan, he is

388
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: a dive instructor and a police diver. Now, Ben, you

389
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 2: just taught me something I didn't know. Number One, when

390
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 2: items are taken out of the water, you have to

391
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: preserve them in preferably the abbiant water, the water in

392
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 2: which they were in, because the moment they get the

393
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 2: it starts to degrade.

394
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: For instance, fingerprints.

395
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

396
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a

397
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 2: hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted

398
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 2: to talk to you about the gun, but I want

399
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: to follow up on what.

400
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 1: Dobrain is telling us.

401
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,959
Speaker 2: Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based

402
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 2: on the oil in the body oil water.

403
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: Get it. You can explain better than me.

404
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result

405
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 6: of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have

406
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 6: in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember,

407
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 6: we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers.

408
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 6: We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in

409
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 6: this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon

410
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 6: that has a magazine and nancy. So if you have

411
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 6: a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing

412
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 6: down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,

413
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 6: and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The

414
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 6: magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of

415
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 6: this weapon and it's kind of in a protected space there.

416
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 6: So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.

417
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 6: You have this protected space. If you can keep this

418
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 6: in the water that it comes from and take that

419
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 6: into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty

420
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 6: quickly and raise any kind of latent prints that might

421
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 6: be there.

422
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have

423
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.

424
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm saying here.

425
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 6: That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about

426
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 6: you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated and all

427
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 6: of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated this area,

428
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 6: this guy and pay very close than you what I'm

429
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 6: about to say. This guy, if he did this, he

430
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 6: ain't the first person to think about dumping a weapon

431
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 6: into that lake, all right. So they have a herculean

432
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 6: task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this filthy

433
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 6: water where they're going to be using their hands, crawling along.

434
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 6: How many other weapons are in there? Just because you

435
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 6: find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's the firearm that

436
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 6: was used.

437
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: Ben, I want to follow up with you on this

438
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 2: is a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when

439
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 2: we come back. But this guy did so much planning then,

440
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 2: But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this

441
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's

442
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: twenty acres, I guarantee you he didn't know that it

443
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 2: was just four.

444
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 4: To six feet deep.

445
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 10: And I just found that Google And if you go

446
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 10: a little bit further north, it looks like there's the

447
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 10: reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep. So

448
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 10: that is significantly I mean, it's obviously you can dive that.

449
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 10: It just takes a little bit longer to get down

450
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 10: and get up. But four to six feet is super easy.

451
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 10: If they find something, they can just pop their head

452
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 10: out of the water and look at it. And the

453
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 10: what he just said is we've done training dives in

454
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 10: local lakes where we have found multiple guns when we

455
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 10: weren't looking for I mean, we're just doing a training

456
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 10: dive and we found guns. I found a flint lock pistol.

457
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 10: I wasn't looking for one time, because you know, in

458
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 10: a populated era of people think, oh, if I discard

459
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 10: a firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,

460
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 10: you know it's hard to see, but if people are

461
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 10: looking for it, they're gonna find it.

462
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 12: You know.

463
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 10: The New York City Police dive team is one of

464
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 10: the most respected in the world. If it's in that

465
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 10: little area there, they're going to find something.

466
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray. Also in the last days,

467
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: lawyers for Luigimnngioni claim prosecutors illegally obtained his medical records.

468
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: Mangoni's defense team is demanding an evidentiary hearing in the matter,

469
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 2: claiming prosecutors compelled ETNA to hand over Mangioni's medical record,

470
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 2: including different diagnoses and specific medical complaints. And they also

471
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: claim an assistant DA reviewed some of the files the

472
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 2: Manhattan District Attorney's offices. It requested very limited info from ETNA,

473
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 2: but the company sent over much more additional materials in error,

474
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: which means it wasn't the District Attorney's fault. Wow, they're

475
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: really splitting hairs now. I wonder if these medical records

476
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: can destroy Mangione's defense. Maybe something to do with a

477
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 2: bad back or lack thereof. What do we know about

478
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: the Mangione case? Apt in western Pennsylvania in the Altoona

479
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 2: area at a local McDonald's. He has now been arrested

480
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 2: on charges relating to a gun, sources telling us it

481
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: was a so called ghost gun, a gun that has

482
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: no serial number that is often put together with a kit.

483
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: The parts of the gun purchased or obtained separately, a

484
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 2: ghost gun and a silencer, along with a hand written

485
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.

486
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: Wow.

487
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective

488
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast.

489
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: Tom again, thank you for being with us. We've learned

490
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like

491
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We

492
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: are now understanding that is not made silence, sir, that

493
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: this is a weapon that is often used by veterinarians

494
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 2: to put down that's nice word for it, animals.

495
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 4: The magazine is in the grip. And when many people

496
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 4: thought that.

497
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: It was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,

498
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 2: which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we

499
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: now know it may be a bolt action that has

500
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: to be manually cycled after each shot.

501
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: That changes things.

502
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 12: Tom Smith, Yes, it does because now he knows he's

503
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 12: proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it,

504
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 12: he's going to have to chamber around. And if I

505
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 12: could show you real quick, this is a glock, not

506
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 12: the same weapon that was used, but but similar functioning.

507
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 12: Every time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click

508
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 12: it like this in order to chamber around to fire

509
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 12: the next round. And the thing about him is he

510
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 12: knows the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not

511
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 12: a surprise to him. So he fires around, has to

512
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 12: clear it, fire another round, clear to chamber around each time,

513
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 12: and he knows the weapon and he knows that he's

514
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 12: coming and has to do that, and that's why he

515
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 12: stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever dealt

516
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 12: with in New York City, what's a weapons jams, they

517
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 12: throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how this

518
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 12: weapon is being used.

519
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,

520
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: because in the movies you always see the person jam

521
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: the weapon and they just throw it or they throw

522
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 2: it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you

523
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I

524
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a

525
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: gun range.

526
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon, because,

527
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 12: like I said, there's a big difference when you're viewing

528
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 12: this whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.

529
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 12: He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.

530
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 12: You know.

531
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: I want you to explain one more time for novices

532
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: out there about the bolt action. We now don't believe

533
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it was a

534
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: bolt action that has to be manually recycled after every shot.

535
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: Could you explain that and demonstrate one more time, please, Tom.

536
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine

537
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 12: port is in here. Just like you mentioned, it's at

538
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 12: the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,

539
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 12: he has to manually clear that round to chamber another

540
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 12: round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again

541
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 12: and do the same thing over and over again. So,

542
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 12: like I said, he's very aware of how that gun

543
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 12: he's used and what he used to do to fire.

544
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to

545
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: bring everybody back in in just a second, But Tom,

546
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used

547
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: by veterinarians to put down animals is it has a

548
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: very quiet shot, very quiet it shot. And the gun

549
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: we're talking about has a long as we saw, could

550
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: you hold yours up again as a very long barrel

551
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: like that? This one even seemed a little bit longer

552
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: than yours. And that can be confused because it looks

553
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: like a silencer, but it's not.

554
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 12: It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you

555
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 12: have more of an angle of your target in front

556
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 12: of you. So, like I said, he is very aware

557
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 12: of how this weapon is used and what it needs

558
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 12: to do to fight.

559
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: Is this gun is a specialized gun. This guy practiced

560
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: and practiced, and he had everything planned out.

561
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 4: You know, he practiced with the murder weapon.

562
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a

563
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: gun and then use.

564
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: It the next day.

565
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: That did not happen. Think of the mindset here. This

566
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: is a gun he brought with him on a bus.

567
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: Didn't got on a plane because he couldn't get through

568
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: Tsa with a gun.

569
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: For Pea and.

570
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: The airlines know who you are, they have your picture,

571
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: they have you every three feet in the airport.

572
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: He didn't want that.

573
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 4: He wanted to travel with his gun.

574
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: What criminal that's.

575
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 2: Practiced and practiced and planned and plan was to use

576
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: an aligen gun.

577
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 12: Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using

578
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 12: a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,

579
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 12: it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month

580
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 12: or a year. This we have no idea whether there's

581
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 12: any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings

582
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 12: on it. So it could be very benign in the

583
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 12: in identifying it. And that's why he paid.

584
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy

585
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: did not just go into a gun shop and buy

586
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: the gun just before the murder. If he planned this

587
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,

588
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: staking out the scene the moment he got there November

589
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: twenty four to ten pm.

590
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: He didn't go to bed. He went to this look

591
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: where the forum was going to be held. He didn't

592
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 4: buy a new gun.

593
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't think.

594
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after

595
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: practicing for hours on end.

596
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 9: This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,

597
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 9: He has disposable money, and he had access to a

598
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 9: weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who

599
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 9: goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and

600
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 9: tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.

601
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 9: This is a man who knows this weapon. This is

602
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 9: also a man who has researched where this CEO is

603
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 9: going to be.

604
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 15: Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to

605
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 15: a silencer being used or a modern version of a

606
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 15: rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking

607
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 15: into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold

608
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 15: the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now

609
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 15: Chief Detective Joseph Kenney says they are looking into the

610
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 15: use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.

611
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 15: Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and

612
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 15: ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The

613
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 15: animal can be shot with this type of weapon that

614
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 15: doesn't cause a large noise.

615
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun

616
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: charges apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,

617
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.

618
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 4: Is not just this moment.

619
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement

620
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: man hours like this.

621
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 16: Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on

622
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 16: a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled

623
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 16: south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a

624
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 16: statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom

625
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 16: arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching

626
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 16: through video from the bus station in town and to

627
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 16: others along the route to New York City. Officers are

628
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 16: working to find a name from tickets purchased for a

629
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 16: November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.

630
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: He noticed, the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,

631
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.

632
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 4: Let me just say that.

633
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: The security and verification procedures at the bus station a

634
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He

635
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten

636
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he

637
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,

638
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: just like he used a fake ID when he checked

639
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,

640
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: Lauren Conlin joining the investigative reporter and star a primetime

641
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting

642
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: with the receptionist.

643
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 4: That's not what happened.

644
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: We now know that to check into that hostel, and

645
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're doing it.

646
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 2: Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need

647
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 2: some ID, look at them. The next time they ask

648
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 2: you that, they look back up at your face, right. So, yeah,

649
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: there was a little flirtation. You can see him smiling

650
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia

651
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: on that mouth right there. But that's another can of worms, Lauren.

652
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: So I don't know that the clerk was flirting with him.

653
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: She very well may have said, pulled down your mask.

654
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: I got to make an id. I mean this is

655
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: not the rints, okay, right.

656
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: Right, And you're correct, Nancy.

657
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 11: I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,

658
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 11: not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were

659
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 11: multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were

660
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 11: cameras outside of the hostel as well, So my understanding

661
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 11: is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,

662
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 11: of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.

663
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 11: I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside

664
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 11: to a dunkin Donuts and they informed me that they

665
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 11: do any sort of talking about what they know to

666
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 11: anyone but the NYPD, but also that they turned over

667
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 11: footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is going

668
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 11: through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,

669
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 11: it's gonna take some time. This is not going to

670
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 11: happen overnight, but I think there's going to be a

671
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 11: lot more and stills being released of this guy and

672
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 11: what he did during his time in New York before

673
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 11: the shooting.

674
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.

675
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: Who is he? Based on everything we know right.

676
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 14: Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's

677
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 14: not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at

678
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 14: the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing

679
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 14: I would have asked her is does he have an accent?

680
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 14: And that's why I think again, they are focused on Atlanta.

681
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 14: They know where the bus originated, they know what he

682
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 14: sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.

683
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 14: The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,

684
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 14: which means three possible shawecasing, So that gun either jam

685
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 14: and we have an unspent or we have three spent,

686
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 14: which means he missed one.

687
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and

688
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.

689
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this

690
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: detainment in Pennsylvania?

691
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst. Way in,

692
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?

693
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: Who is he?

694
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 9: Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He

695
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 9: knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because

696
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 9: he's sending a message. If he did it at a

697
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 9: traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not

698
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 9: send the message, the scribbling on the ammunition. He caught

699
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 9: that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing

700
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 9: words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims.

701
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 9: I am going to guess that he had a family

702
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,959
Speaker 9: member who has denied care and because of that denied care,

703
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 9: the family member died and he cannot get over it.

704
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 9: So this is although he looks like a street thug

705
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 9: on you know, at first glance, he is not.

706
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,

707
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can

708
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,

709
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: like his fingerprints and DNA.

710
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 6: Joe Scott, Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.

711
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 6: And here's one other thing. I did a little digging

712
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 6: one of this this weapon that they keep referring to,

713
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 6: that's the veterinarian euthanasia weapon they believe might be a

714
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 6: what's referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My

715
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 6: research revealed that there are essentially, I think either four

716
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 6: or five locations in the metro area where these can

717
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 6: be specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe

718
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 6: that that's what this is and that he transported it.

719
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 6: I think you're on the money here relative to getting

720
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 6: on a bus with this thing. He may have picked

721
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 6: it up down there at some point in time. And

722
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 6: it's not a very efficient weapon for doing the task

723
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 6: that he was trying to do, so I don't know,

724
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 6: maybe he was trying to you know, he's not going

725
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 6: to draw attention to himself, like when you buy a

726
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 6: suppressor separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very

727
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 6: efficient because you have to you lose your site picture

728
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 6: every time you have to rotate that bolt on the

729
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 6: back of that weapon, which is what he's doing. He's

730
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 6: spending it. I think that many of the answers that

731
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 6: we're looking for are probably going to rest as well.

732
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 6: And this is something that we will hear a lot about,

733
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 6: I believe. With United Healthcare and their chief security officer,

734
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 6: who was actually hired back in August of twenty twenty three,

735
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 6: I want to know what she knows. I want to

736
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 6: know what her assets know within that business. Are there

737
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 6: letters that have been written, are their lawsuits that have

738
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 6: been filed relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare

739
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 6: claims that may have been blown off or maybe they

740
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 6: didn't receive what they wanted. But trust me, the security

741
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 6: apparatus within that company is going to be working.

742
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: On and of course along with tot Mom Casey Anthony

743
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: called Mam Laurie Valo. Now Luigi Mangioni has his own

744
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 2: documentary called Who Is Luigi Mangioni? Do I care who

745
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: he is? What I care about is did he gun

746
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 2: down an unarmed man in broad daylight?

747
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: That's what I care about.

748
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: According to the ad for HBO Max Luigimi Andngoni's Success

749
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: Driven Life? What success driven life? He was bumming on

750
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: the Hawaii beaches? Okay, Luigi Minjioni's success driven life? I

751
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: don't believe that takes a radical detour amid accusations of

752
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: killing an insurance CEO. Now his secretive world snaps into focus.

753
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 2: I don't give a flying fig about his secretive world.

754
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: What I care about is Canadas State prove murder because

755
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: now the fans are seeking the death penalty.

756
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: We wait as justice. I'm false.

757
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 2: Goodbye,